I'm down with bussing when needed, but he represented two members of my scum team, and an 18% swing in voting power on the final phase. I did feel kind of bad about how hard I buddied him, but it turned out well.
Do you think the correct play would have been to abandon him when he claimed Bloodbender and went to L-1? I was well positioned at that point to potentially survive. (And with the extra players leaving the game, it would have been down to only two lynches I had to survive by my math. Of course I didn't know that at the time.)
You might have been able to get away with the first Day's, but after that was probably too much.
It's also the way you were going at it. As I recall, you said something to the effect of "mislynching the Reviver is pretty much an auto town loss", which was a bit heavy-handed, carrying the impression of fearmongering. I suspect things like that were the main trigger. I got the impression you were pretty much willing to do anything to ensure that Zionite survived.
You think that wouldn't have turned heads?? And what I'm saying is I CHOSE NOT TO. Your continued tunnel on me is noted and dismissed.
So, essentially, you think you'd have been able to get people to trust you above themselves by pulling OOG stuff. Not. Freaking. Likely.
Hell, there was already enough people willing to lynch Zionite - the terrible lynch of Wheat_Grinder prevented that. Zionite would have been lynched after Combat if that hadn't happened.
Also, I can't believe you are giving me "guff" when I am SAYING I DIDN'T do what I could have. Seriously, man. I am doing what has been asked of me, and I'm damned either way?? Whatever.
I'm only giving you "guff" because you're complaining that not being able to use OOG factors is a reason for the loss. No, the loss was due to the fact that every single lynch this game was terrible, which was because people were blindly following the person they were arguing as scum, including you.
You trying to mask that as "we lost because I wasn't allowed to pull OOG stuff" is just ridiculous, and the reason why I'm giving you "guff".
I would also like to request that some serious discussion be had about the replacement situation in this game. TBH, I'm mad that pinkfloyd is even posting here, since he replaced out as scum getting ready to be lynched. He did not win this game because he was no longer in it. Plus the other players replacing was a constant disruption.
Unfortunately, this community doesn't seem to take replacement issues too seriously.
Quote from Artifice 101 »
Also, Iso, you cannot cannot cannot(!) actually claim your Vig target and tunnel so hard.
It worked in Homestuck. But now I know.
Quote from Artifice 101 »
Man, your Day 1 behavior was horrible, and your LyLo vote was worse. Like, Godzilla worse...
There was nothing wrong with my behavior - it was my reads that were all wonky. However, I can accurately say that your meta reads were waaay the hell off.
Quote from Artifice 101 »
And yeah, this game was crazy. Seppel, I feel like you need to change the templating of your role PMs because I was confused as to how my ability worked. Did anyone else have this problem? Also, were we ever notified as to when the gamestate changed in the thread? The Full Moon thing is what I'm asking about. And the town wincon said "those loyal to the Firelord" but the way that is phrased, the Firelord himself is presumed to not be in the game.:-/
I just claimed what was in my role PM because there was no way to paraphrase. And Seppel said he would be lenient about it IN THE SCUMCHAT, but I'm sure he would have mentioned it was fine if any of us bothered asking. As for the Full Moon, the only reason we knew about that was because someone checked the OP - I would have liked to have been informed of it at the start of the Morning/Evening (whenever it was). Do agree about Ozai, though.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
To be fair, Seppel updated the main post with his leniency on claiming, and I pointed it out when he did so. I wanted to make sure no one got surprised because Seppel only said something in the scumchat. (And I wanted to earn town points for being helpful.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
And yeah, on a purely constructive criticism level (@Seppel: :heart:) I feel as thought he scum team had way, way too much knowledge before we admittedly gave them the rest.
I mean how did the scum (all three starting players, including Hitman) lose anything via massclaim? The town lost a ton, but the scum? I'm not seeing it. I know we were warned to play tight and such, but to be this breakable by the scum under mass claim seems "under reviewed" for lack of a better way of putting it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
I was kind of appalled by the level of false-claims we got personally. I didn't believe false-claims were a real thing before that. (And I still don't like them.) I do agree with their use here, because they scum absolutely had to protect Zionite and the Katara claim was fantastic for that. Otherwise the two-man scum team might have folded to simple bad/unlucky claim-creation.
I feel like false-claims shouldn't normally be given though. Part of a scum's skill should be properly mod-gaming and figuring out what characters are in the game so that they can pick a safe but realistic claim to use.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
You aren't wrong, but off the top of my head, I think you guys needed to be given maybe one false safe claim because this is a flavor-specific game. This would have been your negative consequence for an early mass claim.
But three, for a two man mafia team? With safe role PM information and the impunity to know you wouldn't be Modkilled for posting it? Maybe I'm forgetting, but I don't think we as town were given that^^ info.
This lead to Zionite being able to pull his gambit-within-a-gambit, due to all the info he had.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
It was my gambit dang it. Zionite did it, but I planned it.
Nice. That would be the other vibe I got. He was too well informed too quickly. That's become null for me, though, since mislynching Archonoid in Grim Batol
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Actually, Zionite was well informed because he was reading along. His first post in the scum chat was that he already had read the game and didn't need to waste time on catch-up. Then he composed his long catch-up post as a ruse.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
I would also like to request that some serious discussion be had about the replacement situation in this game. TBH, I'm mad that pinkfloyd is even posting here, since he replaced out as scum getting ready to be lynched. He did not win this game because he was no longer in it. Plus the other players replacing was a constant disruption.
You are mad I'm posting here? Why?
I did play the majority of the game and have the right to post. I was sick for 3 days and got replaced. Its winter here and colds are everywhere.
And there was no suspicion on me until it looked like I was lurking (I was actually sick, I never lurk)
If you want to have me blacklisted go talk to the council
I think it's more an issue of the mass-replacing happening everywhere. I mean look at the sheer number of replacements that happened in this game. At one point I got confused who was who and which players replaced which roles. The only thing that kept me sane was my notes.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
And yeah, on a purely constructive criticism level (@Seppel: :heart:) I feel as thought he scum team had way, way too much knowledge before we admittedly gave them the rest.
I will definitely take that into consideration. Thanks!
I mean how did the scum (all three starting players, including Hitman) lose anything via massclaim? The town lost a ton, but the scum? I'm not seeing it. I know we were warned to play tight and such, but to be this breakable by the scum under mass claim seems "under reviewed" for lack of a better way of putting it.
I'm still trying to discover a way for players to depend on behavioral analysis and not night action results. Even Triskelion Mafia, which had two one-shot abilities (one-shot untargetable on town and one-shot rolecop on scum) plus a mafia kill, came down to players trusting night actions over behavioral analysis.
I forgot to say anything about it earlier, but I think I had mentioned when I replaced in that I was working on a way to read Iso. I think it'll work, but I need to learn to be objective with it. When I was lynched I became convinced it was AI, Iso, DH as scum, despite my reading technique stating Iso was probably town, pending his third ability.
And I tried to use them and people went to sleep on me.
This is not an excuse, it is true. Behaviorally, he was not himself and I chose to do what has been asked of me and it helped us lose. I'm not "trying" anything. I'm stating a fact.
That's utterly ridiculous. We all thought Zionite was scum even without that. Not lynching him was just poor play all around.
Also depending on what OoG stuff you used, I probably would've lynched you on policy.
Now if only I can learn to play as town some day, then I'll truly be a mafia player to be reckoned with.
Just look at the motivations for performing a certain action. That's the best advice I've ever received on it.
Other than that, just figure out your strengths in mafia and focus on them. For example, I am generally good at figuring out the mafia at the end of a game, but not at the start. Thus, my goal is to last as long as possible, until the mafia become obvious. Watch for things you are good at.
I forgot to say anything about it earlier, but I think I had mentioned when I replaced in that I was working on a way to read Iso. I think it'll work, but I need to learn to be objective with it. When I was lynched I became convinced it was AI, Iso, DH as scum, despite my reading technique stating Iso was probably town, pending his third ability.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It's also the way you were going at it. As I recall, you said something to the effect of "mislynching the Reviver is pretty much an auto town loss", which was a bit heavy-handed, carrying the impression of fearmongering. I suspect things like that were the main trigger. I got the impression you were pretty much willing to do anything to ensure that Zionite survived.
So, essentially, you think you'd have been able to get people to trust you above themselves by pulling OOG stuff. Not. Freaking. Likely.
Hell, there was already enough people willing to lynch Zionite - the terrible lynch of Wheat_Grinder prevented that. Zionite would have been lynched after Combat if that hadn't happened.
I'm only giving you "guff" because you're complaining that not being able to use OOG factors is a reason for the loss. No, the loss was due to the fact that every single lynch this game was terrible, which was because people were blindly following the person they were arguing as scum, including you.
You trying to mask that as "we lost because I wasn't allowed to pull OOG stuff" is just ridiculous, and the reason why I'm giving you "guff".
I am stating a fact. Your turn of phrase to misrep what I am doing yet again is telling.
And again, I didn't do it. Please stop condemning me for what I chose not to do.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Unfortunately, this community doesn't seem to take replacement issues too seriously.
It worked in Homestuck. But now I know.
There was nothing wrong with my behavior - it was my reads that were all wonky. However, I can accurately say that your meta reads were waaay the hell off.
I just claimed what was in my role PM because there was no way to paraphrase. And Seppel said he would be lenient about it IN THE SCUMCHAT, but I'm sure he would have mentioned it was fine if any of us bothered asking. As for the Full Moon, the only reason we knew about that was because someone checked the OP - I would have liked to have been informed of it at the start of the Morning/Evening (whenever it was). Do agree about Ozai, though.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
And yeah, on a purely constructive criticism level (@Seppel: :heart:) I feel as thought he scum team had way, way too much knowledge before we admittedly gave them the rest.
I mean how did the scum (all three starting players, including Hitman) lose anything via massclaim? The town lost a ton, but the scum? I'm not seeing it. I know we were warned to play tight and such, but to be this breakable by the scum under mass claim seems "under reviewed" for lack of a better way of putting it.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
I feel like false-claims shouldn't normally be given though. Part of a scum's skill should be properly mod-gaming and figuring out what characters are in the game so that they can pick a safe but realistic claim to use.
But three, for a two man mafia team? With safe role PM information and the impunity to know you wouldn't be Modkilled for posting it? Maybe I'm forgetting, but I don't think we as town were given that^^ info.
This lead to Zionite being able to pull his gambit-within-a-gambit, due to all the info he had.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
You are mad I'm posting here? Why?
I did play the majority of the game and have the right to post. I was sick for 3 days and got replaced. Its winter here and colds are everywhere.
And there was no suspicion on me until it looked like I was lurking (I was actually sick, I never lurk)
If you want to have me blacklisted go talk to the council
LOL
I will definitely take that into consideration. Thanks!
I'm still trying to discover a way for players to depend on behavioral analysis and not night action results. Even Triskelion Mafia, which had two one-shot abilities (one-shot untargetable on town and one-shot rolecop on scum) plus a mafia kill, came down to players trusting night actions over behavioral analysis.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
That's utterly ridiculous. We all thought Zionite was scum even without that. Not lynching him was just poor play all around.
Also depending on what OoG stuff you used, I probably would've lynched you on policy.
Just look at the motivations for performing a certain action. That's the best advice I've ever received on it.
Other than that, just figure out your strengths in mafia and focus on them. For example, I am generally good at figuring out the mafia at the end of a game, but not at the start. Thus, my goal is to last as long as possible, until the mafia become obvious. Watch for things you are good at.
What did my third ability have to do with it?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I ain't telling until I catch you once.
I remember hearing it from Iso lol.