I feel like everyone is completely missing what a good scum team would be attempting to do right now... there's two extremely solid avenues I would pursue as scum - and neither would try and bid on the begger's guild.
Vote Iso because of "Suggest a plan, but not commit to it to see if it sticks." reads as looking for approval without trying to stand out. You also read like your brother playing clueless, and when you play or are clueless, bad things happen.
Huh. I put something similar in my notes. Didn't point it out because I wanted to see if Iso would do other things that caught my interest, but since it's already out in the open...
I can get behind the idea of this post, but the execution of it seems short sighted.
Yes, we could all bid 2 coins, if we have them, and then cross our fingers that a player gets there, but this assumes the scum don't just Dark Whatever up and 2 coin vs 1 coin us to death. These Cop shots seems more critical and approachable in the late game when we can pool our resources more reliably to make them unblockable through more "redistributed" wealth, if I understand the setup.
You know, I was going to argue that you were the one being short-sighted, but when I got to thinking about it, I think you're probably right. Not going to give my thought process for it, but I tend to agree that not coordinating or pooling until later in the game is the right play.
Either hang on to your own coins, or consider then an "anti-vote" to be used in Night phase on a player you trust, which you can later reveal and which will make associations and choices clearer as the game goes on.
Something I didn't notice before: You have to PM the mod to use the Courier ability during the day. Players will be delivered their coins at the start of the night. Does open up some options later on, I think.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
And also you're wrong. Emo's points are so far the best posts I've read, even if they are convoluted in their Vizzini-like ideas. This is why this game is elegant in design. It makes for an ugly power struggle to manipulate an open setup.
I can get behind the idea of this post, but the execution of it seems short sighted.
Yes, we could all bid 2 coins, if we have them, and then cross our fingers that a player gets there, but this assumes the scum don't just Dark Whatever up and 2 coin vs 1 coin us to death. These Cop shots seems more critical and approachable in the late game when we can pool our resources more reliably to make them unblockable through more "redistributed" wealth, if I understand the setup.
Same goes for the Vig shot. It won't be "unlocked" unless we pool our resources, and even then we have to pool them in secret.
I suggest we actually don't coordinate who we do or don't collectively give coins to for the first Day phase, and that we see where we are at Day 2. Any coordination done through in-thread conversation is just asking for a scum to talk their way into more resources.
Either hang on to your own coins, or consider then an "anti-vote" to be used in Night phase on a player you trust, which you can later reveal and which will make associations and choices clearer as the game goes on.
Logically, the scum must start with few coins. Spending them in the first Night on the Dark Cult to protect themselves from scans seems inefficient. After people start dying, the scum will obtain more coins and our chance to target them with the investigation will improve. That is the point at which we should worry about them using coins to cheaply block the cop scan.
It is imminently important to get information as quickly as possible and find the scum before they acquire too much currency and too much power. Remember they will be free to redistribute coins amongst themselves using the Courier service and purchase the vigilante kill as soon as they have 5 coins between them. To wit, this also implies that the scum team's total bankroll is 4 coins or less at the start of the game to prevent an early game double kill.
Revealing too much information or coordinating too much amongst ourselves can be harmful, but bidding on the cop scan in order to increase our chance of keeping it out of the mafia control is very important.
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"Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool." - Isiah 1:18
Logically, the scum must start with few coins. Spending them in the first Night on the Dark Cult to protect themselves from scans seems inefficient. After people start dying, the scum will obtain more coins and our chance to target them with the investigation will improve. That is the point at which we should worry about them using coins to cheaply block the cop scan.
It is imminently important to get information as quickly as possible and find the scum before they acquire too much currency and too much power. Remember they will be free to redistribute coins amongst themselves using the Courier service and purchase the vigilante kill as soon as they have 5 coins between them. To wit, this also implies that the scum team's total bankroll is 4 coins or less at the start of the game to prevent an early game double kill.
Revealing too much information or coordinating too much amongst ourselves can be harmful, but bidding on the cop scan in order to increase our chance of keeping it out of the mafia control is very important.
I'd say 2 coins for one coin is pretty efficient... anything else I could say is not a good idea to spew into the thread.
Have you considered what this does for purposes of amassing coins later? I mean, like I said, the Cop shot will still be there when the player base is smaller. Why burn resources using them when you have a 3 in 11 chance of hitting (assuming you aren't blocked) when you could instead use them when you have, say, a 3 in 9 (Day 2) and likely more coin to lock things up with?
It just seems unreliably all-in to me, and expensive, when there are other ways to invest coin (not getting killed, shipping them to an obvtown player to buy the Vig shot, etc.). BTW, token, coin, whatever. I like the word coin best.
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There are three cop shots. There is a lynch and a mafia kill every day + the vig shot. That makes the game length approximately 4 Days barring a No Lynch. If we intend to use all three cop shots, which is advisable, we only have one Night where we don't use it. The mafia get more money as the game goes on, which could easily swing the financial balance in their favor and allow them to more easily purchase the protection.
It is appalling that you are arguing for a course of action which results in the town losing cop scans. Are you scum?
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"Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool." - Isiah 1:18
There are three cop shots. There is a lynch and a mafia kill every day + the vig shot. That makes the game length approximately 4 Days barring a No Lynch. If we intend to use all three cop shots, which is advisable, we only have one Night where we don't use it. The mafia get more money as the game goes on, which could easily swing the financial balance in their favor and allow them to more easily purchase the protection.
It is appalling that you are arguing for a course of action which results in the town losing cop scans. Are you scum?
I'm not arguing for losing anything. You said it yourself: 4 Days, 3 shots. Why waste coin Day 1 that could buy and unpreventable Cop Shot or maybe even two when approaching Lylo?
You've never heard the term "Keep it in your pants" before?
I'm arguing for using them when they are worth the money, and not wasting town resources on blind, inefficient shots. More information and less targets will make them more worthwhile later.
But by all means, lead us oh wise one.
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My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Vote Iso because of "Suggest a plan, but not commit to it to see if it sticks." reads as looking for approval without trying to stand out. You also read like your brother playing clueless, and when you play or are clueless, bad things happen.
Remember last time you tried to meta me?
Anyway, I'm still 100% for the plan where everyone gives me their coins.
I feel like everyone is completely missing what a good scum team would be attempting to do right now... there's two extremely solid avenues I would pursue as scum - and neither would try and bid on the begger's guild.
Unless you're talking about the "steal the Vig shot and the Cop investigations before the town can" thing, I'm not sure what you're hinting at.
Vote Albus
Hey Arti, wanna guess why?
@Dagger: You have me on two different lines in the votecount.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I feel like everyone is completely missing what a good scum team would be attempting to do right now... there's two extremely solid avenues I would pursue as scum - and neither would try and bid on the begger's guild.
Logically, the scum must start with few coins. Spending them in the first Night on the Dark Cult to protect themselves from scans seems inefficient. After people start dying, the scum will obtain more coins and our chance to target them with the investigation will improve. That is the point at which we should worry about them using coins to cheaply block the cop scan.
If scum got the dark cult (which I see no reason for anyone to do) and the person who has the cop investigation gets no results I would believe the person scanned was scum (as long as the person who got the cop shot I believed to be town).
*starts to panic at all the WIFOM thoughts swirling*
I'd say 2 coins for one coin is pretty efficient... anything else I could say is not a good idea to spew into the thread.
Have you considered what this does for purposes of amassing coins later? I mean, like I said, the Cop shot will still be there when the player base is smaller. Why burn resources using them when you have a 3 in 11 chance of hitting (assuming you aren't blocked) when you could instead use them when you have, say, a 3 in 9 (Day 2) and likely more coin to lock things up with?
It just seems unreliably all-in to me, and expensive, when there are other ways to invest coin (not getting killed, shipping them to an obvtown player to buy the Vig shot, etc.). BTW, token, coin, whatever. I like the word coin best.
Why are you promoting a vig shot as better then a cop investigation?
I am not a fan of giving some person a vig shot who shots into the town and helps scum out further but getting rid of one more player. I would rather confirm town and strengthen town numbers.
vote: Arnn
You are being very quiet so far this game. Usually I find you to be more chatty, even during pregame chatter.
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I am female, hear me roar!
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
That's why I plan to wait til the end of the day to decide. I'm sorry if I did not make that clear. You are an experienced player and if I believe you are town, you'd probably get my coin(s) (if I have any at all for that matter).
I will not be rushing any coin decisions I make for I want to make sure I don't do something...well...stupid.
Shark is leaving a bad taste and is in my current number 2 spot for scum suspects.
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I am female, hear me roar!
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Why are you promoting a vig shot as better then a cop investigation?
I'm not. I'd rather we control the Vig shot, though. It will be pretty fail if we let them have access to a Toughguy while we are busy investing in Cop shots that may or may not be directed correctly.
It isn't a matter of better or worse, just a matter of an uglier result.
@Wrath: how many posts per page?
And how come no one answered me about the House Emblems? You guys are gonna make me look, aren't you?
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My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
I'm not. I'd rather we control the Vig shot, though. It will be pretty fail if we let them have access to a Toughguy while we are busy investing in Cop shots that may or may not be directed correctly.
It isn't a matter of better or worse, just a matter of an uglier result.
@Wrath: how many posts per page?
And how come no one answered me about the House Emblems? You guys are gonna make me look, aren't you?
1) How is a cop shot used be directed incorrectly? You think people can't evaulate a game that are here and see whom most have suspicious on?
2) What question did you ask about the house emblems? I'm too busy and exhausted to think or reread what I missed right now.
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I am female, hear me roar!
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I feel like everyone is completely missing what a good scum team would be attempting to do right now... there's two extremely solid avenues I would pursue as scum - and neither would try and bid on the begger's guild.
Emo_Pinata posts this first. I don't think it's a particularly good idea to be saying "The best move for the scum wouldn't be to do X", but he (wisely) doesn't spell out what he thinks the optimal moves would be.
If he comes up with something the scum haven't thought up, he's just given the scum advice. Maybe at a later point such information would be beneficial to the town as a way to disrupt plans already in process, but at this point all he can do is give the scum ideas because they haven't had a night phase to start working on coin exchanges or discussing bidding or whatever. If the scum haven't started their plans, they can't be disrupted.
But fortunately he doesn't actually say what these two solid avenues would be, as that would be extremely foolish. Hooray!
Unless you're talking about the "steal the Vig shot and the Cop investigations before the town can" thing, I'm not sure what you're hinting at.
That comment may as well read "Please tell me what you think would be better moves for the scum". Which, as I've previously established, is a scummy thing to do.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Clarification: By "they haven't had a night phase to start working on coin exchanges or discussing bidding or whatever", I mean they haven't been able to actually act on their plans yet, which is the same as them forming a plan tonight. Until the scum are acting on any plan they might have, they can still change it without much hassle.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
@Art: Are you asking if the discription is the same from the PM to what is on the first page of this game? If so yes.
If your asking if Dagger created something unique from what others discribed in thread...well I didn't discribe my symbol and the discription he used for mine sounds better then the pic I used.
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I am female, hear me roar!
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
That comment may as well read "Please tell me what you think would be better moves for the scum". Which, as I've previously established, is a scummy thing to do.
Yes, let me ask in the thread what the best play for my hypothetical scumteam would be. If I were scum, I wouldn't have drawn the attention to myself by asking. I wanted to know what E_P was thinking because it would give me an idea of what to look for - as it is, my only scumspect is Albus.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Yes, let me ask in the thread what the best play for my hypothetical scumteam would be. If I were scum, I wouldn't have drawn the attention to myself by asking. I wanted to know what E_P was thinking because it would give me an idea of what to look for - as it is, my only scumspect is Albus.
You hear that? It's my WiFoM alarm medieval church bells.
Also, you didn't ask him. You provided a hook that you hoped E_P would bite. By not directly asking him you leave all the blame hanging on him if he does bite, and you get deniability if he doesn't.
If he doesn't take it, oh well, you lost nothing. If he does, you get to see his thoughts on good scum moves, and as a bonus you can say "Fool! Why would you say that?! You just helped the scum! I was never asking you to reveal good plays for the scum!" thereby gaining yourself one townie point and deflecting whatever small amounts of attention you may have attracted.
Thou hast roused my suspicion. Mine vote shall remain firmly affixed to thee.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
You hear that? It's my WiFoM alarm medieval church bells.
Also, you didn't ask him. You provided a hook that you hoped E_P would bite. By not directly asking him you leave all the blame hanging on him if he does bite, and you get deniability if he doesn't.
If he doesn't take it, oh well, you lost nothing. If he does, you get to see his thoughts on good scum moves, and as a bonus you can say "Fool! Why would you say that?! You just helped the scum! I was never asking you to reveal good plays for the scum!" thereby gaining yourself one townie point and deflecting whatever small amounts of attention you may have attracted.
Why would E_P, regardless of his alignment, reveal the information in question? He's not a bad player.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Why the need to claim? Because I can't be much use to the town today or tonight until I get some coins. Like I said, the only power I have right now is my vote.
I've played enough with Iso that he isn't scummy all the time to me. He just plays scummy. I mean, if anyone else had suggested we donate all his coins to him/her, I'd be voting them right away. But it's Iso, so I'm letting it slide for now.
Why would E_P, regardless of his alignment, reveal the information in question? He's not a bad player.
Because not being a bad player doesn't automatically exclude one from making bad plays.
He'd been suggesting plans/plays before you "didn't" ask him about the scum plans. Maybe you thought he'd stay on a roll and give something up? He already revealed that neither of his ideas for optimal scum strategies involved the Beggar's Guild. Maybe you thought that with a gentle coaxing he would reveal more.
It's a pretty low risk move for you either way. Either he says "Nope, probbably not a good idea to say anything" and you don't really lose anything, or he shows his hand and you gain info and townie points by calling him out for it yourself.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
It's a pretty low risk move for you either way. Either he says "Nope, probbably not a good idea to say anything" and you don't really lose anything, or he shows his hand and you gain info and townie points by calling him out for it yourself.
And if E_P is scum, why did you just give him an out from answering the question?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
And if E_P is scum, why did you just give him an out from answering the question?
Well, if he's scum he's going to lie and the town gains nothing and might actually end up in a worse position if he purposfully tries to manipulate the situation.
If he's town, the scum gains info and the town gains nothing. Town loses either way.
But that's beside the point. You've managed to avoid addressing my points by deflecting the focus of the discussion first to E_P and then to me. My vote is looking better all the time.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Why the need to claim? Because I can't be much use to the town today or tonight until I get some coins. Like I said, the only power I have right now is my vote.
I've played enough with Iso that he isn't scummy all the time to me. He just plays scummy. I mean, if anyone else had suggested we donate all his coins to him/her, I'd be voting them right away. But it's Iso, so I'm letting it slide for now.
You ever been a VT in a game before? I'm pretty certain if I look I will find this answer. If so what is the difference between this game and a typical game that you feel the need to call yourself useless?
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I am female, hear me roar!
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
You ever been a VT in a game before? I'm pretty certain if I look I will find this answer. If so what is the difference between this game and a typical game that you feel the need to call yourself useless?
Yeah, I've played Vanilla Town.
But certain things can happen in this game for players to earn coins and for players to use coins. So technically, depending on the game state, other people's actions can affect me and my actions can affect other people just beyond a vote.
For example, if we all agreed to give Iso a coin. I cannot give Iso a coin. Maybe next day he writes a list of people who did not give him a coin. Does that sound vanilla to you?
For example, if we all agreed to give Iso a coin. I cannot give Iso a coin. Maybe next day he writes a list of people who did not give him a coin. Does that sound vanilla to you?
Iso couldn't do that. All coin transfers are anonymous. Iso would only know that he recieved X coins or possibly that he recieved 1 coin each from X people, not who gave them.
That aside, I would like more people to comment on the Iso wagon. Preferably people who aren't involved in it. Outside perspective and all that. Albus and pinkys_brain in particular.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
That aside, I would like more people to comment on the Iso wagon. Preferably people who aren't involved in it. Outside perspective and all that. Albus and pinkys_brain in particular.
Yeah thats something I'll be doing hopefully today.
But that's beside the point. You've managed to avoid addressing my points by deflecting the focus of the discussion first to E_P and then to me. My vote is looking better all the time.
What have I addressed insufficiently? Do point it out for me.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Yes, let me ask in the thread what the best play for my hypothetical scumteam would be. If I were scum, I wouldn't have drawn the attention to myself by asking. I wanted to know what E_P was thinking because it would give me an idea of what to look for - as it is, my only scumspect is Albus.
There's a mild bit of deflection in this post. You try to defend yourself with some WiFoM, admit you wanted to know what E_P was thinking, then at the end you say "Oh, plus check out that Albus guy" but without anything to back it up with.
I'm thinking you just wanted to start a new thread of conversation to syphon attention from you to Albus.
Admittedly it's not a strong enough "deflection" for me to have called you out on it. But as we continue, they pile up. Let's keep going:
You hear that? It's my WiFoM alarm medieval church bells.
Also, you didn't ask him. You provided a hook that you hoped E_P would bite. By not directly asking him you leave all the blame hanging on him if he does bite, and you get deniability if he doesn't.
If he doesn't take it, oh well, you lost nothing. If he does, you get to see his thoughts on good scum moves, and as a bonus you can say "Fool! Why would you say that?! You just helped the scum! I was never asking you to reveal good plays for the scum!" thereby gaining yourself one townie point and deflecting whatever small amounts of attention you may have attracted.
I provide a reason for why you "asked" E_P the question about scum plans.
Why would E_P, regardless of his alignment, reveal the information in question? He's not a bad player.
Instead of directly responding or trying to debunk my reasoning, you simply say "Well why would E_P have said anything anyway, that's a bad move". Forces me to respond to what you want me to respond to (E_P's actions/motivations rather than your own) instead of continuing what I was originally talking about.
As a secondary point: In the first quote you say you wanted to know what E_P was thinking. Why are you saying him revealing it would be a bad move by him in this quote, then? You wanted him to make a bad play by revealing his thoughts?
Because not being a bad player doesn't automatically exclude one from making bad plays.
He'd been suggesting plans/plays before you "didn't" ask him about the scum plans. Maybe you thought he'd stay on a roll and give something up? He already revealed that neither of his ideas for optimal scum strategies involved the Beggar's Guild. Maybe you thought that with a gentle coaxing he would reveal more.
It's a pretty low risk move for you either way. Either he says "Nope, probbably not a good idea to say anything" and you don't really lose anything, or he shows his hand and you gain info and townie points by calling him out for it yourself.
I answer the E_P question, and then repeat my previous theory hoping you would now defend yourself.
And if E_P is scum, why did you just give him an out from answering the question?
You respond by saying "Look what you just did!". Again, not defending yourself, but deflecting the subject of my potential responses from you to me. Putting me on the defensive is one way to get me off of your case.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Iso couldn't do that. All coin transfers are anonymous. Iso would only know that he recieved X coins or possibly that he recieved 1 coin each from X people, not who gave them.
That aside, I would like more people to comment on the Iso wagon. Preferably people who aren't involved in it. Outside perspective and all that. Albus and pinkys_brain in particular.
Wagon is too fast for a weak reason. I'm not biting the wagon of quickness.
Besides Shark's post and kissing up to Iso is still weighing in my mind. Scum tend to buddy up to townies and it makes me ignore Iso till I hear from Shark more.
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I am female, hear me roar!
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
quickness of wagon is not a count against the wagon. it is the early stage of the game, there is no availible evidence other than behavior and the avilible behavioral tells were used in the case, not sure where your hangup is.
Okay, after carefully reading the rules this time...
I think there is a bit of sense to loading a town member with coins. However, we have to make sure that it is the proper town member and we have to do it surreptitiously so the scum don't find out and just NK him/her. And even if the scum do find out that House X is getting coins, that just adds to the Guild of Coins, which would "refund" everyone back the coins they gave and then some. This also has a detrimental effect that the Scum will get one coin richer, but I have a feeling that coins are going to be scarce as the game progresses.
Tl;dr - Iso might have been right about his suggestion, but he was wrong with his approach.
Huh. I put something similar in my notes. Didn't point it out because I wanted to see if Iso would do other things that caught my interest, but since it's already out in the open...
How... Intriguing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vh0WmT7YQ4
You know, I was going to argue that you were the one being short-sighted, but when I got to thinking about it, I think you're probably right. Not going to give my thought process for it, but I tend to agree that not coordinating or pooling until later in the game is the right play.
Something I didn't notice before: You have to PM the mod to use the Courier ability during the day. Players will be delivered their coins at the start of the night. Does open up some options later on, I think.
{Magic: The RPG}
You would rather I start snarling at you?
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Logically, the scum must start with few coins. Spending them in the first Night on the Dark Cult to protect themselves from scans seems inefficient. After people start dying, the scum will obtain more coins and our chance to target them with the investigation will improve. That is the point at which we should worry about them using coins to cheaply block the cop scan.
It is imminently important to get information as quickly as possible and find the scum before they acquire too much currency and too much power. Remember they will be free to redistribute coins amongst themselves using the Courier service and purchase the vigilante kill as soon as they have 5 coins between them. To wit, this also implies that the scum team's total bankroll is 4 coins or less at the start of the game to prevent an early game double kill.
Revealing too much information or coordinating too much amongst ourselves can be harmful, but bidding on the cop scan in order to increase our chance of keeping it out of the mafia control is very important.
Have you considered what this does for purposes of amassing coins later? I mean, like I said, the Cop shot will still be there when the player base is smaller. Why burn resources using them when you have a 3 in 11 chance of hitting (assuming you aren't blocked) when you could instead use them when you have, say, a 3 in 9 (Day 2) and likely more coin to lock things up with?
It just seems unreliably all-in to me, and expensive, when there are other ways to invest coin (not getting killed, shipping them to an obvtown player to buy the Vig shot, etc.). BTW, token, coin, whatever. I like the word coin best.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
I considered roleplaying this up, but verily's and forsooths seemed like too much work...
While I'm thinking about it, did Dagger alter anyone's insignia in a serious way when he reposted them to this thread? I'm too lazy to look....
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
It is appalling that you are arguing for a course of action which results in the town losing cop scans. Are you scum?
You've never heard the term "Keep it in your pants" before?
I'm arguing for using them when they are worth the money, and not wasting town resources on blind, inefficient shots. More information and less targets will make them more worthwhile later.
But by all means, lead us oh wise one.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Iso (2) - Caex Kothar, Artifice 101
Artifice 101 (1) - SharkFinnigan
Emo_Pinata (1) - poggydude
poggydude (1) - Albus
It takes 7 to Lynch with 12 alive.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Remember last time you tried to meta me?
Anyway, I'm still 100% for the plan where everyone gives me their coins.
Unless you're talking about the "steal the Vig shot and the Cop investigations before the town can" thing, I'm not sure what you're hinting at.
Vote Albus
Hey Arti, wanna guess why?
@Dagger: You have me on two different lines in the votecount.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Lets not talk about those things, shall we.
If scum got the dark cult (which I see no reason for anyone to do) and the person who has the cop investigation gets no results I would believe the person scanned was scum (as long as the person who got the cop shot I believed to be town).
*starts to panic at all the WIFOM thoughts swirling*
Why are you promoting a vig shot as better then a cop investigation?
I am not a fan of giving some person a vig shot who shots into the town and helps scum out further but getting rid of one more player. I would rather confirm town and strengthen town numbers.
vote: Arnn
You are being very quiet so far this game. Usually I find you to be more chatty, even during pregame chatter.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
This post stands out as pure buddying to me.
Lets add more buddying to my post to explain myself.
Shark is leaving a bad taste and is in my current number 2 spot for scum suspects.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Let's not discuss it. Such things benefit the scum way more than the town.
Not only does Iso discuss it, but he subtly tries to extract more information from Emo_Pinata about what a "good scum team" might do.
My vote on Iso was RVS stage shennanigans, but now it's for realsies.
{Magic: The RPG}
Iso (2) - Caex Kothar, Artifice 101
Artifice 101 (1) - SharkFinnigan
Emo_Pinata (1) - poggydude
poggydude (1) - Albus
Albus (1) - Iso
Arnnaria (1) - pinkys_brain
It takes 7 to Lynch with 12 alive.
My utmost apologies, my Lord. It was an oversight that has been rectified immediately. I assure you such will not happen again.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Let's get the ball rolling. /barn Art, /barn CK, vote Iso.
unvote emo pinata vote iso
i suppose i can trust emo misread things
Need I say more?
Nope.
Unvote
It isn't a matter of better or worse, just a matter of an uglier result.
@Wrath: how many posts per page?
And how come no one answered me about the House Emblems? You guys are gonna make me look, aren't you?
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
1) How is a cop shot used be directed incorrectly? You think people can't evaulate a game that are here and see whom most have suspicious on?
2) What question did you ask about the house emblems? I'm too busy and exhausted to think or reread what I missed right now.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Come back when you can substantiate something instead of grasping at straws.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'll go ahead and translate:
"lol no"
Your defense is not adequate. Perhaps thou should have thine blacksmith forge thee some better armour.
Want something slightly more substantial? Here, I'll spell out my concerns regarding your last comments:
Emo_Pinata posts this first. I don't think it's a particularly good idea to be saying "The best move for the scum wouldn't be to do X", but he (wisely) doesn't spell out what he thinks the optimal moves would be.
If he comes up with something the scum haven't thought up, he's just given the scum advice. Maybe at a later point such information would be beneficial to the town as a way to disrupt plans already in process, but at this point all he can do is give the scum ideas because they haven't had a night phase to start working on coin exchanges or discussing bidding or whatever. If the scum haven't started their plans, they can't be disrupted.
But fortunately he doesn't actually say what these two solid avenues would be, as that would be extremely foolish. Hooray!
To which you respond:
That comment may as well read "Please tell me what you think would be better moves for the scum". Which, as I've previously established, is a scummy thing to do.
{Magic: The RPG}
{Magic: The RPG}
If your asking if Dagger created something unique from what others discribed in thread...well I didn't discribe my symbol and the discription he used for mine sounds better then the pic I used.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
To clarify: He cut out the "Yin and Yang" aspect of my symbol, but that aside, it's virtually the same as what I presented it as.
Yes, let me ask in the thread what the best play for my hypothetical scumteam would be. If I were scum, I wouldn't have drawn the attention to myself by asking. I wanted to know what E_P was thinking because it would give me an idea of what to look for - as it is, my only scumspect is Albus.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
His exchange with you. It's off somehow.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I've been busy the last couple of days. I'll try to catch up tomorrow. The game kinda exploded after I took my vote off Wrath of Dog.
I don't know if this is the right move, but I'm going to claim anyway: I'm coinless.
I breadcrumbed it early on.
The only power I have right now is my vote. And I find from what I've read that the only scummy thing is Iso being Iso.
You hear that? It's my WiFoM
alarmmedieval church bells.Also, you didn't ask him. You provided a hook that you hoped E_P would bite. By not directly asking him you leave all the blame hanging on him if he does bite, and you get deniability if he doesn't.
If he doesn't take it, oh well, you lost nothing. If he does, you get to see his thoughts on good scum moves, and as a bonus you can say "Fool! Why would you say that?! You just helped the scum! I was never asking you to reveal good plays for the scum!" thereby gaining yourself one townie point and deflecting whatever small amounts of attention you may have attracted.
Thou hast roused my suspicion. Mine vote shall remain firmly affixed to thee.
Verily.
{Magic: The RPG}
Where was the breadcrumb and why did you make one? Why the need for claim?
Is Iso usually scummy to you?????
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Why would E_P, regardless of his alignment, reveal the information in question? He's not a bad player.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Why the need to claim? Because I can't be much use to the town today or tonight until I get some coins. Like I said, the only power I have right now is my vote.
I've played enough with Iso that he isn't scummy all the time to me. He just plays scummy. I mean, if anyone else had suggested we donate all his coins to him/her, I'd be voting them right away. But it's Iso, so I'm letting it slide for now.
Because not being a bad player doesn't automatically exclude one from making bad plays.
He'd been suggesting plans/plays before you "didn't" ask him about the scum plans. Maybe you thought he'd stay on a roll and give something up? He already revealed that neither of his ideas for optimal scum strategies involved the Beggar's Guild. Maybe you thought that with a gentle coaxing he would reveal more.
It's a pretty low risk move for you either way. Either he says "Nope, probbably not a good idea to say anything" and you don't really lose anything, or he shows his hand and you gain info and townie points by calling him out for it yourself.
{Magic: The RPG}
And if E_P is scum, why did you just give him an out from answering the question?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Well, if he's scum he's going to lie and the town gains nothing and might actually end up in a worse position if he purposfully tries to manipulate the situation.
If he's town, the scum gains info and the town gains nothing. Town loses either way.
But that's beside the point. You've managed to avoid addressing my points by deflecting the focus of the discussion first to E_P and then to me. My vote is looking better all the time.
{Magic: The RPG}
Well that's mighty vague of you.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
You ever been a VT in a game before? I'm pretty certain if I look I will find this answer. If so what is the difference between this game and a typical game that you feel the need to call yourself useless?
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Yeah, I've played Vanilla Town.
But certain things can happen in this game for players to earn coins and for players to use coins. So technically, depending on the game state, other people's actions can affect me and my actions can affect other people just beyond a vote.
For example, if we all agreed to give Iso a coin. I cannot give Iso a coin. Maybe next day he writes a list of people who did not give him a coin. Does that sound vanilla to you?
I've been interviewing for jobs and attending parties, so I've been super busy. I'll read this game properly, probably tomorrow night.
Iso couldn't do that. All coin transfers are anonymous. Iso would only know that he recieved X coins or possibly that he recieved 1 coin each from X people, not who gave them.
That aside, I would like more people to comment on the Iso wagon. Preferably people who aren't involved in it. Outside perspective and all that. Albus and pinkys_brain in particular.
{Magic: The RPG}
Yeah thats something I'll be doing hopefully today.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
What have I addressed insufficiently? Do point it out for me.
You don't see it?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
We'll start here:
There's a mild bit of deflection in this post. You try to defend yourself with some WiFoM, admit you wanted to know what E_P was thinking, then at the end you say "Oh, plus check out that Albus guy" but without anything to back it up with.
I'm thinking you just wanted to start a new thread of conversation to syphon attention from you to Albus.
Admittedly it's not a strong enough "deflection" for me to have called you out on it. But as we continue, they pile up. Let's keep going:
I provide a reason for why you "asked" E_P the question about scum plans.
Your response:
Instead of directly responding or trying to debunk my reasoning, you simply say "Well why would E_P have said anything anyway, that's a bad move". Forces me to respond to what you want me to respond to (E_P's actions/motivations rather than your own) instead of continuing what I was originally talking about.
As a secondary point: In the first quote you say you wanted to know what E_P was thinking. Why are you saying him revealing it would be a bad move by him in this quote, then? You wanted him to make a bad play by revealing his thoughts?
I answer the E_P question, and then repeat my previous theory hoping you would now defend yourself.
You respond by saying "Look what you just did!". Again, not defending yourself, but deflecting the subject of my potential responses from you to me. Putting me on the defensive is one way to get me off of your case.
{Magic: The RPG}
Wagon is too fast for a weak reason. I'm not biting the wagon of quickness.
Besides Shark's post and kissing up to Iso is still weighing in my mind. Scum tend to buddy up to townies and it makes me ignore Iso till I hear from Shark more.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
I think there is a bit of sense to loading a town member with coins. However, we have to make sure that it is the proper town member and we have to do it surreptitiously so the scum don't find out and just NK him/her. And even if the scum do find out that House X is getting coins, that just adds to the Guild of Coins, which would "refund" everyone back the coins they gave and then some. This also has a detrimental effect that the Scum will get one coin richer, but I have a feeling that coins are going to be scarce as the game progresses.
Tl;dr - Iso might have been right about his suggestion, but he was wrong with his approach.
Iso (4) - Caex Kothar, Artifice 101, Emo_Pinata, poggydude
Artifice 101 (1) - SharkFinnigan
poggydude (1) - Albus
Albus (1) - Iso
Arnnaria (1) - pinkys_brain
It takes 7 to Lynch with 12 alive.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15