However, as Void pointed out, Wessel's primary language not being English could certainly be a factor here, and one I had not considered.
You would not be the first and you won't be the last. I believe I made the same mistake when talking to Wessel in a previous game. IDK which one, but I am fairly certain it was Wessel.
It's a null tell the first time around, but afterwards it becomes a little scummy. This is my opinion on the subject. Not everyone follows this.
That's weak, I've found that scum are more likely to replace out after being pressured.
In my only experience with replacing a non-poster I ended up being town. I also remember someone saying Popsucker stopped posting right before this game started, so he may have left the site before even reading his role PM.
Anyone is likely to replace out due to pressure...
And what are you trying to say here? Popsucker /Mindslavor is likely to be town due to replacing a non poster?
Anyway if Popsucker end ups flipping scum you are very very likely town.
This makes no sense. So just above this, you said he was likely to be town, yet now -if- he flips scum? Playing both sides here...
"If I call you town, does that make me look townier to you?" ;]
And I don't see how Popsucker's alignment in any way affects Proph's alignment based on that one theory.
Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm getting from this you were actually aware and fine with a cop outing himself in response to your "Nyx is the cop" just because it's "avenue for discussion"? Worse still you would want lynching the claimed cop if that happened because of the WIFOM? Are you actually claiming scum?
Aware of the possibility of a counter claim? Yes.
Claiming scum? Also Yes.
If there -was- a counterclaim, there is no way of verifying that, especially not day 1.
Looking at the possibilities, we have 3 options.
1. The Cop counterclaims
2. A town counterclaims
3. A Scum counterclaims
1. If a cop counterclaimed, we still can't verify it's authenticity. This also paints him as a target for scum, and thus, goes against the game plan of a Cop of staying alive and being useful. I assume at least a basic understanding of this game would prevent a town cop from counterclaiming. Not without some investigation results, and certainly not d1.
2. Town counterclaim just leads to confusion and is detrimental to town.
Let them live, and get NK'd, or lynch them for backtracking and inconsistencies d2. This reason -should- prevent random counterclaims, even if it served the purpose of obscuring the cop.
3. Same as reason 2. Since the first 2 reasons are unlikely to happen, this means only scum will counterclaim.
A statement like that is completely null and void. It doesn't make one look townish or scummier by any means, if you think saying "I"m town" is indicative of scum you are either not very bright or purposely trying to smear me.
Not really, a true town convinces through actions, not words. (well, still words...)
A statement like that is only fluff.
If a statement like that is null, then why would you feel the need to say it?
People will make their own reads regardless of that statement.
Also, you accuse me of smearing you and smear me in the same sentence? heh.
I agree self-meta is almost worthless, but there's a key difference in scum using self-meta than town using self-meta. Scum uses self-meta mainly to prove points "John is scum because from my meta he does those things as scum". I wasn't doing that, I'm not trying to highlight my meta to prove things, I'm using meta to show that things I've being accused of aren't indicative of me being scum, that's bull, one cannot be accused of "taking advantage" of things he haven't brought up in the first place.
You're arguing a completely different point here.
What I'm saying that you're doing is, for example:
If you had a habit of lurking as scum, and people were aware of that.
If you were aware of their knowledge, you could take advantage of this by -NOT- lurking as scum, and thus use self meta as an argument against being scum.
Also, the fact that you brought it up yourself, as opposed to other people bringing it up for you further voids the validity of your meta argument.
Exactly this, a vote throwed can't be erased, it goes for posterity, if I'm lynched or NKed people will know I'm town and the ones who voted me will look bad. The fact that you both:
a)Says I'm your biggest suspect
b)Yet refuses to vote me, afraid of the repercussions of badwagoning me.
You completely ignore that I stated that my reads were not concrete enough for me to vote.
I don't refuse to vote, I've just refrained from voting at this point. And already, you use it as a smear against me.
(like being the first voter on my wagon that you are afraid of :rolleyes:) therefore you are trying to avoid voting me because of that, maybe waiting to see if my wagon will pick up steam before commiting into it.
Town votes on their biggest suspect, if you don't vote your biggest suspect who do you want to lynch? the second biggest suspect? your towniest read? It makes no sense if you are town and that's because you are not one, you are scum.
I like to make my vote count, and not just throw it around on whoever looks at me funny.
You mixed things up, I promised my reads before travelling and I gave them right after people answered my questions that's a long time ago. People just didn't like my reads very much.
With "reads" like those, it's no wonder people didn't like them very much...
It's not complete list of interesting things but most of those I felt as notable is there. I left out most posts I liked or had no problem with, or if some bad thing repeated I didn't quote it in more posts.
Well, my reads are right now something like this.
Most likely scums are:
DRey - I mentioned him a lot so see for yourself
Mindslavor - he's in there too
Leaning scum are:
parinoid - partially gut partially somethin I can't find right now
22bebo - not sure now, will look it up tomorrow if you need
Archae - I am undecide about him, one post I have him as LS, next one as neutral-to-leaning_town
Not clear reads:
Prophylaxis
Void - although I like his list he is around too short to make proper opinion
Leaning town:
DeathJoey - I have no problem with his RVS game, not so thrilled about rest of game, but recent posts moved him from neutral to LT. Most shaky status, though.
nyxu - I consider opening fight of this game as town vs. town
Wessel - Some of his posts I like a lot, others not so much.
Town:
Misting - towniest of all so far and could be my spokesperson sometimes as his opinions mirros mine.
I am of for now. It'S almost 5 a.m. and I need some rest.
If there was a opposite to OMGUS, I would use it on your post.
He seemed to be the one most often trying to put the voting wagon back on track. Everytime things slowed down he was most eager it appeared to reclaim his suspects and remind people to do the same.
Interesting read, although it's possible that he was just poking for activity.
I didn't take much out of it.
The cop hunting deal. It may just be me, but I cannot find a single good reason a townie would do this as it doesn't benefit us. This game has been rather unique to everything I have read thus far though.
This has been answered multiple times.
Including the "hunting", as you put it.
Ok, well this is what I have been waiting on to follow up on my read with. I informed you I wanted to see more content, and then asked what I wanted to see it on. Your dodging of this question despite putting a lot of time and effort into your post strikes me as scummy.
Okay, although I -do- intend to get back on those eventually...
Preferably when I don't have a huge backlog of multi-quotes to get through ^_^;;
My case is it still doesnt make sense for town to cop hunt day one. Furthermore you have blown that off, and my request to your conclusions. So I will ask again, why have you not followed with your conclusions, especially since the pressure has piled up?
See above.
The only "conclusion" I have right now, is that Nyxu is highly likely to be town. The other results, are just providing interactions to be examined.
EBWODP: Your post was not there when I began mine, however :
What is the difference between denying being scum, and admitting being town? What is your thought process behind this? I am town, but saying I am not scum is the same thing is it not?
Denying being scum does not necessarily mean they're saying they're town ;]
Are you hinting at a 3rd party now? O:
First person to go 3rd party hunting is definitely scum xDD
-tsk tsk- arcadic, this is a basic!
The issue is that you always used the quote marks around the word scum (as in: 'scum' rather than scum), and would only do so when referring to yourself. I'm wondering why that is the case. Let me know if that's still unclear.
I personally feel like this would merit more attention than throwing it into a quote with this next piece and ignoring it:
Maybe that's just me though.
These can be answered by reading into my motives.
Or was this directed at Nyxu?
If you personally saw something that required following up, why are you trying to get someone else to do it for you?
Why does it feel like you're trying to get him to attack me?
EWP: It also of note Wessel never voted LMD, he's just gauging the player base sensation about LMD. Looks he's trying to validate his vote before commiting.
Gauge reactions, and trying to force a little activity from L_MD is how I saw that.
He explicitly says here me and DJ are more valuable than LMD, meaning we are better/activer/experienced players therefore a riskier lynch.
This statement contains no logic, and looks like you're just trying to force your own opinion to try and lead others' thoughts. Not the first time you've done this.
Let's analyse this, because this is very telling imho.
1)Wessel wanted to lynch LMD for not being active enough, in response to this, LMD ragequits the game. And right after that Wessel just ignore that and turns his attention to one of the most active players, yeah that's totally consistent.
L_MD replaced out due to activity, not pressure.
You can't put pressure on someone who's not playing .___.
2)Wessel says he's voting me because I'm not being truthful, but there's a big problem with that. He knows I'm telling the truth because I've said the very same thing in another game about him and flipped town, heck I think I've said this in a lot of previous games as I usually find Wessel's insights good.
Another terrible self meta argument.
I did this in another game I was town, if I do the same thing again, I makes me look town. Yeah... no.
Also another compliment to cover this attack?
3)He's showing cognitive dissonance in the highest level. First he says "let's lynch the weaker player because DRey is too valuable to lose D1" soon after I say a similar "let's lynch the DJ player because Wessel is too valuable to lose D1" Wessel comes and says "vote DRey, because that's reasoning is garbage". Therefore you are attacking me for something you clearly don’t actually believe given your previous stance.
Subtly changing it from "More valuable than a Lurker (L_MD)" to "Too valuable to lose D1"
That's completely wrong, LMD has a whooping 4 posts! If we lynch him today we would gain... nothing. No interactions, no posts, no reread, nothing, because it's impossible to try to draw connections with a player that haven't simply done anything. If LMD flipped scum we would be just slightly better than today, and if he flipped town, we would be left with zero leads plus one town less. Considering the chances of Wessel being scum are now 99% I strongly oppose a LMD Vitek lynch.
You're saying 2 different things here.
Yes nothing is gained, but not as much is lost as if a major active player was lynched, even at the cost of letting a potential scum live, because at least an active scum can provide interactions and content to analyse.
Also, why is wessel 99% scum? How are you so completely sure of your read?
And an L_MD lynch and a Vitek lynch are -NOT- the same thing.
This is the point of view of scum, because if you are town, there's no way for you to know that, LMD could be the cop meaning he would lose a ton if he died. From a scum POV surely you don't lose much... for obvious reasons.
who even said we -had- a cop? ;]
And why do you feel the need to throw around the cop now?
EWP: Yeah, I know I'm contradicting myself because "I don't like to lynch Wessel D1", but things have changed, I'm confident this is the best lynch, and we will get loads of info on others players (DJ, Vitek) with his lynch.
Yes, contradicting your own buddying...
I also want to know what exactly has changed?
I could also have said it like this: 'I would mind if Lord_McDonalds flipped town, just not as much as when my other two suspects DeathJoey or DRey would flip town.'
What?
Uhh... I'm not sure what you're trying to say here..
So you think L_MD was scum, and you would be annoyed at the mis-read?
And DRey and I are your biggest suspects, but you wouldn't be annoyed when we flipped... because you KNOW we would flip town?
DJ, I think you misread Wessel there. And because of recent pointing-outs of when|if statements.. all of the following is hypothetical and not intended to be predictive.
LMD myslynch would be bothersome, but DJ or DRey mislynches would be more bothersome because he's confident in his reads that they wouldn't be mislynches.
Ach.. Just noticed so Doubleposting.
Also. Please note. DJ puts a lot of suspicion in what is coming off as a consistently noncomittal manner on DRey, then in his last statement (or question) insinuates that Wessel knows that not only he (DJ) will flip town, but DRey will also flip town.
DJ, would you kindly explain this nonconformity in your argument?
[FONT="Lucida Console"]VOTE COUNT #4
Drey (2) : Misting , Wessel
Deathjoey (1) : nyxu
22bebo (2) : Prophylaxis , Mindslavor
Wessel (1) : Drey
Players currently withholding their malice :
22bebo , Archae , Deathjoey , Vitek , Parinoid , Void
Lynch Threshold not reached. [B]Deadline set for August 17th unless activity warrants. .[/B].
With 12 alive it is 7 to lynch.
Misting and Proph have 24 hours to post before i prod them.
I don't know for what reason he replaced out, but it had probably to do with a lack of time, seeing how he wasn't active before. So you think he is scum (or at least suspect him more) because of it, but at the same time you think I am scum because you think I was the cause he replaced out. What kind of logic is this, DRey?
Stop putting words in my mouth, I've never suspected LMD to be scum (in fact he's leaning town because of the underhanded way you tried to push for him) and I find it highly unlikely anyone could determine anyones alignment for 3 posts (plus one for RVS). Looks like I'm finding myself being misunderstood (again :sweat:) , let me try to rewrite my previous phrase to make myself clearer.
And what was LMD response to this pressure? He simply replaced out. If it was me suspecting someone, and right after putting pressure in that guy, they replace out, my expected follow up, would be to be even more suspitious, but Wessel goes exacly the contrary way of that, after LMD disappeared, he simply ignored the guy to focus on me.
What game where you flipped town are you talking about? Also, what kind of a weak self-meta argument is this? Just because you might have said something similar in a previous game as town does not mean I now 'know' you are town because you're acting the same. But just because you have to remind people of this, shows you're scum.
This is ridiculous, are you trying to smear me? That's not what I meant at all.
1)On-going game, can't talk.
2)I never said you should instanly consider me town for making the very same argument in two different games, let me try to elaborate more on your reaction for the same thing in both games.
DRey1: I disagree with lynching Wessel D1.
Wessel: Ok.
DRey2: I disagree with lynching Wessel D1.
Wessel: OMG, what a forced, non-genuine post! clearly he's scum, vote: DRey
Two different responses to the very same argument, that's what I'm talking about, cognitive dissonance. Also I've never said I'm town just because I'm saying the very same thing I've said in a previous game as town. That's certainly ridiculous as anyone could post the very same thing as scum to never be lynched. I'm saying Wessel knows I say those kind of things as town, his reaction is totally unnatural of him, plus he has said a very similar thing and thinks it's fine when he says it, but when I say it's an absurd. That's scummy.
You said you will never lynch me on D1. On the one hand that's garbage because you can never know if a time comes you think I'm actually scum, that's obvious. But more importantly, you're trying to play into my feelings of 'DRey would never lynch me D1, and apparently we are alike (he says so himself), so I shouldn't lynch him either?'
This is baffling really. I'm not trying to make you feel pity of me or trying to make you feel bad for voting me because we think alike, we are playing mafia, not in kindergarden. Just so we are on the same boat:
a)YOU CANNOT SAY MY FEELINGS ARE GARBAGE BECAUSE I'M THE ONLY ONE THAT KNOW HOW I FEEL. You can say I'm lying and stuff, but it's your opinion against mine, I know I'm being truthful as it's about me we are talking about so we will have to agree to disagree here.
EWP: btw this is mafia, I know you have to push for mislynches for craptastic reasons because you are scum and that's has nothing to do with your real feelings, in fact I sincerely hope you are scum because it would disappoint me greatly if you really meant what you are saying.
You're so inconsistent. You're attacking me for 'deflecting' from DeathJoey onto Lord_McDonalds, but am I then not also deflecting from you at the same time according to your view? Why are you trying so much to link me to DeathJoey?
Huh? are you a politician or something? I've reread what I said and I still can't understand your response, as this has nothing to do with my statement.
It's also of note how much you don't want to be linked to DJ. If that was not clear enough, I think you are both scum.
Are you serious? We would learn more by looking at the interactions (or lack thereof) from others. Not just from looking at Lord_McDonalds' posts. Are you actually trying to play this game?
I can't believe you believe in that for a second, are you really trying to push "lynching the player with 4 posts and zero interations is certainly the way to go for town, it leads to many things". You are not a newbie Wessel, are you actually trying to play this game? Lynching a lurker at that point would bring town nowhere, it's particularly interesting you disagree lynching DJ since his lynch at that point of time would clearly benefit town much more because of the tons of info we would gather comparing to zero info we would get from LMD.
Wh-what? If I am town, there's no way to know if he is cop, sure. But as scum, I also wouldn't know if he was cop. So why this nonsense attack? He could be cop, just as anyone else can be cop. He could be cop, just as he could be vanilla town or scum. Why even bring this up, other than try to paint me as scum?
Nice misrep. Is anyone actually reading those posts? If you are reading please put a food in the subject of your next post to demonstrate you are actually reading. I'm not saying "Wessel is scum because he knows LMD is cop/vanilla" at all, I'm saying "Wessel is scum because his mentality is: LMD is disposable no matter what he is, let's just lynch him." This is not a town mentality, no mislynches are ever good for town, it's our duty to scumhunt and actually try to find scum, not just "let's lynch the lowest poster for no reason and hope for the best".
a) Because I didn't think DeathJoey did anything noteworthy there, but Nyxu was quick to attack DJ for nothing.
b) Because I accepted Nyxu's reasoning, and found a town motivation behind it.
C) I have already given my reasoning (don't lie, DRey).
1)Nyx didn't attack DJ for nothing, you keeping repeating this won't make this true, but it's good to see you are still deflecting from DJ.
2)Funny how quickly found a town motivation for Nyx actions after the whole town has demonstrated DJ was the loser of that "battle", trying to jump away from the sinking ship much? The best part is that I've started to suspect you are scum exactly because of that. Your "read" of the situation was the opposite of mine.
3)"DJ actions could be indicative of scum, or town, it's a null tell really" is not reasoning, in fact your name from now one will be mr. fencesit extraordinaire.
Wait. Did drey just say cop?
Did drey Seriously just use the "could be cop" statement?
Keeping my dj vote but jegus. fos DRey for making the could be cop argument. Why would you specifically insinuate that lmd could be cop?
I... don't understand what's your point. I'm not saying LMD is a cop, cop is just a word I randomly choose for any kind of power role. It's kinda funny becase when I first wrote that I choose another role, but I decided it would be better to keep talking about that cop just in case, for obvious reasons.
Really not liking DRey at the moment. His recent interactions with Wessel shows that DRey is in his own little world. I'm baffled at some of the accusations against Wessel.
I'm waiting to see how DRey responds to Wessel before I place my vote.
And here goes my hopes. After all those games haven't you learned nothing Void? If there's one you should be putting your vote on is Wessel.
This is terrible. Why are you defending yourself while attempting to attack Wessel? Also, just because you have done something as town before does not preclude your doing the same thing as scum. We(ssel) can't know anything about your alignment as town.
Oh look, this again. Maybe I really need to improve my english. Anyway, that was totally not my point.
Now, if Archae were to come in and explain further his reasoning, we could have more to work with and my opinion could change. Call me self-aware but I feel that my opinion of Wessel from our early interactions (his voting me, responding to my argument, and then accepting it and unvoting me), may have led me to a degree of confirmation bias that we simply cannot afford.
This post got me a little confused as I don't actually remember what's your opinion about Wessel is after all. Can you reveal to us what is, for posterity please?
I have no willpower as of now to answer so many non-sensical things you have said, but saying "I'm scum" is a big scumtell, and it's impressing why haven't you been lynched yet for this "jokes", as it's the second time in this game you say you are scum (if I remember well), I prefer a lynch on Wessel but just so everyone is aware I'm perfectly fine with a lynch on you too.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
And they say I'm the one with bad arguments... This is just terrible.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Oh look, this again. Maybe I really need to improve my english. Anyway, that was totally not my point.
Okay, what was the point then? Is this something specific between you and Wessel? To the rest of us, the post clearly reads as you giving a self-meta argument.
Why are you bored, Drey?
If we're quicklynching someone, it should be Misting for outing hinself.
I have my eye on Nyxu too, highest poster by far, could be covering for lurking scumbuddies. Could be cop. We don't know yet.
Alternatively, Bebo, Lord Mcdonalds, and popsucker lurking scumteam?
Please quote the posts where you saw the vindictiveness.
Why is town not capable of doing the same?
Don’t worry about terminology. It’s slightly different from player to player IMO. I wasn’t challenging the diction choice. I was merely wondering what you saw.
I never said that or meant that... I am no way near most of the frequent mafia players here, I was just saying to Wes before that I have some of the most experience by looking at the player list in THIS game.
And i'm saying that a PBPA this early is so irrelevant it hurts.
Its being thrown against you because its silly
What you are saying is that he acted the same way in rvs as another game. So what? Its rvs and nobody cares about it. What you are doing is grasping at straws.
Well, a vote wouldn't have seen him getting lynched and it would just have provided pressure.
What was the point of going to all that work you did so you can just FoS? So then someone else says "Yeah I agree with you, vote DJ" and then you jump on because its moving.
Not good.
Points of particular interest are bolded by me. So early in the game, I did not like this tone of aggression.
A townie is certainly capable of being aggressive, but here it felt too much like pushing an early bandwagon for a lynch, especially since Nyxu is now a strong town candidate. I fell like town aggression is acceptable in this form when in pursuit of a non-responsive target or other such evasive poster.
To tired to do more than this at the moment. Thoughts on the current situation will come later.
Okay, what was the point then? Is this something specific between you and Wessel? To the rest of us, the post clearly reads as you giving a self-meta argument.
I've already addressed that at lengths in my post to Wessel and I know you have read it in fact the only one so far.
Actually, I meant it more like I was not confident on either of my reads, so it would be more bothersome if DeathJoey or DRey mislynched rather than if Lord_McDonalds was mislynched (who IMO was not as good a player as DJ or DRey).
If I was a good player you would already be dead. Mafia it's so frustrating at times, I don't think I've ever convinced anyone of my reads in my games except when I was wrong (for obvious reasons).
So I would no longer like a Lord_McDonalds lynch (if he was still in the game).
OK, so you give an argument why I should see him as scum, but you don't see him as such?
Why should I see him as scum? I saw no scumminess in his 3 posts, maybe I'm not as good as you that can detect scum so fast.
In fact I'm now leaning town on Vitek mostly because of you.
No. There's a difference between using in-game arguments not to lynch someone (like if you think someone is town, or if you're unsure about one's alignment). However, your statement that you would never lynch me because I'm a good player is firstly absurd, and secondly sounds like you're trying to get on my good side (and trying to influence in not lynching you).
Cute, but you didn't think it was absurd in that other game... neither pushed for my lynch. There will ever be an explanation for this inconsistency? Also I couldn't careless about your opinion about me, because you are scum.
Well, you keep saying I deflect from DeathJoey because I preferred to lynch Lord_McD instead of him. But I also preferred to lynch Lord_McD instead of you. Why do you call me out for deflecting from DJ and not for deflecting from you?
You are reaching. I'm not saying you deflected from DJ just because you wanted to see LMD dead, it's the way you did it that makes a world of difference. First you attacked Nyx for attacking DJ for legittimate reasons, then after the ship was sinking you started to buddy up to Nyx and tried to paint DJ fishing as a nulltell, next LMD suddenly turned into being the best choice for lynch because... he was not doing anything? Therefore was an expendable player, if that's not clear deflection I don't what this is.
Also I fail to see how you should be accused of deflecting from me, since you are pushing for my lynch. Or am I misunderstanding something?
The way people have posted about their views on Lord_McDonalds, including the posts since my proposal for his lynch, have already given much views from people regarding LMD. Now if he had been lynched, we would learn from all that info.
So "the posts since your proposal" already gave us enough information right? Ok, let's make a little game, let's consider LMD was lynched D1, flipped town and we are now D2. Show me (with quotes if possible) the stances on all players about him and where does that leave us.
Anyway, at the time I made that proposal, a deadline was nearing, and the game was going nowhere. So I preferred to get it going by just lynching someone (and Lord_McDonalds was in that case my preferred player to lose).
And again you are saying you wanted to lynch LMD not because he was scum, but because he was the weakest player, and not a big deal to lose = scum mindset, now please get lynched.
2) What? Now you're saying I was trying to jump ship? You're really trying to grasp any argument you can get to attack me, aren't you? Anyway, of course it's not true.
I'm saying that for the longest time, and saying "of course it's not true" isn't a proper defense.
3) Again, I said DJ's 'cop post' was in my opinion a null tell because it happens in both alignments. I'm not calling him scum for it, I'm not calling him town for it. I just disregard it as an argument. I'm not fencesitting on this matter, I just ignore this argument.
Heh, if there was a dictionary of mafia terms I would submit the bolded as the very definition of fencesitting.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I'm saying Wessel knows I say those kind of things as town, his reaction is totally unnatural of him, plus he has said a very similar thing and thinks it's fine when he says it, but when I say it's an absurd.
So, to answer my own question, it is something specific to you and Wessel. Is that correct? I ask because your response conflates both the you-giving-a-self-meta-argument and Wessel-showing-cognitive-dissonance things, which makes it hard to understand, especially if the content matter is limited to you and Wessel.
Because that was a big stretch, grasping at straws as Nyx said.
Explain how.
@Prophylaxis
It has been over a week since you said you would '[detail] everything'. I read that to mean you would give your thoughts on many of the things that have happened so far. Either way, I'd like to hear more from you.
That's one way to look at it, but let me ask you a one more question:
Would the scum want questions asked to them in order to appear more town?
I'm sure a more experienced scum would prefer to be asked questions. They have the playskill to turn the attacks around. A less experienced scum, however, wouldn't be able to do that, and as such would prefer to remain under the radar.
I've not played Mafia on MTGSally very much, so I don't know everyone as well as others do. I do not know how experienced DJ is so I don't know which category he'd fall into.
Also, Void, I seem to have forgotten to respond to this from an earlier post of your's:
Do you believe that the others player would remain quiet if that had happened? If yes, then please explain in detail.
It refers to my idea that DeathJoey would try to go invisible if he could get Nyxu to stop attacking him. And if he were able to continue providing content, but in a different manner he might be able to get away with it. Is there a specific reason you left this out of your response to my theories?
Here it is again. You are telling people how you feel, but backtracking yourself into saying, maybe I am wrong. Like you are covering yourself should anyone want to dispute you, before they even have a chance.
When I point something out and say that, it is what I feel. I'm not certain about it, so I indicated that. And although I wasn't sure, I still felt, and feel, that it was important enough to warrant the Town's attention, so I presented it to them.
DRey outright disputed you on this, yet you didnt follow up on this. Why ?
Have I posted since the post you were quoting? Silly me, must've been sleep-scumhunting again. In all seriousness, I've been swamped for the past few days, and walls of text are harder to catch-up on.
Here you are again, fence sitting. You never actually address DeathJoey again, yet you are not sure about him. In fact I re-read the entire thread and you only ask one direct question the entire game. Here :
I said that to say that no townie would search for the cop on Day 1. I wasn't referring to myself, but townies in general.
When you say you don't like my posts now, is there a specific point after which you stopped liking them, or do you just not like my posts since you've read the thread?
Which even here feels like you are just trying to set up defense for yourself without actually pressuring anybody. Also, when proph calls you out on saying "from a town perspective", you give the defense of not referring to yourself, but never actually say you are town. Why?
I didn't need to interact with DeathJoey, until my semi-case that is, since I was just watching his interactions with others.
Yes, I was preparing a proactive defense. Proph voted me, I wanted to know why he had voted me so I could do my best to give him reason to unvote me. There's no need for a vote to be spent on someone useless.
And I apologize for thinking that blatant declarations of "I'M TOWN!" seem scummy to me. To me, it is assumed that every player claims he or she is town, so they don't need to declare it to defend themselves, they need to provide evidence that convinces the other players that they are.
EWP: I realize that my response just above this comes very close to me declaring I'm town. I couldn't think of a way to answer his question that didn't involve it in some degree.
Even Wessel here notices you are implying things, but never actually moving on them, and like I said I didnt see you re-address DeathJoey at any point in the game after this.
Yes, Wessel noticed someone else's post about me, a post which I replied to with a valid answer.
Once more, do I have to interact with DJ personally to gain info on him?
I bolded the two suspicious parts. Again both of them you are giving vague opinions on the players, without actually ever making a commitment, or following up on your reads and making a case or asking questions.
My reads aren't strong enough to warrant much. That's just how I feel given the vibe of each of those player's posts. I explained DeathJoey, and I feel that my feelings towards DRey (At least at that point,) were almost self-explanatory. If you would like I can put together a better case against him that that one line of text.
So basically I feel like you are outing yourself with your quote. You have around 12 actual posts in the game and none of them contain anything towards helping us scumhunt. All of the posts are wait and see, non-committal style. Sliding under the radar and not drawing too much attention to yourself while posting just enough to have your name seen every page or two. Therefor by your reasoning alone, that the scum would be doing this, and this does seem like it is what you are doing I
vote 22bebo
I have one question, if that was what I had intended, why would I come out of the woodwork now? Judging by people's reactions to me before this, and even now to a degree, I seem to be on the low end of people's radars, as either scum or town. What would I gain from posting now?
He just seems to disregard a lot of the accusations thrown at him by Nyxu as tunneling, which they may in fact be, but I just don't feel he's tried to explain his actions as much as he says.
The linky arrow will take you to the post where I listed them. If you'd like more, I can go and fetch them.
These can be answered by reading into my motives.
Or was this directed at Nyxu?
If you personally saw something that required following up, why are you trying to get someone else to do it for you?
It was directed at you.
What I saw was you ignoring something Nyxu said, which, had he said it to me, I would've responded to.
This is getting ridiculous, why no one is posting? It feels like there's just three or so people playing atm, we need a lynch or something to get town of this torpor. Ok, everyone that's not voting please provide your reads and vote. I'm voting Wessel because he's scum for countless reasons already provided.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
@mod please prod or replace the lurkers, this game needs strict moderation or it will become a replace fest like the other basics.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
unvote, vote DRey
More to come within the next twelve hours. Need to find the time to compile and finalize my opinion on the current game state. If anyone feels I may miss their question or has something in particular they want addressed please inform me as such.
This is getting ridiculous, why no one is posting? It feels like there's just three or so people playing atm, we need a lynch or something to get town of this torpor. Ok, everyone that's not voting please provide your reads and vote. I'm voting Wessel because he's scum for countless reasons already provided.
Weren't you just getting on Wessel for this same exact thing?
Preface: This took a lot more reading and writing than I thought it would. Fortunately I gave myself a deadline I wouldn't have to go back in time to meet.
This will more or less be a complete gamestate readthrough, but to avoid significant walling I will be using the post numbers instead of block quote. Color code will be simple enough. Orange leans scum, Cyan leans town. Red scum, Blue town. Individual, noteworthy posts will be given shallow-read coding when possible and minor commentary unless a more detailed response / comment is needed. Following this will be my overview and overall reads.
Deathjoey : Post 23, ~nyoron breadcrumb
Deathjoey : Post 27, Past tense.
Wessel : Post 35, Begins the actual case against me for the Nyx V DJ. Unable to properly gauge a read on this
Misting: Post 37, applies pressure on a flailing me.
Deathjoey : Post 50, Generally !constructive post, declares again his RVS scumteam, and addresses someone (me?) as the cop.
Pinkfloyd : Post 51, Direct question to Joey asked.
parinoid : Post 53, Similar question to P51 asked of Joey.
Deathjoey: Post 54, Answers P51 with a question. Phrasing indicates that DJ does not dispute trying to label someone as a cop.
Deathjoey : Post 55, ~nyoron. Answers P53 with what appears to be ignorance of the game setup as described in Mod Post
Deathjoey : Post 57, Rephrases question to be more direct, indicates that labeling was meant to spark discussion, calls into question Pinkfloyd's character.
parinoid : Post 59, Question asked to Deathjoey
DRey : Post 62, Address The Masses. Promises reads
Lord_McDonalds: Post 64, Question asked to Deathjoey.
Wessel : Post 65, Continues to question my motivations, looking for explanations on specific points of concern. Raises questions against other individuals. Shows indicators that he is not deadset on Nyx=Scum. Question asked to Deathjoey.
Misting : Post 66, Declares DJ statements null tell. This is of note insofar as this appears to be the first declaration as such. Begins case against DRey
Archae : Post 67, draws attention to Wessel's odd behaviour of defending "players whom you paint in a suspicious light."
Wessel : Post 69, Unvote made, little other content. Initially, I saw this as "your reasoning is sound." I continue to see it as such.
Deathjoey : Post 70, Some thumbs-upping without any kind of supporting statements or new information. Answers Wessel's P64
Archae : Post 71, Question asked to Deathjoey
Deathjoey : Post 73, Deathjoey answers Archae P71.
DRey : Post 76, Calls Wessel a good player, makes some comments, presents his reads. Reads are Town: Nyx based on 'liking his posts overall'. Language indicates that he liked me for town before P62, but had minor doubts that were clarified in subsequent posts. Scum: Wessel for "crap reasons" and "... trying to "trap" players..." DJ for fishing cops. Of note, calls Wessel a good player, then says he "expected much more" from Wessel.
Deathjoey : Post 78, ~nyoron.
Wessel : Post 80, explains his reason for unvoting me. Question asked of Deathjoey.
Deathjoey : Post 83, ~nyoron. Answers Wessel's P80
Nyxu : Post 106 : Addresses Deathjoey, requesting more content
Wessel : Post 102, encourages activity in game.
Mindslavor : Post 107, direct question asked to Deathjoey.
Deathjoey : Post 108, Answers P106, tells me to stop tunneling, says he's "contributed plenty of content". Answers P107
Wessel : Post 117, marks DRey as a potential suspect.
Wessel : Post 121, "Thinking about voting LMD". Indicates DJ's earlygame as null tell.
Archae : Post 122, Slightly obscured, but question presented to DJ
DRey : Post 139, Asks if Wessel is deflecting from DJ. Calls wessel a good player again.
DRey : Post 140, Says that Wessel's "who is for and who is against LMD lynch" bit is "the kind of "scummy" post [DRey] would do." because he "like[s] the spotlight and being pressured when [he's] scum" Language indicates that he believes that this is a town move. Asks Wessel a question, then quotes an older post and responds as if it was meant to answer a new question.
Deathjoey : Post 151, cites avoiding of questions and hints of not paying attention to the thread as reasons for DRey being scum. These same factors are present in Deathjoey.
22bebo : Post 175, The first time I read this I actually wondered if he was trying to get me to chime in Re: Deathjoey again
DRey : 186 Outright adhom on Deathjoey. His self-meta.. argument? is a gnarled mass of confusing statements that I can't even paraphrase. Question asked to Deathjoey.
Mindslavor : Post 192, Question asked to Deathjoey.
22bebo : Post 203, highlights more sections of my posts that he feels are not fully answered by Deathjoey.
DRey : Post 207, If he doesn't want to lynch LMD, why would he validate his vote? Gauging the player base. Functions off an assumption (LMD ragequitting)
Deathjoey : Post 226, more or less repeats himself inside a large block post #whosaidwehadacop;] Ignores specifics highlighted by 22bebo in P203. Answers P186 and P192
Nyxu : Post 228, Question presented to Deathjoey
DRey : Post 230, using an ongoing game for his arguments? None of this sits well with me. Ad-homish statements, reaching argument re: Wessel's reaction to being told he's deflecting equating to specifically wanting not to be linked with Deathjoey. What are the "Obvious Reasons" that DRey refers to re: his use of #couldbecop
DRey : Post 238, "If I was a good player you would already be dead" More references to what he said was an ongoing game. Misappropriates the DJ #couldbecop = nulltell from RVS to having started with Wessel
22bebo : Post 241, It kinda does feel like you're trying to get me to at least keep an eye DJ. You're making sure to point out things that he missed that you would have responded to yourself.
@DRey: my initial opinion of Wessel was that he was a strong town player, though it was primarily from his voting, pressuring, then subsequently unvoting me when he was satisfied with my argument. My current opinion is that he is a strong, inquisitve player with town leanings, but, like everyone in this game, is not above suspicion.
And now, Reads.
22bebo : No read on him. I'm confused as to his motivations against DJ Archae : Inquisitive, but hasn't been on my radar very much Deathjoey This is slowly trending out of orange. Points for Breadcrumbs. His posts, however, feel almost minimalist, and he's got a few unanswered questions waiting. Drey : Spiraling out of control. Vitek r.[s]Lord Mcdonalds[/s] : Little to go off of as yet. Misting nyxu : The only known factor is oneself. I unashamedly declare myself town. parinoid : This is a weak read, but his posts and insights have seemed pro-town. Void r.[s]pinkfloyd[/s] HIGHLY inquisitive right out of the gates, has seemed strong so far. Mindslavor r. [s]Popsucker[/s] : I have little read on him, unfortunately. Prophylaxis : I've seen little posting from him as yet. No read. Wessel : See above.
So, with DRey now the frontrunner for the Noose, I'd like to see a calm, concise defense that isn't built around putting someone else in the noose first.
This is getting ridiculous, why no one is posting? It feels like there's just three or so people playing atm, we need a lynch or something to get town of this torpor. Ok, everyone that's not voting please provide your reads and vote. I'm voting Wessel because he's scum for countless reasons already provided.
My reads will be coming, as some are still forming. Until then, if you're bored, you can respond to my question and demand here.
Would you please reword this for me? I'm having difficulty understanding what it's asking.
After I posted you asked me the quoted question along with a few others. I responded to those, and not to it on accident. You didn't ask me why, and I'm wondering if you had a reason for it.
EBWODP: Sorry, walls of text, I'll do my best to read them, but I'll let you guys know I'm going on vacation for a little more than a week tomorrow. I think I'll have wi-fi for the first few days at least, and after that I'm not sure. If I can, I'll post to let you know. Don't wait on me, unless you feel it necessary to do such.
After I posted you asked me the quoted question along with a few others. I responded to those, and not to it on accident. You didn't ask me why, and I'm wondering if you had a reason for it.
Much better.
No reason other than I sometimes forget to look back and see if questions have been answered. More so, when the one responding appeared to had answered them all.
I get that it has, but I have given what I feel is a credible reason as to why, and taken every opportunity to answer questions addressed at me, and attempt to help in the scumhunt. I dont feel 22bebo has once actually helped scumhunt, just occasionally provide some insights that are real generalizations. I feel his lack of helping the town makes him scum.
I dont see what this has to do with me, this is my case against you. And I had already made my reasons known against the person who accused me. You have done little do qualm my suspicions.
I've been swamped for the past few days, and walls of text are harder to catch-up on.
This could be, but it could also be as someone put it to me "lurky-lurky" wait and see type mentality. Especially since DRey is hot under the knife right now. Your lack of posting wont garner much attention since he has to make a case and is the focal point.
Proph voted me, I wanted to know why he had voted me so I could do my best to give him reason to unvote me. There's no need for a vote to be spent on someone useless.
But is it better then not voting at all? I mean, are you not scum-hunting? Because if you are not, that means you are scum correct? Also why was it useless?
I have one question, if that was what I had intended, why would I come out of the woodwork now? Judging by people's reactions to me before this, and even now to a degree, I seem to be on the low end of people's radars, as either scum or town. What would I gain from posting now?
If you were scum, I feel you wouldnt come out of the woodwork, you would take a wait and see approach. But not answering my questions would seem even more scummy. The only way to make yourself seem town would be to answer the questions and provide reasons you shouldnt be voted. Do you feel you have done that?
We have agreed upon one thing, that's nothing strange and doesn't mean anything. You shouldn't "declare" players town because they agree with you on some minor point.
I am opposed to mass-claim on most occasions, it's my personal preference. Does it mean anyone who is against mass-claim should I regard as town?
I didnt declare you town. I recall saying leaning in my phrasing. The fact that we agree isnt the only reason, but with so little to go off of, having you being a replacement, it is a start.
I addressed him, and addressed this when parinoid initially brought it up. I dont feel the need to address the same question, perhaps if you or Archae had a new one?
oog
That said, I go back on swing shifts tomorrow. I work 7a-7p Fri, Sat, Sun, I also TO my LGS FNM Fri from 7p-1a. I have Monday off, then work 7p-7a Tues, Weds and Thurs. Despite Monday being an off day, I have to turn around my internal clock, so my apologies if I am not here as much.
No, there is no reason why Monday is actually spelled, and the other days are shortened ;-)
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Formerly Mindslavor Visit Rivenor for all of the Academy's awesome artwork.
I am saying when you call someone scum, or say they are scummy, whether they are or not is slanderous.
You and I have different conceptions of the meaning of slander(ous), then.
But is it better then not voting at all? I mean, are you not scum-hunting? Because if you are not, that means you are scum correct? Also why was it useless?
I don't follow the line of logic there. Nor do I understand why you would ask a rhetorical question that begets WIFOM.
If you were scum, I feel you wouldnt come out of the woodwork, you would take a wait and see approach. But not answering my questions would seem even more scummy. The only way to make yourself seem town would be to answer the questions and provide reasons you shouldnt be voted. Do you feel you have done that?
Again, this only promotes WIFOM. Do you see that? If so, was that your intention?
Ach.. Just noticed so Doubleposting.
Also. Please note. DJ puts a lot of suspicion in what is coming off as a consistently noncomittal manner on DRey, then in his last statement (or question) insinuates that Wessel knows that not only he (DJ) will flip town, but DRey will also flip town.
DJ, would you kindly explain this nonconformity in your argument?
noncommittal? do I come off that way?
I was wondering about his word choice, using the word "WHEN" for drey and I
WHEN we flip town, instead of IF... as if he knew we were going to flip town,
but he has explained this in his post.
Two different responses to the very same argument, that's what I'm talking about, cognitive dissonance. Also I've never said I'm town just because I'm saying the very same thing I've said in a previous game as town. That's certainly ridiculous as anyone could post the very same thing as scum to never be lynched. I'm saying Wessel knows I say those kind of things as town, his reaction is totally unnatural of him, plus he has said a very similar thing and thinks it's fine when he says it, but when I say it's an absurd. That's scummy.
2)Wessel says he's voting me because I'm not being truthful, but there's a big problem with that. He knows I'm telling the truth because I've said the very same thing in another game about him and flipped town, heck I think I've said this in a lot of previous games as I usually find Wessel's insights good.
I'm telling the truth, because I'm saying the same thing in a previous game as town. That's certainly ridiculous, as anyone could post the very same thing as scum to never be doubted.
EWP: btw this is mafia, I know you have to push for mislynches for craptastic reasons because you are scum and that's has nothing to do with your real feelings, in fact I sincerely hope you are scum because it would disappoint me greatly if you really meant what you are saying.
You are scum, and you're doing this because you are scum, and I hope you're scum, because you are scum and I have no idea what you were trying to achieve.
Nice misrep. Is anyone actually reading those posts? If you are reading please put a food in the subject of your next post to demonstrate you are actually reading. I'm not saying "Wessel is scum because he knows LMD is cop/vanilla" at all, I'm saying "Wessel is scum because his mentality is: LMD is disposable no matter what he is, let's just lynch him." This is not a town mentality, no mislynches are ever good for town, it's our duty to scumhunt and actually try to find scum, not just "let's lynch the lowest poster for no reason and hope for the best".
Are -YOU- reading these posts?
I can't even call this a strawman, as your last line has nothing to do with the argument at hand.
His argument was, neither side have any way of telling if LMD is a cop.
You take this as... LMD is a lurker, and disposable...
Accusing him of misrepping?
I... don't understand what's your point. I'm not saying LMD is a cop, cop is just a word I randomly choose for any kind of power role. It's kinda funny becase when I first wrote that I choose another role, but I decided it would be better to keep talking about that cop just in case, for obvious reasons.
And yet you called me out on this earlier for the same reason?
And what are these "obvious reasons" of yours? Or were you going to wait for someone to just give you an answer.
I have no willpower as of now to answer so many non-sensical things you have said, but saying "I'm scum" is a big scumtell, and it's impressing why haven't you been lynched yet for this "jokes", as it's the second time in this game you say you are scum (if I remember well), I prefer a lynch on Wessel but just so everyone is aware I'm perfectly fine with a lynch on you too.
You said earlier that you weren't avoiding questions, and that you'd answer my points.
Please explain why you think my post is non-sensical. And address what I've said in response to you in it.
I'm sure a more experienced scum would prefer to be asked questions. They have the playskill to turn the attacks around. A less experienced scum, however, wouldn't be able to do that, and as such would prefer to remain under the radar.
I've not played Mafia on MTGSally very much, so I don't know everyone as well as others do. I do not know how experienced DJ is so I don't know which category he'd fall into.
Somewhere in between, I liked to be asked questions, and I like to be under the radar, I'm only a moderately experienced scum.
What I saw was you ignoring something Nyxu said, which, had he said it to me, I would've responded to.
I felt that I had answered that already.
When he said that to me, I said that for some people, it could be a meta tell, if their posting style changes drastically, but otherwise, not something I would use as a tell.
As Nyxu said, you're pointing things out to him that you could've either asked yourself, and makes it look like you don't want to be caught asking me those things.
Now, I was planning on voting DRey, but he is at L-2...
I'm planning on putting him to L-1 after his claim.
No objections? Good.
Heh, to clarify, I haven't ignored your questions because you haven't made any (this will be of importance later). Knowing you want me o comment on your statements I will gladly do.
What I said was that much of the time I phrase the things I want answered as statements. However, I have asked you questions (You even responded to one), and statements like "Explain please" are basically the same thing. Which, I note, you still have not responded to. I've given you the benefit of the doubt since you were engaged with Wessel, but now...
It's a long story, go read Mean Girls please. In fact I suspect replacers way more than lurkers.
Heh, this is the first time I'm being attacked for being "helpful", so you believe helpful players are scummy huh? That means I'm always scummy because I'm always trying to help players.
I'm always down to lynch some replacers, but Void is an useful player to have, he's experienced and always active meaning even if he's scum he will help us catch his teamates.
Before you discout a someone's scumtell, let's just remember who likes to lynch replacers.
3)The bolded is the most interesting one, because you've never mentioned it before neither asked me any question I've missed. You are just repeating a thing Misting has said that even he admitted to be wrong. Therefore trying to deflect on me for bogus reasons. The best part is while I'm suddenly the biggest suspect in your opinion, you refuse to vote on me, why are you afraid to vote me DJ?
Good catch, in fact it's not, but I have lurkers with a passion, they make games slow, people lose interest, they are hard to read, and even if they die and flip scum it's hard for town to analyse their interactions (the best way to scumhunt imho), plus I've lost games to lurkers before (Modern family for example).
So you hate lurkers, but proposing a lynch on one is not okay? Not only that, but he is a replacer. But you say:
Why should I see him as scum? I saw no scumminess in his 3 posts, maybe I'm not as good as you that can detect scum so fast.
In fact I'm now leaning town on Vitek mostly because of you.
What's up with that inconsistency? Why is it that you have these beliefs, but then throw them out the window when Wessel acts?
Exactly this, a vote throwed can't be erased, it goes for posterity, if I'm lynched or NKed people will know I'm town and the ones who voted me will look bad. The fact that you both:
a)Says I'm your biggest suspect
b)Yet refuses to vote me, afraid of the repercussions of badwagoning me.
Proves you have inside information. You know I'm town, you know you will look bad when I flip if you had heavy participation in my lynch (like being the first voter on my wagon that you are afraid of :rolleyes:) therefore you are trying to avoid voting me because of that, maybe waiting to see if my wagon will pick up steam before commiting into it.
Town votes on their biggest suspect, if you don't vote your biggest suspect who do you want to lynch? the second biggest suspect? your towniest read? It makes no sense if you are town and that's because you are not one, you are scum.
This argument can be used on anyone who has not voted. People have their own habits for voting. Just because someone does not vote the second they have suspicion, does not mean they are scum.
And again you are saying you wanted to lynch LMD not because he was scum, but because he was the weakest player, and not a big deal to lose = scum mindset, now please get lynched.
It's only as scummy a mindset as the situation warrants. I've seen plenty of times when the town under deadline picks a lurker/non-valuable player to pressure and lynch if all else fails. What happens in this situation is that this porvokes discussion, and a better target does present itself. In this case, you.
I'm saying that for the longest time, and saying "of course it's not true" isn't a proper defense.
Can you please quote the first time you bring this up?
DRey's recent actions have not given me a reason to unvote him. His argument with Wessel is so dependant on meta from an ongoing game that I just don't wnat to get into it. Taking that out of the equation, he is still the most likely scum to me. Time for a claim, though I don't predict it doing much good.
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Moving on, I reviewed Mindslavor's game, and I am less than inspired by it. Of particular interest to me is when he says things like:
Really, you are calling him out for me overly helpful? This seems more scummy then his actual act to me. Feelings like your reaching for reasons because the heat is still on you.
I see this as a misrepresentation of DJ's motives. It is a weak connection of two things to fabricate a scummy reason for DJ's read.
This could be, but it could also be as someone put it to me "lurky-lurky" wait and see type mentality. Especially since DRey is hot under the knife right now. Your lack of posting wont garner much attention since he has to make a case and is the focal point.
Are you really discounting someone's reasonable explanation for the scummiest option? Again, this is conecting two things (His lack of posting and DRey's spotlight) to arrive at the scummiest possible motivation.
I addressed him, and addressed this when parinoid initially brought it up. I dont feel the need to address the same question, perhaps if you or Archae had a new one?
I've got one. Is calling something a null-tell the same as fence-sitting in your mind?
One last question, directed at Void: What is your opinion of how a scum thinks and acts in regard to questions?
Well, seems DRey is at effective l-1 with dj's intention stated. I'd like to see a claim and a defense from him, as well as statements from the dissenting minority. Let's not have a lynch with people on the sidelines not voicing their opinions on it.
I wanted to hear more from Porphylaxis first, but I suppose things are progressing with DRey and I may not otherwise get a chance.
First, Wessel was the foremost suspect in my mind, so I am having issues with this whole DRey v. Wessel thing that has been the center of the game. I cannot imagine that those two are on a scumteam together - so in my mind, either one of them is scum or neither is scum. DRey's play has been pretty darn bad, with terrible reasoning, appeals to emotion, and bad attacks. I wanted to hear his/her explanation of why my pointing out something was 'grasping at straws', because I think s/he doesn't actually have a reason and was just repeating what Nyxu said. Still, I have my worries surrounding Wessel; s/he would be a bigger worry to me as scum, since many seem to think Wessel is far-and-away town. Then again, if DRey is lynched and flips town, taking a fresh look at Wessel should be in order.
Vitek has been pretty good, and allays a lot of my original suspicion on Lord_McDonalds. Similarly, I don't think parinoid is scum, despite his recent absence. It bothers me that Prophylaxis is still in this game, and I have next to no way to read him/her. Hopefully there is a very good reason for the lack of posting.
Mindslavor is my other favorite for scum, for reasons that should be evident. I see Nyxu and Misting as the most townie players, adding parinoid and Vitek to those that are leaning town. I haven't seen anything to make me question Void or 22bebo yet, so, by process of elimination, I think I should take a much closer read on Deathjoey.
That's pretty much where my thoughts are right now - this game has been a little tough for me with the lurking levels, players replacing out early, and the fragmented discussion in the thread.
One last question, directed at Void: What is your opinion of how a scum thinks and acts in regard to questions?
My opinion is it really depends on how comfortable the player is as scum.
Kpaca, who has many completed games, is very comfortable as scum and tends to pull off these extreme risky gambits while being questioned relentlessly.
Fluffyn00b, who has about 5 completed games on this site, is rather timid and would want to avoid confrontation.
I would gladly grab you some more referrences if you want them.
I've come down with a nasty Viral Infection. I don't expect this to hinder my posting.
I got the prod and am catching up.
A once over has me:
- agreeing with Drey being run-up. Nyxu's assessment of him is perhaps the most apt.
- reluctantly feeling better about DJ. I haven't seen any more indicators from him and one bad action shouldn't damn someone.
- thinking Vitek's looking good. Replacing for a lurker had me leery, but his posts have me thinking that he has the town's interests at heart.
- pretty much /barn'ing everything Archae said about Mindslavor.
My opinion is it really depends on how comfortable the player is as scum.
Kpaca, who has many completed games, is very comfortable as scum and tends to pull off these extreme risky gambits while being questioned relentlessly.
Fluffyn00b, who has about 5 completed games on this site, is rather timid and would want to avoid confrontation.
I would gladly grab you some more referrences if you want them.
I've come down with a nasty Viral Infection. I don't expect this to hinder my posting.
Okay, so does anyone in this game fall into the more experienced category?
Okay, so does anyone in this game fall into the more experienced category?
Hope you get better soon!:)
One again it depends on the opinion of "experienced".
I would consider Wessel and DRey the two most experienced players as Scum in this game followed by myself. But as for how experienced, as in good we are, then Wessel would be the top dog IMO followed by DRey, then myself.
Granted I do have 6 completed scum games, but I was alive for maybe 100 posts in about 3 of them.
Take it for what is you believe it is worth.
Wessel and DRey
I wouldn't mind if you two gave your opinions on this, if you want to of course.
Is this just a note to yourself or are you calling for my lynch if DRey flips town? If so, why would DRey flipping town mean I would be scum in your eyes?
Where did you get my advocating your lynch if DRey flips town?
From the 'taking a fresh look at Wessel' part of your post. Why are you already calling for that? And why does DRey flipping town influence your read of me?
This should already be apparent, given that I have stated my suspicion of you and have explained how I do not see the possibility of both you and DRey as scum. My view of you has been a hindering factor in my being confident in a DRey lynch. So, if DRey is lynched and flips town, I will see you even more as scum (especially given your 'when DRey would flip town bit'), and think others should as well. Granted, this is all hypothetical, as DRey might be scum and might not even be lynched today, but it may happen quickly and I may not see tomorrow (in game).
Second, you seem very nervous. As Vitek pointed out, you are starting to distance yourself from the DRey wagon a little, which does not inspire confidence. This was the thrust of my question; I recommend that you be given a conditional second look, and you think I am calling for your lynch and are already acting as if DRey has been lynched and flipped town.
DRey has been at functional L-1 (Actual L-2) for over 48 hours, and has been MIA for over 72.
This is unacceptable, especially given his habit of demanding prods and pokes by the mod.
I consider his inactivity to be in contempt of the town and an attempt to 'wait out' the group seeking his lynch. I propose a deadline- if DRey does not post within 24 hours he will be held as refusing to claim, and those currently not voting will be asked to vote accordingly.
I was sick and tired the past couple of days, but after some nice vomiting I feel better.
I have also been thinking about DRey. A particular sentence in his last post has made me doubt my view about him. Namely, the sentence 'Or am I misunderstanding something' shows self-doubt on the part of DRey. That is a townie mindset.
I think it's pretty irrelevant to be debating the experience of players. I wouldn't mind doing this when the game is over though.
Glad your feeling better, Wessel. I'm recovering myself.
Re DRey: Do you believe that your discovery is enough to squash everything DRey has done?
I would beg to differ on the irrelevance to the game. Experience means a lot when it comes to the game of Mafia. We keep track of our game records for this reason. For you to not answer a question like this has me curious about what you are actually thinking.
22bebo : Post 241, It kinda does feel like you're trying to get me to at least keep an eye DJ. You're making sure to point out things that he missed that you would have responded to yourself.
What happened was I did a reread of the thread, and noted that he seemed to just dismiss things. Your list of questions he's not answered falls right into this theme, I think. I wanted to point it out to the town as a whole, although I did mention you by name because you were involved in a lot of the interactions. No one seemed to be quite as vocal about him as you.
How else am I supposed to decide what I want to point out? If it looks like something that I thought needed to be answered, something that I would've answered if it were directed at me, I feel like he should have answered it.
Because this way it looks like you are trying to not comit to anything or to offend anyone. This is usually scum tactic that allows them to slide by.
I know it is a scum tactic, and I've been lynched before because I've done the same thing. I'm still not super experienced, so I did it without thinking. In posts since I've tried to not be, solely because this, and I will try to curb my habit from now on.
It may be true but also often mafia try to avoid each other to avoid suspicion. Right now I don't believe DeathJoey is scum, though, so for now I will assume this is not that case.
Because someone noticed that and you are trying to prove they are wrong?
I made my case in response to being asked here what my reads on people were by Archae. Mindslavor was referring to my response to a question from Void.
No reason other than I sometimes forget to look back and see if questions have been answered. More so, when the one responding appeared to had answered them all.
I get that it has, but I have given what I feel is a credible reason as to why, and taken every opportunity to answer questions addressed at me, and attempt to help in the scumhunt. I dont feel 22bebo has once actually helped scumhunt, just occasionally provide some insights that are real generalizations. I feel his lack of helping the town makes him scum.
I dont see what this has to do with me, this is my case against you. And I had already made my reasons known against the person who accused me. You have done little do qualm my suspicions.
Huh? I was just acknowledging what Archae pointed out . . .
This could be, but it could also be as someone put it to me "lurky-lurky" wait and see type mentality. Especially since DRey is hot under the knife right now. Your lack of posting wont garner much attention since he has to make a case and is the focal point.
I have no real way to argue against this. Yes, it could have been, but I replied and drew attention to myself. It's not like DRey's situation has improved much, so couldn't I continue to just hide?
But is it better then not voting at all? I mean, are you not scum-hunting? Because if you are not, that means you are scum correct? Also why was it useless?
No, I would rather he put pressure on me and made me answer his questions. But, if he's wrong in his vote, wouldn't it be better if he put it on someone who might be scum? I didn't want him to unvote and stop playing, I wanted him to decide to unvote and search in other places.
I actually answered why his vote was useless in my post:
And I apologize for thinking that blatant declarations of "I'M TOWN!" seem scummy to me. To me, it is assumed that every player claims he or she is town, so they don't need to declare it to defend themselves, they need to provide evidence that convinces the other players that they are.
EWP: I realize that my response just above this comes very close to me declaring I'm town. I couldn't think of a way to answer his question that didn't involve it in some degree.
I said it was useless because, and I hate myself for this, I'm town. I know I'm town, and I know that a vote on me is a vote that is bad for the town. It's better than no vote, but still not nearly as good as a vote that might be on a scum.
If you were scum, I feel you wouldnt come out of the woodwork, you would take a wait and see approach. But not answering my questions would seem even more scummy. The only way to make yourself seem town would be to answer the questions and provide reasons you shouldnt be voted. Do you feel you have done that?
I feel I have answered your questions, to the best of my ability. I will continue to do such until you have changed your mind or I am killed, in some form or another.
Somewhere in between, I liked to be asked questions, and I like to be under the radar, I'm only a moderately experienced scum.
It took me a bit to figure out what you meant by this. Anyways, it seems he's never actually been scum, so my theory still holds what little water it was holding.
I felt that I had answered that already.
When he said that to me, I said that for some people, it could be a meta tell, if their posting style changes drastically, but otherwise, not something I would use as a tell.
As Nyxu said, you're pointing things out to him that you could've either asked yourself, and makes it look like you don't want to be caught asking me those things.
The main thing is that you didn't address them in the first place, and I'm wondering why. I'd also like you to address them, and I'm just using Nyxu's quotes to ask you the questions instead of rephrasing them. Sort of a "Give credit where credit is due" thing, I guess. I really didn't consider it when I used them.
I have also been thinking about DRey. A particular sentence in his last post has made me doubt my view about him. Namely, the sentence 'Or am I misunderstanding something' shows self-doubt on the part of DRey. That is a townie mindset.
Because you said something, that confused him and he asked what you meant by that statement, you are suddenly having doubts and want to back down?
Have to concur here . . .
One last thing I was wondering: Misting, how experienced would you consider yourself? You don't have a record of your games, and I was just wondering, as you seem very insightful.
Woo . . . That was a lot. Hopefully I covered it all!
Can someone explain or refresh my memory on a few terms I've run across:
Nyorom (or whatever it was DeathJoey keeps saying followed by the weird smiley bread . . .)
WIFOM (I used to know what this meant. )
Strawman
Is there a database of games people have been in? I kind of want to make a record, but can't remember if I've been in one or two games previously. (Sounds weird, but at least one game had the strange situation of me getting lynched and replacing back in, thus the confusion.)
~nyoron has appeared in three of DJ's posts, and is linked to a Haru-nyan chibi comic where Tsuruya (Churuya-san in the chibi comic) asks if there's any Smoked Cheese left. The immediate response is "You ate it already, didn't you?", and she only responds with a canted head and "~nyoron"
I thought it was odd the first time, but when I went through and reread his posts I noticed he used it twice (So I looked it up). His last post confirms the presence of a pattern.
Because I want to answer the non-gamestate questions, here we go:
I suspect ~nyoron to be breadcrumbing flavour by Deathjoey. Explained further above.
WIFOM is "Wine in front of me" - referring to the poisoned wine scene from The Princess Bride. Boils down to a situation where two or more results or explanations are equally likely and, at the time, lack any concrete way of deciding which is true.
Strawman argument is something I cannot sufficiently explain- it's a logical fallacy that involves misrepresenting your opponent in a way that makes their stance harder to defend or easier to break. There's entire articles on this you can find online that will better explain it.
Re your earlier post- I appreciate you taking the time to read over and respond to my comments. Glad -someone- braved that wall of text.
Your reasonings seem solid enough, but when you respond to Vitek, a flag raised for me.
Why would I begin to interact with him now?
Why would you need more reason than suspicion and insufficient responses to sate your suspicion? Avoiding interacting with Deathjoey has clearly not worked for you, yet you need someone to provide you with reason- perhaps even an implied permission- to change course and potentially identify threats to the town?
Good to know the pace of the game has picked up since last post, bad to know that it's me that's being pushed into L-2.
Oh well, once again looks like my acid playstyle brought me in claim range, I really need to fix that lol. Anyway I'm Itsuki Koizumi - Town Bodyguard. Once per night I may submit to the mod a name of a player, I will prevent the kill on him, but I will end up killed myself. There's one thing I've PMed Arcadic about my role, but not response yet. Considering I'm such a weak power role (after all, when I actually "hit", I end up dead :sweat:) because of that I'm considering this game to be a low power game, meaning mafia is also weakish or the rest of the town got the good ones.
@everyone I've skimmed the posts so far and there's a load of things to comment and answer, but I'm simply too sick and tired to do it now (I've got a throat infection).
EWP: I've thought long and hard about fakeclaiming VT because since I'm now outted, my power has been severely weakened, but I would probably end up lynched instead so I decided to say the truth so at least I can help town before being Nked tonight.
Private Mod Note
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I would beg to differ on the irrelevance to the game. Experience means a lot when it comes to the game of Mafia. We keep track of our game records for this reason. For you to not answer a question like this has me curious about what you are actually thinking.
Well, actually I think it is pretty irrelevant most of the time. This, though, is a special circumstance. Specifically, do you think DJ plays the type of scum game that wants questions?
As for DRey's claim, it comes down to if we believe the Bodyguard bit. It's uncomfimable until he dies. I for one would like to know the flavor before judging. That IS a question, DRey.
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You would not be the first and you won't be the last. I believe I made the same mistake when talking to Wessel in a previous game. IDK which one, but I am fairly certain it was Wessel.
It's a null tell the first time around, but afterwards it becomes a little scummy. This is my opinion on the subject. Not everyone follows this.
Anyone is likely to replace out due to pressure...
And what are you trying to say here? Popsucker /Mindslavor is likely to be town due to replacing a non poster?
This makes no sense. So just above this, you said he was likely to be town, yet now -if- he flips scum? Playing both sides here...
"If I call you town, does that make me look townier to you?" ;]
And I don't see how Popsucker's alignment in any way affects Proph's alignment based on that one theory.
Okay.
Aware of the possibility of a counter claim? Yes.
Claiming scum? Also Yes.
If there -was- a counterclaim, there is no way of verifying that, especially not day 1.
Looking at the possibilities, we have 3 options.
1. The Cop counterclaims
2. A town counterclaims
3. A Scum counterclaims
1. If a cop counterclaimed, we still can't verify it's authenticity. This also paints him as a target for scum, and thus, goes against the game plan of a Cop of staying alive and being useful. I assume at least a basic understanding of this game would prevent a town cop from counterclaiming. Not without some investigation results, and certainly not d1.
2. Town counterclaim just leads to confusion and is detrimental to town.
Let them live, and get NK'd, or lynch them for backtracking and inconsistencies d2. This reason -should- prevent random counterclaims, even if it served the purpose of obscuring the cop.
3. Same as reason 2. Since the first 2 reasons are unlikely to happen, this means only scum will counterclaim.
And besides, no one even said we -had- a cop ;]
Not really, a true town convinces through actions, not words. (well, still words...)
A statement like that is only fluff.
If a statement like that is null, then why would you feel the need to say it?
People will make their own reads regardless of that statement.
Also, you accuse me of smearing you and smear me in the same sentence? heh.
You're arguing a completely different point here.
What I'm saying that you're doing is, for example:
If you had a habit of lurking as scum, and people were aware of that.
If you were aware of their knowledge, you could take advantage of this by -NOT- lurking as scum, and thus use self meta as an argument against being scum.
Also, the fact that you brought it up yourself, as opposed to other people bringing it up for you further voids the validity of your meta argument.
You completely ignore that I stated that my reads were not concrete enough for me to vote.
I don't refuse to vote, I've just refrained from voting at this point. And already, you use it as a smear against me.
Proves? What proves anything?
Looks like you're just fearmongering to stop people voting you now.
So misting broke hearts.
Cue wagon on DRey.
I like to make my vote count, and not just throw it around on whoever looks at me funny.
With "reads" like those, it's no wonder people didn't like them very much...
I lol'd
Coaching was my first reaction too.
What do you mean by "Nice"?
If there was a opposite to OMGUS, I would use it on your post.
Interesting read, although it's possible that he was just poking for activity.
I didn't take much out of it.
This has been answered multiple times.
Including the "hunting", as you put it.
Okay, although I -do- intend to get back on those eventually...
Preferably when I don't have a huge backlog of multi-quotes to get through ^_^;;
See above.
The only "conclusion" I have right now, is that Nyxu is highly likely to be town. The other results, are just providing interactions to be examined.
Denying being scum does not necessarily mean they're saying they're town ;]
Are you hinting at a 3rd party now? O:
First person to go 3rd party hunting is definitely scum xDD
-tsk tsk- arcadic, this is a basic!
Interesting catch.
Any specifics? Big portions?
These can be answered by reading into my motives.
Or was this directed at Nyxu?
If you personally saw something that required following up, why are you trying to get someone else to do it for you?
Why does it feel like you're trying to get him to attack me?
Gauge reactions, and trying to force a little activity from L_MD is how I saw that.
This statement contains no logic, and looks like you're just trying to force your own opinion to try and lead others' thoughts. Not the first time you've done this.
L_MD replaced out due to activity, not pressure.
You can't put pressure on someone who's not playing .___.
Another terrible self meta argument.
I did this in another game I was town, if I do the same thing again, I makes me look town. Yeah... no.
Also another compliment to cover this attack?
Subtly changing it from "More valuable than a Lurker (L_MD)" to "Too valuable to lose D1"
Firstly, the post in question wasn't even directed at me, L_MD wasn't exactly looking townie at that point.
You're saying 2 different things here.
Yes nothing is gained, but not as much is lost as if a major active player was lynched, even at the cost of letting a potential scum live, because at least an active scum can provide interactions and content to analyse.
Also, why is wessel 99% scum? How are you so completely sure of your read?
And an L_MD lynch and a Vitek lynch are -NOT- the same thing.
who even said we -had- a cop? ;]
And why do you feel the need to throw around the cop now?
Yes, contradicting your own buddying...
I also want to know what exactly has changed?
What?
Uhh... I'm not sure what you're trying to say here..
So you think L_MD was scum, and you would be annoyed at the mis-read?
And DRey and I are your biggest suspects, but you wouldn't be annoyed when we flipped... because you KNOW we would flip town?
LMD myslynch would be bothersome, but DJ or DRey mislynches would be more bothersome because he's confident in his reads that they wouldn't be mislynches.
Make sense?
Also. Please note. DJ puts a lot of suspicion in what is coming off as a consistently noncomittal manner on DRey, then in his last statement (or question) insinuates that Wessel knows that not only he (DJ) will flip town, but DRey will also flip town.
DJ, would you kindly explain this nonconformity in your argument?
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
Clearer?
This is ridiculous, are you trying to smear me? That's not what I meant at all.
1)On-going game, can't talk.
2)I never said you should instanly consider me town for making the very same argument in two different games, let me try to elaborate more on your reaction for the same thing in both games.
Two different responses to the very same argument, that's what I'm talking about, cognitive dissonance. Also I've never said I'm town just because I'm saying the very same thing I've said in a previous game as town. That's certainly ridiculous as anyone could post the very same thing as scum to never be lynched. I'm saying Wessel knows I say those kind of things as town, his reaction is totally unnatural of him, plus he has said a very similar thing and thinks it's fine when he says it, but when I say it's an absurd. That's scummy.
This is baffling really. I'm not trying to make you feel pity of me or trying to make you feel bad for voting me because we think alike, we are playing mafia, not in kindergarden. Just so we are on the same boat:
a)YOU CANNOT SAY MY FEELINGS ARE GARBAGE BECAUSE I'M THE ONLY ONE THAT KNOW HOW I FEEL. You can say I'm lying and stuff, but it's your opinion against mine, I know I'm being truthful as it's about me we are talking about so we will have to agree to disagree here.
EWP: btw this is mafia, I know you have to push for mislynches for craptastic reasons because you are scum and that's has nothing to do with your real feelings, in fact I sincerely hope you are scum because it would disappoint me greatly if you really meant what you are saying.
Huh? are you a politician or something? I've reread what I said and I still can't understand your response, as this has nothing to do with my statement.
It's also of note how much you don't want to be linked to DJ. If that was not clear enough, I think you are both scum.
I can't believe you believe in that for a second, are you really trying to push "lynching the player with 4 posts and zero interations is certainly the way to go for town, it leads to many things". You are not a newbie Wessel, are you actually trying to play this game? Lynching a lurker at that point would bring town nowhere, it's particularly interesting you disagree lynching DJ since his lynch at that point of time would clearly benefit town much more because of the tons of info we would gather comparing to zero info we would get from LMD.
Nice misrep. Is anyone actually reading those posts? If you are reading please put a food in the subject of your next post to demonstrate you are actually reading. I'm not saying "Wessel is scum because he knows LMD is cop/vanilla" at all, I'm saying "Wessel is scum because his mentality is: LMD is disposable no matter what he is, let's just lynch him." This is not a town mentality, no mislynches are ever good for town, it's our duty to scumhunt and actually try to find scum, not just "let's lynch the lowest poster for no reason and hope for the best".
My weak read of you has got much stronger, I'm confident you are scum now. In your words:
That's quite appropriate. Oh wait, you are going to attack me for thinking like you (in an opposite manner) again?
1)Nyx didn't attack DJ for nothing, you keeping repeating this won't make this true, but it's good to see you are still deflecting from DJ.
2)Funny how quickly found a town motivation for Nyx actions after the whole town has demonstrated DJ was the loser of that "battle", trying to jump away from the sinking ship much? The best part is that I've started to suspect you are scum exactly because of that. Your "read" of the situation was the opposite of mine.
3)"DJ actions could be indicative of scum, or town, it's a null tell really" is not reasoning, in fact your name from now one will be mr. fencesit extraordinaire.
I... don't understand what's your point. I'm not saying LMD is a cop, cop is just a word I randomly choose for any kind of power role. It's kinda funny becase when I first wrote that I choose another role, but I decided it would be better to keep talking about that cop just in case, for obvious reasons.
And here goes my hopes. After all those games haven't you learned nothing Void? If there's one you should be putting your vote on is Wessel.
Oh look, this again. Maybe I really need to improve my english. Anyway, that was totally not my point.
This post got me a little confused as I don't actually remember what's your opinion about Wessel is after all. Can you reveal to us what is, for posterity please?
I have no willpower as of now to answer so many non-sensical things you have said, but saying "I'm scum" is a big scumtell, and it's impressing why haven't you been lynched yet for this "jokes", as it's the second time in this game you say you are scum (if I remember well), I prefer a lynch on Wessel but just so everyone is aware I'm perfectly fine with a lynch on you too.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Yes, I have learned DRey. Thank you for reminding me.
Vote: DRey
Okay, what was the point then? Is this something specific between you and Wessel? To the rest of us, the post clearly reads as you giving a self-meta argument.
Why?
Just leaving this here.
Certainly. Mainly, it came from this post.
Points of particular interest are bolded by me. So early in the game, I did not like this tone of aggression.
A townie is certainly capable of being aggressive, but here it felt too much like pushing an early bandwagon for a lynch, especially since Nyxu is now a strong town candidate. I fell like town aggression is acceptable in this form when in pursuit of a non-responsive target or other such evasive poster.
To tired to do more than this at the moment. Thoughts on the current situation will come later.
Because that was a big stretch, grasping at straws as Nyx said.
If I was a good player you would already be dead. Mafia it's so frustrating at times, I don't think I've ever convinced anyone of my reads in my games except when I was wrong (for obvious reasons).
Why should I see him as scum? I saw no scumminess in his 3 posts, maybe I'm not as good as you that can detect scum so fast.
In fact I'm now leaning town on Vitek mostly because of you.
Cute, but you didn't think it was absurd in that other game... neither pushed for my lynch. There will ever be an explanation for this inconsistency? Also I couldn't careless about your opinion about me, because you are scum.
Hahahaha, yeah right.
Ah When Wessel starts fabricating scumtells, it's time to lynch him.
You are reaching. I'm not saying you deflected from DJ just because you wanted to see LMD dead, it's the way you did it that makes a world of difference. First you attacked Nyx for attacking DJ for legittimate reasons, then after the ship was sinking you started to buddy up to Nyx and tried to paint DJ fishing as a nulltell, next LMD suddenly turned into being the best choice for lynch because... he was not doing anything? Therefore was an expendable player, if that's not clear deflection I don't what this is.
Also I fail to see how you should be accused of deflecting from me, since you are pushing for my lynch. Or am I misunderstanding something?
So "the posts since your proposal" already gave us enough information right? Ok, let's make a little game, let's consider LMD was lynched D1, flipped town and we are now D2. Show me (with quotes if possible) the stances on all players about him and where does that leave us.
And again you are saying you wanted to lynch LMD not because he was scum, but because he was the weakest player, and not a big deal to lose = scum mindset, now please get lynched.
I'm saying that for the longest time, and saying "of course it's not true" isn't a proper defense.
Heh, if there was a dictionary of mafia terms I would submit the bolded as the very definition of fencesitting.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I assume you are refering to this:
So, to answer my own question, it is something specific to you and Wessel. Is that correct? I ask because your response conflates both the you-giving-a-self-meta-argument and Wessel-showing-cognitive-dissonance things, which makes it hard to understand, especially if the content matter is limited to you and Wessel.
Explain how.
@Prophylaxis
It has been over a week since you said you would '[detail] everything'. I read that to mean you would give your thoughts on many of the things that have happened so far. Either way, I'd like to hear more from you.
I'm sure a more experienced scum would prefer to be asked questions. They have the playskill to turn the attacks around. A less experienced scum, however, wouldn't be able to do that, and as such would prefer to remain under the radar.
I've not played Mafia on MTGSally very much, so I don't know everyone as well as others do. I do not know how experienced DJ is so I don't know which category he'd fall into.
Also, Void, I seem to have forgotten to respond to this from an earlier post of your's:
It refers to my idea that DeathJoey would try to go invisible if he could get Nyxu to stop attacking him. And if he were able to continue providing content, but in a different manner he might be able to get away with it. Is there a specific reason you left this out of your response to my theories?
I intended it to function the same as a question. By pointing it out, I felt like he would have to respond to it.
When I point something out and say that, it is what I feel. I'm not certain about it, so I indicated that. And although I wasn't sure, I still felt, and feel, that it was important enough to warrant the Town's attention, so I presented it to them.
As Archae said, didn't you do this same thing?
Have I posted since the post you were quoting? Silly me, must've been sleep-scumhunting again. In all seriousness, I've been swamped for the past few days, and walls of text are harder to catch-up on.
I didn't need to interact with DeathJoey, until my semi-case that is, since I was just watching his interactions with others.
Yes, I was preparing a proactive defense. Proph voted me, I wanted to know why he had voted me so I could do my best to give him reason to unvote me. There's no need for a vote to be spent on someone useless.
And I apologize for thinking that blatant declarations of "I'M TOWN!" seem scummy to me. To me, it is assumed that every player claims he or she is town, so they don't need to declare it to defend themselves, they need to provide evidence that convinces the other players that they are.
EWP: I realize that my response just above this comes very close to me declaring I'm town. I couldn't think of a way to answer his question that didn't involve it in some degree.
Yes, Wessel noticed someone else's post about me, a post which I replied to with a valid answer.
Once more, do I have to interact with DJ personally to gain info on him?
My reads aren't strong enough to warrant much. That's just how I feel given the vibe of each of those player's posts. I explained DeathJoey, and I feel that my feelings towards DRey (At least at that point,) were almost self-explanatory. If you would like I can put together a better case against him that that one line of text.
I have one question, if that was what I had intended, why would I come out of the woodwork now? Judging by people's reactions to me before this, and even now to a degree, I seem to be on the low end of people's radars, as either scum or town. What would I gain from posting now?
I believe I answered this already.
The linky arrow will take you to the post where I listed them. If you'd like more, I can go and fetch them.
It was directed at you.
What I saw was you ignoring something Nyxu said, which, had he said it to me, I would've responded to.
How does my post feel like that?
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
unvote, vote DRey
More to come within the next twelve hours. Need to find the time to compile and finalize my opinion on the current game state. If anyone feels I may miss their question or has something in particular they want addressed please inform me as such.
Weren't you just getting on Wessel for this same exact thing?
Would you please reword this for me? I'm having difficulty understanding what it's asking.
This will more or less be a complete gamestate readthrough, but to avoid significant walling I will be using the post numbers instead of block quote. Color code will be simple enough. Orange leans scum, Cyan leans town. Red scum, Blue town. Individual, noteworthy posts will be given shallow-read coding when possible and minor commentary unless a more detailed response / comment is needed. Following this will be my overview and overall reads.
Deathjoey : Post 23, ~nyoron breadcrumb
Deathjoey : Post 27, Past tense.
Wessel : Post 35, Begins the actual case against me for the Nyx V DJ. Unable to properly gauge a read on this
Misting: Post 37, applies pressure on a flailing me.
Deathjoey : Post 50, Generally !constructive post, declares again his RVS scumteam, and addresses someone (me?) as the cop.
Pinkfloyd : Post 51, Direct question to Joey asked.
parinoid : Post 53, Similar question to P51 asked of Joey.
Deathjoey: Post 54, Answers P51 with a question. Phrasing indicates that DJ does not dispute trying to label someone as a cop.
Deathjoey : Post 55, ~nyoron. Answers P53 with what appears to be ignorance of the game setup as described in Mod Post
Deathjoey : Post 57, Rephrases question to be more direct, indicates that labeling was meant to spark discussion, calls into question Pinkfloyd's character.
parinoid : Post 59, Question asked to Deathjoey
DRey : Post 62, Address The Masses. Promises reads
Lord_McDonalds: Post 64, Question asked to Deathjoey.
Wessel : Post 65, Continues to question my motivations, looking for explanations on specific points of concern. Raises questions against other individuals. Shows indicators that he is not deadset on Nyx=Scum. Question asked to Deathjoey.
Misting : Post 66, Declares DJ statements null tell. This is of note insofar as this appears to be the first declaration as such. Begins case against DRey
Archae : Post 67, draws attention to Wessel's odd behaviour of defending "players whom you paint in a suspicious light."
Wessel : Post 69, Unvote made, little other content. Initially, I saw this as "your reasoning is sound." I continue to see it as such.
Deathjoey : Post 70, Some thumbs-upping without any kind of supporting statements or new information. Answers Wessel's P64
Archae : Post 71, Question asked to Deathjoey
Deathjoey : Post 73, Deathjoey answers Archae P71.
DRey : Post 76, Calls Wessel a good player, makes some comments, presents his reads. Reads are Town: Nyx based on 'liking his posts overall'. Language indicates that he liked me for town before P62, but had minor doubts that were clarified in subsequent posts. Scum: Wessel for "crap reasons" and "... trying to "trap" players..." DJ for fishing cops. Of note, calls Wessel a good player, then says he "expected much more" from Wessel.
Deathjoey : Post 78, ~nyoron.
Wessel : Post 80, explains his reason for unvoting me. Question asked of Deathjoey.
Deathjoey : Post 83, ~nyoron. Answers Wessel's P80
Nyxu : Post 106 : Addresses Deathjoey, requesting more content
Wessel : Post 102, encourages activity in game.
Mindslavor : Post 107, direct question asked to Deathjoey.
Deathjoey : Post 108, Answers P106, tells me to stop tunneling, says he's "contributed plenty of content". Answers P107
Wessel : Post 117, marks DRey as a potential suspect.
Wessel : Post 121, "Thinking about voting LMD". Indicates DJ's earlygame as null tell.
Archae : Post 122, Slightly obscured, but question presented to DJ
DRey : Post 139, Asks if Wessel is deflecting from DJ. Calls wessel a good player again.
DRey : Post 140, Says that Wessel's "who is for and who is against LMD lynch" bit is "the kind of "scummy" post [DRey] would do." because he "like[s] the spotlight and being pressured when [he's] scum" Language indicates that he believes that this is a town move. Asks Wessel a question, then quotes an older post and responds as if it was meant to answer a new question.
Deathjoey : Post 151, cites avoiding of questions and hints of not paying attention to the thread as reasons for DRey being scum. These same factors are present in Deathjoey.
22bebo : Post 175, The first time I read this I actually wondered if he was trying to get me to chime in Re: Deathjoey again
DRey : 186 Outright adhom on Deathjoey. His self-meta.. argument? is a gnarled mass of confusing statements that I can't even paraphrase. Question asked to Deathjoey.
Mindslavor : Post 192, Question asked to Deathjoey.
22bebo : Post 203, highlights more sections of my posts that he feels are not fully answered by Deathjoey.
DRey : Post 207, If he doesn't want to lynch LMD, why would he validate his vote? Gauging the player base. Functions off an assumption (LMD ragequitting)
Deathjoey : Post 226, more or less repeats himself inside a large block post #whosaidwehadacop;] Ignores specifics highlighted by 22bebo in P203. Answers P186 and P192
Nyxu : Post 228, Question presented to Deathjoey
DRey : Post 230, using an ongoing game for his arguments? None of this sits well with me. Ad-homish statements, reaching argument re: Wessel's reaction to being told he's deflecting equating to specifically wanting not to be linked with Deathjoey. What are the "Obvious Reasons" that DRey refers to re: his use of #couldbecop
DRey : Post 238, "If I was a good player you would already be dead" More references to what he said was an ongoing game. Misappropriates the DJ #couldbecop = nulltell from RVS to having started with Wessel
22bebo : Post 241, It kinda does feel like you're trying to get me to at least keep an eye DJ. You're making sure to point out things that he missed that you would have responded to yourself.
I went ahead and noted a good portion the questions asked to Deathjoey, and when he answered them. Probably missed a few.
Asked Answered
Asked Answered
Asked
Asked Answered
Asked
Asked Answered
Asked Answered
Asked Answered
Asked
Asked Answered
Asked Answered
Asked
@DRey: my initial opinion of Wessel was that he was a strong town player, though it was primarily from his voting, pressuring, then subsequently unvoting me when he was satisfied with my argument. My current opinion is that he is a strong, inquisitve player with town leanings, but, like everyone in this game, is not above suspicion.
And now, Reads.
22bebo : No read on him. I'm confused as to his motivations against DJ
Archae : Inquisitive, but hasn't been on my radar very much
Deathjoey This is slowly trending out of orange. Points for Breadcrumbs. His posts, however, feel almost minimalist, and he's got a few unanswered questions waiting.
Drey : Spiraling out of control.
Vitek r.[s]Lord Mcdonalds[/s] : Little to go off of as yet.
Misting
nyxu : The only known factor is oneself. I unashamedly declare myself town.
parinoid : This is a weak read, but his posts and insights have seemed pro-town.
Void r.[s]pinkfloyd[/s] HIGHLY inquisitive right out of the gates, has seemed strong so far.
Mindslavor r. [s]Popsucker[/s] : I have little read on him, unfortunately.
Prophylaxis : I've seen little posting from him as yet. No read.
Wessel : See above.
So, with DRey now the frontrunner for the Noose, I'd like to see a calm, concise defense that isn't built around putting someone else in the noose first.
My reads will be coming, as some are still forming. Until then, if you're bored, you can respond to my question and demand here.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
You're at L-2. Please claim.
After I posted you asked me the quoted question along with a few others. I responded to those, and not to it on accident. You didn't ask me why, and I'm wondering if you had a reason for it.
Much better.
No reason other than I sometimes forget to look back and see if questions have been answered. More so, when the one responding appeared to had answered them all.
No. How hard was that to deduce? What part of gut signifies tangibility ?
I am saying when you call someone scum, or say they are scummy, whether they are or not is slanderous.
I get that it has, but I have given what I feel is a credible reason as to why, and taken every opportunity to answer questions addressed at me, and attempt to help in the scumhunt. I dont feel 22bebo has once actually helped scumhunt, just occasionally provide some insights that are real generalizations. I feel his lack of helping the town makes him scum.
Well, why not just ask the question to make certain it is noticed.
I dont see what this has to do with me, this is my case against you. And I had already made my reasons known against the person who accused me. You have done little do qualm my suspicions.
This could be, but it could also be as someone put it to me "lurky-lurky" wait and see type mentality. Especially since DRey is hot under the knife right now. Your lack of posting wont garner much attention since he has to make a case and is the focal point.
But is it better then not voting at all? I mean, are you not scum-hunting? Because if you are not, that means you are scum correct? Also why was it useless?
Not necessarily, but why would you not keep pressure on him if you are scum-hunting him? What do you have to lose if this is the case ?
If you were scum, I feel you wouldnt come out of the woodwork, you would take a wait and see approach. But not answering my questions would seem even more scummy. The only way to make yourself seem town would be to answer the questions and provide reasons you shouldnt be voted. Do you feel you have done that?
I didnt declare you town. I recall saying leaning in my phrasing. The fact that we agree isnt the only reason, but with so little to go off of, having you being a replacement, it is a start.
I addressed him, and addressed this when parinoid initially brought it up. I dont feel the need to address the same question, perhaps if you or Archae had a new one?
oog
That said, I go back on swing shifts tomorrow. I work 7a-7p Fri, Sat, Sun, I also TO my LGS FNM Fri from 7p-1a. I have Monday off, then work 7p-7a Tues, Weds and Thurs. Despite Monday being an off day, I have to turn around my internal clock, so my apologies if I am not here as much.
No, there is no reason why Monday is actually spelled, and the other days are shortened ;-)
Formerly Mindslavor
Visit Rivenor for all of the Academy's awesome artwork.
You and I have different conceptions of the meaning of slander(ous), then.
I don't follow the line of logic there. Nor do I understand why you would ask a rhetorical question that begets WIFOM.
Again, this only promotes WIFOM. Do you see that? If so, was that your intention?
noncommittal? do I come off that way?
I was wondering about his word choice, using the word "WHEN" for drey and I
WHEN we flip town, instead of IF... as if he knew we were going to flip town,
but he has explained this in his post.
I'm telling the truth, because I'm saying the same thing in a previous game as town. That's certainly ridiculous, as anyone could post the very same thing as scum to never be doubted.
You are scum, and you're doing this because you are scum, and I hope you're scum, because you are scum and I have no idea what you were trying to achieve.
Are -YOU- reading these posts?
I can't even call this a strawman, as your last line has nothing to do with the argument at hand.
His argument was, neither side have any way of telling if LMD is a cop.
You take this as... LMD is a lurker, and disposable...
Accusing him of misrepping?
And yet you called me out on this earlier for the same reason?
And what are these "obvious reasons" of yours? Or were you going to wait for someone to just give you an answer.
You said earlier that you weren't avoiding questions, and that you'd answer my points.
Please explain why you think my post is non-sensical. And address what I've said in response to you in it.
Somewhere in between, I liked to be asked questions, and I like to be under the radar, I'm only a moderately experienced scum.
I felt that I had answered that already.
When he said that to me, I said that for some people, it could be a meta tell, if their posting style changes drastically, but otherwise, not something I would use as a tell.
As Nyxu said, you're pointing things out to him that you could've either asked yourself, and makes it look like you don't want to be caught asking me those things.
Now, I was planning on voting DRey, but he is at L-2...
I'm planning on putting him to L-1 after his claim.
No objections? Good.
What I said was that much of the time I phrase the things I want answered as statements. However, I have asked you questions (You even responded to one), and statements like "Explain please" are basically the same thing. Which, I note, you still have not responded to. I've given you the benefit of the doubt since you were engaged with Wessel, but now...
..Now would be a good time to do this.
Before you discout a someone's scumtell, let's just remember who likes to lynch replacers.
Again, not quite right.
So you hate lurkers, but proposing a lynch on one is not okay? Not only that, but he is a replacer. But you say:
What's up with that inconsistency? Why is it that you have these beliefs, but then throw them out the window when Wessel acts?
Evidence that you miss things. Keep this in mind, DRey, next time you say people don't ask questions.
This argument can be used on anyone who has not voted. People have their own habits for voting. Just because someone does not vote the second they have suspicion, does not mean they are scum.
Rather like you conviniently ignored half of my argument against you? I don't hold it against you, because not everything is answered all at once.
It's only as scummy a mindset as the situation warrants. I've seen plenty of times when the town under deadline picks a lurker/non-valuable player to pressure and lynch if all else fails. What happens in this situation is that this porvokes discussion, and a better target does present itself. In this case, you.
Can you please quote the first time you bring this up?
DRey's recent actions have not given me a reason to unvote him. His argument with Wessel is so dependant on meta from an ongoing game that I just don't wnat to get into it. Taking that out of the equation, he is still the most likely scum to me. Time for a claim, though I don't predict it doing much good.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Moving on, I reviewed Mindslavor's game, and I am less than inspired by it. Of particular interest to me is when he says things like:
I see this as a misrepresentation of DJ's motives. It is a weak connection of two things to fabricate a scummy reason for DJ's read.
Are you really discounting someone's reasonable explanation for the scummiest option? Again, this is conecting two things (His lack of posting and DRey's spotlight) to arrive at the scummiest possible motivation.
I've got one. Is calling something a null-tell the same as fence-sitting in your mind?
One last question, directed at Void: What is your opinion of how a scum thinks and acts in regard to questions?
I wanted to hear more from Porphylaxis first, but I suppose things are progressing with DRey and I may not otherwise get a chance.
First, Wessel was the foremost suspect in my mind, so I am having issues with this whole DRey v. Wessel thing that has been the center of the game. I cannot imagine that those two are on a scumteam together - so in my mind, either one of them is scum or neither is scum. DRey's play has been pretty darn bad, with terrible reasoning, appeals to emotion, and bad attacks. I wanted to hear his/her explanation of why my pointing out something was 'grasping at straws', because I think s/he doesn't actually have a reason and was just repeating what Nyxu said. Still, I have my worries surrounding Wessel; s/he would be a bigger worry to me as scum, since many seem to think Wessel is far-and-away town. Then again, if DRey is lynched and flips town, taking a fresh look at Wessel should be in order.
Vitek has been pretty good, and allays a lot of my original suspicion on Lord_McDonalds. Similarly, I don't think parinoid is scum, despite his recent absence. It bothers me that Prophylaxis is still in this game, and I have next to no way to read him/her. Hopefully there is a very good reason for the lack of posting.
Mindslavor is my other favorite for scum, for reasons that should be evident. I see Nyxu and Misting as the most townie players, adding parinoid and Vitek to those that are leaning town. I haven't seen anything to make me question Void or 22bebo yet, so, by process of elimination, I think I should take a much closer read on Deathjoey.
That's pretty much where my thoughts are right now - this game has been a little tough for me with the lurking levels, players replacing out early, and the fragmented discussion in the thread.
My opinion is it really depends on how comfortable the player is as scum.
Kpaca, who has many completed games, is very comfortable as scum and tends to pull off these extreme risky gambits while being questioned relentlessly.
Fluffyn00b, who has about 5 completed games on this site, is rather timid and would want to avoid confrontation.
I would gladly grab you some more referrences if you want them.
Would you please prod those that have not been posting? I looked back and saw a few over 72 hours w/o a post.
A once over has me:
- agreeing with Drey being run-up. Nyxu's assessment of him is perhaps the most apt.
- reluctantly feeling better about DJ. I haven't seen any more indicators from him and one bad action shouldn't damn someone.
- thinking Vitek's looking good. Replacing for a lurker had me leery, but his posts have me thinking that he has the town's interests at heart.
- pretty much /barn'ing everything Archae said about Mindslavor.
Sorry, other stuff's been eating away at my Salvation time. :embarass:
Okay, so does anyone in this game fall into the more experienced category?
Hope you get better soon!:)
One again it depends on the opinion of "experienced".
I would consider Wessel and DRey the two most experienced players as Scum in this game followed by myself. But as for how experienced, as in good we are, then Wessel would be the top dog IMO followed by DRey, then myself.
Granted I do have 6 completed scum games, but I was alive for maybe 100 posts in about 3 of them.
Take it for what is you believe it is worth.
Wessel and DRey
I wouldn't mind if you two gave your opinions on this, if you want to of course.
Where did you get my advocating your lynch if DRey flips town?
This should already be apparent, given that I have stated my suspicion of you and have explained how I do not see the possibility of both you and DRey as scum. My view of you has been a hindering factor in my being confident in a DRey lynch. So, if DRey is lynched and flips town, I will see you even more as scum (especially given your 'when DRey would flip town bit'), and think others should as well. Granted, this is all hypothetical, as DRey might be scum and might not even be lynched today, but it may happen quickly and I may not see tomorrow (in game).
Second, you seem very nervous. As Vitek pointed out, you are starting to distance yourself from the DRey wagon a little, which does not inspire confidence. This was the thrust of my question; I recommend that you be given a conditional second look, and you think I am calling for your lynch and are already acting as if DRey has been lynched and flipped town.
This is unacceptable, especially given his habit of demanding prods and pokes by the mod.
I consider his inactivity to be in contempt of the town and an attempt to 'wait out' the group seeking his lynch. I propose a deadline- if DRey does not post within 24 hours he will be held as refusing to claim, and those currently not voting will be asked to vote accordingly.
Glad your feeling better, Wessel. I'm recovering myself.
Re DRey: Do you believe that your discovery is enough to squash everything DRey has done?
I would beg to differ on the irrelevance to the game. Experience means a lot when it comes to the game of Mafia. We keep track of our game records for this reason. For you to not answer a question like this has me curious about what you are actually thinking.
Not intended, was just trying to answer Void's question.
What happened was I did a reread of the thread, and noted that he seemed to just dismiss things. Your list of questions he's not answered falls right into this theme, I think. I wanted to point it out to the town as a whole, although I did mention you by name because you were involved in a lot of the interactions. No one seemed to be quite as vocal about him as you.
How else am I supposed to decide what I want to point out? If it looks like something that I thought needed to be answered, something that I would've answered if it were directed at me, I feel like he should have answered it.
I just felt that his actions had been a bit strange, and wanted to draw light to them.
I know it is a scum tactic, and I've been lynched before because I've done the same thing. I'm still not super experienced, so I did it without thinking. In posts since I've tried to not be, solely because this, and I will try to curb my habit from now on.
Why would I begin to interact with him now?
I made my case in response to being asked here what my reads on people were by Archae. Mindslavor was referring to my response to a question from Void.
Okay.
Where is this reason?
I just didn't think about it. Why is making a statement which was intended to work like a question scummier than asking a question?
Huh? I was just acknowledging what Archae pointed out . . .
I have no real way to argue against this. Yes, it could have been, but I replied and drew attention to myself. It's not like DRey's situation has improved much, so couldn't I continue to just hide?
No, I would rather he put pressure on me and made me answer his questions. But, if he's wrong in his vote, wouldn't it be better if he put it on someone who might be scum? I didn't want him to unvote and stop playing, I wanted him to decide to unvote and search in other places.
I actually answered why his vote was useless in my post:
I said it was useless because, and I hate myself for this, I'm town. I know I'm town, and I know that a vote on me is a vote that is bad for the town. It's better than no vote, but still not nearly as good as a vote that might be on a scum.
I had not noticed the depth of the scumminess of his posts until I did my reread to find evidences of his dismissive posts.
I feel I have answered your questions, to the best of my ability. I will continue to do such until you have changed your mind or I am killed, in some form or another.
It took me a bit to figure out what you meant by this. Anyways, it seems he's never actually been scum, so my theory still holds what little water it was holding.
Can you direct me to where?
The main thing is that you didn't address them in the first place, and I'm wondering why. I'd also like you to address them, and I'm just using Nyxu's quotes to ask you the questions instead of rephrasing them. Sort of a "Give credit where credit is due" thing, I guess. I really didn't consider it when I used them.
Have to concur here . . .
One last thing I was wondering: Misting, how experienced would you consider yourself? You don't have a record of your games, and I was just wondering, as you seem very insightful.
Woo . . . That was a lot. Hopefully I covered it all!
Is there a database of games people have been in? I kind of want to make a record, but can't remember if I've been in one or two games previously. (Sounds weird, but at least one game had the strange situation of me getting lynched and replacing back in, thus the confusion.)
Because I want to answer the non-gamestate questions, here we go:
I suspect ~nyoron to be breadcrumbing flavour by Deathjoey. Explained further above.
WIFOM is "Wine in front of me" - referring to the poisoned wine scene from The Princess Bride. Boils down to a situation where two or more results or explanations are equally likely and, at the time, lack any concrete way of deciding which is true.
Strawman argument is something I cannot sufficiently explain- it's a logical fallacy that involves misrepresenting your opponent in a way that makes their stance harder to defend or easier to break. There's entire articles on this you can find online that will better explain it.
WIFOM is Wine in Front of Me.
Some players keep track of their records. Check the blog(s) of players here to see if they Mafia Stats. My blog does.
Re your earlier post- I appreciate you taking the time to read over and respond to my comments. Glad -someone- braved that wall of text.
Your reasonings seem solid enough, but when you respond to Vitek, a flag raised for me.
Why would you need more reason than suspicion and insufficient responses to sate your suspicion? Avoiding interacting with Deathjoey has clearly not worked for you, yet you need someone to provide you with reason- perhaps even an implied permission- to change course and potentially identify threats to the town?
Oh well, once again looks like my acid playstyle brought me in claim range, I really need to fix that lol. Anyway I'm Itsuki Koizumi - Town Bodyguard. Once per night I may submit to the mod a name of a player, I will prevent the kill on him, but I will end up killed myself. There's one thing I've PMed Arcadic about my role, but not response yet. Considering I'm such a weak power role (after all, when I actually "hit", I end up dead :sweat:) because of that I'm considering this game to be a low power game, meaning mafia is also weakish or the rest of the town got the good ones.
@everyone I've skimmed the posts so far and there's a load of things to comment and answer, but I'm simply too sick and tired to do it now (I've got a throat infection).
EWP: I've thought long and hard about fakeclaiming VT because since I'm now outted, my power has been severely weakened, but I would probably end up lynched instead so I decided to say the truth so at least I can help town before being Nked tonight.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Well, actually I think it is pretty irrelevant most of the time. This, though, is a special circumstance. Specifically, do you think DJ plays the type of scum game that wants questions?
As for DRey's claim, it comes down to if we believe the Bodyguard bit. It's uncomfimable until he dies. I for one would like to know the flavor before judging. That IS a question, DRey.