@AI I can't read the spectator forum. At least, I couldn't as of yesterday. I know a lot of in depth input from you usually goes into that (vis a vis CCMV) And I would like to read it.
Also... funny thing about the Hunger Games. There can only be one winner! *stabs Ahlyis*
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@AI I can't read the spectator forum. At least, I couldn't as of yesterday. I know a lot of in depth input from you usually goes into that (vis a vis CCMV) And I would like to read it.
You may have needed to join the GG first. I changed the settings so that topics are now visible to non-members as well.
Hindsight 20-20, AI, it might've done just as well with Thresh as vig (brute force) and Peeta as a protective of some sort (Camouflaging someone so they're unfindable by careers.). One of the worst drawbacks of flavor is the flavorgaming, and I genuinely don't think Katniss being both a role and a narrator was a game-changing issue, just a minor nitpick after-the-fact.
I ended up giving Peeta as a false-claim to the mafia.
Thanks for the feedback; I'll keep your input in mind when designing my next game.
You're welcome! Honestly there's no reasonable accounting for flavourgaming AFAIK, except not having flavor
Ahylis, you definitely deserve the MVP you played a solid game and came across townie for it all.
Nyxu, you played scummily and got lynched. It sucks that it happened and caused us to lose. But step up and accept that you had a part in this loss instead of blaming everyone else.
Ahylis, you definitely deserve the MVP you played a solid game and came across townie for it all.
Nyxu, you played scummily and got lynched. It sucks that it happened and caused us to lose. But step up and accept that you had a part in this loss instead of blaming everyone else.
While I do agree with the Message that Trodeck is saying I will also say that lynching a UnCC'd PR is never good.
I didn't follow this game like I had meant too and I don't recall seeing a Mass Claim at all. If there wasn't one, then there should have been prior to Nxyu being lynched or at the beginning of the final Day.
Ahylis, you're an excellent scum player. I will need to read this game to better understand your play. Congrats on the MVP.
@AI I can't read the spectator forum. At least, I couldn't as of yesterday. I know a lot of in depth input from you usually goes into that (vis a vis CCMV) And I would like to read it.
You may have needed to join the GG first. I changed the settings so that topics are now visible to non-members as well.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
While I do agree with the Message that Trodeck is saying I will also say that lynching a UnCC'd PR is never good.
I will agree that it is "usually" unwise, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it is "never" good. There have been plenty of times that Scum have claimed a PR to try to get out of their lynch. Just because there is no counter-claim doesn't mean you should give them a free pass and ignore everything that put them into the lynch in the first place!
I didn't follow this game like I had meant too and I don't recall seeing a Mass Claim at all. If there wasn't one, then there should have been prior to Nxyu being lynched or at the beginning of the final Day.
There was a "vote" whether to do a mass claim or not. I voted strongly against on the basis that, at the time, only one of the power roles had been revealed and a mass claim would just hand the rest to the Mafia while the Mafia easily hid in generic vanilla tribute claims. And while all of that was true, it wasn't the real reason I was against a mass claim.
I was really against a mass claim because I wanted to save the decision for KJ and I of whether to claim to be Peeta or not for as long as possible. At that point, I really didn't care much about the Town's power roles. We had the game pretty well in hand with or without killing the power roles.
ed2: I'd also also like to extend the customary "comments on my play" question. Shalako had a lot to say about how scummy I was, so I clearly was raising some alarm bells there...
Lemme check my Notes:
1. Not using the information gained players Deaths.
That was the biggest one for me. It was like you were just trying to lynch people who you had preconceived notions about.
The Fluff posting and asking questions that had just been asked also sent up red flags.
Shalako, I would like to know why you think Meg was a stupid/bad kill for us?
Wait did you guys Kill Meg and Nyx Tried to Kill Tordeck?
Wtf.
You came out firing that Tordeck was the obvious Mafia NK (which you prevented) and Meg had to have been a Vig kill. Why?
Razor.
As a final note, I had a chance to hammer Nyxu for the likely win in MyLo, but I've seen enough Scum teams lose a game they had won because they jumped the gun and started gloating too early. So I called for a vote count and delayed my vote just as a good Townie should do. And I did it just in case there was some unknown factor that could still stop us.
I had a one-shot Self Protect that I used on the Last night hoping that you would try to kill me.
I think one of the things that helped doom you was Shalako's conviction that Meg was a Vig kill and the attempt on Tordeck was a Scum attempt. I don't think he ever re-thought that position once you claimed. Had he stopped and thought about it, he might have realized he was being too narrow minded.
That doesn't matter.
I knew there was a Vig anyways and would have backed Nxu the same way I backed Tordeck if I had gotten to Post.
If that had happened, I was prepared to claim Peeta with an ability I didn't want to divulge.
I think in this meta that would just have gotten you killed.
To be honest though, as soon as you claimed 1-shot Vig, Town should immediately have gone for a No Lynch. But nobody except me apparently considered that and I wasn't about to suggest it.
Ahylis, you definitely deserve the MVP you played a solid game and came across townie for it all.
Nyxu, you played scummily and got lynched. It sucks that it happened and caused us to lose. But step up and accept that you had a part in this loss instead of blaming everyone else.
He's right to be upset.
He was town and an unCC'd Power Role.
And for the Second time this game sloppy Town play by not asking for a CC.
ed2: I'd also also like to extend the customary "comments on my play" question. Shalako had a lot to say about how scummy I was, so I clearly was raising some alarm bells there...
Lemme check my Notes:
1. Not using the information gained players Deaths.
That was the biggest one for me. It was like you were just trying to lynch people who you had preconceived notions about.
The Fluff posting and asking questions that had just been asked also sent up red flags.
Yeah, I think what happened was that I got stuck on the idea that Cy and Tog were buddies, and when Tog flipped I just really tunneled hard on that.
I mean, just so I know what I need to be doing, what should I have done differently on D3 after Tog flipped scum?
Fluff posting, yes. I uh... need to dial that back a bit, since it's kind of annoying and just makes games hard to read. I'm not sure what you mean about asking questions that had just been asked, can you remind me?
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Shalako, I would like to know why you think Meg was a stupid/bad kill for us?
Wait did you guys Kill Meg and Nyx Tried to Kill Tordeck?
Wtf.
We had already tried to kill Tordeck once and didn't know if it failed because he was bulletproof or because he was protected. No reason to go after him again until we knew.
I had a one-shot Self Protect that I used on the Last night hoping that you would try to kill me.
It's a large part of why I claimed for no reason.
Not that it would have mattered, but I did originally set you for the kill. As night went on and our Mod didn't start the next day or end the game, I eventually changed the final target.
But the reason I say it wouldn't have mattered is because we were roleblocking you the final night regardless of who we decided to try to kill.
To be honest though, as soon as you claimed 1-shot Vig, Town should immediately have gone for a No Lynch. But nobody except me apparently considered that and I wasn't about to suggest it.
Why no lynch?
Because it was MyLo and there was plenty worth discussing once the claims came out. Revisiting the mass claim idea would've been good. As would simply analyzing the setup given the deaths and claims. If more time had been taken, I think we might've had a hard time keeping Nyxu as the lynch.
I disagree with no lynch there with the exception that shalako had a self-protect. I would not be inclined to go for a no lynch if there is a confirmed town obvious kill target for the scum (i.e., a confirmed doc).
The mass claim should have happened, though, and yes, more discussion was needed. I think I said in the spec group that if we had mass claimed it would (presumably) have looked like:
Doc
Guy who was protected by doc
vig
vanilla
vanilla
vanilla
If we believe everything that's pretty good odds. Of course, I don't know that things would have turned up that way.
I will also note that the two people who were against the mass claim had something in common :rolleyes:.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
I disagree with no lynch there with the exception that shalako had a self-protect. I would not be inclined to go for a no lynch if there is a confirmed town obvious kill target for the scum (i.e., a confirmed doc).
The mass claim should have happened, though, and yes, more discussion was needed. I think I said in the spec group that if we had mass claimed it would (presumably) have looked like:
Doc
Guy who was protected by doc
vig
vanilla
vanilla
vanilla
If we believe everything that's pretty good odds. Of course, I don't know that things would have turned up that way.
I will also note that the two people who were against the mass claim had something in common :rolleyes:.
The problem with your assessment is that the guy who was protected by the Doc was protected from the Vig kill, NOT the Mafia NK. On Night 1 there was no proof that the Doc protect was the reason for the no kill and on Day 4 it very clearly was NOT successful in preventing the Mafia NK.
I do find it "funny" that the Mafia opposed the mass claim while the Town were in favor of it and yet the mass claim failed to be taken up.
I disagree with no lynch there with the exception that shalako had a self-protect. I would not be inclined to go for a no lynch if there is a confirmed town obvious kill target for the scum (i.e., a confirmed doc).
The mass claim should have happened, though, and yes, more discussion was needed. I think I said in the spec group that if we had mass claimed it would (presumably) have looked like:
Doc
Guy who was protected by doc
vig
vanilla
vanilla
vanilla
If we believe everything that's pretty good odds. Of course, I don't know that things would have turned up that way.
I will also note that the two people who were against the mass claim had something in common :rolleyes:.
The problem with your assessment is that the guy who was protected by the Doc was protected from the Vig kill, NOT the Mafia NK. On Night 1 there was no proof that the Doc protect was the reason for the no kill and on Day 4 it very clearly was NOT successful in preventing the Mafia NK.
I do find it "funny" that the Mafia opposed the mass claim while the Town were in favor of it and yet the mass claim failed to be taken up.
Well perhaps, but you're then trying to lynch Tordeck, which... actually probably would have happened given Nyxu's position...
Hmmm... *chinscratch*
I still would rather have seen that happen than what actually happened though.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
I haven't looked at the set-up at all, i"ll admit up front, but I had a snap reaction:
@AI: Has the mafia won ALL your games? or am I remembering incorrectly?
Mebbe.
I was hoping that this particular streak would be broken in this game (because I had awesome flavor ideas for what would happen if the town won), but alas; it was not meant to be.
Also, I command you to return and play moar Mafia!
Shal, because a half way decent claim (which could for others be flavored away thanks to AI) shouldnt protect terribley scummy behavior of which nxyu had all game.
Also... funny thing about the Hunger Games. There can only be one winner! *stabs Ahlyis*
You may have needed to join the GG first. I changed the settings so that topics are now visible to non-members as well.
Too bad he was the one who killed you in the end!
You're welcome! Honestly there's no reasonable accounting for flavourgaming AFAIK, except not having flavor
Nyxu, you played scummily and got lynched. It sucks that it happened and caused us to lose. But step up and accept that you had a part in this loss instead of blaming everyone else.
The Family
While I do agree with the Message that Trodeck is saying I will also say that lynching a UnCC'd PR is never good.
I didn't follow this game like I had meant too and I don't recall seeing a Mass Claim at all. If there wasn't one, then there should have been prior to Nxyu being lynched or at the beginning of the final Day.
Ahylis, you're an excellent scum player. I will need to read this game to better understand your play. Congrats on the MVP.
I can see it now.
[/quote]
Reading is tech, apperently.
I SHALL NOT BE SILENCED!
Thank you.
I will agree that it is "usually" unwise, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it is "never" good. There have been plenty of times that Scum have claimed a PR to try to get out of their lynch. Just because there is no counter-claim doesn't mean you should give them a free pass and ignore everything that put them into the lynch in the first place!
There was a "vote" whether to do a mass claim or not. I voted strongly against on the basis that, at the time, only one of the power roles had been revealed and a mass claim would just hand the rest to the Mafia while the Mafia easily hid in generic vanilla tribute claims. And while all of that was true, it wasn't the real reason I was against a mass claim.
I was really against a mass claim because I wanted to save the decision for KJ and I of whether to claim to be Peeta or not for as long as possible. At that point, I really didn't care much about the Town's power roles. We had the game pretty well in hand with or without killing the power roles.
Thank you.
Why did you kill the Un'cc'd Proven Vig Tordeck?
What made you decide to go with 3 Goons A.I.?
Well Played Mafia.
Me using Az/Seppel's "Suspect the Experienced player who is still alive nearing Endgame.
Yeah I have no idea how I'm going to tell if Ahlyis is Town from now on
Lemme check my Notes:
1. Not using the information gained players Deaths.
That was the biggest one for me. It was like you were just trying to lynch people who you had preconceived notions about.
The Fluff posting and asking questions that had just been asked also sent up red flags.
I think this is the Best way to play Mafia.
Wait did you guys Kill Meg and Nyx Tried to Kill Tordeck?
Wtf.
Razor.
I had a one-shot Self Protect that I used on the Last night hoping that you would try to kill me.
It's a large part of why I claimed for no reason.
That doesn't matter.
I knew there was a Vig anyways and would have backed Nxu the same way I backed Tordeck if I had gotten to Post.
I think in this meta that would just have gotten you killed.
Why no lynch?
Well sure if you flavor game
He's right to be upset.
He was town and an unCC'd Power Role.
And for the Second time this game sloppy Town play by not asking for a CC.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Yeah, I think what happened was that I got stuck on the idea that Cy and Tog were buddies, and when Tog flipped I just really tunneled hard on that.
I mean, just so I know what I need to be doing, what should I have done differently on D3 after Tog flipped scum?
Fluff posting, yes. I uh... need to dial that back a bit, since it's kind of annoying and just makes games hard to read. I'm not sure what you mean about asking questions that had just been asked, can you remind me?
Well played by the mafia team. Hopefully the batch of newcomers will stay with us.
We had already tried to kill Tordeck once and didn't know if it failed because he was bulletproof or because he was protected. No reason to go after him again until we knew.
Not that it would have mattered, but I did originally set you for the kill. As night went on and our Mod didn't start the next day or end the game, I eventually changed the final target.
But the reason I say it wouldn't have mattered is because we were roleblocking you the final night regardless of who we decided to try to kill.
Because it was MyLo and there was plenty worth discussing once the claims came out. Revisiting the mass claim idea would've been good. As would simply analyzing the setup given the deaths and claims. If more time had been taken, I think we might've had a hard time keeping Nyxu as the lynch.
The mass claim should have happened, though, and yes, more discussion was needed. I think I said in the spec group that if we had mass claimed it would (presumably) have looked like:
Doc
Guy who was protected by doc
vig
vanilla
vanilla
vanilla
If we believe everything that's pretty good odds. Of course, I don't know that things would have turned up that way.
I will also note that the two people who were against the mass claim had something in common :rolleyes:.
@AI: Has the mafia won ALL your games? or am I remembering incorrectly?
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Oh my goodness Art you're back!
Eh, just a drive-by posting.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
The problem with your assessment is that the guy who was protected by the Doc was protected from the Vig kill, NOT the Mafia NK. On Night 1 there was no proof that the Doc protect was the reason for the no kill and on Day 4 it very clearly was NOT successful in preventing the Mafia NK.
I do find it "funny" that the Mafia opposed the mass claim while the Town were in favor of it and yet the mass claim failed to be taken up.
QFT
Hmmm... *chinscratch*
I still would rather have seen that happen than what actually happened though.
Shalako's claim checked out, which meant Tordeck's position as town was more than likely.
Mebbe.
I was hoping that this particular streak would be broken in this game (because I had awesome flavor ideas for what would happen if the town won), but alas; it was not meant to be.
Also, I command you to return and play moar Mafia!
The Family