2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Then why are you following me around like a puppy?
HEY ZENJO, we asked you a question. Was your vote on Kahedron serious? If so, on what grounds?
Following you around? Hardly.
Your "gambit" proved unsuccessful with me, so please elaborate on that statement. If I was truly following you around I would have voted on Foxlet already and voted Vitek. I have done neither of those things.
Zenjo's vote was scummy, even if you pointed it out first.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I disagree, I don't see anyone trying to rush the game. I feel like this game is moving slowly. Though I guess I really don't know though how long RVS usually lasts. In my first game (I'm in my 2nd and 3rd right now), RVS was already over by now.
@Kahedron: how is wanting to get out of RVS a scum tell?
...how can you still be asking if it was a joke vote?
As for reasoning, lets see...
I disagree with his reasoning. I don't see anyone trying to rush the game. I don't see how wanting to get out of RVS is a scum tell. People seem scummy to me when they tell someone what that person is doing(trying to rush the game).
Ya'll got busy I'll be catching up momentarily and posting some thoughts.
One thing stuck out as I was scrolling through....ZEN DOESN'T LIKE RVS!!! NOOOO! My heart... it is broken. I like it personally, it's shenanigans time. Just trying to transition from RVS to Srs business is the difficult part.
So, anyway, Srs business time now, be back shortly
You were among the first to bite on it and answer so you should be asking this yourself.
I participated because I knew the softclaim was a joke and would bring about zero change to the game state. So saying it would move us out of the RVS was just another joke on top of that. Basically, what I was saying was that if the intention was to move out of RVS, it was poorly designed to do so.
Well, maybe you are onto something with her. I read her posts in Cirque de Freak and there is something I noticed but I wouldn't call it as her being reserved. Vote Foxlet
I will wait for Kahedron before I post my reasoning as I don't want to spoil your fun.
I hate this so much. Vague bandwagoning in the Iso trap, but what I don't like the most is the line at the end. Vitek is waiting on Kahedron, after which Iso will post her reasoning. So basically, Vitek is waiting on Iso, for her reasoning, so that he can say "oh, yeah, those things! Exactly! We see eye to eye don't we Iso?"
Methinks Vitek's intentions were to barn Iso till death do them part. It may very well part them after all, more in Vitek's case.
Not had time to do a full read of Foxlet but if Cirque the freak is her only game of mafia I am not content using it as a basis of her town game with out a lot of convincing.
Now I am even more curious about why you want the RVS ended and why you picked Foxlet as opposed to some of the other players you have a history with like myself or Wheaties.
I can think of one reason leading to..
Vote Iso: You appear to be wanting to rush the game and have selected someone who has little verifiable backup to your meta argument against them.
I like this post. I don't like the vote, but not because I think he's scum. I just think his intentions are misguided. Getting out of RVS isn't a scum move when it runs it's course, and after a good 4-5 pages of RVS, maybe more, I think it had easily run it's course.
What I like here is that Kahedron is doing very protown work. He's digging into player meta, he's challenging questionable motives and he's actively scumhunting. Townie points. Scum points for people voting Kahedron.
Speak of the devil! Scum points for you sir Zenjo! However, as I'll explain later, I don't think Zenjo is scum from this. It just reflects very poorly on him. Note: This is a vote without a reason, a blank vote. I'll mention it later, but I want you to remember this.
My attack on Foxlet was a trap - a trap to see if people would bite, to see if an opportunistic player (probably of the scum nature) would leap on to the wagon with weak reasoning just to follow in the shadow of a more experienced player. Vitek fell into it.
I think it speaks well of you, Kah, that you saw what I was setting up and went straight for the source.
LuckNorris has been sending up red flags the whole time through this exchange.
Zenjo, what the hell is up with your vote? Is it a random vote or legitimate? If it's legit, what reason do you have for voting Kahedron?
Iso trap for some reason doesn't surprise me. I've never played a game with Iso up until this point, but for some reason I'm not shocked. I'm also leaning town at this point, although that is a very loose read considering the shenanigans Iso has pulled so far. But their pro-town sheninagans IMO.
ISO: Care to expand on the Red Flags that LuckNorris has been sending up? or did I miss your expansion somewhere else.
I expected it to be the case but then I thought it is too obvious as trap and you are probably really onto something.
I read her game and there really are differences so I wanted to pressure her a bit. If you look at both games she is much more likely to vote her, but I guess this could be explained by her playing her first game last time. What got me worried is that in the Cirque she started to get into game much faster than here. Here she is much more... random. In Cirque her comments, even in RVS, were more connected to game than in here. She very quickly managed to even share her opinion about some players while there is nothing like that here.
WHAT? Bolded is a fat sack of WIFOM. Like "But I knew it was a trap and so your results are skewed AHA!". Just because you say that you figured it was a trap after the trap is revealed doesn't make it true. From my standpoint, there was a trap, you became trapped and that's all that matters. The fact that you thrown in that bit of WIFOM about how you knew about it makes me feel like you were starting to squirm at the thought that you had been caught.
The reasoning behind the vote is confusing and shortsighted at best, scummy at worst and most probable. Remember how I said that Vitek was basically waiting on Iso's reasons hoping to copy those? That explains why these reasons are confusing. He acknowledges that this is only Fox's second game but still feels that it's ok to compare game 1 with game 2. Note that Fox hasn't played a completed scum game yet, meaning there is not meta for a scummy fox. Even if there is a significant difference in both games, it doesn't mean anything because we can't compare that difference in playstyle with a recorded scum Foxlet.
He also notes as part of his reasoning that Fox seemed more random here. Consider this: All of Fox's votes up until that point had been in RVS. That is Random Voting Stage. Yeah, I bet fox is being more random.
All in all, the reasoning doesn't actually reason anything, it just makes plain in sight observations. Using said observations without making an attempt at analysis makes me believe that this was rushed "reasoning" by caught-red-handed scum.
Although this does paint Vitek in a negative light, he can just be opportunistic n00b town. Zenjo's vote seems a lot more scummy to me than Vitek's.
Kahedron already stated by Iso's gambit was scummy, and even after that Zenjo voted Kahedron. I'm going to Vote: Zenjo.
I might unvote if Zenjo can properly explain himself, but until then my vote sticks.
WIFOM AHOY! Check the bold in that quote. A defense of a scummy action by another player with WIFOM. First, when I scum hunt, I look for scummy actions and pressure them, I don't worry about what could and could not be. That's WIFOM, the could and could not's. Like Vitek could just be a silly new guy, or he could be Scummy McScummerson, ruler of Scum Hill!
Also, what's the reasoning for the Zenjo vote here? Something to do with Kahedron and Iso's business. Zenjo's voting Kahedron for what he thinks is Kah putting words in Iso's mouth. I don't understand why Luck votes Zenjo here, just that he does. It feels more opportunistic than anything like "Hey, I just defended my scumbuddy in the line above and now I'm going to deflect attention away from him by going after this guy!". Thus, the vote on Zenjo.
Lastly, the line about Zenjo properly explaining himself. That's hilarious, I'll show you why here in a sec.
The fact that Vitek is trying to explain his obviously opportunistic vote is also worrying me. His explanation doesn't make much sense if you ask me...
Admits that the explaination by Vitek is poor, even though he just got done saying that he was probably newb town and brushing the subject off. Could this be Luck wanting to distance himself from his scumbuddy a bit? After a quick defense Luck jumps to quick suspicion. I call that fencesitting. And especially after the defense just two posts before, I also call it distancing. If Vitek flips scum, I'm looking all at LuckNorris.
I am not voting her because she hasn't given reads. I am voting her because in Cirque even her RVS posts were more tied to the game and she was more willing to comment on game and players from the go despite it was her first game. In here, it is just OOG stuff.
There is not much to go on and I am usually slow to build reads so what I can provide is very weak. I get town feeling on you (you seem similar to Cirque), had good feeling about GrickyTimmick until him being among first to jump on grammar thing and then calling it pointless, now I am quite unsure about him, and have Kahedron leaning scum (just gut), LuckNorris as leaning scum (but maybe it's just OMGUS) and Foxlet as leaning scum too (explained).
I am unsure about Iso and others are just too invisible for me to notice.
WHATWHATWHAT?! He admits his vote is based totally on the RVS play by Fox in 2 games. That's not only something that doesn't mean anything without a scum game to compare to, but it's also something that DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING AT ALL. RVS is terrible grounds for voting someone. Seriously that is.
Next paragraph he says he's "slow to build reads" yet the one on Foxlet happened almost as soon as Iso started the trap. That's pretty telling if you ask me, and it tells that Vitek was just seriously ready to bandwagon. The fact that he's continuing the support for his vote instead of just admitting that he's caught in a trap and didn't know what he was getting into makes me think he's scum too.
Lastly, a personal question from me to Vitek: You claim that your view of me changed when the "pointless" softclaim came up, as I was among the first to go with it. What importance did that softclaim have that changed your opinion so much? What did it change for the others that were involved?
I disagree, I don't see anyone trying to rush the game. I feel like this game is moving slowly. Though I guess I really don't know though how long RVS usually lasts. In my first game (I'm in my 2nd and 3rd right now), RVS was already over by now.
@Kahedron: how is wanting to get out of RVS a scum tell?
I like this post. This is the reasoning for the blind vote I mentioned earlier. I also felt like RVS was dragging and that the progression of the game was normal not forced. However, I don't think Kah is scum for saying so, as he was actively scumhunting with a passion when he made his claims. Zenjo reads as town because he's hunting down the only flawed point that Kah really makes. In his fury over Iso's trap, Kah calls Iso for forcing out of RVS.
Now, forcing out of RVS can be a scumtell, but in this case it was not. RVS had stagnated and if someone hadn't done something, the game would have stagnated.
I've played many newb townie games where I cased a person right off the bat for forcing out of RVS, which can be a scumtell because to get into night quicker, the scum must first get through day 1 quicker, which involves getting though RVS quicker too. It's a very vicarious argument, but one that I can understand. I didn't see it here, and I think the reason Kah did is because he's scumhunting too hard maybe, overworking himself a bit.
I see this as townie crossfire. One townie (Kah) makes points and accusations and another townie (Zenjo) sees a few points that look flawed and votes ensue. However, I see a townie mindset from both players.
Now, remember I mentioned that Zenjo's no-reasoning vote would hold significance? Now is that time. LuckNorris craftily shifted attention to Zenjo after his mystery vote and after Luck's defense of clearly scummy Vitek. Zenjo had no reasoning, sure, but Vitek had poor reasoning that was continually getting poorer, as I've pointed out. Luck even said himself that Vitek's reasoning was looking very shaky and he didn't like it, yet he kept on his Zenjo vote, saying he would back off if Zenjo could explain it well.
Would you rather vote a scummy player who has incredibly poor reasoning for their actions or vote for a player who has no explanation for their actions, only the actions themselves? Luck chose the second option. I personally would choose to let my suspicion of both be known, but let my vote go to the one with their poor reasoning already out on the table. I guess that's a matter of choice, but with Luck considering Zenjo's explanations as crucial to his vote, you would think that Vitek's explanations would have affected him more.
Vote Vitek
FoS:LuckNorris
@TOWN: Homework! I want Town/Scumlists from everyone. That should prove to be a good for discussion. Mine you ask?
Town: Iso, Kahedron, Zenjo, yukoraJasmine
Scum: Vitek, LuckNorris, third suspect not yet identified. Possibly lurky W_G
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Who was that masked man anyway?
MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
@Gricky - I will work on my list, but a question first:
How could you possibly have Yuriko as town when all he/she has had is an RVS post, an admittedly OMGUS post, the playgroup post and a V/LA post? I feel like you're trying to sneak one through here after an admittedly nice post so early in the game.
Vote Iso: You appear to be wanting to rush the game and have selected someone who has little verifiable backup to your meta argument against them.
I dunno about rushing the game Kah. It was going slow, IMO but I think that was due to holidays being thrown in there.
Also, if he used you or Wheaties it wouldn't have worked as well for a trap. You guys have too MUCH meta unfortunately. My thought (at the moment) is that it would be harder to tell who was opportunistic in voting vs who was just following along because of Iso.
I don't personally LIKE to be used for bait but I think a real vote (even if it's a fake) is better to get the ball rolling out of RVS than the soft claim idea. I was not personally in favor of it myself, but not for the reasons Quitfish (whoever that is) and Vitek were. They said it might lead to flavor gaming. I was not really in favor of it just because since it's my second game, I don't know how much even a little information gives the scum team. I'd rather give them a big fat NADA.
a trap to see if people would bite, to see if an opportunistic player (probably of the scum nature) would leap on to the wagon with weak reasoning just to follow in the shadow of a more experienced player. Vitek fell into it.
Probably of the scum nature, but it also doesn't account for newer players who are bumbling around making mistakes.
If you look at both games she is much more likely to vote her, but I guess this could be explained by her playing her first game last time. What got me worried is that in the Cirque she started to get into game much faster than here. Here she is much more... random. In Cirque her comments, even in RVS, were more connected to game than in here. She very quickly managed to even share her opinion about some players while there is nothing like that here.
I am not voting her because she hasn't given reads. I am voting her because in Cirque even her RVS posts were more tied to the game and she was more willing to comment on game and players from the go despite it was her first game. In here, it is just OOG stuff.
I'm sorry...but I laughed Still getting a chuckle as I write this as a matter of fact.
As I mentioned to Kah, I think in general this game was a bit slower to start. That is my opinion.
RVS, is just that Random and shenanigans, however if you actually read them both you would see that they both stayed pretty much in line with whatever came up at the time. I'll be nice and summarize for you though. Cirque RVS Manders and I poked fun at each other about fighting to the death from orders of Batman. Here I was poking fun at Wheaties because of the play on my name (and that we both like foxes). Make better sense?
As for the sharing of the opinions, it was because in that game everyone was pushing each other for any sort of opinions (and dear god, the lists ).
This terrible reasoning has earned you a place on my FoS list.
@ Wheat, are you voting for Iso just because he was being mean to LN or because you didn't like his trap?
Speak of the devil! Scum points for you sir Zenjo! However, as I'll explain later, I don't think Zenjo is scum from this. It just reflects very poorly on him. Note: This is a vote without a reason, a
blank vote. I'll mention it later, but I want you to remember this.
+scum points
not scum
That's not the way it works.
@TOWN: Homework! I want Town/Scumlists from everyone. That should prove to be a good for discussion. Mine you ask?
No thanks. Not now, at least.
Town: Iso, Kahedron, Zenjo, yukoraJasmine
Scum: Vitek, LuckNorris, third suspect not yet identified. Possibly lurky W_G
How are Zenjo (who you called scummy earlier) and especially YJ town while I'm scum?
...how can you still be asking if it was a joke vote?
As for reasoning, lets see...
I disagree with his reasoning. I don't see anyone trying to rush the game. I don't see how wanting to get out of RVS is a scum tell. People seem scummy to me when they tell someone what that person is doing(trying to rush the game).
Because post 108 reads to me like you still think we're in the RVS.
I have already placed a vote on Zenjo, please read the thread.
As much as I don't agree with you on this, I can't say you've been exactly scummy, at least not enough to warrant a vote just yet.
Your stances before your vote were noncommittal and I feel like your vote on Zenjo was only to alleviate pressure off of you - on top of the fact that I started going after Zenjo.
Of course I haven't been scummy. I'm scumhunting.
@Gricky: That's kind of exactly what I was saying about Vitek.
In regards to LN, I feel like I've explained up to this point rather sufficiently. It's mostly just every post of his is rubbing me the wrong way.
Also, I force-end the RVS quite frequently as either alignment.
Not particularly inclined to give a t/s list as I think I've made my stances quite clear at this point.
Eron, why aren't you more concerned with Gricky's other reads?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I merely stated that he could be n00b town from simple experience. When I was in my first few games, following more experienced players was a good way to be safe. Of course that's not a good idea, but newer players are attracted to the idea because I believe Mafia can be overwhelming as it has a steep learning curve. Vitek's vote was scummy, but he could easily be n00b town. I do have my suspicions of Vitek don't get me wrong, but it can go both ways. I wasn't staunchly defending Vitek, nor was I calling him 100% scum. You call it fence sitting, I call it my read. It may not be rock solid just yet, were not even at ten pages yet, what do you expect? Only future actions will tell whether or not Vitek is town.
I voted and am still voting for Zenjo because of the really opportunistic vote. He also defended Iso with weak reasoning, neither are confirmed town yet. Zenjo is playing rather scummy and Iso the opposite so I'm really unsure right now.
As for a T/S list. Not yet, not enough solid reads yet.
Your stances before your vote were noncommittal and I feel like your vote on Zenjo was only to alleviate pressure off of you - on top of the fact that I started going after Zenjo.
How were my stances noncommittal?
As with Eron, I really don't see what your getting at Iso. I've reviewed the RVS posts from Foxlet in both games (Cirque and this) and they seem similar. She is very characteristic in her posts from this stage, I don't really see much reservation.
I agreed with Eron in stating that I didn't know what you were trying to say. I clearly disagreed with you.
Why would I need to alleviate pressure if I didn't agree with your "scum" gambit on Foxlet?
Your stances before your vote were noncommittal and I feel like your vote on Zenjo was only to alleviate pressure off of you - on top of the fact that I started going after Zenjo.
@Gricky: That's kind of exactly what I was saying about Vitek.
Both you and Gricky are making good points about Vitek and LN. Vitek is bothering me more at this point than LN. After catching up this afternoon, Vitek was my #1 scum target. LN is, different and I'm still working out why...I'm going to have to take better notes.
@ Wheat can you try and tell me what put you off about Iso's reaction to LN. I don't like name calling and I'll call anyone out on it (You should remember me doing that in Cirque)....But something about the Iso vs LN thing just has me bothered. It's why I'm going to go back and look at it again and take better notes than the ones I did the first time round.
Not being mean. Scumhunting.
Then go back and read yourself again. There was no reason to call LN a dog... Scum hunting or not. You could have said it better I know you have a way with words, use them.
I know Yuriko is V/LA, but what is up with quietfish? Only 2 posts and non since RVS. We also have a replacement (eventually) for Len to look forward to at some point. I just don't want to jump to conclusions and say out of everyone posting, all the scum are here.
Can you clarify that? What else would we use besides content?
Mindset. Motives.
@LN: Your stances were noncommital because you gave yourself room to back out, and as I said, they were very tip-toey. As for pressure, I was referring to the pressure that I was putting on you early on.
@Foxlet: I was asking if he was a puppy because I felt like he was following everything I did and I didn't like it. I wasn't calling him a dog - I was telling him to back off.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@LN: Your stances were noncommital because you gave yourself room to back out, and as I said, they were very tip-toey. As for pressure, I was referring to the pressure that I was putting on you early on.
@Foxlet: I was asking if he was a puppy because I felt like he was following everything I did and I didn't like it. I wasn't calling him a dog - I was telling him to back off.
Then yes. One of the reasons I asked was because it looks like he slipped Yuriko in there as town so it could be pointed out later that he had him as town, even though it was done with no basis as far as I can see.
My belief is that it was done with a motive, but as of now I'm not sure what. That's why I asked for the reasons GT feels he is town.
@ Wheat can you try and tell me what put you off about Iso's reaction to LN. I don't like name calling and I'll call anyone out on it (You should remember me doing that in Cirque)....But something about the Iso vs LN thing just has me bothered. It's why I'm going to go back and look at it again and take better notes than the ones I did the first time round.
It was the way that he asked it insistently over the course of several posts. I see only malicious intent in dragging it out the way he did rather than just getting to the point immediately. It makes him either scummy or mean, and the Iso I know isn't that mean.
And the fact that he tried to call it scumhunting doesn't help much. I agree it was a valid point, but the way he went about it was just atrocious.
@Gricky - I will work on my list, but a question first:
How could you possibly have Yuriko as town when all he/she has had is an RVS post, an admittedly OMGUS post, the playgroup post and a V/LA post? I feel like you're trying to sneak one through here after an admittedly nice post so early in the game.
If I meant to sneak her in, I either would have minimized the print or not mentioned her at all. I understand her low post count ITT, but she's on my town list. Call it a strong gut feeling, or whatever you want to call it. That's all I'm going to expand on the matter. Don't let one questionable name on my town list deter you from the points I've made, it doesn't discredit them one bit. I'm afraid that I won't be able to say very much about the subject at this time.
Yesh. Yesh it is, in the context of the post. It's a line by line reading, each quoted post in chronological order. So, when looking at Kah's reaction to Iso and my analysis where I say that "People who vote Kah get scum points", naturally I give a few away to Zenjo. He did act a bit scummy, but where my analysis and views change is when he comes under pressure for it. Other players pressure him and forget about Vitek and his responses and explanation for his vote strike me as very townie. Not only does it remind me of my play very early on in Mafia as town, but it also strikes me as town with the timing of his vote. The situation was escalating due to Iso's trap and as soon as all was revealed, votes would be flying for several reasons. I think Zenjo's explanations read honest and believe his issue with Kah to be a misguided townie on townie incident.
So yeah, that is the way it works. I can say one thing at one point in time and another thing at another point in time due to the evolution of the game.
How are Zenjo (who you called scummy earlier) and especially YJ town while I'm scum?
And why does everyone keep brushing off the T/S lists? at least a reason you are saying no?
You are a prominent player who has stayed fairly quite. I don't trust that semi-lurk playstyle. You aren't scum because of something you did, it's just a gut read. I've explained Zenjo a few times and YJ to the extent that I wish to explain for the time being.
I merely stated that he could be n00b town from simple experience. When I was in my first few games, following more experienced players was a good way to be safe. Of course that's not a good idea, but newer players are attracted to the idea because I believe Mafia can be overwhelming as it has a steep learning curve. Vitek's vote was scummy, but he could easily be n00b town. I do have my suspicions of Vitek don't get me wrong, but it can go both ways. I wasn't staunchly defending Vitek, nor was I calling him 100% scum. You call it fence sitting, I call it my read. It may not be rock solid just yet, were not even at ten pages yet, what do you expect? Only future actions will tell whether or not Vitek is town.
I voted and am still voting for Zenjo because of the really opportunistic vote. He also defended Iso with weak reasoning, neither are confirmed town yet. Zenjo is playing rather scummy and Iso the opposite so I'm really unsure right now.
As for a T/S list. Not yet, not enough solid reads yet.
It's really a problem with your personal timeline in the matter. You acknowledge that Vitek is scummy looking, but then brush it off with the easiest "could be newb town" excuse and jump onto Zenjo, who's offending post was literally just unvote, vote soandso. Then Vitek posts more poor reasoning and you comment AGAIN that it looks bad, but you won't abandon your vote on Zenjo because you are still waiting to hear more from him.
It's like you are a detective with two suspects, one of which is building a mighty case against himself, but you won't pursue that guy because you are two stubborn to give up? The evidence is there against Vitek and you have admitted it a few times, but you either excuse it or ignore it each time.
I like to fully take WIFOM out of my voting process. It clouds the thoughts too easily. In this scenario, I see scummy action, multiple scummy action from Vitek, so I pursue it with my vote and a case. My thoughts don't worry about that players experience level and it's impact on their actions. All I use for my vote is what I can see and read ITT. It's the most reliable info I have. You want a good example where sparing the new player from scummy action cost the town the game? Go read Shrek mafia, pretty sure it's Shrek, a basic from a few years ago. Blue_Ghost acts scummy for a good portion of the game and we run a case up on him. Another member of the town cites his inexperience, and it takes a while for the wagon to die because he's just so scummy, but the inexperience argument wins out. Ghost endgames the mafia to victory, good for him, bad for us for not pursuing scummy actions in the first place.
Lastly, You say Zenjo's vote was opportunistic. Is that the prime reason you are voting him? Lay it out there, all your reasoning, everything that makes you want to vote Zenjo, I wanna know about it.
You keep flipping this mindset too. Everytime I mention something about Vitek you say "Oh, well, the reads are weak so far, no rock-solid evidence" but I talk about Zenjo and you become a firm believer in your vote, implying that you do have some solid leads of some sort.
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Who was that masked man anyway?
MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
It was the way that he asked it insistently over the course of several posts. I see only malicious intent in dragging it out the way he did rather than just getting to the point immediately. It makes him either scummy or mean, and the Iso I know isn't that mean.
And the fact that he tried to call it scumhunting doesn't help much. I agree it was a valid point, but the way he went about it was just atrocious.
So I tried to make a clever remark (that was admittedly a bit watered down because of how long it took to deliver) and that makes me scum?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Zenjo: disagreeing with someone does not equal the other person is scum. Particularly when the player in question has a history of charging off in odd directions with little or no back up and not willing to accept any deviation. Something which left unchecked is very likely to be damaging to the town.
Last time Iso did it in Supernatural he got lucky in that fluffynoob cracked and was scum. For a more damaging example see Seppels play day 1 of Little Big Planet where it cost us a VT and exposed the cop.
Unvote Iso: Ok for now I'll bite that it was a gambit to see what falls off but reserve the right to come back to you later, just provide a little reasoning next time you go off on a hunt. And bad joke is bad joke.
Vote Vitek: GT has a point you left your self open to it being a gambit and his continued defense of his actions look odd.
I note you have not unvoted yet Vitek do you still regard Foxlet as scum or just leaving it there for the time being.
@ GT: Also not going to do a full T/S list as got to many nulls on there at the moment for it to be of any use. Suffice to say I have my eye on Iso as I don't want him charging off on to many wagons with little or no reasoning and WG seems a little off, jumping on Iso for a smallish thing could be oppertunistic to get rid of one the more exprienced players in the game.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
You keep flipping this mindset too. Everytime I mention something about Vitek you say "Oh, well, the reads are weak so far, no rock-solid evidence" but I talk about Zenjo and you become a firm believer in your vote, implying that you do have some solid leads of some sort.
I never said that my vote on Zenjo was a rock-solid read either. He had an opportunistic, weak vote and I thought that was extremely scummy. Maybe I was a bit hasty, but I can see Vitek's following of Iso in a townie mindset. Just because he followed Iso doesn't mean he's totally scum. Is there a possibility he is n00b scum? Yes. Is there a possibility Zenjo is n00b scum? Yes.
While Vitek's reasonings are really bad (like I should vote him bad), think about it. He is n00b town caught into a trap, what would you do in your first few games? It would be incredibly hard to dig your way out of that hole. I can totally see his actions in a scum mindset, but I can see them in a town mindset as well.
Zenjo's actions I can't see in a town mindset. A random vote saying he doesn't like the RVS after Kah voted Iso? Something isn't right there.
Maybe if Zenjo unvoted, and apologized for his vote I might change my mind. But the fact that he's sticking to his terrible vote is bothering me.
@LN both Zenjo and Vitek have the same amount of started games at 2. Zenjo has had his first game in the Cirque du Freak finish which is more than Boardgame mafia has which is Viteks game. Why are you allowing the newb card to be played by 1 and not the other as both players have made iffy plays in this game.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
Kah, while I think Wheat's jump to me was a little odd, I'm not sure it makes him scum - it could just be standard paranoia-of-Iso. We'll see how it plays out.
Also, Supernatural was totally not a gambit - the guy claimed scum in Pulp Fiction in his sig and was scum; then he claimed scum in Supernatural in his sig - 1+1=2. Obviously it's null now that he's done it since being town in Modern Family, but it was legitimate, plus his slip in Supernatural of calling my case against him "evidence" - but we've already had this conversation, so I won't bore the people in this thread with it.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Also, Supernatural was totally not a gambit - the guy claimed scum in Pulp Fiction in his sig and was scum; then he claimed scum in Supernatural in his sig - 1+1=2. Obviously it's null now that he's done it since being town in Modern Family, but it was legitimate, plus his slip in Supernatural of calling my case against him "evidence" - but we've already had this conversation, so I won't bore the people in this thread with it.
Agreed it was not a gambit but as starting player it was worrying as hell when you did it Remember that was my first game.
Need to go back and read WG I don't remember him being that fast to jump on a wagon. Don't forget he has only 2 scum games completed so we don't have much to compare to atm.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
And why does everyone keep brushing off the T/S lists? at least a reason you are saying no?
1. It's very early.
2. I haven't developed reads on a significant portion of the playerbase.
3. I think of T/S lists in large part as a discussion tool when there isn't much discussion going on. There's enough discussion going on.
You are a prominent player who has stayed fairly quite. I don't trust that semi-lurk playstyle. You aren't scum because of something you did, it's just a gut read. I've explained Zenjo a few times and YJ to the extent that I wish to explain for the time being.
I haven't seen a whole lot yet to reply to, but this'll change. I'm also modding a game on the side.
Need to go back and read WG I don't remember him being that fast to jump on a wagon. Don't forget he has only 2 scum games completed so we don't have much to compare to atm.
Iso: He replaced into Amnesia as your Scum buddy didn't he? Can you see any parrallels here to his play in that?
I personally don't count Amnesia. Summary of all I did that game:
"Hey guys I'm replacing in."
"We should NK tezz. Whoops I thought that was the scumchat sorry."
"VOTE-MOVING POWERS ACTIV-ah crap too late gl scum."
Basically, a gambit to try to end the game early because I was going to be lynched anyhow. The other two I actually did stuff.
That was about 4 months ago, IIRC. I think it's not relevant meta at this point, especially because he was a replacement and the first thing I told him to do was claim scum.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
WG: Whilst your reads in LBP were way off you had a logical reason for all of your wagon hops. Remember I was clearing you cause you had a logical towney reason for painting me as scum with my crap awful play this just seems a little quick and oppertunistic.
Iso: So if we discount Amnesia he only has 2 scum games then :p.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Vitek: Cirque due Freak had got to post 102 within 24 hours of the game starting with 17 pregame posts that is a hell of a lot of information to go off. It took us 3 days to get there and where only 50 odd posts deep at the 24 hour mark. Of course her play is going to be different.
Also do us a favor replace the full stop in the post of mine you snipped with a question mark see if changes your opinion then answer the damn question anyway.
Your entire last post is just you attacking the people on your wagon and I hate to say it making yourself look worse.
That being said by my very rough count you are @ 3 votes mine, GT's and Iso's unless I have missed any movement, 2 off the claim threshold, I'd rather you not be shoved up to that quite so soon this day has a lot of life left in it yet.
@ mod: any chance of a vote count please??
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I merely stated that he could be n00b town from simple experience. When I was in my first few games, following more experienced players was a good way to be safe. Of course that's not a good idea, but newer players are attracted to the idea because I believe Mafia can be overwhelming as it has a steep learning curve. Vitek's vote was scummy, but he could easily be n00b town. I do have my suspicions of Vitek don't get me wrong, but it can go both ways. I wasn't staunchly defending Vitek, nor was I calling him 100% scum. You call it fence sitting, I call it my read. It may not be rock solid just yet, were not even at ten pages yet, what do you expect? Only future actions will tell whether or not Vitek is town.
I dunno about that LN, I don't know any experienced player who is currently playing in the same game who would want you "following them around". It looks bad for BOTH of you. It's what mentors are for. You learn best by messing up sometimes (and asking questions later). With all the intricacies of such a game, I'd rather trust no one instead of being lynched for trusting the wrong person
That being said, Vitek isn't as "new" as he said. How does that change your read on him?
If I meant to sneak her in, I either would have minimized the print or not mentioned her at all. I understand her low post count ITT, but she's on my town list. Call it a strong gut feeling, or whatever you want to call it. That's all I'm going to expand on the matter. Don't let one questionable name on my town list deter you from the points I've made, it doesn't discredit them one bit. I'm afraid that I won't be able to say very much about the subject at this time.
Gricky, You had me to there. You should have just stopped at gut feeling IMO. You have some good thoughts, I like them but as Eron brought up why have her on there? It's not so much sneaking her in so much as she really hasn't had ANY content. It would be akin to putting quietfish on your town list. They have NO CONTENT. Therefore null tell and at best would be neutral, or should be You bring up some good points, however because of this I've decided to keep an eye on you for now.
So I tried to make a clever remark (that was admittedly a bit watered down because of how long it took to deliver) and that makes me scum?
Pst, it wasn't clever...I still stand by what I was saying before. I knew you were telling him to back off, however there are better ways to say it. IMO, that does not make you scum, but you are a crafty one...with that, I'll drop it
Yeah, this game is definitely slower and it is something that can excuse you but you 1 day (real-time) into game you porvided short list of reads and posted your opinion on few people and here it took my action to post some reads.
I have to give you of all people attacking me, your attack seem most sincere and believable.
Actually, if you read the differences between the games again. Here, Iso had to break RVS with his stunt to get people talking and info gathering. Your action had nothing to do with it, unless you mean your vote on me...then yes.
I'm just trying to point out that your vote on me which was solely based on RVS which I really enjoy BTW (:p at Zen) is null.
On the other hand this one seems to me as terribly opportunistic vote from someone who smells easy lynch which will allow him to get away with it.
You really think I should have unvote when I got attacked for my vote? This would be probably biggest admitance of guilt possible and I had no reason so far to do it. It sounded like you were itching for me to unvote to call me on it. I'll grant it to you then. Unvote, Vote Kahedron.
Possibly. He could very well be scum wanting to push you to claim range to weed out PR. So far, he's felt rather town to me so he could just want to lynch the person who so far has seemed the most scummy.
He also called for vote count so we wouldn't accidentally lynch you Personally, I would like to vote for you, but I know you have more to say so I want to give you a chance to say it.
Not to mention, LN and couple others still give me the willies and I have yet to pinpoint why exactly.
What I like here is that Kahedron is doing very protown work. He's digging into player meta, he's challenging questionable motives and he's actively scumhunting. Townie points. Scum points for people voting Kahedron.
And you got this feeling from 1 post? He did protown work by what? Digged into meta? By saying he didn't read Cirque when he was asked to? And waht was the scumhunting he did? He only attacked Iso for trying to rush game. If Kahedron is scum, you are as well.
How do you figure?
This is how I see it. You voted for me purely on RVS stage since that's only to the point in this game we had gotten to. Why would Kah feel the need to read the entire game unless he REALLY wanted to? Gricky saying Kah was scumhunting doesn't mean diddly squat.
I said her play in RVS seemed more random here than in RVS before. It is hard to explain, but it is really my feeling that her play there was more tied to that game even in RVS. I might be wrong, sure, but I see it there.
Try your best to explain it then?
As I said in my first response to you, I believe that all my RVS while not tied to the game at hand were all related. And it's RVS, which for me is pure shenanigans time
I would also like to point out I am not such noob as you thing. I have played several (I think 9) games on different site and I think it is safe to say I learned to play a bit. I also read about 10-20 games here. I suppose this will cause me more harm than good but I should let you know this.
P.S. Is it possible, when quoting post, to have quotes in that post included in my quote?
Not really. Since you read Cirque, you know that I've only played the one game but I've read a few games. Even with that, I have some pretty bad gaps in my mafia knowledge that only actually PLAYING games will fill.
In answer to your other question...yes, I think it's a total PIA but sometimes worth it as to not to be confusing. Hopefully one of the other more experienced players already PM'd you how to do it (if not I can).
@LN both Zenjo and Vitek have the same amount of started games at 2. Zenjo has had his first game in the Cirque du Freak finish which is more than Boardgame mafia has which is Viteks game. Why are you allowing the newb card to be played by 1 and not the other as both players have made iffy plays in this game.
I already explained, Vitek's play an initial reaction I believe could be from a townie mindset, Zenjo's doesn't really seem all that townie to me.
@Vitek: You seem to be digging himself a deeper hole. Dude, really? Voting for Kahedron? This seems really retaliatory and the reasoning behind it isn't very sound. I agree with Kah that you should have unvoted Foxlet and not gone on this big tangent. Your extreme defense against people on your wagon is also troubling.
I would also like to point out I am not such noob as you thing. I have played several (I think 9) games on different site and I think it is safe to say I learned to play a bit. I also read about 10-20 games here.
Oh...um....WHAT?!?!
I thought you were n00b town, then you say your experienced? You've played more games than me? Dear god, then why did you fall in to that trap? I'm sorry, but your explanation just doesn't ring any bells of an experienced player mindset.
I said her play in RVS seemed more random here than in RVS before. It is hard to explain, but it is really my feeling that her play there was more tied to that game even in RVS. I might be wrong, sure, but I see it there.
What does this even mean? Why would you vote for someone, merely on feeling? It just doesn't add up.
I don't want this day to end quickly because their is still much to discuss but I really don't have a choice anymore Vitek. Not voting you would just be a mistake so I'm going to swallow my pride and:
Unvote. Vote: Vitek.
I know Iso might call me a puppy, or tell me to fetch or some other remark but I swore Vitek was n00b town. I still have my eye on Zenjo however, he needs to post more for me to get a better read.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I didn't care about the damn trap! Iso kept mentioning Foxlet so I went and checked her play. I saw something what I perceived scummy so I voted her. I couldn't care less if there was someone trying to cathc scum with his fake vote on Fox. I saw something worth a vote, so I threw it.
Why the hell should I, when Iso revealed he was setting trap, unvote?
Let's say it woul happen elsewhere. What if some player tries to use trap with attacking one player and asking others to read the second player's previous play to lure scums into joining? What if town player picks on it, reads seconds player's meta and finds the 3rd player is scum. What is he supposed to do, then? Leave it alone because someone might be setting up trap?
Why should be voting for someone based on feelings in time when we were just leaving RVS bad?
I think the situation would be a lot more believable if there were really something there. Everyone else but you can't really see anything scummy about Foxlet.
In the scenario you described, it would be beneficial to go after player three if you had a solid case and you knew that the 3rd player was scum. The whole fact that no one else sees what you see makes this really troublesome.
This whole "feeling" explanation seems to me like you are trying to get your way out of being trapped because you did fall for the trap. If you said something about Foxlet and it actually made sense I would have gone "Huh, maybe this guy is on to something..." but with this current reason for voting Foxlet I just can't do that.
From a n00b town standpoint, it could have easily been a mistake. Now, it's inexcusable. There is nothing scummy there. At least not that I and many others can see.
I just have a quick second on my phone before work so ill leave this here:
Vote: grickytrimmick
Ill have reasoning in like 8 or 9 hours after i get off work, but its mostly based on his high text produced to text read ratio. Theres a couple clear misreps and questions he asks with answers already stated. Which makes the content he produced seem more like scum trying to seem townie than townie actually trying to help. Ill be much more specific after work.
Provisional vote count as Luck didn't get the memo
Vitek is @ L-3 with and has Foxlet interested in voting for him. You still don't mind holding off your vote Foxlet as now the below has been dropped I definitely don't want this day to end just yet.
I just have a quick second on my phone before work so ill leave this here:
Vote: grickytrimmick
Ill have reasoning in like 8 or 9 hours after i get off work, but its mostly based on his high text produced to text read ratio. Theres a couple clear misreps and questions he asks with answers already stated. Which makes the content he produced seem more like scum trying to seem townie than townie actually trying to help. Ill be much more specific after work.
You better have some stunning reasoning as I don't think we are reading the same game. Just gone back and had a re read of GT's posts and the biggest misrep is what you have just posted.
As GT's posts have been close the events he has been talking about and some issues are still to be resolved.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
Ok, so I just completed a reread here and my vote was going to Vitek for all the reasons mentioned up to now including him admitting he assumed it was a trap followed by some weak reasoning. He kept his vote on Fox until he was called on it. Then we get the OMGUS vote on Kah...
However, QFish has just shown up with a left field vote so I would rather not puzh Vitek to claim until we hear more info from QF.
WG: Whilst your reads in LBP were way off you had a logical reason for all of your wagon hops. Remember I was clearing you cause you had a logical towney reason for painting me as scum with my crap awful play this just seems a little quick and oppertunistic.
I can accept this.
In regards to the whole Vitek thing, I haven't looked too in-depth at him yet. I'll take a much harder look oh say tomorrow morning.
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Then why are you following me around like a puppy?
HEY ZENJO, we asked you a question. Was your vote on Kahedron serious? If so, on what grounds?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Following you around? Hardly.
Your "gambit" proved unsuccessful with me, so please elaborate on that statement. If I was truly following you around I would have voted on Foxlet already and voted Vitek. I have done neither of those things.
Zenjo's vote was scummy, even if you pointed it out first.
My Mafia Stats - My Helpdesk
G Omnath, Locus of Mana U Arcum Dagsson BUG The Mimeoplasm GW Gaddock Teeg X Karn, Silver Golem
....108
LN, you most certainly been have following me around. You just haven't placed a vote yet because that would be committal.
Man I want to vote for 3 people right now.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
...how can you still be asking if it was a joke vote?
As for reasoning, lets see...
I disagree with his reasoning. I don't see anyone trying to rush the game. I don't see how wanting to get out of RVS is a scum tell. People seem scummy to me when they tell someone what that person is doing(trying to rush the game).
I have already placed a vote on Zenjo, please read the thread.
As much as I don't agree with you on this, I can't say you've been exactly scummy, at least not enough to warrant a vote just yet.
My Mafia Stats - My Helpdesk
G Omnath, Locus of Mana U Arcum Dagsson BUG The Mimeoplasm GW Gaddock Teeg X Karn, Silver Golem
Unvote Wheat
Ya'll got busy I'll be catching up momentarily and posting some thoughts.
One thing stuck out as I was scrolling through....ZEN DOESN'T LIKE RVS!!! NOOOO! My heart... it is broken. I like it personally, it's shenanigans time. Just trying to transition from RVS to Srs business is the difficult part.
So, anyway, Srs business time now, be back shortly
This is why I don't like RVS. During RVS I have a very hard time seeing scummy things and generating conversation that would actually contribute.
I participated because I knew the softclaim was a joke and would bring about zero change to the game state. So saying it would move us out of the RVS was just another joke on top of that. Basically, what I was saying was that if the intention was to move out of RVS, it was poorly designed to do so.
I hate this so much. Vague bandwagoning in the Iso trap, but what I don't like the most is the line at the end. Vitek is waiting on Kahedron, after which Iso will post her reasoning. So basically, Vitek is waiting on Iso, for her reasoning, so that he can say "oh, yeah, those things! Exactly! We see eye to eye don't we Iso?"
Methinks Vitek's intentions were to barn Iso till death do them part. It may very well part them after all, more in Vitek's case.
I like this post. I don't like the vote, but not because I think he's scum. I just think his intentions are misguided. Getting out of RVS isn't a scum move when it runs it's course, and after a good 4-5 pages of RVS, maybe more, I think it had easily run it's course.
What I like here is that Kahedron is doing very protown work. He's digging into player meta, he's challenging questionable motives and he's actively scumhunting. Townie points. Scum points for people voting Kahedron.
Speak of the devil! Scum points for you sir Zenjo! However, as I'll explain later, I don't think Zenjo is scum from this. It just reflects very poorly on him. Note: This is a vote without a reason, a blank vote. I'll mention it later, but I want you to remember this.
Iso trap for some reason doesn't surprise me. I've never played a game with Iso up until this point, but for some reason I'm not shocked. I'm also leaning town at this point, although that is a very loose read considering the shenanigans Iso has pulled so far. But their pro-town sheninagans IMO.
ISO: Care to expand on the Red Flags that LuckNorris has been sending up? or did I miss your expansion somewhere else.
WHAT? Bolded is a fat sack of WIFOM. Like "But I knew it was a trap and so your results are skewed AHA!". Just because you say that you figured it was a trap after the trap is revealed doesn't make it true. From my standpoint, there was a trap, you became trapped and that's all that matters. The fact that you thrown in that bit of WIFOM about how you knew about it makes me feel like you were starting to squirm at the thought that you had been caught.
The reasoning behind the vote is confusing and shortsighted at best, scummy at worst and most probable. Remember how I said that Vitek was basically waiting on Iso's reasons hoping to copy those? That explains why these reasons are confusing. He acknowledges that this is only Fox's second game but still feels that it's ok to compare game 1 with game 2. Note that Fox hasn't played a completed scum game yet, meaning there is not meta for a scummy fox. Even if there is a significant difference in both games, it doesn't mean anything because we can't compare that difference in playstyle with a recorded scum Foxlet.
He also notes as part of his reasoning that Fox seemed more random here. Consider this: All of Fox's votes up until that point had been in RVS. That is Random Voting Stage. Yeah, I bet fox is being more random.
All in all, the reasoning doesn't actually reason anything, it just makes plain in sight observations. Using said observations without making an attempt at analysis makes me believe that this was rushed "reasoning" by caught-red-handed scum.
WIFOM AHOY! Check the bold in that quote. A defense of a scummy action by another player with WIFOM. First, when I scum hunt, I look for scummy actions and pressure them, I don't worry about what could and could not be. That's WIFOM, the could and could not's. Like Vitek could just be a silly new guy, or he could be Scummy McScummerson, ruler of Scum Hill!
Also, what's the reasoning for the Zenjo vote here? Something to do with Kahedron and Iso's business. Zenjo's voting Kahedron for what he thinks is Kah putting words in Iso's mouth. I don't understand why Luck votes Zenjo here, just that he does. It feels more opportunistic than anything like "Hey, I just defended my scumbuddy in the line above and now I'm going to deflect attention away from him by going after this guy!". Thus, the vote on Zenjo.
Lastly, the line about Zenjo properly explaining himself. That's hilarious, I'll show you why here in a sec.
Admits that the explaination by Vitek is poor, even though he just got done saying that he was probably newb town and brushing the subject off. Could this be Luck wanting to distance himself from his scumbuddy a bit? After a quick defense Luck jumps to quick suspicion. I call that fencesitting. And especially after the defense just two posts before, I also call it distancing. If Vitek flips scum, I'm looking all at LuckNorris.
WHATWHATWHAT?! He admits his vote is based totally on the RVS play by Fox in 2 games. That's not only something that doesn't mean anything without a scum game to compare to, but it's also something that DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING AT ALL. RVS is terrible grounds for voting someone. Seriously that is.
Next paragraph he says he's "slow to build reads" yet the one on Foxlet happened almost as soon as Iso started the trap. That's pretty telling if you ask me, and it tells that Vitek was just seriously ready to bandwagon. The fact that he's continuing the support for his vote instead of just admitting that he's caught in a trap and didn't know what he was getting into makes me think he's scum too.
Lastly, a personal question from me to Vitek: You claim that your view of me changed when the "pointless" softclaim came up, as I was among the first to go with it. What importance did that softclaim have that changed your opinion so much? What did it change for the others that were involved?
I like this post. This is the reasoning for the blind vote I mentioned earlier. I also felt like RVS was dragging and that the progression of the game was normal not forced. However, I don't think Kah is scum for saying so, as he was actively scumhunting with a passion when he made his claims. Zenjo reads as town because he's hunting down the only flawed point that Kah really makes. In his fury over Iso's trap, Kah calls Iso for forcing out of RVS.
Now, forcing out of RVS can be a scumtell, but in this case it was not. RVS had stagnated and if someone hadn't done something, the game would have stagnated.
I've played many newb townie games where I cased a person right off the bat for forcing out of RVS, which can be a scumtell because to get into night quicker, the scum must first get through day 1 quicker, which involves getting though RVS quicker too. It's a very vicarious argument, but one that I can understand. I didn't see it here, and I think the reason Kah did is because he's scumhunting too hard maybe, overworking himself a bit.
I see this as townie crossfire. One townie (Kah) makes points and accusations and another townie (Zenjo) sees a few points that look flawed and votes ensue. However, I see a townie mindset from both players.
Now, remember I mentioned that Zenjo's no-reasoning vote would hold significance? Now is that time. LuckNorris craftily shifted attention to Zenjo after his mystery vote and after Luck's defense of clearly scummy Vitek. Zenjo had no reasoning, sure, but Vitek had poor reasoning that was continually getting poorer, as I've pointed out. Luck even said himself that Vitek's reasoning was looking very shaky and he didn't like it, yet he kept on his Zenjo vote, saying he would back off if Zenjo could explain it well.
Would you rather vote a scummy player who has incredibly poor reasoning for their actions or vote for a player who has no explanation for their actions, only the actions themselves? Luck chose the second option. I personally would choose to let my suspicion of both be known, but let my vote go to the one with their poor reasoning already out on the table. I guess that's a matter of choice, but with Luck considering Zenjo's explanations as crucial to his vote, you would think that Vitek's explanations would have affected him more.
Vote Vitek
FoS:LuckNorris
@TOWN: Homework! I want Town/Scumlists from everyone. That should prove to be a good for discussion. Mine you ask?
Town: Iso, Kahedron, Zenjo, yukoraJasmine
Scum: Vitek, LuckNorris, third suspect not yet identified. Possibly lurky W_G
How could you possibly have Yuriko as town when all he/she has had is an RVS post, an admittedly OMGUS post, the playgroup post and a V/LA post? I feel like you're trying to sneak one through here after an admittedly nice post so early in the game.
I dunno about rushing the game Kah. It was going slow, IMO but I think that was due to holidays being thrown in there.
Also, if he used you or Wheaties it wouldn't have worked as well for a trap. You guys have too MUCH meta unfortunately. My thought (at the moment) is that it would be harder to tell who was opportunistic in voting vs who was just following along because of Iso.
I don't personally LIKE to be used for bait but I think a real vote (even if it's a fake) is better to get the ball rolling out of RVS than the soft claim idea. I was not personally in favor of it myself, but not for the reasons Quitfish (whoever that is) and Vitek were. They said it might lead to flavor gaming. I was not really in favor of it just because since it's my second game, I don't know how much even a little information gives the scum team. I'd rather give them a big fat NADA.
Probably of the scum nature, but it also doesn't account for newer players who are bumbling around making mistakes.
Iso, don't be mean
I'm sorry...but I laughed Still getting a chuckle as I write this as a matter of fact.
As I mentioned to Kah, I think in general this game was a bit slower to start. That is my opinion.
RVS, is just that Random and shenanigans, however if you actually read them both you would see that they both stayed pretty much in line with whatever came up at the time. I'll be nice and summarize for you though. Cirque RVS Manders and I poked fun at each other about fighting to the death from orders of Batman. Here I was poking fun at Wheaties because of the play on my name (and that we both like foxes). Make better sense?
As for the sharing of the opinions, it was because in that game everyone was pushing each other for any sort of opinions (and dear god, the lists ).
This terrible reasoning has earned you a place on my FoS list.
@ Wheat, are you voting for Iso just because he was being mean to LN or because you didn't like his trap?
Vitek (2): LenKenneth, Iso
Iso (2): Kahedron, Wheat_Grinder
GrickyTimmick (1): Vitek
EronTheRelentless (1): quietfish
Zenjo (1): LuckNorris
LuckNorris (1): yurikojasmine
Kahedron (1): Zenjo
Not Voting (3): GrickyTimmick, EronTheRelentless, Foxlet
With 12 alive, it is 7 to lynch.
+scum points
not scum
That's not the way it works.
No thanks. Not now, at least.
How are Zenjo (who you called scummy earlier) and especially YJ town while I'm scum?
Combination of the two. Mostly the way he reacted to LN. It just didn't feel right.
Because post 108 reads to me like you still think we're in the RVS.
Though that's still a really weak vote.
Your stances before your vote were noncommittal and I feel like your vote on Zenjo was only to alleviate pressure off of you - on top of the fact that I started going after Zenjo.
Of course I haven't been scummy. I'm scumhunting.
@Gricky: That's kind of exactly what I was saying about Vitek.
In regards to LN, I feel like I've explained up to this point rather sufficiently. It's mostly just every post of his is rubbing me the wrong way.
Also, I force-end the RVS quite frequently as either alignment.
Not particularly inclined to give a t/s list as I think I've made my stances quite clear at this point.
Eron, why aren't you more concerned with Gricky's other reads?
Not being mean. Scumhunting.
Your mom didn't feel right.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I merely stated that he could be n00b town from simple experience. When I was in my first few games, following more experienced players was a good way to be safe. Of course that's not a good idea, but newer players are attracted to the idea because I believe Mafia can be overwhelming as it has a steep learning curve. Vitek's vote was scummy, but he could easily be n00b town. I do have my suspicions of Vitek don't get me wrong, but it can go both ways. I wasn't staunchly defending Vitek, nor was I calling him 100% scum. You call it fence sitting, I call it my read. It may not be rock solid just yet, were not even at ten pages yet, what do you expect? Only future actions will tell whether or not Vitek is town.
I voted and am still voting for Zenjo because of the really opportunistic vote. He also defended Iso with weak reasoning, neither are confirmed town yet. Zenjo is playing rather scummy and Iso the opposite so I'm really unsure right now.
As for a T/S list. Not yet, not enough solid reads yet.
How were my stances noncommittal?
I agreed with Eron in stating that I didn't know what you were trying to say. I clearly disagreed with you.
Why would I need to alleviate pressure if I didn't agree with your "scum" gambit on Foxlet?
My Mafia Stats - My Helpdesk
G Omnath, Locus of Mana U Arcum Dagsson BUG The Mimeoplasm GW Gaddock Teeg X Karn, Silver Golem
Both you and Gricky are making good points about Vitek and LN. Vitek is bothering me more at this point than LN. After catching up this afternoon, Vitek was my #1 scum target. LN is, different and I'm still working out why...I'm going to have to take better notes.
@ Wheat can you try and tell me what put you off about Iso's reaction to LN. I don't like name calling and I'll call anyone out on it (You should remember me doing that in Cirque)....But something about the Iso vs LN thing just has me bothered. It's why I'm going to go back and look at it again and take better notes than the ones I did the first time round.
Then go back and read yourself again. There was no reason to call LN a dog... Scum hunting or not. You could have said it better I know you have a way with words, use them.
I know Yuriko is V/LA, but what is up with quietfish? Only 2 posts and non since RVS. We also have a replacement (eventually) for Len to look forward to at some point. I just don't want to jump to conclusions and say out of everyone posting, all the scum are here.
Mindset. Motives.
@LN: Your stances were noncommital because you gave yourself room to back out, and as I said, they were very tip-toey. As for pressure, I was referring to the pressure that I was putting on you early on.
@Foxlet: I was asking if he was a puppy because I felt like he was following everything I did and I didn't like it. I wasn't calling him a dog - I was telling him to back off.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Then yes. One of the reasons I asked was because it looks like he slipped Yuriko in there as town so it could be pointed out later that he had him as town, even though it was done with no basis as far as I can see.
My belief is that it was done with a motive, but as of now I'm not sure what. That's why I asked for the reasons GT feels he is town.
It was the way that he asked it insistently over the course of several posts. I see only malicious intent in dragging it out the way he did rather than just getting to the point immediately. It makes him either scummy or mean, and the Iso I know isn't that mean.
And the fact that he tried to call it scumhunting doesn't help much. I agree it was a valid point, but the way he went about it was just atrocious.
If I meant to sneak her in, I either would have minimized the print or not mentioned her at all. I understand her low post count ITT, but she's on my town list. Call it a strong gut feeling, or whatever you want to call it. That's all I'm going to expand on the matter. Don't let one questionable name on my town list deter you from the points I've made, it doesn't discredit them one bit. I'm afraid that I won't be able to say very much about the subject at this time.
Er, I voted Vitek. Pretty sure.
Yesh. Yesh it is, in the context of the post. It's a line by line reading, each quoted post in chronological order. So, when looking at Kah's reaction to Iso and my analysis where I say that "People who vote Kah get scum points", naturally I give a few away to Zenjo. He did act a bit scummy, but where my analysis and views change is when he comes under pressure for it. Other players pressure him and forget about Vitek and his responses and explanation for his vote strike me as very townie. Not only does it remind me of my play very early on in Mafia as town, but it also strikes me as town with the timing of his vote. The situation was escalating due to Iso's trap and as soon as all was revealed, votes would be flying for several reasons. I think Zenjo's explanations read honest and believe his issue with Kah to be a misguided townie on townie incident.
So yeah, that is the way it works. I can say one thing at one point in time and another thing at another point in time due to the evolution of the game.
And why does everyone keep brushing off the T/S lists? at least a reason you are saying no?
You are a prominent player who has stayed fairly quite. I don't trust that semi-lurk playstyle. You aren't scum because of something you did, it's just a gut read. I've explained Zenjo a few times and YJ to the extent that I wish to explain for the time being.
It's really a problem with your personal timeline in the matter. You acknowledge that Vitek is scummy looking, but then brush it off with the easiest "could be newb town" excuse and jump onto Zenjo, who's offending post was literally just unvote, vote soandso. Then Vitek posts more poor reasoning and you comment AGAIN that it looks bad, but you won't abandon your vote on Zenjo because you are still waiting to hear more from him.
It's like you are a detective with two suspects, one of which is building a mighty case against himself, but you won't pursue that guy because you are two stubborn to give up? The evidence is there against Vitek and you have admitted it a few times, but you either excuse it or ignore it each time.
I like to fully take WIFOM out of my voting process. It clouds the thoughts too easily. In this scenario, I see scummy action, multiple scummy action from Vitek, so I pursue it with my vote and a case. My thoughts don't worry about that players experience level and it's impact on their actions. All I use for my vote is what I can see and read ITT. It's the most reliable info I have. You want a good example where sparing the new player from scummy action cost the town the game? Go read Shrek mafia, pretty sure it's Shrek, a basic from a few years ago. Blue_Ghost acts scummy for a good portion of the game and we run a case up on him. Another member of the town cites his inexperience, and it takes a while for the wagon to die because he's just so scummy, but the inexperience argument wins out. Ghost endgames the mafia to victory, good for him, bad for us for not pursuing scummy actions in the first place.
Lastly, You say Zenjo's vote was opportunistic. Is that the prime reason you are voting him? Lay it out there, all your reasoning, everything that makes you want to vote Zenjo, I wanna know about it.
You keep flipping this mindset too. Everytime I mention something about Vitek you say "Oh, well, the reads are weak so far, no rock-solid evidence" but I talk about Zenjo and you become a firm believer in your vote, implying that you do have some solid leads of some sort.
So I tried to make a clever remark (that was admittedly a bit watered down because of how long it took to deliver) and that makes me scum?
Weak.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Last time Iso did it in Supernatural he got lucky in that fluffynoob cracked and was scum. For a more damaging example see Seppels play day 1 of Little Big Planet where it cost us a VT and exposed the cop.
Unvote Iso: Ok for now I'll bite that it was a gambit to see what falls off but reserve the right to come back to you later, just provide a little reasoning next time you go off on a hunt. And bad joke is bad joke.
Vote Vitek: GT has a point you left your self open to it being a gambit and his continued defense of his actions look odd.
I note you have not unvoted yet Vitek do you still regard Foxlet as scum or just leaving it there for the time being.
@ GT: Also not going to do a full T/S list as got to many nulls on there at the moment for it to be of any use. Suffice to say I have my eye on Iso as I don't want him charging off on to many wagons with little or no reasoning and WG seems a little off, jumping on Iso for a smallish thing could be oppertunistic to get rid of one the more exprienced players in the game.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
I never said that my vote on Zenjo was a rock-solid read either. He had an opportunistic, weak vote and I thought that was extremely scummy. Maybe I was a bit hasty, but I can see Vitek's following of Iso in a townie mindset. Just because he followed Iso doesn't mean he's totally scum. Is there a possibility he is n00b scum? Yes. Is there a possibility Zenjo is n00b scum? Yes.
While Vitek's reasonings are really bad (like I should vote him bad), think about it. He is n00b town caught into a trap, what would you do in your first few games? It would be incredibly hard to dig your way out of that hole. I can totally see his actions in a scum mindset, but I can see them in a town mindset as well.
Zenjo's actions I can't see in a town mindset. A random vote saying he doesn't like the RVS after Kah voted Iso? Something isn't right there.
Maybe if Zenjo unvoted, and apologized for his vote I might change my mind. But the fact that he's sticking to his terrible vote is bothering me.
My Mafia Stats - My Helpdesk
G Omnath, Locus of Mana U Arcum Dagsson BUG The Mimeoplasm GW Gaddock Teeg X Karn, Silver Golem
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
Kah, while I think Wheat's jump to me was a little odd, I'm not sure it makes him scum - it could just be standard paranoia-of-Iso. We'll see how it plays out.
Also, Supernatural was totally not a gambit - the guy claimed scum in Pulp Fiction in his sig and was scum; then he claimed scum in Supernatural in his sig - 1+1=2. Obviously it's null now that he's done it since being town in Modern Family, but it was legitimate, plus his slip in Supernatural of calling my case against him "evidence" - but we've already had this conversation, so I won't bore the people in this thread with it.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Agreed it was not a gambit but as starting player it was worrying as hell when you did it Remember that was my first game.
Need to go back and read WG I don't remember him being that fast to jump on a wagon. Don't forget he has only 2 scum games completed so we don't have much to compare to atm.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
1. It's very early.
2. I haven't developed reads on a significant portion of the playerbase.
3. I think of T/S lists in large part as a discussion tool when there isn't much discussion going on. There's enough discussion going on.
I haven't seen a whole lot yet to reply to, but this'll change. I'm also modding a game on the side.
Again, it was the way you forced it that seems scummy. To me, it seems like you tried to bank personality and it didn't quite work out.
I lol'd
I personally don't count Amnesia. Summary of all I did that game:
"Hey guys I'm replacing in."
"We should NK tezz. Whoops I thought that was the scumchat sorry."
"VOTE-MOVING POWERS ACTIV-ah crap too late gl scum."
Basically, a gambit to try to end the game early because I was going to be lynched anyhow. The other two I actually did stuff.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Iso: So if we discount Amnesia he only has 2 scum games then :p.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Also do us a favor replace the full stop in the post of mine you snipped with a question mark see if changes your opinion then answer the damn question anyway.
Your entire last post is just you attacking the people on your wagon and I hate to say it making yourself look worse.
That being said by my very rough count you are @ 3 votes mine, GT's and Iso's unless I have missed any movement, 2 off the claim threshold, I'd rather you not be shoved up to that quite so soon this day has a lot of life left in it yet.
@ mod: any chance of a vote count please??
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
And yes, if you format it like , you can quote within a quote.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I dunno about that LN, I don't know any experienced player who is currently playing in the same game who would want you "following them around". It looks bad for BOTH of you. It's what mentors are for. You learn best by messing up sometimes (and asking questions later). With all the intricacies of such a game, I'd rather trust no one instead of being lynched for trusting the wrong person
That being said, Vitek isn't as "new" as he said. How does that change your read on him?
Gricky, You had me to there. You should have just stopped at gut feeling IMO. You have some good thoughts, I like them but as Eron brought up why have her on there? It's not so much sneaking her in so much as she really hasn't had ANY content. It would be akin to putting quietfish on your town list. They have NO CONTENT. Therefore null tell and at best would be neutral, or should be You bring up some good points, however because of this I've decided to keep an eye on you for now.
Pst, it wasn't clever...I still stand by what I was saying before. I knew you were telling him to back off, however there are better ways to say it. IMO, that does not make you scum, but you are a crafty one...with that, I'll drop it
Actually, if you read the differences between the games again. Here, Iso had to break RVS with his stunt to get people talking and info gathering. Your action had nothing to do with it, unless you mean your vote on me...then yes.
I'm just trying to point out that your vote on me which was solely based on RVS which I really enjoy BTW (:p at Zen) is null.
Possibly. He could very well be scum wanting to push you to claim range to weed out PR. So far, he's felt rather town to me so he could just want to lynch the person who so far has seemed the most scummy.
He also called for vote count so we wouldn't accidentally lynch you Personally, I would like to vote for you, but I know you have more to say so I want to give you a chance to say it.
Not to mention, LN and couple others still give me the willies and I have yet to pinpoint why exactly.
How do you figure?
This is how I see it. You voted for me purely on RVS stage since that's only to the point in this game we had gotten to. Why would Kah feel the need to read the entire game unless he REALLY wanted to? Gricky saying Kah was scumhunting doesn't mean diddly squat.
Try your best to explain it then?
As I said in my first response to you, I believe that all my RVS while not tied to the game at hand were all related. And it's RVS, which for me is pure shenanigans time
Not really. Since you read Cirque, you know that I've only played the one game but I've read a few games. Even with that, I have some pretty bad gaps in my mafia knowledge that only actually PLAYING games will fill.
In answer to your other question...yes, I think it's a total PIA but sometimes worth it as to not to be confusing. Hopefully one of the other more experienced players already PM'd you how to do it (if not I can).
@ MOD - Prod or something on quietfish?
I already explained, Vitek's play an initial reaction I believe could be from a townie mindset, Zenjo's doesn't really seem all that townie to me.
@Vitek: You seem to be digging himself a deeper hole. Dude, really? Voting for Kahedron? This seems really retaliatory and the reasoning behind it isn't very sound. I agree with Kah that you should have unvoted Foxlet and not gone on this big tangent. Your extreme defense against people on your wagon is also troubling.
Oh...um....WHAT?!?!
I thought you were n00b town, then you say your experienced? You've played more games than me? Dear god, then why did you fall in to that trap? I'm sorry, but your explanation just doesn't ring any bells of an experienced player mindset.
What does this even mean? Why would you vote for someone, merely on feeling? It just doesn't add up.
I don't want this day to end quickly because their is still much to discuss but I really don't have a choice anymore Vitek. Not voting you would just be a mistake so I'm going to swallow my pride and:
Unvote. Vote: Vitek.
I know Iso might call me a puppy, or tell me to fetch or some other remark but I swore Vitek was n00b town. I still have my eye on Zenjo however, he needs to post more for me to get a better read.
My Mafia Stats - My Helpdesk
G Omnath, Locus of Mana U Arcum Dagsson BUG The Mimeoplasm GW Gaddock Teeg X Karn, Silver Golem
You make me not want to be on the Vitek wagon.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Forced? How so?
I legitimately thought Vitek was a n00b, so I can see how this mistake could have happened but him saying he has experience changes everything.
Sorry if my language seems that way, but honestly I was surprised he actually play more games than me.
My Mafia Stats - My Helpdesk
G Omnath, Locus of Mana U Arcum Dagsson BUG The Mimeoplasm GW Gaddock Teeg X Karn, Silver Golem
I think the situation would be a lot more believable if there were really something there. Everyone else but you can't really see anything scummy about Foxlet.
In the scenario you described, it would be beneficial to go after player three if you had a solid case and you knew that the 3rd player was scum. The whole fact that no one else sees what you see makes this really troublesome.
This whole "feeling" explanation seems to me like you are trying to get your way out of being trapped because you did fall for the trap. If you said something about Foxlet and it actually made sense I would have gone "Huh, maybe this guy is on to something..." but with this current reason for voting Foxlet I just can't do that.
From a n00b town standpoint, it could have easily been a mistake. Now, it's inexcusable. There is nothing scummy there. At least not that I and many others can see.
My Mafia Stats - My Helpdesk
G Omnath, Locus of Mana U Arcum Dagsson BUG The Mimeoplasm GW Gaddock Teeg X Karn, Silver Golem
I just have a quick second on my phone before work so ill leave this here:
Vote: grickytrimmick
Ill have reasoning in like 8 or 9 hours after i get off work, but its mostly based on his high text produced to text read ratio. Theres a couple clear misreps and questions he asks with answers already stated. Which makes the content he produced seem more like scum trying to seem townie than townie actually trying to help. Ill be much more specific after work.
Vitek is @ L-3 with and has Foxlet interested in voting for him. You still don't mind holding off your vote Foxlet as now the below has been dropped I definitely don't want this day to end just yet.
You better have some stunning reasoning as I don't think we are reading the same game. Just gone back and had a re read of GT's posts and the biggest misrep is what you have just posted.
As GT's posts have been close the events he has been talking about and some issues are still to be resolved.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
However, QFish has just shown up with a left field vote so I would rather not puzh Vitek to claim until we hear more info from QF.
UNVOTE.
My Mafia Stats - My Helpdesk
G Omnath, Locus of Mana U Arcum Dagsson BUG The Mimeoplasm GW Gaddock Teeg X Karn, Silver Golem
Forced the joke.
I feel it's scummy but can't exactly say why it feels so to me. I just don't see a townie saying it unless they thought the person was for sure scum.
Which...would actually make sense wouldn't it. Unvote
I can accept this.
In regards to the whole Vitek thing, I haven't looked too in-depth at him yet. I'll take a much harder look oh say tomorrow morning.