I'm not sure it makes him/her look one way or the other. Most of Deathjoey's backtracking has revolved around semantics, which can always be argued. I didn't like the initial choice of labeling someone as cop, nor some of the language used surrounding it. Otherwise, Deathjoey hasn't seemed very conniving to me and has just been bickering with Nyxu.
Is there a particular reason why I am the only player you didn't explain your read on?
You're on the list in leaning town, but without reason. I must have missed it in my preview, my bad.
The reason: Your posts have come across as town. They have a good tone.
Are you thinking of someone else?
I didn't vote for DJ, since there were already enough votes to apply pressure. All I did was decry his actions as suspicious.
I thought I had seen a vote on DJ in one of your posts. Sorry for the mistake.
As you say, my reasons for suspecting MS are quite recent, none the less, they can mostly be found starting here.
I suspect DJ because I am not satisfied by his explanation as to his early actions. I'll dig up my last read on him, since little has changed:
Additionally, I withdraw my suspicion of McD until his replacement arrives. My suspicion was mostly for low+poor activity, so the replacement has the chance to allay that somewhat.
I like the reasoning for Mindslavor. Some of his posts caught my attention as well. His more recent ones at that.
Would you mind elaborating on why you're not satisfied?
That's good reasoning for McD. I was also wary of him, but with his minimal content and being new I know it best to wait for his replacement.
Very well then. I will admit that much of the time my arguments are made as straight statements, not as questions. However, I still expect them to be defended, or else held against you permanently.
Following are the main things I would like addressed.
Heh, to clarify, I haven't ignored your questions because you haven't made any (this will be of importance later). Knowing you want me o comment on your statements I will gladly do.
Aaand, back down again. I really don't see the point of this question, other than to try and throw more suspicion on Nyxu.
Huh? this is completely strange, Nyxu was a town read of me at that point of time, I certainly wasn't trying to throw suspition on a person I think is town (in fact the towniest of all). My question was also very relevant because when someone labels himself as a newbie I expect them to play badly and/or not know the nuances of this game, Nyx was showing great familiarity, that was the only thing that made me wonder if he was not fooling me by being a gimmick or receiving adicional help from outside sources (a QT for example). Actually I still find hard to believe he's a complete newbie (I think he's a gimmick or Naka :p).
I think that this is very interesting. Sure, 22bebo hasn't done really anything, but why are you getting on him, and not, say, Archae?
Because he had posted just before me and I noticed all his posts so far had been excuses for not posting. I didn't even notice Archae was a player at that point (and I'm pretty certain other players haven't even posted back there. :p)
Actually, this is hypocracy in a way, as he had posted more content than you up to this point.
We will have to disagree on this because I think my post was full of content, I don't know if bebo had more posts than me back there, but he certainly hadn't more content than me.
And what's with the "don't remove scumminess" bit? To a certain degree, all townies must try and seems townie, otherwise they would mislynch every single time.
I think you are misundertanding me, I'm not saying "please write scummy posts, because I want to mislynch you" far from it. My point was: new players usually get afraid of posting, maybe because they fear the repercussions, maybe because they are afraid of being pressured and screwing up. So they tend to lurk or fencesit too much and that puts even more pressure and facilitate the game for scum. I've learned from ZDS (one of the best players on this site) that all mislynches are not exclusive responsability of the mislynchee, but mostly of the town. The responsability of correctly identifying noob scum or noob town lies on the town, the mafia has limited voting and interference on lynches. Therefore when one is truthful in what the feel or say they have more chance of being correctly identified. When town tries to be smart or post things he thinks "are right" but not exactly in what he believes, people notice the forced tone of posts or maybe inconsistencies and things go badly. Therefore I say to all the new players: post, post and post. Do not fear posting because the more you post the better for town, even if you are scum.
Every single thing we do in this game has the outside chance that some power role will claim based off of it. What matters is the likleyhood that such an action will induce this response. I believe that DJ's ploy had a very low chance of a cop claim, because it was baseless labeling of the cop. DJ had a one-in-eleven shot of actually hitting a cop with the label, which are pretty slim odds in my mind. Why would a cop claim here? What would he prove by it? It's not as if DJ said that he had inside information as to the cop's identity. The cop would prove nothing by this, and even the most dimwitted person should be able to see this. I have enough faith in the inteligence of the players that they would know not to claim.
I wish I would be as optimist as you, in fact I've learned so far that the opposite is true, I've seen so many dumb plays that I always expect the worse of the players. As I've told you before, I'm saying from personal experience "What?! how did you know I'm the cop?" or "You are wrong, Nyx isn't the cop because I'm the cop" are perfectly plausible followings to DJ's fishing.
This, and the last post make it seem as if you're trying to be overly helpful.
Not a good sign in my experience...
Heh, this is the first time I'm being attacked for being "helpful", so you believe helpful players are scummy huh? That means I'm always scummy because I'm always trying to help players.
I try not to judge people on this, as it's an oog thing, but now that this information is revealed...
It sheds some light on pf (or his replacement)
I'm always down to lynch some replacers, but Void is an useful player to have, he's experienced and always active meaning even if he's scum he will help us catch his teamates.
So far, top would be DRey, his lack of posting does come into this a little, [B]general avoiding of questions[/B] and seems like not paying attention to the thread.
This part is very interesting.
1)I've never been attacked before for "not paying attention to the thread", first because that's not a scumtell, second because people usually says "DRey only pay attention as scum", see Modern Family for an example on this (btw Void and Parinoid were on that game and can vouch for me).
2)Once and for all [B]I'm not lurking, I'm not lacking posts, I'm not stalling.[/B] I'm on vacation and I've traveled 3.000 KM to judge a GP in another city, that's the reason I've been absent for a week. Geez, even considering my long absence the only players that have more posts than me at this point are Nyxu, Deathjoey, Wessel, Archae and parinoid.
3)The bolded is the most interesting one, because you've never mentioned it before neither asked me any question I've missed. You are just repeating a thing Misting has said that even he admitted to be wrong. Therefore trying to deflect on me for bogus reasons. The best part is while I'm suddenly the biggest suspect in your opinion, you refuse to vote on me, why are you afraid to vote me DJ?
DRey - He seems to be hinting these big, glamorous things that he never really puts out on. Feels like he's trying to seem more important than he might really be.
But I'm the most important person here, at least for me. Anyway, people always accused me of grandstanding but I don't agree that's a scumtell at all, in fact I think trying to blend in with overall consensus is much scummier than being splashy.
[B]Drey - Everyone tells me his Town game and Mafia game are black and white, but I have yet to see this. His game is not good and reflects on him negatively a lot, even when he is town. I'm not comfortbale labeling him as a specific alignment just yet.
Thank you so much for replacing Void, you are exactly the kind of player this game needs. But why do you think my game is not good? Do you disagree with my reads so far?
[B]DRey:[/B]
How is lurking indicative of a scum alignement?
Good catch, in fact it's not, but I have lurkers with a passion, they make games slow, people lose interest, they are hard to read, and even if they die and flip scum it's hard for town to analyse their interactions (the best way to scumhunt imho), plus I've lost games to lurkers before (Modern family for example).
Additionally, I withdraw my suspicion of McD until his replacement arrives. My suspicion was mostly for low+poor activity, so the replacement has the chance to allay that somewhat.
Why replacing out makes you "withdraw suspition" on a player?
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@Wessel where are you? I noticed you are posting like a madmen in another thread, why not here too? We deserve some loving too.
@Parinoid I see you have greatly evolved from Modern Family, I'm liking your questions very much, but aren't you confusing noobiness for scumminess?
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
You wanted to see if anyone else found it interesting that we should hunt scum instead of town power roles?
That sounds like an odd thing to be unsure of.
I wanted to see if it was extremely odd town power roles were being hunted. Either you mistook me, or I misspoke.
I don't find this to be an acceptable answer.
I asked why you don't want to 'ruffle feathers'. Your newness, the complexity of the game, and your desire to not 'just throw a vote around, or bandwagon' has nothing to do with it. You can get in someone's grill independent of all those things.
So why don't you want to?
Well, thats going to have to do because that is the truth of it. I didnt want to get in faces, and start trading exchanges and things because I wasnt quite comfortable with how to play, nor was I fully versed in everything I needed to do.
Hah, wow. I didn't even notice that either.
What I was talking about is that none of joey's fishing caught your eye. I'm curious as to why it didn't rate a mention.
I felt the others had covered it enough, and I had nothing new to add.
Quote from DRey »
Nyx was showing great familiarity, that was the only thing that made me wonder if he was not fooling me by being a gimmick or receiving adicional help from outside sources (a QT for example)
I dont recall reading this anywhere, what is a QT?
Quote from Deathjoey »
This, and the last post make it seem as if you're trying to be overly helpful.
Not a good sign in my experience...
Really, you are calling him out for me overly helpful? This seems more scummy then his actual act to me. Feelings like your reaching for reasons because the heat is still on you.
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Formerly Mindslavor Visit Rivenor for all of the Academy's awesome artwork.
[QUOTE=Deathjoey;/comments/10846063]As the second highest poster in the game (This... is unheard of for me o_O) second only to you, I'd say I've contributed plenty of content.
One does not simply 'pick' the scumteam 100 posts into a game...
And do YOU see a viable case against any other players?
Otherwise, you've done little other than tunnel me, and make subtle attacks.
Explaining my actions is not backpedaling.
He just seems to disregard a lot of the accusations thrown at him by Nyxu as tunneling, which they may in fact be, but I just don't feel he's tried to explain his actions as much as he says.
I don't intend to argue semantics further on this topic.
Maybe I'm reading into it too much, but Nyxu's comment was referring to the bit over "Reads vs. Information," while DeathJoey seems to have deconstructed it to try and get Nyxu off of his back.
Prophylaxis - Was recently his scum buddy in Basic #61 Ghost Story. I will keep an eye on him as the game progresses. Currently I do not have enough content from Proph to get a read.
FTFY
Still working on my responses, but for now, here's a theory I'll toss - is it possible that Popsucker got a mafia role, got intimidated, and replaced out? I entertain this because ljossberir (one of the scum in Ghost Story who replaced out) was similar to Popsucker in terms of Day 1.
Maybe I'm reading into it too much, but Nyxu's comment was referring to the bit over "Reads vs. Information," while DeathJoey seems to have deconstructed it to try and get Nyxu off of his back.
Does this give you an indication of alignemnt toawrds DJ with this finding?
You believe DJ did this to get Nyxu off his back, but do you think there may have been other motives playing into this?
Still working on my responses, but for now, here's a theory I'll toss - is it possible that Popsucker got a mafia role, got intimidated, and replaced out? I entertain this because ljossberir (one of the scum in Ghost Story who replaced out) was similar to Popsucker in terms of Day 1.
It really depends on how the player replaced out. If there was pressure, then it would some credence that the player could be newb scum. However, if no pressure was present, then likely the player replaced out for other reasons. I'll be going back to check on this as well, but IIRC correctly, there wasn't any pressure at the time.
Also, what does FTFY stand for? Haven't seen that one yet.
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
No I do not, but I do think that if you are on the scum team, and some of the scum were earlier suspects by other players, you would try to divert the attention from them to people you know are town, would you not?
You're line of questioning leads to WIFOM; do you want me to respond to it? Again, if you're suspicious of me, okay. I'd like to see reasons I can understand, since they have so far been at odds with each other (you get on me for giving my opinions, saying I'm trying to influence others - then you object to my asking others whom they suspect, saying I'm playing more wait-and-see).
Care to explain more what has been distant?
Sure. I'm posting from my phone, and will try to do it tomorrow (out of game).
So your admitting either his read is good, or youd like to be on his bandwagon since I questioned you?
I'm not sure how good parinoid's read is, but his/her more recent posts have been insightful and the points against you have been making me take another look at you. I'm not sure if that means I'm joining 'his bandwagon', but take it as you will.
@Wessel: I meant 'fingered' as in 'pointed a finger of suspicion at'.
Does this give you an indication of alignemnt toawrds DJ with this finding?
You believe DJ did this to get Nyxu off his back, but do you think there may have been other motives playing into this?
It seems scummy to me. A scum would rather not have to respond to questioning, and it seems like he did it to avoid questioning.
Perhaps to try to drop of other's radars; if he can get Nyxu (The most vocal person for the argument against him,) to be quiet, then maybe everyone else will.
Would you mind elaborating on why you're not satisfied?
Right now, all I can say was I wasn't satisfied with what I read at the time. All I can remember thinking is something like 'If he's town, why would he do that?' then 'That explanation is missing something.', but I can't remember anything more specific.
If that isn't enough, I'll re-read that section and get back to you.
Well, thats going to have to do because that is the truth of it. I didnt want to get in faces, and start trading exchanges and things because I wasnt quite comfortable with how to play, nor was I fully versed in everything I needed to do.
Oddly enough, that last bit is an acceptable answer, 'I didn't feel comfortable doing so'.
I was after what you were thinking, not what was happening in the game or other external conditions.
Just remember, at the end of 'wait and see' is 'get up and do'. Otherwise it isn't 'wait and see', but 'lurky-lurky'.
I dont recall reading this anywhere, what is a QT?
QT means Quick Topic. It's a free message board service often used by game mods to facilitate private conversations between players who have such permissions; spectators watching the game; mentors guiding new players; or any other such things.
I have no more questions right now and your answers have been acceptable. I'm still wary, but it's enough for me to step back. Unvote.
It felt scummy to me that he was the first, and most often to try and push out X is town, Y is scum. Again like I said it felt like he/she was trying to influence the other players more then just offer his/her own insight.
Well, the base quote for this exchange felt like just a dump of reads to me...
Were there any specific points where you thought that Archae was trying to read pressure or influence people, other than when he asked for everyone's reads?
I wanted it noted that I found it interesting and wanted to see if anyone else shared my sentiments. Being new I am unsure of a lot of my reads so I was trying to see if any felt the same. It was a lack of direction.
Okay, I can understand being new and hesitant, but waiting for someone else to say the same thing can be read as wanting confirmation or approval.
Did you ever address, other then trying to force activity why you were so determined to run this ploy? Also did it accomplish anything you had hoped for?
Well, it worked first time round, I wasn't really determined on pushing it or anything...
And, yes, I'd say it did.
So you admit to bandwagoning? Based on what I read, and keep in mind this is my first game, bandwagoning is something only scum do.
No, when I said "my wagon" I was referring to the people voting me.
Sorry if that wasn't obvious, with the list of those who were voting me, and why I thought they were voting me.
Heh, to clarify, I haven't ignored your questions because you haven't made any (this will be of importance later). Knowing you want me o comment on your statements I will gladly do.
I guess this is true, I haven't actually asked any direct questions...
But you haven't responded to when I addressed your points in my earlier posts either.
I wish I would be as optimist as you, in fact I've learned so far that the opposite is true, I've seen so many dumb plays that I always expect the worse of the players. As I've told you before, I'm saying from personal experience "What?! how did you know I'm the cop?" or "You are wrong, Nyx isn't the cop because I'm the cop" are perfectly plausible followings to DJ's fishing.
Well, if either of those were to happen, they still would've provided us with avenues for discussion...
And I would not be adverse to lynching them, had that happened, as all that does is leave us in a WIFOM situation.
Although I had assumed that people had a basic understanding of how to play this game, It's a reasonable explanation for why you reacted as you did, but I think it -was- a bit of an overreaction.
No, it was directed at those listed, but if you think that it also applies to you, then by all means, take it personally...
More activity doesn't hurt.
Of course I'm trying to highlight this, I'm town. Any problem with that?
Of course I do. A statement like this serves no purpose for a townie other than to confuse and makes your entire post look bad.
If someone thinks you're scum, saying that will not change their opinion in the slightest, and makes it worse, by saying something like that.
Heh, this is the first time I'm being attacked for being "helpful", so you believe helpful players are scummy huh? That means I'm always scummy because I'm always trying to help players.
1)I've never been attacked before for "not paying attention to the thread", first because that's not a scumtell, second because people usually says "DRey only pay attention as scum", see Modern Family for an example on this (btw Void and Parinoid were on that game and can vouch for me).
Well, just seemed that way, for example, when you asked me about my games, and I gave them to you in my next post, only for you to ask again.
Defending yourself using your own meta is... not a very convincing argument.
If you're aware of this trait, you can take advantage of it.
2)Once and for all I'm not lurking, I'm not lacking posts, I'm not stalling. I'm on vacation and I've traveled 3.000 KM to judge a GP in another city, that's the reason I've been absent for a week. Geez, even considering my long absence the only players that have more posts than me at this point are Nyxu, Deathjoey, Wessel, Archae and parinoid.
I never accused you of this, I'm aware that you've been busy. People do have lives. I appologise if it came off like that.
3)The bolded is the most interesting one, because you've never mentioned it before neither asked me any question I've missed. You are just repeating a thing Misting has said that even he admitted to be wrong. Therefore trying to deflect on me for bogus reasons. The best part is while I'm suddenly the biggest suspect in your opinion, you refuse to vote on me, why are you afraid to vote me DJ?
I think that was badly worded, rather than questions, you didn't comment on my responses to your questions.
I don't refuse to vote on you, I'm just not voting when I'm not sure of my vote.
You're my biggest suspect, due to lack of other suspects this early in the game, not just "suddenly".
Why must I vote you?
Are you trying to goad me into voting you?
Why would you do this? So you can use this to say I was just bandwagoning you later?
But I'm the most important person here, at least for me. Anyway, people always accused me of grandstanding but I don't agree that's a scumtell at all, in fact I think trying to blend in with overall consensus is much scummier than being splashy.
I think he was referring more about how you promised all these huge reads when you got back, and never really delivered.
This bit doesn't pertain to the above argument, I just noticed that he had cut part of Nyxu's quote when he posted this.
Maybe I'm reading into it too much, but Nyxu's comment was referring to the bit over "Reads vs. Information," while DeathJoey seems to have deconstructed it to try and get Nyxu off of his back.
I cut off the quote because it... was irrelevant, and I was just agreeing to his statement of arguing semantics. I felt no need to include the line preceding that, which was just arguing semantics.
I haven't followed this game at all so I have no idea what's going on. I will try to read it sometime today. Don't be as excessively active as you were so far or it will take too long.
Why is this game so slow?
Is there someone who thinks McDonald was scum? Step out so I can OMGUS you.
Unvote whoever I am voting
Hellos and welcome Vitek.
Are you scum?
Are you replacing in for scum?
Why are you denying it?
Are you scum?
Still working on my responses, but for now, here's a theory I'll toss - is it possible that Popsucker got a mafia role, got intimidated, and replaced out? I entertain this because ljossberir (one of the scum in Ghost Story who replaced out) was similar to Popsucker in terms of Day 1.
That's weak, I've found that scum are more likely to replace out after being pressured.
In my only experience with replacing a non-poster I ended up being town. I also remember someone saying Popsucker stopped posting right before this game started, so he may have left the site before even reading his role PM.
Anyway if Popsucker end ups flipping scum you are very very likely town.
Perhaps to try to drop of other's radars; if he can get Nyxu (The most vocal person for the argument against him,) to be quiet, then maybe everyone else will.
I guess this is true, I haven't actually asked any direct questions...
But you haven't responded to when I addressed your points in my earlier posts either.
Please quote then again, I will gladly address everything you want me to.
Well, if either of those were to happen, they still would've provided us with avenues for discussion...
And I would not be adverse to lynching them, had that happened, as all that does is leave us in a WIFOM situation.
Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm getting from this you were actually aware and fine with a cop outing himself in response to your "Nyx is the cop" just because it's "avenue for discussion"? Worse still you would want lynching the claimed cop if that happened because of the WIFOM? Are you actually claiming scum?
Of course I do. A statement like this serves no purpose for a townie other than to confuse and makes your entire post look bad.
If someone thinks you're scum, saying that will not change their opinion in the slightest, and makes it worse, by saying something like that.
A statement like that is completely null and void. It doesn't make one look townish or scummier by any means, if you think saying "I"m town" is indicative of scum you are either not very bright or purposely trying to smear me.
Well, just seemed that way, for example, when you asked me about my games, and I gave them to you in my next post, only for you to ask again.
Defending yourself using your own meta is... not a very convincing argument.
If you're aware of this trait, you can take advantage of it.
I agree self-meta is almost worthless, but there's a key difference in scum using self-meta than town using self-meta. Scum uses self-meta mainly to prove points "John is scum because from my meta he does those things as scum". I wasn't doing that, I'm not trying to highlight my meta to prove things, I'm using meta to show that things I've being accused of aren't indicative of me being scum, that's bull, one cannot be accused of "taking advantage" of things he haven't brought up in the first place.
I don't refuse to vote on you, I'm just not voting when I'm not sure of my vote.
Why must I vote you?
Are you trying to goad me into voting you?
Why would you do this? So you can use this to say I was just bandwagoning you later?
Exactly this, a vote throwed can't be erased, it goes for posterity, if I'm lynched or NKed people will know I'm town and the ones who voted me will look bad. The fact that you both:
a)Says I'm your biggest suspect
b)Yet refuses to vote me, afraid of the repercussions of badwagoning me.
Proves you have inside information. You know I'm town, you know you will look bad when I flip if you had heavy participation in my lynch (like being the first voter on my wagon that you are afraid of :rolleyes:) therefore you are trying to avoid voting me because of that, maybe waiting to see if my wagon will pick up steam before commiting into it.
Town votes on their biggest suspect, if you don't vote your biggest suspect who do you want to lynch? the second biggest suspect? your towniest read? It makes no sense if you are town and that's because you are not one, you are scum.
I think he was referring more about how you promised all these huge reads when you got back, and never really delivered.
You mixed things up, I promised my reads before travelling and I gave them right after people answered my questions that's a long time ago. People just didn't like my reads very much.
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I've noticed something very important on Wessel's recent post, I'm not pretty convinced he's scum and probably with DJ. Case coming next.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Misting:
Why is a smear an indication of a player's alignment?
He was being very vindictive of Nyxu, to the point where I thought he was trying to get Nyxu lynched on basis other than Nyxu's own statements. That is something that only a scum would do. I am sorry if I am using smear terminology incorrectly.
Huh? this is completely strange, Nyxu was a town read of me at that point of time, I certainly wasn't trying to throw suspition on a person I think is town (in fact the towniest of all). My question was also very relevant because when someone labels himself as a newbie I expect them to play badly and/or not know the nuances of this game, Nyx was showing great familiarity, that was the only thing that made me wonder if he was not fooling me by being a gimmick or receiving adicional help from outside sources (a QT for example). Actually I still find hard to believe he's a complete newbie (I think he's a gimmick or Naka :p).
Because he had posted just before me and I noticed all his posts so far had been excuses for not posting. I didn't even notice Archae was a player at that point (and I'm pretty certain other players haven't even posted back there. :p)
We will have to disagree on this because I think my post was full of content, I don't know if bebo had more posts than me back there, but he certainly hadn't more content than me.
I think you are misundertanding me, I'm not saying "please write scummy posts, because I want to mislynch you" far from it. My point was: new players usually get afraid of posting, maybe because they fear the repercussions, maybe because they are afraid of being pressured and screwing up. So they tend to lurk or fencesit too much and that puts even more pressure and facilitate the game for scum. I've learned from ZDS (one of the best players on this site) that all mislynches are not exclusive responsability of the mislynchee, but mostly of the town. The responsability of correctly identifying noob scum or noob town lies on the town, the mafia has limited voting and interference on lynches. Therefore when one is truthful in what the feel or say they have more chance of being correctly identified. When town tries to be smart or post things he thinks "are right" but not exactly in what he believes, people notice the forced tone of posts or maybe inconsistencies and things go badly. Therefore I say to all the new players: post, post and post. Do not fear posting because the more you post the better for town, even if you are scum.
I wish I would be as optimist as you, in fact I've learned so far that the opposite is true, I've seen so many dumb plays that I always expect the worse of the players. As I've told you before, I'm saying from personal experience "What?! how did you know I'm the cop?" or "You are wrong, Nyx isn't the cop because I'm the cop" are perfectly plausible followings to DJ's fishing.
Thank you, I can accept this, even if we disagree on some points. I eagerly await the response to the rest of my argument.
Proves you have inside information. You know I'm town, you know you will look bad when I flip if you had heavy participation in my lynch (like being the first voter on my wagon that you are afraid of :rolleyes:) therefore you are trying to avoid voting me because of that, maybe waiting to see if my wagon will pick up steam before commiting into it.
Town votes on their biggest suspect, if you don't vote your biggest suspect who do you want to lynch? the second biggest suspect? your towniest read? It makes no sense if you are town and that's because you are not one, you are scum.
The issue with this is that for us to accept this argument, we also have to know that you are town, which we do not. Without that, this is just speculation.
I've noticed something very important on Wessel's recent post, I'm not pretty convinced he's scum and probably with DJ. Case coming next.
Really now? You know what happens now, right? If you don't give some big, grand read, we are all going to attack you again :p.
I find the case against Mindslavor interesting, and will have to give it a closer look.
What I'm confused by is that one of Wessel's shortest posts is the lynchpin (no pun intended) of drey's new read. Waiting with baited breath for his case.
Also looking forward to dj changing my opinion on his content to post ratio.
It seems scummy to me. A scum would rather not have to respond to questioning, and it seems like he did it to avoid questioning.
Perhaps to try to drop of other's radars; if he can get Nyxu (The most vocal person for the argument against him,) to be quiet, then maybe everyone else will.
Why would scum want to avoid questions? This is a game of questioning after all.
Do you believe that the others player would remain quiet if that had happened? If yes, then please explain in detail.
Right now, all I can say was I wasn't satisfied with what I read at the time. All I can remember thinking is something like 'If he's town, why would he do that?' then 'That explanation is missing something.', but I can't remember anything more specific.
If that isn't enough, I'll re-read that section and get back to you.
What do you believe was missing from the explanation?
He was being very vindictive of Nyxu, to the point where I thought he was trying to get Nyxu lynched on basis other than Nyxu's own statements. That is something that only a scum would do. I am sorry if I am using smear terminology incorrectly.
Please quote the posts where you saw the vindictiveness.
Why is town not capable of doing the same?
Don’t worry about terminology. It’s slightly different from player to player IMO. I wasn’t challenging the diction choice. I was merely wondering what you saw.
Vitek:
“Do you think MindSlavor and parinoid are possible as scumteam?”
Not to sure at this point. I would need to see more posts from both of them.
Do you believe that a parinoid/Mindslavor scum team exists? If yes, then please explain.
@Mindslavor: Here are a few examples of Wessel being 'distant' (i.e. giving fodder for attacks without making them, subtly putting down others' opinions, using what I perceive as sarcasm, etc.), as I put it:
Before I answer that eloquent, deep, and insightful question, can you tell me why you qualified my analysis as 'awful', and how you deduced from my analysis that I would be mafia?
You don't mind pinkfloyd possibly taking a more negative stance against you as a result of this ad hom?
...Yes. I think most people know that, but thanks for trying to seem townie anyway.
I'm happy for you that you are so confident. I'd be most interested in your reads.
I'm hoping DRey will pick up his game again, but I don't hold out too much hope yet. He should have been easily able to reread the whole thread, made an essay about it, and have gotten the Nobel Prize for Literature for it in the time since he came back.
Also, while I used the term 'major active player' to signify what Lord_McDonalds was not, it doesn't mean others really are. It was more of a hyperbole to show why I thought we wouldn't lose much by lynching Lord_McD, even if he is town.
Also, can you explain why you refer to other players as scum or scummy, but only ever deny yourself being 'scum' (note the quotation marks). For reference, here is a post in which that happens: Very consistent.
Going back to my assessment of possible scum, I no longer see parinoid as potential scum. His recent play has been right on, providing very keen insights.
Just remember, at the end of 'wait and see' is 'get up and do'. Otherwise it isn't 'wait and see', but 'lurky-lurky'.
It feels like you are trying to push the action on me despite saying you are satisfied. Why would you do this if you weren't out to hunt me and I satisfied your questioning?
Quote from DeathJoey »
Were there any specific points where you thought that Archae was trying to read pressure or influence people, other than when he asked for everyone's reads?
He seemed to be the one most often trying to put the voting wagon back on track. Everytime things slowed down he was most eager it appeared to reclaim his suspects and remind people to do the same.
Quote from DeathJoey »
Uhh... if that's what you really think then, I'll echo wessel and ask that you make a case, so that I may have something to "defend" against.
The cop hunting deal. It may just be me, but I cannot find a single good reason a townie would do this as it doesn't benefit us. This game has been rather unique to everything I have read thus far though.
Quote from Mindslavor »
You just wanted to get reactions but you have never followed with your conclusions, in fact you are not doing anything since the pressure pilled up.
Quote from DeathJoey »
Well, I guess I'll need to address this when I have a bit more time.
Ok, well this is what I have been waiting on to follow up on my read with. I informed you I wanted to see more content, and then asked what I wanted to see it on. Your dodging of this question despite putting a lot of time and effort into your post strikes me as scummy.
Quote from Deathjoey »
Uhh... if that's what you really think then, I'll echo wessel and ask that you make a case, so that I may have something to "defend" against.
My case is it still doesnt make sense for town to cop hunt day one. Furthermore you have blown that off, and my request to your conclusions. So I will ask again, why have you not followed with your conclusions, especially since the pressure has piled up?
Quote from Vitek »
He had way to know Nyxu is one.
He has (a) way, or (no) way? How would town know other town or power roles? That is why we question everyone correct?
Quote from Vitek »
Do you imply that you killed the thread?
I was voted most likely to kill threads my senior year of high school.
Quote from Vitek »
Not to ruffle feathers, keep distance and not to get into confrontations are usually scum tactics that allow them to avoid geting under scrutiny.
I have given my thoughts on this, and they were enough for parinoid. What I dont get is why you still feel persistent on them? Treading water and learning, and just purposely ignoring or dodging questions are two different things. I dont feel a scum would answer parinoid, or even try to be direct with him unless he was confident.
Quote from Wessel »
In other words, you're asking me why Lord_McDonalds and not, say, DRey or DeathJoey? My reads are awful this game so far (due to the limited play from everyone), and I'm less willing to lose DRey or DeathJoey than Lord_McD, despite them being part of my leaning scum list. It's more pragmatism with Lord_McD - if we lose him, we do get some info, but we wouldn't lose a major active player if he turns out to be town.
Upon re-reading this in Vitek's catalog of posts, his reasoning was sound. What info do you gain other then his own alignment? And if he is town which was entirely possible at that point, then the town loses 2 people after the NK and is in the same starting block they were before the lynch.
Quote from Vitek »
There is difference between lurker and someone who completely disappears (or never appear for that matter)
I believe I said about the same thing a few comments above.
Quote from Vitek »
While this is normal, it is bad when he did it?
He seems to be the only one doing it. Consistently. This made me wary of him being scum because it is possible he wants to keep seeing where his name, and his other scums names appear so he can try to steer the discussion aroud him. It is possible I am reading way too much into this.
Quote from Vitek »
And I find such statements more likely coming from scum.
Ok Why? WHy would I not want to waste my vote, or making the game easier for scum when I am town?
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Also, can you explain why you refer to other players as scum or scummy, but only ever deny yourself being 'scum' (note the quotation marks). For reference, here is a post in which that happens
Your post was not there when I began mine, however :
What is the difference between denying being scum, and admitting being town? What is your thought process behind this? I am town, but saying I am not scum is the same thing is it not?
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He seemed to be the one most often trying to put the voting wagon back on track. Everytime things slowed down he was most eager it appeared to reclaim his suspects and remind people to do the same.
[...]
He seems to be the only one doing it. Consistently. This made me wary of him being scum because it is possible he wants to keep seeing where his name, and his other scums names appear so he can try to steer the discussion aroud him. It is possible I am reading way too much into this.
Your opinion of me seems very at odds. You know that I tried to get things on track in a slow game, and that my request was 'normal'. As far as I can remember, I asked for all players' suspicions once, yet you say I have done it 'Everytime things slowed down' and 'Consistently'. Can you quantify 'Everytime' and "Consistently' for me?
Also, why did you not have an issue with Vitek and/or Void posting lists of their reads (if indeed you did not)?
EBWODP: Your post was not there when I began mine, however :
What is the difference between denying being scum, and admitting being town? What is your thought process behind this? I am town, but saying I am not scum is the same thing is it not?
The issue is that you always used the quote marks around the word scum (as in: 'scum' rather than scum), and would only do so when referring to yourself. I'm wondering why that is the case. Let me know if that's still unclear.
Can you quantify 'Everytime' and "Consistently' for me?
Sure
You make 2 posts in the first 70, one saying you are here, the other is this #67 then here is another you reiterate that here
You also consistently point out people missing on others lists IE here and again here, you have been the only one that I recall seeing pointing out omissions in others lists. This has all led me to think either you are really excited about peoples lists and seeing them, or you want to see how you and your scum buddies are falling in these lists so that you can attempt to steer the heat in a direction. Again, perhaps I am reading too much into it, but it is my hunch. All of these posts could be done by a townie, they just caught my eye.
Also, why did you not have an issue with Vitek and/or Void posting lists of their reads (if indeed you did not)?
I did not because they replaced in, needed to get content moving and give their insights on the first 13 pages to help move the game along. The long list of content given and opinions leads me to believe they are both leaning town.
The issue is that you always used the quote marks around the word scum (as in: 'scum' rather than scum), and would only do so when referring to yourself. I'm wondering why that is the case. Let me know if that's still unclear.
It is not unclear. In all three instances I am letting parinoid know I am not 'scum'. I used the quotations to highlight the word because I am re-quoting to him the slander he used against me. The rest of the time I am not quoting anyone using scum directed at me, and am either generally saying it, or quoting it to someone else, in which case it is in their quote box.
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That's weak, I've found that scum are more likely to replace out after being pressured.
In my only experience with replacing a non-poster I ended up being town. I also remember someone saying Popsucker stopped posting right before this game started, so he may have left the site before even reading his role PM.
Anyway if Popsucker end ups flipping scum you are very very likely town.
I'm pretty sure Popsucker read his role PM - I remember in Arcadic's list he was listed as bolded.
--------
I've noticed something very important on Wessel's recent post, I'm not pretty convinced he's scum and probably with DJ. Case coming next.
What do you mean by "I'm not pretty convinced he's scum and probably with DJ"? I read that part without the "not". Can you please explain that to me?
EBWODP: Also you use the same quotations here. Although you are referring to your own wording. I used them to quote the term directed at me. You used them to quote the term you used directed at Wessel.
Quote from Archae »
@Mindslavor: Here are a few examples of Wessel being 'distant' (i.e. giving fodder for attacks without making them, subtly putting down others' opinions, using what I perceive as sarcasm, etc.),
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You make 2 posts in the first 70, one saying you are here, the other is this #67 then here is another you reiterate that here
You also consistently point out people missing on others lists IE here and again here, you have been the only one that I recall seeing pointing out omissions in others lists. This has all led me to think either you are really excited about peoples lists and seeing them, or you want to see how you and your scum buddies are falling in these lists so that you can attempt to steer the heat in a direction. Again, perhaps I am reading too much into it, but it is my hunch. All of these posts could be done by a townie, they just caught my eye.
Why do you think my trying to keep track of everything is scummy? I find it easier to scumhunt when I read something that feels 'off' to me. This is why I like to post my thoughts (read: my second post in which I give my reads; the one with which you take issue), and also why I am taken aback that my posting in this manner is seen as scummy by you. This is also why I decided to ask other players opinions as the game was stagnating.
I did not because they replaced in, needed to get content moving and give their insights on the first 13 pages to help move the game along. The long list of content given and opinions leads me to believe they are both leaning town.
That is fair, and highlights why I do not understand your thrust of my scumminess. I provided content to first give my opinions, and then to keep the game moving along, and you took issue with both of them. I guess it differs as they just replaced in.
It is not unclear. In all three instances I am letting parinoid know I am not 'scum'. I used the quotations to highlight the word because I am re-quoting to him the slander he used against me. The rest of the time I am not quoting anyone using scum directed at me, and am either generally saying it, or quoting it to someone else, in which case it is in their quote box.
I understand what you're saying, but why is it slander when it comes from someone else about you and not when you are talking about others? Are you confident that the people you are calling scum and/or scummy are necessarily scum, and therefore it is not slander? If someone accused you of being a member of the mafia team, would you reply that you are not 'a member of the mafia team' (with the quotes)?
For the record I don't like how Archae attacked you about mine and Void's list. If I am not wrong you attacked him for pushing people into making scum lists, not for making them., so it is strange he feels you should mind we did them. Even more with the fact replacements did them, because they need to get into game somehow and I certainly haven't done it because Archae asked me to but because I wanted it.
I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I am going to say two things about this. First, Mindslavor has attacked me for making a post giving my feelings on players (whether I thought them to be townie/scummy), as well as for my asking others to give their ideas due to the game slowing. Second, I have no issue with Mindslavor not objecting to you and Void giving your thoughts (and was happy you both did provide those views, as well); I was only trying to find the reasoning behind Mindslavor's issue with my doing so, since it is at odds with his other main issue regarding me, as I see it.
Nope, not Noxoss. I don't think responding to your commentary on my early posts is requisite, mostly because you seemed to pass me up for other players as you read on. If you disagree I will, however, happily oblige. Though I would ask the favour of being asked questions if that is the case.
Still waiting on DRey. Anyone have a projected ETA on his read?
Why would scum want to avoid questions? This is a game of questioning after all.
Do you believe that the others player would remain quiet if that had happened? If yes, then please explain in detail.
Well, for that very reason. This is a game of questions, but the scum's goal is to trick, deceive, and therefore survive, correct? So, by sliding through questions and seeming unnoticed, they are given a respite, while the town follows other lynches that weren't dropped.
I cut off the quote because it... was irrelevant, and I was just agreeing to his statement of arguing semantics. I felt no need to include the line preceding that, which was just arguing semantics.
It wasn't just that portion of the post itself, but the post in general. You answered some smaller bits of Nyxu's post, then left big portions alone.
Well, for that very reason. This is a game of questions, but the scum's goal is to trick, deceive, and therefore survive, correct? So, by sliding through questions and seeming unnoticed, they are given a respite, while the town follows other lynches that weren't dropped.
That's one way to look at it, but let me ask you a one more question:
Would the scum want questions asked to them in order to appear more town?
Because the game is so slow, I was thinking about voting Lord_McDonalds. It might shake things up a little.
Who's in favor and who's against lynching Lord_McD?
And what was LMD response to this pressure? He simply replaced out.
When you suspect someone, puts pressure on them, and they replace out, what's the expected follow up? If it was me I would suspect LMD even more than before, but let's see how Wessel followed up to that.
EWP: It also of note Wessel never voted LMD, he's just gauging the player base sensation about LMD. Looks he's trying to validate his vote before commiting.
In other words, you're asking me why Lord_McDonalds and not, say, DRey or DeathJoey? My reads are awful this game so far (due to the limited play from everyone), and I'm less willing to lose DRey or DeathJoey than Lord_McD, despite them being part of my leaning scum list. It's more pragmatism with Lord_McD - if we lose him, we do get some info, but we wouldn't lose a major active player if he turns out to be town.
He explicitly says here me and DJ are more valuable than LMD, meaning we are better/activer/experienced players therefore a riskier lynch.
Firstly, you're putting me in the scum list for not agreeing on something. Secondly, this again doesn't seem honest. And thirdly, your statement that you would never lynch me D1 is garbage for all kinds of reasons.
Let's analyse this, because this is very telling imho.
1)Wessel wanted to lynch LMD for not being active enough, in response to this, LMD ragequits the game. And right after that Wessel just ignore that and turns his attention to one of the most active players, yeah that's totally consistent.
2)Wessel says he's voting me because I'm not being truthful, but there's a big problem with that. He knows I'm telling the truth because I've said the very same thing in another game about him and flipped town, heck I think I've said this in a lot of previous games as I usually find Wessel's insights good.
3)He's showing cognitive dissonance in the highest level. First he says "let's lynch the weaker player because DRey is too valuable to lose D1" soon after I say a similar "let's lynch the DJ player because Wessel is too valuable to lose D1" Wessel comes and says "vote DRey, because that's reasoning is garbage". Therefore you are attacking me for something you clearly don’t actually believe given your previous stance.
We would gain info from other lynches as well. But for example from Lord_McDonalds specifically because he has been the target of a few people. If he's scum, we would get a better view of other people's alignments due to the interactions and the way they attacked (or did not attack) Lord_McD. If he's town, we would learn for example from those who chose not to attack (or attacked him from strange reasons) Lord_McD.
That's completely wrong, LMD has a whooping 4 posts! If we lynch him today we would gain... nothing. No interactions, no posts, no reread, nothing, because it's impossible to try to draw connections with a player that haven't simply done anything. If LMD flipped scum we would be just slightly better than today, and if he flipped town, we would be left with zero leads plus one town less. Considering the chances of Wessel being scum are now 99% I strongly oppose a LMD Vitek lynch.
Also, while I used the term 'major active player' to signify what Lord_McDonalds was not, it doesn't mean others really are. It was more of a hyperbole to show why I thought we wouldn't lose much by lynching Lord_McD, even if he is town.
This is the point of view of scum, because if you are town, there's no way for you to know that, LMD could be the cop meaning he would lose a ton if he died. From a scum POV surely you don't lose much... for obvious reasons.
unvote, vote Wessel
EWP: Yeah, I know I'm contradicting myself because "I don't like to lynch Wessel D1", but things have changed, I'm confident this is the best lynch, and we will get loads of info on others players (DJ, Vitek) with his lynch.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Coincidence? I don't think so, but you can take your own conclusions considering.
a)Wessel promply jumped into Nyx on the "Nyx x DJ" early debate.
b)Wessel quickly unvoted Nyx without much explanation if any.
c)Wessel never gave us a reason for thinking DJ was town neither scum, in fact looks like he's avoiding to talk about him, mostly repeating the mantra "DJ actions are a null tell".
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
It feels like you are trying to push the action on me despite saying you are satisfied. Why would you do this if you weren't out to hunt me and I satisfied your questioning?
Point of objection: I never said I was satisfied, I said your answers were acceptable and since I had no more questions, I had no reason to pressure you further. But as I said, I'm still wary.
I'm still suspicious of you, and Archae was/is still asking you questions. I'm also interested in the answers.
To answer your question: That specific line was advice. If you play the wait-and-see game too much to stops being wait-and-see and starts being lurking. You're getting more active now, so it's less applicable to this game and more a general observation.
It is not unclear. In all three instances I am letting parinoid know I am not 'scum'. I used the quotations to highlight the word because I am re-quoting to him the slander he used against me. The rest of the time I am not quoting anyone using scum directed at me, and am either generally saying it, or quoting it to someone else, in which case it is in their quote box.
What do you believe was missing from the explanation?
I reread and it's hard to put into words.
He claimed he did it for reactions and denies the potential harm it could do to the town.
People really are dumb enough to randomly claim for the littlest of reasons. I've only completed 3 games and I've already seen it happen more than once.
I can't see anything there that reconciles those two statements, I guess that's what's missing.
Really not liking DRey at the moment. His recent interactions with Wessel shows that DRey is in his own little world. I'm baffled at some of the accusations against Wessel.
I'm waiting to see how DRey responds to Wessel before I place my vote.
but why is it slander when it comes from someone else about you and not when you are talking about others? Are you confident that the people you are calling scum and/or scummy are necessarily scum, and therefore it is not slander?
I never said it wasnt. As many have stated this is a game of actions and re-actions.
If someone accused you of being a member of the mafia team, would you reply that you are not 'a member of the mafia team' (with the quotes)?
I dont know. I work 2 jobs and have rotating 12 hour shifts. Sometimes I re-read my posts, sometimes I just snap post. I didnt realize consistency was so important in this game.
This is a game of questions, but the scum's goal is to trick, deceive, and therefore survive, correct? So, by sliding through questions and seeming unnoticed, they are given a respite, while the town follows other lynches that weren't dropped.
Here it is again. You are telling people how you feel, but backtracking yourself into saying, maybe I am wrong. Like you are covering yourself should anyone want to dispute you, before they even have a chance.
I don't like Prophylaxis' vote on me, as it kind of feels like he jumped in from nowhere then never addressed the defense I provided, but he said he'd put something up not too long ago, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.
And again, you seem to be taking a wait and see, point things out but not delve deep into them unless pressured.
Hmm . . . Alright, I can see why you (DJ) stuck on with the cop thing. Although I do personally think that it wasn't the best way to start discussion (Although it obviously worked) it seemed to not be harmful, or have any malicious intent behind it.
I'd like to see DRey's response . . .
DRey outright disputed you on this, yet you didnt follow up on this. Why ?
and I'm not questioning DeathJoey's motives anymore, although I'm not sure he's town.
Here you are again, fence sitting. You never actually address DeathJoey again, yet you are not sure about him. In fact I re-read the entire thread and you only ask one direct question the entire game. Here :
I said that to say that no townie would search for the cop on Day 1. I wasn't referring to myself, but townies in general.
When you say you don't like my posts now, is there a specific point after which you stopped liking them, or do you just not like my posts since you've read the thread?
Which even here feels like you are just trying to set up defense for yourself without actually pressuring anybody. Also, when proph calls you out on saying "from a town perspective", you give the defense of not referring to yourself, but never actually say you are town. Why?
I think this is more an attempt by 22bebo to show that he thinks DeathJoey is scum without going so far as to saying so (instead keeping to words like suspicious).
Even Wessel here notices you are implying things, but never actually moving on them, and like I said I didnt see you re-address DeathJoey at any point in the game after this.
Just realized I didn't explain why I found them to be somewhat-scummy:
DRey - He seems to be hinting these big, glamorous things that he never really puts out on. Feels like he's trying to seem more important than he might really be.
DeathJoey - While I've come to terms with his "Cop Hunt," I do think some of his posts since then have read "No, no, that's not what it was, scumhunt somewhere else now."
LordMcDonalds - He just hasn't posted a whole lot, but the posts he has made have been very vindictive.
I bolded the two suspicious parts. Again both of them you are giving vague opinions on the players, without actually ever making a commitment, or following up on your reads and making a case or asking questions.
So basically I feel like you are outing yourself with your quote. You have around 12 actual posts in the game and none of them contain anything towards helping us scumhunt. All of the posts are wait and see, non-committal style. Sliding under the radar and not drawing too much attention to yourself while posting just enough to have your name seen every page or two. Therefor by your reasoning alone, that the scum would be doing this, and this does seem like it is what you are doing I
vote 22bebo
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EBWODP: I forgot to mention, at certain points in the game both Misting and Void noted the same lack of posting and content from you, I would be happy to find those quotes again if need be.
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As I said before, it was my gut read. Your posts just seemed to jump out at me more.
So no tangible reason, then?
I never said it wasnt. As many have stated this is a game of actions and re-actions.
Are you saying you have potentially slandered other players?
I dont know. I work 2 jobs and have rotating 12 hour shifts. Sometimes I re-read my posts, sometimes I just snap post. I didnt realize consistency was so important in this game.
Scum are trying to hide, lie, and mislead. Behavioral analysis is very helpful, since it can see through those lies; so yes, consistency can be important, especially when revealing a scum's guilty conscience.
Here it is again. You are telling people how you feel, but backtracking yourself into saying, maybe I am wrong. Like you are covering yourself should anyone want to dispute you, before they even have a chance.
And again, you seem to be taking a wait and see, point things out but not delve deep into them unless pressured.
While this is normal, it still kinda feels like he is the main one interested in where everyone's reads are falling. Could be wanting to gauge where the most/least heat lies and tries to push action because of it.
I wanted it noted that I found it interesting and wanted to see if anyone else shared my sentiments. Being new I am unsure of a lot of my reads so I was trying to see if any felt the same. It was a lack of direction.
He seems to be the only one doing it. Consistently. This made me wary of him being scum because it is possible he wants to keep seeing where his name, and his other scums names appear so he can try to steer the discussion aroud him. It is possible I am reading way too much into this.
You also consistently point out people missing on others lists IE here and again here, you have been the only one that I recall seeing pointing out omissions in others lists. This has all led me to think either you are really excited about peoples lists and seeing them, or you want to see how you and your scum buddies are falling in these lists so that you can attempt to steer the heat in a direction. Again, perhaps I am reading too much into it, but it is my hunch. All of these posts could be done by a townie, they just caught my eye.
2)Wessel says he's voting me because I'm not being truthful, but there's a big problem with that. He knows I'm telling the truth because I've said the very same thing in another game about him and flipped town, heck I think I've said this in a lot of previous games as I usually find Wessel's insights good.
This is terrible. Why are you defending yourself while attempting to attack Wessel? Also, just because you have done something as town before does not preclude your doing the same thing as scum. We(ssel) can't know anything about your alignment as town.
Wessel
Did you single out Lord_McDonalds (now Vitek) because you did not mind losing him/her if s/he were to flip town, or to get him/her more involved in the game (or both)?
A single word does not a complete argument make. Without any other indicators to back it up, Archae's post merely grasps at the only semantic error of using when instead of if. In fact, I find it more interesting that he uses the past tense "When [names] flipped town" , and would agree with Archae's apparent suspicion more if, say, Wessel had used future tense "When [names] flip town"
Worth bringing back into light is the fact that this is not the first instance of someone referring to possible events as if they've already happened.
A single word does not a complete argument make. Without any other indicators to back it up, Archae's post merely grasps at the only semantic error of using when instead of if. In fact, I find it more interesting that he uses the past tense "When [names] flipped town" , and would agree with Archae's apparent suspicion more if, say, Wessel had used future tense "When [names] flip town"
Worth bringing back into light is the fact that this is not the first instance of someone referring to possible events as if they've already happened.
Good response. Also, Wessel's first language is not English and therefore could have been a language barrier as well.
Now, if Archae were to come in and explain further his reasoning, we could have more to work with and my opinion could change. Call me self-aware but I feel that my opinion of Wessel from our early interactions (his voting me, responding to my argument, and then accepting it and unvoting me), may have led me to a degree of confirmation bias that we simply cannot afford.
I was just pointing out what I saw, not making an argument out of it; I have seen Wessel as scummy so far in this game, and if s/he is indeed mafia, such a quote could be important. As I mentioned in a response to Mindslavor, such analysis can provide useful, especially later on. However, as Void pointed out, Wessel's primary language not being English could certainly be a factor here, and one I had not considered.
You're on the list in leaning town, but without reason. I must have missed it in my preview, my bad.
The reason: Your posts have come across as town. They have a good tone.
As in they have some similarities to mine.
I thought I had seen a vote on DJ in one of your posts. Sorry for the mistake.
I like the reasoning for Mindslavor. Some of his posts caught my attention as well. His more recent ones at that.
Would you mind elaborating on why you're not satisfied?
That's good reasoning for McD. I was also wary of him, but with his minimal content and being new I know it best to wait for his replacement.
Huh? this is completely strange, Nyxu was a town read of me at that point of time, I certainly wasn't trying to throw suspition on a person I think is town (in fact the towniest of all). My question was also very relevant because when someone labels himself as a newbie I expect them to play badly and/or not know the nuances of this game, Nyx was showing great familiarity, that was the only thing that made me wonder if he was not fooling me by being a gimmick or receiving adicional help from outside sources (a QT for example). Actually I still find hard to believe he's a complete newbie (I think he's a gimmick or Naka :p).
Because he had posted just before me and I noticed all his posts so far had been excuses for not posting. I didn't even notice Archae was a player at that point (and I'm pretty certain other players haven't even posted back there. :p)
We will have to disagree on this because I think my post was full of content, I don't know if bebo had more posts than me back there, but he certainly hadn't more content than me.
I think you are misundertanding me, I'm not saying "please write scummy posts, because I want to mislynch you" far from it. My point was: new players usually get afraid of posting, maybe because they fear the repercussions, maybe because they are afraid of being pressured and screwing up. So they tend to lurk or fencesit too much and that puts even more pressure and facilitate the game for scum. I've learned from ZDS (one of the best players on this site) that all mislynches are not exclusive responsability of the mislynchee, but mostly of the town. The responsability of correctly identifying noob scum or noob town lies on the town, the mafia has limited voting and interference on lynches. Therefore when one is truthful in what the feel or say they have more chance of being correctly identified. When town tries to be smart or post things he thinks "are right" but not exactly in what he believes, people notice the forced tone of posts or maybe inconsistencies and things go badly. Therefore I say to all the new players: post, post and post. Do not fear posting because the more you post the better for town, even if you are scum.
I wish I would be as optimist as you, in fact I've learned so far that the opposite is true, I've seen so many dumb plays that I always expect the worse of the players. As I've told you before, I'm saying from personal experience "What?! how did you know I'm the cop?" or "You are wrong, Nyx isn't the cop because I'm the cop" are perfectly plausible followings to DJ's fishing.
Was this directed at me?
Of course I'm trying to highlight this, I'm town. Any problem with that?
It's a long story, go read Mean Girls please. In fact I suspect replacers way more than lurkers.
Heh, this is the first time I'm being attacked for being "helpful", so you believe helpful players are scummy huh? That means I'm always scummy because I'm always trying to help players.
I'm always down to lynch some replacers, but Void is an useful player to have, he's experienced and always active meaning even if he's scum he will help us catch his teamates.
This part is very interesting.
1)I've never been attacked before for "not paying attention to the thread", first because that's not a scumtell, second because people usually says "DRey only pay attention as scum", see Modern Family for an example on this (btw Void and Parinoid were on that game and can vouch for me).
2)Once and for all [B]I'm not lurking, I'm not lacking posts, I'm not stalling.[/B] I'm on vacation and I've traveled 3.000 KM to judge a GP in another city, that's the reason I've been absent for a week. Geez, even considering my long absence the only players that have more posts than me at this point are Nyxu, Deathjoey, Wessel, Archae and parinoid.
3)The bolded is the most interesting one, because you've never mentioned it before neither asked me any question I've missed. You are just repeating a thing Misting has said that even he admitted to be wrong. Therefore trying to deflect on me for bogus reasons. The best part is while I'm suddenly the biggest suspect in your opinion, you refuse to vote on me, why are you afraid to vote me DJ?
But I'm the most important person here, at least for me. Anyway, people always accused me of grandstanding but I don't agree that's a scumtell at all, in fact I think trying to blend in with overall consensus is much scummier than being splashy.
Thank you so much for replacing Void, you are exactly the kind of player this game needs. But why do you think my game is not good? Do you disagree with my reads so far?
Good catch, in fact it's not, but I have lurkers with a passion, they make games slow, people lose interest, they are hard to read, and even if they die and flip scum it's hard for town to analyse their interactions (the best way to scumhunt imho), plus I've lost games to lurkers before (Modern family for example).
Why replacing out makes you "withdraw suspition" on a player?
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@Wessel where are you? I noticed you are posting like a madmen in another thread, why not here too? We deserve some loving too.
@Parinoid I see you have greatly evolved from Modern Family, I'm liking your questions very much, but aren't you confusing noobiness for scumminess?
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Well, thats going to have to do because that is the truth of it. I didnt want to get in faces, and start trading exchanges and things because I wasnt quite comfortable with how to play, nor was I fully versed in everything I needed to do.
I felt the others had covered it enough, and I had nothing new to add.
I dont recall reading this anywhere, what is a QT?
Really, you are calling him out for me overly helpful? This seems more scummy then his actual act to me. Feelings like your reaching for reasons because the heat is still on you.
Formerly Mindslavor
Visit Rivenor for all of the Academy's awesome artwork.
He just seems to disregard a lot of the accusations thrown at him by Nyxu as tunneling, which they may in fact be, but I just don't feel he's tried to explain his actions as much as he says.
This bit doesn't pertain to the above argument, I just noticed that he had cut part of Nyxu's quote when he posted this.
Maybe I'm reading into it too much, but Nyxu's comment was referring to the bit over "Reads vs. Information," while DeathJoey seems to have deconstructed it to try and get Nyxu off of his back.
FTFY
Still working on my responses, but for now, here's a theory I'll toss - is it possible that Popsucker got a mafia role, got intimidated, and replaced out? I entertain this because ljossberir (one of the scum in Ghost Story who replaced out) was similar to Popsucker in terms of Day 1.
Does this give you an indication of alignemnt toawrds DJ with this finding?
You believe DJ did this to get Nyxu off his back, but do you think there may have been other motives playing into this?
It really depends on how the player replaced out. If there was pressure, then it would some credence that the player could be newb scum. However, if no pressure was present, then likely the player replaced out for other reasons. I'll be going back to check on this as well, but IIRC correctly, there wasn't any pressure at the time.
Also, what does FTFY stand for? Haven't seen that one yet.
@mod can you prod people?
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
You're line of questioning leads to WIFOM; do you want me to respond to it? Again, if you're suspicious of me, okay. I'd like to see reasons I can understand, since they have so far been at odds with each other (you get on me for giving my opinions, saying I'm trying to influence others - then you object to my asking others whom they suspect, saying I'm playing more wait-and-see).
Sure. I'm posting from my phone, and will try to do it tomorrow (out of game).
I'm not sure how good parinoid's read is, but his/her more recent posts have been insightful and the points against you have been making me take another look at you. I'm not sure if that means I'm joining 'his bandwagon', but take it as you will.
@Wessel: I meant 'fingered' as in 'pointed a finger of suspicion at'.
It seems scummy to me. A scum would rather not have to respond to questioning, and it seems like he did it to avoid questioning.
Perhaps to try to drop of other's radars; if he can get Nyxu (The most vocal person for the argument against him,) to be quiet, then maybe everyone else will.
Deadline reset for August 17th unless activity warrants.
Prods will go out within 24 hours for those who need it.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
Welcome, Vitek. We look forward to your reads.
If that's the case, I don't think that's an accurate use of the word at all.
No prob.
Right now, all I can say was I wasn't satisfied with what I read at the time. All I can remember thinking is something like 'If he's town, why would he do that?' then 'That explanation is missing something.', but I can't remember anything more specific.
If that isn't enough, I'll re-read that section and get back to you.
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Don't know. Its difficult to tell them apart without poking around, so I'm poking around.
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I still find it a bit strange.
Oddly enough, that last bit is an acceptable answer, 'I didn't feel comfortable doing so'.
I was after what you were thinking, not what was happening in the game or other external conditions.
Just remember, at the end of 'wait and see' is 'get up and do'. Otherwise it isn't 'wait and see', but 'lurky-lurky'.
Fair enough.
QT means Quick Topic. It's a free message board service often used by game mods to facilitate private conversations between players who have such permissions; spectators watching the game; mentors guiding new players; or any other such things.
I have no more questions right now and your answers have been acceptable. I'm still wary, but it's enough for me to step back.
Unvote.
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Now for McD's replacement, hi Vitek.
The game isn't very large, so how about a taking a quick squizz then letting us know what you think?
Well, the base quote for this exchange felt like just a dump of reads to me...
Were there any specific points where you thought that Archae was trying to read pressure or influence people, other than when he asked for everyone's reads?
Okay, I can understand being new and hesitant, but waiting for someone else to say the same thing can be read as wanting confirmation or approval.
Well, it worked first time round, I wasn't really determined on pushing it or anything...
And, yes, I'd say it did.
Well, I guess I'll need to address this when I have a bit more time.
No, when I said "my wagon" I was referring to the people voting me.
Sorry if that wasn't obvious, with the list of those who were voting me, and why I thought they were voting me.
Uhh... if that's what you really think then, I'll echo wessel and ask that you make a case, so that I may have something to "defend" against.
I guess this is true, I haven't actually asked any direct questions...
But you haven't responded to when I addressed your points in my earlier posts either.
Well, if either of those were to happen, they still would've provided us with avenues for discussion...
And I would not be adverse to lynching them, had that happened, as all that does is leave us in a WIFOM situation.
Although I had assumed that people had a basic understanding of how to play this game, It's a reasonable explanation for why you reacted as you did, but I think it -was- a bit of an overreaction.
No, it was directed at those listed, but if you think that it also applies to you, then by all means, take it personally...
More activity doesn't hurt.
Of course I do. A statement like this serves no purpose for a townie other than to confuse and makes your entire post look bad.
If someone thinks you're scum, saying that will not change their opinion in the slightest, and makes it worse, by saying something like that.
Even those replaced without even posting?
Read Basic #39, It's how I caught tanarin
Well, just seemed that way, for example, when you asked me about my games, and I gave them to you in my next post, only for you to ask again.
Defending yourself using your own meta is... not a very convincing argument.
If you're aware of this trait, you can take advantage of it.
I never accused you of this, I'm aware that you've been busy. People do have lives. I appologise if it came off like that.
I think that was badly worded, rather than questions, you didn't comment on my responses to your questions.
I don't refuse to vote on you, I'm just not voting when I'm not sure of my vote.
You're my biggest suspect, due to lack of other suspects this early in the game, not just "suddenly".
Why must I vote you?
Are you trying to goad me into voting you?
Why would you do this? So you can use this to say I was just bandwagoning you later?
I think he was referring more about how you promised all these huge reads when you got back, and never really delivered.
I cut off the quote because it... was irrelevant, and I was just agreeing to his statement of arguing semantics. I felt no need to include the line preceding that, which was just arguing semantics.
Backtracking! Ha! You obviously meant fingered.
Hellos and welcome Vitek.
Are you scum?
Are you replacing in for scum?
Why are you denying it?
Are you scum?
In my only experience with replacing a non-poster I ended up being town. I also remember someone saying Popsucker stopped posting right before this game started, so he may have left the site before even reading his role PM.
Anyway if Popsucker end ups flipping scum you are very very likely town.
Why are you coaching DJ?
Please quote then again, I will gladly address everything you want me to.
Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm getting from this you were actually aware and fine with a cop outing himself in response to your "Nyx is the cop" just because it's "avenue for discussion"? Worse still you would want lynching the claimed cop if that happened because of the WIFOM? Are you actually claiming scum?
A statement like that is completely null and void. It doesn't make one look townish or scummier by any means, if you think saying "I"m town" is indicative of scum you are either not very bright or purposely trying to smear me.
I agree self-meta is almost worthless, but there's a key difference in scum using self-meta than town using self-meta. Scum uses self-meta mainly to prove points "John is scum because from my meta he does those things as scum". I wasn't doing that, I'm not trying to highlight my meta to prove things, I'm using meta to show that things I've being accused of aren't indicative of me being scum, that's bull, one cannot be accused of "taking advantage" of things he haven't brought up in the first place.
Exactly this, a vote throwed can't be erased, it goes for posterity, if I'm lynched or NKed people will know I'm town and the ones who voted me will look bad. The fact that you both:
a)Says I'm your biggest suspect
b)Yet refuses to vote me, afraid of the repercussions of badwagoning me.
Proves you have inside information. You know I'm town, you know you will look bad when I flip if you had heavy participation in my lynch (like being the first voter on my wagon that you are afraid of :rolleyes:) therefore you are trying to avoid voting me because of that, maybe waiting to see if my wagon will pick up steam before commiting into it.
Town votes on their biggest suspect, if you don't vote your biggest suspect who do you want to lynch? the second biggest suspect? your towniest read? It makes no sense if you are town and that's because you are not one, you are scum.
You mixed things up, I promised my reads before travelling and I gave them right after people answered my questions that's a long time ago. People just didn't like my reads very much.
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I've noticed something very important on Wessel's recent post, I'm not pretty convinced he's scum and probably with DJ. Case coming next.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
He was being very vindictive of Nyxu, to the point where I thought he was trying to get Nyxu lynched on basis other than Nyxu's own statements. That is something that only a scum would do. I am sorry if I am using smear terminology incorrectly.
Thank you, I can accept this, even if we disagree on some points. I eagerly await the response to the rest of my argument.
The issue with this is that for us to accept this argument, we also have to know that you are town, which we do not. Without that, this is just speculation.
Really now? You know what happens now, right? If you don't give some big, grand read, we are all going to attack you again :p.
I find the case against Mindslavor interesting, and will have to give it a closer look.
Also looking forward to dj changing my opinion on his content to post ratio.
Why would scum want to avoid questions? This is a game of questioning after all.
Do you believe that the others player would remain quiet if that had happened? If yes, then please explain in detail.
Was this supposed to be a mini-RVS thing?
What do you believe was missing from the explanation?
Please quote the posts where you saw the vindictiveness.
Why is town not capable of doing the same?
Don’t worry about terminology. It’s slightly different from player to player IMO. I wasn’t challenging the diction choice. I was merely wondering what you saw.
Vitek:
“Do you think MindSlavor and parinoid are possible as scumteam?”
Not to sure at this point. I would need to see more posts from both of them.
Do you believe that a parinoid/Mindslavor scum team exists? If yes, then please explain.
Going back to my assessment of possible scum, I no longer see parinoid as potential scum. His recent play has been right on, providing very keen insights.
He seemed to be the one most often trying to put the voting wagon back on track. Everytime things slowed down he was most eager it appeared to reclaim his suspects and remind people to do the same.
The cop hunting deal. It may just be me, but I cannot find a single good reason a townie would do this as it doesn't benefit us. This game has been rather unique to everything I have read thus far though.
Ok, well this is what I have been waiting on to follow up on my read with. I informed you I wanted to see more content, and then asked what I wanted to see it on. Your dodging of this question despite putting a lot of time and effort into your post strikes me as scummy.
My case is it still doesnt make sense for town to cop hunt day one. Furthermore you have blown that off, and my request to your conclusions. So I will ask again, why have you not followed with your conclusions, especially since the pressure has piled up?
He has (a) way, or (no) way? How would town know other town or power roles? That is why we question everyone correct?
I was voted most likely to kill threads my senior year of high school.
I have given my thoughts on this, and they were enough for parinoid. What I dont get is why you still feel persistent on them? Treading water and learning, and just purposely ignoring or dodging questions are two different things. I dont feel a scum would answer parinoid, or even try to be direct with him unless he was confident.
Upon re-reading this in Vitek's catalog of posts, his reasoning was sound. What info do you gain other then his own alignment? And if he is town which was entirely possible at that point, then the town loses 2 people after the NK and is in the same starting block they were before the lynch.
I believe I said about the same thing a few comments above.
He seems to be the only one doing it. Consistently. This made me wary of him being scum because it is possible he wants to keep seeing where his name, and his other scums names appear so he can try to steer the discussion aroud him. It is possible I am reading way too much into this.
Ok Why? WHy would I not want to waste my vote, or making the game easier for scum when I am town?
Formerly Mindslavor
Visit Rivenor for all of the Academy's awesome artwork.
What is the difference between denying being scum, and admitting being town? What is your thought process behind this? I am town, but saying I am not scum is the same thing is it not?
Formerly Mindslavor
Visit Rivenor for all of the Academy's awesome artwork.
Your opinion of me seems very at odds. You know that I tried to get things on track in a slow game, and that my request was 'normal'. As far as I can remember, I asked for all players' suspicions once, yet you say I have done it 'Everytime things slowed down' and 'Consistently'. Can you quantify 'Everytime' and "Consistently' for me?
Also, why did you not have an issue with Vitek and/or Void posting lists of their reads (if indeed you did not)?
The issue is that you always used the quote marks around the word scum (as in: 'scum' rather than scum), and would only do so when referring to yourself. I'm wondering why that is the case. Let me know if that's still unclear.
You make 2 posts in the first 70, one saying you are here, the other is this #67 then here is another you reiterate that here
You also consistently point out people missing on others lists IE here and again here, you have been the only one that I recall seeing pointing out omissions in others lists. This has all led me to think either you are really excited about peoples lists and seeing them, or you want to see how you and your scum buddies are falling in these lists so that you can attempt to steer the heat in a direction. Again, perhaps I am reading too much into it, but it is my hunch. All of these posts could be done by a townie, they just caught my eye.
I did not because they replaced in, needed to get content moving and give their insights on the first 13 pages to help move the game along. The long list of content given and opinions leads me to believe they are both leaning town.
It is not unclear. In all three instances I am letting parinoid know I am not 'scum'. I used the quotations to highlight the word because I am re-quoting to him the slander he used against me. The rest of the time I am not quoting anyone using scum directed at me, and am either generally saying it, or quoting it to someone else, in which case it is in their quote box.
Formerly Mindslavor
Visit Rivenor for all of the Academy's awesome artwork.
I'm pretty sure Popsucker read his role PM - I remember in Arcadic's list he was listed as bolded.
What do you mean by "I'm not pretty convinced he's scum and probably with DJ"? I read that part without the "not". Can you please explain that to me?
Formerly Mindslavor
Visit Rivenor for all of the Academy's awesome artwork.
Why do you think my trying to keep track of everything is scummy? I find it easier to scumhunt when I read something that feels 'off' to me. This is why I like to post my thoughts (read: my second post in which I give my reads; the one with which you take issue), and also why I am taken aback that my posting in this manner is seen as scummy by you. This is also why I decided to ask other players opinions as the game was stagnating.
That is fair, and highlights why I do not understand your thrust of my scumminess. I provided content to first give my opinions, and then to keep the game moving along, and you took issue with both of them. I guess it differs as they just replaced in.
I understand what you're saying, but why is it slander when it comes from someone else about you and not when you are talking about others? Are you confident that the people you are calling scum and/or scummy are necessarily scum, and therefore it is not slander? If someone accused you of being a member of the mafia team, would you reply that you are not 'a member of the mafia team' (with the quotes)?
I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I am going to say two things about this. First, Mindslavor has attacked me for making a post giving my feelings on players (whether I thought them to be townie/scummy), as well as for my asking others to give their ideas due to the game slowing. Second, I have no issue with Mindslavor not objecting to you and Void giving your thoughts (and was happy you both did provide those views, as well); I was only trying to find the reasoning behind Mindslavor's issue with my doing so, since it is at odds with his other main issue regarding me, as I see it.
Nope, not Noxoss. I don't think responding to your commentary on my early posts is requisite, mostly because you seemed to pass me up for other players as you read on. If you disagree I will, however, happily oblige. Though I would ask the favour of being asked questions if that is the case.
Still waiting on DRey. Anyone have a projected ETA on his read?
I wasn't intending to coach DJ. I was explaining other motives he might have had from it, as was asked of me by Void.
Well, for that very reason. This is a game of questions, but the scum's goal is to trick, deceive, and therefore survive, correct? So, by sliding through questions and seeming unnoticed, they are given a respite, while the town follows other lynches that weren't dropped.
It wasn't just that portion of the post itself, but the post in general. You answered some smaller bits of Nyxu's post, then left big portions alone.
Here's one that struck me:
I personally feel like this would merit more attention than throwing it into a quote with this next piece and ignoring it:
Maybe that's just me though.
That's one way to look at it, but let me ask you a one more question:
Would the scum want questions asked to them in order to appear more town?
I believe it is someone who use to play here.
@Nyx I wasn't talking about his exact last post, it was his "recentish" ones, I dont how to express that in correct english.
Ok, now let's analyse Wessel posts.
Meaning Wessel didn't really want to lynch LMD he just wanted to pressure him into posting, ok, now let's review what he said before this.
And what was LMD response to this pressure? He simply replaced out.
When you suspect someone, puts pressure on them, and they replace out, what's the expected follow up? If it was me I would suspect LMD even more than before, but let's see how Wessel followed up to that.
EWP: It also of note Wessel never voted LMD, he's just gauging the player base sensation about LMD. Looks he's trying to validate his vote before commiting.
He explicitly says here me and DJ are more valuable than LMD, meaning we are better/activer/experienced players therefore a riskier lynch.
Let's analyse this, because this is very telling imho.
1)Wessel wanted to lynch LMD for not being active enough, in response to this, LMD ragequits the game. And right after that Wessel just ignore that and turns his attention to one of the most active players, yeah that's totally consistent.
2)Wessel says he's voting me because I'm not being truthful, but there's a big problem with that. He knows I'm telling the truth because I've said the very same thing in another game about him and flipped town, heck I think I've said this in a lot of previous games as I usually find Wessel's insights good.
3)He's showing cognitive dissonance in the highest level. First he says "let's lynch the weaker player because DRey is too valuable to lose D1" soon after I say a similar "let's lynch the DJ player because Wessel is too valuable to lose D1" Wessel comes and says "vote DRey, because that's reasoning is garbage". Therefore you are attacking me for something you clearly don’t actually believe given your previous stance.
And again he's trying to deflect from DJ just because he's the more valuable to lose than LMD. Isn't that reason garbage Wessel?
That's completely wrong, LMD has a whooping 4 posts! If we lynch him today we would gain... nothing. No interactions, no posts, no reread, nothing, because it's impossible to try to draw connections with a player that haven't simply done anything. If LMD flipped scum we would be just slightly better than today, and if he flipped town, we would be left with zero leads plus one town less. Considering the chances of Wessel being scum are now 99% I strongly oppose a
LMDVitek lynch.This is the point of view of scum, because if you are town, there's no way for you to know that, LMD could be the cop meaning he would lose a ton if he died. From a scum POV surely you don't lose much... for obvious reasons.
unvote, vote Wessel
EWP: Yeah, I know I'm contradicting myself because "I don't like to lynch Wessel D1", but things have changed, I'm confident this is the best lynch, and we will get loads of info on others players (DJ, Vitek) with his lynch.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Coincidence? I don't think so, but you can take your own conclusions considering.
a)Wessel promply jumped into Nyx on the "Nyx x DJ" early debate.
b)Wessel quickly unvoted Nyx without much explanation if any.
c)Wessel never gave us a reason for thinking DJ was town neither scum, in fact looks like he's avoiding to talk about him, mostly repeating the mantra "DJ actions are a null tell".
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Point of objection: I never said I was satisfied, I said your answers were acceptable and since I had no more questions, I had no reason to pressure you further. But as I said, I'm still wary.
I'm still suspicious of you, and Archae was/is still asking you questions. I'm also interested in the answers.
To answer your question: That specific line was advice. If you play the wait-and-see game too much to stops being wait-and-see and starts being lurking. You're getting more active now, so it's less applicable to this game and more a general observation.
I'm going to interject here and restate:
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I reread and it's hard to put into words.
He claimed he did it for reactions and denies the potential harm it could do to the town.
People really are dumb enough to randomly claim for the littlest of reasons. I've only completed 3 games and I've already seen it happen more than once.
I can't see anything there that reconciles those two statements, I guess that's what's missing.
Did drey Seriously just use the "could be cop" statement?
Keeping my dj vote but jegus. fos DRey for making the could be cop argument. Why would you specifically insinuate that lmd could be cop?
I'm waiting to see how DRey responds to Wessel before I place my vote.
I never said it wasnt. As many have stated this is a game of actions and re-actions.
I dont know. I work 2 jobs and have rotating 12 hour shifts. Sometimes I re-read my posts, sometimes I just snap post. I didnt realize consistency was so important in this game.
Meaning if we are on the same line of thoughts, and I know I am town, it leads me to believe you are as well.
Indeed it is, yet
Well then why didnt you outright ask why it didnt ?
Here it is again. You are telling people how you feel, but backtracking yourself into saying, maybe I am wrong. Like you are covering yourself should anyone want to dispute you, before they even have a chance.
And again, you seem to be taking a wait and see, point things out but not delve deep into them unless pressured.
DRey outright disputed you on this, yet you didnt follow up on this. Why ?
Here you are again, fence sitting. You never actually address DeathJoey again, yet you are not sure about him. In fact I re-read the entire thread and you only ask one direct question the entire game. Here :
Which even here feels like you are just trying to set up defense for yourself without actually pressuring anybody. Also, when proph calls you out on saying "from a town perspective", you give the defense of not referring to yourself, but never actually say you are town. Why?
Even Wessel here notices you are implying things, but never actually moving on them, and like I said I didnt see you re-address DeathJoey at any point in the game after this.
I bolded the two suspicious parts. Again both of them you are giving vague opinions on the players, without actually ever making a commitment, or following up on your reads and making a case or asking questions.
So basically I feel like you are outing yourself with your quote. You have around 12 actual posts in the game and none of them contain anything towards helping us scumhunt. All of the posts are wait and see, non-committal style. Sliding under the radar and not drawing too much attention to yourself while posting just enough to have your name seen every page or two. Therefor by your reasoning alone, that the scum would be doing this, and this does seem like it is what you are doing I
vote 22bebo
Formerly Mindslavor
Visit Rivenor for all of the Academy's awesome artwork.
Formerly Mindslavor
Visit Rivenor for all of the Academy's awesome artwork.
So no tangible reason, then?
Are you saying you have potentially slandered other players?
Scum are trying to hide, lie, and mislead. Behavioral analysis is very helpful, since it can see through those lies; so yes, consistency can be important, especially when revealing a scum's guilty conscience.
This reminds me a lot of your play so far:
Emphasis mine.
DRey
This is terrible. Why are you defending yourself while attempting to attack Wessel? Also, just because you have done something as town before does not preclude your doing the same thing as scum. We(ssel) can't know anything about your alignment as town.
Wessel
Did you single out Lord_McDonalds (now Vitek) because you did not mind losing him/her if s/he were to flip town, or to get him/her more involved in the game (or both)?
'when' they flip town, not 'if'?
Hate to step in, but this is grasping.
Why do you see it as grasping?
Worth bringing back into light is the fact that this is not the first instance of someone referring to possible events as if they've already happened.
Good response. Also, Wessel's first language is not English and therefore could have been a language barrier as well.