what i totally forgot was that miller claims day 1 are actually totally acceptable moves and therefore there was a high chance id be taken seriously. if i claimed doc i probably wouldnt be taken as seriously but if someone pulled an artifice with doc everything would be screwed hard. it was basically a way to start convorsation without some derpy crap coming out of rvs.
@arnaria, i am saying that my fake claim was an insanely good call that i matched flavor with role with nothing but a cursory look through a wikipedia page. I was saying art could be pulling an insane gambit to counterclaim without actually being seven of nine, or by actually being a scum seven of nine(not sure if this is likely) or maybe this is one of scums false claims.
i never said art's action was inexcusable, why are you putting words in my mouth?
Okay I buy the story.
I just think playing with semantics and calling what you did a "joke" and what Artifice did a "gambit" is just toying with connotations of words, is all.
it may very well be messing with how you percieved the words, i assure you the only reason i didnt make sure the semantics hit your ear in just the right way to make angels sing and heaven open its doors is because i was on my ipad and it was getting late
it may very well be messing with how you percieved the words, i assure you the only reason i didnt make sure the semantics hit your ear in just the right way to make angels sing and heaven open its doors is because i was on my ipad and it was getting late
Hahaha. I post on my iPad too. Which is why I can't make big multi-quote posts or often have to delete text from a quote so I can add commentary.
1: We were discussing if Art was pulling a scum gambit. Art beeing a valued member of town doesn't apply, since Art beeing town would make the discussion moot. FTR I believe strongly in Arts claim that he is town.
2: In your experience, what does scum normally do to avoid losing? Act like town, or pull crazy gambits? Proposing flavour speculation is scummy, yes, and that's why I commented on it. I didn't say scum are always successfull in acting town, then this game would have been very hard to play, wouldn't it?
1. I missed the scum gambit part. Most people feel shooting the miller is good to stop confusion and scum gambits. I feel even with Art miller claims are null. Would scum CC a miller? I have seen scum do it so I won't go into the WIFOM.
2. So your contradicting yourself in one statement. One to fit Art and one to fit DH. I really don't like this. You seem to think scum are not dumb enough to gambit but dumb enough to ask for a full claim from people. You also forgot DH stated he thought about it further and realized the flaw of asking for the claim. Why is his statement still scummy?
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mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
2. So your contradicting yourself in one statement. One to fit Art and one to fit DH. I really don't like this. You seem to think scum are not dumb enough to gambit but dumb enough to ask for a full claim from people. You also forgot DH stated he thought about it further and realized the flaw of asking for the claim. Why is his statement still scummy?
It's not a contradiction. Scum and scum are not the same, there are people behind the titles. I'm not of the faith that scum can't pull gambits either, my point is that this proposed gambit looks to poor to be something experienced scum would do.
I also said scum usually try to act as town. Have you ever seen scum deliberately act as scum?
#4: It needed to be stated, since you thought flavourgaming would help us even after the Mod had stated it. I'm aware that you later pulled the statement back (before I posted), but I found it dodgy and important to note.
How can you not read that? It's in the same post that you just quoted yourself. I have the feeling that I'm been misrepresented pretty hard here. If you did read it but didn't understand it, let me try again.
* I noticed DH proposed a fullclaim
* Scumdar tingling
* Someone (Art?) is opposing the claim with good reasoning
* DH retracts the proposal, since he "remembered something"
* I comment on it eitherway, because...
DOING SOMETHING SCUMMY THEN SAYING "OOPS NO I DIDN'T MEAN IT" DOES NOT MAKE IT TOWNIE.
Sorry for shouting.
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Damnation studios!
P9 - VT - Win
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Everyone listing just their name would be good for a "full claim" IMO. We could infer abilities from there, but it would still be quite difficult for the mafia to determine power roles. On the flip-side, it would help with alignment quite a lot for those of us who know the universe well.
Dragon, how can you possibly advocate for this after Tordeck already clarified flavor protections were in consideration? Hell, if you read the flavor in the OP, it is quite clear that the scum are in town disguises.
So, twice you have not paid attention.
Add to that the barning of me in the defense of Artifice and Poggy...
Barning you? Wha? Do you all realize that I didn't bring up the idea of claiming? I suggested an alternative to a full claim being to just reveal our names. Then realized that it could still give away some of the power roles like The Doctor.
The mafia could be townsfolk in disguise, although the opening post describes a mafia member as being an obvious borg drone. Where did you see anything saying the mafia are crewmen in disguise?
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
I'm confused by this case against me. Really confused.
Dragon, this Is mafia. You've made a couple posibly excusable mistakes. People have noticed, and are voting you to add pressure.
Then, others who aren't convinced yet will see how you handle this pressure and vote accordingly.
For example, if I could vote for you, it would NOT be because I was certain you were scum, but moreso to pressure you into reconciling your scummy behavior.
The Collective has adapted. There implants can no longer bee seen with the naked eye. Somewhere amongst you are Collective Drones. You must find and eliminate this threat if you are ever going to make it home safe.
Day 1 Deadline set for May 6th 1600 EST
Good Luck and Enjoy the Ride
Okay, it wasn't the OP. but after reading this carefully, it should be a huge red flag saying: CAUTION, DO NOT TRY TO FLAVOR GAME!
Why leave the possibility of neutrals? From what I've heard neutrals wreck Minis and are considered a bit bastardly. I might be wrong though, anyone care to correct/confirm?
It looks like this game is leaving RVS rapidly. No point in my vote staying just to confuse votecounts.
unvote
I think the mods missed this in the last vote count.
I don't think that's what is happening though. It seems likely to me that poggydude was being silly with his claim to try and stir people up, then Artifice only read half the thread and thought he had to counter-claim. That gives off a neutral read for poggydude and a town read on Artifice. This is how I'm choosing to interpret events given the information presented in the thread.
First of all, please don't make references the rest of us aren't going to get with out explaining them. Thanks ahead of time.
It was RVS, I make references in the RVS all the time. .-. I'll do what I please.
Quote from Artifice 101 »
Second of all, why does that line "make you feel better" exactly?
I didn't say "that line" did, I said "that post". Reading is tech.
As for why, firstly, she was discouraging people putting role-related info in the thread - and secondly, she was attempting to clarify information about the scum team to someone else. I don't see town doing that in such the way that she did. I'll try to rephrase if I'm not getting my meaning across, because I feel like this statement was horribly unclear.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It's not a contradiction. Scum and scum are not the same, there are people behind the titles. I'm not of the faith that scum can't pull gambits either, my point is that this proposed gambit looks to poor to be something experienced scum would do.
I also said scum usually try to act as town. Have you ever seen scum deliberately act as scum?
I did NOT forget that he realized the flaw:
Why is DH scummy then? You seem to take DH's comment as scummy and in my view any person worth salt is smart enough to ask questions about this. I have seen many people try to flavor game. How about you Aud? How many people do you know asked for full claims and were scum?
@Iso: How is the miller claim scummy? How is that post coaching?
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mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
Every time I respond to someone else this game, people blame me for bring up one of the many "forbidden" topics. I'm just staying active in discussion, not trying to propose drastic actions.
I swear, you guys on this forum are ridiculous. If you have a huge list of topics that automatically make someone mafia for mentioning, don't you think that they mafia are going to figure that out and not talk about them? I don't see much in the way of real reads to be gained from this type of metagaming.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
Why is DH scummy then? You seem to take DH's comment as scummy and in my view any person worth salt is smart enough to ask questions about this. I have seen many people try to flavor game. How about you Aud? How many people do you know asked for full claims and were scum?
@Iso: How is the miller claim scummy? How is that post coaching?
miller claim isnt scummy, it is, however, a pretty good scum claim. in other words, it in no way clears him, especially if he is seven of nine, mafia member, or if seven of nine miller was a fabricated false claim given to them by the mod.
and in case anyone missed it, i am not seven of nine, and am not a miller.
@Iso: How is the miller claim scummy? How is that post coaching?
Well, Miller returns a "not town" investigation result. It, in and of itself, is not inherently scummy - but coupled with Art's behavior, I think it's worth scrutiny.
As for coaching, it read to me like Art was telling jd to post without trying to draw too much attention to it.
Every time I respond to someone else this game, people blame me for bring up one of the many "forbidden" topics. I'm just staying active in discussion, not trying to propose drastic actions.
I swear, you guys on this forum are ridiculous. If you have a huge list of topics that automatically make someone mafia for mentioning, don't you think that they mafia are going to figure that out and not talk about them? I don't see much in the way of real reads to be gained from this type of metagaming.
Thing is, it's legitimate, because it shows insight in thought processes, etc.
Kind of like how SK-hunting is widely accrued as a scumtell when there are still scum alive. (See Seppel's behavior in Flame Warriors near the end of the game.)
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Every time I respond to someone else this game, people blame me for bring up one of the many "forbidden" topics. I'm just staying active in discussion, not trying to propose drastic actions.
I swear, you guys on this forum are ridiculous. If you have a huge list of topics that automatically make someone mafia for mentioning, don't you think that they mafia are going to figure that out and not talk about them? I don't see much in the way of real reads to be gained from this type of metagaming.
Relax. You're nowhere close to lynch or claim range.
You pushed for some sort of claim without reading two key posts, both by the game mod. Either this is ignorance on your part or you thought you could get a soft claim and access information from there.
The first is a mistake, but it's hardly excusable. The second is deliberate fishing and points you to being scum.
If you are not the scummy person in this scenario, make a legitimate case against someone else.
Why is DH scummy then? You seem to take DH's comment as scummy and in my view any person worth salt is smart enough to ask questions about this. I have seen many people try to flavor game. How about you Aud? How many people do you know asked for full claims and were scum??
I refuse to have to tell you three times why I found DH's behaviour scummy.
I have not seen scum ask for full claims (usually Void does that), but from the games I've played I've gathered that early fullclaims tend to favorise scum and seldom breaks games. This is not my experience, but what I've heard from others. I find it specially dubious to ask for a flavourclaim when the mod had stated that the game is not breakable by flavour. (Damnit, seems I answered your question yet again. Cya later, principles).
I like DH's comment on not seeing the post by TordeckMod, it looks like he genuinely missed it.
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Damnation studios!
P9 - VT - Win
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Responding to everything in order, not going back to edit out questions if they later get asked and answered.
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i dont want to live on this planet anymore...-Poggy
Why, cause you can't get away with posting garbage? Seriously though, That's all you had to say to my post?
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on RVS to DH: I don't know how it works, but it does, read any random old game, and you'll see RVS quickly turns into real discussion somehow in about 40 posts 9/10 times. and it's usually pretty obvious what's a joke, and what's not, and even discussion of that can spur on more discussion.
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Pinky: what exactally is your Iso category?
and in regards to that, I'm not sure why pinky's comment on filing poggy under this "Iso category" makes pinky appear one way or the other.
why is this Iso?
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DH, on the soft claim: No.
On any sort of day one claim in this game: No.
The fact that you're even suggesting this is odd.
i want you to actually tell me in what way you think doing any sort of claim day one could be of benefit?
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Arnnaria: I agree with everything in your 57 with regards to Artifice, but I'm really not sure what your opinion on poggy is coming out of this. I know you you said "poggy's not clear" in your next post, but I'd like to know where you stood exactly on poggy at this point.
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Arnnaria: ok, so, you answer this with an answer similar to DH. i'd actually like to know why this doesn't lean you one way or the other.
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Artifice: I don't see why you're saying we cop/vig poggy instead of lynching poggy while you're still voting him.
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While I do lean town on Artifice given the way this whole thing played out, I'm not sure why pure theory shouldn't dictate him as a Vig target here too.
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I Audin's post didn't stand upon my first read of it, but upon reading DH's breakdown of it, I can't help but agree with everything he says. Given that I agree that poggy is best dealt with by other methods at this point, I would have voted Audin here.
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Artifice, I'm not sure how you got DH advocating whiffing inquisitions on poggy out of that.
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Arnnaria asking for a breakdown of a case throughly fleshed out only a few posts above is pretty odd. don't think it's scummy odd though, just odd odd.
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Thinking like scum to catch scum =! thinking like scum
in on case you are imitating a hypothetical mindset, and it's more done on the lines of "Scum would do this here, lets look for that". The scum just does what the person thinking like scum is looking for.
Thinking like scum =! posting like scum.
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don't like blue's vote on DH at all. if you're going to make the comment "I can't tell if you're over zealous town or just really scummy." in the same post you vote for someone, your vote immediately appears very weak.
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Arnnaria: I don't see how either of those points you make indicate that the case on audin is poor.
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I really don't think discussing who the hypothetical cop/vig shoud target is bad in any way. only outright telling them what to can be a problem however.
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Arnnaria, you should have claimed voteless in your first point.
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Blue's vote on Artifice is terrible. you case aside, I don't think artifice can possibly be scum given the way this seven of nine thing played out.
Blue: tell me in what scenario is it logical for scum to day one counterclaim someone claiming miller? tell me in what way it is possible for Artifice to be scum given the seven of nine exchange.
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Hi seppel
I don't see why to want to know his browser history.
Audin's response doesn't inspire confidence. and just because seppel and I didn't need you that game doesn't we wanted you dead. if you really want to use that game as an example, both seppel and I were constantly misdirecting away from you at the Lyol.
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Poggy's response to seppel/arnnaria do little.
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DH's unvote looks awful, given that he's been pressing for reasons a good chunk of the game.
I really question why you didn't put that explanation in the unvote post.
That being said, having been on audin's scum team that game, his explanation of how he thinks scum would play with him on their team doesn't mesh at all with how they actually did.
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Iso: explain to me a scenario where Artifice is scum, and makes this claim in this scenario. I also fail to see any direct coaching in that at all.
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DH: some things are always scummy some of the time. there is no such thing as an all the time tell, even though there are a few things that I've only seen scum do (joke claiming scum is one). and some things are just 9/10 times more benefitial for scum to do, like, as Iso said, looking for the SK early.
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All that bieng said, if anything needs elaborating on, ask. atm, I'm still completly sold on poggy bieng scum, and have blue and audin as my other potentials at the moment.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Sarcasm on the Internet does not work. Claiming it was a joke, and then voting the person who really didn't think it was a joke, great plan. your vote on Arnnaria was atrocious, and you're bieng oblivious to how poorly you yourself look.
posts like "as if i care for what you have to thnk, scum" and claiming the game over on post 15. if that's your Idea of how to catch scum, you have serious issues. and if this is your idea of a joke, you have serious issues.
seriously though, you can't say "obv joke post" cause there are more than a few people that didn't think it was an "obv joke". and you're seriously telling us now you're not even a miller?
yah, I'm done, if you're going to intentionally look incredibly scummy, you're going to get votes, that's not a gambit, that's moronic.
i thought it was an obvious joke, forgot miller claims immediately under most people's plans of how games should go. my vote on arnaria was pressure/obvious bad play in order to evoke responses. not surprised that you think it was bad play. you are also seeming pretty bloodthirsty overall with a post like this.
1) What did you think of what Poggy stated.
2) I got head butt in the nose by my child earlier today. Communication was not in the cards earlier, but Aud's post is scummy and worthy of a vote.
1) That post is lengthy, but I have no way of knowing whether to trust what it says. All I know is that my role and knowledge directly conflict with poggy's prior statement. "Joke", "Gambit", whatever. His retraction wasn't complete at the time, as evidenced by his post #91. He's had to back out of this game action repeatedly over the last several posts.
2) Ouch. Been there done that (also, this isn't the first time that has come um in a Mafia game...weird. This is the child that picks out scum for you? heh). I can accept that explanation.
OKay, I don't want to be accused of fence sitting, so I need to come clean.
I cannot vote. Under penalty of mod kill.
I can help scum hunt, but I'm not going to be able to help lynch.
Game is getting easier and easier. Thank you, although you didn't really need to claim this at this time. It narrows down for the scum what the rest of us are.
Barning you? Wha? Do you all realize that I didn't bring up the idea of claiming? I suggested an alternative to a full claim being to just reveal our names. Then realized that it could still give away some of the power roles like The Doctor.
The mafia could be townsfolk in disguise, although the opening post describes a mafia member as being an obvious borg drone. Where did you see anything saying the mafia are crewmen in disguise?
Again, already spoken to this.
@Seppel: Nice town entrance. Glad to see you, and I won't be making the same stupid mistake on your alignment like I did in StarCraft.
That being said, do you see Iso's complete lack of comprehension of what occured? He also clammed up uncharacteristically with this whole thing about poggy.
Could it really be so easy as a blue/Iso/Aud scum team? I mean poggy, I'm having a hard time with because he is "gambits badly as town" guy. I'm getting and remembering that. But blue's attacks make no sense, Iso ignored the obvious, and Audi seems oddly jumpy but neither of the other two have commented on it, instead focussing on me.
Unvote; Vote blue with Iso a close runner up. I'd love to see them both dead today if possible.
EWP: @Niv: I'm not sure what you mean about whiffing and stuff. Also, if how the exchange played out makes me clearly town, then the fact that it is called "theory" and not fact needs to be applied. IMO of course. That being said, as I've said, poggy is "gambit badly as town" guy. My initial reaction was based on what I had read so far, which did not include his partial retraction. I'm rethinking that.
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reading your post gives me an absoulte headache, niv, is there any way for it to be actually readable?
Put it in a word ducument and read a piece at a time. Better yet, rearrange it to make it more readable by grouping his thoughts about players together. He does this a lot, just like I do the multi-quotes thing. You get used to it.
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My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
NIV: I'm not sure I understand some of your points. What does "=!" mean?
I'm very much aware that you guys saved my sore behind in The Office, and very grateful. My point is that I would never have managed to pull out of it alone, and I'm sure sacrificing me early in a successfull gambit would be beneficial to a scum team I was part of (depending on the gambit and the competence of the rest of the team, of course). I'm rubbish in this game, be it as scum or town, and if my death would be benificiary to my team I wouldn't have any problems with it. That beeing said, I have no problems with beeing mislynched if that can pave the way to catching scum.
I think there might have been another point I was to adress, but I can't remember what it was and I'm to tired and medicated to bother looking it up. I'll answer additional questions you might have on the morrow.
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Damnation studios!
P9 - VT - Win
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Niv, I didn't know it was standard procedure to claim voteless right away.
I was just trying to get used to playing with it before someone tried calling me on it for scummy behavior.
This is also why I ws so adamant about not claiming. I've searched, looked under a few stones, and asked buddies who have watched Voyager and NO ONE can explain my character to my ability. I'm surprised that the Miller case is so clear cut, but I'm guessing Voyager is just a backdrop to an interesting game. (As opposed to a game where everything is flavor based and kinda "uninteresting".)
I really don't think our characters really align to our abilities. But that's neither here nor there.
Trying to recall what else you asked me. I think the case on Audino is weak and is being trussed up on rhetoric and semantics. I think the fabulous blue has been all over the place with fab's votes, and a play by play analysis would be interesting.
I'm on the fence of Artifice. Someone mentioned that he was "ordering" to vig to shooot Poggy to prevent the vig from shooting him. I think this is an interesting tactic to stay alive, but it reads as scummy and if we believe his claim, there's nothing an investigator can do.
Could it really be so easy as a blue/Iso/Aud scum team? I mean poggy, I'm having a hard time with because he is "gambits badly as town" guy. I'm getting and remembering that. But blue's attacks make no sense, Iso ignored the obvious, and Audi seems oddly jumpy but neither of the other two have commented on it, instead focussing on me.
Unvote; Vote blue with Iso a close runner up. I'd love to see them both dead today if possible.
Blue needs to provide a reasonable defense for fab's "all over the place" voting style. It's almost mood swingy and seems to vacillate toward the most recent scummy person.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'll deal with by voting you till you die, how bout that poggy? You don't get to be awful and write it off by saying you intended to be awful. if people got away with that, no one would ever get lynched day one.
also, I Greentree you those posts used to be worse. they used to be riddled with unneeded quote tags and written with atrocious spelling/grammar. this is an improvement.
I just hate to not respond to things when I'm catching up, even if my questions are behind, or already answered. it may help if you looked at the "-----"'s as though they are separating a bunch of mini posts I'd have preferred to have made at in response to each thing I'm responding to, rather than as one big post.
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Artifice: I'm talking about that magic analogy you made in post 74. the analogy seams like it missed what DH actually said.
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Audin, do you then think that me and seppel should have bussed you in that game? do you actually thing that the best benefit you are to a scum team is that you give them someone to bus?
Also, you need to stop medicating when you post. It results in speed lynches and WIFOM.
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Arnnaria: since it's going to become obvious quick, or you're going to look scummy cause you're fence sitting, it's one of those things you just claim out front, if the mod allows you to claim it, to avoid it causing problems later
Condidering you've madeit clear you don't understand the flavor, and I strongly do (Voyager was one of my favorite shows in the ST cannon, until it started jumping sharks in the later seasons) please just trust me that some things I could say in the thread could make claim construction for the scum much, much easier. I'll will not be helping them.
What exactly gave you this impression? And what "obvious" did I ignore?
"Should be interesting to see how this plays out", plus you vote the player that counterclaims a miller claim? Uh, yeah, you're scum as the day is long.
You really think I would come into a game and lightning rod the PR's to kill me/investigate me, whatever, unless it was necessary because of the correct play of my character? (Regardless of alignment, actually, as I think about it more). You of all players know my playstyle. I'm not "elaborate gambit" guy. KISS is my principle. The fact you skip past this is so patently obvious it makes my eyes bleed. Occam's razor is what caused the hemoraging.
@Niv: it did. I misread the why DH phrased his post. The principle still stands.
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My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
You really think I would come into a game and lightning rod the PR's to kill me/investigate me, whatever, unless it was necessary because of the correct play of my character?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I have no opinion of the exchange between poggy and artifice. Or rather many conflicting opinions that leads me to remain neutral on the subject. Stop asking me it will get you nowhere. Interesting that two people now have tried to use my indifference as a ploy to get votes on me.
DH Vote: i don't understand the phrase "makes your vote look weak" perhaps explain that. Do you not agree that voting someone helps evoke a reaction? And in this case voting someone you're on the fence about could evoke a reaction that pushes you one way or the other?
Art vote: I don't think you should ignore my case. It's the reason I'm voting. My indifference/neutrality on the claim and counterclaim means you should look at the case more.
Seppel: How dare you
Arn: Indeed, my vote has moved to the people I found scummiest. Isn't that the point of the game O_o.
Also just a note: Lots of aggressive players. Not sure what this means yet.
OK, semesters drawing to a close so ive been busy. Really sorry for not being around. I don't have time to address everything today, but I will have a more comprehensive post up tomorrow.
What I do have time for is a couple thoughts about Artifice.
I think you were the one that used Occam's razor? What's simpler, that two people (poggy + mod) independently reached the same role name + role ability combination or that one person (just poggy) did? Or if you prefer chemistry, how much faster is a 1 reagant reaction than a 2 reagant reaction? Kinetically, on average, a lot.
Looking at the specific instance it seems like something that would be easily derivable by outside people, but its still orders of magnitude more likely that poggy is the only one that did. Which would make your claim false.
Speaking of which, @Artifice: could you do me a favor? Move your vote off poggy to someone else, and keep it there until a vote count goes off. Feel free to revote poggy if you want after the votecount. Your "this vote will not change" line is sending up all sorts of red flags.
Other red flags: the fact that he conveniently counterclaimed without reading the entire thread, even though poggy had already withdrawn his claim. And that he posted he hadnt read the entire thread, as if he knew he would need proof he didn't know something. There's just such an incredible chain of coincidences needed for this CC to be legit. Its so much more likely that a scum with role name (or false claim) seven of nine saw a CC miller opportunity and went for it. Note that by timestamps, he finished reading the thread, processed the fact that poggy withdrew his claim, and composed and posted a new post 6 minutes after the first one. Very very borderline in my head as to whether or not thats possible without having all-ready having read the entire thread.
Language wise, his CC used the word actually or a derivitive twice "I am actually seven of nine, the actual town miller". that repetition is really ugly to me.
So yeah.
Vote: Artifice101
As I said, I'll have more thoughts on others tomorrow.
Also on the poggy joke/gambit thing:
I know poggy IRL, have played mafia with him a lot and know him fairly well. I 100% guarantee it was just a joke. And one that he didn't expect people to take seriously. I responded to it as such in RVS. It was, for him, a standard RVS post. In fact, until someone mentioned it, I didn't even consider the possibility that he was actually claiming Miller there. I'm reading him as town currently, but naturally, I can't guarentee that
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nice try, reasons?
missed this at first, i guess this explains why hes been so cautious, now i dont think he is autotown, still likely town
Okay I buy the story.
I just think playing with semantics and calling what you did a "joke" and what Artifice did a "gambit" is just toying with connotations of words, is all.
Hahaha. I post on my iPad too. Which is why I can't make big multi-quote posts or often have to delete text from a quote so I can add commentary.
1. I missed the scum gambit part. Most people feel shooting the miller is good to stop confusion and scum gambits. I feel even with Art miller claims are null. Would scum CC a miller? I have seen scum do it so I won't go into the WIFOM.
2. So your contradicting yourself in one statement. One to fit Art and one to fit DH. I really don't like this. You seem to think scum are not dumb enough to gambit but dumb enough to ask for a full claim from people. You also forgot DH stated he thought about it further and realized the flaw of asking for the claim. Why is his statement still scummy?
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
It's not a contradiction. Scum and scum are not the same, there are people behind the titles. I'm not of the faith that scum can't pull gambits either, my point is that this proposed gambit looks to poor to be something experienced scum would do.
I also said scum usually try to act as town. Have you ever seen scum deliberately act as scum?
I did NOT forget that he realized the flaw:
How can you not read that? It's in the same post that you just quoted yourself. I have the feeling that I'm been misrepresented pretty hard here. If you did read it but didn't understand it, let me try again.
* I noticed DH proposed a fullclaim
* Scumdar tingling
* Someone (Art?) is opposing the claim with good reasoning
* DH retracts the proposal, since he "remembered something"
* I comment on it eitherway, because...
DOING SOMETHING SCUMMY THEN SAYING "OOPS NO I DIDN'T MEAN IT" DOES NOT MAKE IT TOWNIE.
Sorry for shouting.
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
Dragon, how can you possibly advocate for this after Tordeck already clarified flavor protections were in consideration? Hell, if you read the flavor in the OP, it is quite clear that the scum are in town disguises.
So, twice you have not paid attention.
Add to that the barning of me in the defense of Artifice and Poggy...
If I could vote, it'd be on you right now.
The mafia could be townsfolk in disguise, although the opening post describes a mafia member as being an obvious borg drone. Where did you see anything saying the mafia are crewmen in disguise?
Dragon, this Is mafia. You've made a couple posibly excusable mistakes. People have noticed, and are voting you to add pressure.
Then, others who aren't convinced yet will see how you handle this pressure and vote accordingly.
For example, if I could vote for you, it would NOT be because I was certain you were scum, but moreso to pressure you into reconciling your scummy behavior.
Okay, it wasn't the OP. but after reading this carefully, it should be a huge red flag saying: CAUTION, DO NOT TRY TO FLAVOR GAME!
I think the mods missed this in the last vote count.
I'm pretty sure Aud's vote isn't on me, unless I'm missing something.
It has been corrected
The Family
And why do we need to be fullclaiming at this point in town?
Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying?
I think poggy is town.
It was RVS, I make references in the RVS all the time. .-. I'll do what I please.
I didn't say "that line" did, I said "that post". Reading is tech.
As for why, firstly, she was discouraging people putting role-related info in the thread - and secondly, she was attempting to clarify information about the scum team to someone else. I don't see town doing that in such the way that she did. I'll try to rephrase if I'm not getting my meaning across, because I feel like this statement was horribly unclear.
Unvote, Vote Artifice
Miller claim + coaching?
Why on earth would you breadcrumb this so heavily, so soon?
blue, I'm not sure how your vote on Artifice isn't OMGUS.
I also dislike that Art is directing the Vig to poggy when poggy is not in fact the claimed Miller, but rather, Art is.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Why is DH scummy then? You seem to take DH's comment as scummy and in my view any person worth salt is smart enough to ask questions about this. I have seen many people try to flavor game. How about you Aud? How many people do you know asked for full claims and were scum?
@Iso: How is the miller claim scummy? How is that post coaching?
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Because I was afraid that my theory discussion with Artifice was going to breadcrumb to scum that I was a Vig.
Plus, I've been known to "active lurk" games and I wanted to explain why I haven't been throwing votes around. :/
I swear, you guys on this forum are ridiculous. If you have a huge list of topics that automatically make someone mafia for mentioning, don't you think that they mafia are going to figure that out and not talk about them? I don't see much in the way of real reads to be gained from this type of metagaming.
miller claim isnt scummy, it is, however, a pretty good scum claim. in other words, it in no way clears him, especially if he is seven of nine, mafia member, or if seven of nine miller was a fabricated false claim given to them by the mod.
and in case anyone missed it, i am not seven of nine, and am not a miller.
Pro slip is pro.
Well, Miller returns a "not town" investigation result. It, in and of itself, is not inherently scummy - but coupled with Art's behavior, I think it's worth scrutiny.
As for coaching, it read to me like Art was telling jd to post without trying to draw too much attention to it.
Thing is, it's legitimate, because it shows insight in thought processes, etc.
Kind of like how SK-hunting is widely accrued as a scumtell when there are still scum alive. (See Seppel's behavior in Flame Warriors near the end of the game.)
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Relax. You're nowhere close to lynch or claim range.
You pushed for some sort of claim without reading two key posts, both by the game mod. Either this is ignorance on your part or you thought you could get a soft claim and access information from there.
The first is a mistake, but it's hardly excusable. The second is deliberate fishing and points you to being scum.
If you are not the scummy person in this scenario, make a legitimate case against someone else.
I refuse to have to tell you three times why I found DH's behaviour scummy.
I have not seen scum ask for full claims (usually Void does that), but from the games I've played I've gathered that early fullclaims tend to favorise scum and seldom breaks games. This is not my experience, but what I've heard from others. I find it specially dubious to ask for a flavourclaim when the mod had stated that the game is not breakable by flavour. (Damnit, seems I answered your question yet again. Cya later, principles).
I like DH's comment on not seeing the post by TordeckMod, it looks like he genuinely missed it.
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
-----
i dont want to live on this planet anymore...-Poggy
Why, cause you can't get away with posting garbage? Seriously though, That's all you had to say to my post?
-----
on RVS to DH: I don't know how it works, but it does, read any random old game, and you'll see RVS quickly turns into real discussion somehow in about 40 posts 9/10 times. and it's usually pretty obvious what's a joke, and what's not, and even discussion of that can spur on more discussion.
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Pinky: what exactally is your Iso category?
and in regards to that, I'm not sure why pinky's comment on filing poggy under this "Iso category" makes pinky appear one way or the other.
why is this Iso?
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DH, on the soft claim: No.
On any sort of day one claim in this game: No.
The fact that you're even suggesting this is odd.
i want you to actually tell me in what way you think doing any sort of claim day one could be of benefit?
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Arnnaria: I agree with everything in your 57 with regards to Artifice, but I'm really not sure what your opinion on poggy is coming out of this. I know you you said "poggy's not clear" in your next post, but I'd like to know where you stood exactly on poggy at this point.
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Arnnaria: ok, so, you answer this with an answer similar to DH. i'd actually like to know why this doesn't lean you one way or the other.
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Artifice: I don't see why you're saying we cop/vig poggy instead of lynching poggy while you're still voting him.
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While I do lean town on Artifice given the way this whole thing played out, I'm not sure why pure theory shouldn't dictate him as a Vig target here too.
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I Audin's post didn't stand upon my first read of it, but upon reading DH's breakdown of it, I can't help but agree with everything he says. Given that I agree that poggy is best dealt with by other methods at this point, I would have voted Audin here.
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Artifice, I'm not sure how you got DH advocating whiffing inquisitions on poggy out of that.
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Arnnaria asking for a breakdown of a case throughly fleshed out only a few posts above is pretty odd. don't think it's scummy odd though, just odd odd.
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Thinking like scum to catch scum =! thinking like scum
in on case you are imitating a hypothetical mindset, and it's more done on the lines of "Scum would do this here, lets look for that". The scum just does what the person thinking like scum is looking for.
Thinking like scum =! posting like scum.
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don't like blue's vote on DH at all. if you're going to make the comment "I can't tell if you're over zealous town or just really scummy." in the same post you vote for someone, your vote immediately appears very weak.
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Arnnaria: I don't see how either of those points you make indicate that the case on audin is poor.
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I really don't think discussing who the hypothetical cop/vig shoud target is bad in any way. only outright telling them what to can be a problem however.
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Arnnaria, you should have claimed voteless in your first point.
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Blue's vote on Artifice is terrible. you case aside, I don't think artifice can possibly be scum given the way this seven of nine thing played out.
Blue: tell me in what scenario is it logical for scum to day one counterclaim someone claiming miller? tell me in what way it is possible for Artifice to be scum given the seven of nine exchange.
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Hi seppel
I don't see why to want to know his browser history.
Audin's response doesn't inspire confidence. and just because seppel and I didn't need you that game doesn't we wanted you dead. if you really want to use that game as an example, both seppel and I were constantly misdirecting away from you at the Lyol.
-----
Poggy's response to seppel/arnnaria do little.
-----
DH's unvote looks awful, given that he's been pressing for reasons a good chunk of the game.
I really question why you didn't put that explanation in the unvote post.
That being said, having been on audin's scum team that game, his explanation of how he thinks scum would play with him on their team doesn't mesh at all with how they actually did.
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Iso: explain to me a scenario where Artifice is scum, and makes this claim in this scenario. I also fail to see any direct coaching in that at all.
-----
DH: some things are always scummy some of the time. there is no such thing as an all the time tell, even though there are a few things that I've only seen scum do (joke claiming scum is one). and some things are just 9/10 times more benefitial for scum to do, like, as Iso said, looking for the SK early.
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All that bieng said, if anything needs elaborating on, ask. atm, I'm still completly sold on poggy bieng scum, and have blue and audin as my other potentials at the moment.
/900 words.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
i thought it was an obvious joke, forgot miller claims immediately under most people's plans of how games should go. my vote on arnaria was pressure/obvious bad play in order to evoke responses. not surprised that you think it was bad play. you are also seeming pretty bloodthirsty overall with a post like this.
also, i have some serious issues
DEAL
WITH
IT
2) Ouch. Been there done that (also, this isn't the first time that has come um in a Mafia game...weird. This is the child that picks out scum for you? heh). I can accept that explanation.
Game is getting easier and easier. Thank you, although you didn't really need to claim this at this time. It narrows down for the scum what the rest of us are.
I'd say you've got your flavor mixed up, but again, I'm not going to help the scum team. Already talked to Dragonheart about this.
Again, already spoken to this.
@Seppel: Nice town entrance. Glad to see you, and I won't be making the same stupid mistake on your alignment like I did in StarCraft.
That being said, do you see Iso's complete lack of comprehension of what occured? He also clammed up uncharacteristically with this whole thing about poggy.
Could it really be so easy as a blue/Iso/Aud scum team? I mean poggy, I'm having a hard time with because he is "gambits badly as town" guy. I'm getting and remembering that. But blue's attacks make no sense, Iso ignored the obvious, and Audi seems oddly jumpy but neither of the other two have commented on it, instead focussing on me.
Unvote; Vote blue with Iso a close runner up. I'd love to see them both dead today if possible.
EWP: @Niv: I'm not sure what you mean about whiffing and stuff. Also, if how the exchange played out makes me clearly town, then the fact that it is called "theory" and not fact needs to be applied. IMO of course. That being said, as I've said, poggy is "gambit badly as town" guy. My initial reaction was based on what I had read so far, which did not include his partial retraction. I'm rethinking that.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
I'm very much aware that you guys saved my sore behind in The Office, and very grateful. My point is that I would never have managed to pull out of it alone, and I'm sure sacrificing me early in a successfull gambit would be beneficial to a scum team I was part of (depending on the gambit and the competence of the rest of the team, of course). I'm rubbish in this game, be it as scum or town, and if my death would be benificiary to my team I wouldn't have any problems with it. That beeing said, I have no problems with beeing mislynched if that can pave the way to catching scum.
I think there might have been another point I was to adress, but I can't remember what it was and I'm to tired and medicated to bother looking it up. I'll answer additional questions you might have on the morrow.
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
I was just trying to get used to playing with it before someone tried calling me on it for scummy behavior.
This is also why I ws so adamant about not claiming. I've searched, looked under a few stones, and asked buddies who have watched Voyager and NO ONE can explain my character to my ability. I'm surprised that the Miller case is so clear cut, but I'm guessing Voyager is just a backdrop to an interesting game. (As opposed to a game where everything is flavor based and kinda "uninteresting".)
I really don't think our characters really align to our abilities. But that's neither here nor there.
Trying to recall what else you asked me. I think the case on Audino is weak and is being trussed up on rhetoric and semantics. I think the fabulous blue has been all over the place with fab's votes, and a play by play analysis would be interesting.
I'm on the fence of Artifice. Someone mentioned that he was "ordering" to vig to shooot Poggy to prevent the vig from shooting him. I think this is an interesting tactic to stay alive, but it reads as scummy and if we believe his claim, there's nothing an investigator can do.
Blue needs to provide a reasonable defense for fab's "all over the place" voting style. It's almost mood swingy and seems to vacillate toward the most recent scummy person.
???
Not to be ironic, but: Huh?
What exactly gave you this impression? And what "obvious" did I ignore?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
also, I Greentree you those posts used to be worse. they used to be riddled with unneeded quote tags and written with atrocious spelling/grammar. this is an improvement.
I just hate to not respond to things when I'm catching up, even if my questions are behind, or already answered. it may help if you looked at the "-----"'s as though they are separating a bunch of mini posts I'd have preferred to have made at in response to each thing I'm responding to, rather than as one big post.
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Artifice: I'm talking about that magic analogy you made in post 74. the analogy seams like it missed what DH actually said.
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Audin, do you then think that me and seppel should have bussed you in that game? do you actually thing that the best benefit you are to a scum team is that you give them someone to bus?
Also, you need to stop medicating when you post. It results in speed lynches and WIFOM.
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Arnnaria: since it's going to become obvious quick, or you're going to look scummy cause you're fence sitting, it's one of those things you just claim out front, if the mod allows you to claim it, to avoid it causing problems later
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
"Should be interesting to see how this plays out", plus you vote the player that counterclaims a miller claim? Uh, yeah, you're scum as the day is long.
You really think I would come into a game and lightning rod the PR's to kill me/investigate me, whatever, unless it was necessary because of the correct play of my character? (Regardless of alignment, actually, as I think about it more). You of all players know my playstyle. I'm not "elaborate gambit" guy. KISS is my principle. The fact you skip past this is so patently obvious it makes my eyes bleed. Occam's razor is what caused the hemoraging.
@Niv: it did. I misread the why DH phrased his post. The principle still stands.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Yes.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
in what scenario can you picture scum artifice "counterclaiming" Poggy in this fashion?
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
So you think his Miller claim isn't the full picture?
Artifice said he stopped reading after my post of Seven of Nine Miller flavor.
It is possible that Artifice IS Seven of NIne but NOT a miller, and is barning my logic (and Poggy's logic) to get an innocent lynched.
However, this vote only holds true if you believe Artifice would be that desperate to one for one Poggy.
In the scenario where Artifice is 7 of 9 but scum and hoping for an easy mislynch of poggy.
Actually, you summed up my thoughts nicely.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
you forgot the one where scum get seven of nine as a false claim and therefore can counterclaim me like a champ
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
DH Vote: i don't understand the phrase "makes your vote look weak" perhaps explain that. Do you not agree that voting someone helps evoke a reaction? And in this case voting someone you're on the fence about could evoke a reaction that pushes you one way or the other?
Art vote: I don't think you should ignore my case. It's the reason I'm voting. My indifference/neutrality on the claim and counterclaim means you should look at the case more.
Seppel: How dare you
Arn: Indeed, my vote has moved to the people I found scummiest. Isn't that the point of the game O_o.
Also just a note: Lots of aggressive players. Not sure what this means yet.
Maybe I'm jealous that you can vote. (That and the general fabulosity.)
What I do have time for is a couple thoughts about Artifice.
I think you were the one that used Occam's razor? What's simpler, that two people (poggy + mod) independently reached the same role name + role ability combination or that one person (just poggy) did? Or if you prefer chemistry, how much faster is a 1 reagant reaction than a 2 reagant reaction? Kinetically, on average, a lot.
Looking at the specific instance it seems like something that would be easily derivable by outside people, but its still orders of magnitude more likely that poggy is the only one that did. Which would make your claim false.
Speaking of which, @Artifice: could you do me a favor? Move your vote off poggy to someone else, and keep it there until a vote count goes off. Feel free to revote poggy if you want after the votecount. Your "this vote will not change" line is sending up all sorts of red flags.
Other red flags: the fact that he conveniently counterclaimed without reading the entire thread, even though poggy had already withdrawn his claim. And that he posted he hadnt read the entire thread, as if he knew he would need proof he didn't know something. There's just such an incredible chain of coincidences needed for this CC to be legit. Its so much more likely that a scum with role name (or false claim) seven of nine saw a CC miller opportunity and went for it. Note that by timestamps, he finished reading the thread, processed the fact that poggy withdrew his claim, and composed and posted a new post 6 minutes after the first one. Very very borderline in my head as to whether or not thats possible without having all-ready having read the entire thread.
Language wise, his CC used the word actually or a derivitive twice "I am actually seven of nine, the actual town miller". that repetition is really ugly to me.
So yeah.
Vote: Artifice101
As I said, I'll have more thoughts on others tomorrow.
Also on the poggy joke/gambit thing:
I know poggy IRL, have played mafia with him a lot and know him fairly well. I 100% guarantee it was just a joke. And one that he didn't expect people to take seriously. I responded to it as such in RVS. It was, for him, a standard RVS post. In fact, until someone mentioned it, I didn't even consider the possibility that he was actually claiming Miller there. I'm reading him as town currently, but naturally, I can't guarentee that