Vanilla – You have no ability beyond your ability to vote.
Never has a goopy, orange blob ever fascinated me more. The gonads of the sea urchin are the best food there is bar-none, and really is what made more interested in exotic foods. It’s eaten raw and provides a distinctive flavor that puts other fatty foods to shame. It’s hard to convey why it’s so good, since outwardly everything about it is entirely unappealing, but any culture positioned where Sea Urchins live eat the heck out of them. In omelettes, in stews and sauces, with olive oil, with lemon juice, or even with Salmon eggs as sashimi I will always order it (if I can afford to).
Did you really feel it necessary to role claim because of a single vote on you that you didn't even wait two minutes for me to explain?
Nope. I just realised I had set myself up. I had obviously realised that one person could definitely reveal that they are town, and I voiced that. If I didn't respond and do it before someone else, and held back, I would be assumed mafia and lynched.
I had to do it, and do it quick, without thinking, even though now I have no benefit of assurance that a single player is definitely town, other than myself.
And in doing so probably doomed myself to a mafia kill, because town would be stupid to vote me out now; hence, I am the strongest town player. So either way, I ****ed myself.
I'm going to sell the idea that you're town because you quoted your role PM but buy the idea that you're town given I really doubt an inexperienced player would express that level of sincerity + WIFOM chain as an attempt to deceive.
I'm going to sell the idea that you're town because you quoted your role PM but buy the idea that you're town given I really doubt an inexperienced player would express that level of sincerity + WIFOM chain as an attempt to deceive.
Unvote: TeChNoWC, Vote: Freddeh
WIFOM?
Yeah, I realise I have ****ed myself. Should have rolled with the punches and said I wasn't willing to quote mine for reasons that my current predicament possesses.
Mafia won't kill you. They have no real reason to. they don't have to kill everyone, just enough to give them the majority. You would be a waste of a NK because you're vanilla. Mafia wants to remove the Town's power roles.
Sure, they might kill you to remove a "confirmed" Townie. But you're not really confirmed. You're in no danger of being lynched today. But your stunt won't buy you that much down the road. Just my opinion of course.
I really don't see any reason that I'd want to kill you if I were Mafia. Everyone has their own thought processes though, so maybe Mafia see it differently than I do.
And to your earlier question, yes, I fabricated my claimed role PM. No, I didn't base it on the flavor of my real role PM. I used the structural design of my real role PM, but changed all the role info entirely.
And no, I don't see any reason to post my real role PM. Given everyone seems to have thought my fake claimed role was written by Emo, why would any new claim I made be accepted as written by Emo and not just another fabrication by me?
That and you've already made a claim and revealing even more role PM's at this stage of the game seems like a bad idea.
Mafia won't kill you. They have no real reason to. they don't have to kill everyone, just enough to give them the majority. You would be a waste of a NK because you're vanilla. Mafia wants to remove the Town's power roles.
Sure, they might kill you to remove a "confirmed" Townie. But you're not really confirmed. You're in no danger of being lynched today. But your stunt won't buy you that much down the road. Just my opinion of course.
I really don't see any reason that I'd want to kill you if I were Mafia. Everyone has their own thought processes though, so maybe Mafia see it differently than I do.
And to your earlier question, yes, I fabricated my claimed role PM. No, I didn't base it on the flavor of my real role PM. I used the structural design of my real role PM, but changed all the role info entirely.
And no, I don't see any reason to post my real role PM. Given everyone seems to have thought my fake claimed role was written by Emo, why would any new claim I made be accepted as written by Emo and not just another fabrication by me?
That and you've already made a claim and revealing even more role PM's at this stage of the game seems like a bad idea.
If I was mafia, I'd probably NK me.
And people would believe you didn't fabricate a vanilla Town post, if you produced it, because it would correlate with their vanilla town post, and thus could not be fabricated. Unless there are a ton of town roles, the majority of town now know I am town.
And I still don't believe you, sorry, so my vote sticks. If we find a mafia before the end of the day, I am 100% voting for them over now, seeing as I don't believe you'd NK me now, as you would have little need to.
If anyone out there is a doc, I implore you to give me night protection, as a confirmed friendly. Well actually, if you are doc its not confirmed to you, lol. But I still make the request.
This is certainly an odd situation. I don't see why you would straight up quote that on day one/page one. It feels like he was joking. Then again, why would you paint a big target on your forehead like that. Seems like a big risk for some laughs.
Well, I've gotten a LOT of laughs out of it. In fact, each time I read the first part of the thread, I start busting up all over again.
So yeah, totally worth it imo.
One thing of interest I picked up this time though... I never said "threats" in my original fake claim. I had changed it to "other players". Not sure how relevant that is, and I suspect it may be "bad" for me in some of the later conversations, but my perspective is understandably tainted so I'm not sure how others might view it.
Anyway, I point it out so that others reading through the section where Mzztr and I were going on about wincons can take a closer look at that aspect.
This is a ****ing crazy game of mafia, I give you that. How we have arrived at two players deciding it is in their best interests to either reveal or forge their PMs, blows my mind.
people would believe you didn't fabricate a vanilla Town post, if you produced it, because it would correlate with their vanilla town post, and thus could not be fabricated. Unless there are a ton of town roles, the majority of town now know I am town.
Why do you think it would be hard to fabricate a Town role PM? We have two examples of Vanilla Town role PMs, yours and the one in the rules. I could easily come up with another Vanilla role PM and have it look authentic. Hell, I came up with a SK role PM with no examples and everyone thought it was authentic. Why do you think it would be hard to create a Vanilla Town role PM?
This is a ****ing crazy game of mafia, I give you that. How we have arrived at two players deciding it is in their best interests to either reveal or forge their PMs, blows my mind.
I think you'll have to define "best interests"!
I didn't make my claim because it was in my "best interests". I did it purely for the troll/amusement aspect. And I gotta say, it turned out far more interestingly than I ever dreamed.
dude, of course it would be! if i made up a bunch of crap that looked good, any vanilla townie could look at his and see its difference, hence he knows im lying, and all the vanilla townies would instantly want to lynch. I cannot be lying, unless i am as stupid as ****. and now i know for almost certain, you arent vanilla town.
I don't know why anyone thinks he's confirmed. So he showed his role PM? It's possible he faked it, the outline for it is given in the first couple of posts, so it'd be easy for him to just change a few things and make it look town.
Is what you posted exactly what's written in your Role PM TeCch?
If someone claims that they are an unlynchable, unkillable, octa-voter, with 4 daykills and 6 doc-protects, then technically lynching that person solely based on his claim would be gaming the mod, but I would be just fine doing that.
I don't know why anyone thinks he's confirmed. So he showed his role PM? It's possible he faked it, the outline for it is given in the first couple of posts, so it'd be easy for him to just change a few things and make it look town.
Is what you posted exactly what's written in your Role PM TeCch?
I didn't consider the fact that all our PMs might be different, but I doubt it. Yeah, that's it. I'm guessing you aren't vanilla town, either.
I don't know why anyone thinks he's confirmed. So he showed his role PM? It's possible he faked it, the outline for it is given in the first couple of posts, so it'd be easy for him to just change a few things and make it look town.
Is what you posted exactly what's written in your Role PM TeCch?
Plus if you think I fabricated, consider the fact that I posted it in the heat of very quick conversation. Check the times.
Plus if you think I fabricated, consider the fact that I posted it in the heat of very quick conversation. Check the times.
That seems even more suspicious...as if you wanted the heat off of you...I mean, you gave up that role pm pretty quickly...without anyone even asking you. Not to mention that you're trying to out people that you think aren't vanilla town.
If someone claims that they are an unlynchable, unkillable, octa-voter, with 4 daykills and 6 doc-protects, then technically lynching that person solely based on his claim would be gaming the mod, but I would be just fine doing that.
Hhhmmm... I think I'll wait for Ahlyis' response before I retract my vote, but do you honestly believe the PM was forged? Call me gullible, but the post looks like something the mod would write... But I guess if he is a regular on a different account, then its possible he knows Emo quite well, and he may have copied a post from a previous game, or is simply very good at forging, haha.
I suspected PK at first, but his reaction to Ahlyis makes me think he is town, but the whole thing could be one big mafia plot.
hm........... what about the fact that he actually DID copy his whole PM and just tweak a few things....
That seems a bit narrow minded. How Ahlyis came up with either a fake or true role PM seems like the worst place to analyze the situation. Townleading much?
I understand, and have looked at the chances of this being a gambit.
However, two things stand out to me:
1. The fact that the town wincon is in the OP for everyone to see.
2. The wincon itself. In every game I have played where there are no neutrals, the wincon will say mafia. In every game where there are neutrals, it will say something along the lines of 'threats.' The fact that you walk in and falseclaim a neutral role is just a bit to coincidental for my tastes.
um... that really doesn't proof anything. In all my past games, the PM always say threats so that town can't make assumptions on whether or not neutral exist based on their PM.
This makes no sense.
And Ahlyis's misread makes even less sense. Although I agree with Pdr that it would be either biggest WIFOM or "failest" scum play lol.
Vanilla – You have no ability beyond your ability to vote.
Never has a goopy, orange blob ever fascinated me more. The gonads of the sea urchin are the best food there is bar-none, and really is what made more interested in exotic foods. It’s eaten raw and provides a distinctive flavor that puts other fatty foods to shame. It’s hard to convey why it’s so good, since outwardly everything about it is entirely unappealing, but any culture positioned where Sea Urchins live eat the heck out of them. In omelettes, in stews and sauces, with olive oil, with lemon juice, or even with Salmon eggs as sashimi I will always order it (if I can afford to).
You are saying you fabricated the PM, yeah? And you fabricated it off the flavour from your town PM?
I see only one solution to this problem.
If the rules state you can post PM's, then post your real, Town PM right now, and everyone will know you are town for the rest of the game. And no one will else will have that opportunity, because they can simply copy/paste.
LOL from where I came from, these offense are punishable by death.
i mean fishing, and instaclaiming, not PMquoting.
Sorry mind if I ask what your Mafia age is. You did claim you were new.... how "new" is new?
If someone claims that they are an unlynchable, unkillable, octa-voter, with 4 daykills and 6 doc-protects, then technically lynching that person solely based on his claim would be gaming the mod, but I would be just fine doing that.
I agree with you. Between his fishing for role info and his insistence that somehow he couldn't possibly have fake claimed, he's a far better Day 1 lynch than Mzztr is right now.
Unvote. Vote: Techno
I considered waiting until Monday to give more people time to read the thread, but it's not like there's a ton of votes on Techno yet and he's in danger of being quick lynched.
I agree with you. Between his fishing for role info and his insistence that somehow he couldn't possibly have fake claimed, he's a far better Day 1 lynch than Mzztr is right now.
Unvote. Vote: Techno
I considered waiting until Monday to give more people time to read the thread, but it's not like there's a ton of votes on Techno yet and he's in danger of being quick lynched.
Sorry about my delay in posting. I had a busy three days.
I'm relatively inexperienced, this is only the third game I've been in (First was a train wreck, second is ongoing), so, that stunt on the front page is sending me for a loop. Discussion that followed has essentially blotted you (Ahlyis) out in my mind: I have no idea how to feel about your actions right now, and I don't know if any amount of discussion will fix that. Part of me thinks that you want me to be hazy on your alignment. Another thinks that might have been a clever move, and clever allies are good to have later in the game.
Regardless of what you say, I am pretty sure I will doubt it.
On Techno:
In my opinion, Techno is coming across as inexperienced town reacting badly to pressure. His premature claim might be in response to Ahlyis's own rapid claim, imitation of someone who he perceives as a good player. His rapid posting and snap decision making makes me think he wants to appear like he understands what's going on.
Sorry about my delay in posting. I had a busy three days.
I'm relatively inexperienced, this is only the third game I've been in (First was a train wreck, second is ongoing), so, that stunt on the front page is sending me for a loop. Discussion that followed has essentially blotted you (Ahlyis) out in my mind: I have no idea how to feel about your actions right now, and I don't know if any amount of discussion will fix that. Part of me thinks that you want me to be hazy on your alignment. Another thinks that might have been a clever move, and clever allies are good to have later in the game.
Regardless of what you say, I am pretty sure I will doubt it.
On Techno:
In my opinion, Techno is coming across as inexperienced town reacting badly to pressure. His premature claim might be in response to Ahlyis's own rapid claim, imitation of someone who he perceives as a good player. His rapid posting and snap decision making makes me think he wants to appear like he understands what's going on.
Opinions on this?
I can give you my opinion it, if it means anything.
Yes, I reacted badly due to inexperience and realised afterwards it was a very big newbie mistake. I have no desire though to 'trick' people into thinking im experienced (?? how I would do that anyway?) because I wouldn't fool anyone, and I have been open and honest about being new. Fun first game though.
Then the next question is, how well do new player lie?
I'm not sure a new scum player fake claiming day 1 makes much sense. Since I doubt he can value the consequences and benefits (being new and his claim taken as truthful) accurately in a game like this, especially with a number of experienced people playing.
I mean taking what he claimed at face value seems to be the better alternative, imo.
Then in that case, why are there already two trigger-happy people who ganged on newbie? What do you see in that claim? Are you looking for easy target, gamerz and ahlyis?
Okay. I am confused. I thought this was supposed to be a game where one group (Mafia) tries to kill another group (Town) while hiding amongst the Town players.
If that is the case, I don't understand my Role PM.
I'm going to use the following rule to allow me to ask for help...
So, here is my role PM:
Am I part of the Town group, looking for the Mafia? But I can kill, so does that mean I am Mafia? If so, then how do I find out who my teammates are so I don't accidentally kill one of them?
It's obviously made up. It's flavor gaming, but I checked my role flavor and I don't believe the writing style matches at all. There aren't enough self-references (Emo saying Me or I in the post) in my opinion. He also doesn't say why he likes it, just how everyone needs it. It's obvfake IMO. Also, the WinCon is confusing me, as are the tactics behind the gambit.
You know, I expected that kind of a response from someone... but not from you!
VOTE: PK
So wait, you were hoping to feign inexperience to catch someone who didn't know you? How is that scumhunting? That seems more like people who aren't Px2er's hunting. That seems like easy lynch hunting. It also feels like a gambit to take early game control.
So are you suggesting you forged that PM, and if so why? It certainly doesn't look forged to me, and looks like something the mod would say. If you explain yourself better, I may be convinced to change my vote... But as is my vote still stands.
It looks forged. Your PM that you quote later on looks believable. But I think we can all agree to the forgedness of the post now, seeing as how he admits it later on.
If Ahlyis is telling the truth then he is a SK which we now know and has become Mafia number 1 target. He is not a problem for town now because we know who he is and we can use him as a vig.
Now if that is a lie then the only reason to lynch him is that we suspect that he is scum claiming SK because for now Mafia is the priority not the SK.
The last case is town claiming SK which would hurt town if he is lynched so he could be claiming to draw the NK on him instead of somebody else.
So the important question is:
Is Ahlyis scum? --> For now I don't think so but if he does something suspicious then he will become a good Day 1 lynch.
I can see him as scum. First, he lied. Second, it's for a poor reason, a trap with flawed logic behind it. Had he lied for a damn good reason, it's a different story.
After looking at some of the games there, it should be obvious that I am not new to Mafia. And that first post could only be "serious" if I were actually new to Mafia.
If you go into the Ancient games archive, the very oldest game they still have recorded has me in it (and alive at the end). The second oldest game not only has me in it, but has me pretty much single-handedly winning the game for Town. Granted, that was a bit of a strange game. Sadly, Shawshank Mafia is even older and now lost. I mention Shawshank because in that game too I claimed SK day 1 (as Town).
And that's why PK's reaction confused me. PK has been playing even longer than I have, is an excellent player, and KNOWS I'm not some newb to not even know what an SK is or be confused by a role PM like that.
However... I'm going to have to change my vote off of PK. Something bigger just came along...
What was the something bigger? Not sure if this was ever explained or if it was just the Tetris back-and-forth you had.
Also, when considering your gambit, did you consider all possible reactions and what they could mean/why they would react that way? What was the reaction you were fishing for?
That's interesting... because that IS what my wincon says in my actual role PM.
If everyone else wants to step forward and say that their wincon specifically says "Mafia" and not "threats", then I'll just take one for the team and write it down to extremely bad luck that I got the ONLY role PM worded differently.
I think it much more likely though that this is a slip. That he actually has a role PM that specifies he remove all Town, and just assumed Town had the reverse.
Unvote. Vote: MzztrTetris
I feel like this is weak reasoning to call someone scum. Jumping to the conclusion that something is a slip, especially in an argument that was clearly misunderstood by both parties, is a reach. I don't like how jumpy Ahl is either.
How many times will you get to do something like that? How often will people think you are new?
I felt reasonably safe with it because almost half the players are from Px2 and know me as a regular player of long standing there. I was expecting support from them that I wasn't a newb that wouldn't understand what a SK role was... not a vote from the first one that came along! *glares at PK*
You are still going to have to explain to me how reaction fishing against people who aren't familiar with you = scumhunting. What you appeared to do was vote worthy. I just don't see the logic behind the trap you set.
Okay, I can see it now. I misunderstood it the first time.
But, if you're sure he is Town because of that, then why not me as well? I obviously had "threats" in my wincon or I wouldn't have known to use that wording. And if you check up on my history at Px2 you'll see I'm definitely not a newb that wouldn't understand their role PM.
Still, if people really want to lynch me, so be it. If nothing else, at least I got this game started off without days and days of joke voting and nothing consequential being said.
But he didn't use the word threats in the WinCon. The WinCon Ahl posted was basically kill everyone, IIRC. I'll have to reread that and a few other things a couple of times, but it looks suspicious. Also don't like the preparedness for being lynched here. I've never liked any form of defeatism.
I'd kill PK if I actually were an SK or Vig. You voting for me makes sense, but PK voting for me makes no sense at all.
I'm not worried about your vote though. You can't lynch me. It takes you and about 6 others to lynch me. Would I prefer you vote someone else? Sure. But unless we're near the deadline, or the banbdwagon continues piling up, even the three votes I have now (it is three, isn't it?) isn't all that worrying... yet.
There's still a LOT of time left in Day 1. I may still be the lynch by the the end of the Day, but I expect once more people have a chance to participate, there will be some other candidates as well.
Wait, so now you are excusing Tech for doing the same thing PK did? Because IIRC your plan was supposed to fool those that hadn't played with you before. Has Tech played with the Px2 people before, cause he seems to say that he's a noob. This is totally flipping on the previously indicated logic for the trap.
Also don't like the flippant response to pressure. It's just a gut read, but it looks cocky IMO.
Vanilla – You have no ability beyond your ability to vote.
Never has a goopy, orange blob ever fascinated me more. The gonads of the sea urchin are the best food there is bar-none, and really is what made more interested in exotic foods. It’s eaten raw and provides a distinctive flavor that puts other fatty foods to shame. It’s hard to convey why it’s so good, since outwardly everything about it is entirely unappealing, but any culture positioned where Sea Urchins live eat the heck out of them. In omelettes, in stews and sauces, with olive oil, with lemon juice, or even with Salmon eggs as sashimi I will always order it (if I can afford to).
You win when all threats are eliminated.
Confirm by responding to this PM.
Dunno why this even happened. Still, I believe the flavor, as it does look similar to the style that EP has written the PM's in. It makes me think he actually is town, but he could have easily changed things around and deleted the part about his teammates. Given his level of experience, I'm inclined to believe him, but that doesn't mean he's getting a free pass as town. Just leaning town.
This is a ****ing crazy game of mafia, I give you that. How we have arrived at two players deciding it is in their best interests to either reveal or forge their PMs, blows my mind.
What's your level of experience again? Because the fact that you know to classify this as a crazy game makes me think you've played in other games and you just happen to know that this doesn't usually happen. This statement reads like you have been in games before.
I didn't consider the fact that all our PMs might be different, but I doubt it. Yeah, that's it. I'm guessing you aren't vanilla town, either.
Why are you guessing about roles and who's/who's not vanilla? Whatever you might be seeing, if you think you have solid evidence supporting one player having a power role or not, keep it to yourself. Because this looks like you calling out potential targets to people.
Still need to read this thread another 5 times before all of it will make sense to me.
Ahl: Give me your entire thought process surrounding your gambit. What were you looking for? What reactions were scummy/not scummy? Could townies have those reactions? Gimme everything that went through your head before you made that post.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Who was that masked man anyway?
MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
FACE. PALM. This would have been a much easier read if I were just here when people were posting.
It's obviously made up. It's flavor gaming, but I checked my role flavor and I don't believe the writing style matches at all. There aren't enough self-references (Emo saying Me or I in the post) in my opinion. He also doesn't say why he likes it, just how everyone needs it. It's obvfake IMO. Also, the WinCon is confusing me, as are the tactics behind the gambit.
This is good. I see no problem with this reaction.
So wait, you were hoping to feign inexperience to catch someone who didn't know you? How is that scumhunting? That seems more like people who aren't Px2er's hunting. That seems like easy lynch hunting. It also feels like a gambit to take early game control.
It looks forged. Your PM that you quote later on looks believable. But I think we can all agree to the forgedness of the post now, seeing as how he admits it later on.
I can see him as scum. First, he lied. Second, it's for a poor reason, a trap with flawed logic behind it. Had he lied for a damn good reason, it's a different story.
What was the something bigger? Not sure if this was ever explained or if it was just the Tetris back-and-forth you had.
Also, when considering your gambit, did you consider all possible reactions and what they could mean/why they would react that way? What was the reaction you were fishing for?
I feel like this is weak reasoning to call someone scum. Jumping to the conclusion that something is a slip, especially in an argument that was clearly misunderstood by both parties, is a reach. I don't like how jumpy Ahl is either.
You are still going to have to explain to me how reaction fishing against people who aren't familiar with you = scumhunting. What you appeared to do was vote worthy. I just don't see the logic behind the trap you set.
A really poor excuse to call someone town. Easy Tetris could be lying, right?
But he didn't use the word threats in the WinCon. The WinCon Ahl posted was basically kill everyone, IIRC. I'll have to reread that and a few other things a couple of times, but it looks suspicious. Also don't like the preparedness for being lynched here. I've never liked any form of defeatism.
Wait, so now you are excusing Tech for doing the same thing PK did? Because IIRC your plan was supposed to fool those that hadn't played with you before. Has Tech played with the Px2 people before, cause he seems to say that he's a noob. This is totally flipping on the previously indicated logic for the trap.
Also don't like the flippant response to pressure. It's just a gut read, but it looks cocky IMO.
Dunno why this even happened. Still, I believe the flavor, as it does look similar to the style that EP has written the PM's in. It makes me think he actually is town, but he could have easily changed things around and deleted the part about his teammates. Given his level of experience, I'm inclined to believe him, but that doesn't mean he's getting a free pass as town. Just leaning town.
What's your level of experience again? Because the fact that you know to classify this as a crazy game makes me think you've played in other games and you just happen to know that this doesn't usually happen. This statement reads like you have been in games before.
Why are you guessing about roles and who's/who's not vanilla? Whatever you might be seeing, if you think you have solid evidence supporting one player having a power role or not, keep it to yourself. Because this looks like you calling out potential targets to people.
Still need to read this thread another 5 times before all of it will make sense to me.
Ahl: Give me your entire thought process surrounding your gambit. What were you looking for? What reactions were scummy/not scummy? Could townies have those reactions? Gimme everything that went through your head before you made that post.
Your analyses make me even more suspicious that Alhyis is not town. Ok, so MAYBE he forged that PM... But I really don't think so. But the other alarming trait is his eagerness to start a bandwagon. Quickly jumping between (from what I see) three different votes.
1. His vote for PK just seemed reactionary and noobish, but in light of the other two votes, he seems to be trying to make a case for everyone to suspect him as scum, then quickly drops that for
2. His vote for Tetris seemed to come out of nowhere and for no apparent reason, as he has shown little to no sign of scummyness.
3. His vote for me seemed way too bandwagon. Gamerz voted, and then he quickly changes his mind and all of a sudden decides I would be a good first day lynching, when most of the time he interacted with me before that, he always reacted as though he assumed or even knew I was town.
Ahlyis is something but it's not town, and he is too risky to keep in the game. I'm not sure about Gamerz, but I definitely do not think he is Vanilla, so big chance he is scum, but no where near as large an indication as there is that something is wrong with Ahlyis.
And no, like I said, this is my first online game of mafia.
So wait, you were hoping to feign inexperience to catch someone who didn't know you? How is that scumhunting? That seems more like people who aren't Px2er's hunting. That seems like easy lynch hunting. It also feels like a gambit to take early game control
I can see him as scum. First, he lied. Second, it's for a poor reason, a trap with flawed logic behind it. Had he lied for a damn good reason, it's a different story.
What was the something bigger? Not sure if this was ever explained or if it was just the Tetris back-and-forth you had.
I thought Mzztr had made a slip. I later realized I had misread his post, but when I posted the part you are questioning, I thought I'd caught a slip by Mzztr, whom I voted in my next post, iirc.
Also, when considering your gambit, did you consider all possible reactions and what they could mean/why they would react that way? What was the reaction you were fishing for?
More of the assuming this was a gambit and that I was trying to trap someone with it. Why?
What you appeared to do was vote worthy. I just don't see the logic behind the trap you set.
Agreed. I expected to get some votes. Never expected anything else. And I still don't understand why you keep accusing me of trying to set a trap. what was the trap?
Wait, so now you are excusing Tech for doing the same thing PK did?
Absolutely. Tech doesn't know me. I wasn't surprised he would vote for me. But PK knows me. We've had some really strong games together in the past. how he could possibly think my post was real, well... he couldn't. Not if he was sober. the only way I could explain PK's reaction, given that he knows I'm not a new player, by any stretch, was to assume he was either drunk or trying to pull a fast one.
Because IIRC your plan was supposed to fool those that hadn't played with you before. Has Tech played with the Px2 people before, cause he seems to say that he's a noob. This is totally flipping on the previously indicated logic for the trap.
I wouldn't call it a "plan", but yes, I thought it would be good for a few laughs at the reactions of others that didn't know me. I wasn't fishing for reactions as part of a scumhunting ploy. I was just trying to have some fun.
And believe me, this has certainly been fun, for me at least.
Also don't like the flippant response to pressure. It's just a gut read, but it looks cocky IMO.
Meh, whatever. If you think I need to freak out and over-react to votes that are perfectly legitimate given the claim I made, well, I'm not sure what I can tell you.
Why are you guessing about roles and who's/who's not vanilla?
Is role fishing NOT a lynch worthy action here? At Px2 we'd probably already have lynched him for it! (Well, maybe not that quickly, but he'd definitely be taking more heat for it than he seems to be here.)
Ahl: Give me your entire thought process surrounding your gambit. What were you looking for? What reactions were scummy/not scummy? Could townies have those reactions? Gimme everything that went through your head before you made that post.
It wasn't a "gambit". It was simply something I thought would be a funny way to get the game started. I still think that. If you disagree, well, you're entitled to your opinion. But I have no regrets over it.
Ahlyis, our claim about voting for Tetris because you thought he made a slip and then backing out after you realized he didn't is bull****. Check back. You realized long before you relinquished your vote, and you didn't relinquish until Gamerz voted for me and you bandwagoned in return, and you still made out that tetris was a 'good first day lynch'; but just that I was better (because that wasn't working for your scum plan). You are obviously looking to quick blame others and create suspicions, and push the game along. Your behaviour is uber scum or SK, and you aren't consistent with your lies.
I really thought that was a tactic. until i see your response to Gricky.
then my question is, what makes it not one? You Acted upon reaction to it, a.k.a. voting for PK. It was indirectly because of you Techno claimed (?). And I don't see anyone else laughing.
Your claim that it was "just for laugh" seems like an after-thought to patch things out. Why claim joke now when everything seems to be falling apart? Bad timing?
Ahlyis, our claim about voting for Tetris because you thought he made a slip and then backing out after you realized he didn't is bull****. Check back. You realized long before you relinquished your vote, and you didn't relinquish until Gamerz voted for me and you bandwagoned in return, and you still made out that tetris was a 'good first day lynch'; but just that I was better (because that wasn't working for your scum plan). You are obviously looking to quick blame others and create suspicions, and push the game along. Your behaviour is uber scum or SK, and you aren't consistent with your lies.
You make some pretty strong assertions here.
After I'm lynched, I really hope you'll re-read your post and realize just what an *** you just made of yourself!
I've got no problem with the votes on me. I did something which I knew could be trouble, but which I thought would be a lot of fun as well. But I don't appreciate the tone of your post. You don't know me. Telling me what my motivations are for the things I did is NOT going to do anything but **** me off!
I had no problem with you or your vote on me before that post. But I've got one now.
Your claim that it was "just for laugh" seems like an after-thought to patch things out. Why claim joke now when everything seems to be falling apart? Bad timing?
You're right. It wasn't a joke. That really is my role PM and I was just too stupid to understand it. My first post was honest confusion, not a joke.
I've got to say, I came over here at PK's request.
But I had no idea that this place was so full of itself that it can't even take a joke.
Unvote. VOTE: Ahlyis
Again, I have no problems with the votes cast against me because of my claim (except for PK's). I have a problem with the attitudes since. Techno was out of line. But he's not the only one that seems to have that sort of attitude.
Okay fine. I don't have to play here. I've got enough other things going on that leaving here pretty much as soon as I started isn't going to be a big loss.
You can have your site AND your attitudes.
If the mod prefers to replace me over letting me vote for myself, whatever. Just more evidence of the attitudes of this site. I won't lose any sleep over it.
I was about two seconds from hitting submit on what's inside that sblock. But I'm not sure how much of it is accurate.
Techno's post REALLY ****ed me off. But the rest of the flak I'm getting, well, I'm not in a fit state right now to determine how justified it is.
Unvote.
I think I'll go do something else for a few hours before I come back here.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Just a pigment of your imagination.
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Explain?
Uni
Wiki
You are Town
Vanilla – You have no ability beyond your ability to vote.
Never has a goopy, orange blob ever fascinated me more. The gonads of the sea urchin are the best food there is bar-none, and really is what made more interested in exotic foods. It’s eaten raw and provides a distinctive flavor that puts other fatty foods to shame. It’s hard to convey why it’s so good, since outwardly everything about it is entirely unappealing, but any culture positioned where Sea Urchins live eat the heck out of them. In omelettes, in stews and sauces, with olive oil, with lemon juice, or even with Salmon eggs as sashimi I will always order it (if I can afford to).
You win when all threats are eliminated.
Confirm by responding to this PM.
Agreed. And if you don't unvote me now, I am assuming you are mafia.
Nope. I just realised I had set myself up. I had obviously realised that one person could definitely reveal that they are town, and I voiced that. If I didn't respond and do it before someone else, and held back, I would be assumed mafia and lynched.
I had to do it, and do it quick, without thinking, even though now I have no benefit of assurance that a single player is definitely town, other than myself.
Unvote: TeChNoWC, Vote: Freddeh
WIFOM?
Yeah, I realise I have ****ed myself. Should have rolled with the punches and said I wasn't willing to quote mine for reasons that my current predicament possesses.
Sure, they might kill you to remove a "confirmed" Townie. But you're not really confirmed. You're in no danger of being lynched today. But your stunt won't buy you that much down the road. Just my opinion of course.
I really don't see any reason that I'd want to kill you if I were Mafia. Everyone has their own thought processes though, so maybe Mafia see it differently than I do.
And to your earlier question, yes, I fabricated my claimed role PM. No, I didn't base it on the flavor of my real role PM. I used the structural design of my real role PM, but changed all the role info entirely.
And no, I don't see any reason to post my real role PM. Given everyone seems to have thought my fake claimed role was written by Emo, why would any new claim I made be accepted as written by Emo and not just another fabrication by me?
That and you've already made a claim and revealing even more role PM's at this stage of the game seems like a bad idea.
If I was mafia, I'd probably NK me.
And people would believe you didn't fabricate a vanilla Town post, if you produced it, because it would correlate with their vanilla town post, and thus could not be fabricated. Unless there are a ton of town roles, the majority of town now know I am town.
And I still don't believe you, sorry, so my vote sticks. If we find a mafia before the end of the day, I am 100% voting for them over now, seeing as I don't believe you'd NK me now, as you would have little need to.
Well, I've gotten a LOT of laughs out of it. In fact, each time I read the first part of the thread, I start busting up all over again.
So yeah, totally worth it imo.
One thing of interest I picked up this time though... I never said "threats" in my original fake claim. I had changed it to "other players". Not sure how relevant that is, and I suspect it may be "bad" for me in some of the later conversations, but my perspective is understandably tainted so I'm not sure how others might view it.
Anyway, I point it out so that others reading through the section where Mzztr and I were going on about wincons can take a closer look at that aspect.
Or do you think you are the only Vanilla Townie?
I didn't make my claim because it was in my "best interests". I did it purely for the troll/amusement aspect. And I gotta say, it turned out far more interestingly than I ever dreamed.
Is what you posted exactly what's written in your Role PM TeCch?
I didn't consider the fact that all our PMs might be different, but I doubt it. Yeah, that's it. I'm guessing you aren't vanilla town, either.
Plus if you think I fabricated, consider the fact that I posted it in the heat of very quick conversation. Check the times.
That seems even more suspicious...as if you wanted the heat off of you...I mean, you gave up that role pm pretty quickly...without anyone even asking you. Not to mention that you're trying to out people that you think aren't vanilla town.
hm........... what about the fact that he actually DID copy his whole PM and just tweak a few things....
That seems a bit narrow minded. How Ahlyis came up with either a fake or true role PM seems like the worst place to analyze the situation. Townleading much?
This makes no sense.
And Ahlyis's misread makes even less sense. Although I agree with Pdr that it would be either biggest WIFOM or "failest" scum play lol.
LOL from where I came from, these offense are punishable by death.
i mean fishing, and instaclaiming, not PMquoting.
Sorry mind if I ask what your Mafia age is. You did claim you were new.... how "new" is new?
Ok.
Vote TeChNoWC
I am almost certain that he is mafia.
Unvote. Vote: Techno
I considered waiting until Monday to give more people time to read the thread, but it's not like there's a ton of votes on Techno yet and he's in danger of being quick lynched.
I doubt I'll be lynched, just mod killed or NK.
First online game, for whoever was asking.
That's why.
I'm relatively inexperienced, this is only the third game I've been in (First was a train wreck, second is ongoing), so, that stunt on the front page is sending me for a loop. Discussion that followed has essentially blotted you (Ahlyis) out in my mind: I have no idea how to feel about your actions right now, and I don't know if any amount of discussion will fix that. Part of me thinks that you want me to be hazy on your alignment. Another thinks that might have been a clever move, and clever allies are good to have later in the game.
Regardless of what you say, I am pretty sure I will doubt it.
On Techno:
In my opinion, Techno is coming across as inexperienced town reacting badly to pressure. His premature claim might be in response to Ahlyis's own rapid claim, imitation of someone who he perceives as a good player. His rapid posting and snap decision making makes me think he wants to appear like he understands what's going on.
Opinions on this?
I can give you my opinion it, if it means anything.
Yes, I reacted badly due to inexperience and realised afterwards it was a very big newbie mistake. I have no desire though to 'trick' people into thinking im experienced (?? how I would do that anyway?) because I wouldn't fool anyone, and I have been open and honest about being new. Fun first game though.
Then the next question is, how well do new player lie?
I'm not sure a new scum player fake claiming day 1 makes much sense. Since I doubt he can value the consequences and benefits (being new and his claim taken as truthful) accurately in a game like this, especially with a number of experienced people playing.
I mean taking what he claimed at face value seems to be the better alternative, imo.
Then in that case, why are there already two trigger-happy people who ganged on newbie? What do you see in that claim? Are you looking for easy target, gamerz and ahlyis?
It's obviously made up. It's flavor gaming, but I checked my role flavor and I don't believe the writing style matches at all. There aren't enough self-references (Emo saying Me or I in the post) in my opinion. He also doesn't say why he likes it, just how everyone needs it. It's obvfake IMO. Also, the WinCon is confusing me, as are the tactics behind the gambit.
This is good. I see no problem with this reaction.
So wait, you were hoping to feign inexperience to catch someone who didn't know you? How is that scumhunting? That seems more like people who aren't Px2er's hunting. That seems like easy lynch hunting. It also feels like a gambit to take early game control.
It looks forged. Your PM that you quote later on looks believable. But I think we can all agree to the forgedness of the post now, seeing as how he admits it later on.
I can see him as scum. First, he lied. Second, it's for a poor reason, a trap with flawed logic behind it. Had he lied for a damn good reason, it's a different story.
What was the something bigger? Not sure if this was ever explained or if it was just the Tetris back-and-forth you had.
Also, when considering your gambit, did you consider all possible reactions and what they could mean/why they would react that way? What was the reaction you were fishing for?
I feel like this is weak reasoning to call someone scum. Jumping to the conclusion that something is a slip, especially in an argument that was clearly misunderstood by both parties, is a reach. I don't like how jumpy Ahl is either.
You are still going to have to explain to me how reaction fishing against people who aren't familiar with you = scumhunting. What you appeared to do was vote worthy. I just don't see the logic behind the trap you set.
A really poor excuse to call someone town. Easy Tetris could be lying, right?
But he didn't use the word threats in the WinCon. The WinCon Ahl posted was basically kill everyone, IIRC. I'll have to reread that and a few other things a couple of times, but it looks suspicious. Also don't like the preparedness for being lynched here. I've never liked any form of defeatism.
Wait, so now you are excusing Tech for doing the same thing PK did? Because IIRC your plan was supposed to fool those that hadn't played with you before. Has Tech played with the Px2 people before, cause he seems to say that he's a noob. This is totally flipping on the previously indicated logic for the trap.
Also don't like the flippant response to pressure. It's just a gut read, but it looks cocky IMO.
Dunno why this even happened. Still, I believe the flavor, as it does look similar to the style that EP has written the PM's in. It makes me think he actually is town, but he could have easily changed things around and deleted the part about his teammates. Given his level of experience, I'm inclined to believe him, but that doesn't mean he's getting a free pass as town. Just leaning town.
What's your level of experience again? Because the fact that you know to classify this as a crazy game makes me think you've played in other games and you just happen to know that this doesn't usually happen. This statement reads like you have been in games before.
Why are you guessing about roles and who's/who's not vanilla? Whatever you might be seeing, if you think you have solid evidence supporting one player having a power role or not, keep it to yourself. Because this looks like you calling out potential targets to people.
Still need to read this thread another 5 times before all of it will make sense to me.
Ahl: Give me your entire thought process surrounding your gambit. What were you looking for? What reactions were scummy/not scummy? Could townies have those reactions? Gimme everything that went through your head before you made that post.
Your analyses make me even more suspicious that Alhyis is not town. Ok, so MAYBE he forged that PM... But I really don't think so. But the other alarming trait is his eagerness to start a bandwagon. Quickly jumping between (from what I see) three different votes.
1. His vote for PK just seemed reactionary and noobish, but in light of the other two votes, he seems to be trying to make a case for everyone to suspect him as scum, then quickly drops that for
2. His vote for Tetris seemed to come out of nowhere and for no apparent reason, as he has shown little to no sign of scummyness.
3. His vote for me seemed way too bandwagon. Gamerz voted, and then he quickly changes his mind and all of a sudden decides I would be a good first day lynching, when most of the time he interacted with me before that, he always reacted as though he assumed or even knew I was town.
Ahlyis is something but it's not town, and he is too risky to keep in the game. I'm not sure about Gamerz, but I definitely do not think he is Vanilla, so big chance he is scum, but no where near as large an indication as there is that something is wrong with Ahlyis.
And no, like I said, this is my first online game of mafia.
More of the assuming I was setting a trap.
I thought Mzztr had made a slip. I later realized I had misread his post, but when I posted the part you are questioning, I thought I'd caught a slip by Mzztr, whom I voted in my next post, iirc.
More of the assuming this was a gambit and that I was trying to trap someone with it. Why?
Wait, my first post in the game is supposed to be about scumhunting? Just what the hell was there to scumhunt on?
Agreed. I expected to get some votes. Never expected anything else. And I still don't understand why you keep accusing me of trying to set a trap. what was the trap?
Absolutely. Tech doesn't know me. I wasn't surprised he would vote for me. But PK knows me. We've had some really strong games together in the past. how he could possibly think my post was real, well... he couldn't. Not if he was sober. the only way I could explain PK's reaction, given that he knows I'm not a new player, by any stretch, was to assume he was either drunk or trying to pull a fast one.
I wouldn't call it a "plan", but yes, I thought it would be good for a few laughs at the reactions of others that didn't know me. I wasn't fishing for reactions as part of a scumhunting ploy. I was just trying to have some fun.
And believe me, this has certainly been fun, for me at least.
Meh, whatever. If you think I need to freak out and over-react to votes that are perfectly legitimate given the claim I made, well, I'm not sure what I can tell you.
Is role fishing NOT a lynch worthy action here? At Px2 we'd probably already have lynched him for it! (Well, maybe not that quickly, but he'd definitely be taking more heat for it than he seems to be here.)
It wasn't a "gambit". It was simply something I thought would be a funny way to get the game started. I still think that. If you disagree, well, you're entitled to your opinion. But I have no regrets over it.
then my question is, what makes it not one? You Acted upon reaction to it, a.k.a. voting for PK. It was indirectly because of you Techno claimed (?). And I don't see anyone else laughing.
Your claim that it was "just for laugh" seems like an after-thought to patch things out. Why claim joke now when everything seems to be falling apart? Bad timing?
Vote: Ahlyis
Ahlyis- 3 TeChNoWC, MzztrTetris, theatog
TeChNoWC - 2 Gamerz, Ahlyis
Freddeh - 1 ProphetKing
WITH 12 ALIVE IT TAKES 7 TO LYNCH!
After I'm lynched, I really hope you'll re-read your post and realize just what an *** you just made of yourself!
I've got no problem with the votes on me. I did something which I knew could be trouble, but which I thought would be a lot of fun as well. But I don't appreciate the tone of your post. You don't know me. Telling me what my motivations are for the things I did is NOT going to do anything but **** me off!
I had no problem with you or your vote on me before that post. But I've got one now.
P.S. I've got a nice bridge for sale.
But I had no idea that this place was so full of itself that it can't even take a joke.
Unvote. VOTE: Ahlyis
Again, I have no problems with the votes cast against me because of my claim (except for PK's). I have a problem with the attitudes since. Techno was out of line. But he's not the only one that seems to have that sort of attitude.
Okay fine. I don't have to play here. I've got enough other things going on that leaving here pretty much as soon as I started isn't going to be a big loss.
You can have your site AND your attitudes.
If the mod prefers to replace me over letting me vote for myself, whatever. Just more evidence of the attitudes of this site. I won't lose any sleep over it.
I was about two seconds from hitting submit on what's inside that sblock. But I'm not sure how much of it is accurate.
Techno's post REALLY ****ed me off. But the rest of the flak I'm getting, well, I'm not in a fit state right now to determine how justified it is.
Unvote.
I think I'll go do something else for a few hours before I come back here.