Seems anecdotal to me. Show me numbers, compared to when I died in the game, etc.
Again, already answered.
It will be harder for those not in the game to catch it. But the numbers dont lie when you know what to look for. Your town game has more posts than your scum games. Even why dieing early, the ratio is still prevalent.
I was too obvtown in Cyber and died early because of it. So far at least 3 people (including the mod confirmed one) have called me town this game. See my dilemma? (though spelling it out now gives the scum some good wine to keep me alive. I give it 50/50 odds I survive past n2)
Is your "solid" case on Iso seriously just pure post frequency?
It started with post count, moved to gut read by his responses. Now with Ahlyis' PBPA its all but confirmed in my mind.
Or Iso was like "Hey mod, what's the town wincon?"
And Charm was like "Eliminate threats yada yada"
And Iso was like "Hey DH, here's the town wincon, now post it"
And DH was like "I'm scum I mean town here's the wincon BUT I'M NOT GOING TO GO INTO DETAIL ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE FROM MY ROLE PM JUST IN CASE I SCREW UP WHAT A TOWN ROLE PM LOOKS LIKE"
And Ahlyis was like "oh that makes perfect sense, unvote"
If this is what happened and the scum don't have daychat, then both Iso and DH should be modkilled, unless I missed where Iso posted that information into the thread. If they don't have daychat, then Iso must have PMed Dragon about it, which would be a rules violation and punishable by daykill.
It's far far more likely though that DH is town.
Also, why on earth would Gricky be humoring the theory of someone he suspects is a MAFIA RECRUITER?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Your first reaction is to come up with a convoluted reason as to why he is lying.
It's not convoluted at all and you're completely ignoring the part where I said that Dragon wasn't a good lynch for toDay, if at all.
Quote from Tordeck »
1) that would requie me being a killing role, which I am not
2) you'll be lynched long before that
Oh okay. Oh hey, when did you capitalize your name?
Quote from Tordeck »
I dotn see where that happened. Point it out.
He has like 3 posts. Do a search for GrickyTimmick in Arcadic's posts and look for yourself.
Quote from Tordeck »
Answered already.
If you cant figue out what scummy about Proph's post then you need more help than I thought.
I thought Proph was scum because of his associations with Megiddo in the beginning.
I'm asking YOU why YOU think Proph is scummy. I don't need someone to convince me why Proph is scum - I already think he is. You did not answer sufficiently. All you said was "his post :na:". That doesn't answer my question. So answer it.
Quote from Tordeck »
Again, already answered.
It will be harder for those not in the game to catch it. But the numbers dont lie when you know what to look for. Your town game has more posts than your scum games. Even why dieing early, the ratio is still prevalent.
I SAID SHOW ME NUMBERS.
Quote from Tordeck »
Good comeback scum.
no u
Quote from Tordeck »
PS dont address things you want actual answers to in the middle of a ridiculously big wall o' text
P.S. Don't skip over my posts if you think I'm scum. Build a case or back off.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So, Void, why did you comment that Seppel was correct in calling out Dragonheart as scum halfway through your post only to later note the modkill (and subsequent revelation that DH was town)?
Because I was reading the game in that order. I was merely posting my thoughts as they came to from each post. Just because I believe one thing at a given point in time doesn’t mean that my opinion cannot change later on. Gricky is caught scum at this point for his obvious inside knowledge that Dragon was town prior to the ModKill.
Additionally, you started off saying that you were leaning town on GrickyTimmick, so I'd like to know how he became vote-worthy after one comment from Iso that doesn't actually prove anything.
@meta proof - its based of number of posts and and how many games ive been /in, /spectate or /mod recently with Iso. His posting style here is more in line with his scum games than his town ones. (claims RL but who knows and only mentioned RL after I voted him for it)
Please explain how this proves that your meta claim is true.
@ DH/GT - huh? I called DH town from the very beginning and I have not yet seen anything that points to GT being scum, but the only game of his I know is ongoing so I have no meta to work with
(mind I only use meta i have personally seen, if I am not in or spectate on a game I dont use it for meta as I am too lazy to read all those old games)
Please explain why you believe that GT did not slip inside information.
When and why did you start liking Megiddo as scum? I have not seen you express this yet - on the contrary, your initial read of him was town.
That initial read was me baiting others for reactions. Didn’t work as well as I wanted it too, but it did help me get some town reads. I started to dislike Meg when he FoS’d Audinho over a vote when his RVS vote was still in affect.
@Void: I always try to announce the reasoning behind my vote and/or unvote in the thread. Charm had just said that he was ready to do a votecount (or people were clamoring for one), so I wanted to make sure the vote was off you by the time it happened. Nothing more, nothing less.
Very well. Have you announced your RVS unvote in another game?
The only thing this proves is that you cannot be trusted this game and myself. I thought you were right with your read when in fact you were wrong. This should hold credence that you are indeed an anti-town faction this game.
It's not convoluted at all and you're completely ignoring the part where I said that Dragon wasn't a good lynch for toDay, if at all.
It was convoluted. Upon seeing the wincon directly quoted (when knowing the PM quoting, including the wincon is forbidden) your response was "oh the scum asked the mod for it since it wasnt in the OP"
Oh okay. Oh hey, when did you capitalize your name?
Couple of days ago I asked for it to be changed
He has like 3 posts. Do a search for GrickyTimmick in Arcadic's posts and look for yourself.
Hey now, thats my defense. You cant steal it.
I'm asking YOU why YOU think Proph is scummy. I don't need someone to convince me why Proph is scum - I already think he is. You did not answer sufficiently. All you said was "his post :na:". That doesn't answer my question. So answer it.
How much further do you I have to explain it too you. THE ENTIRE ****ING POST IS SCUMMY!!!! You are being quite dense today.
I SAID SHOW ME NUMBERS.
It wont do anything unless you understand the concept behind it. This is a strictly take my word for it situation
P.S. Don't skip over my posts if you think I'm scum. Build a case or back off.
Didnt skip anything. But with how long winded they were its hard for things to not get lost. How about you try spoilering each person you are talking to and make its easier for us to find?
@ ISO Tordeck does not understand how to debate logically. He doesn't understand what a contention or such is. He also believes that one liners are proper in all circumstances. It isn't indicative though of an alignment. Infraction for Trolling. TCM
Just figured I'd mention that while I started my reread. Expect more posts tomorrow. DV
@ ISO Tordeck does not understand how to debate logically. He doesn't understand what a contention or such is. He also believes that one liners are proper in all circumstances. It isn't indicative though of an alignment.
Just figured I'd mention that while I started my reread. Expect more posts tomorrow. DV
Might be the wrong word i used but the point is still the same.
"Come at me bro" is not needed. I am learning to read through your play style, but you really need to learn a few things about debate. I have tried to explain them to you, but you refuse to listen.
Simple things like evidence to defend your statements are one thing that you could learn to use more effectively.
Your one line arguments don't really have any merit especially when they just amount to "You are wrong". That doesn't really mean a whole lot. Do that in any professional field and you will just get laughed at.
Simply put if you can't back up your statements then don't make them at all.
I have tried to explain them to you, but you refuse to listen.
Last time I saw you attempt to argue anything you had to result to name calling and mud slinging. You are not one to tell anyone about how to make an effective argument.
Even if I used the wrong word, it is obvious that I was pointing to the fact that you made a false correlation. Neither my alignment nor GT's points to the others.
Even if I used the wrong word, it is obvious that I was pointing to the fact that you made a false correlation. Neither my alignment nor GT's points to the others.
Last time I saw you attempt to argue anything you had to result to name calling and mud slinging. You are not one to tell anyone about how to make an effective argument.
Even if I used the wrong word, it is obvious that I was pointing to the fact that you made a false correlation. Neither my alignment nor GT's points to the others.
I wasn't attempting to insult you at all. I am simply speaking the truth. This is how you argue. Its crude, and it doesn't conform to how most people debate. You might have legitimate points but the fact that you can't/or won't back them up with anything makes your claims well, not really important and without much merit.
If you take offense to that I am sorry, but until you start to actually back things up with fact and don't go "Lala I can't hear you" I don't see why I or anyone else would listen to you.
The math behind the post count argument for those unwilling to take my word for it.
Grabbing just the four most recent games where we can confirm Iso's alignment
Iso - town
Family Mafia died day 2 - 292 posts (players dead around that time - 160, 57 and 48)
Gum died night 2 - 145 posts (players dead around that time - 148 and 64)
Iso - scum
Smalltown died d1 - 27 posts (players to die n1 - 26 and 48)
STVM died d1 - 33 posts (players to die n1 - 16 and 12)
Magical Girls currently alive on d1 - 39 (dead player 80, next highest poster 55)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Games in which Iso has been town he has been near the top of the posters list and often quite higher than the next closest player. Games in which Iso has been scum his post level is closer to a normal players.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Void - not opinion, fact (least from what my role pm says.)
DV - The evidence is out there already. I point to it and respond. What more is needed really? And I never ignore anyone directly. If I miss an question its cuz I didnt see it. Point me the right way and I'll respond (as proved by Iso). Oh and not to mention last time we met my method of argument worked just fine to getting you lynched. If it was unimportant and without merit that wouldnt have happened now would it?
The math behind the post count argument for those unwilling to take my word for it.
Grabbing just the four most recent games where we can confirm Iso's alignment
Iso - town
Family Mafia died day 2 - 292 posts (players dead around that time - 160, 57 and 48)
Gum died night 2 - 145 posts (players dead around that time - 148 and 64)
Iso - scum
Smalltown died d1 - 27 posts (players to die n1 - 26 and 48)
STVM died d1 - 33 posts (players to die n1 - 16 and 12)
Magical Girls currently alive on d1 - 39 (dead player 80, next highest poster 55)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Games in which Iso has been town he has been near the top of the posters list and often quite higher than the next closest player. Games in which Iso has been scum his post level is closer to a normal players.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Void - not opinion, fact (least from what my role pm says.)
DV - The evidence is out there already. I point to it and respond. What more is needed really? And I never ignore anyone directly. If I miss an question its cuz I didnt see it. Point me the right way and I'll respond (as proved by Iso). Oh and not to mention last time we met my method of argument worked just fine to getting you lynched. If it was unimportant and without merit that wouldnt have happened now would it?
Thats really all I was looking for what you just posted. Thanks
DV
Because I was reading the game in that order. I was merely posting my thoughts as they came to from each post. Just because I believe one thing at a given point in time doesn’t mean that my opinion cannot change later on. Gricky is caught scum at this point for his obvious inside knowledge that Dragon was town prior to the ModKill.
I'm not going to bother responding to most of Iso's post. I've made my case and everyone else can judge for themselves who is doing the misrepping between us.
There are a couple of points though that aren't directly related to the case which I feel are deserving of a response...
Do you understand how to play Mafia, dude? Serious question.
I thought that's what I was doing. Am I breaking some rule? If so, someone please correct me before I end up getting myself modkilled. I can understand that you may think I'm playing "badly", but is anything I'm doing "illegal"?
If not, then I'm going to just have to go with, if I'm playing THAT badly, then I should be TOLD what I'm doing wrong and then LYNCHED if I refuse to learn. On the other hand, if this is nothing more than a personal attack because you don't like how hard I came after you, well, too bad. Get over it!
So you think lying and Cop results are the only thing strong enough to base a lynch on?
No. I think those are some of the few things strong enough to SOLELY base a lynch on.
Most cases require MULTIPLE points presented against the lynchee, but Cop results or being outright caught in a lie are two of the things worthy of a lynch all by themselves.
And yes, there can always be extenuating circumstances, like not knowing the trustworthiness of the Cop or counter results indicating the person is Town. But in general, those two are worthy of lynching someone over even if they are the only points against the person.
I would be extremely surprised if anyone were exhibiting that scumtell at this point. It is most definitely a late game based scumtell. It's not a common scumtell, but every time I've seen it committed, the person was Scum.
And believe me, if I'm still alive and I do see someone commit it, I'll certainly call them on it.
ARE YOU LISTENING TO YOURSELF? Motive is everything.
I'm sorry, but I have to vehemently disagree with that.
Motive is certainly a factor to be considered, but it is NOT "everything".
As a simplified example, suppose I catch you in a lie in two separate games, one where I'm scum, the next where I am Town. In the first case, I am arguing that we should lynch you because you lied and lying is scummy. I do this even though I know you aren't Scum since I am. In the next game, I'm Town and making the same argument...
Is my argument now invalid because the last time I used it I turned out to be Scum? Or am I somehow Scummy because I'm making the same argument I made when I was Scum in a previous game?
Or is it possible the argument is valid in and of itself, regardless of my alignment or why I'm making the argument?
Iso - town
Family Mafia died day 2 - 292 posts (players dead around that time - 160, 57 and 48)
Gum died night 2 - 145 posts (players dead around that time - 148 and 64)
Iso - scum
Smalltown died d1 - 27 posts (players to die n1 - 26 and 48) STVM died d1 - 33 posts (players to die n1 - 16 and 12)
If the "Smalltown" you are referring to is Animaniacs, that game is still in progress and shouldn't be discussed.
As for the bolded portion, Iso WANTED to be lynched in Voyager so he could set up a cult. He was purposefully playing really bad so that the hammer would fall on him and he could recruit a new Queen. It says nothing about postcounts when a person is actively trying to get lynched.
If you're gonna do a statistical analysis of how many posts Iso had when he was lynched, do it for ALL of his games. Don't just cherry pick the games that prove your point.
Gricky is thinking about the game in his off-time and he's excited to post. These traits come out in his sentences. I believe those are strong town qualities.
Because I was so damn tired last nite I didnt see that the DH kill reset the VC
Vote Iso
I was just about to ask about that. I totally missed the kill too and was about to ask where the votes on DH went to. OP doesn't have DH listed anywhere on the playerlist, so I'm guessing Shana is DH? Whoever killed DH gets auto-town status from me.
The only thing this proves is that you cannot be trusted this game and myself. I thought you were right with your read when in fact you were wrong. This should hold credence that you are indeed an anti-town faction this game.
This does not address the matter that you (1) Said I cannot be trusted; then (2) trusted me; (3) listed Dragon, Tordeck, Audinho, Meggido, Infinis as scum; then (4) proceeded to vote GrickyTimmick, all in the same post.
The evidence is there in post #561, and clearly marked by me in post #571.
Why does at least one of the lurkers have to be scum?
Scum lurk, because lurkers don't get suspicion and are seldom (never) lynched early. I'll bet my reputation that one of the very unfrequent posters are scum. In fact, look at this:
Quote from Deaths_Vampire »
@ ISO Tordeck does not understand how to debate logically. He doesn't understand what a contention or such is. He also believes that one liners are proper in all circumstances. It isn't indicative though of an alignment.
Infraction for Trolling. TCM
Just figured I'd mention that while I started my reread. Expect more posts tomorrow. DV
"Come at me bro" is not needed. I am learning to read through your play style, but you really need to learn a few things about debate. I have tried to explain them to you, but you refuse to listen.
Simple things like evidence to defend your statements are one thing that you could learn to use more effectively.
Your one line arguments don't really have any merit especially when they just amount to "You are wrong". That doesn't really mean a whole lot. Do that in any professional field and you will just get laughed at.
Simply put if you can't back up your statements then don't make them at all.
I wasn't attempting to insult you at all. I am simply speaking the truth. This is how you argue. Its crude, and it doesn't conform to how most people debate. You might have legitimate points but the fact that you can't/or won't back them up with anything makes your claims well, not really important and without much merit.
If you take offense to that I am sorry, but until you start to actually back things up with fact and don't go "Lala I can't hear you" I don't see why I or anyone else would listen to you.
The only thing D_V has done so far this game is suggesting a massclaim. Then lurklurkylurklurk, and he comes back, promising more posts tomorrow, as well as arguing/trolling about debate tecnique and other peoples style of posting.
What's the point of theese posts? As far as I see they serve no purpose at all. I'd vote, but he did promise more posts tomorrow, so he'll get his shot at fullfilling that promise.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Damnation studios!
P9 - VT - Win
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
If the "Smalltown" you are referring to is Animaniacs, that game is still in progress and shouldn't be discussed.
As for the bolded portion, Iso WANTED to be lynched in Voyager so he could set up a cult. He was purposefully playing really bad so that the hammer would fall on him and he could recruit a new Queen. It says nothing about postcounts when a person is actively trying to get lynched.
If you're gonna do a statistical analysis of how many posts Iso had when he was lynched, do it for ALL of his games. Don't just cherry pick the games that prove your point.
So is Gum and The Fam. But I am not talking about the game itself but Iso's posting and confirmable alignment as he is dead in the game.
He didnt start playing that way until after Seppel called him out. He claim it was his plan all along but I know the truth of the matter from being the mod of said game.
I just grabbed the last four to make it easier to post. But Ive gone over every game that I have been in with him or spectated/modded since I returned and the pattern fits.
It was convoluted. Upon seeing the wincon directly quoted (when knowing the PM quoting, including the wincon is forbidden) your response was "oh the scum asked the mod for it since it wasnt in the OP"
No, I said "DH isn't cleared BECAUSE this is a possibility. But I don't think it's worth looking at right now."
Quote from Tordeck »
Hey now, thats my defense. You cant steal it.
Did you find it?
Quote from Tordeck »
How much further do you I have to explain it too you. THE ENTIRE ****ING POST IS SCUMMY!!!! You are being quite dense today.
I would like you to explain it further by BREAKING IT DOWN :jam::jam::jam:
Quote from Tordeck »
It wont do anything unless you understand the concept behind it. This is a strictly take my word for it situation
Oh, okay.
Quote from Tordeck »
Didnt skip anything. But with how long winded they were its hard for things to not get lost. How about you try spoilering each person you are talking to and make its easier for us to find?
But then that would make it easier for people to ignore my posts. I simply cannot accept this.
The math behind the post count argument for those unwilling to take my word for it.
Grabbing just the four most recent games where we can confirm Iso's alignment
Iso - town
Family Mafia died day 2 - 292 posts (players dead around that time - 160, 57 and 48)
Gum died night 2 - 145 posts (players dead around that time - 148 and 64)
Iso - scum
Smalltown died d1 - 27 posts (players to die n1 - 26 and 48)
STVM died d1 - 33 posts (players to die n1 - 16 and 12)
Magical Girls currently alive on d1 - 39 (dead player 80, next highest poster 55)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Games in which Iso has been town he has been near the top of the posters list and often quite higher than the next closest player. Games in which Iso has been scum his post level is closer to a normal players.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Iso rubs hands together and sports a wicked grin.
Now we're getting somewhere. Let's include the parts you conveniently left out:
First, The Family Mafia. Not a completed game, but I'd like to note that because of my faked post restriction in that game, my postcount was artifically inflated.
Next: Gum? I can only assume you mean Gotham Underground. But that's not my most recent town game - Avatar is. (Gotham is still on-going, so we're not going to use that.) So let's look at Avatar: I had 253 posts, the second highest poster under poggydude, who had 255. (I replaced in, if that means anything to you.) I was lynched at the endgame.
My other most recent town game, which is also completed, is not The Family Mafia, but Homestuck Mafia.
Let's look at Homestuck.
315 posts. Second most amount of posts was 123. I endgamed in that game, as well. Fair enough.
So, let's look at some scum games.
My two most recently completed games as mafia were Triskelion and Cyberpunk. (I'm not using ST:V because you know as well as I do that it was optimal play for my faction to get myself lynched on Day 1. :D)
Let's look at Triskelion.
I was the highest poster - 276 posts - compared to the second highest poster, with 189 posts. I endgamed that game, as well. So, that's a point against your meta case.
Now, Cyberpunk - here's where I throw a major cog in your theory.
In Cyberpunk, I was lynched on Day 1. I had the THIRD highest amount of posts - the first two highest posters were Cyan, with 268 posts, second was DH, with 156, and my third place postcount was 112. 112 posts on Day 1. Third highest poster in the game. 4th highest poster was Ged, with 70 posts.
I'm not going to bother responding to most of Iso's post. I've made my case and everyone else can judge for themselves who is doing the misrepping between us.
Hey Gricky, what was it that you said about this?
Quote from Ahlyis »
I thought that's what I was doing. Am I breaking some rule? If so, someone please correct me before I end up getting myself modkilled. I can understand that you may think I'm playing "badly", but is anything I'm doing "illegal"?
Nope, no rules being broken - just poor play.
Quote from Ahlyis »
If not, then I'm going to just have to go with, if I'm playing THAT badly, then I should be TOLD what I'm doing wrong and then LYNCHED if I refuse to learn. On the other hand, if this is nothing more than a personal attack because you don't like how hard I came after you, well, too bad. Get over it!
I'm not the only one pointing out what you're doing in err - Seppel is at least one other person who has said something about it. Mostly that you're arguing theory in about 99% of your posts. The other 1% is misrepping me. However, that doesn't quite constitute a lynch. It has nothing to do with the fact that you're attacking me - it's the fact that your play has been completely lackluster so far. Instead of acknowledging my case, you've chosen to handwave it, which you, personally said was not a town reaction to a case when I asked about how Megiddo responded to the case on him.
Or were you too busy misrepping me to notice you contradicted yourself?
Quote from Ahlyis »
No. I think those are some of the few things strong enough to SOLELY base a lynch on.
Most cases require MULTIPLE points presented against the lynchee, but Cop results or being outright caught in a lie are two of the things worthy of a lynch all by themselves.
And yes, there can always be extenuating circumstances, like not knowing the trustworthiness of the Cop or counter results indicating the person is Town. But in general, those two are worthy of lynching someone over even if they are the only points against the person.
So why do you refuse to acknowledge that there are multiple points against Megiddo and/or Gricky?
Quote from Ahlyis »
I would be extremely surprised if anyone were exhibiting that scumtell at this point. It is most definitely a late game based scumtell. It's not a common scumtell, but every time I've seen it committed, the person was Scum.
And believe me, if I'm still alive and I do see someone commit it, I'll certainly call them on it.
I'm sorry, but I have to vehemently disagree with that.
Motive is certainly a factor to be considered, but it is NOT "everything".
As a simplified example, suppose I catch you in a lie in two separate games, one where I'm scum, the next where I am Town. In the first case, I am arguing that we should lynch you because you lied and lying is scummy. I do this even though I know you aren't Scum since I am. In the next game, I'm Town and making the same argument...
Is my argument now invalid because the last time I used it I turned out to be Scum? Or am I somehow Scummy because I'm making the same argument I made when I was Scum in a previous game?
Or is it possible the argument is valid in and of itself, regardless of my alignment or why I'm making the argument?
Obviously the motive is the key. The argument is situational, as is a lot of what you see in Mafia. There would have to be more information for me to break it down correctly, however!
If I'm lying, I have a reason. WHY I'm doing that is what determines whether or not I'm scum. People refer to lying as a scumtell - but it's not! It's WHY you're lying that's key!
As for the bolded portion, Iso WANTED to be lynched in Voyager so he could set up a cult. He was purposefully playing really bad so that the hammer would fall on him and he could recruit a new Queen. It says nothing about postcounts when a person is actively trying to get lynched.
If you're gonna do a statistical analysis of how many posts Iso had when he was lynched, do it for ALL of his games. Don't just cherry pick the games that prove your point.
I appreciate it, but I've got it, dude. :3 Thanks anyway.
Gricky is thinking about the game in his off-time and he's excited to post. These traits come out in his sentences. I believe those are strong town qualities.
I, for one, find myself more excited to post as scum. Like when I'm thinking about Mafia at work.
Quote from Seppel »
I was just about to ask about that. I totally missed the kill too and was about to ask where the votes on DH went to. OP doesn't have DH listed anywhere on the playerlist, so I'm guessing Shana is DH? Whoever killed DH gets auto-town status from me.
FoS Seppel for calling the mod town when he flipped Neutral in the OP!
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So is Gum and The Fam. But I am not talking about the game itself but Iso's posting and confirmable alignment as he is dead in the game.
He didnt start playing that way until after Seppel called him out. He claim it was his plan all along but I know the truth of the matter from being the mod of said game.
You are revealing private information concerning an ongoing game. It doesn't matter whether Iso is dead or not, his motivations are now shared for players still alive in that game to find here in this game.
You are revealing private information concerning an ongoing game. It doesn't matter whether Iso is dead or not, his motivations are now shared for players still alive in that game to find here in this game.
Not at all. None of the info I posted is private or has baring on the games in question.
Almost all of the cases that I am reading, are just that meta.
Meta, is an awful argument. Try and use meta on me and you won't know what to do.
Meta, is perhaps the weakest argument that one can use to push a case. Why? Well, if we look at post counts for example, some people take a while to get going, others have role restrictions or roles that make the post differently. Sometimes day one people see a case that they feel must be pushed, maybe they don't see anything at all so they are more quiet.
Simple put arguing meta is poor at best. There are so many variables that are not being taken into account and this ignoring, real life variables.
FOS everyone using meta claims.
The end.
But in all reality.
GrickyTimmick
Most of his attacks on Iso are factitious at best. There are a lot of mis reps being used to push his "case" against Iso. I don't like how the case reads.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
What makes something that hasn't been covered something that can't be questioned?
Explain why.
Why does at least one of the lurkers have to be scum?
Pretty much everything here.
Explain?
Is your "solid" case on Iso seriously just pure post frequency?
Explain the reason you're voting Megiddo.
I need to think on this statement. It feels really off to me.
Show where.
Cyouni definitively town because he saw something important too
@Cyouni I state my reason in the vote post.
I've read 80% of the walls and now with Iso v/la... I personally don't like the low post count = scum theory. However, tordek makes a valid meta argument against Iso. I didnt read the games. I read the rebuttal but it doesn't hold up to me. So I can't vote based on this alone.
I can chalk up the Meg case/no case to kpaca's aptly put "Iso will never admit he's wrong", but I'm not dismissing it completely.
The read of each post when going point by point ends with Iso in the negative, nothing slam dunk, but persuasive overall.
Unvote. This pot/kettle attack and the above points vote: Iso I'll unvote if we get close to his lynch and he hasn't responded.
Town:
Me, Guardman, Ahlys
Leaning Town:
Gricky, tordek, AsianI, wheatG
Neutral:
kpaca, Seppel
Leaning Scum:
Meggido (the early game stuff is not valid in my opinion, his play since has been gut read bad) , D_V (I don't like the Gricky vote or the blanket meta argument attack)
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
I'm not the only one pointing out what you're doing in err - Seppel is at least one other person who has said something about it. Mostly that you're arguing theory in about 99% of your posts. The other 1% is misrepping me. However, that doesn't quite constitute a lynch. It has nothing to do with the fact that you're attacking me - it's the fact that your play has been completely lackluster so far. Instead of acknowledging my case, you've chosen to handwave it, which you, personally said was not a town reaction to a case when I asked about how Megiddo responded to the case on him.
Whatever.
I personally think I've done FAR more work this game than the majority of the players. Hell, I've done two complete PbPA's already. What have the majority of players contributed? (Feel free to ignore this as a rhetorical question.)
So why do you refuse to acknowledge that there are multiple points against Megiddo and/or Gricky?
I don't refuse to acknowledge that NOW you have multiple points. I refuse to accept your retcon of your "explosive laugh" to give yourself those multiple points prior to post #499. For the great majority of the game, up until post 499, you only had a single point that you presented against Meg.
As for now, yes, you have multiple points. So what? They're still weak and not even close to worthy of a lynch. Just my opinion obv.
Obviously the motive is the key. The argument is situational, as is a lot of what you see in Mafia. There would have to be more information for me to break it down correctly, however!
If I'm lying, I have a reason. WHY I'm doing that is what determines whether or not I'm scum. People refer to lying as a scumtell - but it's not! It's WHY you're lying that's key!
Lying is considered scummy because 99% of the time the reasons ARE scummy. Yes, there are rare occasions where lying as Town may be appropriate. But those are NOT the norm.
Kinda lurky because I finally got my laptop back yesterday (and have become instantly addicted to Diablo III). Once the initial shock wears off, I'll be more involved.
I noticed that Zajnet may or may not be replaced, which is awkward (and somewhat convenient for him).
Of the current existing wagons, I like Void's the best; everyone else I read as town.
Unvote
Vote Void
Because reactions to the meta case can be used. Mine on Iso may have been flawed but it worked to show his scum nature in this game via his reactions to my case.
Because reactions to the meta case can be used. Mine on Iso may have been flawed but it worked to show his scum nature in this game via his reactions to my case.
How did his reaction to your case prove he is scum when he went all mythbusters on your meta case?
Non videre. si habebat a ratione. non ad, autem.
Ego sum taedio GT/Iso pugna.
@Iso: ~ostendere me ubi GT vocavit DH Mafia. Ego cogitari GT dicitur DH oppidum~
Your first reaction is to come up with a convoluted reason as to why he is lying.
1) that would requie me being a killing role, which I am not
2) you'll be lynched long before that
I dotn see where that happened. Point it out.
Answered already.
If you cant figue out what scummy about Proph's post then you need more help than I thought.
Again, already answered.
It will be harder for those not in the game to catch it. But the numbers dont lie when you know what to look for. Your town game has more posts than your scum games. Even why dieing early, the ratio is still prevalent.
Good comeback scum.
PS dont address things you want actual answers to in the middle of a ridiculously big wall o' text
I was too obvtown in Cyber and died early because of it. So far at least 3 people (including the mod confirmed one) have called me town this game. See my dilemma? (though spelling it out now gives the scum some good wine to keep me alive. I give it 50/50 odds I survive past n2)
It started with post count, moved to gut read by his responses. Now with Ahlyis' PBPA its all but confirmed in my mind.
The Family
Vote Iso
The Family
Also, why on earth would Gricky be humoring the theory of someone he suspects is a MAFIA RECRUITER?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It's not convoluted at all and you're completely ignoring the part where I said that Dragon wasn't a good lynch for toDay, if at all.
Oh okay. Oh hey, when did you capitalize your name?
He has like 3 posts. Do a search for GrickyTimmick in Arcadic's posts and look for yourself.
I thought Proph was scum because of his associations with Megiddo in the beginning.
I'm asking YOU why YOU think Proph is scummy. I don't need someone to convince me why Proph is scum - I already think he is. You did not answer sufficiently. All you said was "his post :na:". That doesn't answer my question. So answer it.
I SAID SHOW ME NUMBERS.
no u
P.S. Don't skip over my posts if you think I'm scum. Build a case or back off.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Unvote, Vote: Iso
Because I was reading the game in that order. I was merely posting my thoughts as they came to from each post. Just because I believe one thing at a given point in time doesn’t mean that my opinion cannot change later on. Gricky is caught scum at this point for his obvious inside knowledge that Dragon was town prior to the ModKill.
How does Iso’s comment not prove anything?
So that the town knows where my reads are at? :duh:
Please explain how this proves that your meta claim is true.
Please explain why you believe that GT did not slip inside information.
There was no error on my part. I decided to try something different. Why does that make me scum?
It’s a gut feeling. How am I suppose to expand on that?
GT slipped showing us that Dragon is town and Gricky is scum.
Same as last answer.
Your response has a good tone to it and didn’t try to paint the post as something scummy.
That initial read was me baiting others for reactions. Didn’t work as well as I wanted it too, but it did help me get some town reads. I started to dislike Meg when he FoS’d Audinho over a vote when his RVS vote was still in affect.
Why are you asking questions that you already know the answer too? The answer is also in this post.
Very well. Have you announced your RVS unvote in another game?
The only thing this proves is that you cannot be trusted this game and myself. I thought you were right with your read when in fact you were wrong. This should hold credence that you are indeed an anti-town faction this game.
Seppel needs to die from this one post alone. Unable to read someone… Then I am the King England.
I would have to agree with this.
Kpaca:
Does some of Seppel’s play here seem similar to Basic #55 to you?
Couple of days ago I asked for it to be changed
Hey now, thats my defense. You cant steal it.
How much further do you I have to explain it too you. THE ENTIRE ****ING POST IS SCUMMY!!!! You are being quite dense today.
It wont do anything unless you understand the concept behind it. This is a strictly take my word for it situation
Didnt skip anything. But with how long winded they were its hard for things to not get lost. How about you try spoilering each person you are talking to and make its easier for us to find?
The Family
As explained unless you know what you are looking for you wont see it. This is strictly a take my word for it situation
The Family
Okay.
Reminder to self: If Gricky is scum then so is tordeck.
I'll wait for others to weigh in before I take your word for it.
The Family
Infraction for Trolling. TCM
Just figured I'd mention that while I started my reread. Expect more posts tomorrow. DV
Isn't a dichotomy when some claims one person to be town and the other scum?
Troll me again please.
Might be the wrong word i used but the point is still the same.
The Family
"Come at me bro" is not needed. I am learning to read through your play style, but you really need to learn a few things about debate. I have tried to explain them to you, but you refuse to listen.
Simple things like evidence to defend your statements are one thing that you could learn to use more effectively.
Your one line arguments don't really have any merit especially when they just amount to "You are wrong". That doesn't really mean a whole lot. Do that in any professional field and you will just get laughed at.
Simply put if you can't back up your statements then don't make them at all.
Compelling arguement.
Last time I saw you attempt to argue anything you had to result to name calling and mud slinging. You are not one to tell anyone about how to make an effective argument.
Even if I used the wrong word, it is obvious that I was pointing to the fact that you made a false correlation. Neither my alignment nor GT's points to the others.
The Family
Matter of opinion there my good sir.
I wasn't attempting to insult you at all. I am simply speaking the truth. This is how you argue. Its crude, and it doesn't conform to how most people debate. You might have legitimate points but the fact that you can't/or won't back them up with anything makes your claims well, not really important and without much merit.
If you take offense to that I am sorry, but until you start to actually back things up with fact and don't go "Lala I can't hear you" I don't see why I or anyone else would listen to you.
Grabbing just the four most recent games where we can confirm Iso's alignment
Iso - town
Family Mafia died day 2 - 292 posts (players dead around that time - 160, 57 and 48)
Gum died night 2 - 145 posts (players dead around that time - 148 and 64)
Iso - scum
Smalltown died d1 - 27 posts (players to die n1 - 26 and 48)
STVM died d1 - 33 posts (players to die n1 - 16 and 12)
Magical Girls currently alive on d1 - 39 (dead player 80, next highest poster 55)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Games in which Iso has been town he has been near the top of the posters list and often quite higher than the next closest player. Games in which Iso has been scum his post level is closer to a normal players.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Void - not opinion, fact (least from what my role pm says.)
DV - The evidence is out there already. I point to it and respond. What more is needed really? And I never ignore anyone directly. If I miss an question its cuz I didnt see it. Point me the right way and I'll respond (as proved by Iso). Oh and not to mention last time we met my method of argument worked just fine to getting you lynched. If it was unimportant and without merit that wouldnt have happened now would it?
The Family
Thats really all I was looking for what you just posted. Thanks
DV
Void says these two lines...
Then immediately treats tordeck as town.
Vote Void.
There are a couple of points though that aren't directly related to the case which I feel are deserving of a response...
I thought that's what I was doing. Am I breaking some rule? If so, someone please correct me before I end up getting myself modkilled. I can understand that you may think I'm playing "badly", but is anything I'm doing "illegal"?
If not, then I'm going to just have to go with, if I'm playing THAT badly, then I should be TOLD what I'm doing wrong and then LYNCHED if I refuse to learn. On the other hand, if this is nothing more than a personal attack because you don't like how hard I came after you, well, too bad. Get over it!
No. I think those are some of the few things strong enough to SOLELY base a lynch on.
Most cases require MULTIPLE points presented against the lynchee, but Cop results or being outright caught in a lie are two of the things worthy of a lynch all by themselves.
And yes, there can always be extenuating circumstances, like not knowing the trustworthiness of the Cop or counter results indicating the person is Town. But in general, those two are worthy of lynching someone over even if they are the only points against the person.
I would be extremely surprised if anyone were exhibiting that scumtell at this point. It is most definitely a late game based scumtell. It's not a common scumtell, but every time I've seen it committed, the person was Scum.
And believe me, if I'm still alive and I do see someone commit it, I'll certainly call them on it.
I'm sorry, but I have to vehemently disagree with that.
Motive is certainly a factor to be considered, but it is NOT "everything".
As a simplified example, suppose I catch you in a lie in two separate games, one where I'm scum, the next where I am Town. In the first case, I am arguing that we should lynch you because you lied and lying is scummy. I do this even though I know you aren't Scum since I am. In the next game, I'm Town and making the same argument...
Is my argument now invalid because the last time I used it I turned out to be Scum? Or am I somehow Scummy because I'm making the same argument I made when I was Scum in a previous game?
Or is it possible the argument is valid in and of itself, regardless of my alignment or why I'm making the argument?
Completed Town games I can talk about:
Avatar - My RVS vote was against a player who wasn't even in the game yet (Iso).
Cirque - http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=8070763&postcount=42
Pulp - Didn't make an RVS vote; too new to the game.
Triskelion / Ghost Story - Replaced in, never got to make an RVS vote.
This should be a response to Void, not Wheat Grinder. Don't know how the lines got crossed.
If the "Smalltown" you are referring to is Animaniacs, that game is still in progress and shouldn't be discussed.
As for the bolded portion, Iso WANTED to be lynched in Voyager so he could set up a cult. He was purposefully playing really bad so that the hammer would fall on him and he could recruit a new Queen. It says nothing about postcounts when a person is actively trying to get lynched.
If you're gonna do a statistical analysis of how many posts Iso had when he was lynched, do it for ALL of his games. Don't just cherry pick the games that prove your point.
Gricky is thinking about the game in his off-time and he's excited to post. These traits come out in his sentences. I believe those are strong town qualities.
I was just about to ask about that. I totally missed the kill too and was about to ask where the votes on DH went to. OP doesn't have DH listed anywhere on the playerlist, so I'm guessing Shana is DH? Whoever killed DH gets auto-town status from me.
Asking the other neutral whether or not I sound like scum is very anti-town. What do you hope to gain from that?
Wow, really? Is that your argument?
Surely with such strong convictions, you've also placed a vote on me in this post, right?
...right?
This does not address the matter that you (1) Said I cannot be trusted; then (2) trusted me; (3) listed Dragon, Tordeck, Audinho, Meggido, Infinis as scum; then (4) proceeded to vote GrickyTimmick, all in the same post.
The evidence is there in post #561, and clearly marked by me in post #571.
Would you like to revise your statement?
Scum lurk, because lurkers don't get suspicion and are seldom (never) lynched early. I'll bet my reputation that one of the very unfrequent posters are scum. In fact, look at this:
The only thing D_V has done so far this game is suggesting a massclaim. Then lurklurkylurklurk, and he comes back, promising more posts tomorrow, as well as arguing/trolling about debate tecnique and other peoples style of posting.
What's the point of theese posts? As far as I see they serve no purpose at all. I'd vote, but he did promise more posts tomorrow, so he'll get his shot at fullfilling that promise.
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
vote Megiddo - reasons are in my previous post.
DH was Shana, yes. But why are you giving the Mod auto-town status just for modkilling DH?
So is Gum and The Fam. But I am not talking about the game itself but Iso's posting and confirmable alignment as he is dead in the game.
He didnt start playing that way until after Seppel called him out. He claim it was his plan all along but I know the truth of the matter from being the mod of said game.
I just grabbed the last four to make it easier to post. But Ive gone over every game that I have been in with him or spectated/modded since I returned and the pattern fits.
The Family
How is this worth pursuing when Gricky made it clear that he wanted to set himself up to play both sides of the fence, despite what DH flipped?
No, I said "DH isn't cleared BECAUSE this is a possibility. But I don't think it's worth looking at right now."
Did you find it?
I would like you to explain it further by BREAKING IT DOWN :jam::jam::jam:
Oh, okay.
But then that would make it easier for people to ignore my posts. I simply cannot accept this.
* Iso rubs hands together and sports a wicked grin.
Now we're getting somewhere. Let's include the parts you conveniently left out:
First, The Family Mafia. Not a completed game, but I'd like to note that because of my faked post restriction in that game, my postcount was artifically inflated.
Next: Gum? I can only assume you mean Gotham Underground. But that's not my most recent town game - Avatar is. (Gotham is still on-going, so we're not going to use that.) So let's look at Avatar: I had 253 posts, the second highest poster under poggydude, who had 255. (I replaced in, if that means anything to you.) I was lynched at the endgame.
My other most recent town game, which is also completed, is not The Family Mafia, but Homestuck Mafia.
Let's look at Homestuck.
315 posts. Second most amount of posts was 123. I endgamed in that game, as well. Fair enough.
So, let's look at some scum games.
My two most recently completed games as mafia were Triskelion and Cyberpunk. (I'm not using ST:V because you know as well as I do that it was optimal play for my faction to get myself lynched on Day 1. :D)
Let's look at Triskelion.
I was the highest poster - 276 posts - compared to the second highest poster, with 189 posts. I endgamed that game, as well. So, that's a point against your meta case.
Now, Cyberpunk - here's where I throw a major cog in your theory.
In Cyberpunk, I was lynched on Day 1. I had the THIRD highest amount of posts - the first two highest posters were Cyan, with 268 posts, second was DH, with 156, and my third place postcount was 112. 112 posts on Day 1. Third highest poster in the game. 4th highest poster was Ged, with 70 posts.
Hey Gricky, what was it that you said about this?
Nope, no rules being broken - just poor play.
I'm not the only one pointing out what you're doing in err - Seppel is at least one other person who has said something about it. Mostly that you're arguing theory in about 99% of your posts. The other 1% is misrepping me. However, that doesn't quite constitute a lynch. It has nothing to do with the fact that you're attacking me - it's the fact that your play has been completely lackluster so far. Instead of acknowledging my case, you've chosen to handwave it, which you, personally said was not a town reaction to a case when I asked about how Megiddo responded to the case on him.
Or were you too busy misrepping me to notice you contradicted yourself?
So why do you refuse to acknowledge that there are multiple points against Megiddo and/or Gricky?
Looking forward to seeing how that works out.
Obviously the motive is the key. The argument is situational, as is a lot of what you see in Mafia. There would have to be more information for me to break it down correctly, however!
If I'm lying, I have a reason. WHY I'm doing that is what determines whether or not I'm scum. People refer to lying as a scumtell - but it's not! It's WHY you're lying that's key!
I appreciate it, but I've got it, dude. :3 Thanks anyway.
I, for one, find myself more excited to post as scum. Like when I'm thinking about Mafia at work.
FoS Seppel for calling the mod town when he flipped Neutral in the OP!
Damn. Beat me to it.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'll be V/LA for a week starting tomorrow. Going to Colorado!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You are revealing private information concerning an ongoing game. It doesn't matter whether Iso is dead or not, his motivations are now shared for players still alive in that game to find here in this game.
Not at all. None of the info I posted is private or has baring on the games in question.
The Family
Almost all of the cases that I am reading, are just that meta.
Meta, is an awful argument. Try and use meta on me and you won't know what to do.
Meta, is perhaps the weakest argument that one can use to push a case. Why? Well, if we look at post counts for example, some people take a while to get going, others have role restrictions or roles that make the post differently. Sometimes day one people see a case that they feel must be pushed, maybe they don't see anything at all so they are more quiet.
Simple put arguing meta is poor at best. There are so many variables that are not being taken into account and this ignoring, real life variables.
FOS everyone using meta claims.
The end.
But in all reality.
GrickyTimmick
Most of his attacks on Iso are factitious at best. There are a lot of mis reps being used to push his "case" against Iso. I don't like how the case reads.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Why not?
Vote GrickyTimmick
Cyouni definitively town because he saw something important too
@Cyouni I state my reason in the vote post.
I've read 80% of the walls and now with Iso v/la... I personally don't like the low post count = scum theory. However, tordek makes a valid meta argument against Iso. I didnt read the games. I read the rebuttal but it doesn't hold up to me. So I can't vote based on this alone.
I can chalk up the Meg case/no case to kpaca's aptly put "Iso will never admit he's wrong", but I'm not dismissing it completely.
The read of each post when going point by point ends with Iso in the negative, nothing slam dunk, but persuasive overall.
Finally something caught my eye that I really didn't like and combines with the above. look at the second to last point
Unvote. This pot/kettle attack and the above points vote: Iso I'll unvote if we get close to his lynch and he hasn't responded.
Town:
Me, Guardman, Ahlys
Leaning Town:
Gricky, tordek, AsianI, wheatG
Neutral:
kpaca, Seppel
Leaning Scum:
Meggido (the early game stuff is not valid in my opinion, his play since has been gut read bad) , D_V (I don't like the Gricky vote or the blanket meta argument attack)
Scum:
Iso
More wall reading later.
12-11? I'm losing track
1) What do you think of Void?
2) Why aren't you voting Void?
Whatever.
I personally think I've done FAR more work this game than the majority of the players. Hell, I've done two complete PbPA's already. What have the majority of players contributed? (Feel free to ignore this as a rhetorical question.)
I don't refuse to acknowledge that NOW you have multiple points. I refuse to accept your retcon of your "explosive laugh" to give yourself those multiple points prior to post #499. For the great majority of the game, up until post 499, you only had a single point that you presented against Meg.
As for now, yes, you have multiple points. So what? They're still weak and not even close to worthy of a lynch. Just my opinion obv.
Lying is considered scummy because 99% of the time the reasons ARE scummy. Yes, there are rare occasions where lying as Town may be appropriate. But those are NOT the norm.
1. Too quote a book which will not be named: "But I don't think of [him]."
2. I don't have a strong opinion on him and feel that currently there are better people to pursue.
1) Void hasn't pinged my radar either good or bad. He's neutral to me right now.
2) Because Iso is a MUCH better lynch.
I noticed that Zajnet may or may not be replaced, which is awkward (and somewhat convenient for him).
Of the current existing wagons, I like Void's the best; everyone else I read as town.
Unvote
Vote Void
Because reactions to the meta case can be used. Mine on Iso may have been flawed but it worked to show his scum nature in this game via his reactions to my case.
The Family
How did his reaction to your case prove he is scum when he went all mythbusters on your meta case?
His initial reaction, not the one after I posted numbers.
The Family