Not that there is actually any correlation between the AWC discussion, & the fact that multiple townies gave up & lynched themselves in that game. . . unless I've missed something.
Not that there is actually any correlation between the AWC discussion, & the fact that multiple townies gave up & lynched themselves in that game. . . unless I've missed something.
I'm not sure where I was going with that tanget. I remembered your post here:
I don't know what a AWC is, and would also appreciate a link or linked quote to the discussion, as I can't seem to find it.
ria's mind set? I'm having trouble answering this because I want to reply "overly cautious" or "careful to not attract attention to himself" but I'm guessing that's not the answer you are looking for. It just feels like he is purposely giving very little for anyone to analyze while he posts little things to make him look town. And those things aren't helping the town much. It's scummy.
His third post feels unnecessarily defensive, as I mentioned before, which could indicate nervousness.
I could try to answer this question better but I'm not sure what words you are looking for. "Cautious" seemed like a good one to me.
AWC = Alternate Win Condition. I will try and locate the postings. My work computer is a POS and I might have difficulties becasue of it. If someone else could post the link for now I would appreicate it. If not, then I'm off work at 12:00am PST and will be able to access it better then.
By mind set I mean getting into a players head and finding out their motivations. I'm not asking you to be psychic, but there are ways to figure out a players mind set.
Well, I already did that, no? I said that I think rianalnn was making those little non-helpful posts to appear town when he isn't.
I also believe he was trying to avoid attracting attention to himself by not providing votes or content for anyone to analyze.
That was the motivation for his posts. His motivation for doing that was because he doesn't want to get caught as scum and thus get lynched.
Does that answer your question or...?
The case you have against R: Is it impossile for town not to act this way?
No, it is not impossible for town to act the way rianalnn did.
I'm always light-on Day 1, it takes me a while to warm up, & this game is only just getting going anyway.
I don't have reads on people. I haven't even started taking notes.
So far I saw a little RVS stuff, then some focus on you for playing like how I remember you playing in the Mod Mafias, although that is a vague recollection at best. ib expressed some trust in ZDS which I thought was odd, Void sidetracked a discussion about my second post by apparently misremembering the content despite you linking it (which actually fits in with the sort of play I saw in the game we were just in, so w/e).
That was the motivation for his posts. His motivation for doing that was because he doesn't want to get caught as scum and thus get lynched.
Does that answer your question or...?
Just becasue you claim the motivation to be one thing doesn't mean that is the motivation for the post. As I said previously, show the work you did that helped draw your conclusion.
Void sidetracked a discussion about my second post by apparently misremembering the content despite you linking it (which actually fits in with the sort of play I saw in the game we were just in, so w/e).
I have a bad habit of thinking that I remembering something correctly when in fact I am not.
I need to get better at double checking my work like a math class.
That was the motivation for his posts. His motivation for doing that was because he doesn't want to get caught as scum and thus get lynched.
Does that answer your question or...?
Just becasue you claim the motivation to be one thing doesn't mean that is the motivation for the post. As I said previously, show the work you did that helped draw your conclusion.
You mean like make a post that analyzes ria's posts and give my thoughts on them? Because I feel like I already did that.
Can I just request now that no townie succumb to the pit of despair & self-lynch?
CCMVI had two townies hang themselves, that's just useless. Preserve the wagon information! Don't dilute it with poor play.
being about AWC's, not the self-lynching of townies.
So now that you realize what it really says do you still think it is a null-tell? Rather, have your thoughts on it changed?
It's still a null tell for me. Either alignment would consider making that post. Its the reason why R is making the post that we need to figure out.
How would you go about doing that?
I see two* plausible reasons:
1) ria is town that is frustrated from the last game he played and carries it over to this game
2) ria is scum and is concerned about appearing town
I feel like #2 is more likely.
*I would put a third option that says "ria is town that is legitimately concerned that a townie will commit suicide" but I don't consider that reason plausible.
---
@rianalnn: I hope you don't expect me to unvote you when I ask you for content and all I get back is "i haven't warmed up yet" and a summary of what you have already done this game. Please go back to the beginning, read up, take notes, form reads, and post them.
@rianalnn: I hope you don't expect me to unvote you when I ask you for content and all I get back is "i haven't warmed up yet" and a summary of what you have already done this game. Please go back to the beginning, read up, take notes, form reads, and post them.
Also, this post has been edited, which is one of the top 3 no-no's in Mafia. He added the bit after "here's a grip."
Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
Prophylaxis is the mod (I'm just the peppy mascot/co-mod), so the decision on what to do is up to him, but as a reminder in the meanwhile:
Read the first post. It links to the rules, which include the following line: "7. As always, no-one except the moderator of the thread must not edit/delete your posts, no matter what. Doing so will get you modkilled. Even if it's to correct a typo."
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
This directly contradicts his entire case on Ria that HE presented and voted on. You can't have it both ways.
This is not to say though that they are scum buddies. I can see a perspective where a scum GM COULD go and buddy up to a town and likely to mess up Tom in order to not only get an early ally, but to possibly use as a set up for a mislynch later on should Tom not mess up ("He's not playing to his meta, he must be getting fed responses.")
I'll get to reading other responses to me in a few. Just got home and this is the first post I saw.
*@Tom -> Just because something strikes you as odd doesn't mean it's a tell. Before you ask yourself (for example) "did Rianalnn tell people not to hang themselves because he's town, or because he's scum?", first you must ask yourself "is there a relation between this post of Rianalnn and his alignment?" (hint: if your answer to this question is yes and the answer to the other question is "he could be town or he could be scum", then the answer is actually no).
What if you get the feeling that the post is more likely to be associated with one alignment than the other? That counts for nothing?
@ZDS: Do not misrep me. I was not tunneling on Dan, I wanted to look at him as scum because of his responses, so I did. As a result, his responses read as evasive rather than jokey.
Infectiousbaloth & Tom, you've both missed questions directed at you; kindly review & respond.
Sure, I'll review the whole thread and look for questions I missed, as soon as you review the whole thread and provide the content I requested.
While you're at it, could you please name some on-site mafia games you played in from the beginning? Something like 3 or 4 town games and 3 or 4 scum games would be good.
About Tom:
I was mostly talking about him because he is the only person other than Mirror Entity I've ever interacted with before (in mafia) and I'm trying to get a hold on something in an unfamiliar meta. All I really wanted to share about him is that it will be hard for me to vote him since he has gotten himself mislynched so much. I find Tanarin's suggestion that I am setting it up so Tom gets lynched if he plays well laughable, given how much suspicion Tom has gotten already.
About Zenjo:
Still don't think he is contributing much, but he's far from the only one.
About infectiousbaloth:
Agree that his claim to have tunnel vision during RVS was weird. Do not think it's enough to vote him yet, but he's one of my top suspect.
About arbitraryarmor:
Terribly explained vote and post edit were bad, but I get this is pretty much his first game. Put some more thought into your vote and explain why you think Tom "has no spine," I actually think he's pretty consistent.
About Tanarin:
In signups you claimed "I like to get on a wagon only when I am comfortable with my reads." So you are set in reading me scum based mainly on the fact that I pointed out the low content of Zenjo's post?
About mass-claiming avatars:
I don't really know what avatars would look scummy enough that someone would want to false claim an avatar name, so I guess this is ok, but my role is crazy enough that I don't think knowing people's avatars would really give us much information. This looks more to me like another case of ria trying to appear town without doing any scumhunting.
While you're at it, could you please name some on-site mafia games you played in from the beginning? Something like 3 or 4 town games and 3 or 4 scum games would be good.
You made such an effort to see who was in this game that suicided in CCMIV, clearly it is worth my while providing you with more homework
I'm not going to review less than three pages – I will tell you right now that I will glean no more from it than I already have. I *always* do hard re-reads as the game progresses, there is no reason for me to rehash what I've *just* seen. It doesn't help me, it's not how I play the game effectively.
What I need is more from the guys with next to no posts to post more, because seeing their same no-content/low-content/dicking around to be funny posts isn't going to provide me any insight. I'm not some mafia powerhouse, my strengths in this game lie in tenacity & willingness to go back over a 1000 post thread to gather behavioural tells.
Quit trying to boss me around while wearing clown shoes.
Quit trying to boss me around while wearing clown shoes.
The boss comment in your post is over exaggerated. Seriously, it's not like Tom is using a demanding tone here. He's requested twice from what I saw and even used the word "please" in one of them.
So, R, why are you saying that Tom is "bossing" you around?
His PBPA was a joke, he made no effort to look if there was a player overlap related to my "don't self-lynch" post even while deriding the comment, then he tried to blackmail me with an unreasonable demand, treating me like I'm ignoring the thread or otherwise not participating, when we're all of 150 posts into a game where a third of the players have less posts than the host.
His PBPA was a joke, he made no effort to look if there was a player overlap related to my "don't self-lynch" post even while deriding the comment, then he tried to blackmail me with an unreasonable demand, treating me like I'm ignoring the thread or otherwise not participating, when we're all of 150 posts into a game where a third of the players have less posts than the host.
Because Megiddo's avatar won't matter until Day 2. And, if anything, we'll have a better idea of whether a mass nameclaim will help the town or mafia more after Day 1 and Night 1 have passed. Like ZDS pointed out there's an inherent risk in the claim even if it can help the town better analyze and manage the game, so I'm against even considering it on Day 1 when that benefit doesn't even really exist now.
Vote Count ganderin_dan (1): Zenjo Gerrard's Mom (2): Tanarin, Tom infectiousbaloth (2): ganderin_dan, ZDS Tom (1): arbitraryarmor
Not Voting:
Gerrard's Mom, InfectiousBaloth, MirrorEntity, rianalnn, TMCT, Void
Errors? Let me know! Or bother Prophylaxis!
@dan: I think I already answered the question as to how to find my avatar (i.e., I'll be doing vote counts and I have the second post in the thread for easy look up). As for the announcement of triggers, that is a question for Prophylaxis, and I'll make sure he answers it/says he won't answer it next time he stops by.
MirrorEntity did not respond to his prod and therefore is being replaced.
As for the announcement of triggers, as soon as you meet your priority trigger, I will send you a PM saying that you have met it. I will not let you know what your trigger is, however.
I'm not sure where I was going with that tanget. I remembered your post here:
being about AWC's, not the self-lynching of townies.
I'm not concerned with what Void wants to hear. It just felt stupid to respond to this question (paraphrased):
"Cautious play can be a scum tell, but what is rianalnn's mind set that makes him scum?"
with this:
"Uh, cautious play."
That is why I included the bit that you quoted.
Well, I already did that, no? I said that I think rianalnn was making those little non-helpful posts to appear town when he isn't.
I also believe he was trying to avoid attracting attention to himself by not providing votes or content for anyone to analyze.
That was the motivation for his posts. His motivation for doing that was because he doesn't want to get caught as scum and thus get lynched.
Does that answer your question or...?
No, it is not impossible for town to act the way rianalnn did.
So now that you realize what it really says do you still think it is a null-tell? Rather, have your thoughts on it changed?
@rianalnn: Please provide some thoughts on the goings-on in this game. Share your reads on people.
I don't have reads on people. I haven't even started taking notes.
So far I saw a little RVS stuff, then some focus on you for playing like how I remember you playing in the Mod Mafias, although that is a vague recollection at best. ib expressed some trust in ZDS which I thought was odd, Void sidetracked a discussion about my second post by apparently misremembering the content despite you linking it (which actually fits in with the sort of play I saw in the game we were just in, so w/e).
Treat this like math class. Your required to show the work that helped you draw your conclusion.
Just becasue you claim the motivation to be one thing doesn't mean that is the motivation for the post. As I said previously, show the work you did that helped draw your conclusion.
You were rather quick to decide that R was scum for this despite knowing this information.
Have you played any games with R previously?
It's still a null tell for me. Either alignment would consider making that post. Its the reason why R is making the post that we need to figure out.
I have a bad habit of thinking that I remembering something correctly when in fact I am not.
I need to get better at double checking my work like a math class.
You mean like make a post that analyzes ria's posts and give my thoughts on them? Because I feel like I already did that.
Also, I hate math class.
When did I decide that ria was scum?
And no, I haven't played any games with ria before.
How would you go about doing that?
I see two* plausible reasons:
1) ria is town that is frustrated from the last game he played and carries it over to this game
2) ria is scum and is concerned about appearing town
I feel like #2 is more likely.
*I would put a third option that says "ria is town that is legitimately concerned that a townie will commit suicide" but I don't consider that reason plausible.
---
@rianalnn: I hope you don't expect me to unvote you when I ask you for content and all I get back is "i haven't warmed up yet" and a summary of what you have already done this game. Please go back to the beginning, read up, take notes, form reads, and post them.
Get a grip Tom.
I've got your back, Tom. Here's a grip.
Because you have no spine:
Vote: Tom
Tom's PBPA (lol, 4 posts) is trying far too hard, but I like his reactions to Tanarin. Tom's not behaving as he was in OFWGKTA.
Contribute.
Also, this post has been edited, which is one of the top 3 no-no's in Mafia. He added the bit after "here's a grip."
Prophylaxis is the mod (I'm just the peppy mascot/co-mod), so the decision on what to do is up to him, but as a reminder in the meanwhile:
Read the first post. It links to the rules, which include the following line: "7. As always, no-one except the moderator of the thread must not edit/delete your posts, no matter what. Doing so will get you modkilled. Even if it's to correct a typo."
This directly contradicts his entire case on Ria that HE presented and voted on. You can't have it both ways.
This is not to say though that they are scum buddies. I can see a perspective where a scum GM COULD go and buddy up to a town and likely to mess up Tom in order to not only get an early ally, but to possibly use as a set up for a mislynch later on should Tom not mess up ("He's not playing to his meta, he must be getting fed responses.")
I'll get to reading other responses to me in a few. Just got home and this is the first post I saw.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
But... I already own 4x Krosan Grips...
Also, RVS was over a little while ago.
What if you get the feeling that the post is more likely to be associated with one alignment than the other? That counts for nothing?
I wanted to see what people would say and who would say it.
And what advantage would waiting to see reactions have served over just saying it right out? Also, why would you be concerned about WHO would say it?
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
Tunnel vision at 126 posts?
Please explain how this minimal of posting can be considered Tunneling. Maybe this is a matter of opinions.
@ZDS: Do not misrep me. I was not tunneling on Dan, I wanted to look at him as scum because of his responses, so I did. As a result, his responses read as evasive rather than jokey.
huh? I just did.
I was thinking of a mass nameclaim...for Day 2. Why Day 1?
Infectiousbaloth & Tom, you've both missed questions directed at you; kindly review & respond.
Sure, I'll review the whole thread and look for questions I missed, as soon as you review the whole thread and provide the content I requested.
While you're at it, could you please name some on-site mafia games you played in from the beginning? Something like 3 or 4 town games and 3 or 4 scum games would be good.
About Tom:
I was mostly talking about him because he is the only person other than Mirror Entity I've ever interacted with before (in mafia) and I'm trying to get a hold on something in an unfamiliar meta. All I really wanted to share about him is that it will be hard for me to vote him since he has gotten himself mislynched so much. I find Tanarin's suggestion that I am setting it up so Tom gets lynched if he plays well laughable, given how much suspicion Tom has gotten already.
About Zenjo:
Still don't think he is contributing much, but he's far from the only one.
About infectiousbaloth:
Agree that his claim to have tunnel vision during RVS was weird. Do not think it's enough to vote him yet, but he's one of my top suspect.
About arbitraryarmor:
Terribly explained vote and post edit were bad, but I get this is pretty much his first game. Put some more thought into your vote and explain why you think Tom "has no spine," I actually think he's pretty consistent.
About Tanarin:
In signups you claimed "I like to get on a wagon only when I am comfortable with my reads." So you are set in reading me scum based mainly on the fact that I pointed out the low content of Zenjo's post?
About mass-claiming avatars:
I don't really know what avatars would look scummy enough that someone would want to false claim an avatar name, so I guess this is ok, but my role is crazy enough that I don't think knowing people's avatars would really give us much information. This looks more to me like another case of ria trying to appear town without doing any scumhunting.
I'd still like you to provide what I have asked for, though, ria.
I was town & played from Day 1 in
Cyan's Impossible Mafia
Annorax's Bastard Mod Mafia
Order of the Stick Mafia
Elegant Mafia
Clan Mafia
I have been scum on this site twice;
Mod Mafia 2 (apologies to those unable to view this)
View Askew Mafia
CCMVI
I made no such effort. What are you talking about?
And you still haven't given me the content I've been asking for. Please do that.
I'm not going to review less than three pages – I will tell you right now that I will glean no more from it than I already have. I *always* do hard re-reads as the game progresses, there is no reason for me to rehash what I've *just* seen. It doesn't help me, it's not how I play the game effectively.
What I need is more from the guys with next to no posts to post more, because seeing their same no-content/low-content/dicking around to be funny posts isn't going to provide me any insight. I'm not some mafia powerhouse, my strengths in this game lie in tenacity & willingness to go back over a 1000 post thread to gather behavioural tells.
Quit trying to boss me around while wearing clown shoes.
The boss comment in your post is over exaggerated. Seriously, it's not like Tom is using a demanding tone here. He's requested twice from what I saw and even used the word "please" in one of them.
So, R, why are you saying that Tom is "bossing" you around?
His PBPA was a joke, he made no effort to look if there was a player overlap related to my "don't self-lynch" post even while deriding the comment, then he tried to blackmail me with an unreasonable demand, treating me like I'm ignoring the thread or otherwise not participating, when we're all of 150 posts into a game where a third of the players have less posts than the host.
How do those things make you feel bossed?
Because Megiddo's avatar won't matter until Day 2. And, if anything, we'll have a better idea of whether a mass nameclaim will help the town or mafia more after Day 1 and Night 1 have passed. Like ZDS pointed out there's an inherent risk in the claim even if it can help the town better analyze and manage the game, so I'm against even considering it on Day 1 when that benefit doesn't even really exist now.
why?
Why?
I disagree.
Vote Count
ganderin_dan (1): Zenjo
Gerrard's Mom (2): Tanarin, Tom
infectiousbaloth (2): ganderin_dan, ZDS
Tom (1): arbitraryarmor
Not Voting:
Gerrard's Mom, InfectiousBaloth, MirrorEntity, rianalnn, TMCT, Void
Errors? Let me know! Or bother Prophylaxis!
@dan: I think I already answered the question as to how to find my avatar (i.e., I'll be doing vote counts and I have the second post in the thread for easy look up). As for the announcement of triggers, that is a question for Prophylaxis, and I'll make sure he answers it/says he won't answer it next time he stops by.
I guess I'm just bossy
You have 3 people voting for g_d but only 2 names are listed.
Thanks
As for the announcement of triggers, as soon as you meet your priority trigger, I will send you a PM saying that you have met it. I will not let you know what your trigger is, however.