Yeah, I perceived it as with question mark. I think my post answered the question. I thought she might be scum. I thought it even after I got all the flak from other people because I don't know why it should change my opinion. When I left the game yesterday, there was nothing that could change my opinion. So in the time of my last post it was serious vote bu tnow it is not (and it is non-existent). I never said she is scum. She might be but my vote was never firm one. It is interesting when people attack it as it was strongest vote ever while most of you keep mentioning how you don't have any reads and how we are only briefly out of RVS.
My feeling is that you asked about it to get me to unvote and back down from my stance to be able to bash me for it.
I attacked only you because I find your vote bad and responded to GrickyTimmick in the same way he attacked me. He labeled every single thing I posted as scummy so it is just natural I'll atatck him when responding to it.
To the first bold part: So, you weren't sure of her scumminess and your vote wasn't "firm"? Then why vote? There are plenty of other ways of expressing your suspicion, such as FoS or just simply stating "I think player x is suspicious.". Let me tell you something: A vote is a vote is a vote is a vote. Whether you mean it to be rock solid or not doesn't matter, because it is by nature a rock solid thing. Suspicion doesn't lynch people, votes do. Suspicion helps, yeah, but without the vote you have nothing. So what you are saying is that you are willing to throw your vote around with reckless abandon. That's pretty scummy if you ask me.
To the second bold: I seem to remember bolding specific parts of your quotes and calling you scummy for those and other specific actions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't ever recall posting your quotes and just calling the whole thing scummy. Parts of them yes. All of them no. Also, it's no my problem that your content seems to be laden with scummy things. I just point it out. I'll also point out now your attempt to devalue my arguments by saying I just call everything you do scummy. I've only called you scummy since you started acting scummy.
I didn't care about the damn trap! Iso kept mentioning Foxlet so I went and checked her play. I saw something what I perceived scummy so I voted her. I couldn't care less if there was someone trying to cathc scum with his fake vote on Fox. I saw something worth a vote, so I threw it.
Why the hell should I, when Iso revealed he was setting trap, unvote?
Let's say it woul happen elsewhere. What if some player tries to use trap with attacking one player and asking others to read the second player's previous play to lure scums into joining? What if town player picks on it, reads seconds player's meta and finds the 3rd player is scum. What is he supposed to do, then? Leave it alone because someone might be setting up trap?
Why should be voting for someone based on feelings in time when we were just leaving RVS bad?
Honestly, it doesn't matter if you vote or unvote after the trap goes off, its the fact that the trap went off on you that matters. Your sticking with the vote and the explanations to follow have been the real insight. The trap just started the whole thing.
I just have a quick second on my phone before work so ill leave this here:
Vote: grickytrimmick
Ill have reasoning in like 8 or 9 hours after i get off work, but its mostly based on his high text produced to text read ratio. Theres a couple clear misreps and questions he asks with answers already stated. Which makes the content he produced seem more like scum trying to seem townie than townie actually trying to help. Ill be much more specific after work.
Would love to hear from this. Also love to know how he can determine my amount of text read. Sure I ask questions, and their might be answers in the thread that I missed, but I don't know how that makes me scum. In fact, asking questions, regardless of the presence of answers, is a clear sign of a protown mindset if you ask me. But let's hear the presentation.
@Foxlet: I have perfectly acceptable and sound reasoning for putting YJ on my town list. I can explain it when the proper time comes but now is not that time. I knew when I listed her as town that people would find it odd, so I hope you will trust me when I say I have a perfectly valid reason for it and that maybe we can discuss on day 2 or so.
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As with Eron, I really don't see what your getting at Iso. I've reviewed the RVS posts from Foxlet in both games (Cirque and this) and they seem similar. She is very characteristic in her posts from this stage, I don't really see much reservation.
Oh look at that. You asked Eron what he thought about it completely out of nowhere, then conveniently had the same opinion as him.
How is telling someone to stop following you scumhunting?
I don't recall anyone saying you aren't scumhunting, so why are you trying to drill the idea into our heads?
Oh look at that. You asked Eron what he thought about it completely out of nowhere, then conveniently had the same opinion as him.
Not barning, merely asking for opinion. I asked Eron for his opinions, and clearly stated that I didn't want to make any opinions to taint Kah's answer. At that point it's Eron's call whether or not he wants to answer.
I agreed with Eron, yes. Why not? There are only two options here, if I were to state that I did see something I would be barning Vitek and If I said I didn't see anything I would be barning Eron. There is no way out.
So in the time of my last post it was serious vote bu tnow it is not (and it is non-existent).
So...your serious vote became a non-serious vote? Can you explain how that makes sense?
Quote from Vitek »
I attacked only you because I find your vote bad and responded to GrickyTimmick in the same way he attacked me. He labeled every single thing I posted as scummy so it is just natural I'll atatck him when responding to it.
Why would you attack him for thinking everything you do is scummy? How is that not OMGUS?
LN, have you played as scum before? If so, what game?
Why the hell should I, when Iso revealed he was setting trap, unvote?
Let's say it woul happen elsewhere. What if some player tries to use trap with attacking one player and asking others to read the second player's previous play to lure scums into joining? What if town player picks on it, reads seconds player's meta and finds the 3rd player is scum. What is he supposed to do, then? Leave it alone because someone might be setting up trap?
Why should be voting for someone based on feelings in time when we were just leaving RVS bad?
So you just admitted that there's nothing there, then? Why on earth would you think Foxlet is scum, in that case? Moreover, why would you vote one of the people to call you on it? Your play is erratic and I cannot make sense of it.
I don't care if LN is on this wagon anymore, I think your actions are not coming from a town mindset.
FTR, Gricky, asking questions isn't always indicative of a pro-town mindset. Some scum players fill their scum game with asking questions so it seems like they're scumhunting.
So your saying scum don't scumhunt? (appear to scumhunt)
Scum like to try to appear to scumhunt. That doesn't mean they succeed. Why the loaded question?
Quote from Zenjo »
How is telling someone to stop following you scumhunting?
I don't recall anyone saying you aren't scumhunting, so why are you trying to drill the idea into our heads?
I don't like being tied to players that I think are scum and LuckNorris was (and is) setting off alarm bells all over the place - so, nice misrep. And I never said anyone accused me of not scumhunting - I was clarifying that I was not intending to be mean, but rather, that my intention was to give my opinion on LuckNorris's actions. Obviously it was lost in translation through my attempt at humor.
I'm curious as to why this post of yours reads like it's condoning LN's actions and then condemning them at the same time. So please, explain.
Totally calling the scum team as Vitek, LN, and Zenjo.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I've played as scum once, in Neon Genesis Evangelion Mafia. I was lynched Day 2.
Why do you keep using cryptic language to discredit me, Iso? First you say I raised a red flag, and now you say I am setting all sorts of alarm bells. Can you please go into more detail?
Totally calling the scum team as Vitek, LN, and Zenjo.
Well your already wrong, I'm town.
We'll see how it plays out. Vitek is scum and Zenjo is more leaning right now.
Scum like to try to appear to scumhunt. That doesn't mean they succeed. Why the loaded question?
You are using scumhunting as logic that your are not scum, yet both alignments can scumhunt (or appear to scumhunt). This and your second self-delcaration of scumhunting right after that is rubbing me the wrong way.
You still don't mind holding off your vote Foxlet as now the below has been dropped I definitely don't want this day to end just yet.
For sure! The ever mysterious and up until now silent Qfish has appeared, dropped a bomb and departed. I'm awaiting to see what their reasoning is.
Granted, there has been something about Gricky that bothers me but not nearly enough as LN or Vitek. I'm putting it down right now as just gut feel and telling myself to keep an eye on him.
I never said she is scum. She might be but my vote was never firm one. It is interesting when people attack it as it was strongest vote ever while most of you keep mentioning how you don't have any reads and how we are only briefly out of RVS.
This is why I don't like to "pressure" vote people. I see it used often round here and I'm not very fond of it. Its a chance for people to jump wagons easy and hide their votes easily.
To the first bold part: So, you weren't sure of her scumminess and your vote wasn't "firm"? Then why vote? There are plenty of other ways of expressing your suspicion, such as FoS or just simply stating "I think player x is suspicious.". Let me tell you something: A vote is a vote is a vote is a vote. Whether you mean it to be rock solid or not doesn't matter, because it is by nature a rock solid thing. Suspicion doesn't lynch people, votes do. Suspicion helps, yeah, but without the vote you have nothing. So what you are saying is that you are willing to throw your vote around with reckless abandon. That's pretty scummy if you ask me.
Primarily addressed above. Vitek is doing what several other players do. You might not like it and I don't have to like it but it's a pretty common tactic.
@Foxlet: I have perfectly acceptable and sound reasoning for putting YJ on my town list. I can explain it when the proper time comes but now is not that time. I knew when I listed her as town that people would find it odd, so I hope you will trust me when I say I have a perfectly valid reason for it and that maybe we can discuss on day 2 or so.
You might have a perfectly acceptable and sound reason for it, but as I've mentioned before. I trust no one I can see one of 2 reasons for this.
One is that you are scum, and KNOW Yuriko is town. This would also explain why you would want to discuss it on day 2 or so. It would conveniently give you a "safety" net so long as you didn't do anything super scummy. We would be looking elsewhere and giving you a "free ride" as it were.
Second option is there is a Daytime investigative PR which seems very unlikely given this is basic.
Oh...a third that I just thought of is something to do with your flavor in your Role PM. Which again, I would have to wonder how you would know about Yuriko's flavor or Role as well?
I've played as scum once, in Neon Genesis Evangelion Mafia. I was lynched Day 2.
Why do you keep using cryptic language to discredit me, Iso? First you say I raised a red flag, and now you say I am setting all sorts of alarm bells. Can you please go into more detail?
I'll be sure to read Days 1 and 2 of NGE, then.
I'm not sure how I'm being cryptic - you're moderating your statements heavily when you express your opinions an overall your language is scummy to me.
Quote from LuckNorris »
Well your already wrong, I'm town.
We'll see how it plays out. Vitek is scum and Zenjo is more leaning right now.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You are using scumhunting as logic that your are not scum, yet both alignments can scumhunt (or appear to scumhunt). This and your second self-delcaration of scumhunting right after that is rubbing me the wrong way.
So now you're accusing me of not scumhunting? Please exemplify how.
Quote from Zenjo »
I'm not condoning his actions. How did you read it like that?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Do you want me to change my vote every time I point out something that I see scummy?
I leave my vote where it is because Kahedron is at the top of my suspect list.
LuckNorris is a close second, and for the third I'm not sure yet, either you or Vitek right now.
No, you won't exemplify how you think I'm not scumhunting? Or no, you don't think I'm not scumhunting?
RE: Kahedron: Please show me how Kahedron is scummier than LuckNorris.
I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that LN, Vitek, and Zenjo are all connected at the hip and that I have a scum read on all of them - was this game really that easy?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I explained it right in that very post. I didn't really want to answer it without Kah answering the question first,
Then why would you ask someone else to answer it?
Oh look at that. You asked Eron what he thought about it completely out of nowhere, then conveniently had the same opinion as him.
You both are pointing fingers at each other, its a bit silly! Zen's play here almost reminds me of his play in Cirque. It's not quite the same, but similar.
So your saying scum don't scumhunt? (appear to scumhunt)
You should know that Zen. You were doing it in Cirque as scum reasonably well You can't stick out, so usually you have to appear to scumhunt with everyone else. Which Iso addresses below...
FTR, Gricky, asking questions isn't always indicative of a pro-town mindset. Some scum players fill their scum game with asking questions so it seems like they're scumhunting.
Yeah, I remember seeing that in at least one game. It's why I don't auto think asking questions = scumhunting = town
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
No, you won't exemplify how you think I'm not scumhunting? Or no, you don't think I'm not scumhunting?
RE: Kahedron: Please show me how Kahedron is scummier than LuckNorris.
I don't think your not scumhunting.
Most of Kahedrons posts rub me the wrong way. Like when he asks Wheat if there are any spelling errors in his role PM after Wheat already answered the question.
You should know that Zen. You were doing it in Cirque as scum reasonably well You can't stick out, so usually you have to appear to scumhunt with everyone else. Which Iso addresses below...
Yeah, I remember seeing that in at least one game. It's why I don't auto think asking questions = scumhunting = town
I do know that. My point is that Iso saying that he doesn't look scummy because he is scumhunting is making me suspicious of him.
I don't think your not scumhunting.
Most of Kahedrons posts rub me the wrong way. Like when he asks Wheat if there are any spelling errors in his role PM after Wheat already answered the question.
I do know that. My point is that Iso saying that he doesn't look scummy because he is scumhunting is making me suspicious of him.
If you don't think I'm not scumhunting, why is it suspicious to you that I am scumhunting, and aware of that fact? Moreover, if you think I'm scumhunting, how does that make me scum? I feel like you want to call me scum strictly on the premise that I would be voting you if I had three votes, but are trying not to lash out so as to not seem scummy for OMGUS. So instead, you're doing the next best thing for yourself and calling me scummy town.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Ah, but you see, it's not flavor gaming! It's grammar gaming! A much more useless way of gaming a mod. Grammar gaming will more than likely have absolutely no impact on the game, seeing as how the mod can misspell something in both town and scum role pms, so it doesn't imply guilt if we do have a misspelling.
Speaking of which, why are we even doing it? I know it was to move us out of RVS, but doing so with a pointless softclaim seems, well, pointless.
Which directly followed my post of :
Quote from QUIETFISH »
Yeah, I've always thought of soft claims as largely useless, and in a game advertised as teaching players the dangers of flavour gaming, could potentially be dangerous as Vitek pointed out. I'm against one.
but also could have potentially been responding to:
Quote from VITEK »
Quote from KAHEDRON »
Any one in favor of an odd soft claim to kill off RVS??
I am not. Seppel warned against flavour-gaming and this would only lead to it.
The important thing to note is that neither mine nor Vitek's posts was referring to the spelling soft claim someone suggested, and yet Gricky responded to at least one of them as if it were. This is a minor point as Gricky has later said his above post was intended as a joke, but the fact that he didn't correctly grasp the nature of what he was responding to is telling, and should be kept in mind.
The theme continues here:
Quote from GRICKYTRIMMICK »
Agreed.
@LenKenneth and Eron: Sup guys? Why no love for the RVS? Len hasn't posted at all and Eron had one quick stop and gone. Same goes for LuckNorris now that I think about it, although Luck posted more recently.
What's the story?
At this point in the game Eron, luck, lenken and yuro all had one post. Which Gricky forgot about one of the one-x posters and also completely forgot about LenKens post. I want to stress that nothing thus far is scummy per se, but shows Grickys mindset of being slightly divorced from the thread: not completely worried about being accurate. Certainly not rereading. In my mind, this is either lazy town or scum. Scum wont care about being reading the thread carefully because they already know everyones alignment, and lazy town are, well, lazy.
And the game has really started now, so the next few incidents are much more telling
Quote from VITEK »
Quote from GRICKYTRIMMICK »
Well, maybe you are onto something with her. I read her posts in Cirque de Freak and there is something I noticed but I wouldn't call it as her being reserved.
Vote Foxlet
I hate this so much. Vague bandwagoning in the Iso trap, but what I don't like the most is the line at the end. Vitek is waiting on Kahedron, after which Iso will post her reasoning. So basically, Vitek is waiting on Iso, for her reasoning, so that he can say "oh, yeah, those things! Exactly! We see eye to eye don't we Iso?"
Methinks Vitek's intentions were to barn Iso till death do them part. It may very well part them after all, more in Vitek's case.
No. NO NO NO NO NO. To clarify (bold added for emphasis):
Quote from VITEK »
Quote from ISO »
Actually, let's do this.
Vote Foxlet
You seem to be playing more reserved than in your last game. What gives?
Well, maybe you are onto something with her. I read her posts in Cirque de Freak and there is something I noticed but I wouldn't call it as her being reserved.
Vote Foxlet
Vitek is clearly not waiting to barn Iso. Vitek stated that he didn't find the problem with Foxlet to be an increased degree of reservation in her posts. This jumps out at me is Gricky not really bothering to comprehend what hes reading, again, either a scum or lazy tell.
Quote from GrickyTrimmick »
]ISO: Care to expand on the Red Flags that LuckNorris has been sending up? or did I miss your expansion somewhere else.
It wasn't explicitly stated, but the clear implication from the previous page and a half of posting is that the red flags are Luck following Iso around. Missing that is again, a lazy or scum tell. Even if he wasn't sure, a better, more actively read question would have looked something like "Hey Iso -- were there any red flags besides Luck following you around?"
Quote from GRICKYTRIMMICK »
He also notes as part of his reasoning that Fox seemed more random here. Consider this: All of Fox's votes up until that point had been in RVS. That is Random Voting Stage. Yeah, I bet fox is being more random. [/QUOTE
[QUOTE=VITEK]I read her game and there really are differences so I wanted to pressure her a bit. If you look at both games she is much more likely to vote her, but I guess this could be explained by her playing her first game last time. What got me worried is that in the Cirque she started to get into game much faster than here. Here she is much more... random. In Cirque her comments, even in RVS, were more connected to game than in here. She very quickly managed to even share her opinion about some players while there is nothing like that here.
Quote from VITEK »
I am not voting her because she hasn't given reads. I am voting her because in Cirque even her RVS posts were more tied to the game and she was more willing to comment on game and players from the go despite it was her first game. In here, it is just OOG stuff.
Vitek twice stated before Gricky posted the above that the comparisons he was drawing were to Fox's Cirque RVS stage. Gricky somehow misses that. Again, lazy or scum, with a side of scum blatantly ignoring things to make a case.
The kicker to the argument is that Gricky is posting a lot and providing a lot of content -- more or equal to pretty much everyone in the game. And yet there's these huge holes in his reading. The fact that hes clearly doing a lot of work means its not laziness. Which only leaves scum. It makes perfect sense -- the exact details of posts don't matter as much to scum because their not actually trying to deduce alignments. Instead, they seek weakness and go for a mislynch. Gricky imo is providing all sorts of content to seem townie, without doing the careful reading and thinking that a real townie would do.
That's about it for the Gricky case at the point where I posted earlier. I read through everything else, and nothing changed my mind, but I haven't had time to deeply analyze it yet and I need to get to bed. I do want to mention that I can't think of a single town motvation for Gricky town thing out there at us, but I can think of several scum ones.
As far as other players go, I'm incredibally wary of Iso right now. Something seems off. I haven't had a chance to go through and pin down what it is my instinct is responding to yet, but my instinct is screaming scum.
I think the Vitek wagon is scum-driven, and I think Vitek is town.
quietfish, wouldn't your theory regarding Gricky only hold merit if I'm scum, too? If that's the case, you're going to have difficulty holding a candle to that one.
Also, I'm curious as to why you think Vitek couldn't have just easily made something up pertaining to why he "thought" Foxlet could be scum in case he did, in fact, stumble into a trap (or came up with it after realizing his stumble).
Couple that with his poor reactions to being voted and I'm not convinced.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
quietfish, wouldn't your theory regarding Gricky only hold merit if I'm scum, too? If that's the case, you're going to have difficulty holding a candle to that one.
Also, I'm curious as to why you think Vitek couldn't have just easily made something up pertaining to why he "thought" Foxlet could be scum in case he did, in fact, stumble into a trap (or came up with it after realizing his stumble).
Couple that with his poor reactions to being voted and I'm not convinced.
Not really. It's not about the content of what hes posting, its about the preparation behind it. There's an infinite amount of WIFOM when considering the content -- would scum push another scum's wagon, would they push a townie wagon so hard so early, etc etc etc. I'm much happier looking at the preparation and realizing that its almost impossible for Gricky's mindset to be townie.
Gricky called Vitek on waiting for you before posting his reasoning, stating that he was looking for something to barn. I believe this is completely wrong, since Vitek had already struck out on his own from you and stated that he didnt find FoxLets level of reservation to be the issue, although he was still making a meta argument.
I didn't say anything about Vitek's ability to make a reason up if caught in a trap, obviously he is capable of doing so. My argument is that breadcrumbing a reason as to how his thought process differs from yours in his initial vote directly contradicts the idea that he was waiting to barn you.
I just wanted to point out a few problems I had with your post Qfish that jumped out at me. It's about the only thing I can manage to do at the moment
Your first quote of Gricky's was in response to Kah's which was post #43. Well before your post. It explains why he was talking about the grammar gaming. Take another look between that time. Several other people mentioned potential misspellings.
At this point in the game Eron, luck, lenken and yuro all had one post. Which Gricky forgot about one of the one-x posters and also completely forgot about LenKens post. I want to stress that nothing thus far is scummy per se, but shows Grickys mindset of being slightly divorced from the thread: not completely worried about being accurate. Certainly not rereading. In my mind, this is either lazy town or scum. Scum wont care about being reading the thread carefully because they already know everyones alignment, and lazy town are, well, lazy.
Words to live by?
Your Vitek/Gricky quote is just backwards. I don't know if it was on purpose to make Gricky look bad or because you were in a hurry.
Here is the original quote from Vitek where he voted for me (you have as coming from Gricky)....and Here is the source for Gricky's followup.
This jumps out at me is Gricky not really bothering to comprehend what hes reading, again, either a scum or lazy tell.
The kicker to the argument is that Gricky is posting a lot and providing a lot of content -- more or equal to pretty much everyone in the game. And yet there's these huge holes in his reading. The fact that hes clearly doing a lot of work means its not laziness. Which only leaves scum. It makes perfect sense -- the exact details of posts don't matter as much to scum because their not actually trying to deduce alignments. Instead, they seek weakness and go for a mislynch. Gricky imo is providing all sorts of content to seem townie, without doing the careful reading and thinking that a real townie would do.
You keep saying that, and barring normal minor mistakes that any of us can make you have several really LARGE mistakes on your first content post. It seems like you didn't really do much of anything you claimed to do as a "real townie".
Read the case on me and I won't respond till tomorrow as it's late and I want to sleep, but I'll say two things. First, QF is mostly pointing out these timing errors or laziness reads, when they are neither of those, but rather QF's misinterpretation of those events. Will show how tomorrow. Second, even if they were somehow timing errors I don't see how it strongly suggests that I'm scum.
More tomorrow. Night all.
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Not really. It's not about the content of what hes posting, its about the preparation behind it. There's an infinite amount of WIFOM when considering the content -- would scum push another scum's wagon, would they push a townie wagon so hard so early, etc etc etc. I'm much happier looking at the preparation and realizing that its almost impossible for Gricky's mindset to be townie.
Gricky called Vitek on waiting for you before posting his reasoning, stating that he was looking for something to barn. I believe this is completely wrong, since Vitek had already struck out on his own from you and stated that he didnt find FoxLets level of reservation to be the issue, although he was still making a meta argument.
I didn't say anything about Vitek's ability to make a reason up if caught in a trap, obviously he is capable of doing so. My argument is that breadcrumbing a reason as to how his thought process differs from yours in his initial vote directly contradicts the idea that he was waiting to barn you.
So then you're willing to completely discount the possibility that Vitek was wary in his decision to attack Foxlet in the event that my statement was, in fact, a trap?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Summary: Scum team is Vitek, Zenjo, and LuckNorris. Any questions?
I really wish people didn't do this so early in the game. Not so oddly especially when it is a player like you Iso. It just screams tunnelling and the player is going to do there damnedest to drag us upon their chosen course and damn all consquences. Especially when people like Quietfish come in with his seagull attack.
Zenjo: go back and read the exchange between me and WG again about the soft claim he did not come out and fully answer the question until I rephrased it. You appear to be making the same mistake that QF has just made and got questions and responses out of order.
Foxlet: I think I see the same thing Iso does on GT and yuri and if we are on the same page I concur. Apologies for being so cryptic.
LN: I don't particularly like that unvote it seems you caved to quick and don't seem to have strength in your convictions. Go check out WG's response in LBG when I wanted him to unvote Mephit day 2.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Keeping an open mind at this point. I don't like certain individuals but not willing to tie them into a scum team at this point.
Suffice to say the people on my watch list are:
Vitek: He appears to be flailing alot and not making a solid defense
Quietfish: coming in and crapping over the whole thread has just rung major alarm bells.
Until his unvote LN hadn't run any flags up with us as I think he is playing similar to how he played Day 1 of LBG in just following someone arround. To our cost he picked Seppel then and latched onto you now.
Zenjo needs to ignore me for a while and post more about the rest of the game before I get a read off him. Most votes against me I just take as null tells unless they start coming in excessive numbers.
And the obligatory you, I don't want you running off and doing something foolish. Part of the reason why your trap rubbed us up the wrong way was you appeared to latch onto the newb player and wanted the early day 1 lynch. I can understand why you did it. Still don't like it.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The timing mainly, he receives a prob from Seppel and then comes in and drops his bomb and tell us we need to wait on his reasoning for a couple of hours. Will go back and do a re read but I think I agree with Fox that it appears that he has cause and effect reversed at certain points.
It has also served to shift attention away from Vitek which could make sense if Vitek is a scum PR and QF is just a goon.
Blesh I don't like that last bit very much it is too speculative at this point but will file it away as something to consider for later when we get more from the pair of them.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I thought you didn't want to flood post quite so much this game Do I need to distract you more in other parts of the forum :D.
Do you mind if I don't answer that last question. At this point I am just reading players on their idividual merits/flaws and not willing to tie anyone together at this point particularly not to the point of chaining lynches together.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Foxlet: Just seen you are being mentored by Hex, ask her if she sees the same thing Iso and I have regarding GT and Yuri and if she can explain it. I think that is something she is allowed to do. Just wait on Seppels response just incase he is not happy with it.
I was going to ask him in thread but he won't answer it here. Drop him a PM to confirm it is ok.
I don't want to be responsible for ruining your fun and getting you modkilled.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
Not much really, seeing more scum reads on Vitek than him.
He is still playing really scummy, but seems to be tunnel-visioning Kahedron too much right now. He doesn't really seem to be focusing on anyone else, and still staunchly defends his random, terrible vote. Maybe he's more than leaning scum now that I think more about it.
I agree with Kahedron, I am also suspicious of QF's bomb and timing. Guess he'll have to post more for me to get a more solid read.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@ LN: I am getting flashbacks to the later half of LBG when Raging Levine was all over us. This is likely to be just as bad for the attack dog but won't give us the rest of the scum team.
I also really wish you would have more confidence to speak with your own voice as it just reads that you are alternately following Iso and me. Which is very bad as both of us have a track record of doing odd things we need to get pulled back on.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
If you don't think I'm not scumhunting, why is it suspicious to you that I am scumhunting, and aware of that fact? Moreover, if you think I'm scumhunting, how does that make me scum? I feel like you want to call me scum strictly on the premise that I would be voting you if I had three votes, but are trying not to lash out so as to not seem scummy for OMGUS. So instead, you're doing the next best thing for yourself and calling me scummy town.
You keep twisting my words to defend yourself. The bolded part is somewhat my point. You aren't just aware of it, you stated it twice in the same post.
Zenjo: go back and read the exchange between me and WG again about the soft claim he did not come out and fully answer the question until I rephrased it. You appear to be making the same mistake that QF has just made and got questions and responses out of order.
The timing mainly, he receives a prob from Seppel and then comes in and drops his bomb and tell us we need to wait on his reasoning for a couple of hours. Will go back and do a re read but I think I agree with Fox that it appears that he has cause and effect reversed at certain points.
It has also served to shift attention away from Vitek which could make sense if Vitek is a scum PR and QF is just a goon.
Blesh I don't like that last bit very much it is too speculative at this point but will file it away as something to consider for later when we get more from the pair of them.
I don't have cause and effect reversed at any point. I did mis tag two quotes that Fox pointed out, Vitek and Gricky have misattributed quotes that should be flip-flopped.
Regardless, its clear to me that no one else is keen on my argument. I'm not one to beat a dead horse, so I'll let it go -- I just ask that people keep it in mind later on.
I still don't think I like the Vitek wagon. I need to reread and see where I'm at.
The important thing to note is that neither mine nor Vitek's posts was referring to the spelling soft claim someone suggested, and yet Gricky responded to at least one of them as if it were. This is a minor point as Gricky has later said his above post was intended as a joke, but the fact that he didn't correctly grasp the nature of what he was responding to is telling, and should be kept in mind.
I responded to you, and you did mention the softclaim in your post. Specifically the part where you say "Yeah, I've always thought of softclaims as largely useless". So, that makes this point a misrep. And an especially dirty one at that, considering that you ignored the content in your own post to make your point.
At this point in the game Eron, luck, lenken and yuro all had one post. Which Gricky forgot about one of the one-x posters and also completely forgot about LenKens post. I want to stress that nothing thus far is scummy per se, but shows Grickys mindset of being slightly divorced from the thread: not completely worried about being accurate. Certainly not rereading. In my mind, this is either lazy town or scum. Scum wont care about being reading the thread carefully because they already know everyones alignment, and lazy town are, well, lazy.
First, I'll admit to possible being lazy town there, as I'm not going to reread the 4-5 pages of random there. All I remember were specific names that either posted nothing or very little.
Second, you are ignoring the part of the post that totally refutes everything you are saying. That was a crucial turning point in the game, right after we exit RVS. The post before mine was Iso setting the trap with the Foxlet vote, mine was after Iso, quoting him with and agreement to his "Let's do this", saying I'm ready to move on to scumhunting too, providing a very protown mindset if you ask me.
Third, I questioned the people I did because I knew they had low post counts ITT. Whether they had one or none was too small of a difference to matter, either way they still have a low post count. I didn't confront YJ because she's on my town list, but I damn sure pestered everyone else.
Lastly, YOU CONTRADICT YOURSELF SIR! Check the bolds in the quote. So, nothing so far is scummy, yet my actions create a dichotomy that makes me either lazy or scum, maybe both? That's what you are saying right?
Vitek is clearly not waiting to barn Iso. Vitek stated that he didn't find the problem with Foxlet to be an increased degree of reservation in her posts. This jumps out at me is Gricky not really bothering to comprehend what hes reading, again, either a scum or lazy tell.
One vague line about something he found does not his reasoning make. Sure, he drops a weirdly-worded hint at what he's thinking, but how hard is it to tie that in with a barn that he would make? Not so hard methinks. I'm comprehending what I'm reading just fine. I just don't think that Vitek's half a line at the end of his vote is enough to clear him from barning in the future.
It wasn't explicitly stated, but the clear implication from the previous page and a half of posting is that the red flags are Luck following Iso around. Missing that is again, a lazy or scum tell. Even if he wasn't sure, a better, more actively read question would have looked something like "Hey Iso -- were there any red flags besides Luck following you around?"
See, I didn't actually think that's what Iso was on about with Luck. I thought she may have been picking up some scummy material from Luck's posts, not just that he was following Iso. That was more of a misunderstanding of Iso's comment by me than anything else. Still, when I ask about the red flags, its a pretty all encompassing question. You suggest that I ask for red flags that aren't the puppying issue. I just asked for red flags in general. That should give me clarification of the puppying issue and any other potential red flags that Iso was talking about.
Also, remember, that whole ordeal may have been clear to you, but I'm not you. At the time, I had just finished a 12 hour shift in 100 degree weather. My mind was not exactly at it's peak performance level so I didn't pick up on the puppying also being the red flags. My bad. That doesn't point to me being scum or having a lazy mindset at all, whatsoever.
Vitek twice stated before Gricky posted the above that the comparisons he was drawing were to Fox's Cirque RVS stage. Gricky somehow misses that. Again, lazy or scum, with a side of scum blatantly ignoring things to make a case.
I understood that Vitek is comparing the RVS of cirque to the RVS of this game. My argument was that he's comparing the random stages and finding that she's more random in this game and it means NOTHING. The game is in Random Voting Stage, an area designed for randomness. So she wasn't so random in her first game and now she's more random in her second. He's trying to make that into a meta argument that she's scum. You know what that says to me? She's becoming more comfortable with Mafia and the way it works. It's not a tell whatsoever, as most things in the RVS aren't.
Also, read the rest of that case on Vitek and tell me I didn't understand that he was comparing the games. In paragraph I wrote above the bit that you failed to quote, I extensively write about his two game comparison. That's a paragraph that you happened to leave out of your Lazy=Scum case or whatever you want to call it. It's a misrep all the way.
The kicker to the argument is that Gricky is posting a lot and providing a lot of content -- more or equal to pretty much everyone in the game. And yet there's these huge holes in his reading. The fact that hes clearly doing a lot of work means its not laziness. Which only leaves scum. It makes perfect sense -- the exact details of posts don't matter as much to scum because their not actually trying to deduce alignments. Instead, they seek weakness and go for a mislynch. Gricky imo is providing all sorts of content to seem townie, without doing the careful reading and thinking that a real townie would do.
That's about it for the Gricky case at the point where I posted earlier. I read through everything else, and nothing changed my mind, but I haven't had time to deeply analyze it yet and I need to get to bed. I do want to mention that I can't think of a single town motvation for Gricky town thing out there at us, but I can think of several scum ones.
As far as other players go, I'm incredibally wary of Iso right now. Something seems off. I haven't had a chance to go through and pin down what it is my instinct is responding to yet, but my instinct is screaming scum.
I think the Vitek wagon is scum-driven, and I think Vitek is town.
I don't really have solid reads on anyone else.
So your case is comprised of misunderstanding, misrepresentation and the selective quoting of relevant information. Also fancy statements like the bolded at the end, also misreps. Man, I can't help but think that if you nailed me as scum with laziness and such, you should be able to throw a whole list of suspects down.
Wait, no, just a hunch on Iso and nothing else. You've been tunnelvisioning me this whole time, while posting little else. I think it's possible you are the lazy one, the scummy one for posting a rushed case of misrepresented facts. Foxlet made a good argument to this effect.
Not really. It's not about the content of what hes posting, its about the preparation behind it. There's an infinite amount of WIFOM when considering the content -- would scum push another scum's wagon, would they push a townie wagon so hard so early, etc etc etc. I'm much happier looking at the preparation and realizing that its almost impossible for Gricky's mindset to be townie.
Gricky called Vitek on waiting for you before posting his reasoning, stating that he was looking for something to barn. I believe this is completely wrong, since Vitek had already struck out on his own from you and stated that he didnt find FoxLets level of reservation to be the issue, although he was still making a meta argument.
I didn't say anything about Vitek's ability to make a reason up if caught in a trap, obviously he is capable of doing so. My argument is that breadcrumbing a reason as to how his thought process differs from yours in his initial vote directly contradicts the idea that he was waiting to barn you.
You seem dead set on saying the bolded phrase as many times as people will let you. Why don't you lay your reasoning out for that. Tell me your mindset, your thought process on how it's impossible for me to be a townie? I don't think it's impossible at all, and in fact it is highly probably for me to be a townie based on my play. But I just don't see how you can have me 100% scum based on your posted case.
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Who was that masked man anyway?
MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
I don't have cause and effect reversed at any point. I did mis tag two quotes that Fox pointed out, Vitek and Gricky have misattributed quotes that should be flip-flopped.
Regardless, its clear to me that no one else is keen on my argument. I'm not one to beat a dead horse, so I'll let it go -- I just ask that people keep it in mind later on.
I still don't think I like the Vitek wagon. I need to reread and see where I'm at.
With his tunnelvisioned rail against me with no other content in game and his staunched defense that Vitek is a townie, I'm beginning to wonder if QF isn't just a scum who knows Vitek is town and wants to get townie points from not being on his wagon and defending him. Basically his entire game so far has been in defense of Vitek.
That's WIFOM I know, I'm WIFOMing myself, but damn I just get that gut feeling from that last post.
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Who was that masked man anyway?
MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
You keep twisting my words to defend yourself. The bolded part is somewhat my point. You aren't just aware of it, you stated it twice in the same post.
I'm not sure how that makes me suspect, given that I make statements like that all the time.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Vitek: For the record read post 204 very carefully that is the correct way to mount a defense.
GT: What is your experience level? If you are new that makes it look even more spectacular and it already reads pretty good. If I have read your bread crumb correctly I am almost ready to confirm both you and Yuri.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
Not really. It's not about the content of what hes posting, its about the preparation behind it. There's an infinite amount of WIFOM when considering the content -- would scum push another scum's wagon, would they push a townie wagon so hard so early, etc etc etc. I'm much happier looking at the preparation and realizing that its almost impossible for Gricky's mindset to be townie.
In answer to the last question...yes. I'm sure Wheat, Iso, Proph and Kah have all done it several times when they were scum. Go back and read the thread again. Somewhere early on Iso made a comment to Eron about finding scum. It was based on trying to figure out MOTIVES for what they would do not just what they were saying in the thread.
Having said that, so far I don't see anything you have brought up in regards to Gricky's motives behind his content or preparation besides scumhunting. Granted, I'm not willing to give him a free pass, but I have him definitely more on the town side than I have you at the moment.
Regardless, its clear to me that no one else is keen on my argument. I'm not one to beat a dead horse, so I'll let it go -- I just ask that people keep it in mind later on.
I still don't think I like the Vitek wagon. I need to reread and see where I'm at.
I don't like this even more. You haven't even tried to express why you didn't like Viteks wagon. Is it because if we end up lynching Vitek you don't want to be seen as championing him?
You basically ran in, said Gricky is scum...Oh wait...you guys aren't buying it.... I'll drop it for now...who should I look at now
Foxlet, if quietfish find someone else he'd rather pursue, depending on who it is, will you give me your take on that, given that you seem to think he's scum?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Foxlet, if quietfish find someone else he'd rather pursue, depending on who it is, will you give me your take on that, given that you seem to think he's scum?
Well that's what we are here for correct?
At the moment I have him leaning scum...or at least to be watched. I don't like his actions or how he has played up until now. I also don't like the implied soft defense towards Vitek. If you don't like the case on him, tell us why. In not doing so it just seems like he is distancing himself in the case that we do lynch Vitek and he flips scum.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Wow, a lot has happened since last night. Welcome Proph. I dropped from CCC&G because I'm moving this month and couldn't spend as much time with it as I wanted.
Quietfish's argument against TG really didn't do anything for me as it seems to be out of order as well as being based on "town wouldn't do x, y and z". Well I'm learning that you can't take that at face value.
I'm still confident in a Vitek vote for the reasons I mentioned before.
I'll also say that I am completely lost on the GT / breadcrumb / Yuri thing. I can't for the life of me figure out what I am missing.
Anyway, to reaffirm, i'm going to vote Vitek at this point, but need a votecount. I think he's L-3 but I am not positive.
@Foxey: Wouldn't know. Zenjo has more completed scum games than I have. Once hex/seppel get back to you should be able to see why I atleast am willing to mostly clear Yuri. Only worry is that GT could be running one hell of a gambit and appears to have the skill to pull it off. Also do us a favor don't just follow Iso or me atm we appear to have picked up LN more than 1/4 of the game potentially going in the wrong direction is not useful. Hell pick on me if you want analysing my own play I am about to clear 2 people on a single breadcrumb that it is possible that I am misreading 1 of whom has barely checked in.
@ Prophy: How goes the read through? Not seen a summary so presume you are still part way through it. Got any issues/concerns you want to raise or you content atm?
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
To the first bold part: So, you weren't sure of her scumminess and your vote wasn't "firm"? Then why vote? There are plenty of other ways of expressing your suspicion, such as FoS or just simply stating "I think player x is suspicious.". Let me tell you something: A vote is a vote is a vote is a vote. Whether you mean it to be rock solid or not doesn't matter, because it is by nature a rock solid thing. Suspicion doesn't lynch people, votes do. Suspicion helps, yeah, but without the vote you have nothing. So what you are saying is that you are willing to throw your vote around with reckless abandon. That's pretty scummy if you ask me.
To the second bold: I seem to remember bolding specific parts of your quotes and calling you scummy for those and other specific actions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't ever recall posting your quotes and just calling the whole thing scummy. Parts of them yes. All of them no. Also, it's no my problem that your content seems to be laden with scummy things. I just point it out. I'll also point out now your attempt to devalue my arguments by saying I just call everything you do scummy. I've only called you scummy since you started acting scummy.
Honestly, it doesn't matter if you vote or unvote after the trap goes off, its the fact that the trap went off on you that matters. Your sticking with the vote and the explanations to follow have been the real insight. The trap just started the whole thing.
Would love to hear from this. Also love to know how he can determine my amount of text read. Sure I ask questions, and their might be answers in the thread that I missed, but I don't know how that makes me scum. In fact, asking questions, regardless of the presence of answers, is a clear sign of a protown mindset if you ask me. But let's hear the presentation.
@Foxlet: I have perfectly acceptable and sound reasoning for putting YJ on my town list. I can explain it when the proper time comes but now is not that time. I knew when I listed her as town that people would find it odd, so I hope you will trust me when I say I have a perfectly valid reason for it and that maybe we can discuss on day 2 or so.
Now you can barn either Kah or Eron...
Then why would you ask someone else to answer it?
Oh look at that. You asked Eron what he thought about it completely out of nowhere, then conveniently had the same opinion as him.
This just rubs me the wrong way.
Here's something interesting.
In posts 40 and 50 you talk about ending RVS. Then later in the game(post 93) use the idea as part of your case against Iso.
So your saying scum don't scumhunt? (appear to scumhunt)
How is telling someone to stop following you scumhunting?
I don't recall anyone saying you aren't scumhunting, so why are you trying to drill the idea into our heads?
Not barning, merely asking for opinion. I asked Eron for his opinions, and clearly stated that I didn't want to make any opinions to taint Kah's answer. At that point it's Eron's call whether or not he wants to answer.
I agreed with Eron, yes. Why not? There are only two options here, if I were to state that I did see something I would be barning Vitek and If I said I didn't see anything I would be barning Eron. There is no way out.
My Mafia Stats - My Helpdesk
G Omnath, Locus of Mana U Arcum Dagsson BUG The Mimeoplasm GW Gaddock Teeg X Karn, Silver Golem
So...your serious vote became a non-serious vote? Can you explain how that makes sense?
Why would you attack him for thinking everything you do is scummy? How is that not OMGUS?
LN, have you played as scum before? If so, what game?
So you just admitted that there's nothing there, then? Why on earth would you think Foxlet is scum, in that case? Moreover, why would you vote one of the people to call you on it? Your play is erratic and I cannot make sense of it.
I don't care if LN is on this wagon anymore, I think your actions are not coming from a town mindset.
FTR, Gricky, asking questions isn't always indicative of a pro-town mindset. Some scum players fill their scum game with asking questions so it seems like they're scumhunting.
Scum like to try to appear to scumhunt. That doesn't mean they succeed. Why the loaded question?
I don't like being tied to players that I think are scum and LuckNorris was (and is) setting off alarm bells all over the place - so, nice misrep. And I never said anyone accused me of not scumhunting - I was clarifying that I was not intending to be mean, but rather, that my intention was to give my opinion on LuckNorris's actions. Obviously it was lost in translation through my attempt at humor.
I'm curious as to why this post of yours reads like it's condoning LN's actions and then condemning them at the same time. So please, explain.
Totally calling the scum team as Vitek, LN, and Zenjo.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I've played as scum once, in Neon Genesis Evangelion Mafia. I was lynched Day 2.
Why do you keep using cryptic language to discredit me, Iso? First you say I raised a red flag, and now you say I am setting all sorts of alarm bells. Can you please go into more detail?
Well your already wrong, I'm town.
We'll see how it plays out. Vitek is scum and Zenjo is more leaning right now.
My Mafia Stats - My Helpdesk
G Omnath, Locus of Mana U Arcum Dagsson BUG The Mimeoplasm GW Gaddock Teeg X Karn, Silver Golem
You are using scumhunting as logic that your are not scum, yet both alignments can scumhunt (or appear to scumhunt). This and your second self-delcaration of scumhunting right after that is rubbing me the wrong way.
I'm not condoning his actions. How did you read it like that?
For sure! The ever mysterious and up until now silent Qfish has appeared, dropped a bomb and departed. I'm awaiting to see what their reasoning is.
Granted, there has been something about Gricky that bothers me but not nearly enough as LN or Vitek. I'm putting it down right now as just gut feel and telling myself to keep an eye on him.
This is why I don't like to "pressure" vote people. I see it used often round here and I'm not very fond of it. Its a chance for people to jump wagons easy and hide their votes easily.
Primarily addressed above. Vitek is doing what several other players do. You might not like it and I don't have to like it but it's a pretty common tactic.
You might have a perfectly acceptable and sound reason for it, but as I've mentioned before. I trust no one I can see one of 2 reasons for this.
One is that you are scum, and KNOW Yuriko is town. This would also explain why you would want to discuss it on day 2 or so. It would conveniently give you a "safety" net so long as you didn't do anything super scummy. We would be looking elsewhere and giving you a "free ride" as it were.
Second option is there is a Daytime investigative PR which seems very unlikely given this is basic.
Oh...a third that I just thought of is something to do with your flavor in your Role PM. Which again, I would have to wonder how you would know about Yuriko's flavor or Role as well?
I'll be sure to read Days 1 and 2 of NGE, then.
I'm not sure how I'm being cryptic - you're moderating your statements heavily when you express your opinions an overall your language is scummy to me.
What changed your opinion on Zenjo?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So now you're accusing me of not scumhunting? Please exemplify how.
Gee, I dunno. Who are you voting for?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Foxlet, I have an idea on why Gricky may be placing yuriko as town. But I'm not gonna tell 'til he's ready to do so.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
No.
Do you want me to change my vote every time I point out something that I see scummy?
I leave my vote where it is because Kahedron is at the top of my suspect list.
LuckNorris is a close second, and for the third I'm not sure yet, either you or Vitek right now.
RE: Kahedron: Please show me how Kahedron is scummier than LuckNorris.
I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that LN, Vitek, and Zenjo are all connected at the hip and that I have a scum read on all of them - was this game really that easy?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You both are pointing fingers at each other, its a bit silly! Zen's play here almost reminds me of his play in Cirque. It's not quite the same, but similar.
You should know that Zen. You were doing it in Cirque as scum reasonably well You can't stick out, so usually you have to appear to scumhunt with everyone else. Which Iso addresses below...
Yeah, I remember seeing that in at least one game. It's why I don't auto think asking questions = scumhunting = town
Proph, welcome
Hello.
Late-RVS stuff -
Oh, Iso, I got you a present!
Here, open it:
Vote Eron, unvote Eron because of CCC&G stuff. Hey, Eron, why did you drop out of CCL April and the MCC?
GrickyTimmick: Are you related?
----
I need to read this game. Anyone mind providing me with a summary?
Summary: Scum team is Vitek, Zenjo, and LuckNorris. Any questions?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I don't think your not scumhunting.
Most of Kahedrons posts rub me the wrong way. Like when he asks Wheat if there are any spelling errors in his role PM after Wheat already answered the question.
I do know that. My point is that Iso saying that he doesn't look scummy because he is scumhunting is making me suspicious of him.
If you don't think I'm not scumhunting, why is it suspicious to you that I am scumhunting, and aware of that fact? Moreover, if you think I'm scumhunting, how does that make me scum? I feel like you want to call me scum strictly on the premise that I would be voting you if I had three votes, but are trying not to lash out so as to not seem scummy for OMGUS. So instead, you're doing the next best thing for yourself and calling me scummy town.
How does that rub you the wrong way? RE: Kahedron
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Very early, Gricky posted this:
Which directly followed my post of :
but also could have potentially been responding to:
The important thing to note is that neither mine nor Vitek's posts was referring to the spelling soft claim someone suggested, and yet Gricky responded to at least one of them as if it were. This is a minor point as Gricky has later said his above post was intended as a joke, but the fact that he didn't correctly grasp the nature of what he was responding to is telling, and should be kept in mind.
The theme continues here:
At this point in the game Eron, luck, lenken and yuro all had one post. Which Gricky forgot about one of the one-x posters and also completely forgot about LenKens post. I want to stress that nothing thus far is scummy per se, but shows Grickys mindset of being slightly divorced from the thread: not completely worried about being accurate. Certainly not rereading. In my mind, this is either lazy town or scum. Scum wont care about being reading the thread carefully because they already know everyones alignment, and lazy town are, well, lazy.
And the game has really started now, so the next few incidents are much more telling
No. NO NO NO NO NO. To clarify (bold added for emphasis):
Vitek is clearly not waiting to barn Iso. Vitek stated that he didn't find the problem with Foxlet to be an increased degree of reservation in her posts. This jumps out at me is Gricky not really bothering to comprehend what hes reading, again, either a scum or lazy tell.
It wasn't explicitly stated, but the clear implication from the previous page and a half of posting is that the red flags are Luck following Iso around. Missing that is again, a lazy or scum tell. Even if he wasn't sure, a better, more actively read question would have looked something like "Hey Iso -- were there any red flags besides Luck following you around?"
Vitek twice stated before Gricky posted the above that the comparisons he was drawing were to Fox's Cirque RVS stage. Gricky somehow misses that. Again, lazy or scum, with a side of scum blatantly ignoring things to make a case.
The kicker to the argument is that Gricky is posting a lot and providing a lot of content -- more or equal to pretty much everyone in the game. And yet there's these huge holes in his reading. The fact that hes clearly doing a lot of work means its not laziness. Which only leaves scum. It makes perfect sense -- the exact details of posts don't matter as much to scum because their not actually trying to deduce alignments. Instead, they seek weakness and go for a mislynch. Gricky imo is providing all sorts of content to seem townie, without doing the careful reading and thinking that a real townie would do.
That's about it for the Gricky case at the point where I posted earlier. I read through everything else, and nothing changed my mind, but I haven't had time to deeply analyze it yet and I need to get to bed. I do want to mention that I can't think of a single town motvation for Gricky town thing out there at us, but I can think of several scum ones.
As far as other players go, I'm incredibally wary of Iso right now. Something seems off. I haven't had a chance to go through and pin down what it is my instinct is responding to yet, but my instinct is screaming scum.
I think the Vitek wagon is scum-driven, and I think Vitek is town.
I don't really have solid reads on anyone else.
Also, I'm curious as to why you think Vitek couldn't have just easily made something up pertaining to why he "thought" Foxlet could be scum in case he did, in fact, stumble into a trap (or came up with it after realizing his stumble).
Couple that with his poor reactions to being voted and I'm not convinced.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Not really. It's not about the content of what hes posting, its about the preparation behind it. There's an infinite amount of WIFOM when considering the content -- would scum push another scum's wagon, would they push a townie wagon so hard so early, etc etc etc. I'm much happier looking at the preparation and realizing that its almost impossible for Gricky's mindset to be townie.
Gricky called Vitek on waiting for you before posting his reasoning, stating that he was looking for something to barn. I believe this is completely wrong, since Vitek had already struck out on his own from you and stated that he didnt find FoxLets level of reservation to be the issue, although he was still making a meta argument.
I didn't say anything about Vitek's ability to make a reason up if caught in a trap, obviously he is capable of doing so. My argument is that breadcrumbing a reason as to how his thought process differs from yours in his initial vote directly contradicts the idea that he was waiting to barn you.
Your first quote of Gricky's was in response to Kah's which was post #43. Well before your post. It explains why he was talking about the grammar gaming. Take another look between that time. Several other people mentioned potential misspellings.
Words to live by?
Your Vitek/Gricky quote is just backwards. I don't know if it was on purpose to make Gricky look bad or because you were in a hurry.
Here is the original quote from Vitek where he voted for me (you have as coming from Gricky)....and Here is the source for Gricky's followup.
You keep saying that, and barring normal minor mistakes that any of us can make you have several really LARGE mistakes on your first content post. It seems like you didn't really do much of anything you claimed to do as a "real townie".
More tomorrow. Night all.
So then you're willing to completely discount the possibility that Vitek was wary in his decision to attack Foxlet in the event that my statement was, in fact, a trap?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I really wish people didn't do this so early in the game. Not so oddly especially when it is a player like you Iso. It just screams tunnelling and the player is going to do there damnedest to drag us upon their chosen course and damn all consquences. Especially when people like Quietfish come in with his seagull attack.
Zenjo: go back and read the exchange between me and WG again about the soft claim he did not come out and fully answer the question until I rephrased it. You appear to be making the same mistake that QF has just made and got questions and responses out of order.
Foxlet: I think I see the same thing Iso does on GT and yuri and if we are on the same page I concur. Apologies for being so cryptic.
LN: I don't particularly like that unvote it seems you caved to quick and don't seem to have strength in your convictions. Go check out WG's response in LBG when I wanted him to unvote Mephit day 2.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Suffice to say the people on my watch list are:
Vitek: He appears to be flailing alot and not making a solid defense
Quietfish: coming in and crapping over the whole thread has just rung major alarm bells.
Until his unvote LN hadn't run any flags up with us as I think he is playing similar to how he played Day 1 of LBG in just following someone arround. To our cost he picked Seppel then and latched onto you now.
Zenjo needs to ignore me for a while and post more about the rest of the game before I get a read off him. Most votes against me I just take as null tells unless they start coming in excessive numbers.
And the obligatory you, I don't want you running off and doing something foolish. Part of the reason why your trap rubbed us up the wrong way was you appeared to latch onto the newb player and wanted the early day 1 lynch. I can understand why you did it. Still don't like it.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It has also served to shift attention away from Vitek which could make sense if Vitek is a scum PR and QF is just a goon.
Blesh I don't like that last bit very much it is too speculative at this point but will file it away as something to consider for later when we get more from the pair of them.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
Where would your reads stand if Vitek were town/same question if he were scum?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Do you mind if I don't answer that last question. At this point I am just reading players on their idividual merits/flaws and not willing to tie anyone together at this point particularly not to the point of chaining lynches together.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I was going to ask him in thread but he won't answer it here. Drop him a PM to confirm it is ok.
I don't want to be responsible for ruining your fun and getting you modkilled.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
Not much really, seeing more scum reads on Vitek than him.
He is still playing really scummy, but seems to be tunnel-visioning Kahedron too much right now. He doesn't really seem to be focusing on anyone else, and still staunchly defends his random, terrible vote. Maybe he's more than leaning scum now that I think more about it.
I agree with Kahedron, I am also suspicious of QF's bomb and timing. Guess he'll have to post more for me to get a more solid read.
BTW,
Welcome Proph!
My Mafia Stats - My Helpdesk
G Omnath, Locus of Mana U Arcum Dagsson BUG The Mimeoplasm GW Gaddock Teeg X Karn, Silver Golem
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I also really wish you would have more confidence to speak with your own voice as it just reads that you are alternately following Iso and me. Which is very bad as both of us have a track record of doing odd things we need to get pulled back on.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
You keep twisting my words to defend yourself. The bolded part is somewhat my point. You aren't just aware of it, you stated it twice in the same post.
ok.
First time you ask.
Wheat's answer clearly saying that he sees something but isn't sure if its a spelling error or not.
And you ask him specifically this time.
And he gives the same answer.
I don't have cause and effect reversed at any point. I did mis tag two quotes that Fox pointed out, Vitek and Gricky have misattributed quotes that should be flip-flopped.
Regardless, its clear to me that no one else is keen on my argument. I'm not one to beat a dead horse, so I'll let it go -- I just ask that people keep it in mind later on.
I still don't think I like the Vitek wagon. I need to reread and see where I'm at.
Welcome! Also, aside from the avvy, no, I am in no way connected. Nice try though.
I responded to you, and you did mention the softclaim in your post. Specifically the part where you say "Yeah, I've always thought of softclaims as largely useless". So, that makes this point a misrep. And an especially dirty one at that, considering that you ignored the content in your own post to make your point.
First, I'll admit to possible being lazy town there, as I'm not going to reread the 4-5 pages of random there. All I remember were specific names that either posted nothing or very little.
Second, you are ignoring the part of the post that totally refutes everything you are saying. That was a crucial turning point in the game, right after we exit RVS. The post before mine was Iso setting the trap with the Foxlet vote, mine was after Iso, quoting him with and agreement to his "Let's do this", saying I'm ready to move on to scumhunting too, providing a very protown mindset if you ask me.
Third, I questioned the people I did because I knew they had low post counts ITT. Whether they had one or none was too small of a difference to matter, either way they still have a low post count. I didn't confront YJ because she's on my town list, but I damn sure pestered everyone else.
Lastly, YOU CONTRADICT YOURSELF SIR! Check the bolds in the quote. So, nothing so far is scummy, yet my actions create a dichotomy that makes me either lazy or scum, maybe both? That's what you are saying right?
One vague line about something he found does not his reasoning make. Sure, he drops a weirdly-worded hint at what he's thinking, but how hard is it to tie that in with a barn that he would make? Not so hard methinks. I'm comprehending what I'm reading just fine. I just don't think that Vitek's half a line at the end of his vote is enough to clear him from barning in the future.
See, I didn't actually think that's what Iso was on about with Luck. I thought she may have been picking up some scummy material from Luck's posts, not just that he was following Iso. That was more of a misunderstanding of Iso's comment by me than anything else. Still, when I ask about the red flags, its a pretty all encompassing question. You suggest that I ask for red flags that aren't the puppying issue. I just asked for red flags in general. That should give me clarification of the puppying issue and any other potential red flags that Iso was talking about.
Also, remember, that whole ordeal may have been clear to you, but I'm not you. At the time, I had just finished a 12 hour shift in 100 degree weather. My mind was not exactly at it's peak performance level so I didn't pick up on the puppying also being the red flags. My bad. That doesn't point to me being scum or having a lazy mindset at all, whatsoever.
I understood that Vitek is comparing the RVS of cirque to the RVS of this game. My argument was that he's comparing the random stages and finding that she's more random in this game and it means NOTHING. The game is in Random Voting Stage, an area designed for randomness. So she wasn't so random in her first game and now she's more random in her second. He's trying to make that into a meta argument that she's scum. You know what that says to me? She's becoming more comfortable with Mafia and the way it works. It's not a tell whatsoever, as most things in the RVS aren't.
Also, read the rest of that case on Vitek and tell me I didn't understand that he was comparing the games. In paragraph I wrote above the bit that you failed to quote, I extensively write about his two game comparison. That's a paragraph that you happened to leave out of your Lazy=Scum case or whatever you want to call it. It's a misrep all the way.
So your case is comprised of misunderstanding, misrepresentation and the selective quoting of relevant information. Also fancy statements like the bolded at the end, also misreps. Man, I can't help but think that if you nailed me as scum with laziness and such, you should be able to throw a whole list of suspects down.
Wait, no, just a hunch on Iso and nothing else. You've been tunnelvisioning me this whole time, while posting little else. I think it's possible you are the lazy one, the scummy one for posting a rushed case of misrepresented facts. Foxlet made a good argument to this effect.
You seem dead set on saying the bolded phrase as many times as people will let you. Why don't you lay your reasoning out for that. Tell me your mindset, your thought process on how it's impossible for me to be a townie? I don't think it's impossible at all, and in fact it is highly probably for me to be a townie based on my play. But I just don't see how you can have me 100% scum based on your posted case.
With his tunnelvisioned rail against me with no other content in game and his staunched defense that Vitek is a townie, I'm beginning to wonder if QF isn't just a scum who knows Vitek is town and wants to get townie points from not being on his wagon and defending him. Basically his entire game so far has been in defense of Vitek.
That's WIFOM I know, I'm WIFOMing myself, but damn I just get that gut feeling from that last post.
I'm not sure how that makes me suspect, given that I make statements like that all the time.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
GT: What is your experience level? If you are new that makes it look even more spectacular and it already reads pretty good. If I have read your bread crumb correctly I am almost ready to confirm both you and Yuri.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
In answer to the last question...yes. I'm sure Wheat, Iso, Proph and Kah have all done it several times when they were scum. Go back and read the thread again. Somewhere early on Iso made a comment to Eron about finding scum. It was based on trying to figure out MOTIVES for what they would do not just what they were saying in the thread.
Having said that, so far I don't see anything you have brought up in regards to Gricky's motives behind his content or preparation besides scumhunting. Granted, I'm not willing to give him a free pass, but I have him definitely more on the town side than I have you at the moment.
I don't like this even more. You haven't even tried to express why you didn't like Viteks wagon. Is it because if we end up lynching Vitek you don't want to be seen as championing him?
You basically ran in, said Gricky is scum...Oh wait...you guys aren't buying it.... I'll drop it for now...who should I look at now
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Well that's what we are here for correct?
At the moment I have him leaning scum...or at least to be watched. I don't like his actions or how he has played up until now. I also don't like the implied soft defense towards Vitek. If you don't like the case on him, tell us why. In not doing so it just seems like he is distancing himself in the case that we do lynch Vitek and he flips scum.
Nope, I never posted anything even close to that.
My Mafia Stats - My Helpdesk
G Omnath, Locus of Mana U Arcum Dagsson BUG The Mimeoplasm GW Gaddock Teeg X Karn, Silver Golem
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Quietfish's argument against TG really didn't do anything for me as it seems to be out of order as well as being based on "town wouldn't do x, y and z". Well I'm learning that you can't take that at face value.
I'm still confident in a Vitek vote for the reasons I mentioned before.
I'll also say that I am completely lost on the GT / breadcrumb / Yuri thing. I can't for the life of me figure out what I am missing.
Anyway, to reaffirm, i'm going to vote Vitek at this point, but need a votecount. I think he's L-3 but I am not positive.
@ Prophy: How goes the read through? Not seen a summary so presume you are still part way through it. Got any issues/concerns you want to raise or you content atm?
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
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