I feel the need to point out before you quick-lynch me just how hypocritical and scummy this is. Read the bold statements carefully. First, he says scum tend to want to quicklynch after a claim is made as vanilla.
He immediately suggests that we lynch me with only the minimal amount of "necessary discussion". In otherwords, he says something is scummy, and then immediately does just that. My credibility may be shot, but before I get the noose, I feel that should be pointed out for the record.
Unvote, Vote Kill-Joy.
Lol. Funny flaily OMGUS is funny.
Firstly, I never specified a vanilla claim.
Secondly, I stated previously that if your claim was insufficent I would vote you. I have done that.
Thirdly, I suggested that we lynch you AFTER said necessary discussion has taken place. (Necessary =/= minimum, btw) Ergo, if anyone thinks there's anything we NEED to discuss today, we can do so. Otherwise, we should lynch you, then focus on catching your scumbuddies tomarrow.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
1) That's an ad hominem attack and we both know that - countervoting proves absolutely nothing, and if anything, it's a town tell (it's certainly not a scum tell, in any case). Furthermore, it's deflecting. You've effectively made a case that I'm scum based solely on the premise that I'm scum, essentially a circular logic argument to boot. That's three strikes against. To elaborate, you've said that "scum are going to claim vanilla because they aren't open to counter-claim". You know who else is going to claim vanilla? Actual vanillas (I know this is a novel concept, but bear with me.) We're not going to claim scum (who is?), and we're certainly not going to claim town power, because that makes town power have to actually claim, opening them up to being night killed. That's a null tell and we both know it.
But sure, go ahead and vote me. It's not going to be any points in your favor when I flip town today.
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Thirdly, I suggested that we lynch you AFTER said necessary discussion has taken place. (Necessary =/= minimum, btw) Ergo, if anyone thinks there's anything we NEED to discuss today, we can do so. Otherwise, we should lynch you, then focus on catching your scumbuddies tomarrow.
This part bugs me. I'm not opposed to ending a day early if it is just dragging on. But I am opposed to ending a day early just because the current topic of conversation has run it's course.
Technically we don't need to discuss anything. We can all just rynch our way through the game. There's no rule requiring us to discuss anything before we vote. So what is "neceassary"?
We're nowhere close to the deadline. There's no reason to speed lynch anyone just because whatever currently "necessary" topics have been covered.
Also, why do we have to wait until tomorrow to focus on catching his scumbuddies (assuming he is scum)? What's wrong with right now? Granted, we can't know for certain until tomorrow whether he is actually scum or not. But why waste all this time we have right now? Why not look for links or whatnot between him and others right now? What is the rush to get to tomorrow?
I personally like that he's dropped the initial "scum quicklynch" argument.
That and he started a list then just block posted. Calm down and take time to post clearly.
also why did you end up unvoting me after that post?
I'm getting more convinced that I'm correct here.
RVS vote is RVS vote. I still FoS'd you if that makes you feel better.
Quote from Drifting Skies »
Atogoholic is someone I'm not completely sure about, but I think he's more town at this point. Megiddo, on the other hand, does seem to be tying Cythare and Atog together pretty hard. I'm suspicious of this. He ties them together, busses Cythare, and then comes back and lynches Atog tomorrow and all seems well and good for team scum.
tl;dr: I think Tordeck, Ahlyis, Kill-Joy, Megiddo, and Cythare are more likely scum at this point, while Deathjoey and Atog are more town.
Obviously he's town because he correctly pegs me as town.
Seriously though, I have a lean town read on DS. Sure, his early posts were kinda weird/fence-sitty and his claim isn't particularly strong, but I think that he has received undeserved +scum points for being unfamiliar with our style of playing mafia and throwing his votes arounds like candy in order to obtain information.
If you look at all the times he has voted for someone, but ignore the part where he actually votes for them, it reads as a townie bringing up a reasonable point. I think the fact that he votes for people in a more gung-ho fashion as the rest of us has made these points look more like bussing or omgus.
His "You have a good case against me, I can't really do anything." stance bothers me a little but overall I'm getting townhouse vibes.
Yes, I'm comfortable with a Cythare lynch today. The logic in some of his posts have been a little off, and a couple of his earlier posts may very well have been scumslips.
@Atog
It's been almost 72 hours since your last post. I don't like your lurking.
It hasn't been 72 hours. The OP was 72 hours ago. Also, "lurking" implies that I was reading this thread but refusing to post, the truth is that I was just busy.
1) That's an ad hominem attack and we both know that - countervoting proves absolutely nothing, and if anything, it's a town tell (it's certainly not a scum tell, in any case). Furthermore, it's deflecting. You've effectively made a case that I'm scum based solely on the premise that I'm scum, essentially a circular logic argument to boot. That's three strikes against. To elaborate, you've said that "scum are going to claim vanilla because they aren't open to counter-claim". You know who else is going to claim vanilla? Actual vanillas (I know this is a novel concept, but bear with me.) We're not going to claim scum (who is?), and we're certainly not going to claim town power, because that makes town power have to actually claim, opening them up to being night killed. That's a null tell and we both know it.
But sure, go ahead and vote me. It's not going to be any points in your favor when I flip town today.
I am afraid of jumping into a potential mislynch because of meta differences though. I think I remember seeing this happen to certain people in recent games.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
I can vaguely see reason behind doing a night cycle after a lynch is effectively decided rather than delaying to hunt more. We have more information on d2 than d1 from a lynch and an nk before factoring in claimed night actions.
This said, d2 info is more valuable if we can combine it with d1 interactions for context.
So you're saying that you normally press in really hard into other townies for no strong reason?
Even as I am typing this I know this is a stupid question, that's exactly what you did in CF mafia II and you were town then.
Counterquestion: How many games have you seen me play in? One, right? How can you say that I'm acting weird after only seeing me play one game?
Meta is making my head hurt.
1. Your undue assumption in that first line is noted.
2. Given that you've only see me play a game where I was incredibly reckless and bullish with my scumhunting, the fact that you would call me out for "slamming" somebody is odd.
3. Attacking me for doing something you know me to have done as town, or rather, for doing something that is the entirety of how you know I play this game as town gave me pause.
I agree though, meta is probably not going to be a valuable tool in this game.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Alright, now that I'm not quite so completely livid at being personally attacked and mocked, I will address your issue, Megiddo, on why countervoting (or OMGUS, as you like to call it) is a null tell from my point of view - it's a second-level argument based on meta-analysis of the tactic.
Simply put - if it's so widely used and regarded as a scum tell, why would any scum player with a brain use the tactic, if at all? If scum knows that countervoting is seen as a scum tell, they're not going to do so, perhaps going so far as to actively avoid doing so in order to prevent getting an "accurate scum tell". As such, actual scum are going to make sure not to give in to these "universal tells", which, so far as I can tell, really aren't so universal after all. Given this, the scum tell as I see it is as much to avoid lashing out as to be extremely subtle about it. Answer me this: Assume for the sake of argument that I'm scum. In this scenario, what do I gain from making a blatantly obvious scum tell and not even trying to hide the fact that I'm doing so?
From my point of view, blatant countervoting is either a n00b tell or a null tell (null tell because of the level three argument - once this is seen as a town tell, it's usable by the scum once again, and so forth).
With that said, why does Kill-Joy want to lynch me after only the necessary discussion? It doesn't appear to be a town mindset to want to stifle discussion as soon as possible and work on finding my "scumbuddies" tomorrow. As mentioned above, wouldn't he want to continue to investigate and interrogate more people to determine their interactions to have more information out there? Town would, but he seems to have reached the conclusion that now that he's "definitively" pegged me as scum,he wants to stop the day right here and now. Scum has a definite reason to want to do so - he's found a person who is ringing all the "universal" scum tells, and by lynching me quickly, he gets to keep town credibility while at the same time rob the town of vital information that can be used tomorrow after the night kill(-s, if the vig fires) and investigation.
I'm getting the red flag from his reasoning here.
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1. Your undue assumption in that first line is noted.
2. Given that you've only see me play a game where I was incredibly reckless and bullish with my scumhunting, the fact that you would call me out for "slamming" somebody is odd.
3. Attacking me for doing something you know me to have done as town, or rather, for doing something that is the entirety of how you know I play this game as town gave me pause.
I agree though, meta is probably not going to be a valuable tool in this game.
Ok, those are some valid points. Heres my response:
1. I was trying not to take meta into account too much.
2. You were tying me to Cy after I made a single post of a dissenting opinion that, now that more posts have come to light, I don't even agree with any more. I was suspicious that you were scumbuddies with Cy and that your plan was to tie me to him you that when he flipped scum you could get a free mislynch, and I had never seen this tactic from you before.
3. You're right, we shouldn't base too much on meta. Lets just move on.
Alright, now that I'm not quite so completely livid at being personally attacked and mocked, I will address your issue, Megiddo, on why countervoting (or OMGUS, as you like to call it) is a null tell from my point of view - it's a second-level argument based on meta-analysis of the tactic.
Simply put - if it's so widely used and regarded as a scum tell, why would any scum player with a brain use the tactic, if at all? If scum knows that countervoting is seen as a scum tell, they're not going to do so, perhaps going so far as to actively avoid doing so in order to prevent getting an "accurate scum tell". As such, actual scum are going to make sure not to give in to these "universal tells", which, so far as I can tell, really aren't so universal after all. Given this, the scum tell as I see it is as much to avoid lashing out as to be extremely subtle about it. Answer me this: Assume for the sake of argument that I'm scum. In this scenario, what do I gain from making a blatantly obvious scum tell and not even trying to hide the fact that I'm doing so?
From my point of view, blatant countervoting is either a n00b tell or a null tell (null tell because of the level three argument - once this is seen as a town tell, it's usable by the scum once again, and so forth).
With that said, why does Kill-Joy want to lynch me after only the necessary discussion? It doesn't appear to be a town mindset to want to stifle discussion as soon as possible and work on finding my "scumbuddies" tomorrow. As mentioned above, wouldn't he want to continue to investigate and interrogate more people to determine their interactions to have more information out there? Town would, but he seems to have reached the conclusion that now that he's "definitively" pegged me as scum,he wants to stop the day right here and now. Scum has a definite reason to want to do so - he's found a person who is ringing all the "universal" scum tells, and by lynching me quickly, he gets to keep town credibility while at the same time rob the town of vital information that can be used tomorrow after the night kill(-s, if the vig fires) and investigation.
I'm getting the red flag from his reasoning here.
Countervoting =/= OMGUS
There's also another five-letter acronym you should consider.
Ok, those are some valid points. Heres my response:
1. I was trying not to take meta into account too much.
2. You were tying me to Cy after I made a single post of a dissenting opinion that, now that more posts have come to light, I don't even agree with any more. I was suspicious that you were scumbuddies with Cy and that your plan was to tie me to him you that when he flipped scum you could get a free mislynch, and I had never seen this tactic from you before.
3. You're right, we shouldn't base too much on meta. Lets just move on.
Ah! Ok, your second point makes sense. I need to reread and try to understand your mindset there.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
DS: OMGUS is essentially a form of faulty/skewed reasoning. It might not be a scum tell, but it doesn't do anything to help the town, that is why it is frowned upon.
1) That's an ad hominem attack and we both know that - countervoting proves absolutely nothing, and if anything, it's a town tell (it's certainly not a scum tell, in any case). Furthermore, it's deflecting. You've effectively made a case that I'm scum based solely on the premise that I'm scum, essentially a circular logic argument to boot. That's three strikes against. To elaborate, you've said that "scum are going to claim vanilla because they aren't open to counter-claim". You know who else is going to claim vanilla? Actual vanillas (I know this is a novel concept, but bear with me.) We're not going to claim scum (who is?), and we're certainly not going to claim town power, because that makes town power have to actually claim, opening them up to being night killed. That's a null tell and we both know it.
But sure, go ahead and vote me. It's not going to be any points in your favor when I flip town today.
Ok. Here on MTGS we don't countervote. Here its OMGUS and that means that you're voting someone because they voted you, which is bad.
As I understand it though, you do it immediately following a case on yourself. Is this not true? And if it is, why did you wait till now to do it?
And I didn't say you were scum BECAUSE you claimed vanilla. I was saying that your claiming vanilla didn't help your case that you're town, ergo it supports my arguement that you're scum.
What's this about how my case against you is bad? You said earlier that myself and DJ had a good case, now you're saying I don't? Imagine that.
This part bugs me. I'm not opposed to ending a day early if it is just dragging on. But I am opposed to ending a day early just because the current topic of conversation has run it's course.
I'm not saying end it EARLY. I'm saying end it ON TIME.
Technically we don't need to discuss anything. We can all just rynch our way through the game. There's no rule requiring us to discuss anything before we vote. So what is "neceassary"?
And if we don't discuss anything, how do you suppose we catch scum?
Necessary is analyzing the information that the day has brought us, whether it's claims, vote analysis, night actions, deaths, etc. Day 1 is the hardest due to the least info available.
We're nowhere close to the deadline. There's no reason to speed lynch anyone just because whatever currently "necessary" topics have been covered.
Also, why do we have to wait until tomorrow to focus on catching his scumbuddies (assuming he is scum)? What's wrong with right now? Granted, we can't know for certain until tomorrow whether he is actually scum or not. But why waste all this time we have right now? Why not look for links or whatnot between him and others right now? What is the rush to get to tomorrow?
Have you ever been in a game with a 500+ post Day 1? It's a pain. Rereading it is a pain. I'm tired of overly long days.
Why wait till tomarrow? Because I'd like confirmation that he's scum before we decide who's scum with him. I have my opinions on his alignment, but that's not fact. I COULD be wrong. If I am, then all that time speculating is wasted. And the day is extended for no reason.
Why do it all today when it'll be WAY more productive tomarrow?
EWP:
Quote from Skies »
Alright, now that I'm not quite so completely livid at being personally attacked and mocked, I will address your issue, Megiddo, on why countervoting (or OMGUS, as you like to call it) is a null tell from my point of view - it's a second-level argument based on meta-analysis of the tactic.
Simply put - if it's so widely used and regarded as a scum tell, why would any scum player with a brain use the tactic, if at all? If scum knows that countervoting is seen as a scum tell, they're not going to do so, perhaps going so far as to actively avoid doing so in order to prevent getting an "accurate scum tell". As such, actual scum are going to make sure not to give in to these "universal tells", which, so far as I can tell, really aren't so universal after all. Given this, the scum tell as I see it is as much to avoid lashing out as to be extremely subtle about it. Answer me this: Assume for the sake of argument that I'm scum. In this scenario, what do I gain from making a blatantly obvious scum tell and not even trying to hide the fact that I'm doing so?
From my point of view, blatant countervoting is either a n00b tell or a null tell (null tell because of the level three argument - once this is seen as a town tell, it's usable by the scum once again, and so forth).
With that said, why does Kill-Joy want to lynch me after only the necessary discussion? It doesn't appear to be a town mindset to want to stifle discussion as soon as possible and work on finding my "scumbuddies" tomorrow. As mentioned above, wouldn't he want to continue to investigate and interrogate more people to determine their interactions to have more information out there? Town would, but he seems to have reached the conclusion that now that he's "definitively" pegged me as scum,he wants to stop the day right here and now. Scum has a definite reason to want to do so - he's found a person who is ringing all the "universal" scum tells, and by lynching me quickly, he gets to keep town credibility while at the same time rob the town of vital information that can be used tomorrow after the night kill(-s, if the vig fires) and investigation.
I'm getting the red flag from his reasoning here.
Personal attacks and mockery? I've done no such thing.
Secondly, I've explained here my reasoning.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
DS: OMGUS is essentially a form of faulty/skewed reasoning. It might not be a scum tell, but it doesn't do anything to help the town, that is why it is frowned upon.
This is a reasonable position. However, Kill-Joy elected not to address the points I raised, instead trying to deflect them with accusations of attacking him baselessly for voting to lynch me.
Why, Kill-Joy, do you want to deliberately cut off discussion so suddenly and deprive the town of interactions and information that could be used for the benefit of the town and the detriment of the scum? Is it because, as I suspect, you are scum yourself and are hoping to score an easy mislynch based on my seemingly poor playstyle?
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1) That's an ad hominem attack and we both know that - countervoting proves absolutely nothing, and if anything, it's a town tell (it's certainly not a scum tell, in any case). Furthermore, it's deflecting. You've effectively made a case that I'm scum based solely on the premise that I'm scum, essentially a circular logic argument to boot. That's three strikes against. To elaborate, you've said that "scum are going to claim vanilla because they aren't open to counter-claim". You know who else is going to claim vanilla? Actual vanillas (I know this is a novel concept, but bear with me.) We're not going to claim scum (who is?), and we're certainly not going to claim town power, because that makes town power have to actually claim, opening them up to being night killed. That's a null tell and we both know it.
But sure, go ahead and vote me. It's not going to be any points in your favor when I flip town today.
Alright, now that I'm not quite so completely livid at being personally attacked and mocked, I will address your issue, Megiddo, on why countervoting (or OMGUS, as you like to call it) is a null tell from my point of view - it's a second-level argument based on meta-analysis of the tactic.
Simply put - if it's so widely used and regarded as a scum tell, why would any scum player with a brain use the tactic, if at all? If scum knows that countervoting is seen as a scum tell, they're not going to do so, perhaps going so far as to actively avoid doing so in order to prevent getting an "accurate scum tell". As such, actual scum are going to make sure not to give in to these "universal tells", which, so far as I can tell, really aren't so universal after all. Given this, the scum tell as I see it is as much to avoid lashing out as to be extremely subtle about it. Answer me this: Assume for the sake of argument that I'm scum. In this scenario, what do I gain from making a blatantly obvious scum tell and not even trying to hide the fact that I'm doing so?
From my point of view, blatant countervoting is either a n00b tell or a null tell (null tell because of the level three argument - once this is seen as a town tell, it's usable by the scum once again, and so forth).
With that said, why does Kill-Joy want to lynch me after only the necessary discussion? It doesn't appear to be a town mindset to want to stifle discussion as soon as possible and work on finding my "scumbuddies" tomorrow. As mentioned above, wouldn't he want to continue to investigate and interrogate more people to determine their interactions to have more information out there? Town would, but he seems to have reached the conclusion that now that he's "definitively" pegged me as scum,he wants to stop the day right here and now. Scum has a definite reason to want to do so - he's found a person who is ringing all the "universal" scum tells, and by lynching me quickly, he gets to keep town credibility while at the same time rob the town of vital information that can be used tomorrow after the night kill(-s, if the vig fires) and investigation.
I'm getting the red flag from his reasoning here.
Am i reading this right?
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
That it's a null tell, possibly leaning town, as I've seen it?
Yep, you read me correctly. All you've managed to do is demonstrate that I don't always use the most consistent wording when explaining my ideas.
But anyway, since you're so convinced that I'm scum, let's go ahead and off me and prove without a doubt that my claim and perhaps my analysis as well has been nothing but truthful. I welcome it.
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Why, Kill-Joy, do you want to deliberately cut off discussion so suddenly and deprive the town of interactions and information that could be used for the benefit of the town and the detriment of the scum? Is it because, as I suspect, you are scum yourself and are hoping to score an easy mislynch based on my seemingly poor playstyle?
Nice loaded words DS (Cut off discussion suddenly? Not so much) . Is there any discussion that will happen today about you that will benefit the town? I see none. Short of pursuing another lynch, which is just a waste of time, and a distraction.
Like I said, if anyone thinks there's discussion that needs to happen today, speak up. We can discuss it. If not, then lets not waste any more time.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
So, what it boils down to is: You don't want to see any more reactions to the events that have transpired. If, as you suspect is the case, I am scum, you don't want to see who is going to defend me. You don't want to try to figure out who my scumbuddies are right now, because tomorrow is soon enough, correct? It's a "distraction" to look for other targets for a lynch. Why is that? That's not a town mindset - you've made up your mind and found your reason, and no amount of additional information is wanted or needed. You want to "not waste any more time" today.
But let's go further - I want everyone to look at this sentence very carefully:
Quote from Kill-Joy »
Is there any discussion that will happen today about you that will benefit the town?
Why the bolded part? When did I say anywhere in any of my posts that we should continue to discuss me in particular. I would love to have some discussion about you now. If you're town, as I suspect you're not, you should welcome the opportunity to discuss your innocence and analysis.
Short of pursuing another lynch, which is just a waste of time, and a distraction.
Why another lynch? I've never said that we shouldn't vote me - on the contrary, it will prove my innocence beyond all doubt and strike a lot of doubt about how pushy you're being toward this lynch.
Let's go beyond that. Why would it be a waste of time to pursue another lynch? What does the town gain by not investigating someone else? Even if it comes down to "ask someone some pointed questions and get more information, then come back and lynch me later." I'll be here all day when you want to answer that one. Scum gains plenty from this though - the pressure stays on me and away from them, and when I show up town confirmed, they'll be able to sit back and say that they pushed for the one raising all the red flags, whack someone else with the nk, and ride the momentum all the way to scum victory.
Quote from Kill-Joy »
Like I said, if anyone thinks there's discussion that needs to happen today, speak up. We can discuss it. If not, then lets not waste any more time.
I am someone, and I think there is more discussion that needs to happen today. I've spoken up, so let's discuss it. Unless you don't actually mean what you just said and are pushing for summary execution.
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you are advocating we stop discussing for the Day literally in the same post as you say you aren't doing that
I'm not saying CAN WE JUST LYNCH HIM PLEASE AND END THE DAY NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWW.
I'm saying my opinion is that we're in a good place to end it now, unless someone has reason to disagree. If someone comes up with a reason to continue discussion (a better lynch, pointing out something of note someone else said that may influence our opinions on the current lynch, etc) then I'm fine with it. But if everyone's just like "well we have a lynch... but lets wait until (insert event, time, whatever here) then whats the point of that? It's just making the day longer than it needs to be.
Maybe I'm just not explaining myself very well.
Quote from Skies »
So, what it boils down to is: You don't want to see any more reactions to the events that have transpired. If, as you suspect is the case, I am scum, you don't want to see who is going to defend me. You don't want to try to figure out who my scumbuddies are right now, because tomorrow is soon enough, correct? It's a "distraction" to look for other targets for a lynch. Why is that? That's not a town mindset - you've made up your mind and found your reason, and no amount of additional information is wanted or needed. You want to "not waste any more time" today.
It is a distraction. How is it you don't realize that running up another lynch target is a distraction? Having to choose between two people on a given day is a distraction, unless the town lynches the two on two consecutive days, which IME almost never happens.
Quote from Skies »
Why the bolded part? When did I say anywhere in any of my posts that we should continue to discuss me in particular. I would love to have some discussion about you now. If you're town, as I suspect you're not, you should welcome the opportunity to discuss your innocence and analysis.
I never said YOU said anything about not wanting to discuss you. But discussing you, the probable lynch for the day, is among the most important things we need to focus on. If it's done, then there ya go.
And if the town wants to discuss me, then I'm fine with it. I'm town. I'm ok with discussing me if thats what people wanna do.
Why another lynch? I've never said that we shouldn't vote me - on the contrary, it will prove my innocence beyond all doubt and strike a lot of doubt about how pushy you're being toward this lynch.
Let's go beyond that. Why would it be a waste of time to pursue another lynch? What does the town gain by not investigating someone else? Even if it comes down to "ask someone some pointed questions and get more information, then come back and lynch me later." I'll be here all day when you want to answer that one. Scum gains plenty from this though - the pressure stays on me and away from them, and when I show up town confirmed, they'll be able to sit back and say that they pushed for the one raising all the red flags, whack someone else with the nk, and ride the momentum all the way to scum victory.
I'm tired of watching townies get distracted from an obvious lynch because they get distracted. I can't be the only one who noticed that you're deflecting onto me here. You're trying to paint me as scum to distract people from lynching you.
Forget "What does town gain from not pursuing another lynch?" (Besides, I've answered it ad nauseum.)
How about "What does town gain from staying focused on the person most obviously scum?" The answer to that is a) we catch scum. and b) we stay focused, and not distracted .
Quote from Skies »
I am someone, and I think there is more discussion that needs to happen today. I've spoken up, so let's discuss it. Unless you don't actually mean what you just said and are pushing for summary execution.
Ok.
Anyone agree that this is something that needs discussing?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Ahh the smell of n00bs in the morning. Gotta love it.
< blog right over there with the 24 games I have completed plus links to my ongoing. Read and learn.
I find that post EXTREMELY insulting and utterly NOT HELPFUL. And since this is pretty much the only type of post you seem to want to make this game...
Unvote. Policy Vote: Tordeck
We don't need that kind of attitude. It brings nothing to the game except your sense of snobbery and your belief that you're better than the rest of us. Leave it at the door and start actually playing WITH the rest of us and I'll be happy to change my vote. Continue with the veiled personal attacks against the rest of us and I'll continue to vote you until one of us is dead. Period.
I find that post EXTREMELY insulting and utterly NOT HELPFUL. And since this is pretty much the only type of post you seem to want to make this game...
Unvote. Policy Vote: Tordeck
We don't need that kind of attitude. It brings nothing to the game except your sense of snobbery and your belief that you're better than the rest of us. Leave it at the door and start actually playing WITH the rest of us and I'll be happy to change my vote. Continue with the veiled personal attacks against the rest of us and I'll continue to vote you until one of us is dead. Period.
Thirding. If you're so high and mighty, why don't you actually contribute meaningfully as well? Certainly someone so advanced and prolific with his play experience has already solved this game completely and has no need to be part of this game for the rest of it.
Unvote, Policy Vote: Tordeck
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Former Level 2 Judge (Retired / Renounced)
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
I find that post EXTREMELY insulting and utterly NOT HELPFUL. And since this is pretty much the only type of post you seem to want to make this game...
Unvote. Policy Vote: Tordeck
We don't need that kind of attitude. It brings nothing to the game except your sense of snobbery and your belief that you're better than the rest of us. Leave it at the door and start actually playing WITH the rest of us and I'll be happy to change my vote. Continue with the veiled personal attacks against the rest of us and I'll continue to vote you until one of us is dead. Period.
Edit via double post to bold, which I forgot to do above:
Unvote, Policy Vote: Tordeck
Stop distracting the town and get lynched please.
Am I really one of the few that sees that he's trying to deflect onto ANY possible wagon available here? First Cythare, then me, now Tordeck. (I'm not 100% sure about Cyth actually, and I'm lazy right now to look back at the game. But if that's not true, my point still stands.)
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'm still not sure how the your post here is invalidated by posts describing person N0. It seems to line up to me, unless people are suggesting that the flavor of "being interested in pilfering supplies from Career tributes" suggests that he may be hiding a special ability. Until we have a CC that confirms (or decisively proves the opposite), I'm comfortable with my unvote for now.
What do you mean a CC that proves opposite?
Flavor isn't hard to make up when you've been given a source material and false claims.
And I say this because I would say the possibility of scum being given a false, or at least safe claims are quite high, given how flavor restrictive this game is and modgaming at it's finest.
Hello all. From this point forward I will be replacing Albus. I'll need some time to read over the gamestate again, and if any of you have pressing matters you feel I may miss, do let me know.
Welcome Nyxu, I look forward to playing with you in this game xDD
I feel the need to point out before you quick-lynch me just how hypocritical and scummy this is. Read the bold statements carefully. First, he says scum tend to want to quicklynch after a claim is made as vanilla.
He immediately suggests that we lynch me with only the minimal amount of "necessary discussion". In otherwords, he says something is scummy, and then immediately does just that. My credibility may be shot, but before I get the noose, I feel that should be pointed out for the record.
This part bugs me. I'm not opposed to ending a day early if it is just dragging on. But I am opposed to ending a day early just because the current topic of conversation has run it's course.
Technically we don't need to discuss anything. We can all just rynch our way through the game. There's no rule requiring us to discuss anything before we vote. So what is "neceassary"?
We're nowhere close to the deadline. There's no reason to speed lynch anyone just because whatever currently "necessary" topics have been covered.
Also, why do we have to wait until tomorrow to focus on catching his scumbuddies (assuming he is scum)? What's wrong with right now? Granted, we can't know for certain until tomorrow whether he is actually scum or not. But why waste all this time we have right now? Why not look for links or whatnot between him and others right now? What is the rush to get to tomorrow?
Because we're already split between 2 (and possibly a 3rd) lynch candidate.
Yes, there is a little more discussion that -could- go on, but the information gained from a flip would serve much better than chasing after links that would be much easier to see after more information is revealed.
Why are you so eager to drop this issue?
Why is modgaming bad?
Eager? Dont see eager there. My vote on DS was to ensure he claimed since he was stalling. Once he did and it fit enough with my own I put my vote back on the person I wanted to actually lynch today
Modgaming is always bad. I've ranted and raved about it in just about every game since WoW.
Not a good look for you.
No but it served its purpose. I wanted to see who would bite. Self wagon analysis is one of my favorite behavior patterns to analyze
ROYGBIV TSI
Nyxu is the first to strike at the low hanging fruit, voted me and had solid logic behind it but then stated that the case on Cy was stronger. Which give me thought that Nyxu is looking to get any easy mislynch off the ground - leaning scum
Cy - is exhibiting every n00b scum tell possible which means one of two things he is the worst scum ever or he is town and this being his first game absolutely know not which way to go. I was going for the most likely of the two from my prospective but with everyone else's reactions I am starting to doubt my intial read - leaning scum but for now Unvote
Ahlyis did so but in a very townish genuinely offended manner. - town
DS did so it what can only be seen as an opportunistic scum way. Going after low hanging fruit, buddying to a townie, and deflecting pressure away from himself - scum vote DS
KJ I'm pretty sure realized the gambit I was running and reacted as such by ignoring it and also looking at who did react. - leaning town
DJ Your reaction of but then ending with trying to string lynchs and tie players together has me - leaning scum
Meg has seen this play by me before recently and acted as such - null
Atog is actively lurking - null
Curious i have a gut town read on
Vox and Shin I just havnt paid enough attention to to get a read
Nyxu is the first to strike at the low hanging fruit, voted me and had solid logic behind it but then stated that the case on Cy was stronger. Which give me thought that Nyxu is looking to get any easy mislynch off the ground - leaning scum
I feel this is leaning towards strawman territory. I am not looking for an 'easy mislynch'
The vote was meant to apply pressure- it appears to have applied enough to end this.. I can't think of a word other than gambit for your actions. As such, it's served its purpose.
The vote was meant to apply pressure- it appears to have applied enough to end this.. I can't think of a word other than gambit for your actions. As such, it's served its purpose.
I'll adjust my vote when we get a votecount.
Your vote had nothing to with it. I waited till enough of the player base had had time to check in. Once that happened I was free to drop the charade and analyze the wagon on me.
To be frank, I have a huge problem with your gambit. It spawns a larger, overarching WIFOM on everything you do. Is it more of Tordeck's pseudojester analysis? Is he shooting himself in the foot on purpose so he can get reads or did he actually slip up? The fact that you read active lurking as a null tell also bothers me. Actively lurking provides nothing to the town. It may be your favourite way to get reads on people, but it derailed everyone else's scum hunting with your Red Herring.
Is it more of Tordeck's pseudojester analysis? Is he shooting himself in the foot on purpose so he can get reads or did he actually slip up?
Fortunately the gambit is only useful or executable once per game (if even that much there are some games I wouldn't ever try it. This is one I felt I could get away with it)
The fact that you read active lurking as a null tell also bothers me.
Null read not null tell. Means That they (both Atog and Meg i had the same read on) are both cases where I am leaning neither towards scum or towards town, hence the green color(ROYGBIV TSI actually does mean something). Total no reads of which I have no feelings what so ever remain in black
It may be your favorite way to get reads on people, but it derailed everyone else's scum hunting with your Red Herring.
I am the only one that I can be sure is town. I don't need everyone else's scum hunting I need mine.
I have none in my role. It's null.
Lol. Funny flaily OMGUS is funny.
Firstly, I never specified a vanilla claim.
Secondly, I stated previously that if your claim was insufficent I would vote you. I have done that.
Thirdly, I suggested that we lynch you AFTER said necessary discussion has taken place. (Necessary =/= minimum, btw) Ergo, if anyone thinks there's anything we NEED to discuss today, we can do so. Otherwise, we should lynch you, then focus on catching your scumbuddies tomarrow.
1) That's an ad hominem attack and we both know that - countervoting proves absolutely nothing, and if anything, it's a town tell (it's certainly not a scum tell, in any case). Furthermore, it's deflecting. You've effectively made a case that I'm scum based solely on the premise that I'm scum, essentially a circular logic argument to boot. That's three strikes against. To elaborate, you've said that "scum are going to claim vanilla because they aren't open to counter-claim". You know who else is going to claim vanilla? Actual vanillas (I know this is a novel concept, but bear with me.) We're not going to claim scum (who is?), and we're certainly not going to claim town power, because that makes town power have to actually claim, opening them up to being night killed. That's a null tell and we both know it.
But sure, go ahead and vote me. It's not going to be any points in your favor when I flip town today.
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
This part bugs me. I'm not opposed to ending a day early if it is just dragging on. But I am opposed to ending a day early just because the current topic of conversation has run it's course.
Technically we don't need to discuss anything. We can all just rynch our way through the game. There's no rule requiring us to discuss anything before we vote. So what is "neceassary"?
We're nowhere close to the deadline. There's no reason to speed lynch anyone just because whatever currently "necessary" topics have been covered.
Also, why do we have to wait until tomorrow to focus on catching his scumbuddies (assuming he is scum)? What's wrong with right now? Granted, we can't know for certain until tomorrow whether he is actually scum or not. But why waste all this time we have right now? Why not look for links or whatnot between him and others right now? What is the rush to get to tomorrow?
But go ahead, lynch me and see for yourself.
You're the one who's so certain of my alignment.
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
That and he started a list then just block posted. Calm down and take time to post clearly.
I love this response: "Whoa, you're countering all my points. That's really weird."
RVS vote is RVS vote. I still FoS'd you if that makes you feel better.
Obviously he's town because he correctly pegs me as town.
Seriously though, I have a lean town read on DS. Sure, his early posts were kinda weird/fence-sitty and his claim isn't particularly strong, but I think that he has received undeserved +scum points for being unfamiliar with our style of playing mafia and throwing his votes arounds like candy in order to obtain information.
If you look at all the times he has voted for someone, but ignore the part where he actually votes for them, it reads as a townie bringing up a reasonable point. I think the fact that he votes for people in a more gung-ho fashion as the rest of us has made these points look more like bussing or omgus.
His "You have a good case against me, I can't really do anything." stance bothers me a little but overall I'm getting townhouse vibes.
Yes, I'm comfortable with a Cythare lynch today. The logic in some of his posts have been a little off, and a couple of his earlier posts may very well have been scumslips.
I think you missed my unvote.
It hasn't been 72 hours. The OP was 72 hours ago. Also, "lurking" implies that I was reading this thread but refusing to post, the truth is that I was just busy.
Posts like this don't help anyone.
This is sigworthy.
Just CF mafia II.
This said, d2 info is more valuable if we can combine it with d1 interactions for context.
So you're saying that you normally press in really hard into other townies for no strong reason?
Even as I am typing this I know this is a stupid question, that's exactly what you did in CF mafia II and you were town then.
Counterquestion: How many games have you seen me play in? One, right? How can you say that I'm acting weird after only seeing me play one game?
Meta is making my head hurt.
2. Given that you've only see me play a game where I was incredibly reckless and bullish with my scumhunting, the fact that you would call me out for "slamming" somebody is odd.
3. Attacking me for doing something you know me to have done as town, or rather, for doing something that is the entirety of how you know I play this game as town gave me pause.
I agree though, meta is probably not going to be a valuable tool in this game.
Simply put - if it's so widely used and regarded as a scum tell, why would any scum player with a brain use the tactic, if at all? If scum knows that countervoting is seen as a scum tell, they're not going to do so, perhaps going so far as to actively avoid doing so in order to prevent getting an "accurate scum tell". As such, actual scum are going to make sure not to give in to these "universal tells", which, so far as I can tell, really aren't so universal after all. Given this, the scum tell as I see it is as much to avoid lashing out as to be extremely subtle about it. Answer me this: Assume for the sake of argument that I'm scum. In this scenario, what do I gain from making a blatantly obvious scum tell and not even trying to hide the fact that I'm doing so?
From my point of view, blatant countervoting is either a n00b tell or a null tell (null tell because of the level three argument - once this is seen as a town tell, it's usable by the scum once again, and so forth).
With that said, why does Kill-Joy want to lynch me after only the necessary discussion? It doesn't appear to be a town mindset to want to stifle discussion as soon as possible and work on finding my "scumbuddies" tomorrow. As mentioned above, wouldn't he want to continue to investigate and interrogate more people to determine their interactions to have more information out there? Town would, but he seems to have reached the conclusion that now that he's "definitively" pegged me as scum,he wants to stop the day right here and now. Scum has a definite reason to want to do so - he's found a person who is ringing all the "universal" scum tells, and by lynching me quickly, he gets to keep town credibility while at the same time rob the town of vital information that can be used tomorrow after the night kill(-s, if the vig fires) and investigation.
I'm getting the red flag from his reasoning here.
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
1. I was trying not to take meta into account too much.
2. You were tying me to Cy after I made a single post of a dissenting opinion that, now that more posts have come to light, I don't even agree with any more. I was suspicious that you were scumbuddies with Cy and that your plan was to tie me to him you that when he flipped scum you could get a free mislynch, and I had never seen this tactic from you before.
3. You're right, we shouldn't base too much on meta. Lets just move on.
I buy that it could be a noob tell, but you're not a noob.
Countervoting =/= OMGUS
There's also another five-letter acronym you should consider.
Ah! Ok, your second point makes sense. I need to reread and try to understand your mindset there.
Ok. Here on MTGS we don't countervote. Here its OMGUS and that means that you're voting someone because they voted you, which is bad.
As I understand it though, you do it immediately following a case on yourself. Is this not true? And if it is, why did you wait till now to do it?
And I didn't say you were scum BECAUSE you claimed vanilla. I was saying that your claiming vanilla didn't help your case that you're town, ergo it supports my arguement that you're scum.
What's this about how my case against you is bad? You said earlier that myself and DJ had a good case, now you're saying I don't? Imagine that.
It's a meta thing. I've hard about it from someone else in a different game. There, apperently its a thing.
I'm not saying end it EARLY. I'm saying end it ON TIME.
And if we don't discuss anything, how do you suppose we catch scum?
Necessary is analyzing the information that the day has brought us, whether it's claims, vote analysis, night actions, deaths, etc. Day 1 is the hardest due to the least info available.
Have you ever been in a game with a 500+ post Day 1? It's a pain. Rereading it is a pain. I'm tired of overly long days.
Why wait till tomarrow? Because I'd like confirmation that he's scum before we decide who's scum with him. I have my opinions on his alignment, but that's not fact. I COULD be wrong. If I am, then all that time speculating is wasted. And the day is extended for no reason.
Why do it all today when it'll be WAY more productive tomarrow?
EWP:
Personal attacks and mockery? I've done no such thing.
Secondly, I've explained here my reasoning.
This is a reasonable position. However, Kill-Joy elected not to address the points I raised, instead trying to deflect them with accusations of attacking him baselessly for voting to lynch me.
Why, Kill-Joy, do you want to deliberately cut off discussion so suddenly and deprive the town of interactions and information that could be used for the benefit of the town and the detriment of the scum? Is it because, as I suspect, you are scum yourself and are hoping to score an easy mislynch based on my seemingly poor playstyle?
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
Am i reading this right?
Yep, you read me correctly. All you've managed to do is demonstrate that I don't always use the most consistent wording when explaining my ideas.
But anyway, since you're so convinced that I'm scum, let's go ahead and off me and prove without a doubt that my claim and perhaps my analysis as well has been nothing but truthful. I welcome it.
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
Nice loaded words DS (Cut off discussion suddenly? Not so much) . Is there any discussion that will happen today about you that will benefit the town? I see none. Short of pursuing another lynch, which is just a waste of time, and a distraction.
Like I said, if anyone thinks there's discussion that needs to happen today, speak up. We can discuss it. If not, then lets not waste any more time.
But let's go further - I want everyone to look at this sentence very carefully:
Why the bolded part? When did I say anywhere in any of my posts that we should continue to discuss me in particular. I would love to have some discussion about you now. If you're town, as I suspect you're not, you should welcome the opportunity to discuss your innocence and analysis.
Why another lynch? I've never said that we shouldn't vote me - on the contrary, it will prove my innocence beyond all doubt and strike a lot of doubt about how pushy you're being toward this lynch.
Let's go beyond that. Why would it be a waste of time to pursue another lynch? What does the town gain by not investigating someone else? Even if it comes down to "ask someone some pointed questions and get more information, then come back and lynch me later." I'll be here all day when you want to answer that one. Scum gains plenty from this though - the pressure stays on me and away from them, and when I show up town confirmed, they'll be able to sit back and say that they pushed for the one raising all the red flags, whack someone else with the nk, and ride the momentum all the way to scum victory.
I am someone, and I think there is more discussion that needs to happen today. I've spoken up, so let's discuss it. Unless you don't actually mean what you just said and are pushing for summary execution.
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
I'm not saying CAN WE JUST LYNCH HIM PLEASE AND END THE DAY NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWW.
I'm saying my opinion is that we're in a good place to end it now, unless someone has reason to disagree. If someone comes up with a reason to continue discussion (a better lynch, pointing out something of note someone else said that may influence our opinions on the current lynch, etc) then I'm fine with it. But if everyone's just like "well we have a lynch... but lets wait until (insert event, time, whatever here) then whats the point of that? It's just making the day longer than it needs to be.
Maybe I'm just not explaining myself very well.
It is a distraction. How is it you don't realize that running up another lynch target is a distraction? Having to choose between two people on a given day is a distraction, unless the town lynches the two on two consecutive days, which IME almost never happens.
I never said YOU said anything about not wanting to discuss you. But discussing you, the probable lynch for the day, is among the most important things we need to focus on. If it's done, then there ya go.
And if the town wants to discuss me, then I'm fine with it. I'm town. I'm ok with discussing me if thats what people wanna do.
I'm tired of watching townies get distracted from an obvious lynch because they get distracted. I can't be the only one who noticed that you're deflecting onto me here. You're trying to paint me as scum to distract people from lynching you.
Forget "What does town gain from not pursuing another lynch?" (Besides, I've answered it ad nauseum.)
How about "What does town gain from staying focused on the person most obviously scum?" The answer to that is a) we catch scum. and b) we stay focused, and not distracted .
Ok.
Anyone agree that this is something that needs discussing?
< blog right over there with the 24 games I have completed plus links to my ongoing. Read and learn.
The Family
I find that post EXTREMELY insulting and utterly NOT HELPFUL. And since this is pretty much the only type of post you seem to want to make this game...
Unvote. Policy Vote: Tordeck
We don't need that kind of attitude. It brings nothing to the game except your sense of snobbery and your belief that you're better than the rest of us. Leave it at the door and start actually playing WITH the rest of us and I'll be happy to change my vote. Continue with the veiled personal attacks against the rest of us and I'll continue to vote you until one of us is dead. Period.
I agree with this on all levels.
Unvote, Policy Vote: Tordeck
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
Unvote, Policy Vote: Tordeck
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
Have played duals? I have PucaPoints for them!
(Credit to DarkNightCavalier)
$tandard: Too poor.
Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
yeah, I'm good with this where it is.
What is this I don't even...
Stop distracting the town and get lynched please.
Am I really one of the few that sees that he's trying to deflect onto ANY possible wagon available here? First Cythare, then me, now Tordeck. (I'm not 100% sure about Cyth actually, and I'm lazy right now to look back at the game. But if that's not true, my point still stands.)
Why are you so eager to drop this issue?
Why is modgaming bad?
What do you mean a CC that proves opposite?
Flavor isn't hard to make up when you've been given a source material and false claims.
And I say this because I would say the possibility of scum being given a false, or at least safe claims are quite high, given how flavor restrictive this game is and modgaming at it's finest.
Welcome Nyxu, I look forward to playing with you in this game xDD
What does this mean?
The case AGAINST cythare? as in, all of his slips and his learning curve earlier?
Any comment on DS?
Because we're already split between 2 (and possibly a 3rd) lynch candidate.
Yes, there is a little more discussion that -could- go on, but the information gained from a flip would serve much better than chasing after links that would be much easier to see after more information is revealed.
I lol'd
I lol'd some more
Nice catch.
Not a good look for you.
Yes, for now.
I've got my game plan for the next few days - lynching DS today, and then either Tordeck or Cy, depending on what happens.
At this point in time, I'm looking at a DS, Cy and Tordeck scumteam.
From what I can see, Atog and DS are not on the same team.
Also, scumteam have safe claims.
Modgaming is always bad. I've ranted and raved about it in just about every game since WoW.
No but it served its purpose. I wanted to see who would bite. Self wagon analysis is one of my favorite behavior patterns to analyze
ROYGBIV TSI
Nyxu is the first to strike at the low hanging fruit, voted me and had solid logic behind it but then stated that the case on Cy was stronger. Which give me thought that Nyxu is looking to get any easy mislynch off the ground - leaning scum
Cy - is exhibiting every n00b scum tell possible which means one of two things he is the worst scum ever or he is town and this being his first game absolutely know not which way to go. I was going for the most likely of the two from my prospective but with everyone else's reactions I am starting to doubt my intial read - leaning scum but for now Unvote
Ahlyis did so but in a very townish genuinely offended manner. - town
DS did so it what can only be seen as an opportunistic scum way. Going after low hanging fruit, buddying to a townie, and deflecting pressure away from himself - scum vote DS
KJ I'm pretty sure realized the gambit I was running and reacted as such by ignoring it and also looking at who did react. - leaning town
DJ Your reaction of but then ending with trying to string lynchs and tie players together has me - leaning scum
Meg has seen this play by me before recently and acted as such - null
Atog is actively lurking - null
Curious i have a gut town read on
Vox and Shin I just havnt paid enough attention to to get a read
The Family
Last bit- what? How do we know this?
Also, yes, I mean the case against Cy seems solid, not any kind of defense for Cy's.. slips.
I feel this is leaning towards strawman territory. I am not looking for an 'easy mislynch'
The vote was meant to apply pressure- it appears to have applied enough to end this.. I can't think of a word other than gambit for your actions. As such, it's served its purpose.
I'll adjust my vote when we get a votecount.
Your vote had nothing to with it. I waited till enough of the player base had had time to check in. Once that happened I was free to drop the charade and analyze the wagon on me.
The Family
Tordeck (4): Nyxu, Ahlyis, Drifting Skies, Cythare
Drifting Skies (3): Megiddo, kill-joy, Tordeck
Cythare (3): Voxxicus, Shinen, The Most Curious Thing
Not Voting (2): Atogaholic, Deathjoey
With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Day One will end no later than 11:59PM, Wednesday, September 5th.
I recommend using line breaks so that votes and unvotes are more visible.
L-3
Thats still to be determined.
The Family
Null read not null tell. Means That they (both Atog and Meg i had the same read on) are both cases where I am leaning neither towards scum or towards town, hence the green color(ROYGBIV TSI actually does mean something). Total no reads of which I have no feelings what so ever remain in black
I am the only one that I can be sure is town. I don't need everyone else's scum hunting I need mine.
The Family