As for Seppel stripping Iso of a shot, that's how I've always done roleblocking with shot abilities and it makes sense: you go to fire a shot and you miss. I even stack it like he does. Granted I'm not culturally MTGSian in my thinking but it doesn't seem unusual at all to lose a shot that way.
Except it's not a shot per se, and with the order of night actions he follows in all his game, the roleblock should go through before a doctor is even able to attempt to protect. Absolutely explainable for him to not lose his shot.
I mean, I can see it the other way, too, so I want to know Seppel's rationale. I think it will help Iso to understand and calm down.
Yeah, in the end that is my biggest complaint, the fact you rushed to the NL so fast. IN all reality, in order for a claim to go UNcced you should wait at least 48 hours or until everyone has posted, whichever happens first (Ideally stretching towards the latter.) If I was not modkilled, I would have at least said as much once the NLs started flying.
It's hard for me to say what I would have exactly done if it was four to lynch instead of three. I think I would probably found the rush to no lynch alarming, unvoted and encouraged more discussion since that's my usual go to ideology (see SC mafia).
Quote from Seppel »
Refusing to answer would have given him an answer.
I did not intend to put you in a bad situation by the way, I wasn't trying to game you for more inappropriate info - I thought my query was legitimate.
Quote from Manders »
Except it's not a shot per se, and with the order of night actions he follows in all his game, the roleblock should go through before a doctor is even able to attempt to protect. Absolutely explainable for him to not lose his shot.
I can kind of understand the "actual events logic" behind this but mechanically and from a gameplay standpoint it seems to be wonky for you to use a limited ability and keep it even though you were played around and it failed. You could also argue it makes very little sense how doctors would hang around before kills and everything. It's really one of those "personal interpetations of the mod" things that tend to be swayed by common cultural opinions.
Also, thank you to Seppel, my lover and friend, for re-hosting this game. And Kpaca as well for designing it/persuading me to play in it.
RE Lost Shot: I have only ever seen it the way Seppel has done it. The option to use a shot is a choice. After that it should resolve as normal. If you get blocked or it somehow fails, oh well. It's a risk you take when you use a shotted ability.
As for the 50% thing, again I have seen it done before, primarily on Xylbot and Mafiascum. It is actually not that uncommon of an occurrence. It SHOULD be stated though in the rules if you plan on using the method.
Well, I came in here to ask Seppel questions about why he made the decisions he made. Iso's doing the same thing. No one asked for your input, so don't get upset and say, "I'm not having this conversation with you in this thread."
What right do you have to grill Seppel when he went out of his way to do the game a favor? If replacement hosts can expect to see this kind of treatment in the future, we might as well cancel any game where the host becomes suddenly unavailable.
I am giving Seppel the benefit of the doubt and trust that he was not being biased in any of his decision-making, and I would hope that you would too. If you can't understand that, then I can't help you.
Seriously, this is a conversation that should take place in the game thread. What was your purpose behind telling Iso to take it to PMs?
Iso wasn't even typing in complete sentences. I wasn't going to talk to him under those circumstances, and I didn't want him to continue talking to anyone like that in a public manner.
You're all excellent, thanks for playing with me. Especially Iso, who I hope to fight with constantly in games.
You made this game much more interesting to play, and I'm glad to get a chance to actually play with you (as opposed to my non-existence in Powerful Wizards). If there are any more like you where you're from, tell them that they're all welcome here.
I haven't played on MS in a long time but I haven't seen it there before. I've played in quite a lot of places and this is the first time I've ever seen it. I'm not upset about the No Lynch but I think that rule would be in effect in less than 5% of games hosted.
PK: I believe it was used a lot more before the Board upgrade. I know it has fallen out of favor of late, but I don't play there that often unless one of my friends on #mafia need a replacement or are hosting a game.
EBWODP: For example, I wanna say speed dating mafia on the old boards used the 50% NL mechanic. Gonna have to either ask pinkys brain (As I was in that game with her) or just get unlazy and look it up.
RE Lost Shot: I have only ever seen it the way Seppel has done it. The option to use a shot is a choice. After that it should resolve as normal. If you get blocked or it somehow fails, oh well. It's a risk you take when you use a shotted ability.
I've seen shots be retained if roleblocked and shots be lost if roleblocked, so it could have gone either way. I'm satisfied with the answers Seppel provided.
It SHOULD be stated though in the rules if you plan on using the method.
This is the problem I'm seeing. You know, aside from I've never heard of it before, it definitely is something that needs to be stated outright. I really dislike the fact that he apparently told the Mafia this would be the case, but not the town. Were they aware of it before it happened?
What right do you have to grill Seppel when he went out of his way to do the game a favor?
I'm sorry, is this not a free country where I can ask any questions I please? If Seppel has no problem answering them (which, he'd say it if he did, especially since it's me asking them, I guarantee it) then why do you?
If replacement hosts can expect to see this kind of treatment in the future, we might as well cancel any game where the host becomes suddenly unavailable.
Well that's hyperbole and an overreaction to what's going on here. I don't think I've made Seppel feel that it isn't appreciated that he took the game over.
I am giving Seppel the benefit of the doubt and trust that he was not being biased in any of his decision-making, and I would hope that you would too.
Oh, I'm sure his mindset wasn't biased, but it appears some of his actions may have been, either consciously or sub-consciously. I'm trying to discern that.
If you can't understand that, then I can't help you.
No one asked for you help, dear.
Iso wasn't even typing in complete sentences. I wasn't going to talk to him under those circumstances, and I didn't want him to continue talking to anyone like that in a public manner.
I don't doubt you Tan. I'm sure it's happened. You don't need to link it.
I played and read games from before the upgrade but I wasn't a prolific MS player.
Quote from AI »
You made this game much more interesting to play, and I'm glad to get a chance to actually play with you (as opposed to my non-existence in Powerful Wizards)
Same.
And wait, didn't you replace me in that game? I remember that well.
Quote from AI »
If there are any more like you where you're from, tell them that they're all welcome here.
I could explore something like this, but we would need to talk about it first.
I'm sorry, is this not a free country where I can ask any questions I please? If Seppel has no problem answering them (which, he'd say it if he did, especially since it's me asking them, I guarantee it) then why do you?
Well that's hyperbole and an overreaction to what's going on here. I don't think I've made Seppel feel that it isn't appreciated that he took the game over.
I don't know Seppel as well as you do, but I was offended for his sake.
Oh, I'm sure his mindset wasn't biased, but it appears some of his actions may have been, either consciously or sub-consciously. I'm trying to discern that.
One's actions can't be biased if one's mindset isn't. Seppel did what he thought was best under the circumstances. It happened to work out well for the mafia and poorly for the town. C'est la vie.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I don't know Seppel as well as you do, but I was offended for his sake.
Ok. He's a big boy.
One's actions can't be biased if one's mindset isn't. Seppel did what he thought was best under the circumstances. It happened to work out well for the mafia and poorly for the town. C'est la vie.
I disagree, but whatever.
It's part of my job to keep the drama levels in this subforum at a manageable level. Thanks in advance for being a part of the solution.
I don't believe it's part of your job to dictate what can and can't be said in a game thread, especially when there is no drama. Two brothers and one of their best friends are having a discussion. I find it hard to believe that you actually thought this would explode into a huge situation.
Yes, Iso is upset. Understandably so. But he loves his brother.
I came in here to get Seppel's input so that I could effectively calm Iso down, as I'm their friend and he came to me incredibly upset.
Therefore, I see no reason for your statement to have been made.
This also occurs to me: one reason I don't feel upset about losing is that I feel we were legitimately outplayed. Our only lynch was from a cop investigation: we were in the game because of power roles, not behavioral analysis success.
If we had won it would have basically been down to cop PoE.
From an outsider's perspective that read most of the game:
I don't see an issue with Seppel's NL or RB rules.
He should've updated the OP, but given the situation, I can understand the mishap.
Drama potential in the post-game was reaching non-0 levels.
Congrats to the scum team.
Eh, I'm a little confused how this turned out, but at least I'm still batting a thousand for picking out AsianI as scum. I glanced at the game a few times and was surprised he was allowed to live.
Interesting.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Except it's not a shot per se, and with the order of night actions he follows in all his game, the roleblock should go through before a doctor is even able to attempt to protect. Absolutely explainable for him to not lose his shot.
I mean, I can see it the other way, too, so I want to know Seppel's rationale. I think it will help Iso to understand and calm down.
Really? What was/were the question(s) and what, specifically, would have happened if you had answered?
Fair enough. As I said, I can see it going either way. Sucks for Iso, but
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
Yay for town megadisputes. It's hard for me to say what I would have exactly done if it was four to lynch instead of three. I think I would probably found the rush to no lynch alarming, unvoted and encouraged more discussion since that's my usual go to ideology (see SC mafia).
I did not intend to put you in a bad situation by the way, I wasn't trying to game you for more inappropriate info - I thought my query was legitimate.
I can kind of understand the "actual events logic" behind this but mechanically and from a gameplay standpoint it seems to be wonky for you to use a limited ability and keep it even though you were played around and it failed. You could also argue it makes very little sense how doctors would hang around before kills and everything. It's really one of those "personal interpetations of the mod" things that tend to be swayed by common cultural opinions.
Also, thank you to Seppel, my lover and friend, for re-hosting this game. And Kpaca as well for designing it/persuading me to play in it.
As for the 50% thing, again I have seen it done before, primarily on Xylbot and Mafiascum. It is actually not that uncommon of an occurrence. It SHOULD be stated though in the rules if you plan on using the method.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
What right do you have to grill Seppel when he went out of his way to do the game a favor? If replacement hosts can expect to see this kind of treatment in the future, we might as well cancel any game where the host becomes suddenly unavailable.
I am giving Seppel the benefit of the doubt and trust that he was not being biased in any of his decision-making, and I would hope that you would too. If you can't understand that, then I can't help you.
Iso wasn't even typing in complete sentences. I wasn't going to talk to him under those circumstances, and I didn't want him to continue talking to anyone like that in a public manner.
You made this game much more interesting to play, and I'm glad to get a chance to actually play with you (as opposed to my non-existence in Powerful Wizards). If there are any more like you where you're from, tell them that they're all welcome here.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
I've seen shots be retained if roleblocked and shots be lost if roleblocked, so it could have gone either way. I'm satisfied with the answers Seppel provided.
This is the problem I'm seeing. You know, aside from I've never heard of it before, it definitely is something that needs to be stated outright. I really dislike the fact that he apparently told the Mafia this would be the case, but not the town. Were they aware of it before it happened?
I'm sorry, is this not a free country where I can ask any questions I please? If Seppel has no problem answering them (which, he'd say it if he did, especially since it's me asking them, I guarantee it) then why do you?
Well that's hyperbole and an overreaction to what's going on here. I don't think I've made Seppel feel that it isn't appreciated that he took the game over.
Oh, I'm sure his mindset wasn't biased, but it appears some of his actions may have been, either consciously or sub-consciously. I'm trying to discern that.
No one asked for you help, dear.
Why, exactly, is this your choice to make?
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
I played and read games from before the upgrade but I wasn't a prolific MS player.
Same.
And wait, didn't you replace me in that game? I remember that well.
I could explore something like this, but we would need to talk about it first.
Your tone struck me as extremely disrespectful.
I don't know Seppel as well as you do, but I was offended for his sake.
One's actions can't be biased if one's mindset isn't. Seppel did what he thought was best under the circumstances. It happened to work out well for the mafia and poorly for the town. C'est la vie.
It's a figure of speech, darling.
It's part of my job to keep the drama levels in this subforum at a manageable level. Thanks in advance for being a part of the solution.
See, I told you my head wasn't in that game.
I look forward to it!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I don't see how, but ok.
Ok. He's a big boy.
I disagree, but whatever.
I don't believe it's part of your job to dictate what can and can't be said in a game thread, especially when there is no drama. Two brothers and one of their best friends are having a discussion. I find it hard to believe that you actually thought this would explode into a huge situation.
Yes, Iso is upset. Understandably so. But he loves his brother.
I came in here to get Seppel's input so that I could effectively calm Iso down, as I'm their friend and he came to me incredibly upset.
Therefore, I see no reason for your statement to have been made.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
If we had won it would have basically been down to cop PoE.
I don't see an issue with Seppel's NL or RB rules.
He should've updated the OP, but given the situation, I can understand the mishap.
Drama potential in the post-game was reaching non-0 levels.
Congrats to the scum team.
Interesting.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
GAME ACTIONS
Day 1
* Jobie shoots Deathjoey [Success]
Night 1
* Kill-joy roleblocks Iso [Success]
* Iso protects Tanarin [Failure - Roleblocked]
* Niv kills ced [Success]
* Charm cops Kill-joy [Success - Mafia]
Day 2
* Jobie shoots Kill-joy [Success]
Night 2
* Iso protects Charm [Success]
* Niv kills Charm [Failure - Protected by Iso]
* Charm investigates AsianInvasion [Success - Town]
Day 3
* [None]
Night 3
* Iso protects Charm [Success]
* AsianInvasion kills ProphetKing [Success]
* Charm investigates AsianInvasion [Success - Mafia]
=============================
SCUM
Kill-joy - Roleblocker
AI - 1-shot Godfather
Niv - 1-shot Dayvig
TOWN
Iso - 3-shot Doc
Charm - Cop
Jobie - 2-shot Dayvig
Everyone else - Vanilla
Wait, did I say innocently? I meant impatiently.
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)