No, it's the wording of the first sentence. You posted that as though you were scum, and only changed the point of view in the second half. Who thinks like scum? Scum do.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
No, it's the wording of the first sentence. You posted that as though you were scum, and only changed the point of view in the second half. Who thinks like scum? Scum do.
A.K.A nothing.
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No, it's the wording of the first sentence. You posted that as though you were scum, and only changed the point of view in the second half. Who thinks like scum? Scum do.
Iso told me to "lynch scum". How would YOU have worded your response?
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What are people voting me for? An exclamation point and a FOS? Seriously? I think calling scum based on punctuation is just silly. Incidentally, that's why I only FOS'd Audinho. It's silly, not scummy.
Oh right, because that's not a blatant misrepresentation and strawman of the case on you.
Quote from Megiddo »
@two neutral claims: Don't like this. Both could be holding back or straight lying, so I'm not comfortable letting them slide by. kpaca in particular is dangerous since he claims he can't be vigged. Seppel offering to play on our side if we lynch kpaca is interesting, especially since AI seems to be saying that HE will benefit from the pairing. Unless, you know, they're both neutrals.
Vote DV. Proposing D1 mass claim + worrying about an SK does not sit well with me.
If I knew who scum were... I wouldn't lynch them at all if I could help it. Why lynch my buddies? Or I suppose I could be a Cop with a scum result, in that case, yes, I'd try to lynch them.
Don't be ridiculous. That's not at all what I said, and has nothing to do with the point at hand.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I believe that the posts in question are being thanked for OoG reasons, so I wouldn't worry about it.
At first I was really confused, but he was simply mocking Iso. There's no reason to actually think he was claiming scum there.
Mocking Iso by claiming scum. That's the kind of thing that sounds like an outlandish funny joke in a scum's head, and they figure no one will believe it.
And now the sudden realization that this game is going to be pretty boring for me has occurred.
See, I have a problem with your role. If AI gets killed, you just lose? Do you stay in the game even? IMO, the town may need to kill AI any time they would kill you in order to check that. Seems sketchy overall.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
Well, Arnnaria and I are trying to help you with that problem!
I'm not trying to "help him with a problem", I'm voting for him because his stance is very anti-town. And last time I checked, anti-town players are bad for us. My vote has nothing to do with him not having fun; my vote has to do with trying to get rid of the people who would hinder our victory.
I will gladly take the vote off if Asian Invasion says (not claims, just says) keeping Seppel alive will benefit the town.
Don't be ridiculous. That's not at all what I said, and has nothing to do with the point at hand.
Um, it's not? It certainly looked like you were telling me to stop voting for Seppel and to switch my vote to Meg because Meg is Scum and we should lynch Scum over Self.
If that's NOT what you were telling me, then please clarify what you actually meant, because apparently it got lost in translation.
If that IS what you meant, then I stand by my response. You don't KNOW that Meg is Scum. You may be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt, but you don't know it for a fact. Or do you?
At any rate, whether you are convinced or not, I am not convinced. A smiley and an exclamation point are far from enough "proof" for me. Just because in one other game someone posted a smiley under similar circumstances and turned out to be Scum doesn't make for a convincing Scumtell. It takes more than a single example of something, especially something as esoteric as this is, before I'll start to accept that it just might really be a Scumtell.
Seppel though is non-Town by his own admission. And while I think it likely he is Self aligned, that's not a certainty. But even with him being Self aligned, he's still a threat to Town by his own admission. He has said multiple times that he'll work in his own best interests regardless of whether those are also Town's best interests.
Is he as big a threat as actual Mafia is? Not unless he really is Mafia instead of Self. But most Day 1 cases are built on crap and end in a Townie lynch. Yes, Day 1 Scum lynches do occur, but they are far from the norm in my experience. I'd rather lynch a guaranteed non-Town than an unknown who has a shaky at best case against them.
I'm not trying to "help him with a problem", I'm voting for him because his stance is very anti-town. And last time I checked, anti-town players are bad for us. My vote has nothing to do with him not having fun; my vote has to do with trying to get rid of the people who would hinder our victory.
I will gladly take the vote off if Asian Invasion says (not claims, just says) keeping Seppel alive will benefit the town.
I don't disagree with any of that. But it doesn't change my response either.
Regardless of the reasons we're voting for Seppel, we're "also" trying to help end his boredom.
Mocking Iso by claiming scum. That's the kind of thing that sounds like an outlandish funny joke in a scum's head, and they figure no one will believe it.
Perhaps you need to read my post again. I think you missed the very first part. You know, the part that said "If I knew who Scum were..."
Or do you disagree that the most likely reason for knowing who Scum are is because you are Scum, with a less likely possibility of because you are a Cop with a Scum result.
I suppose I could also be the Mod. Then I'd know who Scum are too. But I think it's pretty obvious that none of us is the Mod, so I didn't feel a need to express that possibility.
Actually, this forum has an above-average Day 1 scum lynching rate. But more importantly, it's OK to lynch town on Day 1. The first few game days need to be devoted to finding information.
Honestly, until LyLo, our only objective is to find the scum - killing them can wait. If that means lynching townies so we get information from associations and seeing their flip, then that is what we should do. Lynching neutrals doesn't give us any information about the scum, and especially not nearly as much as lynching a townie would.
And yes, I just said it's a good idea to lynch townies. Come at me bros.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
See, I have a problem with your role. If AI gets killed, you just lose? Do you stay in the game even? IMO, the town may need to kill AI any time they would kill you in order to check that. Seems sketchy overall.
If AI gets killed before I find him tonight (lol), then I lose and leave the game. After I find him, I just have to live to the end of the game.
If I had a daykill, I would have just used it. I don't know if we should waste the lynch like that, but I am very interested in 2-for-1ing your team and/or finding out the truth. Then again, if you are the Neutral you claim, then we are still wasting our time dealing with you.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
@Ahlyis: The mod has been a player before and we ARE playing a specialty. No it's not likely, but don't close your mind.
Ugh. That's not good.
I've only ever seen one game before where the Mod also played. They used an Alt account, but gave theirself a specific role, not a randomized one. And that role had a built in death clock which guaranteed they were dead by a certain game Day.
If it's possible for the Mod to play with an Alt account and give themselves a randomized role just like everyone else, um, well, that sounds pretty borked!
Borked though it may be, I'll keep in mind that it is POSSIBLE, though I'm going to continue to think it highly unlikely until some evidence in this game suggests otherwise.
It's ridiculously unlikely, I'm just saying that we have no idea what's going on and this is a specialty. My role isn't that extreme either. So far I've seen nothing to make this game a Specialty. That probably means there are some big twists and turns coming.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
Where did you get SK from his claim? Why are you SK hunting this early in the game?
Yeah I'm good with my vote right where its at.
@ Iso - I have reasons I can talk about as to why I find that plausable
I just find the idea that he is unkillable and neutral to be odd. He could be the cult leader. But I find it hard to believe with a roll as hard as he claimed that anyone else could win with him. Its not SK hunting but when a role is literally vomited at me feet its hard to ignore.
Actually, this forum has an above-average Day 1 scum lynching rate. But more importantly, it's OK to lynch town on Day 1. The first few game days need to be devoted to finding information.
Honestly, until LyLo, our only objective is to find the scum - killing them can wait. If that means lynching townies so we get information from associations and seeing their flip, then that is what we should do. Lynching neutrals doesn't give us any information about the scum, and especially not nearly as much as lynching a townie would.
And yes, I just said it's a good idea to lynch townies. Come at me bros.
I understand the theory behind what you are saying. And it has some merit. But the way you describe implementing it is just BEGGING to lose the game.
Waiting until LyLo to start lynching Scum just to try to gather as much info as you can is tossing the game to fate in the hopes that there's no extra NK that shows up without warning. It also requires that ALL of the non-Scum agree on what all the gathered info says about who is Scum.
I'm not against the information lynch. But usually an information lynch is done on someone that MIGHT still be scum, but even if they aren't will yield lots of good info for Town. To lynch a "confirmed" Townie just to get information takes really special circumstances.
One I can think of off hand would be lynching one of three Masons who claim that their role PMs confirm to each other that they are all Town. Lynching one to confirm the other two as Town and remove the possibility of the Scum team hiding as Masons could be the right thing to do in some circumstances. But even then, you're lynching a Townie to confirm other Townies, not to help identify Scum.
Another might be lynching the claimed Cop before LyLo. That's pretty standard mantra over at Px2, though it's not always followed (much to Town's chagrin in some cases).
But it sounds like you are suggesting willy nilly lynching Townies just to gain info, and that I don't agree with. Yes, there are times when a solid Townie being lynched can be worth it for the info gained. But that's NOT the norm.
As for Day 1, lynching a Townie isn't going to yield that much info. There hasn't been enough interactions yet. Lynching a Self may not yield any info, but it does remove a threat. And I personally think it is far better to preserve as many Townies as possible.
It's a risk/reward thing. There's no risk involved in lynching a Self aligned player on Day 1, though the gain is moderate. Lynching an unknown carries the risk of lynching a Townie that yields almost no info, with the reward of possibly lynching a Mafiate instead.
Given only weak cases, I prefer the safer route of removing the known Self who has promised to side against Town if it benefits him over the riskier route of likely taking out a Townie on a mislynch.
Fair enough, but as this is only my second game here, and the first is still ongoing, I have little choice but to rely on my Px2 experiences for guidance.
I do understand that there will be differences and that I'll have some erroneous assumptions, but overall I think Mafia is Mafia and my experience at Px2 is worth something. Most of the differences I expect to be Meta related, not Mafia fundamentals related. Though I admit that it can sometimes be hard to determine where the line is.
Do you think the "first person to hunt an SK is scum" tell is valid if the neutral claims neutral already?
I do when there is no basis to be SK hunting. Neither of your claims screams SK gambit to hide in open. Your cult theory is a better possibility and even that is a a little wonky and I think you are only thinking it cuz there have been a few Cult games this last year. More than in previous years.
I just find the idea that he is unkillable and neutral to be odd. He could be the cult leader. But I find it hard to believe with a roll as hard as he claimed that anyone else could win with him. Its not SK hunting but when a role is literally vomited at me feet its hard to ignore.
I do when there is no basis to be SK hunting. Neither of your claims screams SK gambit to hide in open. Your cult theory is a better possibility and even that is a a little wonky and I think you are only thinking it cuz there have been a few Cult games this last year. More than in previous years.
3rd party hunting is the easiest way for scum to appear like they are helping the town when in fact they are not.
haha, between you, iso and kpaca in this game, I'm pretty sure my head is going to explode from all the crazy by the end of it.
Your middle point there is good.
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Dragonheart: While your theory of killing townies while pegging scum is interesting, it simply isn't good because you can't know for certain that the people pegged as scum actually are scum until they are lynched. You could trust a cop-report, but then you'd have to trust the cop. And if the cop is confirmed in some way, you don't know if he's sane or not. Bottom line there are two many variables, aka things that could go wrong, for your plan to be feasible. Let's stick to trying to lynch scum.
I do however agree with Dragonheart that lynching neutrals gives us no info at all, unless they are lying and are not neutrals.
I don't think kpaca is lying about his neutralness, but I'm pretty sure there is something in Seppels role that he's not telling us. I got no idea what it could be though.
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Damnation studios!
P9 - VT - Win
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
All I know is you are from Clannad. I haven't got around to watching it yet.
Save yourself some pain. The anime is adapted from a game, the anime is disjointed and not very well put together to describe accurate situations. Its a beautiful anime, just not very good in the story.
Here's the thing Guardman: They are probably lying to us. They have no reason to tell the truth and simply need to convince us to go along with whatever thing that seems innocent long enough for them to win. Maybe it's neutral, maybe it's helpful, or maybe they make us lose. In case that wasn't enough,
a fairly high percentage of Neutrals turn out to be scum anyway.
It's very rarely in our best interest to help Neutrals and even then, we can't ever trust them. Life isn't fun when you are a Neutral, but that's not our problem.
If AI gets killed before I find him tonight (lol), then I lose and leave the game. After I find him, I just have to live to the end of the game.
Why would you leave the game if you can't find him, but not leave the game when 1. He gets kill after, 2 when you find him. Sense your claim is not making.
I'm not saying we should actively target townies, I'm saying that we should lynch whoever gives us the most information from their lynch. Scumhunting is still valid, and if there is a scummy player and a townie player who both would grant lots of info we should lynch the scummy one.
Sometimes I don't even know why I bother with you people. None of you seem to be open to new ideas and scum are rapidly learning to adapt to your stale meta.
I'll let you know when I've caught scum and you can believe me or lose.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
I'm not saying we should actively target townies, I'm saying that we should lynch whoever gives us the most information from their lynch. Scumhunting is still valid, and if there is a scummy player and a townie player who both would grant lots of info we should lynch the scummy one.
Sometimes I don't even know why I bother with you people. None of you seem to be open to new ideas and scum are rapidly learning to adapt to your stale meta.
I'll let you know when I've caught scum and you can believe me or lose.
Dragon, I don't fully understand your sentiments. The game has just begun. It's not like we've lynched three Townies in a row and have no information to go off of. We have suspects; people are currently voting on said suspects. But to think that there's going to be some sort of scum victory after less than 72 hours is paranoid and baseless.
The game just started and you have "endgame" mentality. Lighten up a bit.
I'm not saying we should actively target townies, I'm saying that we should lynch whoever gives us the most information from their lynch. Scumhunting is still valid, and if there is a scummy player and a townie player who both would grant lots of info we should lynch the scummy one.
No. Just no.
If we have one Scum who won't provide any extra info with their death and one Townie who will provide lots of useful info with their death... we lynch the fricking Scum! We don't lynch the Townie.
Next Day, if need be, we can lynch the Townie for their info then.
Your way, we lose a Townie, get a Day closer to LyLo, still have to lynch the known Scum and cut short the amount of info we could get from the Townie's death.
My way we lynch Scum (which by itself should be enough), extend out LyLo for a Day and still have the Townie available for the info lynch if we don't have another Scum ready to string up.
Lynching Scum should pretty much ALWAYS take precedence over informational lynches. Yes, you can always construct some specific scenario where the info lynch would be better. So what? Until that specific scenario comes up, we lynch the Scum, not the Townie.
Now, I will grant you that, like most things in Mafia, the situation becomes more and more grey when you start blurring the certainty that we've found Scum vs. the level of info expected from the informational lynch. But the general rule should still be, all things being roughly equal, lynch the Scum first, then make the informational lynch later if you still need to.
You can't information lynch later. The only time you can information lynch is early. This game is about information. You have to find the scum before they outnumber you. Lynching scum is only important when you need to stop their abilities or once the game is in LyLo.
Scum are the ones who you need to get information from. I would rather have a living scum talk to me and incriminate themselves and/or their buddies than a living townie who will scumhunt. (And be wrong the majority of the time.)
Neutrals are just bad in every scenario because they have no reason to help the town, are not trustworthy, and can't be analyzed for information like a scum.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
You can't information lynch later. The only time you can information lynch is early. This game is about information. You have to find the scum before they outnumber you. Lynching scum is only important when you need to stop their abilities or once the game is in LyLo.
Scum are the ones who you need to get information from. I would rather have a living scum talk to me and incriminate themselves and/or their buddies than a living townie who will scumhunt. (And be wrong the majority of the time.)
Neutrals are just bad in every scenario because they have no reason to help the town, are not trustworthy, and can't be analyzed for information like a scum.
You should only info lynch when you have no other viable lynches. Info lynches happen because you need the info to catch scum. If you already caught scum then an info lynch isn't needed.
You can't information lynch later. The only time you can information lynch is early. This game is about information. You have to find the scum before they outnumber you.
Please explain to me the difference between lynching Scum Day X and then information lynching Day X+1 versus information lynching Day X and then lynching the already found Scum Day X+1. Why is it better to do the info lynch first? At the end of both scenarios, you're in the exact same spot Town to Scum ratio-wise.
Scum are the ones who you need to get information from. I would rather have a living scum talk to me and incriminate themselves and/or their buddies than a living townie who will scumhunt. (And be wrong the majority of the time.)
Again, we're going to have to agree to disagree. If you KNOW someone is Scum, the proper thing to do is to milk them for whatever you can that Day, but to LYNCH THEM!
Neutrals are just bad in every scenario because they have no reason to help the town, are not trustworthy, and can't be analyzed for information like a scum.
With the exception of the last point, those all sound like excellent reasons to lynch neutrals whenever you don't have a solid Scum candidate to lynch. And I don't accept that the last point is so important that only it should be considered.
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Just a pigment of your imagination.
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A.K.A nothing.
Ahlyis
GrickyTrimmick
Iso
Tordeck
Scum:
Meggiddo
Seppel?
Other:
Seppel?
kpaca
Irrelevant:
DragonHeart
Everyone else:
Everyone else
To be updated as I progress. Spots subject to change.
Iso told me to "lynch scum". How would YOU have worded your response?
Clearly the only two valid responses.
Okay, I'll bite. Which scum would you have voted for?
Megiddo (6) - AsianInvasion, Iso, Audinho, Wessel, kpaca, Guardman
Deaths_Vampire (2) - Tordeck, Meggido
Seppel (2) - Arnnaria, Ahlyis
kpaca (1) - Seppel
Infinis (1) - Void
Audinho (1) - Gricky Timmick
Ahylis (1) - Dragonheart91
With 23 alive, it's 12 to lynch.
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Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
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Oh right, because that's not a blatant misrepresentation and strawman of the case on you.
HAHAHSKGLJEFWROIUSDKLFNVCX:JSF
Everything.
Every. Thing.
Because he's scum.
Don't be ridiculous. That's not at all what I said, and has nothing to do with the point at hand.
Thanks, buddy.
Agree. For now.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I believe that the posts in question are being thanked for OoG reasons, so I wouldn't worry about it.
At first I was really confused, but he was simply mocking Iso. There's no reason to actually think he was claiming scum there.
I realized this yesterday.
You could always help the town because the scum are definitely not going to shoot you, but a town vig might.
Well, Arnnaria and I are trying to help you with that problem!
I would have opted for GTFO because I had not yet caught scum.
Mocking Iso by claiming scum. That's the kind of thing that sounds like an outlandish funny joke in a scum's head, and they figure no one will believe it.
See, I have a problem with your role. If AI gets killed, you just lose? Do you stay in the game even? IMO, the town may need to kill AI any time they would kill you in order to check that. Seems sketchy overall.
I'm not trying to "help him with a problem", I'm voting for him because his stance is very anti-town. And last time I checked, anti-town players are bad for us. My vote has nothing to do with him not having fun; my vote has to do with trying to get rid of the people who would hinder our victory.
I will gladly take the vote off if Asian Invasion says (not claims, just says) keeping Seppel alive will benefit the town.
Um, it's not? It certainly looked like you were telling me to stop voting for Seppel and to switch my vote to Meg because Meg is Scum and we should lynch Scum over Self.
If that's NOT what you were telling me, then please clarify what you actually meant, because apparently it got lost in translation.
If that IS what you meant, then I stand by my response. You don't KNOW that Meg is Scum. You may be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt, but you don't know it for a fact. Or do you?
At any rate, whether you are convinced or not, I am not convinced. A smiley and an exclamation point are far from enough "proof" for me. Just because in one other game someone posted a smiley under similar circumstances and turned out to be Scum doesn't make for a convincing Scumtell. It takes more than a single example of something, especially something as esoteric as this is, before I'll start to accept that it just might really be a Scumtell.
Seppel though is non-Town by his own admission. And while I think it likely he is Self aligned, that's not a certainty. But even with him being Self aligned, he's still a threat to Town by his own admission. He has said multiple times that he'll work in his own best interests regardless of whether those are also Town's best interests.
Is he as big a threat as actual Mafia is? Not unless he really is Mafia instead of Self. But most Day 1 cases are built on crap and end in a Townie lynch. Yes, Day 1 Scum lynches do occur, but they are far from the norm in my experience. I'd rather lynch a guaranteed non-Town than an unknown who has a shaky at best case against them.
I don't disagree with any of that. But it doesn't change my response either.
Regardless of the reasons we're voting for Seppel, we're "also" trying to help end his boredom.
Perhaps you need to read my post again. I think you missed the very first part. You know, the part that said "If I knew who Scum were..."
Or do you disagree that the most likely reason for knowing who Scum are is because you are Scum, with a less likely possibility of because you are a Cop with a Scum result.
I suppose I could also be the Mod. Then I'd know who Scum are too. But I think it's pretty obvious that none of us is the Mod, so I didn't feel a need to express that possibility.
Honestly, until LyLo, our only objective is to find the scum - killing them can wait. If that means lynching townies so we get information from associations and seeing their flip, then that is what we should do. Lynching neutrals doesn't give us any information about the scum, and especially not nearly as much as lynching a townie would.
And yes, I just said it's a good idea to lynch townies. Come at me bros.
If AI gets killed before I find him tonight (lol), then I lose and leave the game. After I find him, I just have to live to the end of the game.
You make a very compelling argument.
Unvote, vote Megiddo.
I just need to find him.
Ugh. That's not good.
I've only ever seen one game before where the Mod also played. They used an Alt account, but gave theirself a specific role, not a randomized one. And that role had a built in death clock which guaranteed they were dead by a certain game Day.
If it's possible for the Mod to play with an Alt account and give themselves a randomized role just like everyone else, um, well, that sounds pretty borked!
Borked though it may be, I'll keep in mind that it is POSSIBLE, though I'm going to continue to think it highly unlikely until some evidence in this game suggests otherwise.
I just find the idea that he is unkillable and neutral to be odd. He could be the cult leader. But I find it hard to believe with a roll as hard as he claimed that anyone else could win with him. Its not SK hunting but when a role is literally vomited at me feet its hard to ignore.
That's rich seppel. That's rich.
You aren't neutral stop teh gambitz.
I understand the theory behind what you are saying. And it has some merit. But the way you describe implementing it is just BEGGING to lose the game.
Waiting until LyLo to start lynching Scum just to try to gather as much info as you can is tossing the game to fate in the hopes that there's no extra NK that shows up without warning. It also requires that ALL of the non-Scum agree on what all the gathered info says about who is Scum.
I'm not against the information lynch. But usually an information lynch is done on someone that MIGHT still be scum, but even if they aren't will yield lots of good info for Town. To lynch a "confirmed" Townie just to get information takes really special circumstances.
One I can think of off hand would be lynching one of three Masons who claim that their role PMs confirm to each other that they are all Town. Lynching one to confirm the other two as Town and remove the possibility of the Scum team hiding as Masons could be the right thing to do in some circumstances. But even then, you're lynching a Townie to confirm other Townies, not to help identify Scum.
Another might be lynching the claimed Cop before LyLo. That's pretty standard mantra over at Px2, though it's not always followed (much to Town's chagrin in some cases).
But it sounds like you are suggesting willy nilly lynching Townies just to gain info, and that I don't agree with. Yes, there are times when a solid Townie being lynched can be worth it for the info gained. But that's NOT the norm.
As for Day 1, lynching a Townie isn't going to yield that much info. There hasn't been enough interactions yet. Lynching a Self may not yield any info, but it does remove a threat. And I personally think it is far better to preserve as many Townies as possible.
It's a risk/reward thing. There's no risk involved in lynching a Self aligned player on Day 1, though the gain is moderate. Lynching an unknown carries the risk of lynching a Townie that yields almost no info, with the reward of possibly lynching a Mafiate instead.
Given only weak cases, I prefer the safer route of removing the known Self who has promised to side against Town if it benefits him over the riskier route of likely taking out a Townie on a mislynch.
You're not in Px2 any more.
Read the rules, you guys.
Fair enough, but as this is only my second game here, and the first is still ongoing, I have little choice but to rely on my Px2 experiences for guidance.
I do understand that there will be differences and that I'll have some erroneous assumptions, but overall I think Mafia is Mafia and my experience at Px2 is worth something. Most of the differences I expect to be Meta related, not Mafia fundamentals related. Though I admit that it can sometimes be hard to determine where the line is.
I do when there is no basis to be SK hunting. Neither of your claims screams SK gambit to hide in open. Your cult theory is a better possibility and even that is a a little wonky and I think you are only thinking it cuz there have been a few Cult games this last year. More than in previous years.
3rd party hunting is the easiest way for scum to appear like they are helping the town when in fact they are not.
haha, between you, iso and kpaca in this game, I'm pretty sure my head is going to explode from all the crazy by the end of it.
The Family
Can't believe I'm on your side right now.
Your middle point there is good.
Dragonheart: While your theory of killing townies while pegging scum is interesting, it simply isn't good because you can't know for certain that the people pegged as scum actually are scum until they are lynched. You could trust a cop-report, but then you'd have to trust the cop. And if the cop is confirmed in some way, you don't know if he's sane or not. Bottom line there are two many variables, aka things that could go wrong, for your plan to be feasible. Let's stick to trying to lynch scum.
I do however agree with Dragonheart that lynching neutrals gives us no info at all, unless they are lying and are not neutrals.
I don't think kpaca is lying about his neutralness, but I'm pretty sure there is something in Seppels role that he's not telling us. I got no idea what it could be though.
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
Claim is rock solid as far as flavor.
Save yourself some pain. The anime is adapted from a game, the anime is disjointed and not very well put together to describe accurate situations. Its a beautiful anime, just not very good in the story.
Support your wild claim.
Why would you leave the game if you can't find him, but not leave the game when 1. He gets kill after, 2 when you find him. Sense your claim is not making.
/barn this.
@Question for Kpaca : your target knows they get the bauble correct? Follow up to this pending answer.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
Sometimes I don't even know why I bother with you people. None of you seem to be open to new ideas and scum are rapidly learning to adapt to your stale meta.
I'll let you know when I've caught scum and you can believe me or lose.
Dragon, I don't fully understand your sentiments. The game has just begun. It's not like we've lynched three Townies in a row and have no information to go off of. We have suspects; people are currently voting on said suspects. But to think that there's going to be some sort of scum victory after less than 72 hours is paranoid and baseless.
The game just started and you have "endgame" mentality. Lighten up a bit.
No. Just no.
If we have one Scum who won't provide any extra info with their death and one Townie who will provide lots of useful info with their death... we lynch the fricking Scum! We don't lynch the Townie.
Next Day, if need be, we can lynch the Townie for their info then.
Your way, we lose a Townie, get a Day closer to LyLo, still have to lynch the known Scum and cut short the amount of info we could get from the Townie's death.
My way we lynch Scum (which by itself should be enough), extend out LyLo for a Day and still have the Townie available for the info lynch if we don't have another Scum ready to string up.
Lynching Scum should pretty much ALWAYS take precedence over informational lynches. Yes, you can always construct some specific scenario where the info lynch would be better. So what? Until that specific scenario comes up, we lynch the Scum, not the Townie.
Now, I will grant you that, like most things in Mafia, the situation becomes more and more grey when you start blurring the certainty that we've found Scum vs. the level of info expected from the informational lynch. But the general rule should still be, all things being roughly equal, lynch the Scum first, then make the informational lynch later if you still need to.
loran > Cult > Scum > SK > Anti-Town Neutral > Info Lynch > Neutral > Shot in the Dark
As we can see by my list Info Lynches are way down there.
Ioran?
loran with a L.
It's an old mafia forum joke: Lynch all lorans!
Someone can explain the history of it to you much better than I.
You missed one there Guard
@ Arnn - Loran16, old mafia player who doesnt play anymore
The Family
Scum are the ones who you need to get information from. I would rather have a living scum talk to me and incriminate themselves and/or their buddies than a living townie who will scumhunt. (And be wrong the majority of the time.)
Neutrals are just bad in every scenario because they have no reason to help the town, are not trustworthy, and can't be analyzed for information like a scum.
I forgot that one. Probably should read "Az or Cyan still alive after D4".
You should only info lynch when you have no other viable lynches. Info lynches happen because you need the info to catch scum. If you already caught scum then an info lynch isn't needed.
Yeah and I realized after I posted it that it should probably rank higher than an Info lynch lol
The Family
Please explain to me the difference between lynching Scum Day X and then information lynching Day X+1 versus information lynching Day X and then lynching the already found Scum Day X+1. Why is it better to do the info lynch first? At the end of both scenarios, you're in the exact same spot Town to Scum ratio-wise.
We're NEVER going to agree here. I still maintain waiting until LyLo to decide it is important to lynch Scum is just handing the game to the Scum.
Again, we're going to have to agree to disagree. If you KNOW someone is Scum, the proper thing to do is to milk them for whatever you can that Day, but to LYNCH THEM!
With the exception of the last point, those all sound like excellent reasons to lynch neutrals whenever you don't have a solid Scum candidate to lynch. And I don't accept that the last point is so important that only it should be considered.