Is this real life? What is going on here? Why is information being needlessly spilled into the thread? Arnnaria, why would you claim early? WHY! Pressure from poggydude's fishing is NOT a valid reason to claim.
This game is far too tight for people to be loose with their information. Please keep it close to the chest unless the TOWN calls upon you to claim, NOT one random person who is looking scummier by the minute with his fishing attempts. Next thing you know, Aang and/or the Cop will be full claiming...
Just give it a break already. You've been hounding me at every chance you get. This isn't mafia, this is a vindictive witch hunt. You have shown no respect for me as a player or as a person. Jeez, i know you think I'm scum, but I can't even get a word in edgewise without you flipping it, turning it sideways, and cramming it down my throat.
Yes, and I've been lynched before. But at least those times people haven't attacked me over and over again for a mental gaffe. I'm not going to go OOG here, because I know it's frowned upon, but having a mental gaffes is fairly common for me. It just feels like him attacking my gaffe over and over is him attacking my condition and him attacking me.
@Arnnaria: That is kinda the point of mafia. You try to poke holes in other people's logic until they slip up (I.E. a Scum slip.) The fact you are reacting this way is just helping to provide proof to his case.
Saying that, Dragon is raising a real good point here. He is letting info slide out like crazy. While it is bad play, letting info slip is usually bad TOWN play. If he is somehow scum, the real vig will most likely take care of him without even speaking up, or he will be copped at the first available opportunity.
@Arnnaria: That is kinda the point of mafia. You try to poke holes in other people's logic until they slip up (I.E. a Scum slip.) The fact you are reacting this way is just helping to provide proof to his case.
Saying that, Dragon is raising a real good point here. He is letting info slide out like crazy. While it is bad play, letting info slip is usually bad TOWN play. If he is somehow scum, the real vig will most likely take care of him without even speaking up, or he will be copped at the first available opportunity.
There's poking holes in people's logic and there's belittling them. The first, I can handle. But I can't take the condescending attitudes much longer.
One cannot hold two opposing beliefs in their mind at the same time.
You claimed to hold the belief that "Aang needs to be alive to win" and "Aang doesn't need to be alive to win" in the same post (#14). You claim I have buddies, which makes me scum, yet try to convince me that you're town - something you'd only do if you believed me to be town, as well as using lines like "I know you think I'm scum".
For you to be town makes absolutely no sense.
No, making a newb mistake is no scummy. No, having a mental gaffe is not scummy. It's the mindset behind it that is, which led you to lie about knowing the win conditions in order to cover your overreaction.
And for the record, OOG stuff like that is meta, and is perfectly fine.
One cannot hold two opposing beliefs in their mind at the same time.
You claimed to hold the belief that "Aang needs to be alive to win" and "Aang doesn't need to be alive to win" in the same post (#14). You claim I have buddies, which makes me scum, yet try to convince me that you're town - something you'd only do if you believed me to be town, as well as using lines like "I know you think I'm scum".
For you to be town makes absolutely no sense.
No, making a newb mistake is no scummy. No, having a mental gaffe is not scummy. It's the mindset behind it that is, which led you to lie about knowing the win conditions in order to cover your overreaction.
And for the record, OOG stuff like that is meta, and is perfectly fine.
Then OOG: I'm bipolar/schizophrenic. Sometimes I have lapses in memory when I'm stressed, which I was due to it being Finals week. I need to go to bed now. I'll address any questions in the morning.
I can confirm that Arnnaria makes erratic plays from Star Trek Voyager Mafia. Just like poggydude though, that's not auto-town. Just because you two do scummy things as town, doesn't mean you are town every time you do scummy things.
I still feel that Tanarin has behaved more scummy than Arnnaria this game, but Tanarin's last post sounds fairly town.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
Is this real life? What is going on here? Why is information being needlessly spilled into the thread? Arnnaria, why would you claim early? WHY! Pressure from poggydude's fishing is NOT a valid reason to claim.
At least he claimed an easily confirmable role. But still...
I still feel that Tanarin has behaved more scummy than Arnnaria this game, but Tanarin's last post sounds fairly town.
He's fence-sitting on Arnnaria's alignment, just like Wrath_of_DoG. I don't see how that is at all townish.
@Arnnaria: I would be OK with you shooting either Tanarin or WoD at some point in the game. They've managed to (weakly) link themselves in both directions and are more than willing to attack me for a mass-claim I never condoned but are somehow unable to pin down their opinions on other players.
So it took me a good 2 hours but i have caught up, so where do i stand?
1. Push on Mander's for the 'lurking' is ridiculous, specially since she had explained she would be indisposed prior to Role PM's even being made, i see her post as a simple "Well since i can only post this much lets try some fun and see if i can get achievements!"
2. On Arnnaria, i see his meltdown as a townie meltdown, a scum would be doing much more flailing, while his replies are inconsistent they are still consistent in that, he has not tried to alter the explanations to far which is a much more likely action from a town blunder mindset.
One thing to note, i immediately disliked Poggy for the way he is pushing this, if you notice Cy began the case and while it was a sturdy case in itself Poggy jumped on it and completely took for himself BUT never once made it personal every single time he pushed Arn it was always "well Cy's post shows you are lying" and "Cy showed how that was illogical" he has always been pushing the case while making sure ALL credit, both good and bad, be sure to fall squarely on Cy, don't like it at all.
(Mini RVS since i didnt get one: Poggy Inquiring Minds want to know: Is the moon made of cheese? and what is the latest spirit fashion?)
3. I am in favor of doing a Move to Evening vote today, we would get the Ability results and 10-12 days to review them as well as our reads on players, i am not in agreement with a No Lynch Vote nore do i want to Vote during Morning. Mass Claim i cant objectively talk about because im biased due to my history of heavy flavor gaming.
4. I promise i will try to keep the Tunneling to a minimum.
5. Depending on Aang staying alive is just not an option early game, we have to play with the mindset that the Scum has one condition fulfilled already.
6. Any questions?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
I didn't ask for his name. I was just concerned that we'd have to protect him extensively if someone did come out as him. You're reading between lines that aren't even there. Although, none of this matters because you won't respond for 36 hours.
Nice pot shot there at the end. What does it matter when I respond as long as I do?
The problem's that the explanation had already been mentioned by AsianInvasion as of a few posts before his vote. He should know what the explanation is.
I know, but I still want him to answer it. Which he hasn't done.
Random side-note: my play's been compared to a more wide-range version of desCoures's.
I'll forever be impressed with you from Normalville Mafia.
Well I guess I can't make any sort of exclamatory comments without getting cornered. I was generally concerned that someone had revealed said information. My mistake was asking about it instead of investigating it for myself.
If you are town, that is your epic mistake. It came across incredibly bloodthirsty, and I can't just throw that away.
he was incredibley anti claim and if there was an avatar claim assuming the scum have daychat(which seems likely based on the odd setup) it would be lit up like a christmas tree(ie he would not need an answer to his question)
this vote is an oppurtunistic hunk of garbage
vote mandershex
Do you remember what happened the last time you voted me for an opportunistic post?
I'm going to wait for a third or fourth party to read both sides of this before I comment further. I'm not covering my tracks. I just didn't realize the intricacies of the win conditions. I was confused about the order of night actions, I was confused that someone had claimed Aang, why is it unforgivable that I was confused about this too?
I don't believe you wouldn't have asked Seppel for clarifications. I don't believe that one bit.
i read cyounis case and it makes a good amount of sense your claim of misunderstanding seems to contradict what you already wrote. i dont know if this is just a mistake on your part or an actual scumslip. either way i want you to respond.
to show im serious unvote vote arnaria
this vote will move back to manders if and when im satisfied
im sorry but this is contradicting directly with what chouni pointed out. if the games complexity makes it hard to keep aang alive is a statement that ackknowledegs that aang could very well die and that the game still goes on. the only mistake you made was lying.
you arent owning up to it at all and town simply doesnt do that.
i still think manders is probably scum but i think arnaria is almost certainly scum
Her reasoning for posting less is that she is posting from work and can't spare the time to post more than once per work day. Again, OoG and irrelevant to her alignment. I am getting a little tired of reiterating this same point when people could simply RTFT.
To be fair, it's not that I'm posting from work. I have reliable internet at home now, so when I post, it's when I'm home. But, with work, family/friends, and sleep, I don't have a lot of time with which to spend posting.
Unvote Vote: poggydude
His shameless barning of Cyouni pinged my scumdar, but now Arnnaria's claimed and he didn't unvote? We have no reason to doubt Arnnaria's claim and all the reason in the world to give him a chance to confirm himself. poggy deserves pressure.
Now to catch up on what was posted while I slept/played Magic last night.
Is this real life? What is going on here? Why is information being needlessly spilled into the thread? Arnnaria, why would you claim early? WHY! Pressure from poggydude's fishing is NOT a valid reason to claim.
This game is far too tight for people to be loose with their information. Please keep it close to the chest unless the TOWN calls upon you to claim, NOT one random person who is looking scummier by the minute with his fishing attempts. Next thing you know, Aang and/or the Cop will be full claiming...
You already knew. You try dealing with a tunneling character for five pages who twists everything you say into new information for his "case.". Which was based upon a simple mistake I made. It's not fun to be backed into a corner like that and I was having no fun defending myself time and time again from Manders, Cyouni, and Poggy.
I'm sure this too is going to be twisted into some sort of scum gambit too. Either way, now the ball is in their court if they really think its the Towns best interest to lynch me.
I like how you toss me into there when you discarded my statements with, "But you won't respond for 36 hours."
Yes, and I've been lynched before. But at least those times people haven't attacked me over and over again for a mental gaffe. I'm not going to go OOG here, because I know it's frowned upon, but having a mental gaffes is fairly common for me. It just feels like him attacking my gaffe over and over is him attacking my condition and him attacking me.
No one's attacking YOU, ARNNARIA, THE MAN BEHIND THE SCREENNAME or your condition. Stop taking everything so personally.
Hell, bet you anything Cyouni didn't even know you HAD a condition.
I was wrong that game and i was lynched that doesnt mean your vote was not horrible. You are knocking off your attempt for that awful achievement and are now posting so i will now have more to analyze.
I have some comments to make on your latest wall post i'll get to that now i suppose
What is it with you going after MandersHex this game? I really don't get it.
that vote was really bad and you even agreed. She had strong intentions to lurk(the second is no longer true which means i will be able to analyze more)
you dont think that bad vote makes her scum, i do. Why are you so unwilling to understand that/why are you so aggresively hopping to her aid?
i always take a while to move my vote, you know this, just reread STV for examples of this.
It also took a while for it to sink in that falseclaim vigs generally just get shot by the real vig(although this usually works best in basics). This is something i forget way to often.
Unvote Vote: poggydude
His shameless barning of Cyouni pinged my scumdar, but now Arnnaria's claimed and he didn't unvote? We have no reason to doubt Arnnaria's claim and all the reason in the world to give him a chance to confirm himself. poggy deserves pressure.
So aranaria is telling the truth? :/
I shamelessly barned cyounis case because there is virtually nothing to add. The case was very specific and revolved around one detail, there is pretty much no way to agree with it without just barning it.
I shamelessly barned cyounis case because there is virtually nothing to add. The case was very specific and revolved around one detail, there is pretty much no way to agree with it without just barning it.
soft claim if you think it helps arn im pretty much for your full claim dude
i think that if we have a reasonable certaintity on the scuminess of a player getting a claim out of them before abilities isnt a bad thing, pink floyd
willingness to hunt sounds like you you dont have conviction/already know who is town, cyouni. that statement is horribly dubious
WOD-i dont agree with what artifice did, but you really cant let that prevent you from playing
Assuming Arnnaria is telling the truth, should someone even fire with a Vig ability that hides the information? Btw, that role has a name. It's called Janitor, or in this case, specifically a Janitor Vig. It's traditionally a scum role, but I don't know if we can trust that this game.
What do you guys think? Should a Janitor Vigilante shoot?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
Your reactions to that declaration have solidified my opinion. There were other factors involved, but I had a good feeling (and rightly so) that you would respond appropriately to that statement. Call it reaction-testing.
What do you guys think? Should a Janitor Vigilante shoot?
Only in LyLo or a clear-cut counterclaim/investigation situation that forces a dichotomy between two players (after one of those players flips town, ofc).
I got a prod, am I replaced? Hope not, but consider me V/LA until Monday. Just got a promotion at work and am in the middle of a 3 day, 36 hour work spree. This thread has exploded and I've got too much to catch up on. Trying really hard not to replace out, but if my life gets any more hectic, that might end up being reality for me. Someone PM me if I'm already replaced though. Sorry.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Who was that masked man anyway?
MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
So how do we check Arnnaria's claim if you think he shouldn't shoot?
Hmm. I guess we can't until one of the situations I outlined pops up. It's a pretty elaborate false claim if that's what it is, and I really haven't read him as scum at any point in the game. Inexperienced, confused, and bad at paying attention, but not scum.
Shooting blind just seems terrible given the tight nature of the game.
I got a prod, am I replaced? Hope not, but consider me V/LA until Monday. Just got a promotion at work and am in the middle of a 3 day, 36 hour work spree. This thread has exploded and I've got too much to catch up on. Trying really hard not to replace out, but if my life gets any more hectic, that might end up being reality for me. Someone PM me if I'm already replaced though. Sorry.
You guys are missing what I'm trying to say: the Janitor Vig shot is ONE of my three abilities. The first one can't be "proved" publically, the third one I have to keep secret so I can use it effectively when the time is right.
Then OOG: I'm bipolar/schizophrenic. Sometimes I have lapses in memory when I'm stressed, which I was due to it being Finals week. I need to go to bed now. I'll address any questions in the morning.
Not sure how that affects the scenario, but I'll take it into consideration.
Explain how that affect a) the fact that you claimed to have two different mindsets on the same post and b) the fact that you called me scum (having buddies - with daytalk, no less) just yesterday yet are treating me as though I'm town.
Me: Makes sense. But I'm really confused about my role.
Correction: you said something to the effect of "but that only applies if the vig has a normal role. I don't really understand my role." What you said only is true if someone's cherry-picking the sentence.
Assuming Arnnaria is telling the truth, should someone even fire with a Vig ability that hides the information? Btw, that role has a name. It's called Janitor, or in this case, specifically a Janitor Vig. It's traditionally a scum role, but I don't know if we can trust that this game.
What do you guys think? Should a Janitor Vigilante shoot?
I can think of very few scenarios in which the claimed ability should be used, most of which are advantageous to scum.
So how do we check Arnnaria's claim if you think he shouldn't shoot?
That's the issue. That part can almost never be confirmed.
@pinkfloyd: In order: People whose motivations I'm not going to question for now, people I'm meh about, people who need to post more, person I'm interested in question, person who is very probably scum.
After thinking about it, I agree. A Janitor Vig shot hurts the town by blocking information. It should only be used if we have confirmed scum or in a desperate situation. Kind of sucks for a townie to have that power, because now it's like a blank ability except in a special case. MUCH less powerful compared to a normal Vig shot.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
The first part I can only explain by "doublethink". Sometimes my illness has me holding onto two contradictory beliefs. For example, "Cyouni is trying to hunt scum so he must be town" while the paranoid part of my brain is screaming "He's coming after you, he must be scum!"
I know no one can clarify this, but my friends often get upset because everything in our friendship is going fine but the "doublethink" forces me to be paranoid about a certain slight that they might have against me that's causing them to hold a grudge against me. Read any game I have played with Manders. It eventually comes up that I'm paranoid that she is "holding a grudge" against me because of something I said or did in the past.
It's going on right now. I'm afraid to PM Manders because I'm paranoid she's upset with me for comments I made about her.
Having two different mindsets in the same post comes from believing in one thing so much that I take it on as "the truth", but then becoming obsessed with another idea that I totally forget it invalidates the other thing I believe to be true. My friends always have me evaluate the empirical evidence. I'll be distraught that my life is in shambles even though everything is going right.
I can give you an example from this very game. During your case against me there were a lot of players coming to my defense. But due to the constant pressure of everything I said or did to try to dissuade you, I kept digging myself into a deeper and deeper hole. Then when Poggy started in on me last night, I didn't evaluate that with my defenders it would be hard to get me to L-2. But I felt like the burden was on me so I claimed and I lashed back and attacked you. I was o uncomfortable about it that I couldn't fall asleep. So I got up and posted that "OOG" comment, which calmed me down enough so I could go to sleep.
Rationally, my back wasn't against the wall. But my paranoia had me feeling that it was time to claim.
Having two different mindsets in the same post comes from believing in one thing so much that I take it on as "the truth", but then becoming obsessed with another idea that I totally forget it invalidates the other thing I believe to be true. My friends always have me evaluate the empirical evidence. I'll be distraught that my life is in shambles even though everything is going right.
I can give you an example from this very game. During your case against me there were a lot of players coming to my defense. But due to the constant pressure of everything I said or did to try to dissuade you, I kept digging myself into a deeper and deeper hole. Then when Poggy started in on me last night, I didn't evaluate that with my defenders it would be hard to get me to L-2. But I felt like the burden was on me so I claimed and I lashed back and attacked you. I was o uncomfortable about it that I couldn't fall asleep. So I got up and posted that "OOG" comment, which calmed me down enough so I could go to sleep.
Rationally, my back wasn't against the wall. But my paranoia had me feeling that it was time to claim.
1. You are so obvtown that it hurts.
2. Forum Mafia might not be the game for you.
1. You are so obvtown that it hurts.
2. Forum Mafia might not be the game for you.
Yeah I know it isn't the best hobby for me in the world, but it forces me to interact with others who don't agree with me and that actually helps me in "real life". Trust me, I've come a long way from where I was before and at it's often therapeutic for me. That being said, I think I need to stick to Basics for a bit longer.
Yeah I know it isn't the best hobby for me in the world, but it forces me to interact with others who don't agree with me and that actually helps me in "real life". Trust me, I've come a long way from where I was before and at it's often therapeutic for me. That being said, I think I need to stick to Basics for a bit longer.
My point is that if Mafia is causing you negative side-effects IRL, it may not be healthy to continue playing. This is rather OoG, so perhaps we should discuss it in Theory or privately, whichever you prefer.
The first part I can only explain by "doublethink". Sometimes my illness has me holding onto two contradictory beliefs. For example, "Cyouni is trying to hunt scum so he must be town" while the paranoid part of my brain is screaming "He's coming after you, he must be scum!"
I know no one can clarify this, but my friends often get upset because everything in our friendship is going fine but the "doublethink" forces me to be paranoid about a certain slight that they might have against me that's causing them to hold a grudge against me. Read any game I have played with Manders. It eventually comes up that I'm paranoid that she is "holding a grudge" against me because of something I said or did in the past.
It's going on right now. I'm afraid to PM Manders because I'm paranoid she's upset with me for comments I made about her.
Having two different mindsets in the same post comes from believing in one thing so much that I take it on as "the truth", but then becoming obsessed with another idea that I totally forget it invalidates the other thing I believe to be true. My friends always have me evaluate the empirical evidence. I'll be distraught that my life is in shambles even though everything is going right.
I can give you an example from this very game. During your case against me there were a lot of players coming to my defense. But due to the constant pressure of everything I said or did to try to dissuade you, I kept digging myself into a deeper and deeper hole. Then when Poggy started in on me last night, I didn't evaluate that with my defenders it would be hard to get me to L-2. But I felt like the burden was on me so I claimed and I lashed back and attacked you. I was o uncomfortable about it that I couldn't fall asleep. So I got up and posted that "OOG" comment, which calmed me down enough so I could go to sleep.
Rationally, my back wasn't against the wall. But my paranoia had me feeling that it was time to claim.
Now this rings with the air of truth. Unvote. I don't need anyone to clarify it to be able to read truth off that.
It dings off of random stuff you've said in the game, which would be extremely hard to fake. (And if they can fake that, they should be doing something else with their talents.)
Well that's... interesting... i mean motivation on what exactly?
In other people's lists, that would be the equivalent of town.
I work based off motivation. That's the best way of describing it. By continually questioning people's posts, I attempt to track their mindset through the game. It generally works pretty well until I have to read someone who can hold conflicting beliefs without driving themselves crazy.
i can see that a bit from amistaria and am less keen on voting her. that vote does seem artificial as you put it what is making you so sure she is town?
i can see that a bit from amistaria and am less keen on voting her. that vote does seem artificial as you put it what is making you so sure she is town?
Translation of his last post: "Wait, what? Aang revealed who he is? I missed it!! Gotta know so we can kill him and win N1!"
Seriously.
Her thought process is fully organic (townish), but is also a knee-jerk reaction (bad vote); both mafia as well as inexperienced and negligent townies are liable to make the post Arnnaria made, but MH read it and immediately assumed that it came from a scum mindset. Overall, the vote is a null tell.
In general, the rest of her posts have been obvtown, so I have no interest in pursuing her lynch.
Who is "amistaria"? I know it's not always good logic, but Arnnaria sounds really genuine. Something I've been working on for a while is looking for the emotions and overarching attitudes behind people's actions. Sometimes it compliments behavioral analysis and occasionally it's far more effective. I guess this is basically the same thing that Cyouni is talking about. On that basis, Arnnaria isn't 100% cleared (almost no one ever is), but that feels town.
Edit before posting: I guess amistaria was supposed to be Arnnaria. Yeah, he's likely town at this point.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
mafia is a vindictive witch hunt
Yes, and I've been lynched before. But at least those times people haven't attacked me over and over again for a mental gaffe. I'm not going to go OOG here, because I know it's frowned upon, but having a mental gaffes is fairly common for me. It just feels like him attacking my gaffe over and over is him attacking my condition and him attacking me.
although your claim will have me unvote vote manders for now.
you did say your ability doesnt make sense to you currently which i find dubious in combination with your claimed ability
I have three abilities. Two make sense. One doesn't make any sense to me/I don't know how I'd even use it effectively.
If I say anymore, I'll piss Dragonheart off.
Saying that, Dragon is raising a real good point here. He is letting info slide out like crazy. While it is bad play, letting info slip is usually bad TOWN play. If he is somehow scum, the real vig will most likely take care of him without even speaking up, or he will be copped at the first available opportunity.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
There's poking holes in people's logic and there's belittling them. The first, I can handle. But I can't take the condescending attitudes much longer.
You claimed to hold the belief that "Aang needs to be alive to win" and "Aang doesn't need to be alive to win" in the same post (#14). You claim I have buddies, which makes me scum, yet try to convince me that you're town - something you'd only do if you believed me to be town, as well as using lines like "I know you think I'm scum".
For you to be town makes absolutely no sense.
No, making a newb mistake is no scummy. No, having a mental gaffe is not scummy. It's the mindset behind it that is, which led you to lie about knowing the win conditions in order to cover your overreaction.
And for the record, OOG stuff like that is meta, and is perfectly fine.
Then OOG: I'm bipolar/schizophrenic. Sometimes I have lapses in memory when I'm stressed, which I was due to it being Finals week. I need to go to bed now. I'll address any questions in the morning.
I still feel that Tanarin has behaved more scummy than Arnnaria this game, but Tanarin's last post sounds fairly town.
Tanarin (4): AsianInvasion, Dragonheart91, Artifice 101, Arnnaria
Arnnaria (2): Cyouni, MandersHex
AsianInvasion (2): Wrath_of_DoG, Tanarin
MandersHex (2): pinkfloyd, poggydude
Not Voting (2): Sepiriel, MzztrTetris
With 12 alive, it is 7 to lynch, 6 to no-lynch, or 6 to move to Evening.
You have until June 3 @ 7 AM EST to PM your actions to me, which is in 8 days and 4 hours . You may change your actions at any time.
Sepiriel replaces GrickyTimmick.
My intention was to state that your arguments against Arnnaria only made sense if one were to squint and look at them sideways.
OK.
Could you be riding that fence any harder?
Why not?
Laughable given the segments quoted above.
At least he claimed an easily confirmable role. But still...
What is it with you going after MandersHex this game? I really don't get it.
He's fence-sitting on Arnnaria's alignment, just like Wrath_of_DoG. I don't see how that is at all townish.
@Arnnaria: I would be OK with you shooting either Tanarin or WoD at some point in the game. They've managed to (weakly) link themselves in both directions and are more than willing to attack me for a mass-claim I never condoned but are somehow unable to pin down their opinions on other players.
1. Push on Mander's for the 'lurking' is ridiculous, specially since she had explained she would be indisposed prior to Role PM's even being made, i see her post as a simple "Well since i can only post this much lets try some fun and see if i can get achievements!"
2. On Arnnaria, i see his meltdown as a townie meltdown, a scum would be doing much more flailing, while his replies are inconsistent they are still consistent in that, he has not tried to alter the explanations to far which is a much more likely action from a town blunder mindset.
One thing to note, i immediately disliked Poggy for the way he is pushing this, if you notice Cy began the case and while it was a sturdy case in itself Poggy jumped on it and completely took for himself BUT never once made it personal every single time he pushed Arn it was always "well Cy's post shows you are lying" and "Cy showed how that was illogical" he has always been pushing the case while making sure ALL credit, both good and bad, be sure to fall squarely on Cy, don't like it at all.
(Mini RVS since i didnt get one: Poggy Inquiring Minds want to know: Is the moon made of cheese? and what is the latest spirit fashion?)
3. I am in favor of doing a Move to Evening vote today, we would get the Ability results and 10-12 days to review them as well as our reads on players, i am not in agreement with a No Lynch Vote nore do i want to Vote during Morning. Mass Claim i cant objectively talk about because im biased due to my history of heavy flavor gaming.
4. I promise i will try to keep the Tunneling to a minimum.
5. Depending on Aang staying alive is just not an option early game, we have to play with the mindset that the Scum has one condition fulfilled already.
6. Any questions?
What are your thoughts on Tanaris?
Dont particularly like him, right now i got no evidence but gut has me feeling he is a very strong candidate for my scum list.
Seeing as how that's 3 of 12 people? Yeah. I really do.
Nice pot shot there at the end. What does it matter when I respond as long as I do?
I know, but I still want him to answer it. Which he hasn't done.
I'll forever be impressed with you from Normalville Mafia.
If you are town, that is your epic mistake. It came across incredibly bloodthirsty, and I can't just throw that away.
Oh, ****. I didn't even think of that.
I'll have to do it on another game, then. Lame, but at least it was pointed out sooner rather than later.
Do you remember what happened the last time you voted me for an opportunistic post?
Think about that.
Joking, I know, but don't even think about flavor gaming this game.
That's a ridiculous reason to think I am town.
I don't believe you wouldn't have asked Seppel for clarifications. I don't believe that one bit.
How can you possibly think we're both scum?
What is your definition of lurking?
Why was it terrible?
To be fair, it's not that I'm posting from work. I have reliable internet at home now, so when I post, it's when I'm home. But, with work, family/friends, and sleep, I don't have a lot of time with which to spend posting.
You should answer my question. That'd be lovely.
I doubt this game is actually more difficult than STMUII.
Unvote Vote: poggydude
His shameless barning of Cyouni pinged my scumdar, but now Arnnaria's claimed and he didn't unvote? We have no reason to doubt Arnnaria's claim and all the reason in the world to give him a chance to confirm himself. poggy deserves pressure.
Now to catch up on what was posted while I slept/played Magic last night.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
Dude, chill out. It's not the end of the world.
I like how you toss me into there when you discarded my statements with, "But you won't respond for 36 hours."
No, I'd actually like to see an answer to this myself. Don't just brush it off.
No one's attacking YOU, ARNNARIA, THE MAN BEHIND THE SCREENNAME or your condition. Stop taking everything so personally.
Hell, bet you anything Cyouni didn't even know you HAD a condition.
Why did you wait so long to unvote him?
If you have not already, ask Seppel.
No one's belittling you. Stop taking it so personal!!
Welcome.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
I pushed a case on manders, she was scum, we lost.
It was amistaria 2
This is the only breadcrumb to the ability I made.
One of my abilities is a vig kill. I can use it X times.
However, when I use it, the Town DOES NOT get to find out the alignment of the player I got rid of.
When would this ever be pratical? It seems like I could royally miss and cost the game for all of us but we'd never know it.
Hecatea, poggy. You voted me for an opportunistic vote. How'd that turn out for you?
HOW IS IT A BREADCRUMB?
That is the question you should be answering.
Did I ask you to spew more information about your role?
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
I have some comments to make on your latest wall post i'll get to that now i suppose
Asian: The Vig should do X, Y, and Z.
Me: Why should the vig do those things?
Asian: Explanation.
Me: Makes sense. But I'm really confused about my role.
that vote was really bad and you even agreed. She had strong intentions to lurk(the second is no longer true which means i will be able to analyze more)
you dont think that bad vote makes her scum, i do. Why are you so unwilling to understand that/why are you so aggresively hopping to her aid?
i always take a while to move my vote, you know this, just reread STV for examples of this.
It also took a while for it to sink in that falseclaim vigs generally just get shot by the real vig(although this usually works best in basics). This is something i forget way to often.
"Hey looke at me! I'm being helpful!" (but not really)
so arnaria is lying?
So aranaria is telling the truth? :/
I shamelessly barned cyounis case because there is virtually nothing to add. The case was very specific and revolved around one detail, there is pretty much no way to agree with it without just barning it.
I deserve no such thing
Can you care to the explain the...
"I want a full claim from you bro."
and then the...
"Bro, why did you just full claim?"
You didn't say this?
And then this, after I did what you requested?
Potentially. Or potentially not. I have a theory about the different Bendings.
What do you guys think? Should a Janitor Vigilante shoot?
Your reactions to that declaration have solidified my opinion. There were other factors involved, but I had a good feeling (and rightly so) that you would respond appropriately to that statement. Call it reaction-testing.
She is obvtown. Her scum game is diametrically opposite to her town game.
Only in LyLo or a clear-cut counterclaim/investigation situation that forces a dichotomy between two players (after one of those players flips town, ofc).
Pressure is good
Wow, I didn't even notice you were in the game tezz. What do you think of the current wagons?
What's this list?
That was a terrible breadcrumb Arnn
LOL
Hmm. I guess we can't until one of the situations I outlined pops up. It's a pretty elaborate false claim if that's what it is, and I really haven't read him as scum at any point in the game. Inexperienced, confused, and bad at paying attention, but not scum.
Shooting blind just seems terrible given the tight nature of the game.
Yes. Please stop posting.
That said, the OP needs to be updated.
Sorry, you have been replaced. PM sent.
The Janitor Vig shot is just one of my powers.
Not sure how that affects the scenario, but I'll take it into consideration.
Explain how that affect a) the fact that you claimed to have two different mindsets on the same post and b) the fact that you called me scum (having buddies - with daytalk, no less) just yesterday yet are treating me as though I'm town.
True.
I still have no idea why you're impressed with that.
Why do you use this as a defense? That pretty much reads "remember the last time you voted me for something scummy and I was town?"
Don't take that bet unless you're up for losing it.
Correction: you said something to the effect of "but that only applies if the vig has a normal role. I don't really understand my role." What you said only is true if someone's cherry-picking the sentence.
That's not a breadcrumb.
I can think of very few scenarios in which the claimed ability should be used, most of which are advantageous to scum.
That's the issue. That part can almost never be confirmed.
@pinkfloyd: In order: People whose motivations I'm not going to question for now, people I'm meh about, people who need to post more, person I'm interested in question, person who is very probably scum.
I know no one can clarify this, but my friends often get upset because everything in our friendship is going fine but the "doublethink" forces me to be paranoid about a certain slight that they might have against me that's causing them to hold a grudge against me. Read any game I have played with Manders. It eventually comes up that I'm paranoid that she is "holding a grudge" against me because of something I said or did in the past.
It's going on right now. I'm afraid to PM Manders because I'm paranoid she's upset with me for comments I made about her.
Having two different mindsets in the same post comes from believing in one thing so much that I take it on as "the truth", but then becoming obsessed with another idea that I totally forget it invalidates the other thing I believe to be true. My friends always have me evaluate the empirical evidence. I'll be distraught that my life is in shambles even though everything is going right.
I can give you an example from this very game. During your case against me there were a lot of players coming to my defense. But due to the constant pressure of everything I said or did to try to dissuade you, I kept digging myself into a deeper and deeper hole. Then when Poggy started in on me last night, I didn't evaluate that with my defenders it would be hard to get me to L-2. But I felt like the burden was on me so I claimed and I lashed back and attacked you. I was o uncomfortable about it that I couldn't fall asleep. So I got up and posted that "OOG" comment, which calmed me down enough so I could go to sleep.
Rationally, my back wasn't against the wall. But my paranoia had me feeling that it was time to claim.
Well that's... interesting... i mean motivation on what exactly?
1. You are so obvtown that it hurts.
2. Forum Mafia might not be the game for you.
Seriously
how would you sum up manders scum game succintly?
Yeah I know it isn't the best hobby for me in the world, but it forces me to interact with others who don't agree with me and that actually helps me in "real life". Trust me, I've come a long way from where I was before and at it's often therapeutic for me. That being said, I think I need to stick to Basics for a bit longer.
Artificial, like a piece of plastic. On the flip side, her town game is much like her natural posting style, generally amiable and highly interactive.
My point is that if Mafia is causing you negative side-effects IRL, it may not be healthy to continue playing. This is rather OoG, so perhaps we should discuss it in Theory or privately, whichever you prefer.
It dings off of random stuff you've said in the game, which would be extremely hard to fake. (And if they can fake that, they should be doing something else with their talents.)
Time to get reading again.
In other people's lists, that would be the equivalent of town.
I work based off motivation. That's the best way of describing it. By continually questioning people's posts, I attempt to track their mindset through the game. It generally works pretty well until I have to read someone who can hold conflicting beliefs without driving themselves crazy.
For reference: Her thought process is fully organic (townish), but is also a knee-jerk reaction (bad vote); both mafia as well as inexperienced and negligent townies are liable to make the post Arnnaria made, but MH read it and immediately assumed that it came from a scum mindset. Overall, the vote is a null tell.
In general, the rest of her posts have been obvtown, so I have no interest in pursuing her lynch.
Edit before posting: I guess amistaria was supposed to be Arnnaria. Yeah, he's likely town at this point.