Suppose the answer is yes, Iso did talk more about what he did. What was your case?
The exact post I made regarding what one could perceive Iso's actions as.
You simply cannot reconcile wanting to resolve your confusion and not wanting him to say more. If you cannot resolve your confusion yourself, there is not way Iso can do so without providing more information.
I don't understand.
No where in your #235 do you mention that you believe Iso's behavior to be scummy. No where in Tilde's #237 does he explain Iso's behavior.
You're grasping at straws here.
In the same post I said what his behavior was AN EXAMPLE OF, I also happened to say AGAIN that I DO NOT THINK HE IS SCUM.
The exact post I made regarding what one could perceive Iso's actions as.
That was your "MUCH more?" Uh-huh.
Quote from Some One »
Quote from iLord »
You simply cannot reconcile wanting to resolve your confusion and not wanting him to say more. If you cannot resolve your confusion yourself, there is not way Iso can do so without providing more information.
I don't understand.
You were confused about Iso's actions. The only way to resolve your confusion is with additional information, not with merely knowing whether there exists additional information.
Quote from Some One »
In the same post I said what his behavior was AN EXAMPLE OF, I also happened to say AGAIN that I DO NOT THINK HE IS SCUM.
I understand what your #242 means. I'm pointing out that there was no content between it and #238 that could have changed your mind from, by your own words, you thought he was scummy.
You were confused about Iso's actions. The only way to resolve your confusion is with additional information, not with merely knowing whether there exists additional information.
Both?
I understand what your #242 means. I'm pointing out that there was no content between it and #238 that could have changed your mind from, by your own words, you thought he was scummy.
Did it bother me? Yes. If he had a crappy reason for doing what he did that made my 271 valid, you already know what would have happened.
I don't want the basis. I don't want the entire case. Since you're essentially arguing that you didn't have "MUCH more" to say since the answer to your question is "no," I want to know what you would have said had the answer been "yes," without any further elaboration on what Iso did.
Quote from Some One »
Quote from iLord »
You were confused about Iso's actions. The only way to resolve your confusion is with additional information, not with merely knowing whether there exists additional information.
Both?
Your response here makes no sense whatsoever. You've been arguing for the past 100 posts that you supposedly did not want Iso to give additional information.
Quote from Some One »
Quote from iLord »
I understand what your #242 means. I'm pointing out that there was no content between it and #238 that could have changed your mind from, by your own words, you thought he was scummy.
Did it bother me? Yes. If he had a crappy reason for doing what he did that made my 271 valid, you already know what would have happened.
You're completely avoiding the point. You stated in your #340:
Quote from Some One »
I originally did not understand why Iso did what he did and I thought it was scummy to have claimed. However, perfectly logical reasonings were provided and now I do not think he was scum, and have not thought he was scum since he made it clear to me why he did what he did.
At #238, you still believe he is scummy. At #242, you magically no longer do. There was absolutely nothing explaining Iso's actions in between. You're lying, and there's no way out.
I don't want the basis. I don't want the entire case. Since you're essentially arguing that you didn't have "MUCH more" to say since the answer to your question is "no," I want to know what you would have said had the answer been "yes," without any further elaboration on what Iso did.
You want me to present an irrelevant case that I don't believe in? Instead of posting actual content about something else, for example? You're that self serving?
Your response here makes no sense whatsoever. You've been arguing for the past 100 posts that you supposedly did not want Iso to give additional information.
I don't understand your question.
You're completely avoiding the point. You stated in your #340:
At #238, you still believe he is scummy. At #242, you magically no longer do. There was absolutely nothing explaining Iso's actions in between. You're lying, and there's no way out.
Switching gears for a second, what's your point? So you say that I am lying and that you think I initially thought he wasn't scum? So, what does that prove? How does this equate to you thinking I'm scum?
WoD: In post #103, I see you citing Pinky's gut as a reason to vote Arcadic. At that point, what had Pinky done to appear town enough for you to trust her gut? Did you not feel that your own reasoning as strong enough by itself?
Completely missed this part of the post.
I see disdain of the RVS as a null tell - I myself tend to lurk through it, whenever I can get away with it.
Cyan famously dislikes everything about it.
Pinky put some good arguments about Arcadic in, that I felt I could expand upon, and made Arcadic deserving of my vote.
I'm always happy to barn arguments I feel are good - it saves me having to do work
You want me to present an irrelevant case that I don't believe in? Instead of posting actual content about something else, for example? You're that self serving?
Your original words:
Quote from Some One, Post #235 »
I have MUCH more to say on this topic, but would love that question to be answered first.
This clearly implies that you have thoughts already formulated on what you would say if the answer to the question was "yes." I don't necessarily need to hear all of those thoughts, but I need more than just a sentence. I need to know what you intended to say and how what you needed to say was dependent upon the answer to your question, because I don't believe you actually had anything in mind.
Quote from Some One »
Quote from iLord, Post #348, to which he is referring »
You simply cannot reconcile wanting to resolve your confusion and not wanting him to say more. If you cannot resolve your confusion yourself, there is not way Iso can do so without providing more information.
I don't understand your question.
There is no question. It's simply an irrefutable point.
Quote from Some One »
Quote from iLord »
You're completely avoiding the point. You stated in your #340:
At #238, you still believe he is scummy. At #242, you magically no longer do. There was absolutely nothing explaining Iso's actions in between. You're lying, and there's no way out.
Switching gears for a second, what's your point? So you say that I am lying and that you think I initially thought he wasn't scum? So, what does that prove? How does this equate to you thinking I'm scum?
"So I was caught lying and I can't deny it anymore. What does that prove? How does that equate to me being scum?"
Oh, HELL no. Tilde CLEARLY wants me at L-2 so I am forced to claim. Because he's TERRIFIED SCUM. LOOK AT THIS MASSIVE FISHING EXPEDITION. Can we just lynch Tilde already? :| I've presented my case, nobody has presented a rebuttal sans meta, there is no logical reason Tilde should still be alive. SERIOUSLY.
Some One can wait until tomorrow.
Just please put your paranoia aside for ONE DAY and lynch Tilde. We have sufficient evidence to lynch Some One tomorrow. Tilde is a MAJOR THREAT to the town. We NEED TO GET RID OF HIM. NOW.
Take a chill pill, dude.
Let me read over your case on Tilde. I'm pretty sure there's nothing there, but I'll read it anyway.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
"So I was caught lying and I can't deny it anymore. What does that prove? How does that equate to me being scum?"
Exactly. Answer it.
Truly, you have reached new level in desperation if you're willing to concede that you were lying.
You were caught trying to fabricate a position on a topic. When called to explain it, you were unable to provide a legitimate reason, so you had no choice but to make one up. That's scum behavior, plain and simple.
...what possible motivation did you have for lying about that?
Well, I'm glad you asked.
It's pure carelessness.
You can't discern malicious intent from my actions, and I've even done this before as town at another busy point in my life. In that game (Small Town) I literally flip-flopped my thoughts completely over the course of a busy weekend without any remote reasoning.
You can't discern malicious intent from my actions, and I've even done this before as town at another busy point in my life. In that game (Small Town) I literally flip-flopped my thoughts completely over the course of a busy weekend without any remote reasoning.
"You've caught me lying. But you can't prove that I'm scum because I always lie!"
You are so scum.
@Iso: You've got to admit that this is significantly more blatant than Tilde?
You can't discern malicious intent from my actions, and I've even done this before as town at another busy point in my life. In that game (Small Town) I literally flip-flopped my thoughts completely over the course of a busy weekend without any remote reasoning.
I don't think I even need to say anything about this.
"You've caught me lying. But you can't prove that I'm scum because I always lie!"
You are so scum.
@Iso: You've got to admit that this is significantly more blatant than Tilde?
Never said it wasn't. I agree that Some One is being horribly obviously scummy with poor play and reasoning. Which is why Tilde must die first. We have enough of a case against Some One. But as I said, Tilde is a major threat.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Never said it wasn't. I agree that Some One is being horribly obviously scummy with poor play and reasoning. Which is why Tilde must die first. We have enough of a case against Some One. But as I said, Tilde is a major threat.
At this point, I feel like a Some One lynch is significantly more likely. Would you settle with his lynch if it looks like a Tilde lynch is not likely to occur?
Yes. I can settle for a Some One lynch. However, if I die tonight, I would just like to remind everyone to lynch Tilde tomorrow. If I don't die, I'll happily continue pushing his lynch on my own.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I disagree. But because it's acceptable to settle for second choice, at least at Day 1, Unvote, Vote Some One. But Tilde absolutely needs to die as soon as possible.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I disagree. But because it's acceptable to settle for second choice, at least at Day 1, Unvote, Vote Some One. But Tilde absolutely needs to die as soon as possible.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Town can be careless. Maybe not in this context. But you implied that town couldn't be careless.
I intended, of course, for it to be read in context: Townies would not be careless in the fashion that Some One was because they would have actual reads and opinions.
Of course. I think it's possible that some players may just be horribly inept, but I am disinclined to believe that this is the case in Some One's situation.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Of course. I think it's possible that some players may just be horribly inept, but I am disinclined to believe that this is the case in Some One's situation.
After a certain point, Grey's Law does apply, but Some One definitely does not possess such "sufficiently advanced incompetence."
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It's a pity that Anak and WoD didn't take definite stances before Some One admitted he was lying.
Would you just want me to say I am for his lynch without going through and making a whole case?
In short, yes I am not opposed to lynching him. He is my second choice, behind Iso (trust me, I haven't forgotten about you). I pointed out my dislike of him earlier, but that wasn't enough.
I still would rather focus our attention on Iso though.
On another note, I have reasons for not wanting this day to end just yet. I'll be gone for ~16 hours, so I would be much obliged if no one hammered Some One even if a consensus is reached in that time.
Anak, is there a particular reason why I'm above Some One on your scumlist besides the fact that I refuse to respond to your ridiculous fishing expedition?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Attempts to paint me as scummy through something said in the Mafia Theory thread that was said before CIM was even announced to be running. Also, this implies that Tilde is not Cyan.
Tilde trying really badly to speculate on the setup is one of the nullest null tells that was ever null. He does it in every game, no matter how much we tell him he's crazy. Maybe on another player this might be a scum tell, but on him it really isn't.[/quote]
Suggests that dan is a Jester. Tilde's by no means a new player and should know by this point that on MTGS, Jesters are frowned upon, and are only allowed if announced in the setup. But I can see attempting to paint dan as a Jester as something to the effect of hinting at a (possible) Vig target. Maybe that's reaching a little, but that was my first reaction to possible motives Tilde might have for implicating dan as a Jester.
Also, the whole figuring out dan's post restriction thing reads to me as scum attempting to seem useful.
"Here, let me cast suspicion on Iso because he thinks I'm scum!" Is it not completely legitimate to change your reads based on new information? Why would Tilde have any reason to put suspicion on me when he expressed none prior to the point where I created my possible scum list?
Here, he's quite rightly calling you out on your absolutely baseless speculation about a scumteam. And you were TOTALLY hedging your bets there. That's one of those "sweeping generalizations" I was talking about - where you make really big, grandiose statements with absolutely no basis or proof, then if they occasionally turn out to be right, you blow your trumpet for all it's worth.
"Your first T/S list has no behavioral analysis attached to it, despite that being completely reasonable at this stage in the game! And how dare you allow yourself the ability to be wrong, despite that being completely reasonable at this stage in the game!" Because so frequently all of the scum are caught within the first 150 posts of the game, right, guys?
So don't post such a definitive scumlist, if there's NOTHING TO BACK IT UP.
Does not mesh with the previous statement about allowing myself to be wrong. Blatant smear and baseless discrediting of my reads.Incidentally, none of this had occurred until AFTER Tilde was on my scum list.
Hey Tilde, remember how you were pushing suspicion on to g_d and then dropped it like a hot potato as soon as he stopped having a PR?
Me, too.
I'd hardly call it baseless, and you did a pretty good job smearing yourself, with that scumlist and caveat.
Despite, you know, g_d researching Cyan quotes for hours so that he could communicate with us.
If I were scum, I wouldn't have any reason to remove g_d's PR. It would be within my best interest as scum not to even allude to the fact that I could. So once again, Tilde is attempting to fling dirt my way, despite the fact that my removal of g_d's PR is high risk, low reward if I'm scum.
Totally makes sense, am I right?
This is completely WIFOM. If you want people to stop poking you about this, you can just tell us WHAT YOU DID to let Dan speak again. Clearly you know something.
And back on this again. Despite all of the information in the thread indicating otherwise, Tilde STILL tries to harp on this. What possible motive could he have for that as town?
Ahh, there's the vote. Tilde, of course, had to put distance between my vote and his to attempt to not make it look like he's just trying to get rid of me for being on his ass. Then attempts to smear me further by misrepresenting my intentions for wanting Eco to provide content, and THEN claims to vote for me based on the long-dead PR issue? dan did not and could not indicate that he could only vote for people Cyan had voted for with his PR in effect, so how could I have known that was the case? TO TOP IT OFF, I WASN'T EVEN CONFIRMED BY THE TIME G_D CONFIRMED. And the person I replaced did not confirm, meaning they could not have induced the PR on dan. Speaking from a chronological standpoint, then, it makes absolutely no sense for Tilde to STILL be pushing this on to me unless he is scum who wants me to get lynched. In regards to the voting restriction, even if I had known that he could not vote for me at the time, once again, what would I have to gain from removing his PR, in that case? Tilde is intentionally pushing a bad wagon and he knows it.
Encouraging us to wifom up reasons that you're not guilty of whatever the heck it is Tilde is accusing you of is no defense. And, to be fair, your vote on him was unsupported, and you did very quickly move onto something else.
To my joke of the Cyan PR being impossible. Blatant misrepresentation of two words used. As a joke. Because it's CYAN'S IMPOSSIBLE MAFIA. Hence the /Cyan after that. There is no possible way, as proven by confirmation order, that I could have given dan the post restriction.
There's plenty of ways. This is Cyan's Impossible Mafia.
Which Tilde knows full well I did not ask, but rather, addressed. Like I said, looking for any possible excuse he can to paint me as scummy.
I've said my piece on that.
Now, I'm sure you'd read all these posts differently if you'd played with Tilde before. He's never played with you before, either.
Therefore, I think this is two very unorthodox mafia players butting heads when they meet for the first time.
Tilde needs to read his sig - you need to take off the beer goggles.
-----------------------------------------------------------
My professional opinion as the most experienced Mafia noob on Salvation:
There's nothing here.
So put it on the backburner and scumhunt Arcadic or Some One.
So you're handwaving my case on Tilde as meta and baseless speculation? As I've said many times before, my reads are NEVER baseless. You may disagree with them, I may not give much in the way of reasoning for them, but they are NEVER baseless. And why should I give my reasoning when you're just going to handwave it away? I'm not blowing my trumpet when I "just so happen to be right". I'm right for a reason, and accepting this as fact will make this game a town win all that much faster. I will push on Tilde until he is lynched. Believe that.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm right for a reason, and accepting this as fact will make this game a town win all that much faster. I will push on Tilde until he is lynched. Believe that.
I know that when I die I'm flipping town. So I know the craptastic logic behind the argument that town cannot possibly be careless.
If you need me to get to L-5 to hopefully deter my death, so be it.
But if my claim ain't good enough, there's so much excellent analysis from my wagon that it's fine, I have faith in the town uncovering the scum looking to quickly barn awful logic.
The refute I have to iLord is I did the exact same thing before as town, but neither him nor Iso care to listen to that.
I screwed up, as town, and if I'm lynched, you will all see that.
So you're handwaving my case on Tilde as meta and baseless speculation? As I've said many times before, my reads are NEVER baseless. You may disagree with them, I may not give much in the way of reasoning for them, but they are NEVER baseless. And why should I give my reasoning when you're just going to handwave it away? I'm not blowing my trumpet when I "just so happen to be right". I'm right for a reason, and accepting this as fact will make this game a town win all that much faster. I will push on Tilde until he is lynched. Believe that.
What WoD is trying to say is that the basis for your read is fundamentally flawed. ~Tilde~ talks complete bollocks and conspiracy theories totally regardless of alignment. He always makes attacks which look insane because they make perfect sense to him and his own horrendously skewed interpretation of the game.
Thus - while your attacks may be well based in general - they cannot apply to Tilde, because he is stone cold nuts.
I know that when I die I'm flipping town. So I know the craptastic logic behind the argument that town cannot possibly be careless.
If you need me to get to L-5 to hopefully deter my death, so be it.
But if my claim ain't good enough, there's so much excellent analysis from my wagon that it's fine, I have faith in the town uncovering the scum looking to quickly barn awful logic.
The refute I have to iLord is I did the exact same thing before as town, but neither him nor Iso care to listen to that.
I screwed up, as town, and if I'm lynched, you will all see that.
SO has painted himself into a corner and his only out is this self-defeatist appeal to emotion. Not going to fly.
What WoD is trying to say is that the basis for your read is fundamentally flawed. ~Tilde~ talks complete bollocks and conspiracy theories totally regardless of alignment. He always makes attacks which look insane because they make perfect sense to him and his own horrendously skewed interpretation of the game.
Thus - while your attacks may be well based in general - they cannot apply to Tilde, because he is stone cold nuts.
The critical issue, and what I feel Iso fears, is that scumTilde is given free-rein to ride unmolested to the endgame. After my questioning, I feel like Tilde's thoughts are coherent enough to be genuine and not fabricated for the sake of keeping up his meta. In your opinion, how can you distinguish scum and town Tilde?
Alright, I skimmed the thread, and I think I can be happy with a Some_One lynch. Before I vote, I'd like to see a votecount, though. Once again, sorry that I haven't been active this game.
What WoD is trying to say is that the basis for your read is fundamentally flawed. ~Tilde~ talks complete bollocks and conspiracy theories totally regardless of alignment. He always makes attacks which look insane because they make perfect sense to him and his own horrendously skewed interpretation of the game.
Thus - while your attacks may be well based in general - they cannot apply to Tilde, because he is stone cold nuts.
The fact that most, if not all, of you are willing to excuse Tilde's behavior just by saying, "Meta, meta, meta," disappoints me greatly.
The critical issue, and what I feel Iso fears, is that scumTilde is given free-rein to ride unmolested to the endgame. After my questioning, I feel like Tilde's thoughts are coherent enough to be genuine and not fabricated for the sake of keeping up his meta. In your opinion, how can you distinguish scum and town Tilde?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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The exact post I made regarding what one could perceive Iso's actions as.
I don't understand.
In the same post I said what his behavior was AN EXAMPLE OF, I also happened to say AGAIN that I DO NOT THINK HE IS SCUM.
That was your "MUCH more?" Uh-huh.
You were confused about Iso's actions. The only way to resolve your confusion is with additional information, not with merely knowing whether there exists additional information.
I understand what your #242 means. I'm pointing out that there was no content between it and #238 that could have changed your mind from, by your own words, you thought he was scummy.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
As I said, the basis.
Both?
Did it bother me? Yes. If he had a crappy reason for doing what he did that made my 271 valid, you already know what would have happened.
I don't want the basis. I don't want the entire case. Since you're essentially arguing that you didn't have "MUCH more" to say since the answer to your question is "no," I want to know what you would have said had the answer been "yes," without any further elaboration on what Iso did.
Your response here makes no sense whatsoever. You've been arguing for the past 100 posts that you supposedly did not want Iso to give additional information.
You're completely avoiding the point. You stated in your #340:
At #238, you still believe he is scummy. At #242, you magically no longer do. There was absolutely nothing explaining Iso's actions in between. You're lying, and there's no way out.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
You want me to present an irrelevant case that I don't believe in? Instead of posting actual content about something else, for example? You're that self serving?
I don't understand your question.
Switching gears for a second, what's your point? So you say that I am lying and that you think I initially thought he wasn't scum? So, what does that prove? How does this equate to you thinking I'm scum?
I see disdain of the RVS as a null tell - I myself tend to lurk through it, whenever I can get away with it.
Cyan famously dislikes everything about it.
Pinky put some good arguments about Arcadic in, that I felt I could expand upon, and made Arcadic deserving of my vote.
I'm always happy to barn arguments I feel are good - it saves me having to do work
Your original words:
This clearly implies that you have thoughts already formulated on what you would say if the answer to the question was "yes." I don't necessarily need to hear all of those thoughts, but I need more than just a sentence. I need to know what you intended to say and how what you needed to say was dependent upon the answer to your question, because I don't believe you actually had anything in mind.
There is no question. It's simply an irrefutable point.
"So I was caught lying and I can't deny it anymore. What does that prove? How does that equate to me being scum?"
My Custom Set: Solescurio
As with Anaklusmos, I'm interested in your opinion on a Some One lynch.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Let me read over your case on Tilde. I'm pretty sure there's nothing there, but I'll read it anyway.
You don't think scum is a major threat to the town? Combined with Tilde's cunning...definitely not an overreaction. He needs to die today.
Sorry. I just cannot stress how important it is that we kill Tilde.
And does that mean you didn't read it when I presented it?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
At this point, I don't believe Tilde's scum. Also I would hardly call Tilde "cunning" - he has been very upfront the entire game.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Exactly. Answer it.
>_>
I'm gonna punch you if I die before Tilde does when he flips scum.
Through the internet.
...what possible motivation did you have for lying about that?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Truly, you have reached new level in desperation if you're willing to concede that you were lying.
You were caught trying to fabricate a position on a topic. When called to explain it, you were unable to provide a legitimate reason, so you had no choice but to make one up. That's scum behavior, plain and simple.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
And if he flips town? Should you punch yourself instead?
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Well, I'm glad you asked.
It's pure carelessness.
You can't discern malicious intent from my actions, and I've even done this before as town at another busy point in my life. In that game (Small Town) I literally flip-flopped my thoughts completely over the course of a busy weekend without any remote reasoning.
"You've caught me lying. But you can't prove that I'm scum because I always lie!"
You are so scum.
@Iso: You've got to admit that this is significantly more blatant than Tilde?
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Odds of that happening are less than 1%, but yes, I will punch myself, quite literally, for your amusement and for me being so horribly wrong.
Good thing that won't be happening.
I don't think I even need to say anything about this.
Never said it wasn't. I agree that Some One is being horribly obviously scummy with poor play and reasoning. Which is why Tilde must die first. We have enough of a case against Some One. But as I said, Tilde is a major threat.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
At this point, I feel like a Some One lynch is significantly more likely. Would you settle with his lynch if it looks like a Tilde lynch is not likely to occur?
My Custom Set: Solescurio
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Just curious.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You can't be careless if you have actual reads and opinions.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You disagree with my statement?
My Custom Set: Solescurio
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I intended, of course, for it to be read in context: Townies would not be careless in the fashion that Some One was because they would have actual reads and opinions.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
After a certain point, Grey's Law does apply, but Some One definitely does not possess such "sufficiently advanced incompetence."
My Custom Set: Solescurio
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Good god, I read that article on Grey's Law, and I swear it was written about my ex.
I could never tell the difference betwee when she was being stupid and when she was being a *****.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I swear there used to be a Wikipedia article for it. Not sure where it went, so I picked up the first suitable link I found.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Would you just want me to say I am for his lynch without going through and making a whole case?
In short, yes I am not opposed to lynching him. He is my second choice, behind Iso (trust me, I haven't forgotten about you). I pointed out my dislike of him earlier, but that wasn't enough.
I still would rather focus our attention on Iso though.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Now, I'm sure you'd read all these posts differently if you'd played with Tilde before. He's never played with you before, either.
Therefore, I think this is two very unorthodox mafia players butting heads when they meet for the first time.
Tilde needs to read his sig - you need to take off the beer goggles.
-----------------------------------------------------------
My professional opinion as the most experienced Mafia noob on Salvation:
There's nothing here.
So put it on the backburner and scumhunt Arcadic or Some One.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
If you need me to get to L-5 to hopefully deter my death, so be it.
But if my claim ain't good enough, there's so much excellent analysis from my wagon that it's fine, I have faith in the town uncovering the scum looking to quickly barn awful logic.
The refute I have to iLord is I did the exact same thing before as town, but neither him nor Iso care to listen to that.
I screwed up, as town, and if I'm lynched, you will all see that.
What WoD is trying to say is that the basis for your read is fundamentally flawed. ~Tilde~ talks complete bollocks and conspiracy theories totally regardless of alignment. He always makes attacks which look insane because they make perfect sense to him and his own horrendously skewed interpretation of the game.
Thus - while your attacks may be well based in general - they cannot apply to Tilde, because he is stone cold nuts.
SO has painted himself into a corner and his only out is this self-defeatist appeal to emotion. Not going to fly.
I'm speaking nothing but the truth. You'll see. You'll all see.
This is so feigned it hurts.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
The critical issue, and what I feel Iso fears, is that scumTilde is given free-rein to ride unmolested to the endgame. After my questioning, I feel like Tilde's thoughts are coherent enough to be genuine and not fabricated for the sake of keeping up his meta. In your opinion, how can you distinguish scum and town Tilde?
My Custom Set: Solescurio
@Mod: Votecount, please.
Some One (4): Ecophagy, iLord, ganderin_dan, Iso
Arcadic (2): Gigas1, Wrath_of_DoG
Iso (2): Anaklusmos, ~Tilde~
Not Voting (4): Cyouni, Some One, pinkys_brain, Arcadic
With 12 alive, it is 7 to lynch.
What are you doing when I flip town? And all this suddenly becomes "iLord was DEAD wrong?"
Bad news. It will have to wait till the boss leaves today.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Thanks, mom.
@Some One: So you're saying that if you flip town, the rest of the town should look at iLord and myself? Why, if you believe I'm town?
The fact that most, if not all, of you are willing to excuse Tilde's behavior just by saying, "Meta, meta, meta," disappoints me greatly.
All I have to say about scum Tilde:
Points Mafia.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player