2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Everyone listing just their name would be good for a "full claim" IMO. We could infer abilities from there, but it would still be quite difficult for the mafia to determine power roles. On the flip-side, it would help with alignment quite a lot for those of us who know the universe well.
So basically you want a name claim for flavorgaming purposes? Not a fan of this idea.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Everyone listing just their name would be good for a "full claim" IMO. We could infer abilities from there, but it would still be quite difficult for the mafia to determine power roles. On the flip-side, it would help with alignment quite a lot for those of us who know the universe well.
This makes no sense whatsoever. How can we
1) infer abilities from claiming their name and
2) make it difficult for mafia to infer abilities from claimed names.
If we can infer abilities, the mafia can. Why are you advocating flavorgaming and fishing for information.
unvote, vote dragonheart91
Not liking the two "unvotes because RVS is over" cma's.
The sentence was supposed to say "we could infer alignment from the names, but it would be difficult for the mafia to infer power roles." In any case, a character named "The Doctor" messes up that idea. I don't advocate claiming after remembering that.
So yeah, that was rather a nonsense post. Other than that, do you have an actual argument against me? A vote is an attack, and I don't really like people coming after me. Please share your voting logic.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
Poggy said he was joking. Seven of Nine is literally the only character I know from the series, and it only makes sense that she would be a Miller. However, Poggy claiming Miller creates a conundrum because Artifice is claiming the same thing.
Artifice's gamble is illogical if he's lying. What does he gain? We lynch Poggy, he flips Miller, we lynch him. Last time I checked one for oneing isn't in the mafias best interest.
So, Artifice must be telling the truth. And we have to accept the fact that two players and the mod (Poggy, me, and Tordeck) all saw the exact same mafia role for one character. (Arguably, the most famous character from this series.)
Accepting that three people share flavor ideas is a lot more plausible than Artifice being a horrid mafia member.
Actually, that trade would be pretty ok for the mafia. We would mislynch today, then they get a kill tonight, then we kill one of them, then they get another kill tomorrow. The end result is us going into a day phase with three less members and the mafia losing one member. The only downside is that we would get two cop scans in the meantime and/or a potential shot at protection.
I don't think that's what is happening though. It seems likely to me that poggydude was being silly with his claim to try and stir people up, then Artifice only read half the thread and thought he had to counter-claim. That gives off a neutral read for poggydude and a town read on Artifice. This is how I'm choosing to interpret events given the information presented in the thread.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
When someone says full claim. I see it as flavor, character and role.
That to me is a full claim. As for flavor of Voyager, sorry not a fan......ducks Tordeck's tomato.........I don't know much of anything about the characters on the show. I was more of a First Generation fan.
That was also why I asked Arnn what full flavor he was talking about. All I saw was a character claim.
So lets all clarify:
Full claim = mass claim of whole role PM
Soft claim = character claim, race, lackthereof, etc.
Lets not trip over terminology. Also, neither is a good idea at the moment. Lets keep information simple and tight for now. I had to spill my role as required by the nature of it, but I'd like to keep the scum gessing as much as possible from here on out.
As for Poggy's comment I'm going to file that under my Iso category.
Can you flesh out this sentence, please? What do you mean?
Everyone listing just their name would be good for a "full claim" IMO. We could infer abilities from there, but it would still be quite difficult for the mafia to determine power roles. On the flip-side, it would help with alignment quite a lot for those of us who know the universe well.
I strongly disagree. There is a simple, flavorful reason for this if you think about it for just a nanosecond.
I don't think that's what is happening though. It seems likely to me that poggydude was being silly with his claim to try and stir people up, then Artifice only read half the thread and thought he had to counter-claim. That gives off a neutral read for poggydude and a town read on Artifice. This is how I'm choosing to interpret events given the information presented in the thread.
So, while our journeys to getting there are different, we both arrive at the same place. Artifice leans heavily town, Poggy remains a mystery.
Arn and Dragon: Dueling townies. So far so good. This game is going to be easy. (To clarify, if you two are scum, you do a damn good job of imitating town trying to solve the puzzle with logic. Occams says no.)
BTW, we don't lynch Poggy. We let the Cop (which there sure as hell should be, given my role) or Vig (lotsa phasers, pew pew) handle that overNight.
Looking into the other eight of us makes this game 1/3 solved. Gotta love happy little accidents
Who hasn't posted?
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Arn and Dragon: Dueling townies. So far so good. This game is going to be easy. (To clarify, if you two are scum, you do a damn good job of imitating town trying to solve the puzzle with logic. Occams says no.)
BTW, we don't lynch Poggy. We let the Cop (which there sure as hell should be, given my role) or Vig (lotsa phasers, pew pew) handle that overNight.
Looking into the other eight of us makes this game 1/3 solved. Gotta love happy little accidents
Who hasn't posted?
Hypothetical situation for you Artifice. If there is a vig with a limited number of shots, should (s)he "roll the dice" on Poggy? One shot? Two shot?
Everyone listing just their name would be good for a "full claim" IMO. We could infer abilities from there, but it would still be quite difficult for the mafia to determine power roles. On the flip-side, it would help with alignment quite a lot for those of us who know the universe well.
The sentence was supposed to say "we could infer alignment from the names, but it would be difficult for the mafia to infer power roles." In any case, a character named "The Doctor" messes up that idea. I don't advocate claiming after remembering that.
So yeah, that was rather a nonsense post. Other than that, do you have an actual argument against me? A vote is an attack, and I don't really like people coming after me. Please share your voting logic.
That makes more sense. I don't advocate claiming at all so I've still got my eye on you, but unvote
To the two people who said "oh since RVS is over/Serious vote" why bother pointing out you were unvoting your RVS?
Actually, that trade would be pretty ok for the mafia. We would mislynch today, then they get a kill tonight, then we kill one of them, then they get another kill tomorrow. The end result is us going into a day phase with three less members and the mafia losing one member. The only downside is that we would get two cop scans in the meantime and/or a potential shot at protection.
I don't think the trade would be ok at all, especially when the player we are talking about is Artifice aka not a newbie, who would be a valued member of the scum team. If an inexperienced/bad player had done it (like for instance, myself) then the value of the trade could be discussed. I do think that scum would rather use conventional methods (act like they are town) to create mislynches and not reveal themselves.
Honestly I find this reasoning, as well as the proposed name claim, dodgy. The name claim would lead to flavour speculation to guess on alignments, and that's not gonna catch scum (it's even modconfirmed). What it would do, is give scum the opportunity to guess power-roles from the flavour, which would increase their opportunity of hitting PR's with the NK and be very bad for town.
IGMEOY.
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Damnation studios!
P9 - VT - Win
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Hypothetical situation for you Artifice. If there is a vig with a limited number of shots, should (s)he "roll the dice" on Poggy? One shot? Two shot?
Hmm. Actually your question makes me rethink the post only because I don't want to lightning rod all the PRs to poggy and waste investigations.
I'd say the Vig (assuming one) shooting poggy is fine regardless of charges. In which case the Cop, with fewer targets (you, me, Arn all behaviorally/logically readable) would be of better value looking elsewhere.
Me -- discussed
poggy -- Vig target
Cop -- non-target
Arn -- reads very town
Dragon --reads very town
That leaves a 3 in 7 chance of hitting scum, assuming we lynch badly toDay and are wrong on poggy. Ideally we lynch scum, and the Cop still has a 2 in 7 chance of getting there. That's what I see anyway.
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Hmm. Actually your question makes me rethink the post only because I don't want to lightning rod all the PRs to poggy and waste investigations.
I'd say the Vig (assuming one) shooting poggy is fine regardless of charges. In which case the Cop, with fewer targets (you, me, Arn all behaviorally/logically readable) would be of better value looking elsewhere.
Me -- discussed
poggy -- Vig target
Cop -- non-target
Arn -- reads very town
Dragon --reads very town
That leaves a 3 in 7 chance of hitting scum, assuming we lynch badly toDay and are wrong on poggy. Ideally we lynch scum, and the Cop still has a 2 in 7 chance of getting there. That's what I see anyway.
Alright, just a "theory" question I suppose. I was gonna ask the hypothetical in the theory thread, but didn't want to get in trouble for discussing an ongoing game.
especially when the player we are talking about is Artifice aka not a newbie, who would be a valued member of the scum team. If an inexperienced/bad player had done it (like for instance, myself) then the value of the trade could be discussed.
#2 You declare yourself as a newbie. (Not inherently scummy, but it makes the first point look worse and it IS scummy when used as a defense.)
#3 While declaring yourself a newbie, you mention that the mafia wouldn't mind losing you if you were on their team. You are again putting yourself in a mafia mind-set here.
I do think that scum would rather use conventional methods (act like they are town) to create mislynches and not reveal themselves.
Honestly I find this reasoning, as well as the proposed name claim, dodgy. The name claim would lead to flavour speculation to guess on alignments, and that's not gonna catch scum (it's even modconfirmed).
#4 You state obvious information and that the mod has backed it up. If it's so obvious and even the mod said so, then why are you still reminding us?
What it would do, is give scum the opportunity to guess power-roles from the flavour, which would increase their opportunity of hitting PR's with the NK and be very bad for town.
IGMEOY.
And then you are suddenly using specific mafia terms like a pro. I had to go look up IGMEOY in the mafia reference dictionary on this forum and I figured out PR and NK as Power Role and Night Kill. How is it that you are such a newb that your mistakes should be ignored and the mafia wouldn't mind losing you, but you are already pretty intimately familiar with forum-specific mafia abbreviations.
Vote Audinho I am confident enough to push a wagon at you and preferably force a claim at L-2. Attacking me to deflect doesn't change the fact that you are posting in a clearly mafia mind-set.
Btw, I would advocate the cop scanning poggydude tonight and the Vigilante (if any) shooting at his own discretion depending on his reads and # of total shots.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
Can you flesh out this sentence, please? What do you mean?
In short Flame Warriors and Mario Brothers Mafia. Both times Iso did a gambit that either got him lynched (claiming another character that was in the game) or got scum continuing to push on the fake hammer comment. *cough* Art *cough*
vote: Aud
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mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
Btw, I would advocate the cop scanning poggydude tonight and the Vigilante (if any) shooting at his own discretion depending on his reads and # of total shots.
Eh, we differ. Wasting some portion of the power seems exceptionaly bad. Why gangtackle the guy? That's like Gitaxian Probe'ing a player, then Inquisition of Kozilek'ing them when you know there's no relevant target. Why wash out the card advantage? Nod if you follow me. I know you're from elsewhere....
@poggy: thoughts?
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In short Flame Warriors and Mario Brothers Mafia. Both times Iso did a gambit that either got him lynched (claiming another character that was in the game) or got scum continuing to push on the fake hammer comment. *cough* Art *cough*
Fake hammer whut?
vote: Aud
Why?
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I laid it out pretty clearly in post #72. Beyond that, both that post and his previous one before it sound like they were written from a mafia perspective. Look at the way he phrases things and think about whether a townie would say that. It's subtle, but it's there.
Once you are done reading my analysis and his last two posts, make your own decision and post your reasons.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
For reference, I like Audi's reasoning, although I hate the "IGMEOY".
@blue: have you read recent developments? If so, why haven't you commented on them?
What do you think of poggydude's "I'ma a miller hepraderp" post?
Don't care about it. It either was or wasn't a ploy. He either is or isn't 7 of 9. The CC either was or wasn't legitimate. They could both be telling the truth, both lying, or one is telling the truth while the other isn't. I have some theories developing, but speculating about the claim does nothing for me so I'm just going to keep watching how it all plays out.
Also, who are the two people you are refering to here? Why not call them out by name?
Not sure why I need to answer this. So I won't. You figure it out.
I laid it out pretty clearly in post #72. Beyond that, both that post and his previous one before it sound like they were written from a mafia perspective. Look at the way he phrases things and think about whether a townie would say that. It's subtle, but it's there.
Once you are done reading my analysis and his last two posts, make your own decision and post your reasons.
I'm not sure I agree with you dragon.
One time, a mentor told me to catch scum you need to think like scum.
And, at this point, my "ability" should be kinda apparent to you all...
@Audinho: This is such a bad post. I already told you I was watching you, and now you post this... Lemme break it down:
#1 You discuss the mafia's situation from what appears to be a mafia perspective and talk about their best course of action.
#2 You declare yourself as a newbie. (Not inherently scummy, but it makes the first point look worse and it IS scummy when used as a defense.)
#3 While declaring yourself a newbie, you mention that the mafia wouldn't mind losing you if you were on their team. You are again putting yourself in a mafia mind-set here.
#4 You state obvious information and that the mod has backed it up. If it's so obvious and even the mod said so, then why are you still reminding us?
And then you are suddenly using specific mafia terms like a pro. I had to go look up IGMEOY in the mafia reference dictionary on this forum and I figured out PR and NK as Power Role and Night Kill. How is it that you are such a newb that your mistakes should be ignored and the mafia wouldn't mind losing you, but you are already pretty intimately familiar with forum-specific mafia abbreviations.
Vote Audinho I am confident enough to push a wagon at you and preferably force a claim at L-2. Attacking me to deflect doesn't change the fact that you are posting in a clearly mafia mind-set.
Btw, I would advocate the cop scanning poggydude tonight and the Vigilante (if any) shooting at his own discretion depending on his reads and # of total shots.
I don't like this post at all actually. I can't tell if you're over zealous town or just really scummy. The warning Aud in advance not to OMGUS you and the over-explanation of how you had to look up these Mafia terms like IGMEOY and NK and PR how you figured those two out just feels like you're trying too hard to appear innocent. I also don't like you discussing what the cop and vig should do as if the day is already over O_o.
I laid it out pretty clearly in post #72. Beyond that, both that post and his previous one before it sound like they were written from a mafia perspective. Look at the way he phrases things and think about whether a townie would say that. It's subtle, but it's there.
Once you are done reading my analysis and his last two posts, make your own decision and post your reasons.
I think you're trying to make wine out of water.
After re reading, it appears as if you're playing with semantics.
After re reading, it appears as if you're playing with semantics.
The thing is, though, sematic tells like this are a legitimate way of hunting scum.
People have a hard time divorcing themselves from their posts and their alignment. It isn't universal or perfectly reliable, but it does happen.
I am at this point more than willing to lynch blue, BTW. If he flips scum, we can look back and see if his unwillingness to metion people's names in his posts is because he is coaching his scum buddies.
He also is avoiding the major topic of discussion, which is about a very likely scum, aka poggy. It feels as though he wants this subject to just go away.
I'll keep my vote where it is, for the moment, until everyone checks in.
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1) You asked me about putting Poggy under my Iso category. I was explaining things that Iso did that has Poggy under Iso category. Did you read post 30?
I'm surprised you don't see the comparison between mario world and what Iso did there and what Poggy stated in post 30.
As for my vote. Aud stated that Art was:
I don't think the trade would be ok at all, especially when the player we are talking about is Artifice aka not a newbie, who would be a valued member of the scum team.
A valued member of the scum team? Seriously not a value member for town but for the scum team.
Then we have this from Aud:
I do think that scum would rather use conventional methods (act like they are town) to create mislynches and not reveal themselves.
Honestly I find this reasoning, as well as the proposed name claim, dodgy. The name claim would lead to flavour speculation to guess on alignments, and that's not gonna catch scum (it's even modconfirmed). What it would do, is give scum the opportunity to guess power-roles from the flavour, which would increase their opportunity of hitting PR's with the NK and be very bad for town.
He thinks that scum would act town but find DH scummy for proposing flavor speculation. How does that = someone acting town. Most people find proposing flavor gaming scummy.
Add to that DH attacks Aud first in regards to his actions early on, DH mentions flavor gaming then retracts the statement when he thinks further his comments come off as OMGUS then reading the game.
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mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
Comparison, sure. Parallel? No. One was RVS (poggy), the other was bad gambit (Iso).
Ok. No more reasonless votes.
1) What did you think of what Poggy stated.
2) I got head butt in the nose by my child earlier today. Communication was not in the cards earlier, but Aud's post is scummy and worthy of a vote.
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mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
I don't like this post at all actually. I can't tell if you're over zealous town or just really scummy. The warning Aud in advance not to OMGUS you and the over-explanation of how you had to look up these Mafia terms like IGMEOY and NK and PR how you figured those two out just feels like you're trying too hard to appear innocent. I also don't like you discussing what the cop and vig should do as if the day is already over O_o.
i think I like my vote where it was
vote Dragonheart91
I'm always happy to provide a clear and concise defense. I am usually zealous. I like the game to move and I like to hunt scum. I see no reason to hide in the background when there is work to be done. Explaining that I looked up the terms is not supposed to make me look innocent by any means. It is merely a statement relating to the specific terms used on this forum and the fact that I don't know all of them yet. Audinho obviously DOES know the forum terms surprisingly well for someone who claims to be a newbie.
I will agree that discussing the cop and vigilante actions this early in the day is probably inappropriate, but I didn't bring it up myself. The first mention of what the cop and/or vigilante should do tonight came in post #62 from Artifice 101. I wanted to weight in on the subject as long as it was being discussed.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
The thing is, though, sematic tells like this are a legitimate way of hunting scum.
it seems this use of semantics is meant to make him look scummier not that he was inherently scummy. IE Reaching.
People have a hard time divorcing themselves from their posts and their alignment. It isn't universal or perfectly reliable, but it does happen.
I am at this point more than willing to lynch blue, BTW. If he flips scum, we can look back and see if his unwillingness to metion people's names in his posts is because he is coaching his scum buddies.
Yeah I think you're overreaching here. You're trying too hard to imply i'm scum without actually voting. Especially considering "mention people's names in his posts" refers to one post. If you see semantics as a legitimate way to analyze a person's behavior and alignment then let's use semantics on you shall we?
You say "more than willing to lynch" which means you're ready for the day to end. You want me dead based on three posts. I find it hard to believe that comes from a town perspective. It's not this "short days favor the mafia" because of lack of info, it's because why wouldn't you be paranoid that you're wrong with this little to go on?
You say unwillingness to mention people's names in his posts, like a petulant child and you're referring to one post. Not only does it make it sound like I'm guilty of some recurring event, but you're also threatening me. Not in a "I think you're scum so I'm going to get you lynched" kind of way but a "You better start putting names in your posts or else" kind of way. Not sure what the or else could mean since you think this info would only be useful after I'm lynched.
This last part is wifom but I'm going to say it none the less. If I was coaching scumbuddies and it was that obvious to you then all you'd have to do is look back at the posts to whom I was referring (easy enough since there's only two pages of posts at this point) and lynch them. But what good would it do for the town for you to mention this RIGHT NOW? It doesn't make sense. The only reason I can see for you to make that comment is to seem more town.
If you had said something like "he's trying to look like he's scum hunting" I could understand because then you'd be implying that I was making something up, but you don't even do that. If you want to have a semantics war you should ask Pinkys_Brain how fruitful that would be (excepting the fact that I'm a fruit)
He also is avoiding the major topic of discussion, which is about a very likely scum, aka poggy. It feels as though he wants this subject to just go away.
I think you're scummier than Poggy I don't see exactly what makes poggy very likely scum? And explain how "I'm going to watch how it plays out" means I "want(s) the subject to just go away"? It means, I'm going to keep watching because I have no strong feelings one way or the other and if they do something scummy I'll vote.
blue, you are jumping all over the place. You accuse ME of being overzealous, but you are really going at it here. I'm going to keep my vote in place until I hear from Audinho to defend himself or until someone else is obviously scum.
I think my points against Audinho stand and I would encourage others to vote for him.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
Arn and Dragon: Dueling townies. So far so good. This game is going to be easy. (To clarify, if you two are scum, you do a damn good job of imitating town trying to solve the puzzle with logic. Occams says no.)
BTW, we don't lynch Poggy. We let the Cop (which there sure as hell should be, given my role) or Vig (lotsa phasers, pew pew) handle that overNight.
Looking into the other eight of us makes this game 1/3 solved. Gotta love happy little accidents
Who hasn't posted?
Thanks for doing the work. I'm going to assume that you're town until proven otherwise. Here's me picking up the slack: I have a town read on Niv for this post:
#1 You discuss the mafia's situation from what appears to be a mafia perspective and talk about their best course of action.
#2 You declare yourself as a newbie. (Not inherently scummy, but it makes the first point look worse and it IS scummy when used as a defense.)
#3 While declaring yourself a newbie, you mention that the mafia wouldn't mind losing you if you were on their team. You are again putting yourself in a mafia mind-set here.
#4 You state obvious information and that the mod has backed it up. If it's so obvious and even the mod said so, then why are you still reminding us?
And then you are suddenly using specific mafia terms like a pro. I had to go look up IGMEOY in the mafia reference dictionary on this forum and I figured out PR and NK as Power Role and Night Kill. How is it that you are such a newb that your mistakes should be ignored and the mafia wouldn't mind losing you, but you are already pretty intimately familiar with forum-specific mafia abbreviations.
Vote Audinho I am confident enough to push a wagon at you and preferably force a claim at L-2. Attacking me to deflect doesn't change the fact that you are posting in a clearly mafia mind-set.
#1: Obviously. The matter discussed was, and you yourself brought this up: "Is it ok for mafia to trade one to one?". In this matter it is important to wear a scummy hat and think "What would I have thought about this were I scum". I like to try and think like scum to figure out what they are doing, and who's doing it. Would probably help a lot if I actually got to participate in killing scum someday.
#2: I am a newbie. You can check my sig for completed games. I bring up that I'm a newbie to use myself in the example for illustrative porposes. By newbie I mean that I'm not an experienced player and in my one completed scumgame I played terribly, hence I would not be that much of a valuable asset to a scumteam.
#3: Same reason as #1. To figure out how scum would have thought, you need to think like scum, no?
#4: It needed to be stated, since you thought flavourgaming would help us even after the Mod had stated it. I'm aware that you later pulled the statement back (before I posted), but I found it dodgy and important to note. As for the terminology: I know the terminology, but I also knew that before my very first game since I read up on it. Reading mafia games without knowing the abbrevations is a nightmare.
(1)A valued member of the scum team? Seriously not a value member for town but for the scum team.
(2)He thinks that scum would act town but find DH scummy for proposing flavor speculation. How does that = someone acting town. Most people find proposing flavor gaming scummy.
Add to that DH attacks Aud first in regards to his actions early on, DH mentions flavor gaming then retracts the statement when he thinks further his comments come off as OMGUS then reading the game.
1: We were discussing if Art was pulling a scum gambit. Art beeing a valued member of town doesn't apply, since Art beeing town would make the discussion moot. FTR I believe strongly in Arts claim that he is town.
2: In your experience, what does scum normally do to avoid losing? Act like town, or pull crazy gambits? Proposing flavour speculation is scummy, yes, and that's why I commented on it. I didn't say scum are always successfull in acting town, then this game would have been very hard to play, wouldn't it?
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one thing real quick, i am not a miller i am not seven of nine.
i was insanely (un)lucky in my joke claim it seems or art is pulling an interesting gambit. either way it seems important to nega- claim that
What's the difference between a "joke" and a "gambit"?
As far as I can tell, your "joke" claim is just another word for "gambit." You were serious about catching scum with your joke. So why is your action excusable when Artifice's isn't?
what i totally forgot was that miller claims day 1 are actually totally acceptable moves and therefore there was a high chance id be taken seriously. if i claimed doc i probably wouldnt be taken as seriously but if someone pulled an artifice with doc everything would be screwed hard. it was basically a way to start convorsation without some derpy crap coming out of rvs.
@arnaria, i am saying that my fake claim was an insanely good call that i matched flavor with role with nothing but a cursory look through a wikipedia page. I was saying art could be pulling an insane gambit to counterclaim without actually being seven of nine, or by actually being a scum seven of nine(not sure if this is likely) or maybe this is one of scums false claims.
i never said art's action was inexcusable, why are you putting words in my mouth?
oh actually, now that i reread that seppel want the EXACT order of pages, i believe i checked seven of nine at first but only slightly and thought shed be scum because she was borg, after looking at my other options i went back to her and saw she worked on the voyager(on the sidebar) and therefore felt a miller claim fit her.
OoG stuff. Niv said he'd talk to me about my playstyle.
On a game-related note, however, this post overall makes me feel better about pinky.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So basically you want a name claim for flavorgaming purposes? Not a fan of this idea.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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This makes no sense whatsoever. How can we
1) infer abilities from claiming their name and
2) make it difficult for mafia to infer abilities from claimed names.
If we can infer abilities, the mafia can. Why are you advocating flavorgaming and fishing for information.
unvote, vote dragonheart91
Not liking the two "unvotes because RVS is over" cma's.
So yeah, that was rather a nonsense post. Other than that, do you have an actual argument against me? A vote is an attack, and I don't really like people coming after me. Please share your voting logic.
Poggy said he was joking. Seven of Nine is literally the only character I know from the series, and it only makes sense that she would be a Miller. However, Poggy claiming Miller creates a conundrum because Artifice is claiming the same thing.
Artifice's gamble is illogical if he's lying. What does he gain? We lynch Poggy, he flips Miller, we lynch him. Last time I checked one for oneing isn't in the mafias best interest.
So, Artifice must be telling the truth. And we have to accept the fact that two players and the mod (Poggy, me, and Tordeck) all saw the exact same mafia role for one character. (Arguably, the most famous character from this series.)
Accepting that three people share flavor ideas is a lot more plausible than Artifice being a horrid mafia member.
I don't think that's what is happening though. It seems likely to me that poggydude was being silly with his claim to try and stir people up, then Artifice only read half the thread and thought he had to counter-claim. That gives off a neutral read for poggydude and a town read on Artifice. This is how I'm choosing to interpret events given the information presented in the thread.
Full claim = mass claim of whole role PM
Soft claim = character claim, race, lackthereof, etc.
Lets not trip over terminology. Also, neither is a good idea at the moment. Lets keep information simple and tight for now. I had to spill my role as required by the nature of it, but I'd like to keep the scum gessing as much as possible from here on out.
Can you flesh out this sentence, please? What do you mean?
I strongly disagree. There is a simple, flavorful reason for this if you think about it for just a nanosecond.
First of all, please don't make references the rest of us aren't going to get with out explaining them. Thanks ahead of time.
Second of all, why does that line "make you feel better" exactly?
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So, while our journeys to getting there are different, we both arrive at the same place. Artifice leans heavily town, Poggy remains a mystery.
BTW, we don't lynch Poggy. We let the Cop (which there sure as hell should be, given my role) or Vig (lotsa phasers, pew pew) handle that overNight.
Looking into the other eight of us makes this game 1/3 solved. Gotta love happy little accidents
Who hasn't posted?
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Hypothetical situation for you Artifice. If there is a vig with a limited number of shots, should (s)he "roll the dice" on Poggy? One shot? Two shot?
Seppel *waves, warily*...
That's it? Appears so:
Even the co-mods have posted.
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That makes more sense. I don't advocate claiming at all so I've still got my eye on you, but unvote
To the two people who said "oh since RVS is over/Serious vote" why bother pointing out you were unvoting your RVS?
I don't think the trade would be ok at all, especially when the player we are talking about is Artifice aka not a newbie, who would be a valued member of the scum team. If an inexperienced/bad player had done it (like for instance, myself) then the value of the trade could be discussed. I do think that scum would rather use conventional methods (act like they are town) to create mislynches and not reveal themselves.
Honestly I find this reasoning, as well as the proposed name claim, dodgy. The name claim would lead to flavour speculation to guess on alignments, and that's not gonna catch scum (it's even modconfirmed). What it would do, is give scum the opportunity to guess power-roles from the flavour, which would increase their opportunity of hitting PR's with the NK and be very bad for town.
IGMEOY.
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I just did it since just a bolded unvote looks silly.
Damnation studios!
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Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
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Work hard, play casually
I'd say the Vig (assuming one) shooting poggy is fine regardless of charges. In which case the Cop, with fewer targets (you, me, Arn all behaviorally/logically readable) would be of better value looking elsewhere.
Me -- discussed
poggy -- Vig target
Cop -- non-target
Arn -- reads very town
Dragon --reads very town
That leaves a 3 in 7 chance of hitting scum, assuming we lynch badly toDay and are wrong on poggy. Ideally we lynch scum, and the Cop still has a 2 in 7 chance of getting there. That's what I see anyway.
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@blue: have you read recent developments? If so, why haven't you commented on them?
What do you think of poggydude's "I'ma a miller hepraderp" post?
Also, who are the two people you are refering to here? Why not call them out by name?
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Alright, just a "theory" question I suppose. I was gonna ask the hypothetical in the theory thread, but didn't want to get in trouble for discussing an ongoing game.
Maybe a FoS would have been more accurate.
Damnation studios!
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Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
#1 You discuss the mafia's situation from what appears to be a mafia perspective and talk about their best course of action.
#2 You declare yourself as a newbie. (Not inherently scummy, but it makes the first point look worse and it IS scummy when used as a defense.)
#3 While declaring yourself a newbie, you mention that the mafia wouldn't mind losing you if you were on their team. You are again putting yourself in a mafia mind-set here.
#4 You state obvious information and that the mod has backed it up. If it's so obvious and even the mod said so, then why are you still reminding us?
And then you are suddenly using specific mafia terms like a pro. I had to go look up IGMEOY in the mafia reference dictionary on this forum and I figured out PR and NK as Power Role and Night Kill. How is it that you are such a newb that your mistakes should be ignored and the mafia wouldn't mind losing you, but you are already pretty intimately familiar with forum-specific mafia abbreviations.
Vote Audinho I am confident enough to push a wagon at you and preferably force a claim at L-2. Attacking me to deflect doesn't change the fact that you are posting in a clearly mafia mind-set.
Btw, I would advocate the cop scanning poggydude tonight and the Vigilante (if any) shooting at his own discretion depending on his reads and # of total shots.
In short Flame Warriors and Mario Brothers Mafia. Both times Iso did a gambit that either got him lynched (claiming another character that was in the game) or got scum continuing to push on the fake hammer comment. *cough* Art *cough*
vote: Aud
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
@poggy: thoughts?
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Why?
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
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@Pinkys_brain: Why the vote? You aren't off my scumdar and voting along with me doesn't automatically make you non-scum. What is your logic here?
Can someone explain the case on Aud?
Once you are done reading my analysis and his last two posts, make your own decision and post your reasons.
Don't care about it. It either was or wasn't a ploy. He either is or isn't 7 of 9. The CC either was or wasn't legitimate. They could both be telling the truth, both lying, or one is telling the truth while the other isn't. I have some theories developing, but speculating about the claim does nothing for me so I'm just going to keep watching how it all plays out.
Not sure why I need to answer this. So I won't. You figure it out.
I'm not sure I agree with you dragon.
One time, a mentor told me to catch scum you need to think like scum.
And, at this point, my "ability" should be kinda apparent to you all...
I don't like this post at all actually. I can't tell if you're over zealous town or just really scummy. The warning Aud in advance not to OMGUS you and the over-explanation of how you had to look up these Mafia terms like IGMEOY and NK and PR how you figured those two out just feels like you're trying too hard to appear innocent. I also don't like you discussing what the cop and vig should do as if the day is already over O_o.
i think I like my vote where it was
vote Dragonheart91
I think you're trying to make wine out of water.
After re reading, it appears as if you're playing with semantics.
People have a hard time divorcing themselves from their posts and their alignment. It isn't universal or perfectly reliable, but it does happen.
I am at this point more than willing to lynch blue, BTW. If he flips scum, we can look back and see if his unwillingness to metion people's names in his posts is because he is coaching his scum buddies.
He also is avoiding the major topic of discussion, which is about a very likely scum, aka poggy. It feels as though he wants this subject to just go away.
I'll keep my vote where it is, for the moment, until everyone checks in.
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1) You asked me about putting Poggy under my Iso category. I was explaining things that Iso did that has Poggy under Iso category. Did you read post 30?
I'm surprised you don't see the comparison between mario world and what Iso did there and what Poggy stated in post 30.
As for my vote. Aud stated that Art was:
A valued member of the scum team? Seriously not a value member for town but for the scum team.
Then we have this from Aud:
He thinks that scum would act town but find DH scummy for proposing flavor speculation. How does that = someone acting town. Most people find proposing flavor gaming scummy.
Add to that DH attacks Aud first in regards to his actions early on, DH mentions flavor gaming then retracts the statement when he thinks further his comments come off as OMGUS then reading the game.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
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Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Ok. No more reasonless votes.
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1) What did you think of what Poggy stated.
2) I got head butt in the nose by my child earlier today. Communication was not in the cards earlier, but Aud's post is scummy and worthy of a vote.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Sorry my question to Art was: What did you think of what Poggy said in post 30 I linked to.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
I'm always happy to provide a clear and concise defense. I am usually zealous. I like the game to move and I like to hunt scum. I see no reason to hide in the background when there is work to be done. Explaining that I looked up the terms is not supposed to make me look innocent by any means. It is merely a statement relating to the specific terms used on this forum and the fact that I don't know all of them yet. Audinho obviously DOES know the forum terms surprisingly well for someone who claims to be a newbie.
I will agree that discussing the cop and vigilante actions this early in the day is probably inappropriate, but I didn't bring it up myself. The first mention of what the cop and/or vigilante should do tonight came in post #62 from Artifice 101. I wanted to weight in on the subject as long as it was being discussed.
I cannot vote. Under penalty of mod kill.
I can help scum hunt, but I'm not going to be able to help lynch.
it seems this use of semantics is meant to make him look scummier not that he was inherently scummy. IE Reaching.
Yeah I think you're overreaching here. You're trying too hard to imply i'm scum without actually voting. Especially considering "mention people's names in his posts" refers to one post. If you see semantics as a legitimate way to analyze a person's behavior and alignment then let's use semantics on you shall we?
You say "more than willing to lynch" which means you're ready for the day to end. You want me dead based on three posts. I find it hard to believe that comes from a town perspective. It's not this "short days favor the mafia" because of lack of info, it's because why wouldn't you be paranoid that you're wrong with this little to go on?
You say unwillingness to mention people's names in his posts, like a petulant child and you're referring to one post. Not only does it make it sound like I'm guilty of some recurring event, but you're also threatening me. Not in a "I think you're scum so I'm going to get you lynched" kind of way but a "You better start putting names in your posts or else" kind of way. Not sure what the or else could mean since you think this info would only be useful after I'm lynched.
This last part is wifom but I'm going to say it none the less. If I was coaching scumbuddies and it was that obvious to you then all you'd have to do is look back at the posts to whom I was referring (easy enough since there's only two pages of posts at this point) and lynch them. But what good would it do for the town for you to mention this RIGHT NOW? It doesn't make sense. The only reason I can see for you to make that comment is to seem more town.
If you had said something like "he's trying to look like he's scum hunting" I could understand because then you'd be implying that I was making something up, but you don't even do that. If you want to have a semantics war you should ask Pinkys_Brain how fruitful that would be (excepting the fact that I'm a fruit)
I think you're scummier than Poggy I don't see exactly what makes poggy very likely scum? And explain how "I'm going to watch how it plays out" means I "want(s) the subject to just go away"? It means, I'm going to keep watching because I have no strong feelings one way or the other and if they do something scummy I'll vote.
unvote vote Artifice 101
one thing real quick, i am not a miller i am not seven of nine.
i was insanely (un)lucky in my joke claim it seems or art is pulling an interesting gambit. either way it seems important to nega- claim that
I think my points against Audinho stand and I would encourage others to vote for him.
What do you think of poggy?
Thanks for doing the work. I'm going to assume that you're town until proven otherwise. Here's me picking up the slack: I have a town read on Niv for this post:
That just screams townie to me.
Please tell me the exact order of pages you browsed to get to Seven of Nine. Check your browser history.
Well you usually are...
#1: Obviously. The matter discussed was, and you yourself brought this up: "Is it ok for mafia to trade one to one?". In this matter it is important to wear a scummy hat and think "What would I have thought about this were I scum". I like to try and think like scum to figure out what they are doing, and who's doing it. Would probably help a lot if I actually got to participate in killing scum someday.
#2: I am a newbie. You can check my sig for completed games. I bring up that I'm a newbie to use myself in the example for illustrative porposes. By newbie I mean that I'm not an experienced player and in my one completed scumgame I played terribly, hence I would not be that much of a valuable asset to a scumteam.
#3: Same reason as #1. To figure out how scum would have thought, you need to think like scum, no?
#4: It needed to be stated, since you thought flavourgaming would help us even after the Mod had stated it. I'm aware that you later pulled the statement back (before I posted), but I found it dodgy and important to note. As for the terminology: I know the terminology, but I also knew that before my very first game since I read up on it. Reading mafia games without knowing the abbrevations is a nightmare.
I was gonna ask "Why?" but Art allready covered that.
1: We were discussing if Art was pulling a scum gambit. Art beeing a valued member of town doesn't apply, since Art beeing town would make the discussion moot. FTR I believe strongly in Arts claim that he is town.
2: In your experience, what does scum normally do to avoid losing? Act like town, or pull crazy gambits? Proposing flavour speculation is scummy, yes, and that's why I commented on it. I didn't say scum are always successfull in acting town, then this game would have been very hard to play, wouldn't it?
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
What's the difference between a "joke" and a "gambit"?
As far as I can tell, your "joke" claim is just another word for "gambit." You were serious about catching scum with your joke. So why is your action excusable when Artifice's isn't?
so i found a star trek voyager wiki through google http://www.startrek.com/page/star-trek-voyager
i then looked through the character list and said to myself this guy:http://www.startrek.com/database_article/paris-tom looks interesting let's claim him err, what to claim for him NEXT
ooh i know ill claim the doctor and say im the doctor, err wait NO BAD POGGY BAD, dont implode the town day 1 for a joke/gambit
http://www.startrek.com/database_article/seven-of-nine<- she looks like a badguy maybe i wont claim her, err wait she looks like she did a bunch of good stuff, ill claim her!
what i totally forgot was that miller claims day 1 are actually totally acceptable moves and therefore there was a high chance id be taken seriously. if i claimed doc i probably wouldnt be taken as seriously but if someone pulled an artifice with doc everything would be screwed hard. it was basically a way to start convorsation without some derpy crap coming out of rvs.
@arnaria, i am saying that my fake claim was an insanely good call that i matched flavor with role with nothing but a cursory look through a wikipedia page. I was saying art could be pulling an insane gambit to counterclaim without actually being seven of nine, or by actually being a scum seven of nine(not sure if this is likely) or maybe this is one of scums false claims.
i never said art's action was inexcusable, why are you putting words in my mouth?
Dragonheart91 (1): blue
Audinho (2): Dragonheart91, pinkys_brain
poggydude (2): Niv; Artifice
Niv (2): Iso; poggydude
Not Voting (5): jdisawesomesauce; Seppel; Arnnaria; quietfish; Audinho
With 12 alive it is 7 to lynch
Corrections are welcome
jdisawesomesauce has been prodded and has 24hrs to respond or replacement will be sought
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