Then its Zchinque or Xyre's turn to start up a mini (Phayt appears to have disappeared from mafiascum as well).
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
So, I have a basic game to be reviewed, and I'm almost completely done with a specialty, if someone would be willing to take at either of them.
Also, I'd like to sign up for a specialty slot, now that my setup's ready.
If the specialty is not up for FTQ status, I'd be happy to review it.
I'd also review the basic game.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
Ok, so I have a question about specialty games and players, etc. My game has slots available for 35 players. I realize that with the number of replacements that might be a problem, so I'm asking for permission to ignore the maximum number of games rule. I'm not up for a while, but I wanted to get my clearance asap.
Ok, so I have a question about specialty games and players, etc. My game has slots available for 35 players. I realize that with the number of replacements that might be a problem, so I'm asking for permission to ignore the maximum number of games rule. I'm not up for a while, but I wanted to get my clearance asap.
If your game is a normal, then i don't think you'll get permission for this. I think something like 28 is the limit for a non specialty.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Its a specialty (do I ever make non-specialty games?) lol. Also, I need someone who absolutely does NOT want to be in the game to review it for balance and FTQ worthiness please.
I don't speak for the council but my guess is that if they would waive the max-games-per-player limit, there would have to be a compelling reason to do so (like you're game is super-awesome and it just wouldn't be as awesome with less players).
Also, I can review the setup for you.
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Its a specialty (do I ever make non-specialty games?) lol. Also, I need someone who absolutely does NOT want to be in the game to review it for balance and FTQ worthiness please.
Yeah, not me. I love DM games that aren't god mafia.
* loran16 asks for the add kid role.
(No you dont get to live that down. Ever)
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Are you sure that's going to work out especially well? There comes a certain point where these things become so huge that analysis of all the various targets, and reaching a consensus, become nearly unmanageable. Fun for the mod, and novel, but daunting for the players.
I start to worry about that with games having over the 20 player mark. But in our 20+ player setups, the initial clumsiness our large games initially suffer from is usually offset by the relatively small period of time where that threshold number of players exists. A 75% increase in the player population means it may be 5-7 days before you get down to even a 20 player size, and another 3-5 days before the town is able to launch an end-game analysis.
The other issue is that the game of that size is likely to take a substantially longer time to complete, have unique balance issues, and tax the player-base. I remember playing in 7th Edition mafia about a million years ago, which had around 28 players, and the amount of posts and players we had to analyze was brutal and fairly unfun, even with a mass-claim that broke things open a fair bit. And back then, our games weren't nearly the size they've grown to, since.
I wouldn't be inclined to create an exemption to the game-limit rule because the rule exists to make sure we don't have player activity problems throughout the site. The one time I recall making an exception to that rule was in a case where it was fairly certain that activity problems wasn't going to be an issue. Here, where the burden of keeping up with 35 player's contributions is going to make the game exceedingly difficult to keep up with, I think the purpose behind the game-limit rule becomes more critical than usual.
If you're trying to recruit people into an enormous setup like that, I'd say your best bet of making it run smoothly is to recruit people who aren't going to have a lot of competition for their time. Without that limit, the players are going to start dropping like flies when the going gets rough. Your best bet of making it work from an activity standpoint is to strictly enforce that 3-game limit, or perhaps even to enforce a lower game-limit than usual.
Because even with players who are only in one or two games, that's going to be a tough game to keep up with. The sheer number of players is a pretty serious issue for workability.
I've played around with the setup a bit and I can get it down to 31, but its gonna be tough to get it lower than that. My problem is that the people who I most want to show off the setup to, I want them *in* the game, lol. I'm pretty sure it will remain fast paced though, as I'll also be starting it at night (a full night, not a no-kill).
I've played around with the setup a bit and I can get it down to 31, but its gonna be tough to get it lower than that. My problem is that the people who I most want to show off the setup to, I want them *in* the game, lol. I'm pretty sure it will remain fast paced though, as I'll also be starting it at night (a full night, not a no-kill).
Hmm, so about 29-ish. That's three days better than 35. That's getting somewhere closer to manageable.
Hmm, so about 29-ish. That's three days better than 35. That's getting somewhere closer to manageable.
Honestly seems like it would have the same issue as berserk mafia wherein it went on forever and, unless its quite a great game, dragged on and got boring for alot of people. Not to mention the replacements. THATS gunna be a pain in the ass as well.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
I'd like to say that Battle Royale was very fun and very dramatic for a large game. I think the only issue was in my scum team's role PMs.
What was that 27 people?
That's an exception really though. In BR, the sheer amount of scum reduced the amount of players quickly to essentially a normal amount (2 daykills on day 1 put it at 25), and the after 1 night we roughly had 20 players, a stable amount.
If DM wants to do something like that, it might be sustainable, but i get the feeling otherwise.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
That's an exception really though. In BR, the sheer amount of scum reduced the amount of players quickly to essentially a normal amount (2 daykills on day 1 put it at 25), and the after 1 night we roughly had 20 players, a stable amount.
If DM wants to do something like that, it might be sustainable, but i get the feeling otherwise.
True, the amount of death and carnage was awesome. I think it only lasted five days (blocks) in the end if I remember right.
The two daykills had to be my scum team though... both SK kills at that.
True, the amount of death and carnage was awesome. I think it only lasted five days (blocks) in the end if I remember right.
The two daykills had to be my scum team though... both SK kills at that.
Excuse me, the first daykill was your scum team. The second was Cyan getting nightkilled, but truth be told, we were on to him anyhow due to seppel's role pm issues.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Excuse me, the first daykill was your scum team. The second was Cyan getting nightkilled, but truth be told, we were on to him anyhow due to seppel's role pm issues.
I thought TFF was AE's post mining SK for Day 1, and Cyan exposed himself and got daykilled by TMT Day 1...
@Azrael- I got it down to 29 players, but less than that destabalizes it I think. I don't really want to discuss my setup too much because if I know players, they'll be in here mining for role information. I would ask that you guys just trust that I've learned my lesson regarding overpowered roles and let me run it, but (as usual) I'm kinda antsy to just let it rip and would like someone to see if its fast track worthy.
I know I likely wouldn't want to play in a game with that many players. As has been said it makes things really difficult to analyze, people can easily lurk their way through since their will be many other targets, finding replacements becomes an impossible task, rereading is really annoying, etc.
Also I don't like full N0's. Not that I've ever been in a game with one, but I find the idea of dying before the game starts unappealing.
@Skander- this is where you just have to trust in the mod. Anyone who has been through High School Mafia knows that "boring" is not a word that describes my games. Then again, I also like to recruit seasoned players first because they typically don't allow lurkers an easy win. If you're in a game with Axel, Az, loran, etc you either keep up or prepare to defend yourself. Then again, I'm also something of an evil bastard so I may keep the "Elite" mafia players to a minimum and toss 25 new players in with them. I also keep people interested (even after they've died) by making the promise that there is no such thing as a true vanilla townie in my games.
Starting with 31 with a fully lethal n0 would bring it approximately down to FF7-size for the start of day 1. While there were a large number of replacements that game, it finished fairly smoothly.
That being said, couldn't you just "kill" a couple of roles yourself, and then start with a no kill n0?
That's an idea actually.
Do random.org to "NK" 3 roles, have them start the game as the murdered NPC's that are often part of the flavor. Prevents people from joining and getting upset, and makes it a very managable number, if on the high side.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
@Skander- this is where you just have to trust in the mod. Anyone who has been through High School Mafia knows that "boring" is not a word that describes my games. Then again, I also like to recruit seasoned players first because they typically don't allow lurkers an easy win. If you're in a game with Axel, Az, loran, etc you either keep up or prepare to defend yourself. Then again, I'm also something of an evil bastard so I may keep the "Elite" mafia players to a minimum and toss 25 new players in with them. I also keep people interested (even after they've died)
Meh, i still think you should try and cut it down. Others' concerns are very valid in this situation, and even in games that hve been crazy and should hold interest, interest has wained due to over-large player bases.
by making the promise that there is no such thing as a true vanilla townie in my games.
COUGH, ADD KID, COUGH.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
@Azrael- I got it down to 29 players, but less than that destabalizes it I think. I don't really want to discuss my setup too much because if I know players, they'll be in here mining for role information. I would ask that you guys just trust that I've learned my lesson regarding overpowered roles and let me run it, but (as usual) I'm kinda antsy to just let it rip and would like someone to see if its fast track worthy.
Yeah, getting a review for fast track or just in general would probably be a good idea. Even the best of us can't catch everything on our own. Once you get the kinks worked out, I'm up for another DM game.
I'd look at Final Fantasy mafia for the recentest giantest game at 28 people. A billion replacements, and several modkills, and that was even after the single day scene that offed 5 players.
Well if I need to, I'll wait till I have 29 people sign up plus another 6 ready to replace in. I'll even go so far as to say that any player who starts this game and sees it through to completion will get a preferential /in for my next specialty game "UPick Mafia- where you the players suggest the roles you'd like to see." (Which will be limited to 20 players unless more than that make it through Media Mafia.)
Erestor, Silent Bob, Crocodile Dundee, etc from the list.
Awww, i wanted Erestor.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
FF7 had 3 modkills, IIRC, and an SK that could kill 4 people every 3 days, and happened to kill the Cult Leader, taking down another 2 people(they were culted) in the process. And it *still* went to day 8(technically speaking). And it started with 28 people.
I'm pretty sure that 29 people is simply too many.
I will never play a game that large ever again. There's just no good reason for it.
(now, never is a long time, and you know what they say, but I'm sticking with that for the time being)
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
As long as Ecophagy and I aren't even going to be able to get a dozen people playing our games (respectively), it would be logical to expect 2 and a half dozen to be out of the question.
Plus, I seem to recall looking at an earlier version of this game already - or at least something you were calling "Media Mafia" at the time. But that would have been some time ago.
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Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
As long as Ecophagy and I aren't even going to be able to get a dozen people playing our games (respectively), it would be logical to expect 2 and a half dozen to be out of the question.
That's not entirely fair; we are running basic games which would certainly attract fewer players than a larger, more exciting and complex game with a well known mod.
But I see your point
Oh yeah, you did help me before. Duh. I made some changes, but if you'd like to review it and help me hammer out the issues again, that would be great. If not, just sending me your guide for balancing games would be awesome. I lost my entire setup from before, so I had to re-write it from scratch.
Could we get a limit on amount of basics at a time? Say like...um, how about 3? Because the replacement problem would be fixed if those interested in signing up for basic 4 might be willing to replace into basics 1-3.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Could we get a limit on amount of basics at a time? Say like...um, how about 3? Because the replacement problem would be fixed if those interested in signing up for basic 4 might be willing to replace into basics 1-3.
I would say to make it something more fluid, for example, that the next basic cannot start until all replacements for all currently running basic games are found.
I would say to make it something more fluid, for example, that the next basic cannot start until all replacements for all currently running basic games are found.
That is a bit awkward, since one outstanding replacment could slow the whole system; and doesn't stop replacements coming about after a new game has started. And seems unfair to players already in a game.
A maximum limit on basic games would be nice (or maybe we could post in the sign-up thread that we need replacements?); but it seems to go against the whole queue system...
Cept grakthis. He already burnt, pissed on, buried, rebuilt, and burnt his bridges again >.>.
Nice to see you, hopefully you live up to the quality of play we've seen from Pale mage and Jsexton.
But not robroy. We hate that guy
Welcome back.
List updated.
-Azrael
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
EDIT: On the other hand, Z hasn't posted since April 2008. I'm going to start, and if he ends up showing up today, we can talk about it.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Also, I'd like to sign up for a specialty slot, now that my setup's ready.
If the specialty is not up for FTQ status, I'd be happy to review it.
I'd also review the basic game.
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She knows why.
I sent the setups to loran; if he thinks the specialty is FTQ-worthy, I'll send it over to you, Kraj.
If your game is a normal, then i don't think you'll get permission for this. I think something like 28 is the limit for a non specialty.
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Also, I can review the setup for you.
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Yeah, not me. I love DM games that aren't god mafia.
* loran16 asks for the add kid role.
(No you dont get to live that down. Ever)
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Edit- and no ADD kid.
Edit x2- The Game I do after Media Mafia is SO going to be a UPick.
Remind me in 3 years or so when I'm third on the list.
My blog.
Are you sure that's going to work out especially well? There comes a certain point where these things become so huge that analysis of all the various targets, and reaching a consensus, become nearly unmanageable. Fun for the mod, and novel, but daunting for the players.
I start to worry about that with games having over the 20 player mark. But in our 20+ player setups, the initial clumsiness our large games initially suffer from is usually offset by the relatively small period of time where that threshold number of players exists. A 75% increase in the player population means it may be 5-7 days before you get down to even a 20 player size, and another 3-5 days before the town is able to launch an end-game analysis.
The other issue is that the game of that size is likely to take a substantially longer time to complete, have unique balance issues, and tax the player-base. I remember playing in 7th Edition mafia about a million years ago, which had around 28 players, and the amount of posts and players we had to analyze was brutal and fairly unfun, even with a mass-claim that broke things open a fair bit. And back then, our games weren't nearly the size they've grown to, since.
I wouldn't be inclined to create an exemption to the game-limit rule because the rule exists to make sure we don't have player activity problems throughout the site. The one time I recall making an exception to that rule was in a case where it was fairly certain that activity problems wasn't going to be an issue. Here, where the burden of keeping up with 35 player's contributions is going to make the game exceedingly difficult to keep up with, I think the purpose behind the game-limit rule becomes more critical than usual.
If you're trying to recruit people into an enormous setup like that, I'd say your best bet of making it run smoothly is to recruit people who aren't going to have a lot of competition for their time. Without that limit, the players are going to start dropping like flies when the going gets rough. Your best bet of making it work from an activity standpoint is to strictly enforce that 3-game limit, or perhaps even to enforce a lower game-limit than usual.
Because even with players who are only in one or two games, that's going to be a tough game to keep up with. The sheer number of players is a pretty serious issue for workability.
Hmm, so about 29-ish. That's three days better than 35. That's getting somewhere closer to manageable.
Honestly seems like it would have the same issue as berserk mafia wherein it went on forever and, unless its quite a great game, dragged on and got boring for alot of people. Not to mention the replacements. THATS gunna be a pain in the ass as well.
What was that 27 people?
That's an exception really though. In BR, the sheer amount of scum reduced the amount of players quickly to essentially a normal amount (2 daykills on day 1 put it at 25), and the after 1 night we roughly had 20 players, a stable amount.
If DM wants to do something like that, it might be sustainable, but i get the feeling otherwise.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
True, the amount of death and carnage was awesome. I think it only lasted five days (blocks) in the end if I remember right.
The two daykills had to be my scum team though... both SK kills at that.
Excuse me, the first daykill was your scum team. The second was Cyan getting nightkilled, but truth be told, we were on to him anyhow due to seppel's role pm issues.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I thought TFF was AE's post mining SK for Day 1, and Cyan exposed himself and got daykilled by TMT Day 1...
@Azrael- I got it down to 29 players, but less than that destabalizes it I think. I don't really want to discuss my setup too much because if I know players, they'll be in here mining for role information. I would ask that you guys just trust that I've learned my lesson regarding overpowered roles and let me run it, but (as usual) I'm kinda antsy to just let it rip and would like someone to see if its fast track worthy.
Also I don't like full N0's. Not that I've ever been in a game with one, but I find the idea of dying before the game starts unappealing.
That being said, couldn't you just "kill" a couple of roles yourself, and then start with a no kill n0?
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Do random.org to "NK" 3 roles, have them start the game as the murdered NPC's that are often part of the flavor. Prevents people from joining and getting upset, and makes it a very managable number, if on the high side.
Meh, i still think you should try and cut it down. Others' concerns are very valid in this situation, and even in games that hve been crazy and should hold interest, interest has wained due to over-large player bases.
COUGH, ADD KID, COUGH.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Yeah, getting a review for fast track or just in general would probably be a good idea. Even the best of us can't catch everything on our own. Once you get the kinks worked out, I'm up for another DM game.
*NO* ADD kid. I learned my lesson thank you, lol.
I was going to throw in some vanilla roles just to mess with people, but finally cut Erestor, Silent Bob, Crocodile Dundee, etc from the list.
Awww, i wanted Erestor.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I'm pretty sure that 29 people is simply too many.
(now, never is a long time, and you know what they say, but I'm sticking with that for the time being)
Plus, I seem to recall looking at an earlier version of this game already - or at least something you were calling "Media Mafia" at the time. But that would have been some time ago.
That's not entirely fair; we are running basic games which would certainly attract fewer players than a larger, more exciting and complex game with a well known mod.
But I see your point
(*shamless beg for a replcement*)
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I would say to make it something more fluid, for example, that the next basic cannot start until all replacements for all currently running basic games are found.
That is a bit awkward, since one outstanding replacment could slow the whole system; and doesn't stop replacements coming about after a new game has started. And seems unfair to players already in a game.
A maximum limit on basic games would be nice (or maybe we could post in the sign-up thread that we need replacements?); but it seems to go against the whole queue system...