This is only the first half-ish of the game. I'm going to bed. I'll do the other half tomorrow, or Tuesday at the absolute latest if I don't feel like it after my math test tomorrow evening. Spoilered for clutter control.
I almost did, but the role choices I got are not exactly stellar.
Love the new avatar, fruity pebbles.
I think I agree with him, but I'm not sure if he's approaching it the way I am.
My bet is that out of three roles, the scum have at least one obviously scummy role to choose from that needs to be replaced with a more townie one and will have to lie about it. I think by pressing hard on the choices we can reveal more information than even from the choice the player made. It seems like it would be a really hard place to defend from as scum.
Also, there is (assuming 3 scum) the potential for 27 town roles we just chose from. The risk to flat replace a role with a townie one is very high, and I bet lies can be spotted in highly customized roles.
I started not liking Emo with this post. He soft-claims a weak PR, which is troublesome, and then goes onto speculate way too much.
As serious as any vote placed with weak behavioral tells can be, yes. I don't have anything else to work with, so the guy who (if I am correct) threatening to AZWOLG someone with no town consent gets the vote for now.
Shalako, if you daykill someone without the town's consent, I will do my utmost to see you lynched. Vigs who arbitrarily kill people are as bad as serial killers.
Shalako has been playing this way the last two games I was in with him.
Do we consider pondering mafia dasychat scummy? How about wondering if they could coordinate their role choices?
@All Without naming the parameters and without you suggesting any, would you want a soft claim of some sort?
I say yes.
After I've read this game for the second time, I'm moving Infinis up my scum list. I had him as middle of the road before, but this and some of his more recent posts are reading scummier to me now. Like, really? "Is discussing something scummy?" Who asks that? Scum ask that.
* Wuffles_II throws a suspicious glance at Infinis
What sort of soft claim?
1) Choices given
2) Name
3) Crypto - (apparently these have been judged against the spirit of the game now, thank the lord council almighty :p)
4) Something else?
If it is option 1 or 2 though, I am cautiously optimistic about this.
Cautiously optimistic for us to reveal two pieces of information that tell scum a lot about our role?
I will be seriously trying to policy lynch you today, because there is not a single bit of townie in the possible motivations behind azwolging someone like that. At best, you're a horrible player.
Good work giving the mafia a free -1 to LOL.
Even if he is mafia, you still fail at this game.
If you're trolling, it is working.
So, you know that pinkfloyd (me) is town. And possibly Shalako too. Which means you're scum.
Because I'm taking Wuffles out First Post of Day 2 obviously.
I'd rather lynch him today. As for you, I think you're most likely town if you can shoot again, but you really need to use it as a second lynch and not blow it because someone doesn't appease your every request.
In a *mini* sir, there are twelve players. Also, the town likely has a high percentage of power roles ALSO, so your second point is moot.
How normal games go:
Assuming there is one scum nightkill and one lynch per day, the town can do the following and NOT lose the game.
Day 1: Mislynch, 11 players, 3 scum.
Night: Nightkill town, 10 players, 3 scum.
Day 2: Mislynch, 9 players, 3 scum
Night: NK town, 8 players, 3 scum.
Day 3: Mislynch, 8 players, 3 scum.
Night: NK, 7 players, 3 scum.
Day 4: Lylo.
While if a random, arbitrary nightkill like Shalako has done occurs, then:
Day 1: Mislynch, daykill, 10 players, 75% chance of 3 scum left.
Night: DK, 9 players left, 3 scum.
Day 2: Mislynch, daykill, 8 players left, 66% chance of 3 scum left.
Night: DK, 7 players left, 3 scum.
Day 3: Lylo, daykill, STILL less than 50% chance of hitting scum.
Scum wins day 3.
Shalako's play will mean unless we are at the top of our game, that we are losing an entire night and day period. So unless he is killing with legitimate reason, there is simply no statistical reason for letting him live.
Plus, the way he's acted today tells me he's not going to apply any kind of objective or relevant criteria to who he takes out.
He's as bad as a serial killer if he's town, and if he's scum or actually *is* a serial killer, then that's even worse for the town. If he keeps choosing his targets for himself, then he will likely lose the game for us.
Those statistics are so misleading. I'll give you that you're bad at math, but it's still scummy. And you clearly have implied here and elsewhere that you think he's town, even if you do include the "if he's scum" copout.
Infi, your "general interest" in soft claim from me was a NO.
I then went on to say "hoooowever, if it is 1) or 2) then a cautious yes."
also, can everyone please from now on assume that no matter what I say, my opinion on Shalako is "his actions make no sense whatsoever on a townie, so he's mafia or SK, as otherwise he is very very bad at this game, and no matter what, unless he lets the town control his ability, he is effectively an SK anyways, so he must die".
I noticed after that my last post was not quite definitive enough in explaining.
I believe he is scum with a powerfully-chosen ability, because if he's town, he's not playing like one. Therefore, he is scum.
re: softclaim: What else could we softclaim? You're saying NO WE SHOULDN'T SOFTCLAIM but if we're going to softclaim either of the two only possibilities (which both happen to give the scum information as to our roles), then it's fine. What?
re: Shalako: here you say he's scum, flat out
Okay, so I got 51% in 5th form maths. Stats is not my strong suit but if Shalako keeps playing that way, we're still more likely than not to lose.
Fearmongering. There's a disconnect between your saying that he's scum and all of these implications that he's town. If he's scum, then the daykill has been balanced and we're not more likely than not to lose because of it (assuming that Tanmod is worth a ****, which he is). We're only more likely than not to lose if he's an AWOLZGLHSDFLHing (whatever) town vig.
[URL="http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=7890245&postcount=23"][URL="http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=7892109&postcount=30"]Re Emo[/URL]: This is such a townie view point. I really don't like Arch's posts regarding this.
I'll agree that Arch's posts aren't amazing (they're not superbad either though), but I disagree that Emo's is a townie view point. For example, each scum could have had three choices. I find that just as likely if not more likely than that he's town who missed Tan's thing about how people can have different numbers of posts. I'll admit that this may be confirmation bias (I think I'm using that correctly) though.
oookay, after having read the rest of the posts since I went to sleep now
I have had a lot of time to think on this and despite, DESPITE, DESPITE Shalako's terrible play here, he probably is town.
I let my sheer gigantic throbbing...frustration rule me yesterday, and it clouded my read on shalako to an unacceptable extent. There is no better way to make me rage in mafia than a vig that can't keep it in his pants.
However, I am still really curious as to why Shalako's not bringing any hate down from any other players?
He never even provided any reasoning as to why he tried to murder PF.
Even if you don't think it was a scum play, at very least, it WAS terrible. Shalako should have saved the kill for a more appropriate time, and he should have let us use him as a second lynch.
If he keeps this up, and kills me tomorrow, that's fine, it at least confirms him as town or SK. Because no mod is stupid enough to give a mafioso multiple daykills.
Although I do remember a game where the mafia could EITHER daykill OR nightkill, so I will be seriously looking at Shalako come Day 2 if there was no nightkill, and I think you all should too.
Aside from that, though, I'm willing to let Shalako go for now, not because he's not terrible, but because he's probably not mafia. Nobody is ever going to convince me that azwolging vigs should be allowed to roam free though. I've lost two games at least where the townie vig took out multiple power roles and the mafia just ran rampant.
While I agree with your call here, I don't buy that you slept on it and reread and now think he's town. I think you've known he was town this whole time and had to adopt the he's scum PoV to explain your wanting to lynch him, and now you're trying to backtrack.
@ TFF - I see no harm in telling our names - it seals the mafia into any false claims which can be exploited by the town. How could something like that hurt the town? o.O?
QUIT SAYING YOU'RE AGAINST A SOFT CLAIM AND THEN SAYING KINDS OF SOFT CLAIMS YOU'RE OK WITH ARGLSDILHGSHL
I was obviously not joking about Daykilling him and the fact that he allowed me to shoot him instead of using it as a 2nd lynch(as I was planning to Cite: Next quoted post) was a waste of my power for today.
What? If you were planning on using it as a second lynch if he did claim, then what you did was straight-up fishing. Sure, if he claimed bulletproof, you probably wouldn't have tried to shoot him. But you didn't know he was going to be bulletproof when you asked him to claim. So you never had an intention of using it as a 2nd lynch.
NO YOU LITTLE SMUG EXPLICATIVE, I AM NOT SCUM AND I AM NOT GIVING UP, IT IS JUST INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING TO ME THAT AE WALTZES IN HERE WITH A CASE THAT IS SHALAKO LEVELS OF TERRIBLE AND NOT ONE BUT TWO PEOPLE HAVE EXPRESSED THAT THEY AGREE WITH IT. ARE YOU SO BLIND THAT YOU CAN NOT SEE THAT HIS CASE IS NOTHING BUT "THIS IS TOTALLY WHY SIR MU DID THIS, P.S. HE'S SCUM". HOLY -HELL- I CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT, IF YOU AND INFINIS ARE TOWN, YOU BOTH HAD A GUT READ OF SCUM ON ME FOR SOME GOD-AWFUL NON REASON AND ARE JUST USING AE'S CASE TO JUSTIFY IT TO YOURSELVES.
I really wish it was possible for me to express my anger without using allcaps and pseudo-swears.
I also agreed with the case at this point. You are either bad flailing town or scum, but since you're an un-CC'd Cop, you're probably bad flailing town.
EWP: Oh. I know what you're talking about. Sir Mu refused to claim in the mass claim, not when at L-2 in that game; and he explicitly was willing to claim if a majority requested that he do so. I was talking about refusal to claim as a lynch suspect, not in the context of mass claims.
Are you intentionally ignoring a fairly long history of people not claiming for one reason or another? You're acting like no townie has never not claimed, and if I was Sir Mu I probably wouldn't claim then either.
I mean, you ran in and put him to L-1 only to say no townie would refuse to claim and you never saw Sir Mu not claim despite Sir Mu not claiming. Does "I've never seen Sir Mu not claim at L-2 hold water to you? It shouldn't.
Hyperbole much? I didn't say "no townie has ever not claimed". I said a townie not claiming when under the lynch gun is a pointless waste. You seem to be trying for an all-or-nothing defense - that just because some townies have done X, X can't be scummy. But that's silly; this is not a game of 100% probabilities.
I think that Emo looks scummy as hell through this exchange. Sir Mu's not claiming in Hetalia is very different from his not claiming here.
Told you so. Let's move on to the obviously scummy people from his wagon.You are correct, I misread how much importance you put on that and your slipping memory already had my hackles raised.
I find the "told you so" here to be very... scummy.
BTW, wuffles, the correct answer was, "I'm upset at Mu for acting so scummy that he was forced to claim, outing our cop D1." Your answer of, "I'm upset his role prevented a mislynch," isn't really a townie motivation for anger here.
WwaB has done nothing today. Wants to lynch PF based on role. Has said nothing about PF in game. Has a town read on Infinis and toastboy. Really?
With so little posts you get a town read on them? Maybe its legit, maybe those posts are content full and take stances on the days top discussions. I will have to look into that also. I feel Wolf is trying to stay under the radar.
Agreed.
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Ahah, no. Especially not since you're [Archonoid] practically begging for it.
You're saying what?
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I'll agree that Arch's posts aren't amazing (they're not superbad either though), but I disagree that Emo's is a townie view point. For example, each scum could have had three choices. I find that just as likely if not more likely than that he's town who missed Tan's thing about how people can have different numbers of posts. I'll admit that this may be confirmation bias (I think I'm using that correctly) though.
I think it's the attitude he has regarding this more so than the conclusion he reached. -If EP is scum, and they all had 3 choices, I think he'd be a little more cautious with revealing that info. Although, even in that scenario, I don't think EP would jump to the conclusion that 3 choices for the scum means 3 choices for everyone, since scum and town often get different things.
As for wuffles, his stance regarding a soft-claim makes perfect sense now that he has claimed his choices/role. -Had you read his claim at the time of this post?
How is that a terrible use of fishing? Shalako flat out told PF to claim or die? What is that if not fishing?
Well there's two things here:
If anyone ever uses fishing on its own in an accusation, it's a terrible use of fishing.
Shalako was not fishing. Shalako acted as a king, and brought pf to a pseudo-L-2 by his ability. He then shot when a claim was refused. That's not fishing, that's just unilaterally acting like the town.
I love how you refrain from saying whether he's town or scum.
I'm really getting tired of this horse****. Townies should be highly critical of bad cases, and that has everything to do with logic and reason and nothing to do with thinking that person is town.
You want to know how to lose a game quickly? Assuming every case against someone you think is town is bad and think every case against someone you think is scum is good. I didn't have much of an opinion about Sir Mu other than the case against him was terrible, which is why I pointed out that the case is terrible and the wagoning that went on was worse. That is the way it should be.
I think that Emo looks scummy as hell through this exchange. Sir Mu's not claiming in Hetalia is very different from his not claiming here.
How? As in, how am I looking scummy here? How is it different than Hetalia?
All players in that mass claim were under the threat of being lynched for not claiming, and Shalako was run up (not to L-2 I believe, but run up none the less) when he didn't claim. And he was attacked for not claiming and then stood his ground.
Also, you did not post the full exchange here. I said I misread archonoid's post and thought he said "no townie wouldn't claim" not "no townie wouldn't claim at L-2".
EBWOP: Zaj's post at least seems to line up with his scum list, but with him referencing his scum list in is re-reread I don't think it's too significant.
I'm not sure how he determined his "leaning town" pile based on what he's posted, and I'm really not sure how AE ended up leaning scum when he's only agreed with him.
I want you to elaborate on why you voted him for it.
What are you thinking?
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I think this is as clear as I can be without giving scum too much info:
There is a specific mechanical reason why it is more valuable for you to cop me than anyone else.
Further, upon copping me, this reason should become self-evident to you in a way that should rule out any standard scum shenanigans (godfathers, millers, what-have-you.) I am double checking this point right now with the mod.
I think this is as clear as I can be without giving scum too much info:
There is a specific mechanical reason why it is more valuable for you to cop me than anyone else.
Further, upon copping me, this reason should become self-evident to you in a way that should rule out any standard scum shenanigans (godfathers, millers, what-have-you.) I am double checking this point right now with the mod.
I cannot think of any particular reason why I would agree to something like this. To be specific, I cannot see any possible way that I would both get some mechanical benefit and also magically rule out scum shenanigans. That and I prefer to not let my target be known in advance.
That and apparently you've never heard of a Godfather asking to be copped to "prove his innocence".
I cannot think of any particular reason why I would agree to something like this. To be specific, I cannot see any possible way that I would both get some mechanical benefit and also magically rule out scum shenanigans.
You can't think of a mod response to your PM that would allow you to rule out scum shenanigans?
As I said, I'm double checking with the mod right now to be absolutely certain, but I believe that you will receive such a response.
That and I prefer to not let my target be known in advance.
I understand that desire. I certainly can't force you to target me, but I believe this is the best course of action. I was going to remain silent, but it appears that I am in danger of being lynched, which would waste my role.
And no, I cannot full claim. Doing so would likely be worse for us than wasting me in a lynch. I chose a high-risk high-reward role with unusual properties.
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"
Two things:
1. This is tu quoque.
2. I have actually provided content. At my time of posting, Zajnet had not. If you're complaining about the infrequency of my posts, I can only remind you that we've played together maybe 10-15 times. Ask yourself if this is something out of the ordinary.
"So PF/Zaj voters, I want to put this scenario in perspective. The guy with the (unlimited) dayvig, decides to shoot day 1 early, and then shoots the guy who is bulletproof. Which by Occam's razor do you think is valid?
Scum Collusion
The luckiest town player and unluckiest scum ever
trigger happy #@$! meets clowning $%#!
Why does luck have to come into it? Maybe Shalako randomly chose PF; maybe he had a gut feeling, and either way PF's responses absolutely did not inspire confidence.
Sir Mu claimed to have three choices for his role. What I'm wondering is what would happen toy our role with no cop?
My role does not require a cop to exist. A cop happens to be really good for it.
I received a response from the mod. Unfortunately, I misunderstood a certain clause. Cyouni would not receive guarantees of the kind I envisioned. My role continues to be the optimal investigation target, but is not quite as good as I thought.
That and apparently you've never heard of a Godfather asking to be copped to "prove his innocence".
I have, but I wanted you to say it. If you're going to accuse him of it, accuse him.
I cannot think of any particular reason why I would agree to something like this. To be specific, I cannot see any possible way that I would both get some mechanical benefit and also magically rule out scum shenanigans. That and I prefer to not let my target be known in advance.
I understand that desire. I certainly can't force you to target me, but I believe this is the best course of action. I was going to remain silent, but it appears that I am in danger of being lynched, which would waste my role.
And no, I cannot full claim. Doing so would likely be worse for us than wasting me in a lynch. I chose a high-risk high-reward role with unusual properties.
I'm in a "take things at face value" mood this game, in case you couldn't tell. Lets lynch someone behaving scummily and work it out from there.
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How in the hell are people voting Arch using the logic that he is a godfather trying to attract a cop when according to them PinkFloyd is the Bulletproof Godfather?
Two things:
1. This is tu quoque.
2. I have actually provided content. At my time of posting, Zajnet had not. If you're complaining about the infrequency of my posts, I can only remind you that we've played together maybe 10-15 times. Ask yourself if this is something out of the ordinary.
Was I wrong?
The entire tone of this was really defensive and off-putting.
[/LIST]Why does luck have to come into it? Maybe Shalako randomly chose PF; maybe he had a gut feeling, and either way PF's responses absolutely did not inspire confidence.
1. We've played a ton of games, I don't post near the top ever. (one exception is when I created Shamandering™ )
2. After what happened, there is no way that Shalako had a read on PF as scum. I read it as a joke even upon re-read. You have to read in hindsight to see it wasn't a joke. I play conservative so I would have said something but for the two involved the results were destined.
3. Trying to lynch the bulletproof is ridiculous. He's exposed. We can wait a day to lynch him.
[B]Unvote.[/B]
[B]@Toastboy[/B] Did you look up the game or are you trusting his memory?
List tags are malformed.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
How in the hell are people voting Arch using the logic that he is a godfather trying to attract a cop when according to them PinkFloyd is the Bulletproof Godfather?
@Toastboy Did you look up the game or are you trusting his memory?
Who "his" refering to? Less pronouns makes me happy.
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How in the hell are people voting Arch using the logic that he is a godfather trying to attract a cop when according to them PinkFloyd is the Bulletproof Godfather?
So PF/Zaj voters, I want to put this scenario in perspective. The guy with the (unlimited) dayvig, decides to shoot day 1 early, and then shoots the guy who is bulletproof. Which by Occam's razor do you think is valid?
Scum Collusion
The luckiest town player and unluckiest scum ever
trigger happy #@$! meets clowning $%#!
Assuming #2 is saying "Shalako scum, pinkfloyd town", why is there no option for the reverse? That seems a little odd, given your other statements.
---
I've got other statements I want to talk about, but I want to see responses to them first.
Anyone with half a brain could tell. You're just trying to nitpick.
Yep. I want you to be clear. Beating around the bush is scummy.
And I'm still waiting for your long-promised PBPA on Wuffles.
He's got some 120 posts. You want to do one? Pardon my lack of enthusiasm at the prospect.
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I think this is as clear as I can be without giving scum too much info:
There is a specific mechanical reason why it is more valuable for you to cop me than anyone else.
Do you have a simple rolename like cyouni or something more flavored like wuffles? -If the latter, do you think you could claim it without it being obvious what you are? -If so, then please do so.
I am very obviously driving to a point, so it's not really fishing.
On top of that, fishing is one of the biggest horse**** buzzwords used on this site. It's thrown around with no analysis trying to show why this person is scum, ever. It's done by lazy players who want to appear to be scum hunting and newbies who learn bad habits from lazy players who want to appear to be scum hunting. In fact, fishing as a scum tell is frequently pushed by scum because it's easily latched onto and has no actual value while giving the appearance of scum hunting. No one should be letting an unclaimed role gambit mindlessly, and archonoid's role has some bizarre red flags that since have been diminished.
Yep. I want you to be clear. Beating around the bush is scummy.
Like I said, anyone with half a brain. Trying to argue it's beating around the bush is so nitpicky, it seems more like you're trying to stall to the deadline. Especially since you decided to only post that.
Do you have a simple rolename like cyouni or something more flavored like wuffles? -If the latter, do you think you could claim it without it being obvious what you are? -If so, then please do so.
My rolename would reveal or at least be a strong hint at my mechanics.
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So whats up? Infinis was just in here, neglected to say why he unvoted. I also don't like how Zindabad has not helped out much and now the deadline looms. His last two posts don't show him scumhunting one bit.
Cy: It's not a strawman. It's the type of twisted logic that has ran amuck this game. It's at best terrible reasoning.
Nobody reconsidered PF while attacking Arch with Godfather fearmongering. They don't really think that Arch is a godfather. It's blatent.
1. I'm amused that you, of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
2. It's a strawman because you're pretending that Arch attempting to get me to Cop him is everything that makes him scummy.
3. I'd also prefer not to voice an opinion on pinkfloyd's gameplay in general.
So whats up? Infinis was just in here, neglected to say why he unvoted. I also don't like how Zindabad has not helped out much and now the deadline looms. His last two posts don't show him scumhunting one bit.
You guys got me. Why oh why would I have voted and then unvoted? Hmm, Archonoid's my scum buddy! My play is epic, I can't believe it took this long for me to be caught
@toastboy No read it again, Lucky Town Shalako shot and exposed unlucky bullet proof godfather PF.
Ah, Vote: Emo_Pinata found the misreping and weak case against me. Also came off really bad against Artifice.
I gave the scum a chance to get my lynch done, sad couldn't must up the votes over the weekend (especially with so many of you hinting about my lynch)
Finally, I will lend credence to the GF theory if we don't get anything from Zajnet.
Therefore: E_P, Archonoid, Zajnet, and Zinda. (Zinda is not remembering Grim Batol very well. I won as TOWN/Neutral)
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
If Shalako has as many shots as he wants, would it be better to replace the lynch with his daykill unless he hits scum?
That way we can get the reveal immediately, discuss it a bit, and then go to night knowing we're not mislynching. It would be a way to use our lynch to our full advantage and not rush the game forward when we are so divided. We would get the full benefit of a daykill without the drawback.
Obviously, we can't do this today since it was blown so early but it could save a lot of heartache tomorrow. I also doubt Shalako is just going to shoot randomly into the crowd again.
Why didn't you?
I don't know what to think about this. Is he feigning ignorance? Scum typically (read: always) get to see each others' role PMs...
I started not liking Emo with this post. He soft-claims a weak PR, which is troublesome, and then goes onto speculate way too much.
Excuse me?
Why haven't you followed through on this?
After I've read this game for the second time, I'm moving Infinis up my scum list. I had him as middle of the road before, but this and some of his more recent posts are reading scummier to me now. Like, really? "Is discussing something scummy?" Who asks that? Scum ask that.
Cautiously optimistic for us to reveal two pieces of information that tell scum a lot about our role?
So, you know that pinkfloyd (me) is town. And possibly Shalako too. Which means you're scum.
Wasn't he mafia in that game? So you're saying that you want to lynch town?
I'd rather lynch him today. As for you, I think you're most likely town if you can shoot again, but you really need to use it as a second lynch and not blow it because someone doesn't appease your every request.
Those statistics are so misleading. I'll give you that you're bad at math, but it's still scummy. And you clearly have implied here and elsewhere that you think he's town, even if you do include the "if he's scum" copout.
re: softclaim: What else could we softclaim? You're saying NO WE SHOULDN'T SOFTCLAIM but if we're going to softclaim either of the two only possibilities (which both happen to give the scum information as to our roles), then it's fine. What?
re: Shalako: here you say he's scum, flat out
Fearmongering. There's a disconnect between your saying that he's scum and all of these implications that he's town. If he's scum, then the daykill has been balanced and we're not more likely than not to lose because of it (assuming that Tanmod is worth a ****, which he is). We're only more likely than not to lose if he's an AWOLZGLHSDFLHing (whatever) town vig.
I lol'd.
I'll agree that Arch's posts aren't amazing (they're not superbad either though), but I disagree that Emo's is a townie view point. For example, each scum could have had three choices. I find that just as likely if not more likely than that he's town who missed Tan's thing about how people can have different numbers of posts. I'll admit that this may be confirmation bias (I think I'm using that correctly) though.
How is that a terrible use of fishing? Shalako flat out told PF to claim or die? What is that if not fishing?
While I agree with your call here, I don't buy that you slept on it and reread and now think he's town. I think you've known he was town this whole time and had to adopt the he's scum PoV to explain your wanting to lynch him, and now you're trying to backtrack.
QUIT SAYING YOU'RE AGAINST A SOFT CLAIM AND THEN SAYING KINDS OF SOFT CLAIMS YOU'RE OK WITH ARGLSDILHGSHL
What? If you were planning on using it as a second lynch if he did claim, then what you did was straight-up fishing. Sure, if he claimed bulletproof, you probably wouldn't have tried to shoot him. But you didn't know he was going to be bulletproof when you asked him to claim. So you never had an intention of using it as a 2nd lynch.
That's the only thing you want to comment on?
I also agreed with the case at this point. You are either bad flailing town or scum, but since you're an un-CC'd Cop, you're probably bad flailing town.
I love how you refrain from saying whether he's town or scum.
I think that Emo looks scummy as hell through this exchange. Sir Mu's not claiming in Hetalia is very different from his not claiming here.
Actually, it could be, because magnetic north is not located at the north pole.
I find the "told you so" here to be very... scummy.
Quoted for freaking truth.
Agreed.
EDH:
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Non-Staff Quasi-ModJohnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
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Non-Staff Quasi-ModI fail to see how that's hard to read.
I think it's the attitude he has regarding this more so than the conclusion he reached. -If EP is scum, and they all had 3 choices, I think he'd be a little more cautious with revealing that info. Although, even in that scenario, I don't think EP would jump to the conclusion that 3 choices for the scum means 3 choices for everyone, since scum and town often get different things.
As for wuffles, his stance regarding a soft-claim makes perfect sense now that he has claimed his choices/role. -Had you read his claim at the time of this post?
Well there's two things here:
- If anyone ever uses fishing on its own in an accusation, it's a terrible use of fishing.
- Shalako was not fishing. Shalako acted as a king, and brought pf to a pseudo-L-2 by his ability. He then shot when a claim was refused. That's not fishing, that's just unilaterally acting like the town.
Yes, because when Sir Mu responded to my points about Shalako in post #169 I responded to him in post #176.Thank you for randomly attacking me for (what I'm assuming here) not giving an opinion on Shalako after I gave a post with opinions about Shalako.
I'm really getting tired of this horse****. Townies should be highly critical of bad cases, and that has everything to do with logic and reason and nothing to do with thinking that person is town.
You want to know how to lose a game quickly? Assuming every case against someone you think is town is bad and think every case against someone you think is scum is good. I didn't have much of an opinion about Sir Mu other than the case against him was terrible, which is why I pointed out that the case is terrible and the wagoning that went on was worse. That is the way it should be.
How? As in, how am I looking scummy here? How is it different than Hetalia?
All players in that mass claim were under the threat of being lynched for not claiming, and Shalako was run up (not to L-2 I believe, but run up none the less) when he didn't claim. And he was attacked for not claiming and then stood his ground.
Also, you did not post the full exchange here. I said I misread archonoid's post and thought he said "no townie wouldn't claim" not "no townie wouldn't claim at L-2".
How?
I'm not sure how he determined his "leaning town" pile based on what he's posted, and I'm really not sure how AE ended up leaning scum when he's only agreed with him.
No.
I want you to elaborate on why you voted him for it.
What are you thinking?
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
I think this is as clear as I can be without giving scum too much info:
There is a specific mechanical reason why it is more valuable for you to cop me than anyone else.
Further, upon copping me, this reason should become self-evident to you in a way that should rule out any standard scum shenanigans (godfathers, millers, what-have-you.) I am double checking this point right now with the mod.
Is that even possible in a game like this? To need a cop?
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Non-Staff Quasi-ModThat and apparently you've never heard of a Godfather asking to be copped to "prove his innocence".
I cannot think of any particular reason why I would agree to something like this. To be specific, I cannot see any possible way that I would both get some mechanical benefit and also magically rule out scum shenanigans. That and I prefer to not let my target be known in advance.
As I said, I'm double checking with the mod right now to be absolutely certain, but I believe that you will receive such a response.
I understand that desire. I certainly can't force you to target me, but I believe this is the best course of action. I was going to remain silent, but it appears that I am in danger of being lynched, which would waste my role.
And no, I cannot full claim. Doing so would likely be worse for us than wasting me in a lynch. I chose a high-risk high-reward role with unusual properties.
Emo, meanwhile, is fishing.
Does your role interact with the cop specifically?
My role interacts with the cop favorably. This is not explicit in my role, but is a natural consequence.
Two things:
1. This is tu quoque.
2. I have actually provided content. At my time of posting, Zajnet had not. If you're complaining about the infrequency of my posts, I can only remind you that we've played together maybe 10-15 times. Ask yourself if this is something out of the ordinary.
Was I wrong?
The entire tone of this was really defensive and off-putting.
Why does luck have to come into it? Maybe Shalako randomly chose PF; maybe he had a gut feeling, and either way PF's responses absolutely did not inspire confidence.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Then the game would be different. What specific information are you looking for with this question?
Archonoid
They hate us cause they ain't us.
My role does not require a cop to exist. A cop happens to be really good for it.
I received a response from the mod. Unfortunately, I misunderstood a certain clause. Cyouni would not receive guarantees of the kind I envisioned. My role continues to be the optimal investigation target, but is not quite as good as I thought.
I have, but I wanted you to say it. If you're going to accuse him of it, accuse him.
Seems fine.
Yep.
I'm in a "take things at face value" mood this game, in case you couldn't tell. Lets lynch someone behaving scummily and work it out from there.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
+every single thing Wuffles has done this game.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
You guys aren't even trying to use your brains.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
They hate us cause they ain't us.
1. We've played a ton of games, I don't post near the top ever. (one exception is when I created Shamandering™ )
2. After what happened, there is no way that Shalako had a read on PF as scum. I read it as a joke even upon re-read. You have to read in hindsight to see it wasn't a joke. I play conservative so I would have said something but for the two involved the results were destined.
3. Trying to lynch the bulletproof is ridiculous. He's exposed. We can wait a day to lynch him.
[B]Unvote.[/B]
[B]@Toastboy[/B] Did you look up the game or are you trusting his memory?
List tags are malformed.
12-11? I'm losing track
Are you denying it or not?
Who "his" refering to? Less pronouns makes me happy.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
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Non-Staff Quasi-ModAnyone with half a brain could tell. You're just trying to nitpick.
Funny story: you only "take things at face value" when it suits you.
And I'm still waiting for your long-promised PBPA on Wuffles.
Assuming #2 is saying "Shalako scum, pinkfloyd town", why is there no option for the reverse? That seems a little odd, given your other statements.
---
I've got other statements I want to talk about, but I want to see responses to them first.
After I eat their old one.
Seriously, are you guys new? YOU DO NOT DIRECT THE COP. The cop targets whoever he wants, because it's useful no matter what.
Or am I just old? Is this what happens, day 1, in mini games these days?
I would obviously like to see ZajFloyd hang today. But I am prepared to consider other options if my vote is needed to avoid a nolynch.
He's got some 120 posts. You want to do one? Pardon my lack of enthusiasm at the prospect.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Do you have a simple rolename like cyouni or something more flavored like wuffles? -If the latter, do you think you could claim it without it being obvious what you are? -If so, then please do so.
But wuffles is town. -Let's try to lynch scum instead.
On top of that, fishing is one of the biggest horse**** buzzwords used on this site. It's thrown around with no analysis trying to show why this person is scum, ever. It's done by lazy players who want to appear to be scum hunting and newbies who learn bad habits from lazy players who want to appear to be scum hunting. In fact, fishing as a scum tell is frequently pushed by scum because it's easily latched onto and has no actual value while giving the appearance of scum hunting. No one should be letting an unclaimed role gambit mindlessly, and archonoid's role has some bizarre red flags that since have been diminished.
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Non-Staff Quasi-ModBut you're the one arguing he's scum.
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Non-Staff Quasi-ModInfinis, why'd you unvote Archonoid?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
The deadline is in three real life days folks.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
They hate us cause they ain't us.
You know who was for a Name-claim then against it then had no opinion on it?
We should lynch him.
Also:
Tar Baby obviously.
Emo's "What if the Cop wasn't the Cop Hurr" line of questioning sums up my feelings about him.
TFF:
Hell no.
You don't just get to go "Wuffles is town".
You haveprovided no REASONING WHY WUFFLES IS TOWN.
Nobody HAS.
Infinis Unvoted him to "ponder" about him and then Voted Arch without ever talking about him again.
Then there was the WIFOM ****fest that was people unvoting because he claimed Roleblocker
You Need to give me reasons WHY wuffles is town.
NOBODY HAS SHOWN WITH HIS POSTS ANY SORT OF TOWN POSTING BY WUFFLES.
Cy: It's not a strawman. It's the type of twisted logic that has ran amuck this game. It's at best terrible reasoning.
Nobody reconsidered PF while attacking Arch with Godfather fearmongering. They don't really think that Arch is a godfather. It's blatent.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
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Non-Staff Quasi-Mod2. It's a strawman because you're pretending that Arch attempting to get me to Cop him is everything that makes him scummy.
3. I'd also prefer not to voice an opinion on pinkfloyd's gameplay in general.
Placeholder vote as I said, but was it...
Definitively scummy, speaking of which...
You guys got me. Why oh why would I have voted and then unvoted? Hmm, Archonoid's my scum buddy! My play is epic, I can't believe it took this long for me to be caught
@toastboy No read it again, Lucky Town Shalako shot and exposed unlucky bullet proof godfather PF.
Ah, Vote: Emo_Pinata found the misreping and weak case against me. Also came off really bad against Artifice.
I gave the scum a chance to get my lynch done, sad couldn't must up the votes over the weekend (especially with so many of you hinting about my lynch)
Finally, I will lend credence to the GF theory if we don't get anything from Zajnet.
Therefore: E_P, Archonoid, Zajnet, and Zinda. (Zinda is not remembering Grim Batol very well. I won as TOWN/Neutral)
12-11? I'm losing track
What is this?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Wuffles_II (3) - Shalako, Zajnet, Artifice 101,
Zajnet (4) - TheFooFish, Wuffles_II, Archonoid, Emo_Pinata
Infinis (1) - Toastboy
Archonoid (2) - Archmage_Eternal, Cyouni
Emo_Pinata (1) - Infinis
Not Voting (1) - zindabad
The choice of the many will outweigh the choice of the few. It takes 7 similar choices to lynch.
Deadline is 3 days from now. Failure to reach a majority will result in a NO LYNCH!
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I bet there are scum on my wagon. (+1 Shalako)
That way we can get the reveal immediately, discuss it a bit, and then go to night knowing we're not mislynching. It would be a way to use our lynch to our full advantage and not rush the game forward when we are so divided. We would get the full benefit of a daykill without the drawback.
Obviously, we can't do this today since it was blown so early but it could save a lot of heartache tomorrow. I also doubt Shalako is just going to shoot randomly into the crowd again.
Yes, we should definitely use Shalako as a second lynch (if we can get him to go along with it).