I'm operating under an assumption, based on what tiny glimmers of (mis?)information Iso <sarcasm>deigns to give out in his magnanimousness. </sarcasm> So yes, Iso's vanilla ability seems to be the best explanation at this time. As to why he did it? Best guess is to get townie points, since Iso doesn't want to give details.
Why are you so concerned about the details, Tilde? What possible town motivation could you have for attempting to oust the details of my ability? I explained why I removed dan's PR. So why are you putting misinformation into the thread? Another thing I can see no possible town motive for doing.
Quote from ~Tilde~ »
I'm convinced YOU'RE scum, and pinky's supporting you somewhat, but you came out of the gate this game with this statement:
I'm convinced you're scum AND daft.
Quote from ~Tilde~ »
Let me reiterate: You declared Pinky AS TOWN IN YOUR 1ST POST and the only apparent reason for that is his disdain for the RVS. That puts pinky as a nominal scum read.
Yes, that was clearly my only reason for pegging pinky as playing her town game. /sarcasm (Look, I can do it, too!) Are all of your assumptions this bad or are you going for a new record this game? Your logic for pinky as scum is because she's agreeing with me (which is probably one of the first times ever in a game we've been in together, I might add) and because I read her town game into her first post?
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@Arcadic - Failure to respond to my super snarky, yet also very serious request for justification on your vote noted.
Based on what. Why do you think he's Town? How can you justify the fact that he massively over-reacted to Pinky at the start of the game? How can you justify the fact that his vote on me is incredibly flimsy, and how he ignored my post asking him to explain?
And, most importantly of all:
HOW can you justify the fact that he shot Some One in the face with no prior suspicions voiced, with no justification and more importantly, with ZERO discussion.
"this is his town meta", or "my gut tells me this!" are not answers I'll be satisfied with.
I love the classic "i'm town you shot town" over-reaction here by WOD. Consider this was his last 3 posts up to my shotting of SO's face.
Unless the answer is "because Some One is trying to make us all remember how little gigas has contributed to the game, thereby arousing our suspicions, and taking heat away from himself, because lurking is scummy rite?"
then no.
Lets also all re-read the 50 posts before SO died. No-one was expressing any feelings of backing off SO and not lynching him today.
Lets also note that the entire reason he's voted me is off of a feeling and my "weak" attack on Pinky. He's shown no case as to why i'm scum other than that, but i'm for sure 100% scum to him.
You realize that Arcadic is attacking him for giving information when people like you and Anka keeping fishing for information right?
Wrong, I'm attacking for him leaking information unrelated to the public claims and actions that occured. Iso SHOULD be telling us more about how and what ability un-gag'd GD. Thats all he should be telling us, not crumbing more and more role info along with not answering logical questions.
1) you didn't say anything about SO.
2) Nothing I received via PM about the offer said anything about missing night. Why are you lying?
I'll concede that i had no public read on SO other than disliking the main post that started Ilord's line of questioning on him. The problem is, why does that matter? Did you see SO's lynch not happening?
2. Read between the lines. We "lynched" SO and its now "day 2" with no night. I can't tell if you just didn't get it or are so tunneled on me that you'd find this scummy.
I'm missing something here. You admit to pulling the trigger on SO, because... he'd have fired randomly tonight otherwise?
Wait, what? Did you scuttle your own gambit?
I used the shot that everyone else had to kill SO. I did it because i myself had caught up in the game and thought he should be lynched. I shot him because it gained us a body to go off of and kept the day going.
~~~ you are crazy. I was asking what the trigger was for the mass-daykill option on SO. To me, it looked like Iso was the cause because he posted that crumb about SO dying today.
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Could you explain to me why you feel Anak's vote lacks emotional consistency?
His post was dominated by an almost objective analysis of how Tilde's response was reasonable. Then at it's conclusion, he abruptly asserts that he believes you're scum with no bridge, transition, or explanation.
I think you forgot that I have been voting Iso the entire game, and only revoted because the votes were reset when SO died. I don't really see how it could seem sudden, but it is possible that I am not articulating it well enough. Will work on that.
Indeed, I forgot.
Looking back however, you're vote in #81 was based entirely on Iso's early game behavior. I don't recall very much of Iso's play you've had issue with since then (correct me if I'm wrong). Do you still believe that Iso is the player most likely to be scum at this point?
I'll concede that i had no public read on SO other than disliking the main post that started Ilord's line of questioning on him. The problem is, why does that matter? Did you see SO's lynch not happening?
2. Read between the lines. We "lynched" SO and its now "day 2" with no night. I can't tell if you just didn't get it or are so tunneled on me that you'd find this scummy.
But why didn't you tell/ask the town first? What would you have had to lose?
Iso SHOULD be telling us more about how and what ability un-gag'd GD. Thats all he should be telling us, not crumbing more and more role info along with not answering logical questions.
Agreed on this. The additional chaff Iso keeps throwing out is just churning up the water.
Read between the lines. We "lynched" SO and its now "day 2" with no night.
I used the shot that everyone else had to kill SO. I did it because i myself had caught up in the game and thought he should be lynched. I shot him because it gained us a body to go off of and kept the day going.
OK. I can see the reasoning behind this. It's still you firing a very impulsive-looking unilateral daykill on SO. Your normal play is a lot more reserved than this.
~~~ you are crazy. I was asking what the trigger was for the mass-daykill option on SO. To me, it looked like Iso was the cause because he posted that crumb about SO dying today.
I'm fully aware of my "eccentric tendencies". But this raises an interesting tangent. What if the ability to lift GD's PR was an event trigger, and Iso was the one who tripped it?
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I love the classic "i'm town you shot town" over-reaction here by WOD. Consider this was his last 3 posts up to my shotting of SO's face.
You are reaching so hard here. You didn't state a read on SO. You admited much. The stuff in bold was truth.
I don't see how you get that it's scummy.
Lets also all re-read the 50 posts before SO died. No-one was expressing any feelings of backing off SO and not lynching him today.
Iso did you know you were consider no one?
Let me put this less *****y. Iso unvoted and reevulate the claim and discussed it. iLord seemed pretty intent in his views as well as WoD. Many others didn't comment on the claim.
I'll concede that i had no public read on SO other than disliking the main post that started Ilord's line of questioning on him. The problem is, why does that matter? Did you see SO's lynch not happening?
2. Read between the lines. We "lynched" SO and its now "day 2" with no night. I can't tell if you just didn't get it or are so tunneled on me that you'd find this scummy.
1) I don't know. I have seen people that looked like the most likely lynched to crazy things happening and someone else getting lynched. I would say looking at the conversation there more a more then probable chance of SO getting lynched. That still does not validate your lack of comments about him.
2) The title of this game says day 1. Page one of the game says day 1. Where in the world are you getting that today is day 2?
If your trying to say that because you did the day kill there was no night, is inaccurate. It's still day 1. We still have a lynch for day 1 and hope that we lynch scum during day 1. What information did you gain from SO's death?
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Let me put this less *****y. Iso unvoted and reevulate the claim and discussed it. iLord seemed pretty intent in his views as well as WoD. Many others didn't comment on the claim.
Quote from pinkys_brain »
2) The title of this game says day 1. Page one of the game says day 1. Where in the world are you getting that today is day 2?
If your trying to say that because you did the day kill there was no night, is inaccurate. It's still day 1. We still have a lynch for day 1 and hope that we lynch scum during day 1. What information did you gain from SO's death?
As much as I hate to pull an iLord, I can see what Arc was getting at with it. It's essentially given us a second lynch today. Though I agree with you that little information was yielded from it. Perhaps if more discussion had taken place before the daykill.
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I love the classic "i'm town you shot town" over-reaction here by WOD. Consider this was his last 3 posts up to my shotting of SO's face.
Uh, yeah, because CLEARLY that was my only argument :rolleyes:.
Total misrepresentation.
Sure, I wanted to see Some One lynched. I think that was a general consensus. And I'm sure that somebody would have pulled the trigger eventually... But it was not up to you to just murder him with no discussion, especially when he hadn't even pinged your scumdar before that.
A normal person would have been like "HAY GUYS I NOW HAVE THE POWER TO KILL SOME ONE WHENEVER, should I do it???". The fact that you claimed it afterwards, is neither here nor there to me.
And while Some One was probably dead anyway, that was not an excuse to preclude all further discussion by daykilling him out of the blue.
Lets also note that the entire reason he's voted me is off of a feeling and my "weak" attack on Pinky. He's shown no case as to why i'm scum other than that, but i'm for sure 100% scum to him.
I love how you accuse me of over-reacting to your daykilling of Some One, then say that my only reasons for voting you are the above. Strawman. Or misrep. Or something else, I don't know.
Either way, completely untrue, and a very scummy way to throw doubt onto my arguments. You're not 100% scum to me, no-one except a mafioso can ever be sure of an alignment, but the way you're going about discrediting my case rather than defending yourself is scummy as hell.
It's not the entire reason, I've never said that, and you're STILL ignoring my request for you to STATE YOUR CASE ON ME PROPERLY, or stop harping on about me being scum.
The last time someone kept mindlessly accusing me like that, they were scum. It was Zindy, in Ged's Normal, and he was a Mafia Traitor.
So yeah.
Discounting my arguments with flawed accusations of hypocrisy: Not the way to go.
2) The title of this game says day 1. Page one of the game says day 1. Where in the world are you getting that today is day 2?
If your trying to say that because you did the day kill there was no night, is inaccurate. It's still day 1. We still have a lynch for day 1 and hope that we lynch scum during day 1. What information did you gain from SO's death?
What he was saying is that while technically it's still day 1, the fact that the lynch target for the day (I'm sure we can all agree it was going to be SO) was killed, so it might as well be day 2 with a no-kill Night.
What he was saying is that while technically it's still day 1, the fact that the lynch target for the day (I'm sure we can all agree it was going to be SO) was killed, so it might as well be day 2 with a no-kill Night.
Point of order - it might as well be day 2 with a no-action Night.
@Arcadic - Failure to respond to my super snarky, yet also very serious request for justification on your vote noted.
Based on what. Why do you think he's Town? How can you justify the fact that he massively over-reacted to Pinky at the start of the game? How can you justify the fact that his vote on me is incredibly flimsy, and how he ignored my post asking him to explain?
And, most importantly of all:
HOW can you justify the fact that he shot Some One in the face with no prior suspicions voiced, with no justification and more importantly, with ZERO discussion.
"this is his town meta", or "my gut tells me this!" are not answers I'll be satisfied with.
I'm coming to agree here. Arcadic's instant decision to kill SO only looks bad. Scum would love to get that townie dead, especially when they can justify it by simply speeding up the inevitable - never mind that Iso had unvoted and I had clearly stated reservations; never mind that lynching SO might have caused extra triggers, gaining at least a vig shot and 2 other things. We were also discussing the badness of unilaterally doing things with SO. Did Arc just ignore these warnings?
Arcadic not having a scum read is also a bad sign. I would only expect a very confident townie to pull the trigger that fast, which Arcadic clearly wasn't.
Keeping the day going isn't a great help unless SO's body provides something. Arc hasn't produced anything which strongly suggests that he wasn't looking for SO's death to actually help - he just wanted him dead.
In sum, Arcadic is looking a lot like bloodthirsty scum who jumped on an opportunity to off a townie because he thought he had reasonable grounds.
Arcadic coming clean is, as you said, uncharacteristic of scum players.
I'm not convinced that this is much of a point in Arc's favour - he'd been narrowed down to being the killer (or Gigas...yeah right), and confessing to use an ability gifted to him (essentially publicly, since everyone else got it) isn't that brave a leap.
Also Seppel: Can you do something about Gigas? He's made 4 posts, only one of which contained anything approaching content. Can you make him play the game or replace him please?
I'm not convinced that this is much of a point in Arc's favour - he'd been narrowed down to being the killer (or Gigas...yeah right), and confessing to use an ability gifted to him (essentially publicly, since everyone else got it) isn't that brave a leap.
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I'm not convinced that this is much of a point in Arc's favour - he'd been narrowed down to being the killer (or Gigas...yeah right), and confessing to use an ability gifted to him (essentially publicly, since everyone else got it) isn't that brave a leap. Vote Arcadic
You're correct in that it's not much of a point. However, Iso wanted a definitive opinion concerning his alignment, and intuitively, it is very unnatural for scum to come forward. I'm by no means confident in my read, but that was my snap judgment.
I was going to say something along the lines of "he wasn't actually forced to claim". But looking back, his crosspost #492 with Seppel's makes it pretty unambiguous that he initiated the daykill. By his #528, he had little option but to claim the kill at risk of someone correctly going back and interpreting #492 at some point. I think he initially imagined that daykill would be received much more warmly.
These lines in #528 particularly concern me:
Quote from Arcadic »
Here's me essentially claiming the kill. I of course fired the shot because of 2 reasons. SO looked very likely to ether stall the game for a few days or just be the lynch. We gained a body and the scum lost a night.
His first "of course" feels incongruous if you try to imagine someone saying/typing the sentence. Used here, it could describe either the fact that he was the one who shot Some One or his reasons for doing so. Neither of them have proven to be obvious conclusions, and it gives the sense that though Arcadic himself is not very confident in his reasoning, he's trying to hand-wave it as self-evident.
His "2 reasons" also seem very hastily composed, much like how I'm interpreting pinky's explanation of her initial attack. The first reason is not very well developed at all, and the second is incredibly fundamental. The meat of the discussion concerns whether or not he should do so with the town consent, which he completely ignores.
And that's the complete extent of his explanation in #528. He immediately follows this up with critiquing players' reactions to the flip.
@Arcadic: At this point, I am most interested in why you felt the need to act unilaterally.
I'm not convinced that this is much of a point in Arc's favour - he'd been narrowed down to being the killer (or Gigas...yeah right), and confessing to use an ability gifted to him (essentially publicly, since everyone else got it) isn't that brave a leap.
I wasn't narrowed down, the rest of the game simply did not look into why my crosspost with the mod was a crosspost. I'll address some of the other issues later.
Sure, I wanted to see Some One lynched. I think that was a general consensus. And I'm sure that somebody would have pulled the trigger eventually... But it was not up to you to just murder him with no discussion, especially when he hadn't even pinged your scumdar before that.
Except, there was plenty of discussion about his lynch. I came to the conclusion while reading up that i was going to place my vote on SO. I don't see much reservation or reluctance to not continue with SO's lynch. I did not "murder" SO, i followed up on what i saw the game's progression to be.
A normal person would have been like "HAY GUYS I NOW HAVE THE POWER TO KILL SOME ONE WHENEVER, should I do it???". The fact that you claimed it afterwards, is neither here nor there to me.
Except lets go over the whole reason Iso is being attacked for doing that very same thing. I had zero clue that everyone else had the same trigger. Also, i love how you are calling me abnormal here instead of town/scum.
And while Some One was probably dead anyway, that was not an excuse to preclude all further discussion by daykilling him out of the blue.
Again, what discussion? There was plenty of discussion already about SO's scummyness.
I love how you accuse me of over-reacting to your daykilling of Some One, then say that my only reasons for voting you are the above. Strawman. Or misrep. Or something else, I don't know.
I love how hindsight is fueling your case on me, despite your vote being SO.
Either way, completely untrue, and a very scummy way to throw doubt onto my arguments. You're not 100% scum to me, no-one except a mafioso can ever be sure of an alignment, but the way you're going about discrediting my case rather than defending yourself is scummy as hell.
Discrediting your case = Defending myself. The two are not mutually exclusive.
It's not the entire reason, I've never said that, and you're STILL ignoring my request for you to STATE YOUR CASE ON ME PROPERLY, or stop harping on about me being scum.
OMGUS!!! MAKE A CASE!!! I'M NOT SCUM. If you were really town you'd not care about my vote on you. You'd just push my wagon without worrying about people voting you. Your obviously concerned that i am finding your actions scummy, which is not a townie response.
You are reaching so hard here. You didn't state a read on SO. You admited much. The stuff in bold was truth.
I don't see how you get that it's scummy.
Its a classic scum-tell. I've seen it before and i'll see it again. Scum tend to over-react to the killing of a townie right after they flip to appear town. What is most telling in this case was that WOD was VOTING SO. He did not have a town read on SO, so his entire ZOMG U HIT TOWN post feels completely fabricated.
Iso did you know you were consider no one?
Let me put this less *****y. Iso unvoted and reevulate the claim and discussed it. iLord seemed pretty intent in his views as well as WoD. Many others didn't comment on the claim.
Thanks for proving my point. It looked like SO's lynch was going to happen. I simply shortened the amount time.
1) I don't know. I have seen people that looked like the most likely lynched to crazy things happening and someone else getting lynched. I would say looking at the conversation there more a more then probable chance of SO getting lynched. That still does not validate your lack of comments about him.
2) The title of this game says day 1. Page one of the game says day 1. Where in the world are you getting that today is day 2?
If your trying to say that because you did the day kill there was no night, is inaccurate. It's still day 1. We still have a lynch for day 1 and hope that we lynch scum during day 1. What information did you gain from SO's death?
I never said my lack of comments validates my actions. Your complete lack of answering my question here is noted.
Again, i can't tell if your so tunneled on me you can't see the logicistics of what i am saying or if you just don't get it period.
OK. I can see the reasoning behind this. It's still you firing a very impulsive-looking unilateral daykill on SO. Your normal play is a lot more reserved than this.
Define "Normal Play". Town play? Scum Play? Neutral play? If you can't define it, than how is it indicitive of my alignment?
I'm fully aware of my "eccentric tendencies". But this raises an interesting tangent. What if the ability to lift GD's PR was an event trigger, and Iso was the one who tripped it?
Not likely, the timing doesn't mesh. I'm more of the thought that something with the votes on SO triggered it, since his role was unlynchable unkillable town vig. Sounds a lot like a Cyan role, a role that can't be conventionally killed, but instead when a trigger hits he can be daykilled by any player.
Ilord's reasoning and line of questioning SO comes across very town and level-headed. I didn't see any traps or one-sided questions within his SO case. Anak is a null read, but i seem to remember 1 post that was scummy. (search isn't working for me right now.)
@Ilord: Its not that i had to re-claim it because of POE, its that i wasn't around to re-claim it until i was POE'd.
Also, i simply felt that regardless of my actions the result would have been the same. In hinsight, should i have simply waited or claimed the ability? Probably. I felt that my use of that kill reflected accurately the opinions of the majority of the game.
The irony in hind-sight is that this is exactly what Cyan would have done.
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2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
As much as I hate to pull an iLord, I can see what Arc was getting at with it. It's essentially given us a second lynch today. Though I agree with you that little information was yielded from it. Perhaps if more discussion had taken place before the daykill.
I've seen many a daykill before. I never saw a person saying we don't have a night phase. It feels like he added the statement to make the daykill of SO sound better.
I'm not convinced that this is much of a point in Arc's favour - he'd been narrowed down to being the killer (or Gigas...yeah right), and confessing to use an ability gifted to him (essentially publicly, since everyone else got it) isn't that brave a leap.
I swear.....scum don't always blantly lie. They deceive, they hide, they blend in, they fabricate, misrepresent, prey on weakness, ect. That is all part of being scum. His claim at best is null.
You're correct in that it's not much of a point. However, Iso wanted a definitive opinion concerning his alignment, and intuitively, it is very unnatural for scum to come forward. I'm by no means confident in my read, but that was my snap judgment.
I was going to say something along the lines of "he wasn't actually forced to claim". But looking back, his crosspost #492 with Seppel's makes it pretty unambiguous that he initiated the daykill. By his #528, he had little option but to claim the kill at risk of someone correctly going back and interpreting #492 at some point. I think he initially imagined that daykill would be received much more warmly.
These lines in #528 particularly concern me:
His first "of course" feels incongruous if you try to imagine someone saying/typing the sentence. Used here, it could describe either the fact that he was the one who shot Some One or his reasons for doing so. Neither of them have proven to be obvious conclusions, and it gives the sense that though Arcadic himself is not very confident in his reasoning, he's trying to hand-wave it as self-evident.
His "2 reasons" also seem very hastily composed, much like how I'm interpreting pinky's explanation of her initial attack. The first reason is not very well developed at all, and the second is incredibly fundamental. The meat of the discussion concerns whether or not he should do so with the town consent, which he completely ignores.
And that's the complete extent of his explanation in #528. He immediately follows this up with critiquing players' reactions to the flip.
@Arcadic: At this point, I am most interested in why you felt the need to act unilaterally.
For me it seems like instead of discussing SO or the claim he is using the excuse of an "inevitable lynch" of SO as reason to shot.
Claiming information of a dead body and no night as additional reasons, one which he has not expanded on and the other is a bit misleading.
A daykill is a daykill. The second part just wasn't necessary comment in my view.
Again, what discussion? There was plenty of discussion already about SO's scummyness.
What about the soft claim SO made? Did you miss that discussion?
OMGUS!!! MAKE A CASE!!! I'M NOT SCUM. If you were really town you'd not care about my vote on you. You'd just push my wagon without worrying about people voting you. Your obviously concerned that i am finding your actions scummy, which is not a townie response.
What I read in this is you have no case and are just throwing ****.
Its a classic scum-tell. I've seen it before and i'll see it again. Scum tend to over-react to the killing of a townie right after they flip to appear town. What is most telling in this case was that WOD was VOTING SO. He did not have a town read on SO, so his entire ZOMG U HIT TOWN post feels completely fabricated.
The point was and how I saw it was you shot a player you never put any view on. And you continue to vote and comment about things with no view and with misreprestation and mudslinging.
Thanks for proving my point. It looked like SO's lynch was going to happen. I simply shortened the amount time.
I never said my lack of comments validates my actions. Your complete lack of answering my question here is noted.
Again, i can't tell if your so tunneled on me you can't see the logicistics of what i am saying or if you just don't get it period.
I again answered the question, this is the second time I caught you misrepresnting me. You really enjoy mudsling my post. And the hypocrisy of this statement is laughable.
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mafia win/lose record
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2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Arc's initial posting just struck me as town Arc. I wouldn't be able to give you a specific reason why, it was mostly just gut at that point.
Arc is pushing ideas around in a manner I would expect town to. I don't get a scum vibe from his posts.
Finally, Arc claimed the Daykill of Some One, and his coming clean on the matter speaks well for him.
I just can't see him as scum at this point.
And here I was thinking that scum might just pull the trigger with no explanation, no prior suspicion, without reading the thread, just to make sure it actually happens, then take credit for it in an attempt to seem pro-town.
But that's WIFOM, so, once again, I say that the coming forward of Arcadic is a null tell.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm looking at the timestamp of the "daykill Some One" PM I got. I think it's a safe bet that Iso's Post #490 was made IMMEDIATELY after he received it.
Arcadic's post #492 and 493, was made literally seconds after SO was killed. Let's say... half an hour of real time, at most, between the PM being sent and Arcadic's response to pull the trigger.
Define "Normal Play". Town play? Scum Play? Neutral play? If you can't define it, than how is it indicitive of my alignment?
You didn't consider, or care about, the potential consequences of your actions. You wanted SO dead and wanted him dead immediately. You admit to have pulled the trigger, but in 492/493, you tried to distance yourself from it under the guise of a simulpost.
THAT'S WILLFUL INTENT TO DENY RESPONSIBILITY FOR SOME ONE'S DEATH.
Well, that's a totally non-compelling argument. Congratulation.
I only get one congratulation?
But eh, I can't make you see my interpretation of how I perceive a player's actions. Which is why I'm guessing Tilde isn't dead yet. But anyway, unless evidence that convinces me otherwise comes forward, I will not be on an Arcadic wagon this game.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The risk/reward factor of Arcadic claiming the kill. Why would he bring so much attention to himself and not just lie about it? I know I brought this up earlier, but KILLING a player is something that is to be highly scrutinized. So why would he take that great a risk if he didn't think it was worth the reward?
I'm sure this will be waved off as WIFOM, but still.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The risk/reward factor of Arcadic claiming the kill. Why would he bring so much attention to himself and not just lie about it? I know I brought this up earlier, but KILLING a player is something that is to be highly scrutinized. So why would he take that great a risk if he didn't think it was worth the reward?
I'm sure this will be waved off as WIFOM, but still.
Let hypothetically say that Arcadic did the kill and lies.
People already had come in to state about receiving the PM, and not using it.
There are obvious people you take out of the equation as being responisble for the kill:
SO - I don't see anyone killing themself
gigas - MIA not post anywhere I found.
Then there was you:
You talked openly about the possiblity of using the kill.
I was behind and reading. GD stated the same. Either of us could be lying but I was making post showing my catch up there.
iLord stated he was thinking about things.
Eco/Tilde claimed to receive the role PM but not shot.
At this point if Arcadic scum lies then there is questions to all. It puts the person who lies about not shooting to continue to lie, over and over again through out questioning. That is not in my view an easy thing to do. You have to stand up to scrunity, people contants questioning and probing.
The only thing scum may gain from lying is to mud sling at the player that pushed for SO lynch the hardest.
That's it. If there is something more that scum get from lying please explain what.
What scum gain from being open it that some people will think it is town to tell the truth.
If Arcadic had given something of a view, or reason, or comment it would not be as damning. His handwaving the point away as though it is though it doesn't matter because it was "inevitable" leaves me pause, along with his multiple misreps, lack of/ weak case and the backtracking I caught him doing = scum.
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Except, there was plenty of discussion about his lynch. I came to the conclusion while reading up that i was going to place my vote on SO. I don't see much reservation or reluctance to not continue with SO's lynch. I did not "murder" SO, i followed up on what i saw the game's progression to be.
Murder; n. the premeditated killing of one human being(in this case SO) by another(in this case Arcadic).
Except lets go over the whole reason Iso is being attacked for doing that very same thing. I had zero clue that everyone else had the same trigger. Also, i love how you are calling me abnormal here instead of town/scum.
Uh, no, what I was saying is the fact that you came forward, taking responsibility for the kill, is not at this time submissible as evidence of alignment - since as I said above in my post to Iso, it could be a town or scum action.
The actual KILLING of Some One with no discussion, and no prior vocalization of suspicion on your part, now THAT was super scummy.
OMGUS!!! MAKE A CASE!!! I'M NOT SCUM. If you were really town you'd not care about my vote on you. You'd just push my wagon without worrying about people voting you. Your obviously concerned that i am finding your actions scummy, which is not a townie response.
Once again, no case, whatsoever, proving that once again, your vote on me is completely baseless, and you continue to refuse to justify it. I don't care that you're voting me, I don't find it threatening, what I care about is the fact that you are absolutely terrified of trying to make a case on me, since you know that I'm Town, and that you'll have to stretch ridiculously hard to make any points against me. So yeah, THAT'S why I'm pushing so hard to get you to make a case. If you were a townie, you'd have just unvoted by now rather than panicking and getting super defensive. I've caught scum with this before, and I can see that I've done it again here
Please, keep refusing to make a case on me, and pushing how scummy you find me without it - it's just making you look worse and worse.
Its a classic scum-tell. I've seen it before and i'll see it again.Scum tend to over-react to the killing of a townie right after they flip to appear town. What is most telling in this case was that WOD was VOTING SO. He did not have a town read on SO, so his entire ZOMG U HIT TOWN post feels completely fabricated.
Yet again, ignoring the fact that I wasn't crying about the fact that SO is dead, or even the fact that he's Town. He was dead anyway, so it was going to happen. Once again, what I care about, is you pulling the trigger with no prior suspicions, no discussion, and no notice.
That's it. If there is something more that scum get from lying please explain what.
It's a lot easier to maintain a lie than you might think. I can imagine it would be pretty simple to vehemently deny that you were the person who pulled the trigger and say that someone else did it and is lying. It would cause confusion, mistrust, paranoia, and other such things. I feel like if Arcadic denied the kill as scum, it would benefit the scum more. As it is, it only benefits Arcadic to have claimed the kill. You follow? Scum have to function as a team, a single unit in order to make the most of their resources. Casting suspicion on other players is simply to the benefit of the mafia. Can you explain to me how it benefits them more for Arcadic to have claimed the kill?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
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2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It's a lot easier to maintain a lie than you might think. I can imagine it would be pretty simple to vehemently deny that you were the person who pulled the trigger and say that someone else did it and is lying. It would cause confusion, mistrust, paranoia, and other such things. I feel like if Arcadic denied the kill as scum, it would benefit the scum more. As it is, it only benefits Arcadic to have claimed the kill. You follow? Scum have to function as a team, a single unit in order to make the most of their resources. Casting suspicion on other players is simply to the benefit of the mafia. Can you explain to me how it benefits them more for Arcadic to have claimed the kill?
Once again, I say, It is a NULL TELL that he CLAIMED the kill.
But that doesn't quite address the question. To what ends would it benefit the mafia for him to claim the kill, assuming he is part of it?
Is it only a null tell to you because of the way everything was presented regarding it? Would you consider it a town tell if there had been deliberation about the kill prior to it?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
But that doesn't quite address the question. To what ends would it benefit the mafia for him to claim the kill, assuming he is part of it?
Is it only a null tell to you because of the way everything was presented regarding it? Would you consider it a town tell if there had been deliberation about the kill prior to it?
No, it's a null tell, because it's WIFOM.
Without solid evidence of motivation, and given two roughly equal options, speculation of motive is somewhat useless.
Given that there are benefits to both town and scum for coming out with it, it's not a point worth pursuing until we have more information.
But as I said, the fact that he DID kill Some One with zero notification, justification, or prior suspicion, looks scummy as hell. The fact that he took responsibility for it means nothing.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
But that doesn't quite address the question. To what ends would it benefit the mafia for him to claim the kill, assuming he is part of it?
Is it only a null tell to you because of the way everything was presented regarding it? Would you consider it a town tell if there had been deliberation about the kill prior to it?
Lets just say it's null for just a minute. Lets just say the sake of arguement that he discussed his views and shot SO and blah, blah, blah.
Please explain to me what town would make false statements and mudsling against other players? Arcadic has made false acusations against me. He is riding on a weak case. The hypocrisy mostly drives me to drink (I found it to be a null tell). But his I can't believe he is this blantant about it.
I can't believe with everything I have seen from Arcadic that he is dumb.
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Why are you so concerned about the details, Tilde? What possible town motivation could you have for attempting to oust the details of my ability? I explained why I removed dan's PR. So why are you putting misinformation into the thread? Another thing I can see no possible town motive for doing.
I'm convinced you're scum AND daft.
Yes, that was clearly my only reason for pegging pinky as playing her town game. /sarcasm (Look, I can do it, too!) Are all of your assumptions this bad or are you going for a new record this game? Your logic for pinky as scum is because she's agreeing with me (which is probably one of the first times ever in a game we've been in together, I might add) and because I read her town game into her first post?
REACH HARDER, SCUM.
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2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I love the classic "i'm town you shot town" over-reaction here by WOD. Consider this was his last 3 posts up to my shotting of SO's face.
Lets also all re-read the 50 posts before SO died. No-one was expressing any feelings of backing off SO and not lynching him today.
Lets also note that the entire reason he's voted me is off of a feeling and my "weak" attack on Pinky. He's shown no case as to why i'm scum other than that, but i'm for sure 100% scum to him.
Wrong, I'm attacking for him leaking information unrelated to the public claims and actions that occured. Iso SHOULD be telling us more about how and what ability un-gag'd GD. Thats all he should be telling us, not crumbing more and more role info along with not answering logical questions.
I'll concede that i had no public read on SO other than disliking the main post that started Ilord's line of questioning on him. The problem is, why does that matter? Did you see SO's lynch not happening?
2. Read between the lines. We "lynched" SO and its now "day 2" with no night. I can't tell if you just didn't get it or are so tunneled on me that you'd find this scummy.
I used the shot that everyone else had to kill SO. I did it because i myself had caught up in the game and thought he should be lynched. I shot him because it gained us a body to go off of and kept the day going.
~~~ you are crazy. I was asking what the trigger was for the mass-daykill option on SO. To me, it looked like Iso was the cause because he posted that crumb about SO dying today.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
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2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
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2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'll expand on my meta reasoning more later today with links after the boss leaves.
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Also known at mafiascum as farside22
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
WoD, what are your thoughts concerning pinky and Arcadic's interactions?
Would anybody that isn't named Tilde or Anaklusmos be against an Anak lynch today?
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2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
His post was dominated by an almost objective analysis of how Tilde's response was reasonable. Then at it's conclusion, he abruptly asserts that he believes you're scum with no bridge, transition, or explanation.
Indeed, I forgot.
Looking back however, you're vote in #81 was based entirely on Iso's early game behavior. I don't recall very much of Iso's play you've had issue with since then (correct me if I'm wrong). Do you still believe that Iso is the player most likely to be scum at this point?
But why didn't you tell/ask the town first? What would you have had to lose?
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Agreed on this. The additional chaff Iso keeps throwing out is just churning up the water.
OK. I can see the reasoning behind this. It's still you firing a very impulsive-looking unilateral daykill on SO. Your normal play is a lot more reserved than this.
See above, you "shotting SO's face" is atypically aggressive of you.
I'm fully aware of my "eccentric tendencies". But this raises an interesting tangent. What if the ability to lift GD's PR was an event trigger, and Iso was the one who tripped it?
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Could you clarify what you mean by this?
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2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
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2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Seems pretty self-explanatory. (and the fact you're asking makes me think I'm right)
The option to lift GD's PR was a "quick-time event", and Iso (probably by chance, maybe by choice) managed to trigger it.
Which begs the question: If this is true Iso, why didn't you come forward with this information at the start?
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
ganderin_dan already said that his PR was something he started with.
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2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
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2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
"Nothing to see here! Please ignore the man behind the curtain!"
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
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2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Iso, stop making yourself out to be so damn poke-able.
You two are driving me crazy.
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2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You are reaching so hard here. You didn't state a read on SO. You admited much. The stuff in bold was truth.
I don't see how you get that it's scummy.
Iso did you know you were consider no one?
Let me put this less *****y. Iso unvoted and reevulate the claim and discussed it. iLord seemed pretty intent in his views as well as WoD. Many others didn't comment on the claim.
1) I don't know. I have seen people that looked like the most likely lynched to crazy things happening and someone else getting lynched. I would say looking at the conversation there more a more then probable chance of SO getting lynched. That still does not validate your lack of comments about him.
2) The title of this game says day 1. Page one of the game says day 1. Where in the world are you getting that today is day 2?
If your trying to say that because you did the day kill there was no night, is inaccurate. It's still day 1. We still have a lynch for day 1 and hope that we lynch scum during day 1. What information did you gain from SO's death?
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Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Yeah, I noticed that.
As much as I hate to pull an iLord, I can see what Arc was getting at with it. It's essentially given us a second lynch today. Though I agree with you that little information was yielded from it. Perhaps if more discussion had taken place before the daykill.
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2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
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Total misrepresentation.
Sure, I wanted to see Some One lynched. I think that was a general consensus. And I'm sure that somebody would have pulled the trigger eventually... But it was not up to you to just murder him with no discussion, especially when he hadn't even pinged your scumdar before that.
A normal person would have been like "HAY GUYS I NOW HAVE THE POWER TO KILL SOME ONE WHENEVER, should I do it???". The fact that you claimed it afterwards, is neither here nor there to me.
And while Some One was probably dead anyway, that was not an excuse to preclude all further discussion by daykilling him out of the blue.
I love how you accuse me of over-reacting to your daykilling of Some One, then say that my only reasons for voting you are the above. Strawman. Or misrep. Or something else, I don't know.
Either way, completely untrue, and a very scummy way to throw doubt onto my arguments. You're not 100% scum to me, no-one except a mafioso can ever be sure of an alignment, but the way you're going about discrediting my case rather than defending yourself is scummy as hell.
It's not the entire reason, I've never said that, and you're STILL ignoring my request for you to STATE YOUR CASE ON ME PROPERLY, or stop harping on about me being scum.
The last time someone kept mindlessly accusing me like that, they were scum. It was Zindy, in Ged's Normal, and he was a Mafia Traitor.
So yeah.
Discounting my arguments with flawed accusations of hypocrisy: Not the way to go.
Point of order - it might as well be day 2 with a no-action Night.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
I'm coming to agree here. Arcadic's instant decision to kill SO only looks bad. Scum would love to get that townie dead, especially when they can justify it by simply speeding up the inevitable - never mind that Iso had unvoted and I had clearly stated reservations; never mind that lynching SO might have caused extra triggers, gaining at least a vig shot and 2 other things. We were also discussing the badness of unilaterally doing things with SO. Did Arc just ignore these warnings?
Arcadic not having a scum read is also a bad sign. I would only expect a very confident townie to pull the trigger that fast, which Arcadic clearly wasn't.
Keeping the day going isn't a great help unless SO's body provides something. Arc hasn't produced anything which strongly suggests that he wasn't looking for SO's death to actually help - he just wanted him dead.
In sum, Arcadic is looking a lot like bloodthirsty scum who jumped on an opportunity to off a townie because he thought he had reasonable grounds.
I'm not convinced that this is much of a point in Arc's favour - he'd been narrowed down to being the killer (or Gigas...yeah right), and confessing to use an ability gifted to him (essentially publicly, since everyone else got it) isn't that brave a leap.
Vote Arcadic
Archonoid replaces Gigas1. He will have access to the thread shortly.
Then why didn't he lie about it?
Welcome to the game, Archonoid.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
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2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You're correct in that it's not much of a point. However, Iso wanted a definitive opinion concerning his alignment, and intuitively, it is very unnatural for scum to come forward. I'm by no means confident in my read, but that was my snap judgment.
I was going to say something along the lines of "he wasn't actually forced to claim". But looking back, his crosspost #492 with Seppel's makes it pretty unambiguous that he initiated the daykill. By his #528, he had little option but to claim the kill at risk of someone correctly going back and interpreting #492 at some point. I think he initially imagined that daykill would be received much more warmly.
These lines in #528 particularly concern me:
His first "of course" feels incongruous if you try to imagine someone saying/typing the sentence. Used here, it could describe either the fact that he was the one who shot Some One or his reasons for doing so. Neither of them have proven to be obvious conclusions, and it gives the sense that though Arcadic himself is not very confident in his reasoning, he's trying to hand-wave it as self-evident.
His "2 reasons" also seem very hastily composed, much like how I'm interpreting pinky's explanation of her initial attack. The first reason is not very well developed at all, and the second is incredibly fundamental. The meat of the discussion concerns whether or not he should do so with the town consent, which he completely ignores.
And that's the complete extent of his explanation in #528. He immediately follows this up with critiquing players' reactions to the flip.
@Arcadic: At this point, I am most interested in why you felt the need to act unilaterally.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
I wasn't narrowed down, the rest of the game simply did not look into why my crosspost with the mod was a crosspost. I'll address some of the other issues later.
Except, there was plenty of discussion about his lynch. I came to the conclusion while reading up that i was going to place my vote on SO. I don't see much reservation or reluctance to not continue with SO's lynch. I did not "murder" SO, i followed up on what i saw the game's progression to be.
Except lets go over the whole reason Iso is being attacked for doing that very same thing. I had zero clue that everyone else had the same trigger. Also, i love how you are calling me abnormal here instead of town/scum.
Again, what discussion? There was plenty of discussion already about SO's scummyness.
Discrediting your case = Defending myself. The two are not mutually exclusive.
OMGUS!!! MAKE A CASE!!! I'M NOT SCUM. If you were really town you'd not care about my vote on you. You'd just push my wagon without worrying about people voting you. Your obviously concerned that i am finding your actions scummy, which is not a townie response.
Its a classic scum-tell. I've seen it before and i'll see it again. Scum tend to over-react to the killing of a townie right after they flip to appear town. What is most telling in this case was that WOD was VOTING SO. He did not have a town read on SO, so his entire ZOMG U HIT TOWN post feels completely fabricated.
Thanks for proving my point. It looked like SO's lynch was going to happen. I simply shortened the amount time.
I never said my lack of comments validates my actions. Your complete lack of answering my question here is noted.
Again, i can't tell if your so tunneled on me you can't see the logicistics of what i am saying or if you just don't get it period.
Define "Normal Play". Town play? Scum Play? Neutral play? If you can't define it, than how is it indicitive of my alignment?
Not likely, the timing doesn't mesh. I'm more of the thought that something with the votes on SO triggered it, since his role was unlynchable unkillable town vig. Sounds a lot like a Cyan role, a role that can't be conventionally killed, but instead when a trigger hits he can be daykilled by any player.
Ilord's reasoning and line of questioning SO comes across very town and level-headed. I didn't see any traps or one-sided questions within his SO case. Anak is a null read, but i seem to remember 1 post that was scummy. (search isn't working for me right now.)
@Ilord: Its not that i had to re-claim it because of POE, its that i wasn't around to re-claim it until i was POE'd.
Also, i simply felt that regardless of my actions the result would have been the same. In hinsight, should i have simply waited or claimed the ability? Probably. I felt that my use of that kill reflected accurately the opinions of the majority of the game.
The irony in hind-sight is that this is exactly what Cyan would have done.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I've seen many a daykill before. I never saw a person saying we don't have a night phase. It feels like he added the statement to make the daykill of SO sound better.
/Barn
WIFOM.
I swear.....scum don't always blantly lie. They deceive, they hide, they blend in, they fabricate, misrepresent, prey on weakness, ect. That is all part of being scum. His claim at best is null.
For me it seems like instead of discussing SO or the claim he is using the excuse of an "inevitable lynch" of SO as reason to shot.
Claiming information of a dead body and no night as additional reasons, one which he has not expanded on and the other is a bit misleading.
A daykill is a daykill. The second part just wasn't necessary comment in my view.
What about the soft claim SO made? Did you miss that discussion?
What I read in this is you have no case and are just throwing ****.
The point was and how I saw it was you shot a player you never put any view on. And you continue to vote and comment about things with no view and with misreprestation and mudslinging.
I again answered the question, this is the second time I caught you misrepresnting me. You really enjoy mudsling my post. And the hypocrisy of this statement is laughable.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
I don't see it. Walk me through it in detail.
Arc is pushing ideas around in a manner I would expect town to. I don't get a scum vibe from his posts.
Finally, Arc claimed the Daykill of Some One, and his coming clean on the matter speaks well for him.
I just can't see him as scum at this point.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So...Gut and WIFOM?
Why wouldn't scum claim the kill, when they have what they feel is a legitimate (pro-town) reason behind it?
But that's WIFOM, so, once again, I say that the coming forward of Arcadic is a null tell.
In that case, yes, gut and WIFOM.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Well, that's a totally non-compelling argument. Congratulation.
Arcadic's post #492 and 493, was made literally seconds after SO was killed. Let's say... half an hour of real time, at most, between the PM being sent and Arcadic's response to pull the trigger.
You didn't consider, or care about, the potential consequences of your actions. You wanted SO dead and wanted him dead immediately. You admit to have pulled the trigger, but in 492/493, you tried to distance yourself from it under the guise of a simulpost.
THAT'S WILLFUL INTENT TO DENY RESPONSIBILITY FOR SOME ONE'S DEATH.
Unvote, Vote Arcadic
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
I only get one congratulation?
But eh, I can't make you see my interpretation of how I perceive a player's actions. Which is why I'm guessing Tilde isn't dead yet. But anyway, unless evidence that convinces me otherwise comes forward, I will not be on an Arcadic wagon this game.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The risk/reward factor of Arcadic claiming the kill. Why would he bring so much attention to himself and not just lie about it? I know I brought this up earlier, but KILLING a player is something that is to be highly scrutinized. So why would he take that great a risk if he didn't think it was worth the reward?
I'm sure this will be waved off as WIFOM, but still.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Let hypothetically say that Arcadic did the kill and lies.
People already had come in to state about receiving the PM, and not using it.
There are obvious people you take out of the equation as being responisble for the kill:
SO - I don't see anyone killing themself
gigas - MIA not post anywhere I found.
Then there was you:
You talked openly about the possiblity of using the kill.
I was behind and reading. GD stated the same. Either of us could be lying but I was making post showing my catch up there.
iLord stated he was thinking about things.
Eco/Tilde claimed to receive the role PM but not shot.
At this point if Arcadic scum lies then there is questions to all. It puts the person who lies about not shooting to continue to lie, over and over again through out questioning. That is not in my view an easy thing to do. You have to stand up to scrunity, people contants questioning and probing.
The only thing scum may gain from lying is to mud sling at the player that pushed for SO lynch the hardest.
That's it. If there is something more that scum get from lying please explain what.
What scum gain from being open it that some people will think it is town to tell the truth.
If Arcadic had given something of a view, or reason, or comment it would not be as damning. His handwaving the point away as though it is though it doesn't matter because it was "inevitable" leaves me pause, along with his multiple misreps, lack of/ weak case and the backtracking I caught him doing = scum.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Murder; n. the premeditated killing of one human being(in this case SO) by another(in this case Arcadic).
Uh, no, what I was saying is the fact that you came forward, taking responsibility for the kill, is not at this time submissible as evidence of alignment - since as I said above in my post to Iso, it could be a town or scum action.
The actual KILLING of Some One with no discussion, and no prior vocalization of suspicion on your part, now THAT was super scummy. Sure, but that doesn't give you the excuse to just swoop in and end it, especially since it was a player you hadn't commented on all game. Pfft, sure, but not in the way that you're going about it, accusing me of hypocrisy that isn't there, rather than debunking my arguments. Once again, no case, whatsoever, proving that once again, your vote on me is completely baseless, and you continue to refuse to justify it. I don't care that you're voting me, I don't find it threatening, what I care about is the fact that you are absolutely terrified of trying to make a case on me, since you know that I'm Town, and that you'll have to stretch ridiculously hard to make any points against me. So yeah, THAT'S why I'm pushing so hard to get you to make a case. If you were a townie, you'd have just unvoted by now rather than panicking and getting super defensive. I've caught scum with this before, and I can see that I've done it again here
Please, keep refusing to make a case on me, and pushing how scummy you find me without it - it's just making you look worse and worse. Yet again, ignoring the fact that I wasn't crying about the fact that SO is dead, or even the fact that he's Town. He was dead anyway, so it was going to happen. Once again, what I care about, is you pulling the trigger with no prior suspicions, no discussion, and no notice.
It's a lot easier to maintain a lie than you might think. I can imagine it would be pretty simple to vehemently deny that you were the person who pulled the trigger and say that someone else did it and is lying. It would cause confusion, mistrust, paranoia, and other such things. I feel like if Arcadic denied the kill as scum, it would benefit the scum more. As it is, it only benefits Arcadic to have claimed the kill. You follow? Scum have to function as a team, a single unit in order to make the most of their resources. Casting suspicion on other players is simply to the benefit of the mafia. Can you explain to me how it benefits them more for Arcadic to have claimed the kill?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Is it only a null tell to you because of the way everything was presented regarding it? Would you consider it a town tell if there had been deliberation about the kill prior to it?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Without solid evidence of motivation, and given two roughly equal options, speculation of motive is somewhat useless.
Given that there are benefits to both town and scum for coming out with it, it's not a point worth pursuing until we have more information.
But as I said, the fact that he DID kill Some One with zero notification, justification, or prior suspicion, looks scummy as hell. The fact that he took responsibility for it means nothing.
So let's lynch Tilde.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Lets just say it's null for just a minute. Lets just say the sake of arguement that he discussed his views and shot SO and blah, blah, blah.
Please explain to me what town would make false statements and mudsling against other players? Arcadic has made false acusations against me. He is riding on a weak case. The hypocrisy mostly drives me to drink (I found it to be a null tell). But his I can't believe he is this blantant about it.
I can't believe with everything I have seen from Arcadic that he is dumb.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Please dont' make me want to smack this game too. My head can only take so much before I break down and scream.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22