kpaca was a one-man wrecking ball. I'm glad I was on the right side of the carnage. Great job, buddy.
Thanks for the awesome flavor, zindabad! Too bad I was targeted by the one kill I couldn't prevent. We also still have no idea why Void didn't end Day Two prior to getting Daykilled. kpaca even used a codeword (:kank:) and everything.
I just wasn't paying enough attention at that point. When I came and say the DK I was like "OMG WTF have I done?" I thought for sure that Kpaca's gambit would fail because of it. So happy it didn't.
Honestly, I will say I got a little lost in the flavor for a while when real-life got in the way. That was the primary reason I didn't immediately counter-claim iLord when the mistake surfaced. That was a definite blown opportunity, and i got stuck playing off the back foot trying to get out from underneath it. Lessons learned.
Re: the claim thing - I honestly wrote that off the top of my head, with no conscious decision one way or the other to use the "team" language. There was honestly no copying of the PM at all. Considering what I was up against at that point, I needed to have my claim come off as completely casual as possible. I was expecting to be able to ride the "Why would I be dumb enough to copy/paste a claim?" angle, because at the time it seemed so ridiculous that someonewould buy in to the contrary. Lesson learned.
Well played, Kpaca. I will say that I'm having a hard time letting go of what happened on my final night. This will sound like a bit of 'sore loser', but I often have a hard time believing you're a team player. Kinda feel like you threw me under the bus there because it guaranteed you an end-game appearance. If you made that NK, I don't think a thing changes, except the game ends sooner in our favor. As it is, I ended up getting handed to PM on a platter, despite protesting that it would happen.
I'd love for you to talk me down off this ledge.
But in any case, this game was completely incredible. Loved every minute of it.
Oh, DJ, another thing I thought was funny was the "Lets kill Niv, no one will look at his reads after he dies!" and the first thing we said when Niv died was, "Well, Niv DID suspect DJ..."
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Honestly, I will say I got a little lost in the flavor for a while when real-life got in the way. That was the primary reason I didn't immediately counter-claim iLord when the mistake surfaced. That was a definite blown opportunity, and i got stuck playing off the back foot trying to get out from underneath it. Lessons learned.
Re: the claim thing - I honestly wrote that off the top of my head, with no conscious decision one way or the other to use the "team" language. There was honestly no copying of the PM at all. Considering what I was up against at that point, I needed to have my claim come off as completely casual as possible. I was expecting to be able to ride the "Why would I be dumb enough to copy/paste a claim?" angle, because at the time it seemed so ridiculous that someonewould buy in to the contrary. Lesson learned.
Well played, Kpaca. I will say that I'm having a hard time letting go of what happened on my final night. This will sound like a bit of 'sore loser', but I often have a hard time believing you're a team player. Kinda feel like you threw me under the bus there because it guaranteed you an end-game appearance. If you made that NK, I don't think a thing changes, except the game ends sooner in our favor. As it is, I ended up getting handed to PM on a platter, despite protesting that it would happen.
I'd love for you to talk me down off this ledge.
But in any case, this game was completely incredible. Loved every minute of it.
--->DJ
You win when you finish ff the town, there isnt an award for winjing with as many teammates alive as possible. Not only do I think Im more likely to win in an endgame situation based off of sheer skill and maneuverability, but I have more town cred as well? Why would have me stick my neck out for no reason when pm is likely on to you anyway. Zindabad even noted this as proper play in his comments in his mod qt. if anyone is currently exhibiting poor team play its you, Im sorry I didnt ignore risk versus reward when trying to coordinate a late game team victory after being substanially down, and am deeply sorry you didnt get to play the whole game, it does suck you missed out.
Like seriously? You died and then I had PaleMage, probably the best player in this game, lynched because I said "lol math". Had I been dead could you have removed pm? Who would you have outlasted? You certainly had less town cred than everyone probably sans brinatoo.
@drey: so you died day one amd i won the game and yet you pretty much just criticized every move I did as something you would have argued against? Okay man.
I for one am satisfied we won. Thanks for hosting zinda, and special thanks to PaleMage, Xyre, ArchmageEternal, and djcatchem the mad guy. You guys made this game my favorite to date. AE, thanks for being such a good sport specifically, amd letting me call you a traffic cone.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Well, I'm disappointed, clearly. It sucks to make the wrong decision in end-game. Would've been nice to go out on a winning note, but alas...
Choosing between two cops, one of which hit scum, you have to consider whether one person is faking results, or one person had run a gambit. On the surface, you would expect kpaca to be skilled enough to run that gambit successfully (as he of course, did), but what really threw me was his brilliant killing of Xyre. That pretty much put me in his corner.
Reading through the scumchat, kpaca really impressed me with his intuition of the game state pretty much from the very beginning. Though it's unfortunate you think me such a big sheep, k-panini.
The PM lynch was pretty egregious, in my opinion. He handed DJC over on a silver platter - really not something scum would've done there. But again, that situation was expertly manipulated by kpaca, who used PM's math against him.
Yeah, in retrospect it was a rough lynch. To be fair, I pulled back, thanks to Xyre, and never actually had my vote in on his lynch. But handing over DJC is no less a crazy gambit than what kpaca did, and he pulled it out. I had no doubt that PM was capable of the same thing, but what kept eating at me was PM suggesting me as scum. It just felt off, and I was legitimately surprised that he could come to that conclusion with the information from the mason PMs.
@PM - Thank you for the great work you put forth in this game, it was much more enjoyable thanks to your analysis, as always. You're my vote for Town MVP, hands down. It was a pleasure to play with you these last several years.
Quote from Zindabad »
Thank you all for playing, and I hope you all had as much fun with this setup as I did. Thank you especially to people who complemented the flavor; this was pretty much my best work ever, and it makes me fuzzy inside to have it recognized. (I won't talk too much about it, since there is a sequel planned for this game. Expect to see more of Sidi, Umry, and Dina, as well as the fates of Voes, Yblisa, and the Word.)
Zinda, I'll say it again. This was a fantastic setup, quite well-balanced, and really a beautifully written story. I love the intricacies with the seasons and clock, even if it had a few quirks. You're certainly among the most original mods here and easily one of my favorites.
I wish I could play in the sequel, and who knows, maybe RL demands will be different come that time.
Everytime i win a game a good lot of you come in and say i was readable. I have a higher than usual scum win percantage. I think you all undervalue my ability to be unreadable within the flow of the game.
You won't hear me saying that. You're quite the expert manipulator, and other than my initial scum read in my 2nd post on you, it was lights out.
-----
@All - Thank you to this great community for 7 years of memories and thrilling text warfare. Though many of the faces have changed, it seems there are always new and unique players joining up, and that's encouraging to see. I've tried other mafia sites here and there, but for my money, MTGS is king of mafia, and it's no contest.
I've made some great friends here, including but certainly not limited to loran16, MandersHex, Xyre, DYH, and I think even Seppel, strangely enough
I'd especially like to thank anyone who played in one of my 3 games that I modded. I count those as among my most rewarding experiences in my adult life.
I may still pop in from time to time, but I think my family and work needs to take precedence right now.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from TheFooFish »
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
@All - Thank you to this great community for 7 years of memories and thrilling text warfare. Though many of the faces have changed, it seems there are always new and unique players joining up, and that's encouraging to see. I've tried other mafia sites here and there, but for my money, MTGS is king of mafia, and it's no contest.
I've made some great friends here, including but certainly not limited to loran16, MandersHex, Xyre, DYH, and I think even Seppel, strangely enough
I'd especially like to thank anyone who played in one of my 3 games that I modded. I count those as among my most rewarding experiences in my adult life.
I may still pop in from time to time, but I think my family and work needs to take precedence right now.
Cheers and best wishes. It has been a pleasure interacting with you while spectating Amnesia and elsewhere. Good luck in all you do!
==========================
While I'm on the subject of life circumstances, I would like to offer my deepest condolences to Brinatoo. Didn't think a PM was appropriate (ongoing game, AND why add more to his plate?). I want to personally thank him for his efforts here, as they were above and beyond my expectations given the circumstances. I hope all is peaceful and stable again for you as soon as humanly possible.
===========================
Lastly, on a lighter note, from the scum QT:
"Man, IT'D be sweet if WoD was empowered and shot both Iso and Arti. The town would founder the rest of the way." --DJ
I chuckled. Apparently this was the predictable? I did the best I could to force WoD's hand off the trigger. Apparently, it wasn't meant to be.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Not so much predictable as he said he was going to do that.
Given that I was right about his alignment and role, and my choice got him killed, eventually, I stand by the decision. DJ was lost in the shuffle and you were "confirmed through bussing", so I'll take what I can get.
Best case scenario, he shoots elsewhere knowing that exactly what happened would happen: people called him out on shooting me when I proved what I was and therefore confirmed I was town.
Worst case, he gets lynched/shot, confirming the actual Town Vig.
He chose the suicidal route, not that I gave him a ton of alternatives.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
I think you are really vastly overstating you importance/relavance here. Wods misplay wasnt in killing you and iso, that was a good move whether he was town, mafia, or other. His misplay was his behavior.
But yes you were totally intregal in everyones strategy.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Official Moderator of The [Gutter]
Think the MtgStaff is just swell? Join today! You too can be involved in an 8 year grudge and delete nearly 9000 of kpaca's posts!
I agree that WoD killing Artifice and myself was a huge impact on whether or not he got lynched. There was absolutely no reason a town Vig would have gunned for us at that juncture.
@Alpha: Sorry to see you go, but thanks for your efforts in the community - Amnesia Mafia, to this day, is still one of my favorite games I've ever played in.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Oh yeah, the PM lynch was awful, and I was very unhappy about it. Probably if I had given some more thought to it I would have come around to the notion that Brinatoo was too dumb (sorry to be blunt) to be a grand criminal mastermind, but then I probably would have turned on Alpha out of my own mistaken perception of the setup. So at least my death prevented a more, shall we say, unjust ending.
Too town? Haha, I show more effort as scum, unfortunately. And I'm sorry my real life problems have become my priority. If I had remembered that Wessel had caught kpaca in a lie, iirc, then Alpha might have had second thoughts.
Great flavor, I think I left off at day 6. Might go back and read it some day.
Zinda, I think you outlined how my role was genuinely frustrating. I believed for the longest time that kpaca was another cop because of how weak mine was. Oh well,
Also, I wanted to apologize to Pale Mage, for somewhat unwittingly instigating your lynch. I overthought the situation, clearly.
No apologies necessary! Such things happen in mafia.
Sorry to see you go...but what a game to go out on, eh? Couldn't ask for more. Best of luck to you in all your future endeavors, and don't be a stranger.
Really enjoyed this game, Zindabad. Fun roles and cool flavor. Glad I replaced in! (Doubly so since I couldn't replace into your last one when you really needed a couple of folks).
I'm back on hiatus for a while while I do other things (among them figuring out what this "Legacy" thing is in preparation for GP: Atl), but I'll be back playing eventually. I'll at least be poking my head in to read a couple of games.
I had a really long post typed up, then my laptop battery died.
Flavor & roles were awesome. Beat me with a stick if I don't /in Celestial, Zinda. IIRC, you said in WoW that this game (Seasons) would be your last, and I'm glad it's not. I'd also like to see the point values of the roles, unless I missed them. Found 'em. I loved the randomization concept. Also, the flavor was awesome.
I'm mad at myself for A) not starting this game, B) letting myself fall so far behind with known travel plans along the way, and C) not just taking the laptop to a legitimate repair guy, which wound up being a <1 day fix (frame keeping the DC jack in place was busted, which just needed hot glue and hard plastic to reinforce). I'm really sorry/regretful for replacing out, but at the time I thought it was best for the gamestate.
Kpaca's notes on the gamestate in the scumchat should be required reading, and the gambit fooled me just as badly as anyone else. Sorry you're dipping out, but I'm glad I got the chance to play in another game (kinda) with you. Same with AlphaI.
PM, you still inexplicably scare the crap out of me. I'll be prepping for GP:ATL as well (living in FL, it'll be my 3rd time there for a GP), best of luck.
Zinda, I deleted the PM (I like keeping a tidy inbox), but didn't you tell me I would receive the target of Winds of Change's role PM? I assumed I would get something to the extent of (if targeting mafia) "You are MAFIA, with (REDACTED), ____, ____, etc." left in there. That's why I was so confident that it would be a one-shot cop.
Congrats to the scum team. Games like this show why Zinda is the best game moderator on the site at current.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Let me preface this by again thanking you all for the compliments. This was a successful game, much more so than Grim Batol, and I'm glad I was able to bring it to you.
zindabad, I do have a question: Why did Akaramol's and Indazeel's roles interact the way they did? I had no indication in either role PM that Akaramol would be able to bypass "Out of Sync".
It's in the role notes in Akaramol's role PM (see the setup posted at the end.) Nothing can stop that ability. I figured that if it did something as fundamental as swapping role PMs, mere abilities shouldn't affect it.
I still disagree with the various little bits in the setup. I think there were so many moving pieces behind the randomization and Reaper effects that there was no way the town would ever not be confused. I'm not a fan of role randomization generally, since it doesn't really address players' choices to lie about their roles (unless the game is Smalltown), but once you combine the clock, the masons, the Reaper effects... people are guaranteed to talk about the setup, whether you like it or not. The way to do it instead is to reduce the benefits from talking about the setup.
Think of this game (like most setups) as an elevator. When you enter the elevator, you know what is expected of you. You press the button and the elevator takes you where you want to go. Do we really know how elevators work? (Well, some people do. You know what I'm getting at here.)
The button was the Clock and the abilities that affected it. You knew how to work the Clock, the information was made public, there were no surprises (unlike Grim Batol's mechanics, which is one of the problems I identified with that game that I set out to fix here.)
The randomization, Reaper abilities (which never had any impact on the game), etc. are what was happening "behind the scenes" to make the elevator take you where you want to go. Most people don't need to know about pulleys and whatever else makes the elevator work - God knows I have no idea - and in the end, if they work as they should (and they did in this game, in my opinion), nobody is worse off for not understanding them.
In the end, the best player won, so it's hard to argue with the outcome that much, but it was rather frustrating at the time to perceive (correctly or not) that the mod wasn't being entirely forward about the rules.
I'm still not sure exactly what rule I wasn't being forward about. Randomization? I guess the masons were a little bit non-random. In future games I will probably continue to employ this system, but without any pre-defined alignments (like the masons) except perhaps a neutral.
I feel as though one sentence and a bunch of scary good play (the Cop gambit) did the town in: "Results received this way are guaranteed to be sane." This sentence, which should be the default setting for Cops in anything but Specialties and deliberately labelled "Bastard Games", made Brinatoo incapable of fully counterclaiming kpaca. Unfortunate.
I would think nothing of putting one bastard role in a specialty game and not advertising it as a bastard game. I saw putting that caveat in Brinatoo's role as a bonus to him, since it was such a weak role, I wanted to make clear that he would have no cause to doubt whatever results he did get.
Everytime i win a game a good lot of you come in and say i was readable. I have a higher than usual scum win percantage. I think you all undervalue my ability to be unreadable within the flow of the game.
I hope you didn't take my comments about your usual scum play as some kind of slight on you. You were fantastic and probably one of two or three players in this site's history with the ability to carry off the win you did. I just feel that perhaps the town could've pressured you a little more on your claim, for example - the mysterious "autumn tracker" ability was never even questioned.
Many of you asked about this over the course of the game. I don't use spectator forums because I just see them as potential information leaks. Of course nobody (or almost nobody) intends to leak information, but accidents can happens, subtleties can be interpreted variously, and it's just better in general if nobody but me and my reviewer knows anything about the setup until all is said and done.
@All - Thank you to this great community for 7 years of memories and thrilling text warfare. Though many of the faces have changed, it seems there are always new and unique players joining up, and that's encouraging to see. I've tried other mafia sites here and there, but for my money, MTGS is king of mafia, and it's no contest.
I've made some great friends here, including but certainly not limited to loran16, MandersHex, Xyre, DYH, and I think even Seppel, strangely enough
I'd especially like to thank anyone who played in one of my 3 games that I modded. I count those as among my most rewarding experiences in my adult life.
I may still pop in from time to time, but I think my family and work needs to take precedence right now.
I'll miss you. I wish I had played in Amnesia as that seemed like a good time. It'll take forever for Celestial to roll around so hopefully you're raring to go by then. Best wishes.
Zinda, I deleted the PM (I like keeping a tidy inbox), but didn't you tell me I would receive the target of Winds of Change's role PM? I assumed I would get something to the extent of (if targeting mafia) "You are MAFIA, with (REDACTED), ____, ____, etc." left in there. That's why I was so confident that it would be a one-shot cop.
None of the role PMs included anything about being town or mafia - that was in the Mafia group PM. So it wouldn't have got you any of that information. That was intentional.
Honestly, I will say I got a little lost in the flavor for a while when real-life got in the way. That was the primary reason I didn't immediately counter-claim iLord when the mistake surfaced. That was a definite blown opportunity, and i got stuck playing off the back foot trying to get out from underneath it. Lessons learned.
Actually I don't think you should have CC him, the fact his flavor was wrong certainly was a point for his mislynch and you wanted that to happen. What I think you should not have done is to claim his opposite, I would have fakeclaimed something else, maybe elemental of metal.
Well played, Kpaca. I will say that I'm having a hard time letting go of what happened on my final night. This will sound like a bit of 'sore loser', but I often have a hard time believing you're a team player. Kinda feel like you threw me under the bus there because it guaranteed you an end-game appearance. If you made that NK, I don't think a thing changes, except the game ends sooner in our favor. As it is, I ended up getting handed to PM on a platter, despite protesting that it would happen.
I'd love for you to talk me down off this ledge.
I know this feeling, I got the same one when the whole scumteam bussed me into oblivion on FF mafia. But you talk with perfect knowledge, back there we didn't know PM had a roleblock, neither that he would point that to you. While I think Kpaca did a lot of things wrong on this game this one was right, he was the team's best bet into victory, you as the last representative of the team should've protected him with your life if it was necessary. (And it was)
Oh, DJ, another thing I thought was funny was the "Lets kill Niv, no one will look at his reads after he dies!" and the first thing we said when Niv died was, "Well, Niv DID suspect DJ..."
Yeah, but DJ rules and got away from that just fine (he even outlived you). I seriously love this guy in a heterosexual way.
I think you are really vastly overstating you importance/relavance here. Wods misplay wasnt in killing you and iso, that was a good move whether he was town, mafia, or other. His misplay was his behavior.
But yes you were totally intregal in everyones strategy.
I completely disagree. WOD killing Iso and Artifice just proved he was anti-town. After all that had happened so far, there's no way Iso was scum before IB, I could see a vig shooting Artifice though. But there's no way WOD would live much longer anyway, he was doomed from the start.
@Alpha I'm seriously unhappy that you are leaving us, If that's worth something I think you are one heck of a player and mod. It's really unfortunate that I probably won't be playing an Alpha's game and/or playing with you. I hope you reconsider it! And I don't think you are a sheep, in fact I think you were awesome in not shooting AE despite all the pressure, shooting him before Brin was certainly wrong at that point and you did the right thing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Please drey, I really want to hear how I did things wrong in this game. Like this is the main reason im stepping away from the game, people convinced they are correct even though they havnt done anything to validate these opinions gameplay wise and furthr ore are convinced they are right DESPITE evidence to the contrary. So please, tell me how I did a lot of things wrong in this game oh great scum theorist drey, because i would honestly love to hear it.
Lead a comeback win against the odds via ingenuity and manipulation. Get told you play bad. What is this bizarro world?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Official Moderator of The [Gutter]
Think the MtgStaff is just swell? Join today! You too can be involved in an 8 year grudge and delete nearly 9000 of kpaca's posts!
Zinda, the problem with your metaphor is not one of function but presentation. If you had said "most but not all the roles in this game were randomly distributed," we'd immediately understand what you meant by that and could play accordingly. But when you just say "roles are distributed randomly," the uncertainty implicit in that statement (especially considering the implementation in this game) made it harder for the town to judge claims for no good reason. Offsetting mod-gaming is good, but the implementation here only created an impetus for more mod-gaming in its place, because of the uncertainty therein.
To tie it back to the metaphor... how about this: it's the difference between "the wires go through a series of winches that pull the elevator up and down" and "the elevator moves up and down." Functionally, we don't really know more about the elevator from either, but at least we can be assured it isn't magic - we have less doubt.
If I was scum with Kpaca I would have been mad for a bit. Just for the fact that I'd want to play. But after the fact I'd notch a W in my stats column and say good job, way to pull it out......Lucky bastard.;)
Please drey, I really want to hear how I did things wrong in this game. Like this is the main reason im stepping away from the game, people convinced they are correct even though they havnt done anything to validate these opinions gameplay wise and furthr ore are convinced they are right DESPITE evidence to the contrary. So please, tell me how I did a lot of things wrong in this game oh great scum theorist drey, because i would honestly love to hear it.
Lead a comeback win against the odds via ingenuity and manipulation. Get told you play bad. What is this bizarro world?
Thanks for answering to me, actually the post game discussion is what I like more about mafia, I respect your opinions and want to discuss them to validate against my own. But I never said you played badly or I would have done better overall. I was lynched D1 and you endgamed and won, there's some things I would have done differently and I want your input why you did that.
claiming guilty on Void after AI death and Brinatoo claim
I liked the cop plan you and the team had on night, I think it was a good idea and this game really had a big chance of not having a real cop. But when the day started things had changed. AI had died, Brin claimed cop. From this position I would not have proceeded with the original plan. If Brin had somehow died before endgame (WOD/Alpha could have shot him for example), I think we would have lost it, because you claim would get considerably weaker.
claiming Xyre was town and not AE
AE was your main "suspect", if you had claimed you investigated him, and killed Alpha, Brin would not be sure you were scum. An endgame of Xyre, Kpaca and Brin could be better because both Xyre and Brin could have voted each other.
killing Tezz
I have no idea why you and DJ killed Tezz, I think he had already claimed a weak power role and he certainly wasn't playing very well. I would have killed Wessel or PM much earlier. Tezz was lynchbait.
Not really thinking about your claim
It's was apparent you haven't really thought about the math and exactly how your claim would go (for example, why AE couldn't target you). When people started asking you details I really thought you would be a goner because you couldn't give them straight answers. But you fooled them after all.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I think this is largely due to the fact that at least half of the players decided that when I claimed, I was lying about my ability.
That stems from the fact that you are very bad at appearing town when you are actually town which is also part of the problem with your deliberate playstyle of "appearing just scummy enough not to get Nightkilled" which is clever but very unreliable. It makes you very unconvincing in the main body of some games.
Notice it took IB replacing in and his interaction and motivations to make you seem town (and that was only to part of us, myself included)?
Additionally, you (and I, hence why I can call you on this) sometimes override in the minds of our peers the truism that "irritating is not a scumtell" with our enthusiasm.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Yeah, I really don't play intentionally scummy anymore - I just did it enough to obfuscate my meta to the point of where it's totally unreliable to use it on me and people seem to stick to the idea that I still do that. I keep telling people that motive and mindset are what to look for, but nooo.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Yeah, I really don't play intentionally scummy anymore - I just did it enough to obfuscate my meta to the point of where it's totally unreliable to use it on me and people seem to stick to the idea that I still do that. I keep telling people that motive and mindset are what to look for, but nooo.
I listen to ya, buddy
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Yeah, I really don't play intentionally scummy anymore - I just did it enough to obfuscate my meta to the point of where it's totally unreliable to use it on me and people seem to stick to the idea that I still do that. I keep telling people that motive and mindset are what to look for, but nooo.
Your issue is you literally think there is nothing wrong wirh telling other people how they "have" to analyze you.
@drey:ill respond from a real comp to properly discuss with you
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Official Moderator of The [Gutter]
Think the MtgStaff is just swell? Join today! You too can be involved in an 8 year grudge and delete nearly 9000 of kpaca's posts!
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Your issue is you literally think there is nothing wrong wirh telling other people how they "have" to analyze you.
@drey:ill respond from a real comp to properly discuss with you
/barn
Also, while I have your quote here... I'm hoping you will accept the apology I said earlier about my sour grapes post. I don't need aknowledgement of it, but I wanted to throw that out there. You dun' gone' killed us good!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I agree, rarely, if ever, is the fault of the town when a townie is mislynched. You made big mistakes in this game Iso, breadcrumbing a strong power role (that was just a red herring after all) makes little sense as town. You deserved all the pressure you put onto yourself.
@Wessel why the smilie? I do think you play very well, in fact I like to think we are on the same level (but I'm probably just deluding myself). You are one of the strongest new players we have imho. You certainly played well here.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I hope you didn't take my comments about your usual scum play as some kind of slight on you. You were fantastic and probably one of two or three players in this site's history with the ability to carry off the win you did. I just feel that perhaps the town could've pressured you a little more on your claim, for example - the mysterious "autumn tracker" ability was never even questioned.
Not at all. I would say that out of all the criticism of my play that I've received here postgame, yours is actually the most accurate/valid. I will note that I have had serious issues explaining my role as town, which I'm sure you know since it resulted in my death in Grim Batol
Thanks for answering to me, actually the post game discussion is what I like more about mafia, I respect your opinions and want to discuss them to validate against my own. But I never said you played badly or I would have done better overall. I was lynched D1 and you endgamed and won, there's some things I would have done differently and I want your input why you did that.
claiming guilty on Void after AI death and Brinatoo claim
I liked the cop plan you and the team had on night, I think it was a good idea and this game really had a big chance of not having a real cop. But when the day started things had changed. AI had died, Brin claimed cop. From this position I would not have proceeded with the original plan. If Brin had somehow died before endgame (WOD/Alpha could have shot him for example), I think we would have lost it, because you claim would get considerably weaker.
claiming Xyre was town and not AE
AE was your main "suspect", if you had claimed you investigated him, and killed Alpha, Brin would not be sure you were scum. An endgame of Xyre, Kpaca and Brin could be better because both Xyre and Brin could have voted each other.
killing Tezz
I have no idea why you and DJ killed Tezz, I think he had already claimed a weak power role and he certainly wasn't playing very well. I would have killed Wessel or PM much earlier. Tezz was lynchbait.
Not really thinking about your claim
It's was apparent you haven't really thought about the math and exactly how your claim would go (for example, why AE couldn't target you). When people started asking you details I really thought you would be a goner because you couldn't give them straight answers. But you fooled them after all.
1) I'm not sure what you mean by my claim would have got weaker. Furthermore, I would say what we have here is a difference in mafia theory. You seem to think it would have been a good idea to deploy my gambit when it was safer, however the point of a gambit is last ditch resort sort of thing (when scum, it's different as town when you gambit). I've run so many gambits as of now I'm confident I've got it figured out to.
2)Why would I claim that a guy I wanted dead was town? If you declare someone as town when faking as scum, you can't push for their lynch. Thus I would only claim an investigation on someone I was sure I would be fine never pushing a lynch of. Xyre was obviously the best choice.
3) I already explained the necessity of both Wessel and PM in the scum chat, which I would suggest you read fully :). If I removed Wessel and PM, as I stated, I would have had to have been the main lynch driver of the town, which was a higher profile role than I wanted to be in as a fake claiming cop with a counterclaiming live cop with only one scum partner.
4) That's a legit complaint but I don't ever think about my roles, so that 's a complaint you'd have about me in every scum game. It balances out because I don't really know my role as town half the time either. I generally read it in the beginning, then forget by about the end of day 1 everything but the bold print lol. The fact that I have well over 2000 pms in my pm box and i get several a week (or day sometimes) makes losing role pms and not wanting to dig them up that much easier.
Also, while I have your quote here... I'm hoping you will accept the apology I said earlier about my sour grapes post. I don't need aknowledgement of it, but I wanted to throw that out there. You dun' gone' killed us good!
It's all good man, I appreciate both the gesture and the comments. We cool, tires all around.
Also ftr I purposefully tried to ignore you and mess with you a little bit to obfiscate everything else going on for you
It's all good man, I appreciate both the gesture and the comments. We cool, tires all around.
Also ftr I purposefully tried to ignore you and mess with you a little bit to obfiscate everything else going on for you
Yeah I figured after the fact. Again, like Monster Island where you did so to Iso, allowing him to bury himself. Knowing that I should have said more. I just couldn't bring myself to rail for the lynch of the plausible Cop twins.
I mean I don't think the two abilities, as claimed, were improbable. The scum (had they been randomed into any of the other players) could have just played around the both of you given the Seasonal condition of having a shot.
1) I'm not sure what you mean by my claim would have got weaker. Furthermore, I would say what we have here is a difference in mafia theory. You seem to think it would have been a good idea to deploy my gambit when it was safer, however the point of a gambit is last ditch resort sort of thing (when scum, it's different as town when you gambit). I've run so many gambits as of now I'm confident I've got it figured out to.
DRey, what did you expect me to do, in the situation I was in?
Not shoot when I was motivated?
I had been "suspicious" of Artifice and Iso the ENTIRE GAME.
It made perfect sense for town-WoD to shoot either of those two.
Maybe not both, though.
I've made no secret of the fact that I dislike both players, and that played a bit into my decision, also. I don't regret it
Actually I fully agree with that shot, you had no other way as you were "suspitious" of them being scum, plus you had to kill town and not scum at that point of time (btw in reality you knew they were town at that point of time right?)
What I said it was not a good play was you revealing you were the one that shot AI to pass up as the town vig, there's no way you would be the last person alive as a claimed "town vig". Your gambit had an expiring time, and you lived as much as you could, you were living on borrowed time.
1) I'm not sure what you mean by my claim would have got weaker.
I know "don't modgame", "this is a speciality", "this is a large game" but people do it all the time anyway. If Brinato had flipped town cop earlier in the game, I think the pressure on you would be much higher.
Furthermore, I would say what we have here is a difference in mafia theory. You seem to think it would have been a good idea to deploy my gambit when it was safer, however the point of a gambit is last ditch resort sort of thing (when scum, it's different as town when you gambit). I've run so many gambits as of now I'm confident I've got it figured out to.
The thing is: the scum was not with the back on the wall on D2, your gambit assured we lost the eclipse-man and turned into the underdogs. But I understand you gained way too much town credit for that play, in fact you won the game because of it (no one would believe you would throw a ally at that point of time).
2)Why would I claim that a guy I wanted dead was town? If you declare someone as town when faking as scum, you can't push for their lynch. Thus I would only claim an investigation on someone I was sure I would be fine never pushing a lynch of. Xyre was obviously the best choice.
Exactly because of that, AE was your biggest suspect at that point of time, usually the cops investigate the people they suspect as scum, Wessel even commented on the "why you investigated Xyre when you suspected I was scum and you didn't suspect him? it makes no sense." and it's the truth.
3) I already explained the necessity of both Wessel and PM in the scum chat, which I would suggest you read fully :). If I removed Wessel and PM, as I stated, I would have had to have been the main lynch driver of the town, which was a higher profile role than I wanted to be in as a fake claiming cop with a counterclaiming live cop with only one scum partner.
Fair enough, I was just afraid of both players because they were the main thinkers of the town, and they were good, they got very, very close in catching you. But I see what you mean, gambit all the way.
I'm having a hard time to understand that, but maybe that's because I'm not so good as scum you both of you. In fact this remember the gambit Artifice suggested on Enders, he said that I should daykill him for town credit and ride until the endgame, but I refused to spend resources killing a fellow ally (when I used my daykill mafia also lost the NK). Maybe that could've worked...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I'm having a hard time to understand that, but maybe that's because I'm not so good as scum you both of you. In fact this remember the gambit Artifice suggested on Enders, he said that I should daykill him for town credit and ride until the endgame, but I refused to spend resources killing a fellow ally (when I used my daykill mafia also lost the NK). Maybe that could've worked...
There is hope for you yet, my friend
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
I just wasn't paying enough attention at that point. When I came and say the DK I was like "OMG WTF have I done?" I thought for sure that Kpaca's gambit would fail because of it. So happy it didn't.
Great game everyone.
Loved the flavor Zinda.
Honestly, I will say I got a little lost in the flavor for a while when real-life got in the way. That was the primary reason I didn't immediately counter-claim iLord when the mistake surfaced. That was a definite blown opportunity, and i got stuck playing off the back foot trying to get out from underneath it. Lessons learned.
Re: the claim thing - I honestly wrote that off the top of my head, with no conscious decision one way or the other to use the "team" language. There was honestly no copying of the PM at all. Considering what I was up against at that point, I needed to have my claim come off as completely casual as possible. I was expecting to be able to ride the "Why would I be dumb enough to copy/paste a claim?" angle, because at the time it seemed so ridiculous that someonewould buy in to the contrary. Lesson learned.
Well played, Kpaca. I will say that I'm having a hard time letting go of what happened on my final night. This will sound like a bit of 'sore loser', but I often have a hard time believing you're a team player. Kinda feel like you threw me under the bus there because it guaranteed you an end-game appearance. If you made that NK, I don't think a thing changes, except the game ends sooner in our favor. As it is, I ended up getting handed to PM on a platter, despite protesting that it would happen.
I'd love for you to talk me down off this ledge.
But in any case, this game was completely incredible. Loved every minute of it.
--->DJ
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You win when you finish ff the town, there isnt an award for winjing with as many teammates alive as possible. Not only do I think Im more likely to win in an endgame situation based off of sheer skill and maneuverability, but I have more town cred as well? Why would have me stick my neck out for no reason when pm is likely on to you anyway. Zindabad even noted this as proper play in his comments in his mod qt. if anyone is currently exhibiting poor team play its you, Im sorry I didnt ignore risk versus reward when trying to coordinate a late game team victory after being substanially down, and am deeply sorry you didnt get to play the whole game, it does suck you missed out.
Like seriously? You died and then I had PaleMage, probably the best player in this game, lynched because I said "lol math". Had I been dead could you have removed pm? Who would you have outlasted? You certainly had less town cred than everyone probably sans brinatoo.
@drey: so you died day one amd i won the game and yet you pretty much just criticized every move I did as something you would have argued against? Okay man.
I for one am satisfied we won. Thanks for hosting zinda, and special thanks to PaleMage, Xyre, ArchmageEternal, and djcatchem the mad guy. You guys made this game my favorite to date. AE, thanks for being such a good sport specifically, amd letting me call you a traffic cone.
@zind: can we see spectator chat?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Choosing between two cops, one of which hit scum, you have to consider whether one person is faking results, or one person had run a gambit. On the surface, you would expect kpaca to be skilled enough to run that gambit successfully (as he of course, did), but what really threw me was his brilliant killing of Xyre. That pretty much put me in his corner.
Reading through the scumchat, kpaca really impressed me with his intuition of the game state pretty much from the very beginning. Though it's unfortunate you think me such a big sheep, k-panini.
Yeah, in retrospect it was a rough lynch. To be fair, I pulled back, thanks to Xyre, and never actually had my vote in on his lynch. But handing over DJC is no less a crazy gambit than what kpaca did, and he pulled it out. I had no doubt that PM was capable of the same thing, but what kept eating at me was PM suggesting me as scum. It just felt off, and I was legitimately surprised that he could come to that conclusion with the information from the mason PMs.
@PM - Thank you for the great work you put forth in this game, it was much more enjoyable thanks to your analysis, as always. You're my vote for Town MVP, hands down. It was a pleasure to play with you these last several years.
Zinda, I'll say it again. This was a fantastic setup, quite well-balanced, and really a beautifully written story. I love the intricacies with the seasons and clock, even if it had a few quirks. You're certainly among the most original mods here and easily one of my favorites.
I wish I could play in the sequel, and who knows, maybe RL demands will be different come that time.
You won't hear me saying that. You're quite the expert manipulator, and other than my initial scum read in my 2nd post on you, it was lights out.
-----
@All - Thank you to this great community for 7 years of memories and thrilling text warfare. Though many of the faces have changed, it seems there are always new and unique players joining up, and that's encouraging to see. I've tried other mafia sites here and there, but for my money, MTGS is king of mafia, and it's no contest.
I've made some great friends here, including but certainly not limited to loran16, MandersHex, Xyre, DYH, and I think even Seppel, strangely enough
I'd especially like to thank anyone who played in one of my 3 games that I modded. I count those as among my most rewarding experiences in my adult life.
I may still pop in from time to time, but I think my family and work needs to take precedence right now.
==========================
While I'm on the subject of life circumstances, I would like to offer my deepest condolences to Brinatoo. Didn't think a PM was appropriate (ongoing game, AND why add more to his plate?). I want to personally thank him for his efforts here, as they were above and beyond my expectations given the circumstances. I hope all is peaceful and stable again for you as soon as humanly possible.
===========================
Lastly, on a lighter note, from the scum QT:
"Man, IT'D be sweet if WoD was empowered and shot both Iso and Arti. The town would founder the rest of the way." --DJ
I chuckled. Apparently this was the predictable? I did the best I could to force WoD's hand off the trigger. Apparently, it wasn't meant to be.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Best case scenario, he shoots elsewhere knowing that exactly what happened would happen: people called him out on shooting me when I proved what I was and therefore confirmed I was town.
Worst case, he gets lynched/shot, confirming the actual Town Vig.
He chose the suicidal route, not that I gave him a ton of alternatives.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
But yes you were totally intregal in everyones strategy.
@Alpha: Sorry to see you go, but thanks for your efforts in the community - Amnesia Mafia, to this day, is still one of my favorite games I've ever played in.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Too town? Haha, I show more effort as scum, unfortunately. And I'm sorry my real life problems have become my priority. If I had remembered that Wessel had caught kpaca in a lie, iirc, then Alpha might have had second thoughts.
Great flavor, I think I left off at day 6. Might go back and read it some day.
Zinda, I think you outlined how my role was genuinely frustrating. I believed for the longest time that kpaca was another cop because of how weak mine was. Oh well,
No apologies necessary! Such things happen in mafia.
Sorry to see you go...but what a game to go out on, eh? Couldn't ask for more. Best of luck to you in all your future endeavors, and don't be a stranger.
Well done, sir! Congrats on the win.
Really enjoyed this game, Zindabad. Fun roles and cool flavor. Glad I replaced in! (Doubly so since I couldn't replace into your last one when you really needed a couple of folks).
I'm back on hiatus for a while while I do other things (among them figuring out what this "Legacy" thing is in preparation for GP: Atl), but I'll be back playing eventually. I'll at least be poking my head in to read a couple of games.
Flavor & roles were awesome. Beat me with a stick if I don't /in Celestial, Zinda. IIRC, you said in WoW that this game (Seasons) would be your last, and I'm glad it's not.
I'd also like to see the point values of the roles, unless I missed them.Found 'em. I loved the randomization concept. Also, the flavor was awesome.I'm mad at myself for A) not starting this game, B) letting myself fall so far behind with known travel plans along the way, and C) not just taking the laptop to a legitimate repair guy, which wound up being a <1 day fix (frame keeping the DC jack in place was busted, which just needed hot glue and hard plastic to reinforce). I'm really sorry/regretful for replacing out, but at the time I thought it was best for the gamestate.
Kpaca's notes on the gamestate in the scumchat should be required reading, and the gambit fooled me just as badly as anyone else. Sorry you're dipping out, but I'm glad I got the chance to play in another game (kinda) with you. Same with AlphaI.
PM, you still inexplicably scare the crap out of me. I'll be prepping for GP:ATL as well (living in FL, it'll be my 3rd time there for a GP), best of luck.
Zinda, I deleted the PM (I like keeping a tidy inbox), but didn't you tell me I would receive the target of Winds of Change's role PM? I assumed I would get something to the extent of (if targeting mafia) "You are MAFIA, with (REDACTED), ____, ____, etc." left in there. That's why I was so confident that it would be a one-shot cop.
Congrats to the scum team. Games like this show why Zinda is the best game moderator on the site at current.
Did I mention the flavor was awesome?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It's in the role notes in Akaramol's role PM (see the setup posted at the end.) Nothing can stop that ability. I figured that if it did something as fundamental as swapping role PMs, mere abilities shouldn't affect it.
Think of this game (like most setups) as an elevator. When you enter the elevator, you know what is expected of you. You press the button and the elevator takes you where you want to go. Do we really know how elevators work? (Well, some people do. You know what I'm getting at here.)
The button was the Clock and the abilities that affected it. You knew how to work the Clock, the information was made public, there were no surprises (unlike Grim Batol's mechanics, which is one of the problems I identified with that game that I set out to fix here.)
The randomization, Reaper abilities (which never had any impact on the game), etc. are what was happening "behind the scenes" to make the elevator take you where you want to go. Most people don't need to know about pulleys and whatever else makes the elevator work - God knows I have no idea - and in the end, if they work as they should (and they did in this game, in my opinion), nobody is worse off for not understanding them.
As I said above, I completely agree. Sorry about that one. Glad it didn't matter.
I'm still not sure exactly what rule I wasn't being forward about. Randomization? I guess the masons were a little bit non-random. In future games I will probably continue to employ this system, but without any pre-defined alignments (like the masons) except perhaps a neutral.
I would think nothing of putting one bastard role in a specialty game and not advertising it as a bastard game. I saw putting that caveat in Brinatoo's role as a bonus to him, since it was such a weak role, I wanted to make clear that he would have no cause to doubt whatever results he did get.
I hope you didn't take my comments about your usual scum play as some kind of slight on you. You were fantastic and probably one of two or three players in this site's history with the ability to carry off the win you did. I just feel that perhaps the town could've pressured you a little more on your claim, for example - the mysterious "autumn tracker" ability was never even questioned.
Many of you asked about this over the course of the game. I don't use spectator forums because I just see them as potential information leaks. Of course nobody (or almost nobody) intends to leak information, but accidents can happens, subtleties can be interpreted variously, and it's just better in general if nobody but me and my reviewer knows anything about the setup until all is said and done.
I'll miss you. I wish I had played in Amnesia as that seemed like a good time. It'll take forever for Celestial to roll around so hopefully you're raring to go by then. Best wishes.
None of the role PMs included anything about being town or mafia - that was in the Mafia group PM. So it wouldn't have got you any of that information. That was intentional.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
LOL
I know this feeling, I got the same one when the whole scumteam bussed me into oblivion on FF mafia. But you talk with perfect knowledge, back there we didn't know PM had a roleblock, neither that he would point that to you. While I think Kpaca did a lot of things wrong on this game this one was right, he was the team's best bet into victory, you as the last representative of the team should've protected him with your life if it was necessary. (And it was)
Yeah, but DJ rules and got away from that just fine (he even outlived you). I seriously love this guy in a heterosexual way.
I completely disagree. WOD killing Iso and Artifice just proved he was anti-town. After all that had happened so far, there's no way Iso was scum before IB, I could see a vig shooting Artifice though. But there's no way WOD would live much longer anyway, he was doomed from the start.
@Alpha I'm seriously unhappy that you are leaving us, If that's worth something I think you are one heck of a player and mod. It's really unfortunate that I probably won't be playing an Alpha's game and/or playing with you. I hope you reconsider it! And I don't think you are a sheep, in fact I think you were awesome in not shooting AE despite all the pressure, shooting him before Brin was certainly wrong at that point and you did the right thing.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Lead a comeback win against the odds via ingenuity and manipulation. Get told you play bad. What is this bizarro world?
To tie it back to the metaphor... how about this: it's the difference between "the wires go through a series of winches that pull the elevator up and down" and "the elevator moves up and down." Functionally, we don't really know more about the elevator from either, but at least we can be assured it isn't magic - we have less doubt.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
They hate us cause they ain't us.
claiming guilty on Void after AI death and Brinatoo claim
I liked the cop plan you and the team had on night, I think it was a good idea and this game really had a big chance of not having a real cop. But when the day started things had changed. AI had died, Brin claimed cop. From this position I would not have proceeded with the original plan. If Brin had somehow died before endgame (WOD/Alpha could have shot him for example), I think we would have lost it, because you claim would get considerably weaker.
claiming Xyre was town and not AE
AE was your main "suspect", if you had claimed you investigated him, and killed Alpha, Brin would not be sure you were scum. An endgame of Xyre, Kpaca and Brin could be better because both Xyre and Brin could have voted each other.
killing Tezz
I have no idea why you and DJ killed Tezz, I think he had already claimed a weak power role and he certainly wasn't playing very well. I would have killed Wessel or PM much earlier. Tezz was lynchbait.
Not really thinking about your claim
It's was apparent you haven't really thought about the math and exactly how your claim would go (for example, why AE couldn't target you). When people started asking you details I really thought you would be a goner because you couldn't give them straight answers. But you fooled them after all.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I think this is largely due to the fact that at least half of the players decided that when I claimed, I was lying about my ability.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Notice it took IB replacing in and his interaction and motivations to make you seem town (and that was only to part of us, myself included)?
Additionally, you (and I, hence why I can call you on this) sometimes override in the minds of our peers the truism that "irritating is not a scumtell" with our enthusiasm.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Your issue is you literally think there is nothing wrong wirh telling other people how they "have" to analyze you.
@drey:ill respond from a real comp to properly discuss with you
Because I get mislynched so often as town. People seriously don't think their cases on me through thoroughly when I am town.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Also, while I have your quote here... I'm hoping you will accept the apology I said earlier about my sour grapes post. I don't need aknowledgement of it, but I wanted to throw that out there. You dun' gone' killed us good!
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Stop blaming your mislynches on the town.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
I'm gonna reflect on this.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Wessel why the smilie? I do think you play very well, in fact I like to think we are on the same level (but I'm probably just deluding myself). You are one of the strongest new players we have imho. You certainly played well here.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Not shoot when I was motivated?
I had been "suspicious" of Artifice and Iso the ENTIRE GAME.
It made perfect sense for town-WoD to shoot either of those two.
Maybe not both, though.
I've made no secret of the fact that I dislike both players, and that played a bit into my decision, also. I don't regret it
Not at all. I would say that out of all the criticism of my play that I've received here postgame, yours is actually the most accurate/valid. I will note that I have had serious issues explaining my role as town, which I'm sure you know since it resulted in my death in Grim Batol
1) I'm not sure what you mean by my claim would have got weaker. Furthermore, I would say what we have here is a difference in mafia theory. You seem to think it would have been a good idea to deploy my gambit when it was safer, however the point of a gambit is last ditch resort sort of thing (when scum, it's different as town when you gambit). I've run so many gambits as of now I'm confident I've got it figured out to.
2)Why would I claim that a guy I wanted dead was town? If you declare someone as town when faking as scum, you can't push for their lynch. Thus I would only claim an investigation on someone I was sure I would be fine never pushing a lynch of. Xyre was obviously the best choice.
3) I already explained the necessity of both Wessel and PM in the scum chat, which I would suggest you read fully :). If I removed Wessel and PM, as I stated, I would have had to have been the main lynch driver of the town, which was a higher profile role than I wanted to be in as a fake claiming cop with a counterclaiming live cop with only one scum partner.
4) That's a legit complaint but I don't ever think about my roles, so that 's a complaint you'd have about me in every scum game. It balances out because I don't really know my role as town half the time either. I generally read it in the beginning, then forget by about the end of day 1 everything but the bold print lol. The fact that I have well over 2000 pms in my pm box and i get several a week (or day sometimes) makes losing role pms and not wanting to dig them up that much easier.
It's all good man, I appreciate both the gesture and the comments. We cool, tires all around.
Also ftr I purposefully tried to ignore you and mess with you a little bit to obfiscate everything else going on for you
Emphasis mine.
Stop.
Blaming.
Everyone.
Else.
For.
Your.
Bad.
Play.
Are you really done with mafia?
I mean I don't think the two abilities, as claimed, were improbable. The scum (had they been randomed into any of the other players) could have just played around the both of you given the Seasonal condition of having a shot.
That's what "Ask ZDS" meant
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
I believe you timed it perfectly.
What I said it was not a good play was you revealing you were the one that shot AI to pass up as the town vig, there's no way you would be the last person alive as a claimed "town vig". Your gambit had an expiring time, and you lived as much as you could, you were living on borrowed time.
I know "don't modgame", "this is a speciality", "this is a large game" but people do it all the time anyway. If Brinato had flipped town cop earlier in the game, I think the pressure on you would be much higher.
The thing is: the scum was not with the back on the wall on D2, your gambit assured we lost the eclipse-man and turned into the underdogs. But I understand you gained way too much town credit for that play, in fact you won the game because of it (no one would believe you would throw a ally at that point of time).
Exactly because of that, AE was your biggest suspect at that point of time, usually the cops investigate the people they suspect as scum, Wessel even commented on the "why you investigated Xyre when you suspected I was scum and you didn't suspect him? it makes no sense." and it's the truth.
Fair enough, I was just afraid of both players because they were the main thinkers of the town, and they were good, they got very, very close in catching you. But I see what you mean, gambit all the way.
I greatly liked that lol. I used the same argument against Manders in Osteria to some degree of success.
I'm having a hard time to understand that, but maybe that's because I'm not so good as scum you both of you. In fact this remember the gambit Artifice suggested on Enders, he said that I should daykill him for town credit and ride until the endgame, but I refused to spend resources killing a fellow ally (when I used my daykill mafia also lost the NK). Maybe that could've worked...
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats