Aside from the fact that your method of locking scum into fake-claims is to type up a list of things they could fake-claim, should they need to.
As Wheaties said if someone is forced to claim range and randomly provide a name of that list it is possible that someone else has been given that role and it provides a fairly safe way of counter claiming them which does not reveal the role of the counter claimer.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
What difference does the existence of the list play in this?
Don't you still have to claim your role name to counter claim a role name anyway?
To take an example that is not going to show up in the game. Say I claim Hilary Rodam Clinton someone can counter claim the name without revealing that they are a power role, there by netting us a scum player whilst also hiding who the power roles are and protecting them from the night kill for a while.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
What difference does the existence of the list play in this?
Don't you still have to claim your role name to counter claim a role name anyway?
The difference is that the list constrains to 12 names, and thus the scum must choose among them. If 9 are among the town, there's a 75% chance that the scum will choose a taken name, be cc'd, and be lynched.
Plus, as Kah said, role name =/= role, as in PR or vanilla, etc.
What difference does the existence of the list play in this?
Don't you still have to claim your role name to counter claim a role name anyway?
In the first quote, you sound well-educated about the possibilities of the list. In the second quote, you're playing dumb by asking questions about basic mafia instead of asserting yourself. There is a discontinuity here.
No, I'm not playing dumb. In the second quote, I thought that Kahedron was suggesting that the list somehow makes counter claiming work differently, so I asked him how this was the case.
In the first quote, you sound well-educated about the possibilities of the list. In the second quote, you're playing dumb by asking questions about basic mafia instead of asserting yourself. There is a discontinuity here.
Unvote, vote Aubergenius.
While I don't think that particular progression is scummy, I do think that something seems a bit off about Aubergenius. His language seems pretty forced to me.
While I don't think that particular progression is scummy, I do think that something seems a bit off about Aubergenius. His language seems pretty forced to me.
Unvote, Vote Aubergenius
Vote Wheat_Grinder
Based on my brief reread of WG, reads like him in scum mode. *neck crack*
Ah, so is the difference that the list isn't an exhaustive one of the Republican candidates? That would make sense.
It feels forced because you came to a completely different conclusion from what I was saying.
But why?
The names in the setup exist regardless of whether or not they've been listed out. Each of those names itself exists regardless of the list being typed out or not.
You say that the probability changes "dramatically", but it's exactly the same if the list includes every possible name - why should it change?
If we have 12 names, and everyone agrees that their name is among them, if the scum are lying, they have a large chance of being cc'd.
If there are more candidates who haven't had their names listed here, say another 12, then without the list the scum have 24 names to choose from.
I have no idea how many candidates there were, but if it's more than 12 then it certainly constrains the scum. If it IS exhaustive, then it still doesn't hurt as those were are only options to begin with.
Reading genuine concern about how the list affects the game from Aubergenius. I don't like WG's vote. Seems like a quick hop on the wagon for such a minor concern.
While I don't think that particular progression is scummy, I do think that something seems a bit off about Aubergenius. His language seems pretty forced to me.
Unvote, Vote Aubergenius
It reads just fine to me. What exactly is forced about it?
Among other things it locks the scum into roleclaims. I suspect, however, that the scum are either Republican candidates themselves or have fake-claims thereof, so it doesn't particularly matter, but there's still a chance that we can limit the scum's pool and force them into claiming one of the roles belonging to a town, who will counterclaim them and assure a scum lynch.
@Mod: Are the scum Republican candidates as well? Or can't you tell us that?
I'm fairly new to mafia but straight up asking the mod for info on scum feels like you are trying very hard to convince everyone you're town right off the bat. How often does a mod answer a question like that? Would you were you the mod?
Allow me to preface my post with a couple things:
Firstly, my name is on the list.
Secondly, unvote, in case I still have a joke vote that would be an issue.
In the first quote, you sound well-educated about the possibilities of the list. In the second quote, you're playing dumb by asking questions about basic mafia instead of asserting yourself. There is a discontinuity here.
Unvote, vote Aubergenius.
Judging by his next post, I'd say that you're not looking at bad scum play, you're looking at someone (aubergenius) who isn't as quick as they give themselves credit for. He could still be mafia, but there's no way I'd vote for him at the moment. I'll expand on this in a second.
Whether the list exists or not still doesn't make a difference to a counter claim here. Somebody claims your name - you counter claim that name.
Ah, so is the difference that the list isn't an exhaustive one of the Republican candidates? That would make sense.
No, I'm not playing dumb. In the second quote, I thought that Kahedron was suggesting that the list somehow makes counter claiming work differently, so I asked him how this was the case.
See what I mean? He misunderstood the purpose of the list (to make falseclaims more difficult, since they can be reliably CC'd without revealing PRs). He continued in his derp-streak, and failed to realize that you can CC a name without CCing a role.
While I don't think that particular progression is scummy, I do think that something seems a bit off about Aubergenius. His language seems pretty forced to me.
Unvote, Vote Aubergenius
To me, that vote reads as a thinly veiled bandwagon vote. Can you elaborate on how Aubergenius' language is "off?" Have you played a game with him, giving you knowledge of his usual language? And why would you, in the first few posts out of RVS, vote for a player who you don't see any problems with (in terms of their interactions)?
Based on my brief reread of WG, reads like him in scum mode. *neck crack*
I agree that his play is weird, not gonna jump at it without a little bit of scumhunt first. I'd be curious to see what games you're referencing, to see if he is in fact in his scum game right now.
Reading genuine concern about how the list affects the game from Aubergenius. I don't like WG's vote. Seems like a quick hop on the wagon for such a minor concern.
It reads just fine to me. What exactly is forced about it?
Also, don't like this.
I'm fairly new to mafia but straight up asking the mod for info on scum feels like you are trying very hard to convince everyone you're town right off the bat. How often does a mod answer a question like that? Would you were you the mod?
Also, flavorgaming, meh...
I like you
I think as long as we don't go any further with flavorgaming than the list of names (which is accurate so far), then we should be fine.
I have no idea how many candidates there were, but if it's more than 12 then it certainly constrains the scum.
Could you please elaborate? How does having more than 12 on the list provide any constraints at all? If anything, if eases the constraints since there would be more personas than players, and so they could be claimed without conflict.
I'm fairly new to mafia but straight up asking the mod for info on scum feels like you are trying very hard to convince everyone you're town right off the bat. How often does a mod answer a question like that? Would you were you the mod?
What about asking the mod for info like that makes the move scummy? The roles don't matter until people people start claiming, and information like that could be useful later on. I don't see anything particularly scummy about it, as I figure a town role might've just as easily asked the same thing. Did I miss something?
If you are not on The List (tm) you should say so. Now. Not doing so would be blatantly anti-town now that this information is public. (Well, it was always public, in terms of being a list of former and current Republican candidates in real life, but now it's in the thread.)
Players who have confirmed their presence on The List (tm):
Its a badly disguised attempt to force a softclaim and flavor game in one small package. I would have though that it was something that Seppel wouldn't try, it falling to one of the newer players but I guess I was wrong.
So wait.
You have a problem with making it harder for the scum to fakeclaim? And yet, you later freely confirm your presence on the list...
Reading genuine concern about how the list affects the game from Aubergenius. I don't like WG's vote. Seems like a quick hop on the wagon for such a minor concern.
I will admit that I only have Aubergenius as leaning scum, but since that's scummier than everyone else I might as well have my vote put to use.
It reads just fine to me. What exactly is forced about it?
I can't pinpoint it exactly, but something about it felt weird to me.
Also, don't like this.
I'm fairly new to mafia but straight up asking the mod for info on scum feels like you are trying very hard to convince everyone you're town right off the bat. How often does a mod answer a question like that? Would you were you the mod?
Also, flavorgaming, meh...
Sometimes the mod will answer, sometimes they won't. They usually don't but it never hurts to ask.
To me, that vote reads as a thinly veiled bandwagon vote. Can you elaborate on how Aubergenius' language is "off?" Have you played a game with him, giving you knowledge of his usual language? And why would you, in the first few posts out of RVS, vote for a player who you don't see any problems with (in terms of their interactions)?
I'd elaborate if I could, but I don't think I can. There's something just subtly off about it to me that I can't quite pinpoint to explain it better.
I am happy to hear that I am not the only one who thought this way about Wheat's vote.
I was testing the waters with Aubergenius. His response was level-headed and I'm getting a ton of good reads off of it.
Here's one right now: Unvote, vote Wheat_Grinder
God I hate these traps. They are wrong way too often.
What bugs me more is that it's on me so I can't even speak out against it decently.
I feel that Aubergenius' language felt a little forced, and that's scummier than anyone else so far so I voted him because I like to put my vote to work. I did not vote for him because you did.
Could you please elaborate? How does having more than 12 on the list provide any constraints at all? If anything, if eases the constraints since there would be more personas than players, and so they could be claimed without conflict.
I'm saying having additional rolenames outside of the list is a strong possibility, and so if we limit it to 12 the scum are constrained.
Since it sounds like you're using meta, I have to ask: how many games of mine have you read?
Really, that's your question? Not asking which games I got the read from?
I skimmed the first few pages of many of your most recent games, as I usually do to establish a town/scum baseline. What struck me was your early game in Basic 60, and the tentative style therein.
Welp, I made a post that was almost mistake free...
Unvote, Vote: Kahedron
Almost completely mistake free, like most of my posts in Little big planet. Could you do us a favor, don't relentless tunnel me this game
Answer to your question/assertion, had a decent nights sleep between those 2 posts so I could actually work out what Seppel was proposing with the list. And Seppel is usually very anti vomiting any kind of additional information into the thread so was surprised that he was the one that proposed it.
EWP: Oh yeah RVS has ended Unvote Seppel
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
We're missing the point? I can't see what we're missing the point on that requires that we switch our attention back to the list claim.
Is it all scumhunting happening that's the problem? That's all I can see.
Vote Raging Levine
I don't see why you vote here.
In your other post, you say that not claiming whether you are on the list or not is blatantly anti-town. However, your problem with Kahedron is that he did softclaim. I don't get it.
My point is he's contradicting himself... This shoud be patently obvious.
I want to tie everyone to the list before people move to the next thing. Your vote sucks <3
Really, that's your question? Not asking which games I got the read from?
I skimmed the first few pages of many of your most recent games, as I usually do to establish a town/scum baseline. What struck me was your early game in Basic 60, and the tentative style therein.
I implied which by how many.
As far as being tentative, why would I vote Aubergenius so quickly?
In your post, you say that the list constrains the to 12 names. The only way it wouldn't apply any constraints is if there are 12 names anyway i.e. if the list was exhaustive.
You actually make that same logical step in the underlined part in the rest of your post:
If there are exactly 12 names anyway, then there are 12 names, and the existence of the list doesn't change that beyond perhaps letting the scum know something.
If there are more than 12 names, the existence of the list does change it a little. Keep in mind that the last few people to claim to have a lot more freedom about their claim should they want to falseclaim. This could be of note if Small Child turns out to be very scummy.
It's all pointless if the scum have false names provided or are repulican candidates themselves, which might be the case.
All right, so here's my feelings about the list:
If there are more than 12 presidential candidates, and the scum don't have fake claims or are Republican themselves, then the list helps.
I do NOT mean 12 candidates in the list. I mean more than 12 in all of the Candidacy that are possibly claimable but NOT NECESSARILY on the list.
The list should remain 12 unless someone claims not on the list.
Now if there are fake claims or the scum are Republican themselves, then the list is useless, yes. But in the event that neither of these turn out to be true, then the scum are constrained and the town benefits. In the other cases, the town is not hurt.
The next discussion topic. I cannot predict the future, but in the abstract, that. Sure, we can scum hunt simultaneously, but more posts by unconfirmed people without them confirming would give them time to somehow sidestep the list.
I just didnt want tying everyone to the list to fall by the wayside or be forgotten since it is important and useful.
The next discussion topic. I cannot predict the future, but in the abstract, that. Sure, we can scum hunt simultaneously, but more posts by unconfirmed people without them confirming would give them time to somehow sidestep the list.
I literally searched "2012 Republican Presidential Candidates" to get that list as my first result.
EBWODP: Forgot to respond to this.
I looked up that list just now. It looks like there is more than 12. So now it's just a matter of if there are fake claims and whether the scum are also Republicans.
I will admit that I only have Aubergenius as leaning scum, but since that's scummier than everyone else I might as well have my vote put to use.
I can't pinpoint it exactly, but something about it felt weird to me.
I'd elaborate if I could, but I don't think I can. There's something just subtly off about it to me that I can't quite pinpoint to explain it better.
I feel that Aubergenius' language felt a little forced, and that's scummier than anyone else so far so I voted him because I like to put my vote to work. I did not vote for him because you did.
Other than his language, do you see any problems with his play?
The next discussion topic. I cannot predict the future, but in the abstract, that. Sure, we can scum hunt simultaneously, but more posts by unconfirmed people without them confirming would give them time to somehow sidestep the list.
I just didnt want tying everyone to the list to fall by the wayside or be forgotten since it is important and useful.
Your posts are strangely low content lately. There's only one player (Small Child) who has yet to confirm their presence on the list. Are you saying we should just stop playing until Small Child or his replacement arrives?
As I said, I cannot predict the future. I do not know.
So why bring it up? Right now, you're doing more to distract the town than push the game forward. I don't think you're very scummy (not votably so, anyway), but you're definitely obstructing the town.
Your posts are strangely low content lately. There's only one player (Small Child) who has yet to confirm their presence on the list. Are you saying we should just stop playing until Small Child or his replacement arrives?
So why bring it up? Right now, you're doing more to distract the town than push the game forward. I don't think you're very scummy (not votably so, anyway), but you're definitely obstructing the town.
No, I don't want that, but I want to make sure everyone confirms their presence on the list before someone sidelines us and the town forgets about it, leaving someone off the hook for it.
Huh? I answered the question I was asked. I'm trying to prevent the town from getting distracted. That's my whole thing here.
What is Kahedron going to do there? Not soft claim? But would be anti-town by your standards, and also going against consensus for the hell of it.
Notice how I claimed that I was on the list. Don't you have an issue with that?
You also take it as a given that the list claim makes scum fake claims harder. But you make no attempt to explain why. Why don't you do that now? In your own words.
Forgot to answer this earlier.
My point is that Kahedron is unhappy with the soft claim but then, in a later post, gleefully goes along with it without objection. Does that not strike you as odd? A person committed to his or her ideas and logic would likely still soft claim (as not doing so would be blatantly anti-town) but would do so under greater protest. Kahedron shows little commitment to his own idea here, and I find townies are usually less happy to abandon prior logic than scum.
Locking the scum into a list of 12 names for claims is useful because it limits the names they can claim should they not really be on this list. If a scum claims a name that a townie actually has when at L-2 or otherwise forced to claim, the townie can counterclaim and we can out a scum. If the scum are actually unique personalities on that list, then it won't do much, but if the flavor of the scum is that they're not Republican Presidential Candidates, then it will help by making fakeclaims risky for them.
My point is that Kahedron is unhappy with the soft claim but then, in a later post, gleefully goes along with it without objection. Does that not strike you as odd? A person committed to his or her ideas and logic would likely still soft claim (as not doing so would be blatantly anti-town) but would do so under greater protest. Kahedron shows little commitment to his own idea here, and I find townies are usually less happy to abandon prior logic than scum.
There were posts in between the two referenced which easily could have changed his mind. I don't think it's an issue.
You say that you'd expect Kahedron to protest some more if he was commited to his logic. Yet you also accuse Kahedron of not being commited to his logic. That's no contradiction - they both only mean that Kahedron wasn't that invested in his initial argument.
Then why introduce the point at all? I believe it's a contradiction, and you don't. I don't think either one of us will sway the other.
Broadly speaking, there are two things going on in this game. There is some scumhunting, and there is a fairly aimless softclaim.
You are trying to stop people getting distracted from the latter. Some might say that the latter is a distraction at this stage.
Some more cynical people may suggest that you are trying to appear to be doing something by drawing people's attention to the latter.
I have stated this when it was brought up at least once so far.
If these are your words, then why did you bring up this propaganda point again?
It's late, and my brain is growing numb, but to clarify-
>Run Bob up to L-2
>Bob claims Tim Ronson, vanilla townie.
Because of the list, which he confirmed his name was on, he had to choose from 12 names. If his name, in truth, was not on the list, then there's a good chance someone else has the name. So
>Alice counter-claims the Tim Ronson name-claim, but not the role-claim.
>Alice is actually Tim Ronson, Cop. But because of the list, she does not have to out her cop claim.
>Bob is caught lying, and the cop survives.
Thus, the list forces the mafia to commit to one of twelve names for their false-claims. If they get CC'd, they don't necessarily get info out of that claim. If the mafia's name's are on the list, then we're roughly where we would be without the list; counter claiming roles only.
You Started it.
I am on that list you published earlier.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
As Wheaties said if someone is forced to claim range and randomly provide a name of that list it is possible that someone else has been given that role and it provides a fairly safe way of counter claiming them which does not reveal the role of the counter claimer.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
To take an example that is not going to show up in the game. Say I claim Hilary Rodam Clinton someone can counter claim the name without revealing that they are a power role, there by netting us a scum player whilst also hiding who the power roles are and protecting them from the night kill for a while.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
The difference is that the list constrains to 12 names, and thus the scum must choose among them. If 9 are among the town, there's a 75% chance that the scum will choose a taken name, be cc'd, and be lynched.
Plus, as Kah said, role name =/= role, as in PR or vanilla, etc.
Can we stick him in Detention for Tardiness??
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
He and his ilk are the reason that we left Guantanamo open.
As god as my witness, yes.
In the first quote, you sound well-educated about the possibilities of the list. In the second quote, you're playing dumb by asking questions about basic mafia instead of asserting yourself. There is a discontinuity here.
Unvote, vote Aubergenius.
Why did you ask him instead of telling him?
While I don't think that particular progression is scummy, I do think that something seems a bit off about Aubergenius. His language seems pretty forced to me.
Unvote, Vote Aubergenius
The odds of cc'ing change dramatically though in the presence of a set list.
I have no idea whether it is exhaustive or not, and frankly it doesn't matter so long as it constrains the scum.
Vote Wheat_Grinder
Based on my brief reread of WG, reads like him in scum mode. *neck crack*
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Since it sounds like you're using meta, I have to ask: how many games of mine have you read?
This is the best example:
It feels forced because you came to a completely different conclusion from what I was saying.
If we have 12 names, and everyone agrees that their name is among them, if the scum are lying, they have a large chance of being cc'd.
If there are more candidates who haven't had their names listed here, say another 12, then without the list the scum have 24 names to choose from.
I have no idea how many candidates there were, but if it's more than 12 then it certainly constrains the scum. If it IS exhaustive, then it still doesn't hurt as those were are only options to begin with.
It reads just fine to me. What exactly is forced about it?
Also, don't like this.
I'm fairly new to mafia but straight up asking the mod for info on scum feels like you are trying very hard to convince everyone you're town right off the bat. How often does a mod answer a question like that? Would you were you the mod?
Also, flavorgaming, meh...
Sig & Avvy by Disappointing Signets Inc.
CCC&G BRAGGING RIGHTS
Mafia Statistics
I collect pacifism: 228
Firstly, my name is on the list.
Secondly, unvote, in case I still have a joke vote that would be an issue.
Judging by his next post, I'd say that you're not looking at bad scum play, you're looking at someone (aubergenius) who isn't as quick as they give themselves credit for. He could still be mafia, but there's no way I'd vote for him at the moment. I'll expand on this in a second.
See what I mean? He misunderstood the purpose of the list (to make falseclaims more difficult, since they can be reliably CC'd without revealing PRs). He continued in his derp-streak, and failed to realize that you can CC a name without CCing a role.
His play is weird, but not Die Potato weird.
To me, that vote reads as a thinly veiled bandwagon vote. Can you elaborate on how Aubergenius' language is "off?" Have you played a game with him, giving you knowledge of his usual language? And why would you, in the first few posts out of RVS, vote for a player who you don't see any problems with (in terms of their interactions)?
I agree that his play is weird, not gonna jump at it without a little bit of scumhunt first. I'd be curious to see what games you're referencing, to see if he is in fact in his scum game right now.
I like you
I think as long as we don't go any further with flavorgaming than the list of names (which is accurate so far), then we should be fine.
Join the Poetry Running Contest!
I was testing the waters with Aubergenius. His response was level-headed and I'm getting a ton of good reads off of it.
Here's one right now: Unvote, vote Wheat_Grinder
Could you please elaborate? How does having more than 12 on the list provide any constraints at all? If anything, if eases the constraints since there would be more personas than players, and so they could be claimed without conflict.
What about asking the mod for info like that makes the move scummy? The roles don't matter until people people start claiming, and information like that could be useful later on. I don't see anything particularly scummy about it, as I figure a town role might've just as easily asked the same thing. Did I miss something?
If you are not on The List (tm) you should say so. Now. Not doing so would be blatantly anti-town now that this information is public. (Well, it was always public, in terms of being a list of former and current Republican candidates in real life, but now it's in the thread.)
Players who have confirmed their presence on The List (tm):
Wheat_Grinder
Bolly
Aubergenius
Annorax
Raging Levine
Kahedron
Zelderex
Seppel
Players who have yet to confirm their presence on The List (tm):
SilvioBerlusconi
Emocakes
Xyre
Small Child
So wait.
You have a problem with making it harder for the scum to fakeclaim? And yet, you later freely confirm your presence on the list...
Vote: Kahedron
Welp, I made a post that was almost mistake free...
Unvote, Vote: Kahedron
I will admit that I only have Aubergenius as leaning scum, but since that's scummier than everyone else I might as well have my vote put to use.
I can't pinpoint it exactly, but something about it felt weird to me.
Sometimes the mod will answer, sometimes they won't. They usually don't but it never hurts to ask.
I'd elaborate if I could, but I don't think I can. There's something just subtly off about it to me that I can't quite pinpoint to explain it better.
God I hate these traps. They are wrong way too often.
What bugs me more is that it's on me so I can't even speak out against it decently.
I feel that Aubergenius' language felt a little forced, and that's scummier than anyone else so far so I voted him because I like to put my vote to work. I did not vote for him because you did.
I'm saying having additional rolenames outside of the list is a strong possibility, and so if we limit it to 12 the scum are constrained.
You're contradicting yourself. Care to pick the correct one?
Also, for the record, I am on that list.
Sig & Avvy by Disappointing Signets Inc.
CCC&G BRAGGING RIGHTS
Mafia Statistics
I collect pacifism: 228
Would be cool to hear from Small Child at all.
Prophylaxis: If Small Child does not show up tomorrow then I will have no qualms replacing him with a lesser known candidate.
Really, that's your question? Not asking which games I got the read from?
I skimmed the first few pages of many of your most recent games, as I usually do to establish a town/scum baseline. What struck me was your early game in Basic 60, and the tentative style therein.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Almost completely mistake free, like most of my posts in Little big planet. Could you do us a favor, don't relentless tunnel me this game
Answer to your question/assertion, had a decent nights sleep between those 2 posts so I could actually work out what Seppel was proposing with the list. And Seppel is usually very anti vomiting any kind of additional information into the thread so was surprised that he was the one that proposed it.
EWP: Oh yeah RVS has ended Unvote Seppel
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
My point is he's contradicting himself... This shoud be patently obvious.
I want to tie everyone to the list before people move to the next thing. Your vote sucks <3
@Levine: What is the next thing to move on to?
So far he sounds like town Kah.
It's not a contradiction. I'll put a full explanation at the bottom of this post.
I implied which by how many.
As far as being tentative, why would I vote Aubergenius so quickly?
All right, so here's my feelings about the list:
If there are more than 12 presidential candidates, and the scum don't have fake claims or are Republican themselves, then the list helps.
I do NOT mean 12 candidates in the list. I mean more than 12 in all of the Candidacy that are possibly claimable but NOT NECESSARILY on the list.
The list should remain 12 unless someone claims not on the list.
Now if there are fake claims or the scum are Republican themselves, then the list is useless, yes. But in the event that neither of these turn out to be true, then the scum are constrained and the town benefits. In the other cases, the town is not hurt.
Have I explained it well enough now?
Why haven't you looked this up yet?
I'm lazy and political sites are impossible to navigate.
The next discussion topic. I cannot predict the future, but in the abstract, that. Sure, we can scum hunt simultaneously, but more posts by unconfirmed people without them confirming would give them time to somehow sidestep the list.
I just didnt want tying everyone to the list to fall by the wayside or be forgotten since it is important and useful.
I literally searched "2012 Republican Presidential Candidates" to get that list as my first result.
What is the next discussion topic?
As I said, I cannot predict the future. I do not know.
As bad as this makes me want to vote you, I know this isn't how you play as scum, unless you've changed up your tactics.
EBWODP: Forgot to respond to this.
I looked up that list just now. It looks like there is more than 12. So now it's just a matter of if there are fake claims and whether the scum are also Republicans.
How is not being an oracle scummy? /boggle
There's a pretty obvious discussion topic after the list.
I don't see it. Perhaps I lack your experience or particular mindset.
'Dat active lurking.
Other than his language, do you see any problems with his play?
Your posts are strangely low content lately. There's only one player (Small Child) who has yet to confirm their presence on the list. Are you saying we should just stop playing until Small Child or his replacement arrives?
So why bring it up? Right now, you're doing more to distract the town than push the game forward. I don't think you're very scummy (not votably so, anyway), but you're definitely obstructing the town.
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No, I don't want that, but I want to make sure everyone confirms their presence on the list before someone sidelines us and the town forgets about it, leaving someone off the hook for it.
Huh? I answered the question I was asked. I'm trying to prevent the town from getting distracted. That's my whole thing here.
Forgot to answer this earlier.
My point is that Kahedron is unhappy with the soft claim but then, in a later post, gleefully goes along with it without objection. Does that not strike you as odd? A person committed to his or her ideas and logic would likely still soft claim (as not doing so would be blatantly anti-town) but would do so under greater protest. Kahedron shows little commitment to his own idea here, and I find townies are usually less happy to abandon prior logic than scum.
Locking the scum into a list of 12 names for claims is useful because it limits the names they can claim should they not really be on this list. If a scum claims a name that a townie actually has when at L-2 or otherwise forced to claim, the townie can counterclaim and we can out a scum. If the scum are actually unique personalities on that list, then it won't do much, but if the flavor of the scum is that they're not Republican Presidential Candidates, then it will help by making fakeclaims risky for them.
I'm not a fan of how he kept fighting the list, but that's about it thus far.
There were posts in between the two referenced which easily could have changed his mind. I don't think it's an issue.
Well, he didn't say anything about it, which disturbs me. I don't like how you're answering for him in his absence, either.
Then why introduce the point at all? I believe it's a contradiction, and you don't. I don't think either one of us will sway the other.
Moderately.
Please back this assertion up with facts.
Okay, so we agree, then!
Your second sentence does not parse. My words are, well, my words. What is this "propaganda" of which you speak?
Okay!
Then I disagree with some people.
Cool.
It's late, and my brain is growing numb, but to clarify-
>Run Bob up to L-2
>Bob claims Tim Ronson, vanilla townie.
Because of the list, which he confirmed his name was on, he had to choose from 12 names. If his name, in truth, was not on the list, then there's a good chance someone else has the name. So
>Alice counter-claims the Tim Ronson name-claim, but not the role-claim.
>Alice is actually Tim Ronson, Cop. But because of the list, she does not have to out her cop claim.
>Bob is caught lying, and the cop survives.
Thus, the list forces the mafia to commit to one of twelve names for their false-claims. If they get CC'd, they don't necessarily get info out of that claim. If the mafia's name's are on the list, then we're roughly where we would be without the list; counter claiming roles only.
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