Now tell me Arc, how DH is scummy for how he conducted his claim and yet Kpaca is not?
Ive either been /in, /spectate or /mod for just about every game Dragon has on this site. If anyone can read him I feel I can and I am 90% sure this is his town play.
That's kinda a negative misrep of my claim don't you think? Pretty much all my questions were covered in my opening post, just not clarified. Furthermore, as far as me claiming goes, that's pretty damn thorough. I even looked up my name lol.
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Think the MtgStaff is just swell? Join today! You too can be involved in an 8 year grudge and delete nearly 9000 of kpaca's posts!
I'm some young girl who joined up with a group that use fire based powers to keep the world in balance or something. I've never heard of any of it and can't pronounce most of the names.
My ability is similar to a Medium, but greatly weakened. I can target a player once per night. If that player gets killed, they get to continue talking the next day. (But still lose all their abilities and vote.) So basically, I can let people talk for a Day after death if I pick correctly.
I was pretty disappointed honestly, because this role is very weak. I just consider myself equivalent to a vanilla townsfolk. I tried to talk to the mod, but he is convinced that my role is amazingly super powerful... Which actually makes me wonder about the game balance here. If the mod considers a weakened version of a Medium a powerful town role, that might have skewed game balance slightly in the mafia's favor.
The #1 most useful way to use my ability is paired with any cop or investigative role. If I target them, they will basically get one more shot of their ability after death. (Because they will be able to reveal the results they got that Night when they would normally be dead and unable to talk to us.) The second use for it would be to give a town player who gets vigged a shot at redeeming themselves and info-dumping on their way out.
If anyone cares about my flavor I can go copy/paste the names of everything from my PM. I think my ability makes Torches or Flares or something like that which are supposed to be weakened versions of living souls that slowly fade away. Apparently my character falls in love with one at some point in the show.
@Iso: Since no one will believe me anymore, I don't have to feel guilty. I'm town.
The claim does nothing to sway me. The ability, while technically confirmable, is extremely hard to activate. Also the entire claim reads as one where he is more concerned with presenting a story about his "disappointing" role then claiming. The fact he is also sort of dancing around his flavor and such makes me feel that Dragon is lying about his claim.
As for his info claim and win condition claim, here is how I look at it: Either he gets modkilled, problem solved, or nothing happens which means the win condition claim is meaningless. Most mods while give the scum the town win condition if it's not in the OP and it is asked for, so I see it as moot.
Finally Dragon while I do believe you to be scum, I can understand why people want to policy lynch you. Your attitude and demeanor this game has been bad for the health of the game in my opinion. You advocated for info lynching, the majority of the game explained why it was wrong, you ignored them and continued to advocate it. When people started calling you scummy for it, you shut down and basically are calling people intolerant and trying to turn yourself into the victim by saying we are wrong and that we are being intolerant towards your playstyle. Your stubbornness on campaigning for an issue that we shouldn't even be discussing in game (it's better left for the theory thread) and petty/childish attitude towards people has been negatively effecting my enjoyment of this game and from the reactions of others I don't seem to be the only one.
So, pray-tell why kpaca and seppel are still alive, because they named their character for the game and the flavor of their character? Null tell my ass, its a pretty large tell that he was willing to describe all this random crap but not give what 2, almost 3, players have already given the game, their names.
That's kinda a negative misrep of my claim don't you think? Pretty much all my questions were covered in my opening post, just not clarified. Furthermore, as far as me claiming goes, that's pretty damn thorough. I even looked up my name lol.
My point was that you claimed your role and then later claimed your name with time between. DH did the same with less time between. Both of you basically claimed the same way and yet Arc is trying to call DH scummy for it but is taking your word on the matter as to your neutrality. Something is off there IMO.
My point was that you claimed your role and then later claimed your name with time between. DH did the same with less time between. Both of you basically claimed the same way and yet Arc is trying to call DH scummy for it but is taking your word on the matter as to your neutrality. Something is off there IMO.
I personally find a big difference between their claims. Dragon was a L-2 claim where he mostly discussed his disappointment with his role and then skirted around his flavor issues. kpaca was claiming in response to Seppel's claim and was trying to be a benefit by bringing what he thought as relevant info forward.
I personally find a big difference between their claims. Dragon was a L-2 claim where he mostly discussed his disappointment with his role and then skirted around his flavor issues. kpaca was claiming in response to Seppel's claim and was trying to be a benefit by bringing what he thought as relevant info forward.
Ive yet to see Dragon not disappointed in his role when he has had to claim. Thats a Null.
Arc went after DH for multiple null tells and tried to twist them as scumtells. I dont like that.
So, pray-tell why kpaca and seppel are still alive, because they named their character for the game and the flavor of their character? Null tell my ass, its a pretty large tell that he was willing to describe all this random crap but not give what 2, almost 3, players have already given the game, their names.
No formatting was retained. The name was not quoted, obviously.
Ok so this is where I stand so far going into my v/la.
Dragonheart91 - as sad as it is, this is a town game for DH
GrickyTimmick - Gut read, his line of posting sits well with me
Tordeck - me duh
AsianInvasion - this one is more a neutral to leanign town read based off his posts and interactions with Seppel This could quickly change depending on Seppel's flip
Ahlyis - I just like this guy's posting. Seems town to me
Guardman - Gut read only, leaning town. I always have a hard time reading Guard though
Wessel - just a gut read at this point, nothing concrete
Arnnaria - just a gut read at this point, nothing concrete
Wheat_Grinder - Scum like to try and hide behind PRs. But scum generally do so as a means of not actually playing the game. Wheaties appears to be doing the best to actually scum hunt though the PR.
Seppel - claimed, no reason to doubt as of yet
kpaca - claimed, no reason to doubt as of yet
Audinho - something is off with his posting. gut read only at this point
Arcadic - his attempts to paint nulltells as scumtells concerning DH make me wary of him
Megiddo - I dont put it past Iso (who is my #1 scumspect to bus a buddy this early)
Deaths_Vampire - Ive already pointed out why this guy is scum
Iso - same with him
POST MOAR!!
Void - yes I understand v/la but you better have something good to say when you get back
Prophylaxis
Infinis
Zajnet
fluffyn00b
Archmage_Eternal
Cyouni
It's hard to get full scum reads in a 23 player game, especially with so many people posting very little. Analyzing my wagon leads me to believe that tordeck is town and I'm certain there is scum on this wagon, it's just a matter of rooting them out.
Basically, it would have been really easy for tordeck to hammer me and just play it off as killing the obvious scum player. Instead he's actively defending me. (Because he actually knows my meta.)
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
Gonna go post by post and determine Iso's vote reasoning, or what little vote reasoning he's given us. Consider this a PBPA/Answering session for all intents and purposes.
This is in the middle of a wallpost and that's all the analysis there is to glean from it. It may not look like much, but Iso uses this line commonly, as both town and scum, and I take it to mean "This post is insincere". It's regarding the tone of the post and how believable it sounds. I'm not sure how Iso prefers to go about determining it, whether it be by reading the post out loud or looking for punctuation or whatever, but this is what he's talking about, as evidenced later.
Is there something wrong with voting Megiddo at this juncture?
This is in response to Ahl voting for Seppel rather than Meg, even though he says Meg might possibly be scum. Evidence of Vote Mongering here, IE "Lynch please?"
@Aud: See the post of Meg's I quoted? It is so terribly forced. Read into it.
This is really the only other clue into Iso's reasoning, where he tell's Aud what's wrong with Meg. He says it's terribly forced, with reinforces the idea that Iso thinks the tone of Meg's post is faked and unrealistic. I'm not assuming there's anything more than that, since that's all he's indicated. Funny how so few words from a player can mean so much, and it's still not enough for Iso's Meg case to actually be legit.
May I remind you, his "case" is that one post and it's funky tone. One post and one point does not a case make.
Or instead of going with the "safe lynch" we can lynch scum. There's an idea.
@Arn: Stop it. Vote for Megiddo.
Not one but two cases of Vote Mongering in the same post, that is if I'm reading the top part right. He's talking to Ahl in the top part, saying Ahl should switch his vote from Seppel to Meg, because Meg's scum. If I'm reading that wrong, my bad, I must have forgot how the english language and, for that matter, using references works.
Oh right, because that's not a blatant misrepresentation and strawman of the case on you.
HAHAHSKGLJEFWROIUSDKLFNVCX:JSF
This is the only other times Iso addresses a post of Meg's outside the original tone post. The top he attacks Meg, saying he's misrepping and strawmanning Iso's case. How can it be strawmanned? It literally is one point about one post! It is a strawman itself. It's strawmanning all the other posts that Meg makes.
The second part is nonsensical and is thrown right out the window.
Maybe you should vote Megiddo and find out for yourself.
More Vote Mongering. I believe Iso's had more Vote Mongering than he's had posts explaining his stance on his own vote. And this wagon has steam behind it? Unbelievable.
Don't tell me what my reads are and are not unless you know, for sure, what they are. I can assure you that you don't.
I can't know for sure what your reads are, but I can make educated guesses based on the posts you've given us. I can also prevent you from saying "oh yeah, that was a gut read, I guess my gut's off this game" when you get Meg killed and it turns out Meg's town. The case is weak and you barely post about it, but you post enough to indicate that you don't like the tone of Meg's post, reading it as insincere. You can call that a gut read if you want, but in this case of Gut, I just defined what it is you are looking at. So we don't have this vague word "gut" anymore, like you were trying to switch to before I caught you, we have "Tone Analysis" to call it. It would be an acceptable point, even though I disagree with it, if it weren't the only point you make on Meg. Your Vote Mongering is absolutely terrible.
And my read on Void in Homestuck was based on the associations I subconsciously drew from his t/s list - but it was still an immediate gut reaction, much like my reaction to Megiddo's post. I would say "prove me wrong", but you can't.
See, you hide behind that word too much. Gut is vague and gives you advantages for when you are scum, as I explained in that game. And before you go on and on about how I was scum and using this argument is scum meta, the points I made, basically "Using gut all the time is scummy because it lets you provide little reason for jumping on and off wagon's and getting lynched, all while hiding behind the word Gut", are all still legit. The meta was me trying to trap you with it at the end of D2. If it looks like I'm trying to set up a trap, that's probably a good meta call. If I'm just referencing my own argument, it doesn't reflect on my alignment and it doesn't reflect on the validity of said point.
Point is, overuse of Gut is scummy and I believe that's what's happening here. At least, Gut is being used as the only reason to carry a terrible case as far as you can carry it.
I see you are using Playground styles to mount your defense. Well played, how shall I ever escape unscathed!/sarcasm.
Seriously though, At least I've got multiple reasons to back up my statements. All you can say is "Gut" and now this playground BS, along with "Vote please?"
You were SCUM! You're defending your SCUM meta while trying to portray yourself as town in this game! How is that comparable? You wouldn't feel the need to draw that correlation unless you are scum.
I know I answered it above, but reusing an argument from a game where I was scum doesn't mean I'm following my scum meta. If I were using Gut to trap you for potentially bussing a scumbuddy, then it would be my scum meta. However, the points I had about Gut were still completely sound, just the way I was using them were for my own scummy gain since I knew Void would get lynched and I wanted to turn some of the suspicion around on you. Here is nothing like that. First, I think Meg is town, not scum, so there's no setup. Also, I'm not trying to get you lynched on subsequent days, unless we are lynching Aud today, cause I'm perfectly fine with voting you too. It's really up to the rest of the town. Also, Meg is nowhere near looking like the sure thing lynch that Void was.
I even stated after the game, and we had conversations about my thoughts on Gut and how it's mostly a scumtool. I told you that even though I flipped scum in that game, all my Gut analysis still held it's ground because what I was saying was right, I was just trying to use it to trap you on D3.
This entire case is garbage, but this is probably one of the worst offending parts. People's metas are not. Comparable. To. Each. Other. Actions can be similar, but it should NEVER be the basis of your case.
I have consistently said that even though the meta is present, I'm not taking much stock in it as I am the actions of this game. I've stated it more than once IIRC. If you need me to find it I can, but it would only prove that you aren't reading as much as you are skimming the thread, more proof of scummy actions. Do I need to find it for you?
Wow. This isn't addressed to me, but I'd like to point out that not only does he think he's pinned the scumteam (see the last part about sorting out the neutrals), but his suspects are the weakest bunch ever.
Meg: I've already explained why and how this case is weaksauce.
Proph: Iso had a vote on him early early on over one post, but I can't remember Iso saying anything about it since then
Me: He's calling me scum because I'm calling him out, a blatent OMGUS. It's also partially because he's tying me to the Meg case, which is weak, so it makes the reasoning for why I'm scum even weaker. Also, I remember Iso saying, in the endgame of Trisk where he was scum, that he usually tries to kill his dissenters first. That being said, the fact that he's not waiting until night to go after me gives me confidence in my reads. If he's scum, I wouldn't doubt if I've pegged more than a few scum.
DH: Once again, I can't remember Iso saying much on the DH wagon, but I believe DH to be poorly playing town, so it doesn't surprise me that Iso would be willing to take advantage of the wagon.
Tordeck: I can only assume that Iso thinks Tordeck is scum because Tordeck agrees with me who agrees with Tordeck. Which makes his Tordeck issue a by product of my case, which is a by product of the Meg case. That makes the Tordeck issue even weaker than my case, which is pretty damn weak.
Nah. In my games, I provide the scum with the town win condition AND put it in the OP. I wouldn't say you're cleared, but there are better suspects to pursue.
Like Megiddo. And Prophylaxis. And Gricky.
Oh, look more Vote Mongering. Can you say "Lynch please x3"? Oh wait, you already did.
1. If I flip scum, NO ONE IS GOING TO LISTEN TO ME.
2. Unless I get Vigged (unlikely at this point), I wouldn't be dying toNight short of an SK or Hitman kind of role. And given that we already have 2 claimed Neutrals, that is equally unlikely.
3. You just slipped that you know Dragonheart is town.
Unvote, Vote Gricky
1. Dead talking scum is still a major problem and causes headache's for the town. Regardless of whether anyone listens to you, you still get the opportunity to be incredibly disruptive, and opportunity I wouldn't like you to have.
2. I expect you should get vigged. Anyone with a shot would be smart to fire at you. Unless we lynch you, then we should fire at Seppel.
3. How's that work? If anything, you slipped that you know Dragon is town, because I'm saying that line in response to you suggesting you be the target. So, if you are assuming that Dragon's telling the truth in your post, then I'm assuming it too when I respond to say that's a terrible idea, and then you hold the point against me as if it were a scumslip. Nevermind the fact that I happen to think Dragon is just poorly playing town at this point. Nevermind the implied sarcasm inserted there because rezzing you is an utterly bad idea. I think the fact that you are turning this around on me after you quickly assumed Dragon wasn't lying about his ability yourself is a scumslip, and it's at the very least hypocritical.
Lastly, on the vote, nice exit strategy from the Meg case. Just pointing out what you are doing, since you know it's falling apart.
How am I OMGUSing you? I'm deconstructing your **** attack on me and pointing out all of the inconsistencies in your logic. I just happen to think they make you scum. Also: What WIFOM?
Ever since I started saying the case on Meg was weak and attacking you vicariously when responding to Aud, you've begun to have random suspicion on me, not saying exactly why, just that you have suspicion. Once I get louder about the subject, so do you. You have basically added me to your scumlist because I disagree with you and you've added Tordeck for the same reasons, because he agrees with me. So yeah, let's bump that up to 2 OMGUS while we're at it.
The WIFOM? Comes from 1. calling yourself town 2. calling three players scum like you know it for a fact and 3. being all "hey my role is useful!" about it. Totes WIFOM.
-And then I'll say, "No, that's not what I meant, and I know what I mean when I say what I mean" and I'll get you lynched because it is almost always scum who try to misconstrue what I mean into getting me lynched.
I'm not misconstruing your arguments, I'm trying to analyze them. I do it because you almost never say what you mean, even after a good prodding. It's like pulling teeth with you, so I'm skipping the effort and providing my analysis of your stance, at least based off of what you've said so far.
Also, nice strawman of the argument. "It's almost always scum who do this" is a terrible point that offers nothing legit to the game. The qualifier Almost means that there are legit times when town makes this argument and you know it.
As much as I want to see DH swing, we will get more information if we make a few more wagons. Wagons that get to L-1 are absolutely beautiful for scumhunting in later days.
One wagon I'm very interested in seeing is unvote, vote Iso.
As much as I want to see DH swing, we will get more information if we make a few more wagons. Wagons that get to L-1 are absolutely beautiful for scumhunting in later days.
One wagon I'm very interested in seeing is unvote, vote Iso.
You know, there's some guilt on your head here too. Your early /barnvote onto Iso's Meg wagon looks pretty damn sketchy now that Iso's backing down from it. AI's too. Your flop on Iso is weak, and it really really makes me think my recruiting theory is totes right. Thanks for the vote though.
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Who was that masked man anyway?
MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
@GrickyTimmick: I really don't want to continue with the huge walls of text going back and forth arguing what we've both said before. Shall we just agree that you think I'm scum while I don't? I think the only thing that required answering in your latest post on me was the issue of the "no-look barn", which I thought I explained. I don't think it was a no-look barn. I really don't have anything more to add to that which I haven't allready said. If you're not convinced then I'm not able to convince you.
Cool. I'm still pegging you for scum, especially after this. Earlier in my mafia career, I would get into massive wallpost fights with other townies that I just thought were scum, and it would never end and kill the activity level. Usually, when the other guy refuses to give up on the matter, he's town at the end of the game. Town fight back, scum don't.
Even if Seppel is telling the truth about his role, without knowing what abilities he and AI might gain, he gives us no advantage. It's all just so he wins the game, or at least has a chance to. Problem is, that's only if we assume he's telling the truth, which I'm very hesitant to do. Also, I'm thinking that his WinCon has evolved a bit. I remember him saying early that he just had to find his buddy, now it's find and still live to the end. Somethings fishy, I just can't put my finger on it.
Or Iso was like "Hey mod, what's the town wincon?"
And Charm was like "Eliminate threats yada yada"
And Iso was like "Hey DH, here's the town wincon, now post it"
And DH was like "I'm scum I mean town here's the wincon BUT I'M NOT GOING TO GO INTO DETAIL ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE FROM MY ROLE PM JUST IN CASE I SCREW UP WHAT A TOWN ROLE PM LOOKS LIKE"
And Ahlyis was like "oh that makes perfect sense, unvote"
If this is what happened and the scum don't have daychat, then both Iso and DH should be modkilled, unless I missed where Iso posted that information into the thread. If they don't have daychat, then Iso must have PMed Dragon about it, which would be a rules violation and punishable by daykill.
Who is GT's vote currently on? If it's on me and he just posted a premise requiring me to be town, then I'm willing to move my vote. You don't vote for someone then then assume they are town without taking your vote off. (I'm assuming he is voting for me, but there hasn't been a vote count in a while, so I'm not certain.)
It was Aud, now Iso. You're theory posts read to me like town stuck in a bad spot. You are somewhat newer, so I'm not surprised to see some wild theory out there, nor am I surprised to see people trying to take advantage of it.
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MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
Even if Seppel is telling the truth about his role, without knowing what abilities he and AI might gain, he gives us no advantage. It's all just so he wins the game, or at least has a chance to. Problem is, that's only if we assume he's telling the truth, which I'm very hesitant to do. Also, I'm thinking that his WinCon has evolved a bit. I remember him saying early that he just had to find his buddy, now it's find and still live to the end. Somethings fishy, I just can't put my finger on it.
It's not Seppel I'm arguing to "save". It's AI's "super special" ability that he gets if Seppel is still around. If having this ability is going to be of great benefit toward the town, I was looking to scumhunt elsewhere. But I've already taken my vote off Seppel, so I guess the point is moot and doesn't need to be answered and given more information to the scum.
Since it was asked for, a votecount.
Dragonheart91 (8) - Guardman, Arnnaria, Cyouni, Wheat_grinder, Megiddo, zajnet, Infinis, kpaca Iso (3) - tordeck, Gricky_Timmick, Seppel Megiddo (2) - AsianInvasion, Wessel Infinis (1) - Void
Audinho (1) - Gricky Timmick Ahylis (1) - Dragonheart91 Gricky Timmick (1) - Iso
With 23 Alive, it's still 12 to lynch.
As a general reminder, play nice. I'm not above modkilling someone for continuous flaming/ad hom posts. I'd rather not but it won't stop me.
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I'm thinking that his WinCon has evolved a bit. I remember him saying early that he just had to find his buddy, now it's find and still live to the end. Somethings fishy, I just can't put my finger on it.
That's not how I remember it. I seem to recall him having said from the start that he had to survive to the end. He initially just said he was looking for his friend, but when he actually made a claim, his claimed wincon was find the buddy AND survive.
I'm Misumi Nagisa from Futari wa Pretty Cure. I'm a neutral wanderer. My win condition is to find my best friend and survive to the end of the game. Once per night I can target someone and hope that that person is my best friend.
My role PM doesn't say who my best friend is, but Google says it's Yukishiro Honoka (or possibly Shiho or Rina).
So if you're Yukishiro Honoka, Shiho, or Rina, please claim.
Thanks.
P.S. Consider my vote to be on everyone who isn't Honoka, Shiho, or Rina.
His very first post. It's all there. Finding friend. Living to the end.
@DragonHeart My first thought when I read your role was must be town, then my second thought was why isn't he super pumped? I can only assume that everyone assumes that DH can't use his ability to allow a player to out his killer, as in catch scum?
Unvote
Starting to not like the woe is me in Audio's self-defense.
EWP:
And hasn't Seppel elaborated to just find, not find and survive?
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
The Mod has spoken, and DH is still alive. That tells me the quoting of the Town wincon is something that was/is available to the Mafia.
It doesn't say that DH is Scum for it, but it does say that he gets no Townie pants to wear just because he was able to quote it.
Thinking about it more, I think it may be a scumslip. Either a scumslip, or a VERY careless Townie.
Think about it. How did DH know he could quote the Wincon word for word without getting modkilled for it?
He was careful not to quote any other part of his role PM. He even specifically commented on it. So we know he was aware that quoting his role could get him modkilled. So how did he know it was safe to quote the Town wincon? Perhaps because quoting it wasn't quoting anything from his role PM?
It's not easy to come up with something original which isn't bogus in a 24-player game with such a high postfrequensy, especially since I'm in Europe and seldom can reply to posts instantly (i.e. I wake up in the morning to go through 50 new posts). What I think of saying, someone has usually allready said.
So you've managed to go through the entire game so far without managing to think of one original thing. I'm highly skeptical.
I'm not trying to hide at all, and how in the five frogs am I letting other people take flak from cases? As far as I see I'm getting plenly of flak.
You have never actually pushed a case. It's always "someone else's case" that you're arguing. First, it's TheIceMan's point on Void. Then it's Iso's case on Megiddo. Nothing is ever attributed to you.
Furthermore, misrepresentation - simply because you're getting plenty of flak doesn't mean you wanted it.
Cool. I'm still pegging you for scum, especially after this. Earlier in my mafia career, I would get into massive wallpost fights with other townies that I just thought were scum, and it would never end and kill the activity level. Usually, when the other guy refuses to give up on the matter, he's town at the end of the game. Town fight back, scum don't.
I think you will find that town that doesn't have time for huge walls of text and don't find them constructive to the game will not fight back as well. Huge walls of text murder games, especially when two players are town and equally skilled in writing said walls of text (see Starcraft Mafia, D1, Artifice vs TheIceMan IIRC). Note that I'm not saying you are town here, you are in my leaning scum, but I've seen the longest wallwars in town vs town.
1. So you've managed to go through the entire game so far without managing to think of one original thing. I'm highly skeptical.
2. You have never actually pushed a case. It's always "someone else's case" that you're arguing. First, it's TheIceMan's point on Void. Then it's Iso's case on Megiddo. Nothing is ever attributed to you.
Furthermore, misrepresentation - simply because you're getting plenty of flak doesn't mean you wanted it.
1. I assure you, this is completely normal.
2. It was TheIceMans point in SC Mafia. It was Wessel who noticed it. It was I who tried to connect the dots and make a case of it. Concerning originality on cases, do you mean I should just pick a random player and make a case on him so I'm sure that I'm credited for pushing it?
Because I can actually easily push for a policy lynch of fluffynoob since it looks like he's playing like in Ghost Story, that is playing like reading a book. But that wouldn't be my case anyway, now would it, because Megiddo was first to mention it.
So what's left of original cases? Arcadic made a scummy post in one of his oh so few, but someone (tordeck?) mentioned that as well. Wouldn't be my case. Gricky has been annoying me royally and I see lots of scummy stuff in his play, but I won't vote him now since a lot of my reasoning possibly stems from feelings of omgus. Need a cooler head about him before I eventually make a case. Oh no, wait, Iso made a case on him. Nevermind. Dragonheart? It's been done. Myself? Seems rather stupid, and I don't think I could've come uo with any arguments you guys haven't allready made. Push for Seppel because he's playing like a surferboy, not contributing and generally acting neutral? No, this has been brought up by others, and discussed. Plus I actually believe Seppel is what he says he is. DV, AI, AE or Void? Not really enough posts to make anything out of, I'm afraid. Inifus, Ayileh or Arnnaria? If I actually thought they were scummy I could have made a push, I'll grant you that. kpaca? Let's find scum, not lynch neutrals who seems harmless for now. WheatGrinder? He's acting strangely, isn't he? Only problem is that he's posting in fricking latin, which is superawesome and very exciting to follow. If he's scum and gambiting with it then he won't be caught by me, as I really really want to see how that develops. Iso, Guardman and tordeck then. Noooo I don't want to make a case on someone I think is town. How about yourself, you ask? Well that would just be pure omgus and with no reasoning at all, so that makes no sense. Did I cover all? I'm not sure. Did I end up making some kind of town/scum-list? Apparently.
I'm sorry if that's a pain to read. I was pretty frustrated when I started ranting there, but making the list actually had a small terapeutic effect. Thank you, and goooooood night.
PS: No-one has explained to me what "thanking posts" means. Please someone bother a line to soothe confused little old me.
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Damnation studios!
P9 - VT - Win
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
I think you will find that town that doesn't have time for huge walls of text and don't find them constructive to the game will not fight back as well. Huge walls of text murder games, especially when two players are town and equally skilled in writing said walls of text (see Starcraft Mafia, D1, Artifice vs TheIceMan IIRC). Note that I'm not saying you are town here, you are in my leaning scum, but I've seen the longest wallwars in town vs town.
I think you will find that when one person drops out, for whatever reason, the probability that they are scum becomes much greater. I've already stated that when wallwars goes on and on, I feel good about stopping because the other person is probably town. I've not stopped before and won the war against another not-stopper, they were town in the end. If the post war stops too soon, like I think ours did, it's a bad sign.
That plus all the scummy stuff you've done. That never stopped being a thing.
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Who was that masked man anyway?
MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
@DragonHeart My first thought when I read your role was must be town, then my second thought was why isn't he super pumped? I can only assume that everyone assumes that DH can't use his ability to allow a player to out his killer, as in catch scum?
Sure, if I target a Self-Watcher with my ability, they will tell us who killed them. The rest of the time, why would someone know who did the killing? All you get told is that you are dead. I'm making a note though: If a game mechanic emerges which lets dead people know who killed them and/or how they died, then you officially had inside information and are scum.
Thinking about it more, I think it may be a scumslip. Either a scumslip, or a VERY careless Townie.
Think about it. How did DH know he could quote the Wincon word for word without getting modkilled for it?
He was careful not to quote any other part of his role PM. He even specifically commented on it. So we know he was aware that quoting his role could get him modkilled. So how did he know it was safe to quote the Town wincon? Perhaps because quoting it wasn't quoting anything from his role PM?
I'm going to put my vote back where it belongs.
Vote: Dragon
Honestly, it was somewhat careless. I assumed the town win condition was public knowledge because I don't think I've been in a game where it wasn't public knowledge before. Normally the first post has the town win condition. (Which is why it's inane to ask someone to post their win condition, and yet everyone does it constantly anyway.) The fact that I wasn't mod-killed is simply the mod refusing to confirm that I knew the win condition. If he had modkilled me, then it makes me confirmed town and anyone who immediately agreed with me confirmed town. That's more damaging to the game state than letting me live in this situation. My bad though, I should check the OP before posting in the future.
@DH: Clarify your role. The effect lasts for only one night? There's nothing in there that implies that.
Also, explain the comment I asked about in my last post re:2-for-1 on a Neutral.
Also, why do you seem to think the game's high-powered when you're trying to argue that your role's practically vanilla?
In order:
-I target a player once per night. They gain the power to become a Torch on death. This is permanent, but all Torch powers are removed if I die. Anyone who has become a Torch will get one additional Day of talking after their death. (But no vote or abilities, as they are still dead and only leaving behind a false image of their life or w/e.)
-The 2 for 1 is related to what Seppel said. He claimed that if Asian Invasion was killed before being "found" by Seppel's night action, that Seppel would immediately be removed from the game. If we lynched Asian Invasion (who is likely to be Neutral as well), we would effectively be killing two Neutrals with one lynch. (Assuming Seppel is telling the truth.) And if Seppel lied about that, then we lynch him next for being lying scum.
-I automatically assume Specialty games are high powered, especially when the game description talks about transformations and power upgrades throughout the game for some players. Have you ever played a Specialty that wasn't high power?
Since it was asked for, a votecount.
Dragonheart91 (8) - Guardman, Arnnaria, Cyouni, Wheat_grinder, Megiddo, zajnet, Infinis, kpaca Iso (3) - tordeck, Gricky_Timmick, Seppel Megiddo (2) - AsianInvasion, Wessel Infinis (1) - Void
Audinho (1) - Gricky Timmick Ahylis (1) - Dragonheart91 Gricky Timmick (1) - Iso
With 23 Alive, it's still 12 to lynch.
As a general reminder, play nice. I'm not above modkilling someone for continuous flaming/ad hom posts. I'd rather not but it won't stop me.
I see you throwing threats at me mod, but I don't care. I'm going to call people out when they play badly. I already apologized and then got infracted for calling Arcadic stupid. If you have any other problems, stuff it.
*cracks knuckles* Now for some analysis of this bad wagon on me. First things first though, tordeck gets mad town points for not killing me off when he had the chance. I was either at L-1 or L-2 and it would have been super easy for him to just lie and get me killed. Instead he explained my meta truthfully and did what was best for the town. @tordeck: If you ever need the favor returned this game and want my support, just let me know.
#1 Guardman: I don't think Guardman is scum, I think he's just rude and not paying enough attention.
#2 Arnnaria: Arn is being a sheep and voted me without posting a reason. He's seen me play and just got out of a game with me as scum. He knows better. So the question is, is he being a sheep because he's confused, or is he being a sheep because he's scum. Time will tell. I also really don't like the way he is buddying Seppel and/or Asian Invasion. They might be Neutrals instead of scum, but it's still off. IGMEOY Edit while posting: As I continue to read other people, Arnnaria keeps looking worse. I really don't like the timing of his jumping on my wagon, the way he's trying so hard to be useful with the translation thing, the way he is buddying non-town players, or the lack of good reasoning behind his actions. Upgrade to a FoS
#3 Cyouni: He voted me for imploding. What he doesn't know, is that I always implode privately in the scum chat when I'm scum instead of in the main chat. I'll call that a null tell. He's earning town points now for asking me the right questions and thinking logically. He appears to be scum hunting. Goes in the town pile for now.
#4 Wheat_Grinder: This confounds me. He just got done being scumbuddies with me and literally got to see my calm calculating manner as scum. On the other hand, his posting feels townie. I don't have a good read here yet.
#5 Megiddo: I've thought Megiddo was town, and he may very well be voting me purely to try and save himself regardless of alignment. I know it's not great behavior, but it happens. He voted me because I'm ok with killing "non-scum" players. I don't like that he's identifying with the scum. They are "non-town" players, first and foremost. (And that assumes they are telling the truth.) So again, he's protecting the Neutrals and voting me for attacking them. If Seppel/AI flip Scum, all of these people defending them start looking really REALLY bad. Megiddo also made up some strawmen arguments for why his vote needed to stay on me regardless of what defense I brought up. Woohoo for tunneling.
#6 Zajnet: This my friends, is the definition of a scum bandwagon vote. Zajnet has three total posts in this game. One of them says he has been busy and hasn't read anything yet. The next one says "kill it with fire" as he votes me, and the third one is correcting a typo. The timing is also perfect as he puts me into L-2 range. 0 content, yet he's comfortable putting me at L-2 without any explanation. If you want to find scum, start by looking right here.
#7 Infinis: He says he's not sure if I'm scum and he needs to re-read my posts, because he thinks my defense has a chance of being valid... Then he votes me anyway in the same post. In his breakdown, I'm only leaning scum. His next and last post is him sounding like he might have inside information. (Addressed above) I want a better explanation for this vote from Infinis with his grand total of FOUR posts.
#8 kpaca: It's a Neutral voting for a wagon that isn't themselves. What else did you expect? He's been insulting me since the game started and saw an excuse to try and get me lynched. Seems more like a personal vendetta; I think kpaca doesn't like me.
Does anyone remember who hopped off my wagon really fast after tordeck explained that I was town? I need to analyze those people as well.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
He's been insulting me since the game started and saw an excuse to try and get me lynched. Seems more like a personal vendetta; I think kpaca doesn't like me.
I have no excuse to get you lynched, I want you lynched because your lynch will either remove a scum or remove a detraction from the town Modus Operundi and will also hopefully teach you a lesson about being a self-righteous loon in the future.
I am making no attempt at hiding it sir, so do not misrepresent it. I am fully supporting EVERYONE vote you as a policy lynch.
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Official Moderator of The [Gutter]
Think the MtgStaff is just swell? Join today! You too can be involved in an 8 year grudge and delete nearly 9000 of kpaca's posts!
If I wasn't town, my ability wouldn't make sense. If he believes my ability, he believes I'm town. In addition, that premise requires that you be scum who somehow have something to gain from an extra day of talking. (Which as we just discussed earlier, is usually bad for the scum.) Beyond that, you would also have to get night killed, which tends to imply that he thinks you are town.
It's a conflict of internal logic.
Precisely.
And because he's tied himself to Megiddo so strongly in his defense, and Megiddo was my first scum read, I am inclined to believe that they are scumbuddies.
This is in response to Ahl voting for Seppel rather than Meg, even though he says Meg might possibly be scum. Evidence of Vote Mongering here, IE "Lynch please?"
And?
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Funny how so few words from a player can mean so much, and it's still not enough for Iso's Meg case to actually be legit.
Why not?
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
May I remind you, his "case" is that one post and it's funky tone. One post and one point does not a case make.
I would like to keep reminding you of Void and Homestuck Mafia.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Not one but two cases of Vote Mongering in the same post, that is if I'm reading the top part right. He's talking to Ahl in the top part, saying Ahl should switch his vote from Seppel to Meg, because Meg's scum. If I'm reading that wrong, my bad, I must have forgot how the english language and, for that matter, using references works.
And?
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
This is the only other times Iso addresses a post of Meg's outside the original tone post. The top he attacks Meg, saying he's misrepping and strawmanning Iso's case. How can it be strawmanned? It literally is one point about one post! It is a strawman itself. It's strawmanning all the other posts that Meg makes.
It is being strawmanned because Megiddo is saying it's about one thing when it's about something else. That's exactly how it's being strawmanned. Quit pretending to be dense.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
The second part is nonsensical and is thrown right out the window.
I found Megiddo's response laughable and classic scum behavior of deflect+vote low-hanging fruit a la Dragonheart with no actual analysis attached to his vote - simply a "massclaim and talking about Neutrals". Firstly, D_V was talking about the massclaim - not Dragonheart (unless I'm mistaken). Secondly, we were already discussing the Neutrals - and then he votes the completely easy target of Dragonheart, whose wagon is gaining momentum. In short, Megiddo's vote on to Dragonheart was opportunistic, weak, and deflection from his own wagon, which was gaining momentum. Just because you don't understand my explosive laugh in response to Megiddo's jump to DH doesn't mean it should be dismissed.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
More Vote Mongering. I believe Iso's had more Vote Mongering than he's had posts explaining his stance on his own vote. And this wagon has steam behind it? Unbelievable.
Let's play a game.
I want you to show me all of Megiddo's town points.
Show me everything that has you so convinced that Megiddo is town.
Please.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Vote Mongering. Again.
And?
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
I can't know for sure what your reads are, but I can make educated guesses based on the posts you've given us. I can also prevent you from saying "oh yeah, that was a gut read, I guess my gut's off this game" when you get Meg killed and it turns out Meg's town. The case is weak and you barely post about it, but you post enough to indicate that you don't like the tone of Meg's post, reading it as insincere. You can call that a gut read if you want, but in this case of Gut, I just defined what it is you are looking at. So we don't have this vague word "gut" anymore, like you were trying to switch to before I caught you, we have "Tone Analysis" to call it. It would be an acceptable point, even though I disagree with it, if it weren't the only point you make on Meg. Your Vote Mongering is absolutely terrible.
It's certainly not the only point I've made on Megiddo. You have refused to acknowledge this. Why? And once again about the votemongering: And?
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
See, you hide behind that word too much. Gut is vague and gives you advantages for when you are scum, as I explained in that game. And before you go on and on about how I was scum and using this argument is scum meta, the points I made, basically "Using gut all the time is scummy because it lets you provide little reason for jumping on and off wagon's and getting lynched, all while hiding behind the word Gut", are all still legit. The meta was me trying to trap you with it at the end of D2. If it looks like I'm trying to set up a trap, that's probably a good meta call. If I'm just referencing my own argument, it doesn't reflect on my alignment and it doesn't reflect on the validity of said point.
And it does look like you are trying to do just that. Why do you feel the need to reference an argument you have made as scum if you are trying to appear townie? You and I have both spoken privately about my gut reads and how I am relying more on them lately because they appear to be more correct than my scumtell reads. I'm not providing little reasoning - I have substantiated my case sufficiently on Megiddo and I feel that is sufficient grounds for lynching him. Apparently at least 4 other people did, as well. Why aren't you attacking them? Why are you focusing your attacks on me when I have, in fact, likely provided more reasoning than anyone else as to why I believe Megiddo is scum?
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Point is, overuse of Gut is scummy and I believe that's what's happening here. At least, Gut is being used as the only reason to carry a terrible case as far as you can carry it.
Talk to me about this if you can point me to why, SUFFICIENTLY, you think Megiddo is town.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
I see you are using Playground styles to mount your defense. Well played, how shall I ever escape unscathed!/sarcasm.
That is the basis of your argument. "Your read is wrong. Also you're using gut. So you're scum." That is your case. You haven't provided any reasoning as to why my read is supposedly wrong - all you've said is that it is. Hypocrisy is not a becoming trait.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Seriously though, At least I've got multiple reasons to back up my statements. All you can say is "Gut" and now this playground BS, along with "Vote please?"
No, you don't. "Iso uses gut. Gut is scummy. Your read is wrong." This is EXACTLY the same argument you used against me in Homestuck WHERE YOU WERE SCUM.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
I know I answered it above, but reusing an argument from a game where I was scum doesn't mean I'm following my scum meta.
"Just because I was found at the crime scene immediately after the murder occurred holding the knife that killed the man doesn't mean I killed him!"
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
If I were using Gut to trap you for potentially bussing a scumbuddy, then it would be my scum meta. However, the points I had about Gut were still completely sound, just the way I was using them were for my own scummy gain since I knew Void would get lynched and I wanted to turn some of the suspicion around on you.
For those of you who weren't present during the game that we keep referencing:
Void replaced in. On his first post, I said, "I think Void is scum." When asked why, my response was to the effect of, "Gut." I subconsciously drew associations with the town/scum list that Void had created with his first post and it made perfect sense to me that Void was scum. Gricky was Void's scumbuddy in that game. He tried his damndest to get me lynched for basing my case on Void on that initial gut read. The only reason Void wasn't lynched that Day was because he claimed a PR (and even then I knew he was lying, as my own role made that an impossibility). My point here is that Gricky is not only rehashing the same argument that he did as scum in another game, but he is claiming that his points are "valid" when they obviously were not a solid foundation on which to build an argument - as I was town in Homestuck Mafia, and I am town now. The other issue here is that now that I have substantiated my Megiddo read beyond "gut", Gricky is still harping on the fact that my initial reason was my gut reaction to Megiddo's post. For those interested, I can find quotes from Homestuck Mafia to illustrate my point.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Here is nothing like that. First, I think Meg is town, not scum, so there's no setup.
Why do you think Megiddo is town?
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Also, I'm not trying to get you lynched on subsequent days, unless we are lynching Aud today, cause I'm perfectly fine with voting you too. It's really up to the rest of the town. Also, Meg is nowhere near looking like the sure thing lynch that Void was.
Or maybe you could create an actual case based on behavioral and motive analysis. Except you would have to fabricate an interpretation of my mindset in my posts because I am nothing but town. As for the Megiddo vs. Void thing in comparison to Homestuck, Megiddo was almost certainly going to be lynched before Dragonheart shouted out, "HEY, LOOK AT ME!". Speaking of: Megiddo, you were in that game. Why aren't you commenting on this?
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
I even stated after the game, and we had conversations about my thoughts on Gut and how it's mostly a scumtool. I told you that even though I flipped scum in that game, all my Gut analysis still held it's ground because what I was saying was right, I was just trying to use it to trap you on D3.
So it's okay for you to base your read on gut and not me? Why? Because you were scum in that game and you think gut is a scum tool? And you are STILL defending your argument from when you were BLATANTLY WRONG! Here, have another comparison. "I said you were scum [as scum] in one game because you posted 50 times a day and even though you were town, my argument is totally valid! And it still is, because you're posting 50 times a day here!" That is not a valid argument! You cannot say that your argument holds ground when you have been completely wrong with it!
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Oh, so you agree with me then. Good to know that you yourself understand that you are doing nothing but Vote Mongering.
/sarcasm
That being said, I have illustrated my case against Megiddo, and all I can do is refer people to it and call for more votes on him. How do you get people lynched? With psychic powers?
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
I have consistently said that even though the meta is present, I'm not taking much stock in it as I am the actions of this game. I've stated it more than once IIRC. If you need me to find it I can, but it would only prove that you aren't reading as much as you are skimming the thread, more proof of scummy actions. Do I need to find it for you?
I always skim people I think are town/people I'm going to figure out later. I read more into people I'm not sure about and people I think are scum. I find it amusing that you're trying to obfuscate your own scum meta in this game in an effort to get me mislynched here.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Meg: I've already explained why and how this case is weaksauce.
No. You haven't. Especially when you have seen it work firsthand. And you still need to address why you believe Megiddo is town. Also, "because I think you're scum" isn't sufficient, as you didn't think I was scum until I was attacking Megiddo, when you started defending him.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Proph: Iso had a vote on him early early on over one post, but I can't remember Iso saying anything about it since then
What more do I need to say about it? Proph hasn't been posting much and never addressed my case. As it stands, he is still an incredibly good lynch candidate. Why don't you look at my case on him? Oh right, because you're pretending to tunnel me.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Me: He's calling me scum because I'm calling him out, a blatent OMGUS. It's also partially because he's tying me to the Meg case, which is weak, so it makes the reasoning for why I'm scum even weaker. Also, I remember Iso saying, in the endgame of Trisk where he was scum, that he usually tries to kill his dissenters first. That being said, the fact that he's not waiting until night to go after me gives me confidence in my reads. If he's scum, I wouldn't doubt if I've pegged more than a few scum.
* I'm calling you scum because you are referencing an argument you used as scu-god why am I repeating this. ****ing scroll up
* I'm not tying you to Megiddo - you're doing that just fine on your own.
* And now you're lying again. I kill Power Roles first as scum. Always. I discussed this in theory. Optimal kill order: PRs, veterans, dissenters, and then supporters.
* I'm voting for you now. I only have one vote. DIAF.
* lol no
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
DH: Once again, I can't remember Iso saying much on the DH wagon, but I believe DH to be poorly playing town, so it doesn't surprise me that Iso would be willing to take advantage of the wagon.
Looks to me like you haven't looked at recent posts. Here's a tip: I'm not interested in lynching DH anymore currently. If he hadn't been so far down on my suspect list, I might have considered it when his wagon was at its prime.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Tordeck: I can only assume that Iso thinks Tordeck is scum because Tordeck agrees with me who agrees with Tordeck. Which makes his Tordeck issue a by product of my case, which is a by product of the Meg case. That makes the Tordeck issue even weaker than my case, which is pretty damn weak.
Which means you haven't been reading my posts.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Oh, look more Vote Mongering. Can you say "Lynch please x3"? Oh wait, you already did.
Lynch plz@@@
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
1. Dead talking scum is still a major problem and causes headache's for the town. Regardless of whether anyone listens to you, you still get the opportunity to be incredibly disruptive, and opportunity I wouldn't like you to have.
Clearly you do not understand the concept of "optimal play". As dead scum, it would be within my best interest not to say anything. Why? Because there would be no WIFOM to generate as people would know my alignment in the context of this hypothetical. Furthermore, again, you are providing a disconnect in your thoughts - you cannot rationally assume that A. I am scum and B. that I will die toNight unless our Vig is a piss-poor shooter. Meaning this shouldn't even be an issue for you. Except you know that I'm town. That is the only state of mind this rationale can be coming from that makes any inkling of sense, and I KNOW you're not a bad town player.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
2. I expect you should get vigged. Anyone with a shot would be smart to fire at you. Unless we lynch you, then we should fire at Seppel.
-Why Seppel?
-Why not Audinho, your other #1 scumspect?
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
3. How's that work? If anything, you slipped that you know Dragon is town, because I'm saying that line in response to you suggesting you be the target.
What? How does THAT make any sense? I believe Dragon to be town at this juncture, and you would know that if you had focused on READING my posts instead of MISREPRESENTING them.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
So, if you are assuming that Dragon's telling the truth in your post, then I'm assuming it too when I respond to say that's a terrible idea, and then you hold the point against me as if it were a scumslip. Nevermind the fact that I happen to think Dragon is just poorly playing town at this point. Nevermind the implied sarcasm inserted there because rezzing you is an utterly bad idea. I think the fact that you are turning this around on me after you quickly assumed Dragon wasn't lying about his ability yourself is a scumslip, and it's at the very least hypocritical.
You're reaching at this point.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Lastly, on the vote, nice exit strategy from the Meg case. Just pointing out what you are doing, since you know it's falling apart.
My vote would still be on Megiddo if I felt his wagon was going to regain the momentum it had, but as it is, too many people are focused on Dragonheart. That being said, I am attempting to bring a fresh perspective to the table in your lynch with hopes that we can avoid a potential mislynch and take out scum on Day 1 - which, without me pushing, I see no one else going for you or Prophylaxis, and I don't expect my reads to be carried out past my death because most of the players in this game don't have enough respect for my analysis to do that. What I'm doing, Gricky, is attempting to lynch you. As I enjoy stating, I would be voting you multiple times or my other scumspects in addition to you (if not multiple times) if I had multiple votes - the fact that you keep pointing out that I have but one vote is indication to me that, yes, I have one vote. Your point?
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Ever since I started saying the case on Meg was weak and attacking you vicariously when responding to Aud, you've begun to have random suspicion on me, not saying exactly why, just that you have suspicion. Once I get louder about the subject, so do you. You have basically added me to your scumlist because I disagree with you and you've added Tordeck for the same reasons, because he agrees with me. So yeah, let's bump that up to 2 OMGUS while we're at it.
I've OMGUSed once in my entire Mafia career and that was to shut Artifice up in Seasons. (Spoilers: I was town. So was he.) I have expressed a plethora of reasons, most notably your flawed reasoning (which you demonstrated quite profoundly in Homestuck Mafia), as to why you are scum. Would you like me to go back and explain why your posts I said were bad were bad? I can do that, too. My suspicion was hardly random, as you didn't attack me until AFTER I called you scum - again, IIRC. And no, I think tordeck could be scum because A. he's buddying up with you (though I suspect he's better at being scum than that, so I'm iffy about it) and B. his terribly weak (and incorrect) meta case on me. Last time meta was attempted on me, Artifice AND AsianInvasion pushed on me in Avatar Mafia. They thought I was scum for weak (and incorrect) meta reasons, as well, and take a look, if you will - I was town.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
The WIFOM? Comes from 1. calling yourself town 2. calling three players scum like you know it for a fact and 3. being all "hey my role is useful!" about it. Totes WIFOM.
1. Do you understand what WIFOM is?
2. Why don't you roll over and die so we can see whether or not I'm right?
3. I never said my role was useful - I said it would be an effective combination for Dragonheart to target me with his ability in utilization with my role.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
I'm not misconstruing your arguments, I'm trying to analyze them. I do it because you almost never say what you mean, even after a good prodding. It's like pulling teeth with you, so I'm skipping the effort and providing my analysis of your stance, at least based off of what you've said so far.
I suggest you learn reading analysis, then. Because you're doing it wrong.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Also, nice strawman of the argument. "It's almost always scum who do this" is a terrible point that offers nothing legit to the game. The qualifier Almost means that there are legit times when town makes this argument and you know it.
Actually, I said "almost" because there has been one single time that I remember it done, and that was by Shalako in Flame Warriors. (Additionally, the entire scum team sans one person was also misrepresenting my argument in that game.)
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Totes willing to throw my vote down on Aud though. Whatever seems like the best play.
Best play according to whom? Why are you trying not to step on other people's toes? Why do you need the town's approval to vote for Audinho?
If this is what happened and the scum don't have daychat, then both Iso and DH should be modkilled, unless I missed where Iso posted that information into the thread. If they don't have daychat, then Iso must have PMed Dragon about it, which would be a rules violation and punishable by daykill.
And what, praytell, makes you think the scum might have Daytalk? Also, I think you mean *modkill.
Your stance on Dragonheart is not assuaging my suspicion of you in the slightest.
Thinking about it more, I think it may be a scumslip. Either a scumslip, or a VERY careless Townie.
Think about it. How did DH know he could quote the Wincon word for word without getting modkilled for it?
He was careful not to quote any other part of his role PM. He even specifically commented on it. So we know he was aware that quoting his role could get him modkilled. So how did he know it was safe to quote the Town wincon? Perhaps because quoting it wasn't quoting anything from his role PM?
I think you will find that when one person drops out, for whatever reason, the probability that they are scum becomes much greater. I've already stated that when wallwars goes on and on, I feel good about stopping because the other person is probably town. I've not stopped before and won the war against another not-stopper, they were town in the end. If the post war stops too soon, like I think ours did, it's a bad sign.
Mooore meta. Weren't you saying that you didn't put much stock into it?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The day didn't start off well - granted, it was about as bad as the Commander could expect, given the subjects. But when tempers flare, there's usually someone who takes it too far.
Such was the case here.
"You all know NOTHING!" The girl screamed, brandishing her fiery blade at various others. "You claim to think this, and think that, but it's all WRONG! You just need to SHUT UP and let me find who's out to kill us!"
It couldn't be helped. The commander sighed as she pulled out her staff and tome, uttering assorted profanities as the inky blackness snaked its way into the room before drawing the offender into its grasp, leaving no trace save her steel blade.
"Now, I asked you to keep these matters civil. I advise you all to not take that request lightly."
If there were another way, she'd have done it. But too much damage had already occurred...hopefully it would prevent further ruin.
DragonHeart91 has been modkilled for, among other things, flaming other players, unsportsmanlike conduct, and suspicion of post manipulation. He was Shana, Town Flame Haze.
The Vote Count has been Reset. With 22 Alive, it's still 12 to Lynch.
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Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Iso I think we've had this discussion before (or maybe it was someone else) but please, please, pleese don't post walls of text that long again. That should've been three or four posts at least and it was an absolute monster to read, especially since most of the post was you and Gricky bickering...
I'll respond after work tomorrow, I've got to go to bed. Out of one post war and into another.
Quick point: Iso doesn't seem concerned that he's Vote Mongering more than he's actually posting arguments against Meg. He posts "And?" after a lot of my Vote Mongering points. The "And" of the Vote Mongering should have been obvious: He's saying very little about why you should vote Meg, but pressuring the vote anyway. He's only got one reason and he's pretty tight-lipped about it. So the Vote Mongering is bad because it's unjustified, he hasn't done anything or provided any proof on Meg to justify asking people several times for their vote. If he had just claimed cop and identified one of his investigation targets as scum, then Vote Mongering is cool. If he finds one thing wrong about one players posts, Vote Mongering is not cool, because it's unjustifiable. Iso literally made up his own mind on a player after one post and expects the town to vote with him without any other expansion of the subject. Wait, sorry, he told Aud to "look closely", but that's the extent of the analysis he's done. Everything else is Iso begging for more votes.
Another thing, a good chunk of my defense of Meg is because I don't like the way the case has progressed. The two neutrals on the wagon from near the get-go, the way Iso "caught" Meg, or rather just had bad feelings and the way Aud so easily stepped onto the wagon after being weakly persuaded by someone he claims he doesn't trust. The speed of the wagon, it seemed like it gained 7-9 votes before I could blink. They are all unsettling things about the wagon. My suspicion started with Aud, then when I began looking closer and closer, I couldn't find very much of anything on the wagon that I liked or gave me a positive sign. Iso had a gut read on Meg, I had a gut read on the wagon. Difference is that Iso is still stuck on his same old reasons and I've gone on to explore what my suspicions are actually rooted in.
Like I said, better point-by-point responses tomorrow. As for the Meta call from Homestuck, go fetch it, hell, I'll fetch it, specifically my analysis regarding Gut, because that's what's important. It's literally the only thing that game and this game have in common. My gut analysis is completely valid, but this game and Homestuck, my scum meta so far, are totally different.
Night all. Hope you like walls-o-text, cause Iso just asked for it.
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Who was that masked man anyway?
MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
Night all. Hope you like walls-o-text, cause Iso just asked for it.
Not sure if interested, but I have more then a passing disdain for Walls-o-Text and any other products made by Ton-o-Words Industries or any of it's subsidiaries. So yeah.
And because he's tied himself to Megiddo so strongly in his defense, and Megiddo was my first scum read, I am inclined to believe that they are scumbuddies.
Non intelligere.
DH habebat. horrendum ludere. Miror quod contristari flipped oppidum.
Sed saltem. nos non. dissipabit a Lynch. in eum.
Ego sum captum inter. suffragatio. Megiddo et Iso.
Ego male sentire. circa. Iso. Etiam, Megiddo. flips. oppidum. quando. videtur Mafia.
Iso videtur a magis interesting persona ad suffragium. Enim nunc, saltem.
Quick point: Iso doesn't seem concerned that he's Vote Mongering more than he's actually posting arguments against Meg. He posts "And?" after a lot of my Vote Mongering points. The "And" of the Vote Mongering should have been obvious: He's saying very little about why you should vote Meg, but pressuring the vote anyway. He's only got one reason and he's pretty tight-lipped about it. So the Vote Mongering is bad because it's unjustified, he hasn't done anything or provided any proof on Meg to justify asking people several times for their vote. If he had just claimed cop and identified one of his investigation targets as scum, then Vote Mongering is cool. If he finds one thing wrong about one players posts, Vote Mongering is not cool, because it's unjustifiable. Iso literally made up his own mind on a player after one post and expects the town to vote with him without any other expansion of the subject. Wait, sorry, he told Aud to "look closely", but that's the extent of the analysis he's done. Everything else is Iso begging for more votes.
Clearly you haven't read my post. I would advise you not to post until you do because this response is clearly indicative of the fact that you have not. You have, in fact, skimmed it, which you believe to be scummy.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
As for the Meta call from Homestuck, go fetch it, hell, I'll fetch it, specifically my analysis regarding Gut, because that's what's important.
Happily. I'll look it up after this post.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Night all. Hope you like walls-o-text, cause Iso just asked for it.
Not sure if interested, but I have more then a passing disdain for Walls-o-Text and any other products made by Ton-o-Words Industries or any of it's subsidiaries. So yeah.
Sorry dude, but it's easier for me to make a single big post than to break it up into multiples.
DH habebat. horrendum ludere. Miror quod contristari flipped oppidum.
Sed saltem. nos non. dissipabit a Lynch. in eum.
Ego sum captum inter. suffragatio. Megiddo et Iso.
Ego male sentire. circa. Iso. Etiam, Megiddo. flips. oppidum. quando. videtur Mafia.
Iso videtur a magis interesting persona ad suffragium. Enim nunc, saltem.
Vote: Iso
Looks like you need to refine that Iso-reading technique of yours.
So you're having difficulty deciding between Megiddo or myself? Why? Break down my posts and tell me what you don't like about them. Why choose me over Megiddo? Do you think one's alignment is indicative of the other's? If so, how? Do you agree with Gricky's points against me? If so, which ones? If not, why is voting for me a more "interesting" choice to pursue?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Anyway, I really have no reason to mention it, as gut reads don't mean much. It's also not something I can debate. Throw down some evidence and I'll gladly show you where you are wrong, but arguing whatever bad feelings you have would be pointless.
You've given indications that it's just a gut read. Plus, it's not like you are voting me. Your blank "Zenjo is town. LenKen gets vote" posts provide no insight whatsoever, so I address them. Someone already asked you why you had suspicion on me and your response was "I'll let you know when I find out". So me asking that question would be redundant. Your stance on the other players hasn't been hinted at until asked.
So, to summarize, your suspicion means nothing to me because it's not currently based on anything practical, whereas your suspicion on other players doesn't seem to be based on anything, hence the questions.
Speaking of your problems, would you mind clarifying your voidvote please? I understand that we have a deadline approaching, but that doesn't give you free reign to vote someone without saying why.
Really? Because this is literally all you've said on the matter. I gather that it's from his T/S list, but I want more from you. What is it about the list that you find scummy, enough so to jump him to number 1 scum?
I'm not quite sure what I saw in his list but the associations I drew from him being scum made perfect sense with the list. It was probably his leaning scum/scum area and his reasoning. I guess the best I can say at this point is "gut".
Iso was one of the people who called Void scum after his first post, and when I asked him why, he claimed gut. IIRC, Iso has also been using gut to call many people town in this game. I've got a town read on Iso, but his Gut reads have pinged my scumdar.
Because of the circumstances. You coming out and being set on Void being scum with the reasoning of "Gut" just doesn't sit well with me. I agree that he's scummy, but I didn't see it when you so brazenly called it. I thought maybe I missed something in his first post of the game, but for you to be so sure with "Gut" was unnerving. Then I remembered that you had used Gut to clear some people earlier in the game too.
Now there's nothing wrong with a gut read, but leaning on it and misusing it seems suspicious. Mostly because if your "Gut" reads end up being correct every time, I begin to suspect that you are working with insider information, scum information. I begin to suspect that you just know who's town and who's scum and you are looking for the easy points.
So, your use of Gut in this game has struck me as scummy and it's worth keeping an eye on.
Well, when bodies start piling up, that's when keeping an eye on your reads will pay off. Like I've said, the only thing suspicious so far is how quick you were to read Void based on Gut and your conviction of said read.
Well, it makes it look like you had that inside information, like you are trying to gather town points, much like a bussing attempt. The speed with which you called it was unnatural, as you called him scum after his first post in. Also, if he does turn out to be scum, I'll find it scummy that you were so convinced that he was scum but denied him being the day's lynch.
The more scummy thing would be if multiple gut reads turned out to be true. If you are just magically calling gut reads that end up being what you say they are, then you are either the best gut read townie to play the game or, more likely, scum.
See, this isn't what you told me when I asked why you voted void. You said gut, not his T/S list. I had already guessed that it was something to do with his T/S list, considering it was his only post of the game so far. Generally, I find that it's much harder to pin scum based off of just one post in the game, especially the first post a person makes. I wouldn't call this me "somehow" finding my way to a possible conclusion here. This is just a line of logic to watch for.
Well, like I've said, after a players only post in the game, I still find it rather hard to pin them scum or town. I might be leaning one way or the other, but by no means do I feel confidant in the read from one post to outright call a person town/scum. So for you to do it is unnatural to me.
This seems like possible WIFOM, but I'll remind you that we don't lynch for information only, we lynch to catch scum. Information just happens to be a happy bonus sometimes. If void does turn out to be scum, you denying it will look suspicious, such as you saying "Hey, this guy over here is scum, I know it, but lets not lynch him today, probably not worth it."
It's not. Why would you think that? All I've said is your confident early read on Void is suspicious, especially now with Void looking worse later in the day. I've said that your other Gut reads are worth watching to see if there's any pattern there as well. I've never once said you are scum, just that you have done some possibly scummy things that need to be monitored. You seem to be making a mighty leap to conclusions.
Was going to respond to KCC, but I need to get to work. I'm already late. FNM tonight, dunno when I'll be back.
I had thought you provided more analysis on the subject in a few posts shortly following, but I could be wrong. If I am, your Gut is just as much to watch as Iso's.
Well, I stand corrected. Still, the fact that he was so sure from his gut read to place a vote just confirms my suspicion.
I should take this time to explain that I'm not a gut, player, if you couldn't tell. I will use gut here and there, but when I do, I mean it as "I can't tell you why or how, but this post gives me good/bad/adjective feelings". I take notes on my own gut as points to go and reread. However, I've seen gut used in several games by scum who are trying to gain townie points. They say "Gut town/scum read" with little or no analysis as to why, and later they point to that gut read to relieve pressure on them and attempt to fool the town. I don't have a problem with these reads if it's a statement that starts like "Gut read BECAUSE" but when there isn't a reason or attempted explanation, it's something worth noting. A gut read like that gives me scummy vibes, but is only actually scummy once more information is gained.
I value analysis much, much more than any single persons gut. Especially my own.
Logic leap? How so? Void is looking scummier with each post he makes. The T/S list was bad, yes, but not enough to pin him as scum. As he posted, specifically the Miracule vote/unvote (which contradicts his T/S lists logic, btw), he became progressively worse and incredibly scummy. Iso's quick gut read, by relation, became more and more suspicious.
I didn't say that Iso right on all gut accounts, reread that bit I have there. It's an if/then statement. IF Iso is right about Void, THEN it's scumpoints IMO. IF Iso ends up pinning other players on gut as well, THEN it's my vote. I'll grant that Iso could be wrong and Void could be town, but Void has a pretty pile of scummy posts so I'm confident that he's scum and I'm worried that Iso's scum call on Void might have been some sort of bus-slip for being too early.
Agreed. Hence the vote, plus reasoning towards the end.
Derp, how hard is it to see that your Gut was based on the T/S list, you said that in the gut-post in question. What you didn't say was anything ABOUT the T/S post. You just said "Gut read Void scum T/S list BYE!" oh and the vote that I forgot about. Since there's none of the T/S list analysis in that post, then saying it's based on the T/S list amounts to nothing, because then the question becomes "WHAT about the T/S list?". If you had seen these Associations, then why didn't you talk about them instead of about nothing. Here are your posts following the Void T/S list:
At this point, you have provided no reasoning for the vote, other than mentioning the T/S list, which is vague at best. You respond with:
Which is clearly a lie. You've vaguely referred to your reasons, or I should say reason. You even having multiple reasons isn't evident at this point. This attack onto me having suspicion of you is the first I've heard of you having player analysis that points to him being scum. If you had those things that are "indicative of scum" then why didn't you post them? That seems like a pretty strong read with lots of analysis to support it, no? But you never posted that or anything like it, and now you are pointing back and saying you did. THAT'S a misrep sir.
Well, as I said earlier, I'm a more analysis-driven player. I write cases and argue a lot. I've played enough to understand that one post may look really bad, but generally isn't the deciding factor in someone's alignment. It's all of their posts as a whole that is the deciding factor to me. So someone taking one post as an end-all-be-all for someone's alignment is strange to me. Especially if there's no analysis, which is very strange to me, bordering on scummy and deserving of some questioning.
As for the Vader pic, should I just have this unquestioning faith in your stomach to play this game? Because as much as I like you as a player, this is the second game I've been in with you, and the first isn't done yet. I know it's a joke pic, but suggesting that I'm scummy for questioning how you play is absurd.
From what? Where are you getting that in the bit that I quoted? Granted, KCC apparently talked you down from the lynch instead of you denying it yourself, but the principal is the same, just with more suspicion on KCC as well. You really should try adding reasoning to things you say sometime.
A valid point, which I addressed when KCC brought it up. You just happened to be the more prominent player in the "Void is scum" exchange, what with your vote and denial of my questions.
Replace the word "bus" with lynch and yeah, I think you got it.Void is a great D2 lynch, if not D1, and yeah, I feel there might be enough suspicious material on Iso at a later point that he may be the last scum. Iso being scum is more dependent on the lives of others though, and until now, I've had him as town. This exchange will prompt a reread and I'll be certain to keep a much closer eye on Iso's actions. He's leaning town for the time being.
So, KCC's definition of gut is good enough for Iso. So why does Iso now have these player associations and interactions that seem like they would be an easy thing to point out at the time? I mean, he's only got one post to analyze, I just don't see what's so hard about it. I'm reading gut as a poor excuse for something more sinister.
First, I never said I didn't understand why the T/S list was scummy, I have my own issues with the list and had suspicions based off of it, but I'm not one to run a marathon with my suspicions and end at auto-scum. Second, if Iso had said any of that, this would never be the issue. I'm not questioning whether the T/S list was scummy. I'm questioning Iso's speed in reaching his conclusions and rather mysterious reasoning for getting there.
"Iso trusts his gut! That's suspicious!" You are ridiculous, dude! You are taking every possible scenario and twisting it to fit your declaration of "Iso is scummy!" Let me give you an example of my gut.
Mean Girls Mafia just ended. I was town. In a last moment of clarity, my gut told me that arimnaes and pinkfloyd were the last two scum, but I went against my gut and voted for Guardman anyway. Guess who the last two scum were?
So how is trusting my gut scummy?
So no matter what, gut reads are scummy to you when people declare them? Again, you're ridiculous.
"If Iso follows his gut and leads us to a scum lynch on Day 1 when we could potentially be mislynching otherwise, it's totally suspicious! Because he couldn't deflect towards the fact that the deadline meant impaired judgment if he were scum or anything!" How would it not be more suspicious if I just said "lol gut" and Void flipped town? I think you KNOW that Void is going to flip scum and you are using this as an excuse to set up a nonsensical fall for me afterwards.
What posts of Void's do you find scummy?
Because it's gut! What part of that are you not understsanding?
So now I'm misrepping my own statements? I think I would know what I mean better than you would. It's not a lie at all - I made my reasons clear. My reasons were the associations that I drew by looking at Void's T/S list that gave me a gut reaction that Void was scum. I can't substantiate it any better than that - the best I can say is that it fits my worldview of this game.
You use a lot of unnatural language in this chunk of words. At any rate, if a player scumslips, they scumslip. One post can be the deciding factor in a person's alignment.
Yes.
Suggesting I'm scummy for the way that I play is absurd.
You should really stop OMGUSing sometime.
As for how I gathered you are scum from that, it's simple. Let me break it down for you.
"This seems like possible WIFOM, but I'll remind you that we don't lynch for information only, we lynch to catch scum."
Firstly, information lynches are perfectly acceptable, especially in a PoE situation.
"If void does turn out to be scum, you denying it will look suspicious, such as you saying "Hey, this guy over here is scum, I know it, but lets not lynch him today, probably not worth it."""
Then why would I draw attention to him in the manner that I did as soon as he posted his T/S list? You are grasping at straws and your arguments are making no sense at all.
Which questions of yours did I deny?
Can you contradict yourself any harder?
"Void is a great lynch" meaning you think Void is scum.
I was the first to voice suspicions of Void.
"I think Iso might be scum" meaning, obviously, you think I'm scum.
Again, this doesn't mesh well with the thought of "Void is a great lynch".
Whose lives are my alignment dependent on?
"Until now, I've had Iso as town." Well okay. And your argument against me is "Iso used gut." Clearly you think gut is scummy, but you have not expressed WHY. You have also admitted to using gut as a basis for your arguments.
"He's leaning town to me for the time being." But I thought I was the last scum! But I thought you had me as town until now!
...when you have yet to provide your own.
...when you have yet to provide your own.
Which is absolutely not what you said up there.
Gricky absolutely reads as busing Void right now and as well as the fact that he apparently can't get his opinion straightened out on my own alignment and I think we have an excellent Day 2 lynch candidate here.
I think I did later go back to try doing some analysis on it, but the point was I got strong scum vibes from it immediately upon first reading it, so Iso's reaction wasn't surprising at all.
I disagree. -Under different circumstances, I would have placed a vote there too. The only reason I didn't was to avoid sparking a wagon in a direction I wasn't expecting to pursue Day 1.
Maybe that's the wrong expression, but the issue is this:
Why are you even discussing things that need to be stated in a series of nested IF statements? -How is that even close to being relevant now, especially when we have zero alignment info to work with?
First, I'm not taking every possible scenario and making it fit you as scum. If you had posted actual reasons with your gut, I'm not suspicious of you. If Void flips town, I'm not suspicious of you. I'm not even willing to vote you until multiple Iso-gut-reads flip and I can compare your gut to their actual alignment.
Second, I like the story you tell about MGM, but do you ever post your gut reads there? Can you link to where? Cause if not, this is nothing more than an awesome story. That's the thing about gut reads, they are totally unconfirmable and very unreliable. And referencing gut reads in other games makes them more unreliable. However, if you can link to you actually calling Arn and PF as scum in a gut post, it will make me feel better about your gut as a whole.
Lastly, you trusting your gut isn't the scummy bit, it's trusting your gut so early in a deadline situation to vote a player with one post. It's just extremely out of place for you to vote while barely saying anything about why.
Reading is tech sir. I've said several times that Gut reads are fine as long as there is something to justify the gut read, such as analysis. I keep saying that if you had posted "Gut read BECAUSE -insert reasoning here-" then there wouldn't be a problem. I'd still be surprised by you voting, but it's no biggie as long as I can see your logic.
It would be equally suspicious either way. I'm not arguing the Void-town side because of two reasons. 1. I don't see him as town from the posts he's made so far and 2. The timing of your read and vote, like I've said many times now, is quick and suspicious, combined that we can't see your logic because it's all just Gut and your conviction regarding your read, and it gives me the impression that you are attacking a player you know is scum.
I also love how you are trying to recycle my own argument against you to try and be against me.
That's actually answered in the last response I gave, towards the end.
So you actively chose not to reveal whatever analysis you had that lead you to your conclusions and chose instead to just say gut? I mean, you can even say both things, because I understand it's gut, by the important part is that we see how you reach your conclusions, gut or not. Gut is not an excuse to hide your reasoning, but you seem to think so.
The misrep is you saying you revealed your reasoning which you clearly didn't do, also known as lying. I guess misrep isn't the best word for it, but that's semantics really. In your posts where I ask you to clarify your vote and stance on Void, you talk nothing about player associations but instead insist that you'd already explained it and refuse to expand more than that. The only thing you said that's remotely related to your possible reasoning is you referring to the T/S list, but that was a painfully obvious fact to begin with.
Also, with your sentence "I think I would know what I mean better than you would." It almost sounds like you are attacking me for asking about the information that you refused to post. It sounds like you are intentionally keeping secrets or something. Wouldn't I know what you are talking about if you had posted that when you said you did?
Dunno what you see in the wording here, but you are right, a scumslip is a scumslip. So, where's that in Void's T/S list? I understand your argument that he's got questionable content and scummy reads on a few players, but now you are inferring that you have seen a scumslip in the post too, which is a new argument from you and news to me.
Good to know you are encouraging a terrible style of play for those around you. "Always trust Iso! That way it will make his scum games easier for him!" Good luck with that.
Isn't that how we come to conclusions on people? "Hey, player X is playing scummy, let's lynch him!" seems like how most, if not all lynches go. You are playing with gut and I come from the logic that a player who relies on gut isn't one to be trusted. Gut is a scum tool more often than a town tool, so if that's the way you play, we have issues.
How is that OMGUS? You call me scum with no line of logic behind it, so I'm asking why.
Firstly, your conviction with Void being scum was enough for you to forget about the information issue from Emo, so it leads me to believe that you had no doubt Void was scum, in which case why unvote someone you don't think is town? For information that you already jumped to ignore?
As for why you would attack him first and quickly if he's your scumbuddy, I think it's because you are smart. The list was clearly bad and several people caught on to that fact without your influence. I think you preempted the town's response to the list by posting quick weak reasoning with your gut read in hopes of looking townie if/when Void flips scum. Also, this question is WIFOM, but I figured I'd share my reasoning anyway.
The one's where I ask for your reasoning and you tell me you already posted it, which I pointed out in my last response was a lie.
It's not a contradiction and I've explained why already, but lets go through it again. Your timing is fishy on the VoidGutCall and your conviction afterward, combined with scummy play from Void, lead me to believe that Void is scum and you are trying to bus him. The fact that you use a quick gut read makes me think that you were trying to find any reason to get the wagon going and look better yourself, and the fact that you have no actual provable reasoning and never do give it makes the gut that much weaker. Now, given all that, I still would rather lynch Void and I still have you as town because you being scum in my theory relies on your Gut call matching Void's alignment.
As for not posting the reasons why Gut is scummy, you should reread, because I have said why, but maybe not all at once. I shall try here. You should remember though that Gut with some reasoning behind it is perfectly fine. Unreasoned gut like yours is what I'm picky about.
Unreasoned gut is scummy because:
1. It allows scum to active lurk, posting Gut reads with no evidence in order to attempt to provide actual content or just seem like they have actual reads.
2. It allows scum the easy hop on/off of a wagon
3. It allows scum to gain townie points by pointing back at gut reads and saying "I told you so" to some effect.
4. It provides scum a weak explanation when questioned over a read, a player being able to say "I dunno, it just feels townie/scummy"
5. It implies a player is being secretive or is missing logical steps towards their conclusions, as they can tell us their suspect but they can't/won't say why/how, which is a scumtell to me.
6. It gives scum a placeholder for reasoning, supplying the initial read and then giving the reasoning for said read at a later point, once they've come up with a sufficient reason.
That's all I can think of for now. Note that very few uses of these rules by themselves make a player scum, but it does make Gut reads a thing to look out for. I believe that Iso is in violation of the second, third and sixth reasons in regards to his VoidGutRead, which made me suspicious and want to keep a close eye on Iso.
What are you talking about with both of these? I'm unsure of what you are referring to that I'm not providing, but if the first one is asking for my own analysis of the Void T/S list, I provided that in the last post I made. I hadn't brought it up because I didn't want to derail the Emo lynch, someone else on my scumlist. If the second one is referring to my reasons that I support the Emo lynch, I said when I claimed support for the lynch that all my points in the Manders case still stood, so go find those if you must.
Whatever. This was all intended to be brought up on day three, that's why I posted my suspicion of you in the final thoughts bit, because the argument would have been more sensible then instead of now, or not at all if lynch and NK information doesn't line up with your gut reads. I didn't want to fly in with this massively new argument and seagull attack the thread with it, so I referred to it in my final thoughts to give some insight into what I'm concerned about. I didn't want to interrupt the Emo lynch with Void ramblings as I see them both as scum and was happy with Emo today and Void tomorrow, then a closer look at Iso on day three if it was warranted. Instead, my hand was forced and it makes the argument look more convoluted than it is.
Well I got that Iso's reaction didn't surprise you, but I had thought your analysis was there earlier than it was. Upon checking, I didn't find anything expansive in the area I was checking Iso for, except for the comment about being just as disturbed by what wasn't there. Your read that you gave was much more subtle as well, whereas Iso's was direct about being a gut read. I latched onto that one at the time, but your's deserves the same amount of suspicion for being gut.
Noted, but I can't analyze what I can't see.
It wasn't intended to be discussed until at least D2, preferably D3. If the day had ended with an Emo lynch and more information came to light like I thought was going to happen, the whole discussion might have never happened, depending on what information is revealed. My hand was forced by Iso taking exception to my suspicion on him.
I bolded something else Gricky has done in this following quote, both in Homestuck and this game:
"Gut because t/s list and associations." That is my logic. I'm not sure what you don't understand.
THIS MAKES NO SENSE
GUYS I WISH WE HAD ENOUGH SUPPORT TO LYNCH GRICKY TODAY
I love how you're trying to take my argument as your own.
Yes.
Except I have revealed my reasoning and you refuse to accept it. And if it was so obvious, then why are you beating a dead horse?
No, I'm attacking you for trying to misrep what I'm saying because I know damn good and well what I mean when I say it. I've had this argument at least half a dozen times in Mafia and lo and behold, I've always been right because I KNOW WHAT I MEAN WHEN I SAY SOMETHING. Imagine that.
The scumslip was the associations he drew with his t/s list. Have I ever mentioned to you that I hate repeating myself?
Thanks.
If you're saying that the way I play is inherently scummy, then no conclusion can be drawn from it and you have no leg to stand on with this argument.
It's OMGUS because you're attacking your detractors for attacking you. I've pointed out dozens of flaws in your logic and reasoning - that is my line of logic. Plus you're adamantly defending Void who I know for a fact is 100% scum. Your argument is "derf gut is scummy". If anyone lacks a line of logic, it is you.
Last I checked, I'm still voting Void.
"Several people" meaning KCC? If you think I'm so smart, why do you think I would A. not substantiate my reasoning (at least according to you) and B. if I were scum, don't you think I wouldn't make such an obvious move, if you think I'm smart?
Why on earth are you pushing me so hard for it but giving KCC no flak at all?
2. Do I look like I'm hopping off this wagon? I was the first one who called Void out.
3. Townie points for a weak bus? Don't insult me.
6. I have provided sufficient reasoning.
Then I'll have to re-look at both of those.
"More convoluted"
> Implying "gut is scummy" is a convoluted argument
I really hope all of you push for Gricky's lynch tomorrow if I die. Especially you, KCC.
Ha wow. I'm not going to respond to Iso's last post just yet, as I'm burnt out on wallposts for the night, but I'll get to it at the next opportunity I can. I was going to make this one last post where I talk about how Iso keeps referencing that he mentioned player associations when he clearly didn't, and I was going to do so be reposting all the posts from his initial statement to when I question him. It goes like this:
At which point I stopped looking for the explanation because I'd just gone through several posts and pages and my question was downright denied. Then I just happened to click onto the next page and the first post is:
So wow. I totally missed this post where Iso does actually mention the player associations and whatnot, although it was like pulling teeth getting it from him. I feel somewhat like a jackass.
Let me see if I can get this straight:
Your read on Gricky, Iso: I think this is because his somewhat overzealous attack on your gut? That whole interaction?
Yep. Plus his argumentation makes absolutely no sense from a town mindset. He's trying to set up a mislynch based on a correct lynch.
KCC died that Night. And then I counterclaimed Void on Day 2 and shot Gricky on Night 2. They were both scum.
I don't expect many people to read the whole thing, but here's what I've been referencing.
Basically, Gricky's play (and even his argument against me) in Magical Girls is literally almost exactly what he did in Homestuck, down to a T.
He was scum in that game. He is scum in this game.
I snipped a few quotes and added text (like in Megiddo's quoted post) to make things more relevant if you don't choose to view the full quote and to cut out stuff that wasn't relevant to the incident I am referencing. Anyone is welcome to see if I'm lying about this by checking for themselves.
As I said, I don't expect everyone to read the whole thing, but there is no "condensed" version. Even some of the phrasing is almost exactly the same as Homestuck Gricky. If you refuse to read the quote wall, then at least skim it because I just spent like 40+ minutes collecting and snipping quotes for your convenience and you can at least read a few of the quotes when he starts his terrible argument to see the parallels here.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The average lynching order all other things be equal:
loran > Cult > Scum > SK > Anti-Town Neutral > Info Lynch > Neutral > Shot in the Dark
As we can see by my list Info Lynches are way down there.
At the risk of derailing the thread with yet more theory, lynching a known SK is much better for the town than lynching a known mafioso because it removes an entire kill from each Night phase. However, I am always down to lynch a loran.
#6 Zajnet: This my friends, is the definition of a scum bandwagon vote. Zajnet has three total posts in this game. One of them says he has been busy and hasn't read anything yet. The next one says "kill it with fire" as he votes me, and the third one is correcting a typo. The timing is also perfect as he puts me into L-2 range. 0 content, yet he's comfortable putting me at L-2 without any explanation. If you want to find scum, start by looking right here.
I'll avenge you and stuff. This post has pretty reasonable wagon analysis.
EBWoP: Iso vs. GrickyTimmick feels like a town slapfight.
Guardman and tordeck seem very townish.
Ahlyis and Wessel are reasonably trustworthy.
Arnnaria and Audiho seem a bit lost but innocent enough.
Cyouni I will probably never learn how to read.
kpaca and Seppel are claimed neutrals.
Infinis and Zajnet are shady.
EBWoPx2: I'm still ignoring Wheat_Grinder, obv. (He's probably town.)
Also, I copied that list of names from the pre-modkill vote count, so anyone whose name is not listed (DV and Void off the top of my head) hasn't voted or been voted recently.
I didn't want to forget to suggest that an unlimited town vig with no better targets should shoot at kpaca toNight to test his claim.
Also, though this is merely for sake of completion, I think Meggido is likely town (as stated in my first post of this series) for being worried about thanking posts as way for scum to communicate.
I don't expect many people to read the whole thing, but here's what I've been referencing.
Basically, Gricky's play (and even his argument against me) in Magical Girls is literally almost exactly what he did in Homestuck, down to a T.
He was scum in that game. He is scum in this game.
I snipped a few quotes and added text (like in Megiddo's quoted post) to make things more relevant if you don't choose to view the full quote and to cut out stuff that wasn't relevant to the incident I am referencing. Anyone is welcome to see if I'm lying about this by checking for themselves.
As I said, I don't expect everyone to read the whole thing, but there is no "condensed" version. Even some of the phrasing is almost exactly the same as Homestuck Gricky. If you refuse to read the quote wall, then at least skim it because I just spent like 40+ minutes collecting and snipping quotes for your convenience and you can at least read a few of the quotes when he starts his terrible argument to see the parallels here.
Read it despite quote walls being annoying, didn't see too many parallels, will look closer later.
2. It was TheIceMans point in SC Mafia. It was Wessel who noticed it. It was I who tried to connect the dots and make a case of it. Concerning originality on cases, do you mean I should just pick a random player and make a case on him so I'm sure that I'm credited for pushing it?
Because I can actually easily push for a policy lynch of fluffynoob since it looks like he's playing like in Ghost Story, that is playing like reading a book. But that wouldn't be my case anyway, now would it, because Megiddo was first to mention it.
So what's left of original cases? Arcadic made a scummy post in one of his oh so few, but someone (tordeck?) mentioned that as well. Wouldn't be my case. Gricky has been annoying me royally and I see lots of scummy stuff in his play, but I won't vote him now since a lot of my reasoning possibly stems from feelings of omgus. Need a cooler head about him before I eventually make a case. Oh no, wait, Iso made a case on him. Nevermind. Dragonheart? It's been done. Myself? Seems rather stupid, and I don't think I could've come uo with any arguments you guys haven't allready made. Push for Seppel because he's playing like a surferboy, not contributing and generally acting neutral? No, this has been brought up by others, and discussed. Plus I actually believe Seppel is what he says he is. DV, AI, AE or Void? Not really enough posts to make anything out of, I'm afraid. Inifus, Ayileh or Arnnaria? If I actually thought they were scummy I could have made a push, I'll grant you that. kpaca? Let's find scum, not lynch neutrals who seems harmless for now. WheatGrinder? He's acting strangely, isn't he? Only problem is that he's posting in fricking latin, which is superawesome and very exciting to follow. If he's scum and gambiting with it then he won't be caught by me, as I really really want to see how that develops. Iso, Guardman and tordeck then. Noooo I don't want to make a case on someone I think is town. How about yourself, you ask? Well that would just be pure omgus and with no reasoning at all, so that makes no sense. Did I cover all? I'm not sure. Did I end up making some kind of town/scum-list? Apparently.
I'm sorry if that's a pain to read. I was pretty frustrated when I started ranting there, but making the list actually had a small terapeutic effect. Thank you, and goooooood night.
Note to self: investigate ways to evoke emotions in posters.
What prevents you from, say, making a case on someone that's had a case made on them without just simply barning someone else's case?
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Seppel - http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=8591196&postcount=15 - full claims his whole role in one go.
Kpaca - http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=8594303&postcount=122 and http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=8594383&postcount=141 - takes two posts with several lines of questioning between to give up full role info
DH - http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=8604774&postcount=400 and http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=8604831&postcount=403 - also in two posts but with a single question between
Now tell me Arc, how DH is scummy for how he conducted his claim and yet Kpaca is not?
Ive either been /in, /spectate or /mod for just about every game Dragon has on this site. If anyone can read him I feel I can and I am 90% sure this is his town play.
The Family
The claim does nothing to sway me. The ability, while technically confirmable, is extremely hard to activate. Also the entire claim reads as one where he is more concerned with presenting a story about his "disappointing" role then claiming. The fact he is also sort of dancing around his flavor and such makes me feel that Dragon is lying about his claim.
As for his info claim and win condition claim, here is how I look at it: Either he gets modkilled, problem solved, or nothing happens which means the win condition claim is meaningless. Most mods while give the scum the town win condition if it's not in the OP and it is asked for, so I see it as moot.
Finally Dragon while I do believe you to be scum, I can understand why people want to policy lynch you. Your attitude and demeanor this game has been bad for the health of the game in my opinion. You advocated for info lynching, the majority of the game explained why it was wrong, you ignored them and continued to advocate it. When people started calling you scummy for it, you shut down and basically are calling people intolerant and trying to turn yourself into the victim by saying we are wrong and that we are being intolerant towards your playstyle. Your stubbornness on campaigning for an issue that we shouldn't even be discussing in game (it's better left for the theory thread) and petty/childish attitude towards people has been negatively effecting my enjoyment of this game and from the reactions of others I don't seem to be the only one.
Deus benedicat hoc stipes.
Putatis ego sum felix. *** hoc rerum?
Conclusio?
God bless this post.
Do you think I am happy. with this matter?
The conclusion?
My point was that you claimed your role and then later claimed your name with time between. DH did the same with less time between. Both of you basically claimed the same way and yet Arc is trying to call DH scummy for it but is taking your word on the matter as to your neutrality. Something is off there IMO.
The Family
I personally find a big difference between their claims. Dragon was a L-2 claim where he mostly discussed his disappointment with his role and then skirted around his flavor issues. kpaca was claiming in response to Seppel's claim and was trying to be a benefit by bringing what he thought as relevant info forward.
Ive yet to see Dragon not disappointed in his role when he has had to claim. Thats a Null.
Arc went after DH for multiple null tells and tried to twist them as scumtells. I dont like that.
The Family
No formatting was retained. The name was not quoted, obviously.
To make this argument is daft.
Dragonheart91 - as sad as it is, this is a town game for DH
GrickyTimmick - Gut read, his line of posting sits well with me
Tordeck - me duh
AsianInvasion - this one is more a neutral to leanign town read based off his posts and interactions with Seppel This could quickly change depending on Seppel's flip
Ahlyis - I just like this guy's posting. Seems town to me
Guardman - Gut read only, leaning town. I always have a hard time reading Guard though
Wessel - just a gut read at this point, nothing concrete
Arnnaria - just a gut read at this point, nothing concrete
Wheat_Grinder - Scum like to try and hide behind PRs. But scum generally do so as a means of not actually playing the game. Wheaties appears to be doing the best to actually scum hunt though the PR.
Seppel - claimed, no reason to doubt as of yet
kpaca - claimed, no reason to doubt as of yet
Audinho - something is off with his posting. gut read only at this point
Arcadic - his attempts to paint nulltells as scumtells concerning DH make me wary of him
Megiddo - I dont put it past Iso (who is my #1 scumspect to bus a buddy this early)
Deaths_Vampire - Ive already pointed out why this guy is scum
Iso - same with him
POST MOAR!!
Void - yes I understand v/la but you better have something good to say when you get back
Prophylaxis
Infinis
Zajnet
fluffyn00b
Archmage_Eternal
Cyouni
The Family
Basically, it would have been really easy for tordeck to hammer me and just play it off as killing the obvious scum player. Instead he's actively defending me. (Because he actually knows my meta.)
This is in the middle of a wallpost and that's all the analysis there is to glean from it. It may not look like much, but Iso uses this line commonly, as both town and scum, and I take it to mean "This post is insincere". It's regarding the tone of the post and how believable it sounds. I'm not sure how Iso prefers to go about determining it, whether it be by reading the post out loud or looking for punctuation or whatever, but this is what he's talking about, as evidenced later.
This is in response to Ahl voting for Seppel rather than Meg, even though he says Meg might possibly be scum. Evidence of Vote Mongering here, IE "Lynch please?"
This is really the only other clue into Iso's reasoning, where he tell's Aud what's wrong with Meg. He says it's terribly forced, with reinforces the idea that Iso thinks the tone of Meg's post is faked and unrealistic. I'm not assuming there's anything more than that, since that's all he's indicated. Funny how so few words from a player can mean so much, and it's still not enough for Iso's Meg case to actually be legit.
May I remind you, his "case" is that one post and it's funky tone. One post and one point does not a case make.
Not one but two cases of Vote Mongering in the same post, that is if I'm reading the top part right. He's talking to Ahl in the top part, saying Ahl should switch his vote from Seppel to Meg, because Meg's scum. If I'm reading that wrong, my bad, I must have forgot how the english language and, for that matter, using references works.
This is the only other times Iso addresses a post of Meg's outside the original tone post. The top he attacks Meg, saying he's misrepping and strawmanning Iso's case. How can it be strawmanned? It literally is one point about one post! It is a strawman itself. It's strawmanning all the other posts that Meg makes.
The second part is nonsensical and is thrown right out the window.
More Vote Mongering. I believe Iso's had more Vote Mongering than he's had posts explaining his stance on his own vote. And this wagon has steam behind it? Unbelievable.
Vote Mongering. Again.
So begins the response to Iso part of my post, which should prove to be great fun.
I can't know for sure what your reads are, but I can make educated guesses based on the posts you've given us. I can also prevent you from saying "oh yeah, that was a gut read, I guess my gut's off this game" when you get Meg killed and it turns out Meg's town. The case is weak and you barely post about it, but you post enough to indicate that you don't like the tone of Meg's post, reading it as insincere. You can call that a gut read if you want, but in this case of Gut, I just defined what it is you are looking at. So we don't have this vague word "gut" anymore, like you were trying to switch to before I caught you, we have "Tone Analysis" to call it. It would be an acceptable point, even though I disagree with it, if it weren't the only point you make on Meg. Your Vote Mongering is absolutely terrible.
See, you hide behind that word too much. Gut is vague and gives you advantages for when you are scum, as I explained in that game. And before you go on and on about how I was scum and using this argument is scum meta, the points I made, basically "Using gut all the time is scummy because it lets you provide little reason for jumping on and off wagon's and getting lynched, all while hiding behind the word Gut", are all still legit. The meta was me trying to trap you with it at the end of D2. If it looks like I'm trying to set up a trap, that's probably a good meta call. If I'm just referencing my own argument, it doesn't reflect on my alignment and it doesn't reflect on the validity of said point.
Point is, overuse of Gut is scummy and I believe that's what's happening here. At least, Gut is being used as the only reason to carry a terrible case as far as you can carry it.
I see you are using Playground styles to mount your defense. Well played, how shall I ever escape unscathed!/sarcasm.
Seriously though, At least I've got multiple reasons to back up my statements. All you can say is "Gut" and now this playground BS, along with "Vote please?"
I know I answered it above, but reusing an argument from a game where I was scum doesn't mean I'm following my scum meta. If I were using Gut to trap you for potentially bussing a scumbuddy, then it would be my scum meta. However, the points I had about Gut were still completely sound, just the way I was using them were for my own scummy gain since I knew Void would get lynched and I wanted to turn some of the suspicion around on you. Here is nothing like that. First, I think Meg is town, not scum, so there's no setup. Also, I'm not trying to get you lynched on subsequent days, unless we are lynching Aud today, cause I'm perfectly fine with voting you too. It's really up to the rest of the town. Also, Meg is nowhere near looking like the sure thing lynch that Void was.
I even stated after the game, and we had conversations about my thoughts on Gut and how it's mostly a scumtool. I told you that even though I flipped scum in that game, all my Gut analysis still held it's ground because what I was saying was right, I was just trying to use it to trap you on D3.
Oh, so you agree with me then. Good to know that you yourself understand that you are doing nothing but Vote Mongering.
Or was that Sarcasm? I really don't know cause it turns out I really wasn't lying. Imagine that.
I have consistently said that even though the meta is present, I'm not taking much stock in it as I am the actions of this game. I've stated it more than once IIRC. If you need me to find it I can, but it would only prove that you aren't reading as much as you are skimming the thread, more proof of scummy actions. Do I need to find it for you?
Wow. This isn't addressed to me, but I'd like to point out that not only does he think he's pinned the scumteam (see the last part about sorting out the neutrals), but his suspects are the weakest bunch ever.
Meg: I've already explained why and how this case is weaksauce.
Proph: Iso had a vote on him early early on over one post, but I can't remember Iso saying anything about it since then
Me: He's calling me scum because I'm calling him out, a blatent OMGUS. It's also partially because he's tying me to the Meg case, which is weak, so it makes the reasoning for why I'm scum even weaker. Also, I remember Iso saying, in the endgame of Trisk where he was scum, that he usually tries to kill his dissenters first. That being said, the fact that he's not waiting until night to go after me gives me confidence in my reads. If he's scum, I wouldn't doubt if I've pegged more than a few scum.
DH: Once again, I can't remember Iso saying much on the DH wagon, but I believe DH to be poorly playing town, so it doesn't surprise me that Iso would be willing to take advantage of the wagon.
Tordeck: I can only assume that Iso thinks Tordeck is scum because Tordeck agrees with me who agrees with Tordeck. Which makes his Tordeck issue a by product of my case, which is a by product of the Meg case. That makes the Tordeck issue even weaker than my case, which is pretty damn weak.
Oh, look more Vote Mongering. Can you say "Lynch please x3"? Oh wait, you already did.
1. Dead talking scum is still a major problem and causes headache's for the town. Regardless of whether anyone listens to you, you still get the opportunity to be incredibly disruptive, and opportunity I wouldn't like you to have.
2. I expect you should get vigged. Anyone with a shot would be smart to fire at you. Unless we lynch you, then we should fire at Seppel.
3. How's that work? If anything, you slipped that you know Dragon is town, because I'm saying that line in response to you suggesting you be the target. So, if you are assuming that Dragon's telling the truth in your post, then I'm assuming it too when I respond to say that's a terrible idea, and then you hold the point against me as if it were a scumslip. Nevermind the fact that I happen to think Dragon is just poorly playing town at this point. Nevermind the implied sarcasm inserted there because rezzing you is an utterly bad idea. I think the fact that you are turning this around on me after you quickly assumed Dragon wasn't lying about his ability yourself is a scumslip, and it's at the very least hypocritical.
Lastly, on the vote, nice exit strategy from the Meg case. Just pointing out what you are doing, since you know it's falling apart.
Ever since I started saying the case on Meg was weak and attacking you vicariously when responding to Aud, you've begun to have random suspicion on me, not saying exactly why, just that you have suspicion. Once I get louder about the subject, so do you. You have basically added me to your scumlist because I disagree with you and you've added Tordeck for the same reasons, because he agrees with me. So yeah, let's bump that up to 2 OMGUS while we're at it.
The WIFOM? Comes from 1. calling yourself town 2. calling three players scum like you know it for a fact and 3. being all "hey my role is useful!" about it. Totes WIFOM.
I'm not misconstruing your arguments, I'm trying to analyze them. I do it because you almost never say what you mean, even after a good prodding. It's like pulling teeth with you, so I'm skipping the effort and providing my analysis of your stance, at least based off of what you've said so far.
Also, nice strawman of the argument. "It's almost always scum who do this" is a terrible point that offers nothing legit to the game. The qualifier Almost means that there are legit times when town makes this argument and you know it.
Practice what you preach, buuuuuuuuddy.
Unvote, Vote Iso
Totes willing to throw my vote down on Aud though. Whatever seems like the best play.
One wagon I'm very interested in seeing is unvote, vote Iso.
You know, there's some guilt on your head here too. Your early /barnvote onto Iso's Meg wagon looks pretty damn sketchy now that Iso's backing down from it. AI's too. Your flop on Iso is weak, and it really really makes me think my recruiting theory is totes right. Thanks for the vote though.
Cool. I'm still pegging you for scum, especially after this. Earlier in my mafia career, I would get into massive wallpost fights with other townies that I just thought were scum, and it would never end and kill the activity level. Usually, when the other guy refuses to give up on the matter, he's town at the end of the game. Town fight back, scum don't.
Even if Seppel is telling the truth about his role, without knowing what abilities he and AI might gain, he gives us no advantage. It's all just so he wins the game, or at least has a chance to. Problem is, that's only if we assume he's telling the truth, which I'm very hesitant to do. Also, I'm thinking that his WinCon has evolved a bit. I remember him saying early that he just had to find his buddy, now it's find and still live to the end. Somethings fishy, I just can't put my finger on it.
If this is what happened and the scum don't have daychat, then both Iso and DH should be modkilled, unless I missed where Iso posted that information into the thread. If they don't have daychat, then Iso must have PMed Dragon about it, which would be a rules violation and punishable by daykill.
It's far far more likely though that DH is town.
It was Aud, now Iso. You're theory posts read to me like town stuck in a bad spot. You are somewhat newer, so I'm not surprised to see some wild theory out there, nor am I surprised to see people trying to take advantage of it.
It's not Seppel I'm arguing to "save". It's AI's "super special" ability that he gets if Seppel is still around. If having this ability is going to be of great benefit toward the town, I was looking to scumhunt elsewhere. But I've already taken my vote off Seppel, so I guess the point is moot and doesn't need to be answered and given more information to the scum.
Dragonheart91 (8) - Guardman, Arnnaria, Cyouni, Wheat_grinder, Megiddo, zajnet, Infinis, kpaca
Iso (3) - tordeck, Gricky_Timmick, Seppel
Megiddo (2) - AsianInvasion, Wessel
Infinis (1) - Void
Audinho (1) - Gricky Timmick
Ahylis (1) - Dragonheart91
Gricky Timmick (1) - Iso
With 23 Alive, it's still 12 to lynch.
As a general reminder, play nice. I'm not above modkilling someone for continuous flaming/ad hom posts. I'd rather not but it won't stop me.
Currently Playing:
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It doesn't say that DH is Scum for it, but it does say that he gets no Townie pants to wear just because he was able to quote it.
That's not how I remember it. I seem to recall him having said from the start that he had to survive to the end. He initially just said he was looking for his friend, but when he actually made a claim, his claimed wincon was find the buddy AND survive.
That's how I remember it anyway.
His very first post. It's all there. Finding friend. Living to the end.
Everything.
Alright, well then nevermind about that. Still unsure if Sep is truthing us or lying us.
Unvote
Starting to not like the woe is me in Audio's self-defense.
EWP:
And hasn't Seppel elaborated to just find, not find and survive?
12-11? I'm losing track
Thinking about it more, I think it may be a scumslip. Either a scumslip, or a VERY careless Townie.
Think about it. How did DH know he could quote the Wincon word for word without getting modkilled for it?
He was careful not to quote any other part of his role PM. He even specifically commented on it. So we know he was aware that quoting his role could get him modkilled. So how did he know it was safe to quote the Town wincon? Perhaps because quoting it wasn't quoting anything from his role PM?
I'm going to put my vote back where it belongs.
Vote: Dragon
Also, explain the comment I asked about in my last post re:2-for-1 on a Neutral.
Also, why do you seem to think the game's high-powered when you're trying to argue that your role's practically vanilla?
So you've managed to go through the entire game so far without managing to think of one original thing. I'm highly skeptical.
You have never actually pushed a case. It's always "someone else's case" that you're arguing. First, it's TheIceMan's point on Void. Then it's Iso's case on Megiddo. Nothing is ever attributed to you.
Furthermore, misrepresentation - simply because you're getting plenty of flak doesn't mean you wanted it.
I think you will find that town that doesn't have time for huge walls of text and don't find them constructive to the game will not fight back as well. Huge walls of text murder games, especially when two players are town and equally skilled in writing said walls of text (see Starcraft Mafia, D1, Artifice vs TheIceMan IIRC). Note that I'm not saying you are town here, you are in my leaning scum, but I've seen the longest wallwars in town vs town.
It could also potentially tell you that the quoting of the town wincon is allowed. I've never seen anyone modkilled for it.
1. I assure you, this is completely normal.
2. It was TheIceMans point in SC Mafia. It was Wessel who noticed it. It was I who tried to connect the dots and make a case of it. Concerning originality on cases, do you mean I should just pick a random player and make a case on him so I'm sure that I'm credited for pushing it?
Because I can actually easily push for a policy lynch of fluffynoob since it looks like he's playing like in Ghost Story, that is playing like reading a book. But that wouldn't be my case anyway, now would it, because Megiddo was first to mention it.
So what's left of original cases? Arcadic made a scummy post in one of his oh so few, but someone (tordeck?) mentioned that as well. Wouldn't be my case. Gricky has been annoying me royally and I see lots of scummy stuff in his play, but I won't vote him now since a lot of my reasoning possibly stems from feelings of omgus. Need a cooler head about him before I eventually make a case. Oh no, wait, Iso made a case on him. Nevermind. Dragonheart? It's been done. Myself? Seems rather stupid, and I don't think I could've come uo with any arguments you guys haven't allready made. Push for Seppel because he's playing like a surferboy, not contributing and generally acting neutral? No, this has been brought up by others, and discussed. Plus I actually believe Seppel is what he says he is. DV, AI, AE or Void? Not really enough posts to make anything out of, I'm afraid. Inifus, Ayileh or Arnnaria? If I actually thought they were scummy I could have made a push, I'll grant you that. kpaca? Let's find scum, not lynch neutrals who seems harmless for now. WheatGrinder? He's acting strangely, isn't he? Only problem is that he's posting in fricking latin, which is superawesome and very exciting to follow. If he's scum and gambiting with it then he won't be caught by me, as I really really want to see how that develops. Iso, Guardman and tordeck then. Noooo I don't want to make a case on someone I think is town. How about yourself, you ask? Well that would just be pure omgus and with no reasoning at all, so that makes no sense. Did I cover all? I'm not sure. Did I end up making some kind of town/scum-list? Apparently.
I'm sorry if that's a pain to read. I was pretty frustrated when I started ranting there, but making the list actually had a small terapeutic effect. Thank you, and goooooood night.
PS: No-one has explained to me what "thanking posts" means. Please someone bother a line to soothe confused little old me.
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
I think you will find that when one person drops out, for whatever reason, the probability that they are scum becomes much greater. I've already stated that when wallwars goes on and on, I feel good about stopping because the other person is probably town. I've not stopped before and won the war against another not-stopper, they were town in the end. If the post war stops too soon, like I think ours did, it's a bad sign.
That plus all the scummy stuff you've done. That never stopped being a thing.
Sure, if I target a Self-Watcher with my ability, they will tell us who killed them. The rest of the time, why would someone know who did the killing? All you get told is that you are dead. I'm making a note though: If a game mechanic emerges which lets dead people know who killed them and/or how they died, then you officially had inside information and are scum.
Honestly, it was somewhat careless. I assumed the town win condition was public knowledge because I don't think I've been in a game where it wasn't public knowledge before. Normally the first post has the town win condition. (Which is why it's inane to ask someone to post their win condition, and yet everyone does it constantly anyway.) The fact that I wasn't mod-killed is simply the mod refusing to confirm that I knew the win condition. If he had modkilled me, then it makes me confirmed town and anyone who immediately agreed with me confirmed town. That's more damaging to the game state than letting me live in this situation. My bad though, I should check the OP before posting in the future.
In order:
-I target a player once per night. They gain the power to become a Torch on death. This is permanent, but all Torch powers are removed if I die. Anyone who has become a Torch will get one additional Day of talking after their death. (But no vote or abilities, as they are still dead and only leaving behind a false image of their life or w/e.)
-The 2 for 1 is related to what Seppel said. He claimed that if Asian Invasion was killed before being "found" by Seppel's night action, that Seppel would immediately be removed from the game. If we lynched Asian Invasion (who is likely to be Neutral as well), we would effectively be killing two Neutrals with one lynch. (Assuming Seppel is telling the truth.) And if Seppel lied about that, then we lynch him next for being lying scum.
-I automatically assume Specialty games are high powered, especially when the game description talks about transformations and power upgrades throughout the game for some players. Have you ever played a Specialty that wasn't high power?
I see you throwing threats at me mod, but I don't care. I'm going to call people out when they play badly. I already apologized and then got infracted for calling Arcadic stupid. If you have any other problems, stuff it.
*cracks knuckles* Now for some analysis of this bad wagon on me. First things first though, tordeck gets mad town points for not killing me off when he had the chance. I was either at L-1 or L-2 and it would have been super easy for him to just lie and get me killed. Instead he explained my meta truthfully and did what was best for the town. @tordeck: If you ever need the favor returned this game and want my support, just let me know.
#1 Guardman: I don't think Guardman is scum, I think he's just rude and not paying enough attention.
#2 Arnnaria: Arn is being a sheep and voted me without posting a reason. He's seen me play and just got out of a game with me as scum. He knows better. So the question is, is he being a sheep because he's confused, or is he being a sheep because he's scum. Time will tell. I also really don't like the way he is buddying Seppel and/or Asian Invasion. They might be Neutrals instead of scum, but it's still off. IGMEOY Edit while posting: As I continue to read other people, Arnnaria keeps looking worse. I really don't like the timing of his jumping on my wagon, the way he's trying so hard to be useful with the translation thing, the way he is buddying non-town players, or the lack of good reasoning behind his actions. Upgrade to a FoS
#3 Cyouni: He voted me for imploding. What he doesn't know, is that I always implode privately in the scum chat when I'm scum instead of in the main chat. I'll call that a null tell. He's earning town points now for asking me the right questions and thinking logically. He appears to be scum hunting. Goes in the town pile for now.
#4 Wheat_Grinder: This confounds me. He just got done being scumbuddies with me and literally got to see my calm calculating manner as scum. On the other hand, his posting feels townie. I don't have a good read here yet.
#5 Megiddo: I've thought Megiddo was town, and he may very well be voting me purely to try and save himself regardless of alignment. I know it's not great behavior, but it happens. He voted me because I'm ok with killing "non-scum" players. I don't like that he's identifying with the scum. They are "non-town" players, first and foremost. (And that assumes they are telling the truth.) So again, he's protecting the Neutrals and voting me for attacking them. If Seppel/AI flip Scum, all of these people defending them start looking really REALLY bad. Megiddo also made up some strawmen arguments for why his vote needed to stay on me regardless of what defense I brought up. Woohoo for tunneling.
#6 Zajnet: This my friends, is the definition of a scum bandwagon vote. Zajnet has three total posts in this game. One of them says he has been busy and hasn't read anything yet. The next one says "kill it with fire" as he votes me, and the third one is correcting a typo. The timing is also perfect as he puts me into L-2 range. 0 content, yet he's comfortable putting me at L-2 without any explanation. If you want to find scum, start by looking right here.
#7 Infinis: He says he's not sure if I'm scum and he needs to re-read my posts, because he thinks my defense has a chance of being valid... Then he votes me anyway in the same post. In his breakdown, I'm only leaning scum. His next and last post is him sounding like he might have inside information. (Addressed above) I want a better explanation for this vote from Infinis with his grand total of FOUR posts.
#8 kpaca: It's a Neutral voting for a wagon that isn't themselves. What else did you expect? He's been insulting me since the game started and saw an excuse to try and get me lynched. Seems more like a personal vendetta; I think kpaca doesn't like me.
Does anyone remember who hopped off my wagon really fast after tordeck explained that I was town? I need to analyze those people as well.
I have no excuse to get you lynched, I want you lynched because your lynch will either remove a scum or remove a detraction from the town Modus Operundi and will also hopefully teach you a lesson about being a self-righteous loon in the future.
I am making no attempt at hiding it sir, so do not misrepresent it. I am fully supporting EVERYONE vote you as a policy lynch.
*sip*
Precisely.
And because he's tied himself to Megiddo so strongly in his defense, and Megiddo was my first scum read, I am inclined to believe that they are scumbuddies.
So...why aren't you voting for him?
See the above quote segment of Dragon's.
So you're planning on killing me toNight?
What do you think of Arcadic tying himself to Gricky?
"Meta and reaction derf lol"
I asked you to explain how my reaction to DH's claim made me scum. You did not.
Don't make me ask again.
And?
Why not?
I would like to keep reminding you of Void and Homestuck Mafia.
And?
It is being strawmanned because Megiddo is saying it's about one thing when it's about something else. That's exactly how it's being strawmanned. Quit pretending to be dense.
I found Megiddo's response laughable and classic scum behavior of deflect+vote low-hanging fruit a la Dragonheart with no actual analysis attached to his vote - simply a "massclaim and talking about Neutrals". Firstly, D_V was talking about the massclaim - not Dragonheart (unless I'm mistaken). Secondly, we were already discussing the Neutrals - and then he votes the completely easy target of Dragonheart, whose wagon is gaining momentum. In short, Megiddo's vote on to Dragonheart was opportunistic, weak, and deflection from his own wagon, which was gaining momentum. Just because you don't understand my explosive laugh in response to Megiddo's jump to DH doesn't mean it should be dismissed.
Let's play a game.
I want you to show me all of Megiddo's town points.
Show me everything that has you so convinced that Megiddo is town.
Please.
And?
It's certainly not the only point I've made on Megiddo. You have refused to acknowledge this. Why? And once again about the votemongering: And?
And it does look like you are trying to do just that. Why do you feel the need to reference an argument you have made as scum if you are trying to appear townie? You and I have both spoken privately about my gut reads and how I am relying more on them lately because they appear to be more correct than my scumtell reads. I'm not providing little reasoning - I have substantiated my case sufficiently on Megiddo and I feel that is sufficient grounds for lynching him. Apparently at least 4 other people did, as well. Why aren't you attacking them? Why are you focusing your attacks on me when I have, in fact, likely provided more reasoning than anyone else as to why I believe Megiddo is scum?
Talk to me about this if you can point me to why, SUFFICIENTLY, you think Megiddo is town.
That is the basis of your argument. "Your read is wrong. Also you're using gut. So you're scum." That is your case. You haven't provided any reasoning as to why my read is supposedly wrong - all you've said is that it is. Hypocrisy is not a becoming trait.
No, you don't. "Iso uses gut. Gut is scummy. Your read is wrong." This is EXACTLY the same argument you used against me in Homestuck WHERE YOU WERE SCUM.
"Just because I was found at the crime scene immediately after the murder occurred holding the knife that killed the man doesn't mean I killed him!"
For those of you who weren't present during the game that we keep referencing:
Void replaced in. On his first post, I said, "I think Void is scum." When asked why, my response was to the effect of, "Gut." I subconsciously drew associations with the town/scum list that Void had created with his first post and it made perfect sense to me that Void was scum. Gricky was Void's scumbuddy in that game. He tried his damndest to get me lynched for basing my case on Void on that initial gut read. The only reason Void wasn't lynched that Day was because he claimed a PR (and even then I knew he was lying, as my own role made that an impossibility). My point here is that Gricky is not only rehashing the same argument that he did as scum in another game, but he is claiming that his points are "valid" when they obviously were not a solid foundation on which to build an argument - as I was town in Homestuck Mafia, and I am town now. The other issue here is that now that I have substantiated my Megiddo read beyond "gut", Gricky is still harping on the fact that my initial reason was my gut reaction to Megiddo's post. For those interested, I can find quotes from Homestuck Mafia to illustrate my point.
Why do you think Megiddo is town?
Or maybe you could create an actual case based on behavioral and motive analysis. Except you would have to fabricate an interpretation of my mindset in my posts because I am nothing but town. As for the Megiddo vs. Void thing in comparison to Homestuck, Megiddo was almost certainly going to be lynched before Dragonheart shouted out, "HEY, LOOK AT ME!". Speaking of: Megiddo, you were in that game. Why aren't you commenting on this?
So it's okay for you to base your read on gut and not me? Why? Because you were scum in that game and you think gut is a scum tool? And you are STILL defending your argument from when you were BLATANTLY WRONG! Here, have another comparison. "I said you were scum [as scum] in one game because you posted 50 times a day and even though you were town, my argument is totally valid! And it still is, because you're posting 50 times a day here!" That is not a valid argument! You cannot say that your argument holds ground when you have been completely wrong with it!
/sarcasm
That being said, I have illustrated my case against Megiddo, and all I can do is refer people to it and call for more votes on him. How do you get people lynched? With psychic powers?
I always skim people I think are town/people I'm going to figure out later. I read more into people I'm not sure about and people I think are scum. I find it amusing that you're trying to obfuscate your own scum meta in this game in an effort to get me mislynched here.
No. You haven't. Especially when you have seen it work firsthand. And you still need to address why you believe Megiddo is town. Also, "because I think you're scum" isn't sufficient, as you didn't think I was scum until I was attacking Megiddo, when you started defending him.
What more do I need to say about it? Proph hasn't been posting much and never addressed my case. As it stands, he is still an incredibly good lynch candidate. Why don't you look at my case on him? Oh right, because you're pretending to tunnel me.
* I'm calling you scum because you are referencing an argument you used as scu-god why am I repeating this. ****ing scroll up
* I'm not tying you to Megiddo - you're doing that just fine on your own.
* And now you're lying again. I kill Power Roles first as scum. Always. I discussed this in theory. Optimal kill order: PRs, veterans, dissenters, and then supporters.
* I'm voting for you now. I only have one vote. DIAF.
* lol no
Looks to me like you haven't looked at recent posts. Here's a tip: I'm not interested in lynching DH anymore currently. If he hadn't been so far down on my suspect list, I might have considered it when his wagon was at its prime.
Which means you haven't been reading my posts.
Lynch plz@@@
Clearly you do not understand the concept of "optimal play". As dead scum, it would be within my best interest not to say anything. Why? Because there would be no WIFOM to generate as people would know my alignment in the context of this hypothetical. Furthermore, again, you are providing a disconnect in your thoughts - you cannot rationally assume that A. I am scum and B. that I will die toNight unless our Vig is a piss-poor shooter. Meaning this shouldn't even be an issue for you. Except you know that I'm town. That is the only state of mind this rationale can be coming from that makes any inkling of sense, and I KNOW you're not a bad town player.
-Why Seppel?
-Why not Audinho, your other #1 scumspect?
What? How does THAT make any sense? I believe Dragon to be town at this juncture, and you would know that if you had focused on READING my posts instead of MISREPRESENTING them.
You're reaching at this point.
My vote would still be on Megiddo if I felt his wagon was going to regain the momentum it had, but as it is, too many people are focused on Dragonheart. That being said, I am attempting to bring a fresh perspective to the table in your lynch with hopes that we can avoid a potential mislynch and take out scum on Day 1 - which, without me pushing, I see no one else going for you or Prophylaxis, and I don't expect my reads to be carried out past my death because most of the players in this game don't have enough respect for my analysis to do that. What I'm doing, Gricky, is attempting to lynch you. As I enjoy stating, I would be voting you multiple times or my other scumspects in addition to you (if not multiple times) if I had multiple votes - the fact that you keep pointing out that I have but one vote is indication to me that, yes, I have one vote. Your point?
I've OMGUSed once in my entire Mafia career and that was to shut Artifice up in Seasons. (Spoilers: I was town. So was he.) I have expressed a plethora of reasons, most notably your flawed reasoning (which you demonstrated quite profoundly in Homestuck Mafia), as to why you are scum. Would you like me to go back and explain why your posts I said were bad were bad? I can do that, too. My suspicion was hardly random, as you didn't attack me until AFTER I called you scum - again, IIRC. And no, I think tordeck could be scum because A. he's buddying up with you (though I suspect he's better at being scum than that, so I'm iffy about it) and B. his terribly weak (and incorrect) meta case on me. Last time meta was attempted on me, Artifice AND AsianInvasion pushed on me in Avatar Mafia. They thought I was scum for weak (and incorrect) meta reasons, as well, and take a look, if you will - I was town.
1. Do you understand what WIFOM is?
2. Why don't you roll over and die so we can see whether or not I'm right?
3. I never said my role was useful - I said it would be an effective combination for Dragonheart to target me with his ability in utilization with my role.
I suggest you learn reading analysis, then. Because you're doing it wrong.
Actually, I said "almost" because there has been one single time that I remember it done, and that was by Shalako in Flame Warriors. (Additionally, the entire scum team sans one person was also misrepresenting my argument in that game.)
Best play according to whom? Why are you trying not to step on other people's toes? Why do you need the town's approval to vote for Audinho?
And your reasoning is?
I AM NOT BACKING DOWN FROM THE MEGIDDO WAGON. I WOULD STILL LOVE TO LYNCH MEGIDDO TODAY. STOP MISREPPING ME.
And what, praytell, makes you think the scum might have Daytalk? Also, I think you mean *modkill.
Your stance on Dragonheart is not assuaging my suspicion of you in the slightest.
So I know: Are any of my posts in violation of this, in your opinion?
Explain? Also, why haven't you addressed my earlier points to you yet?
Mooore meta. Weren't you saying that you didn't put much stock into it?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Such was the case here.
"You all know NOTHING!" The girl screamed, brandishing her fiery blade at various others. "You claim to think this, and think that, but it's all WRONG! You just need to SHUT UP and let me find who's out to kill us!"
It couldn't be helped. The commander sighed as she pulled out her staff and tome, uttering assorted profanities as the inky blackness snaked its way into the room before drawing the offender into its grasp, leaving no trace save her steel blade.
"Now, I asked you to keep these matters civil. I advise you all to not take that request lightly."
If there were another way, she'd have done it. But too much damage had already occurred...hopefully it would prevent further ruin.
DragonHeart91 has been modkilled for, among other things, flaming other players, unsportsmanlike conduct, and suspicion of post manipulation. He was Shana, Town Flame Haze.
The Vote Count has been Reset. With 22 Alive, it's still 12 to Lynch.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
In other news: Vote Meggido
Quick point: Iso doesn't seem concerned that he's Vote Mongering more than he's actually posting arguments against Meg. He posts "And?" after a lot of my Vote Mongering points. The "And" of the Vote Mongering should have been obvious: He's saying very little about why you should vote Meg, but pressuring the vote anyway. He's only got one reason and he's pretty tight-lipped about it. So the Vote Mongering is bad because it's unjustified, he hasn't done anything or provided any proof on Meg to justify asking people several times for their vote. If he had just claimed cop and identified one of his investigation targets as scum, then Vote Mongering is cool. If he finds one thing wrong about one players posts, Vote Mongering is not cool, because it's unjustifiable. Iso literally made up his own mind on a player after one post and expects the town to vote with him without any other expansion of the subject. Wait, sorry, he told Aud to "look closely", but that's the extent of the analysis he's done. Everything else is Iso begging for more votes.
Another thing, a good chunk of my defense of Meg is because I don't like the way the case has progressed. The two neutrals on the wagon from near the get-go, the way Iso "caught" Meg, or rather just had bad feelings and the way Aud so easily stepped onto the wagon after being weakly persuaded by someone he claims he doesn't trust. The speed of the wagon, it seemed like it gained 7-9 votes before I could blink. They are all unsettling things about the wagon. My suspicion started with Aud, then when I began looking closer and closer, I couldn't find very much of anything on the wagon that I liked or gave me a positive sign. Iso had a gut read on Meg, I had a gut read on the wagon. Difference is that Iso is still stuck on his same old reasons and I've gone on to explore what my suspicions are actually rooted in.
Like I said, better point-by-point responses tomorrow. As for the Meta call from Homestuck, go fetch it, hell, I'll fetch it, specifically my analysis regarding Gut, because that's what's important. It's literally the only thing that game and this game have in common. My gut analysis is completely valid, but this game and Homestuck, my scum meta so far, are totally different.
Night all. Hope you like walls-o-text, cause Iso just asked for it.
Not sure if interested, but I have more then a passing disdain for Walls-o-Text and any other products made by Ton-o-Words Industries or any of it's subsidiaries. So yeah.
Non intelligere.
DH habebat. horrendum ludere. Miror quod contristari flipped oppidum.
Sed saltem. nos non. dissipabit a Lynch. in eum.
Ego sum captum inter. suffragatio. Megiddo et Iso.
Ego male sentire. circa. Iso. Etiam, Megiddo. flips. oppidum. quando. videtur Mafia.
Iso videtur a magis interesting persona ad suffragium. Enim nunc, saltem.
Vote: Iso
Clearly you haven't read my post. I would advise you not to post until you do because this response is clearly indicative of the fact that you have not. You have, in fact, skimmed it, which you believe to be scummy.
Happily. I'll look it up after this post.
Or you could admit you're wrong and move on.
Sorry dude, but it's easier for me to make a single big post than to break it up into multiples.
Looks like you need to refine that Iso-reading technique of yours.
So you're having difficulty deciding between Megiddo or myself? Why? Break down my posts and tell me what you don't like about them. Why choose me over Megiddo? Do you think one's alignment is indicative of the other's? If so, how? Do you agree with Gricky's points against me? If so, which ones? If not, why is voting for me a more "interesting" choice to pursue?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Bah!
Then, here comes this:
Then, almost 150 posts later:
I bolded something else Gricky has done in this following quote, both in Homestuck and this game:
KCC died that Night. And then I counterclaimed Void on Day 2 and shot Gricky on Night 2. They were both scum.
I don't expect many people to read the whole thing, but here's what I've been referencing.
Basically, Gricky's play (and even his argument against me) in Magical Girls is literally almost exactly what he did in Homestuck, down to a T.
He was scum in that game. He is scum in this game.
I snipped a few quotes and added text (like in Megiddo's quoted post) to make things more relevant if you don't choose to view the full quote and to cut out stuff that wasn't relevant to the incident I am referencing. Anyone is welcome to see if I'm lying about this by checking for themselves.
As I said, I don't expect everyone to read the whole thing, but there is no "condensed" version. Even some of the phrasing is almost exactly the same as Homestuck Gricky. If you refuse to read the quote wall, then at least skim it because I just spent like 40+ minutes collecting and snipping quotes for your convenience and you can at least read a few of the quotes when he starts his terrible argument to see the parallels here.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
At the risk of derailing the thread with yet more theory, lynching a known SK is much better for the town than lynching a known mafioso because it removes an entire kill from each Night phase. However, I am always down to lynch a loran.
The fact that Meggido asked that question at all (re: thanking posts) means good things for him.
Keeping Seppel alive through toNight is good for me, and by extension, the rest of the town.
I'll avenge you and stuff. This post has pretty reasonable wagon analysis.
Vote Zajnet
Guardman and tordeck seem very townish.
Ahlyis and Wessel are reasonably trustworthy.
Arnnaria and Audiho seem a bit lost but innocent enough.
Cyouni I will probably never learn how to read.
kpaca and Seppel are claimed neutrals.
Infinis and Zajnet are shady.
Anyone not on this list is not posting enough.
Also, I copied that list of names from the pre-modkill vote count, so anyone whose name is not listed (DV and Void off the top of my head) hasn't voted or been voted recently.
I didn't want to forget to suggest that an unlimited town vig with no better targets should shoot at kpaca toNight to test his claim.
Also, though this is merely for sake of completion, I think Meggido is likely town (as stated in my first post of this series) for being worried about thanking posts as way for scum to communicate.
OK, I'm done for tonight. I swear.
My 40% win rate there would probably say differently...
Expand more on why Iso's a more "interesting" vote.
Read it despite quote walls being annoying, didn't see too many parallels, will look closer later.
Note to self: investigate ways to evoke emotions in posters.
What prevents you from, say, making a case on someone that's had a case made on them without just simply barning someone else's case?