I've read the set-up, extensively. I've also studied cultafia's a bit and read up on how to balance them. You can list all the checks and balances you want, but the game is fundamentally flawed when the town can lynch scum every day and still lose. It's also fundamentally flawed when the cult's recruit ability cannot be ended in any way other than the entire cult being wiped out by back-to-back lynch+Vig/Roleblock. Rule #1 of a cultafia is that there has to be a way to stop the cult recruiting, otherwise they are unbeatable. Rule #2 of a cultafia is that they are probably the single most powerful thing in any game of mafia and must be balanced accordingly.
It quite literally looks like no one working on this set-up had reviewed a cultafia before or even read one of the basic guides to setting up a cultafia on the mafiascum wiki. They also failed to run any test games to check how the set-up would actually play out.
I just finished my own mafia set-up for my first time hosting. The first thing I did was look for similar games and read all I could about those set-ups. Then I ran multiple test games to see what kind of scenarios could play out in my game and if any serious game-breaking plays could happen early on. Then I took my game to two independent reviewers on different sites to have it reviewed. Then after listening to their advice and making changes, I've run even more test games. Only at that point did I consider my game ready to play. Hosting is a big deal and requires serious commitment from the mod and the players, so it sucks when a game falls apart like this. The sad thing is, that mafia games don't even have to be perfectly balanced. They just have to allow a reasonable chance for each party to win dependent on player skill. This game didn't do that and has definitely not gone through the testing gauntlet that I just described for my set-up or anything even close to it.
I like your thought process DH, you are clearly doing your homework. It's funny to remember when you first came here asking for pointers on how to balance a game (you looked cluelessy) and now you look so experienced I feel you even know more than most of the people on this subforums. Including me hehehe. I hope I can play one of your games someday. =)
@Tordeck please acknowledge the critics don't want to harm or bash you, we are trying to help. I feel no bad intention from DH or the others, we are just trying to help you understand why cults are very hard to balance, and should rarely be used. Cults are known to screw games and should never be used in minis. In fact from my experience on the matter, cults should never be used period. If I remember well the last discussion about them, they almost got banned from this site. The funniest part is that Jobie most recent game (ended like a month ago) also had a cult, and also was heavily criticised because of it. Town and Mafia played very well and still got the shaft in the end.
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I've somehow followed this game. I think the town played brilliantly, Seppel fooled me the whole time, I believed he was town. PB played superbly both for town and for her team. Ensuring the SK would be next day mislynch she guaranteed the cult victory, town could not lose from that point anymore, even if everyone massclaimed the truth town had already lost and could only kingmake the cult or the SK victory.
DH, Poggy and Bolly also played very well.
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I have strong opinions of modkills, I will talk about it later if I can muster the energy to do it.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
So I realized that by getting lynched on Day 1, the collective would be at a huuuge advantage since Day 2 would be like Day 1 except with one less townie to assimilate. So good job, pinky, you pulled it off for us. All I can say is:
Thanks for the game, tordeck! I had fun trying to counter the setup. (I knew that Doctor, if he was in the setup, would be the biggest Borg threat, so I drew out pinky's counterclaim, and BAM.)
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
i was really doubtful of two investigative roles in the game. i dont believe that is the norm. i didnt account for the possibility that the anti town roles were absurdly powerful.
my investigation was because i didnt think there would be two cops also i liked the fact that this was a good use of the ability because if you did nothing i knew i had you caught.
and if i was totally wrong we now have two confirmed investigative roles. i also completely ignored artifice being a miller, not sure why.
you take on my meta was hilariously bad. check the spectator chat. i think that might have been part of my motivation to investigate you since you were so off on that i assumed you were fabricating it in order to get in an easy kill
I really just looked at your games played. I didn't read any spectator chat.
You really have changed a lot since your last game.
I can actually see confirming a role or person if you are suspicious on them or uncertain.
Originally I was going to use my cop ability on Seppel night 1 had Iso not brought me into the cult.
I wonder what results I would have gotten?
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I am female, hear me roar!
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
So I realized that by getting lynched on Day 1, the collective would be at a huuuge advantage since Day 2 would be like Day 1 except with one less townie to assimilate. So good job, pinky, you pulled it off for us. All I can say is:
Thanks for the game, tordeck! I had fun trying to counter the setup. (I knew that Doctor, if he was in the setup, would be the biggest Borg threat, so I drew out pinky's counterclaim, and BAM.)
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So I realized that by getting lynched on Day 1, the collective would be at a huuuge advantage since Day 2 would be like Day 1 except with one less townie to assimilate. So good job, pinky, you pulled it off for us. All I can say is:
Are you saying you were lynched on purpose? Considering your play and your timely "hiatus" I really thought you failed, but despite that it worked in the end (thanks to PB). But if you really planned it all the time, good job! =)
Thanks for the game, tordeck! I had fun trying to counter the setup. (I knew that Doctor, if he was in the setup, would be the biggest Borg threat, so I drew out pinky's counterclaim, and BAM.)
Wasn't PB the cop?
@PB I vaguely remember it, but I think he confirmed he was town.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I didn't do anything wrong. I helped the scum win the game.
You disclosed privileged information on a closed setup game. To me that is a slap in the face to the game mods.
You are upset that people are criticizing the game. The bold is rude.
LVPs are just kicking people while they are down. And my co-mod and I agreed that no one on their own played well enough to be considered an MVP. This decision was made before I posted the endgame.
I wont be handing out LVPs as they are just a slap in the face. As for
MVPs Manders and I discussed it and we are not sure if any players
really stood out as being an MVP for their team. But my final decision
will be announced after I have posted the Endgame.
You disclosed privileged information on a closed setup game. To me that is a slap in the face to the game mods.
That is rediculous.
Everyone was talking about their roles and ability in the game. Shaming me for doing the same is a slap in the face.
LVPs are just kicking people while they are down. And my co-mod and I agreed that no one on their own played well enough to be considered an MVP. This decision was made before I posted the endgame.
Reason's for this would be nice. All I see is critism for people flavor gaming and playing the game to win for talking about the set up, which everyone did and does every freeking game.
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mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
That is rediculous.
Everyone was talking about their roles and ability in the game. Shaming me for doing the same is a slap in the face.
You went well beyond your own role and ability and only just stopped short of outing your team mate. What you did was a slap in the face to me for all of the hard work and time I put into the game and setup. There were elements in place to keep the players guessing for a reason and you took it upon yourself to make it known. It would be as if I reviewed someones game and then posted the setup for all to see during said game. It was an inappropriate action
Reason's for this would be nice. All I see is critism for people flavor gaming and playing the game to win for talking about the set up, which everyone did and does every freeking game.
I am not going to go down the list and kick everyone on every play mistake I or Manders saw. We made the decision that no one player for either faction played a strong enough game to be considered an MVP.
You went well beyond your own role and ability and only just stopped short of outing your team mate. What you did was a slap in the face to me for all of the hard work and time I put into the game and setup. There were elements in place to keep the players guessing for a reason and you took it upon yourself to make it known. It would be as if I reviewed someones game and then posted the setup for all to see during said game. It was an inappropriate action
so you should definitely believe the confirmed scum player right?
I am not going to go down the list and kick everyone on every play mistake I or Manders saw. We made the decision that no one player for either faction played a strong enough game to be considered an MVP
instead of kicking everyone directly you are going to do it indirectly by cancelling the mvps...there were some solid plays on everyones part. sure people made mistakes but that happens every game. Cancelling the mvp award is innapropriate.
You went well beyond your own role and ability and only just stopped short of outing your team mate. What you did was a slap in the face to me for all of the hard work and time I put into the game and setup. There were elements in place to keep the players guessing for a reason and you took it upon yourself to make it known. It would be as if I reviewed someones game and then posted the setup for all to see during said game. It was an inappropriate action
Lets see. I'm scum and people should believe me because>>>>>?????
No seriously I'm waiting for an answer.
What I did was not wrong in the least. I had the town focus on a SK over and beyond my scum buddy. That is part of playing mafia.
If every person outs info, like Poggy did with the nano's and talking about assimulating a player that conclusion starts to be made about a cult.
DH proved that my explaining how he read and figured the game out.
You can't be butt hurt for telling mostly the truth about the role in order to win. No one has to believe me. I could have said everything as WIFOM.
Poggy giving information helped the town believe me. Giving info like that and poggy flipping town helped that. Anyone that believed Seppel for saying his ability stopped Borg only would be flavoring on what is in the game.
Lie/Truth it didn't matter. What your insulted with and calling a slap in the face is just coming off as petty. Blaming it completely on my actions is like ignoring everything else in this game that happened.
Finally comparing someone who read the game and knows the roles that has no vested interested in the game outing all abilities and someone who is scum who tells a part of what they know in order to win and help their scum buddy in the same category is just crazy. There was no slap in the face.
If town did the same you would not argue because they are helping the town. There is no difference.
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mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
I don't understand what privileged information PB theoretically disclosed here? If it was information about A)her role or B)her results, then clearly she did not do anything wrong. She gave out enough information to ensure that one more mislynch occurred, and that her team won.
Is the problem here because of the timing of her reveal(like was it during twilight)?
You are taking this all far, far too personally tordeck. If you a couple of days/steps back, you will realize that.
I don't understand what privileged information PB theoretically disclosed here? If it was information about A)her role or B)her results, then clearly she did not do anything wrong. She gave out enough information to ensure that one more mislynch occurred, and that her team won.
I just think it was kind of dickish that she played kingmaker and let the town win instead of me.
I feel that has to be said amongst all the critisism, since I just realized I got flavor from my ability used N3
@Mod: The flavor in this game was excellent. I would also like to applaud that you just got the PM's out and started the next day instead of postponing even more to finish writing up the flavor. Definitely the right choice. I also liked the deadlines and the short nights.
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Damnation studios!
P9 - VT - Win
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Do not speak to me or about me like I am some simple minded child. I looked at all the variables and it worked out fine as long as the town didn't completely screw the pooch.
I made one mistake and that was because I made a decision on the fly as it had not been covered during the review process and that was allowing Pinky to recruit the Night after she was recruited.
Clearly you didn't. any game where the town can win at the end of night one is horribly unbalanced, even if it's a long shot.
any game where the town can misslynch once and lose is horribly unbalanced, even with the modkill. if you want to tell me you looked at all the variables, you're lying. (more like ignorant, but.....)
This is the single swingiest game that's I've seen run on the site. there was not modicum of mafia that could be played here. all it was, was a game of watch the night kills happen. heck, if we lynched the SK day one, it was damn near impossible to ever win.
If you're saying mis lynching once is "screwing the pooch" you have serious issues.
you have no grounds to be defending yourself on in any way, shape, or form, and need to stop.
Are you saying you were lynched on purpose? Considering your play and your timely "hiatus" I really thought you failed, but despite that it worked in the end (thanks to PB). But if you really planned it all the time, good job! =)
At first I didn't want to get lynched, but then I realized that it gave much better numbers for my team if I got lynched Day 1 so I didn't fight my lynch at all.
Quote from DRey »
Wasn't PB the cop?
Yes. Her character was named Doctor, though, and ONLY because of my experience with Star Trek: Myriad Universes II did I realize that Doctor would be a threat to my team - I had a falseclaim (Chakotay) but I drew out pinky's counterclaim so that I could eliminate what I perceived the biggest threat to my win condition to be (and make their win condition my own). I thought Doctor was actually going to be a sort of Cult un-recruiter, like my role in ST:MUII. But turns out she was the Cop, and it all worked out anyway.
I agree that the setup was Cult-favored, and pinky should not have become the Queen on recruitment. But there is also no reason Seppel should not have killed pinky on Night 1. Just sayin'. (TBH, I wasn't expecting ANY other anti-town roles. But it was a cool setup, regardless.) As for pinky's end play, I completely agree with her decision - it ensured that the Cult won, and that's all there was to it, as it eliminated one of our big deterrents (Seppel's role) and it got the town un-focused from the Cult.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I agree that the setup was Cult-favored, and pinky should not have become the Queen on recruitment. But there is also no reason Seppel should not have killed pinky on Night 1. Just sayin'. (TBH, I wasn't expecting ANY other anti-town roles. But it was a cool setup, regardless.) As for pinky's end play, I completely agree with her decision - it ensured that the Cult won, and that's all there was to it, as it eliminated one of our big deterrents (Seppel's role) and it got the town un-focused from the Cult.
Either way, GG, all.
Thanks Iso. I was pretty miffed at you picking me without thinking of a possible killing role in the game (in my mind you can't have a cult without someone shotting at them).
I also don't see my info giving anything more then what someone who is town had done this game. Any info the town gets they give to the town and they did so this game. Tordeck complaining about me outting the cult, letting them know when I was placed into the cult, my actions in the game and letting people know I didn't do the kills in this game is something anyone would have done. I purposely left out being able to recruit night 1 so Void would be safe and hoped to misdirect the claimed RB so someone I believed was killing people would be blocked to save the cult and have them possible win.
It was not by any means a dickish move (as Seppel put it). If there really was no scum team left I would agree it was unwarranted to make such comments to the town.
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I am female, hear me roar!
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
I doc protected pinky night one, cause there was no reason not to doc protect the person that counterclaimed scum. had seppel shot her it wouldn't have mattered.
Agreed. I don't see how the town could have possibly won. I considered this scenario, but discounted it because there was no possible way for the town to overcome it.
Even the way the game had gone, if Shalako had RBd Void that last night, the town would have stood a chance. The town was not doomed for failure after N1.
Honey, I didn't know the flavor, either. But, even if I had, I would have only pointed you in the right direction, as tordeck did by sending you the wiki link.
i had a suspicion since you flipped **** on pinky for "ruining the setup" that you were far too attached to your game. This suspcion was coupled with me being modkilled for 4 words. I believe it has now been confirmed by you failing to realize that potential outs doesnt make a game balanced. Even AI stated in the spectator chat that there may have been a mistake in letting pinky go straight to queen mode upon recruitment.
You have countless people criticizing your modkill and refuse to acknowledge it. And when people tell you to calm down about pinkys play you dont listen.
I dont know if this is your first game or if you are simply always like this but you need to take a few steps back on this one.
The irony of your last sentence is amazing.
Regardless, all you had to do to avoid a modkill was clear what you wanted to say with us. You failed to do so. Your modkill, which crappy as all modkills are, was no one's fault but your own.
But you can't deny that this game allowed 0 mislynches for the town barring well-aimed night actions. I'm pretty sure there is more than one scenario here where the town could lynch scum every day and still lose too.
Aside from allowing pinky to assimilate the night she was turned, everything was done as fairly as possible. It was luck that p_b recruited the vig N1. These things happen.
I made one mistake and that was because I made a decision on the fly as it had not been covered during the review process and that was allowing Pinky to recruit the Night after she was recruited.
This was also not the only situation that came up that wasn't addressed. Whether Seppel's kill was unblockable didn't come up in creation. There was another one, too, but I can't remember what it was now. That's a failure on the creator and his reviewer (which I was not one, sorry to inform).
so you should definitely believe the confirmed scum player right?
You did when she said she was the only one left.
instead of kicking everyone directly you are going to do it indirectly by cancelling the mvps...there were some solid plays on everyones part. sure people made mistakes but that happens every game. Cancelling the mvp award is innapropriate.
This is not the first game to not be awarded MVPs, nor will it be the last, I'm sure. This decision was not made from any kind of personal standpoint, as seems to be the consensus here. We simply did not feel that anyone did anything spectacular.
Look, it's entirely too heated in here. This is just a game, guys. tordeck's first time modding, to be exact. Mistakes are going to happen, and you learn from them. I know he's not really showing it, but I assure you, he has learned from them. We both learned a lot from modding this game.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@MH: Stop trying to make excuses. The only real debate here is as follows: Which is more awful, the game setup or poggydude getting modkilled? And that one is hard to answer, because both were extremely bad.
You can make all of the setup excuses that you want, but in the end, the *facts* are that the town mislynched once and lost. That is an awful setup. All people want are reassurances that the same thing won't happen next time. Instead, you and tordeck don't seem to want to take any responsibility for any of it, which just makes people more frustrated. Admit that you messed up and will take these criticisms into account next time and everyone can move on. Or just keep fighting it and then people will never forget about it and you won't be able to get people to sign up next time.
i dont think anyone besides you and tordeck think im the one to blame for my modkill
"when its you vs the world bet on the world"
if you are going to be this way about modkills manders i will likely never play in a game modded by you again. im sorry but i dont want to spend hours upon hours on a game to find out that me claiming what my track ability turned up is modkill worthy. i was simply trying to play the game i was not trying to cheat with my claim and no one even got unfair information out of it...oh wait, yeah they did, when i was modkilled :/ trying to claim what my ability did in a clear way should in no way feel like filling out customs forms.
i have nothing against you personally, ive stated on multiple occasions that you are one of the nicest people on these forums. So when i say i wont play in any more games modded by you until your position on pm quoting changes i do so with some sadness, i just am not willing to deal with it though.
as for you saying that i believed the last scum player, i certainly dont recall that, although even if i did it definitely turned out to be a bad decesion to believe her. you should definitely not believe anyone but yourself and dead townies(and some POEed players.)
finally the spectacular plays from town and scum alike are fairly numerous and even if you arent going to give out mvp awards i feel as though you can at least acknowledge he sweet plays that were made.
not quite sure how my sentence in that post had amazing irony...
Manders never gives MVP when the people she doesn't like deserve it. She has not given it on StarTrek (where me or Pinky clearly deserve it), I don't think she gave them on Kitteh trek either. And here there was a ton of good play (this town actually had a chance despite the imba game). Superb play all around imho.
She also doesn't really understand why modkills are bad and has screwed two games in a row. The worst part is that I told Az it would happen again if Manders still had participation in moderating games. I'm certainly not coming close in a game moderated by her in billion years. But I think Tordeck is just a casuality, he was just poorly advised by a person unfit to mod in any games.
Wake up Tordeck! open your eyes man. You should be a jedi, not a Sith.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I have read that page multiple times and looked at a few mafiascum cult set-ups, because I think cults are a really cool idea. I do NOT feel personally qualified to properly balance one though, because it's quite possibly the hardest challenge a mod can face.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
She as well as the rest of the player base were told not to flavor game. She did get her ability failed. All my actions PMs were structured with Flavor at the top and game stuff at the bottom. The only part that had any baring on the game was the bottom. Adding flavor was just to make the game for fun. No one likes bare bones action PMs. This was discussed awhile back in Theory.
And I couldnt think of another way to do it without outing your immunity to recruitment.
I would not damage mechanics just to add flavor. If there is no flavorful way to do something, then skip the flavor and post the basic result. Flavor is fun, but it's not as important as making sure mechanics work how they need to.
Then again, this is another thing you should have considered before the game started and had flavor prepared for.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
@Tordeck please acknowledge the critics don't want to harm or bash you, we are trying to help. I feel no bad intention from DH or the others, we are just trying to help you understand why cults are very hard to balance, and should rarely be used. Cults are known to screw games and should never be used in minis. In fact from my experience on the matter, cults should never be used period. If I remember well the last discussion about them, they almost got banned from this site. The funniest part is that Jobie most recent game (ended like a month ago) also had a cult, and also was heavily criticised because of it. Town and Mafia played very well and still got the shaft in the end.
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I've somehow followed this game. I think the town played brilliantly, Seppel fooled me the whole time, I believed he was town. PB played superbly both for town and for her team. Ensuring the SK would be next day mislynch she guaranteed the cult victory, town could not lose from that point anymore, even if everyone massclaimed the truth town had already lost and could only kingmake the cult or the SK victory.
DH, Poggy and Bolly also played very well.
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I have strong opinions of modkills, I will talk about it later if I can muster the energy to do it.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Thanks for the game, tordeck! I had fun trying to counter the setup. (I knew that Doctor, if he was in the setup, would be the biggest Borg threat, so I drew out pinky's counterclaim, and BAM.)
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I really just looked at your games played. I didn't read any spectator chat.
You really have changed a lot since your last game.
I can actually see confirming a role or person if you are suspicious on them or uncertain.
Originally I was going to use my cop ability on Seppel night 1 had Iso not brought me into the cult.
I wonder what results I would have gotten?
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
that was FLAVORGAMING
DAS IS VERBOTEN!!!
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
But...it worked
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Wasn't PB the cop?
@PB I vaguely remember it, but I think he confirmed he was town.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
You disclosed privileged information on a closed setup game. To me that is a slap in the face to the game mods.
LVPs are just kicking people while they are down. And my co-mod and I agreed that no one on their own played well enough to be considered an MVP. This decision was made before I posted the endgame.
It would have failed.
Yes until she was assimilated in which her ability changed to a role cop.
The Family
That is rediculous.
Everyone was talking about their roles and ability in the game. Shaming me for doing the same is a slap in the face.
Reason's for this would be nice. All I see is critism for people flavor gaming and playing the game to win for talking about the set up, which everyone did and does every freeking game.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
I am not going to go down the list and kick everyone on every play mistake I or Manders saw. We made the decision that no one player for either faction played a strong enough game to be considered an MVP.
The Family
so you should definitely believe the confirmed scum player right?
instead of kicking everyone directly you are going to do it indirectly by cancelling the mvps...there were some solid plays on everyones part. sure people made mistakes but that happens every game. Cancelling the mvp award is innapropriate.
Lets see. I'm scum and people should believe me because>>>>>?????
No seriously I'm waiting for an answer.
What I did was not wrong in the least. I had the town focus on a SK over and beyond my scum buddy. That is part of playing mafia.
If every person outs info, like Poggy did with the nano's and talking about assimulating a player that conclusion starts to be made about a cult.
DH proved that my explaining how he read and figured the game out.
You can't be butt hurt for telling mostly the truth about the role in order to win. No one has to believe me. I could have said everything as WIFOM.
Poggy giving information helped the town believe me. Giving info like that and poggy flipping town helped that. Anyone that believed Seppel for saying his ability stopped Borg only would be flavoring on what is in the game.
Lie/Truth it didn't matter. What your insulted with and calling a slap in the face is just coming off as petty. Blaming it completely on my actions is like ignoring everything else in this game that happened.
Finally comparing someone who read the game and knows the roles that has no vested interested in the game outing all abilities and someone who is scum who tells a part of what they know in order to win and help their scum buddy in the same category is just crazy. There was no slap in the face.
If town did the same you would not argue because they are helping the town. There is no difference.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Is the problem here because of the timing of her reveal(like was it during twilight)?
You are taking this all far, far too personally tordeck. If you a couple of days/steps back, you will realize that.
I just think it was kind of dickish that she played kingmaker and let the town win instead of me.
except her side won...
nope town won
you cant criticize her play because you declared it a town win(although i do agree with your declaration)
This ^
Seriously if I did not have a scum buddy who I knew could recruit I would not have made the comments I did during twilight.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
@Mod: The flavor in this game was excellent. I would also like to applaud that you just got the PM's out and started the next day instead of postponing even more to finish writing up the flavor. Definitely the right choice. I also liked the deadlines and the short nights.
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
Clearly you didn't. any game where the town can win at the end of night one is horribly unbalanced, even if it's a long shot.
any game where the town can misslynch once and lose is horribly unbalanced, even with the modkill. if you want to tell me you looked at all the variables, you're lying. (more like ignorant, but.....)
This is the single swingiest game that's I've seen run on the site. there was not modicum of mafia that could be played here. all it was, was a game of watch the night kills happen. heck, if we lynched the SK day one, it was damn near impossible to ever win.
If you're saying mis lynching once is "screwing the pooch" you have serious issues.
you have no grounds to be defending yourself on in any way, shape, or form, and need to stop.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
you mean the start/end day scenes?
The Family
At first I didn't want to get lynched, but then I realized that it gave much better numbers for my team if I got lynched Day 1 so I didn't fight my lynch at all.
Yes. Her character was named Doctor, though, and ONLY because of my experience with Star Trek: Myriad Universes II did I realize that Doctor would be a threat to my team - I had a falseclaim (Chakotay) but I drew out pinky's counterclaim so that I could eliminate what I perceived the biggest threat to my win condition to be (and make their win condition my own). I thought Doctor was actually going to be a sort of Cult un-recruiter, like my role in ST:MUII. But turns out she was the Cop, and it all worked out anyway.
I agree that the setup was Cult-favored, and pinky should not have become the Queen on recruitment. But there is also no reason Seppel should not have killed pinky on Night 1. Just sayin'. (TBH, I wasn't expecting ANY other anti-town roles. But it was a cool setup, regardless.) As for pinky's end play, I completely agree with her decision - it ensured that the Cult won, and that's all there was to it, as it eliminated one of our big deterrents (Seppel's role) and it got the town un-focused from the Cult.
Either way, GG, all.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Thanks Iso. I was pretty miffed at you picking me without thinking of a possible killing role in the game (in my mind you can't have a cult without someone shotting at them).
I also don't see my info giving anything more then what someone who is town had done this game. Any info the town gets they give to the town and they did so this game. Tordeck complaining about me outting the cult, letting them know when I was placed into the cult, my actions in the game and letting people know I didn't do the kills in this game is something anyone would have done. I purposely left out being able to recruit night 1 so Void would be safe and hoped to misdirect the claimed RB so someone I believed was killing people would be blocked to save the cult and have them possible win.
It was not by any means a dickish move (as Seppel put it). If there really was no scum team left I would agree it was unwarranted to make such comments to the town.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Even the way the game had gone, if Shalako had RBd Void that last night, the town would have stood a chance. The town was not doomed for failure after N1.
Honey, I didn't know the flavor, either. But, even if I had, I would have only pointed you in the right direction, as tordeck did by sending you the wiki link.
The irony of your last sentence is amazing.
Regardless, all you had to do to avoid a modkill was clear what you wanted to say with us. You failed to do so. Your modkill, which crappy as all modkills are, was no one's fault but your own.
Aside from allowing pinky to assimilate the night she was turned, everything was done as fairly as possible. It was luck that p_b recruited the vig N1. These things happen.
Power roles are always pivotal to games. If they're misused a high majority of the time, then the game's not going to go well.
This was also not the only situation that came up that wasn't addressed. Whether Seppel's kill was unblockable didn't come up in creation. There was another one, too, but I can't remember what it was now. That's a failure on the creator and his reviewer (which I was not one, sorry to inform).
You did when she said she was the only one left.
This is not the first game to not be awarded MVPs, nor will it be the last, I'm sure. This decision was not made from any kind of personal standpoint, as seems to be the consensus here. We simply did not feel that anyone did anything spectacular.
Look, it's entirely too heated in here. This is just a game, guys. tordeck's first time modding, to be exact. Mistakes are going to happen, and you learn from them. I know he's not really showing it, but I assure you, he has learned from them. We both learned a lot from modding this game.
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{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You can make all of the setup excuses that you want, but in the end, the *facts* are that the town mislynched once and lost. That is an awful setup. All people want are reassurances that the same thing won't happen next time. Instead, you and tordeck don't seem to want to take any responsibility for any of it, which just makes people more frustrated. Admit that you messed up and will take these criticisms into account next time and everyone can move on. Or just keep fighting it and then people will never forget about it and you won't be able to get people to sign up next time.
Any game where the town has both the ability to win on night one or misslynch once and lose is not balanced, unless you call horribly swingy balanced.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
"when its you vs the world bet on the world"
if you are going to be this way about modkills manders i will likely never play in a game modded by you again. im sorry but i dont want to spend hours upon hours on a game to find out that me claiming what my track ability turned up is modkill worthy. i was simply trying to play the game i was not trying to cheat with my claim and no one even got unfair information out of it...oh wait, yeah they did, when i was modkilled :/ trying to claim what my ability did in a clear way should in no way feel like filling out customs forms.
i have nothing against you personally, ive stated on multiple occasions that you are one of the nicest people on these forums. So when i say i wont play in any more games modded by you until your position on pm quoting changes i do so with some sadness, i just am not willing to deal with it though.
as for you saying that i believed the last scum player, i certainly dont recall that, although even if i did it definitely turned out to be a bad decesion to believe her. you should definitely not believe anyone but yourself and dead townies(and some POEed players.)
finally the spectacular plays from town and scum alike are fairly numerous and even if you arent going to give out mvp awards i feel as though you can at least acknowledge he sweet plays that were made.
not quite sure how my sentence in that post had amazing irony...
She also doesn't really understand why modkills are bad and has screwed two games in a row. The worst part is that I told Az it would happen again if Manders still had participation in moderating games. I'm certainly not coming close in a game moderated by her in billion years. But I think Tordeck is just a casuality, he was just poorly advised by a person unfit to mod in any games.
Wake up Tordeck! open your eyes man. You should be a jedi, not a Sith.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
The Family
i dont know if you are referring to me but im simply responding to what she said in this thread
Yes.
Would you care to explain?
The Family
I have read that page multiple times and looked at a few mafiascum cult set-ups, because I think cults are a really cool idea. I do NOT feel personally qualified to properly balance one though, because it's quite possibly the hardest challenge a mod can face.
It makes winning for the bad guys harder.
The Family
He means that the game was flavorgameable for scum since they had falseclaims and the powerroles were flavor-related.
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
She as well as the rest of the player base were told not to flavor game. She did get her ability failed. All my actions PMs were structured with Flavor at the top and game stuff at the bottom. The only part that had any baring on the game was the bottom. Adding flavor was just to make the game for fun. No one likes bare bones action PMs. This was discussed awhile back in Theory.
And I couldnt think of another way to do it without outing your immunity to recruitment.
The Family
Then again, this is another thing you should have considered before the game started and had flavor prepared for.