The Ice King, Latviareplacing Yanni - lynched Day 1
Puddlejumber, Cuba - Throat slit Night 1
Tezzeret12, Chinareplacing Dancing Mad - Modkilled Day 2
kpaca, Estonia - Modkilled Day 2
Johnthemaster, Poland - Modkilled Day 2
DesCoures, Canada - Modkilled Day 2
Azrael, Germany - Lynched Day 2
Zionite, Britain - Neck snapped Night 2
MandersHex, United States - Stabbed Night 2
Vezokpiraka, Italy - Vaporized Night 2
Deathjoey, Belarus - Lynched Day 3
AsianInvasion, Austria - Vaporized Night 3
Deaths_Vampire, Lithuania - Stabbed Night 3
Pale Mage, Russia - Lynched Day 4
Rules (Taken and modified from Dagger): Lynch Mechanic
1. Votes should be bolded for them to be counted. E.g. Vote: Dagger
2. Unvotes should be bolded for them to be counted E.g. Unvote: Dagger
3. You may Vote: No Lynch. A majority of these votes will result in the day going to the night phase without a lynch
4. Unvoting a player first before voting another player is not necessary, but is appreciated and will put you in my good book.
5. Lynch will occur with a simple majority of votes. This is irreversible; no amount of unvoting will stop a lynch if the player has reached the lynch threshold.
6. If a deadline is set, a lynch will occur on the player with the highest number of votes at the deadline. If there is a tie, a lynch will occur on the player who reaches that number of votes first. If there is no vote at all, No Lynch will occur.
Action Choices
1. There is a deadline for night action choices. Abide by it. Any player who misses, barring extenuating circumstances, will be counted as not submitting any action for that current phase.
2. Choices can be sent in advance if you won’t be available during the coming phase.
3. Any action choice is to be sent to me via PM, my preferred method of bookkeeping, and should have this game’s name in its title and the current phase listed. E.g. Hetalia Mafia Night 2
Upon the threat of replacement or modkill
1. Do not communicate, discuss, or even hint about this game with with people outside of this game thread at all, unless your role explicitly gives you permission. This applies even when you are dead, unless permitted by me.
2. Direct quoting or or paraphrasing too closely your role PM or any PM at all from me is not allowed. If you are uncertain if you're paraphrasing too closely, ask me beforehand The same threat holds if you ask other players to do the same.
3. Modifying or deleting your posts in the game thread is not allowed.
4. Posting in the game thread during the Night phase is not allowed.
5. If you are dead, posting in the game thread is not allowed. I will tolerate a “Bah” post on the condition there is no relevant information being conveyed to the living players, explicitly or implicitly.
6. You are expected to maintain a reasonable rate of posting, at least once every 72 hours. If you anticipate being unavailable for a period of time longer than that, please let me know ahead of time. After 24 hours without posting, you will be prodded. Failure to respond to the prod within 48 hours is grounds for replacement or modkill.
7. Crypto-claiming and its variants are not allowed.
Miscellaneous
1. Please consult with me if you have any doubt or query. Better be safe than wrong. I don’t bite… much.
2. Any request to be made of me in the game thread should be bolded.
3. Any request to be made of me in via PM should have this game’s name in its title.
4. Respect the Mod, the players, and the Forum Rules. This is not optional.
5. Have fun! This is not optional.
Community Chosen Abilities
1. At the start of each game day, three abilities will be posted in the game thread. These are the Community Chosen Abilities, whose targets are chosen by the players in the game collectively within the same day.
2. Throughout the day, you may vote for the player you would like each ability to be used on via PM. Only votes submitted through PM will be counted.
3. At the end of the day, each ability will be used on the player who received the most votes for it to be used on. This will take place during the same night.
4. The following day, the result of each ability will be posted in the opening post of the day.
5. These abilities may be the target of other abilities
It was a good afternoon to catch up on your reading. The sun was bright. The breeze was good. The chair was comfortable. There was no distraction.
You flipped another page.
A red rose dropped lightly onto your lap.
Alas, you spoke too soon.
You raised one of your eyebrows as high up as you could and snapped your eyes upward, ready to berate the annoyance when you paused at the sight before you.
France was there, the back of one hand held up to his forehead and the other holding another rose. Where the hell did he get all those roses anyway?
There was an aggrieved look on his face as he pouted, before reaching forward to clasp both your hands with both of his, somehow managing to squeeze the rose in between the tangle of hands. Your book cluttered noisily onto the ground in despairing defeat.
"Oh, it is tragic. Tragic, really. A world meeting 'as been called, and we 'ave to attend."
Your eyes did a rollover in irritation. Another meeting. Equally useless as the previous, no doubt. And it was a meeting called by France, of all people. You gazed at your fallen book mournfully.
"Which world-shattering issue is it this time?"
A multitude of excuses marched across your mind, each begging to be said.
"It ees awful! I 'ave heard zat zere ees a group of coutries warking to ovarthrow us!"
That was... bad. Nobody was supposed to find out for another few months. A single misstep at this point would cause all that careful planning to go down the drain.
Unless... the entire thing would have to be moved up. True, it was very risky, but one must seize the chance whenever an opportunity came a knocking. The plan would have to be put in motion during the world meeting.
"Very well then. We shall go together, you and I."
Together with the dagger you reserved just for him.
Anxiously, you look at the clock. You had had barely enough time to alert your cohorts and formulate a plan. Now all you needed to do was wait. It wouldn't be long before France started the meeting, then you could make your move.
"Attention everyone," he shouts. Why couldn't he just get a microphone like someone normal? "A group of countries has formed against us! Zay were only deescovered recently, but zay were likely warking together long before zat. We don't yet know who zay are, but zay are likely at zis very meeting. Zerefore, I 'ave changed our usual voting process to allow us to take measures against those zat we believe are ze traitars. Ve can now vote to use our technology against each other. We can only ready a few-"
He cuts off suddenly as the lights go out. Finally, the moment is at hand. You quickly run up to the stage with him, removing your dagger as you run. He only hears you as you're right behind him. As he turns around, you plunge the dagger directly into his chest. By the time he realizes, you are already half way back to your seat. As the lights come back on, you are able to seamlessly blend in with the rest of the confusion. However, looking up at the video screen, you realize France was quite a bit smarter than he acted. Across the screen were the instructions on how to vote to protect, confuse, and research somebody. In addition, there were instructions on how to vote to kill others. This might not go as smoothly as you had hoped...
It is now day 1. With 20 alive, it is 11 to lynch
Community abilities for today are:
Protect – The chosen person will be unable to be killed the next night
Redirect – Vote for two targets. The first will use any ability they may have the following night on the second.
Role cop – The chosen person's abilities, if any, will be revealed
Sample town role PM:
Country: France
Birthday: July 14th
Flavor: You were once a great and powerful nation, back when you had a girl running your country. And after the Hundred years war you had Napolean, remember him? Then England was able to defeat him, and you have never been a powerful country since. That isn't to say you don't still win. In the war of Austrian succesion, you joined up with Prussia, and he won, so that means you won too, right? Anyway, the fact that you really are tho strongest isn't important. What's important now is that you know about the group trying to overthrow everyore. You were able to call the world conference, and work with some other countries to change the voting system. You were going to lead the discussion, but then you were killed, which really sucks. However, your new systems of voting remains, which means that the other countries can still work everything out, even without your expert leadership.
Ability: You created the voting systems. This gives everybody a vote on a country to...eliminate. In addition, you helped create a system of putting up unique pieces of technology to use to fight the conspirators for vote. Sadly, you did not live to use it, as you were killed before the game started.
Win Condition: You win when all traitors have been eliminated.
Gonna delete me again hater? I'm just toying with you Giga, it's ok. /confirm
FIRST!... AGAIN!
I think you got mad at me for doing this last time so maybe I should do it quietly... vote:Gigas1
Currently meditating on what we should do about the community chosen abilities (hereby dubbed CC abilities). The obvious problem is that since it's private, if we're all picking different people, the scum may coordinate their votes and easily manipulate who gets chosen. I didn't really read the game, but I seem to recall something similar happening in Camp Tachronic (or whatever it was called)? But on the other hand of course, stuff like protects are not very useful when done publicly.
I'm thinking the rolecop we should vote on publicly. Not sure what to do about the other ones. I'll probably figure out what I think the best plan is by later today/tonight. Need to mull it over some more.
Oh, and Vote: MandersHex -- that unicorn gives me nightmares.
1) Liars will not be tolarated
2) I will only vote with the intention to kill
3) I disagree with you DM, about not making the Protect vote public. What is the point of a Doc protect, to keep a player from dying or to cause a kill to be wasted? It's primary purpose is to keep the player from being killed. Causing a wasted NK is just a bonus. By making the doc protect vote public, we ensure that the player we want to survive survives
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
I think we should agree to a 2/3 majority on actions. It would prevent the scum from being able to manipulate a majority - at least early in the game. If it takes too long, then we can default to the majority if there's no way to reach a supermajority.
3) I disagree with you DM, about not making the Protect vote public. What is the point of a Doc protect, to keep a player from dying or to cause a kill to be wasted? It's primary purpose is to keep the player from being killed. Causing a wasted NK is just a bonus. By making the doc protect vote public, we ensure that the player we want to survive survives
We could vote on a small group of people and keep the result secret.
No to mass claim. I really think transparancy in our community actions and personal actions can only hurt us.
I think we should agree to a 2/3 majority on actions. It would prevent the scum from being able to manipulate a majority - at least early in the game. If it takes too long, then we can default to the majority if there's no way to reach a supermajority.We could vote on a small group of people and keep the result secret.
No to mass claim. I really think transparancy in our community actions and personal actions can only hurt us.
Agreed, a 2/3 majority when voting for anything is fine with me.
Massclaim could be okay, I think a softclaim would be much better.
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Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
scumbag
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I'm usually okay with a mass claim. Why are you okay with one in this game particularly, atl?
Also, I'm just going this out now: my role requires a certain type of potentially scummy behavior, which I'm sure will become apparent over time. I can imagine a small benefit to the town in not claiming exactly what it is at the moment, but I don't want to eventually be wagoned for it without at least being able to point to a disclaimer somewhere. So this is that.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
1) Liars will not be tolarated
2) I will only vote with the intention to kill
3) I disagree with you DM, about not making the Protect vote public. What is the point of a Doc protect, to keep a player from dying or to cause a kill to be wasted? It's primary purpose is to keep the player from being killed. Causing a wasted NK is just a bonus. By making the doc protect vote public, we ensure that the player we want to survive survives
I disagree. Keeping a specific player alive is rarely relevant unless you have confirmed roles that you want around, or confirmed town that you want to be able to trust in terms of analysis and opinion. We will have neither in the early game. I think that in the early game, preventing an NK, and thus keeping the town-scum ratio high, is the primary purpose of doc protects.
I dislike mass claims in the general case. Scum can leverage the information more effectively than town can. Unless someone can provide a good explanation for why this game would be different, I am against a mass claim.
Puddlejumper: Really? Do you expect us to forgive or ignore scummy behavior just because you warned us you'll be scummy in some unspecified way? I'm having a hard time understanding why you would post that either as town (why get preemptively defensive?) or as scum (why draw attention to yourself?)
I disagree. Keeping a specific player alive is rarely relevant unless you have confirmed roles that you want around, or confirmed town that you want to be able to trust in terms of analysis and opinion. We will have neither in the early game. I think that in the early game, preventing an NK, and thus keeping the town-scum ratio high, is the primary purpose of doc protects.
Docs don't often get to actually prevent NKs. The real power of the doc protect is in the threat of the protection psyching the scum into making subpar decisions with their NK. If the major benefit of a doc role was in actually preventing a kill, it would be a vastly less useful role than it is.
Scum can leverage the information more effectively than town can.
People say this all the time, but there's no backup for it. Scum might be able to leverage the information better, but not by virtue of being scum. Mass claiming, in theory, has no benefit to the scum at all; it's only by use of abilities that such leverage could exist, and we have no special reason to think that they might have such abilities. On the other hand, the town is at least equally likely to have such abilities, and they get to force the scum to occasionally falseclaim.
Could it hurt the town? Sure. Do we have any reason to think it'd be more likely than not to hurt the town? No, not at all.
Puddlejumper: Really? Do you expect us to forgive or ignore scummy behavior just because you warned us you'll be scummy in some unspecified way? I'm having a hard time understanding why you would post that either as town (why get preemptively defensive?) or as scum (why draw attention to yourself?)
I don't plan to get defensive at all. I just like to foresee potential problems and do what I can do diffuse them. It also aids in starting useful discussion.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
Docs don't often get to actually prevent NKs. The real power of the doc protect is in the threat of the protection psyching the scum into making subpar decisions with their NK. If the major benefit of a doc role was in actually preventing a kill, it would be a vastly less useful role than it is.
Let me put it this way: in a normal game, suppose you know you have a doc, but you don't know who it is. Would it make sense for everyone to publicly vote on who to protect - in the early game, when you don't know who your cops, vigs, etc. are?
I can agree that psyching is important, I'm just not sure to what extent we can achieve that if our votes are public.
People say this all the time, but there's no backup for it. Scum might be able to leverage the information better, but not by virtue of being scum. Mass claiming, in theory, has no benefit to the scum at all; it's only by use of abilities that such leverage could exist, and we have no special reason to think that they might have such abilities.
The leverage is in the scum's information advantage, not their abilities. We don't know who to trust, so we have to eye every claim with suspicion. They know exactly who is telling the truth and who is lying, and thus they can start targeting people with powerful roles, and possibly using the town's natural suspicion to get mislynches started on townies with unusual claims. That's the theory behind why I dislike mass claims. I haven't actually been in a game where a mass claim happened, so if you have practical evidence that contradicts this theory, I'd like to hear it. Can you point to a game where a mass claim was successful, in the sense that it gave the town an advantage over the scum?
Oh noes! Malware has struck my computer. Sorry if I don't post for an extended period of time (1-2 days, max)
On the topic of this massclaim thing.
I dunno about it. It seems like it could be useful, but I don't want to give scum powerroles.
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Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
scumbag
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Would it make sense for everyone to publicly vote on who to protect - in the early game, when you don't know who your cops, vigs, etc. are?
No, it wouldn't, you are correct. However, in this game, the scum get to vote on how the ability gets used without revealing said votes. If we don't coordinate, the scum may very well be able to just aim the protect at someone irrelevant and not have to worry about it at all, so the point is kind of moot.
The leverage is in the scum's information advantage, not their abilities. We don't know who to trust, so we have to eye every claim with suspicion. They know exactly who is telling the truth and who is lying, and thus they can start targeting people with powerful roles, and possibly using the town's natural suspicion to get mislynches started on townies with unusual claims. That's the theory behind why I dislike mass claims. I haven't actually been in a game where a mass claim happened, so if you have practical evidence that contradicts this theory, I'd like to hear it. Can you point to a game where a mass claim was successful, in the sense that it gave the town an advantage over the scum?
I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about a massclaim of rolenames? I agree that massclaiming actual abilities is a terrible idea, definitely, but unless the terminology has changed much since I played last, I don't think that's what's really being considered.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about a massclaim of rolenames? I agree that massclaiming actual abilities is a terrible idea, definitely, but unless the terminology has changed much since I played last, I don't think that's what's really being considered.
Mass-claim = claim name and abilities. Name-claim = clam name.
I'm usually okay with a mass claim. Why are you okay with one in this game particularly, atl?
I'm okay with a mass-claim in this game because the major downside of a mass-claim is the laying out of the full setup for the mafia. The only reason why that's different in this game is the introduction of the shared abilities mechanic. We do not lay out the entire power of the town with a mass-claim because we still have those shared abilities in the wings, and as long as we coordinate their target, the mafia will not be able to control them.
Massclaim could be okay, I think a softclaim would be much better.
This brings me to my question for Puddlejumper and Yanni: what would you expect to gain from a name-claim in this situation vs. a mass-claim which does have an actual benefit?
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
Mass-claim = claim name and abilities. Name-claim = clam name.
Okay, in that case, massclaiming is a horrible idea and shouldn't be considered under any circumstances. Mass ability claims usually result in the game essentially becoming all-vanilla. All abilities are fully predictable and largely avoidable for the scum. That is way too much of a cost to the town to justify any kind of claim.
The community abilities do nothing to hinder them in this.
A name claim can be a decent play because scum are often given rolenames that imply their alignment, and forcing them to lie results in the potential for counterclaims and discovery through abilities. Even in cases where rolenames don't indicate alignment, it increases the chances that a scum who is forced to claim from pressure will have a hard time coming up with an ability claim that matches his rolename convincingly. Mods do generally make an effort to match up flavor to abilities to some degree, and scum can have a hard time imitating that on the fly.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
I normally dislike day 1 massclaims, mainly because it makes it a less enjoyable game to play. Part of mafia is guarding the information you have and knowing when to reveal it, and just laying it out in the beginning makes the game focus more on coordinating night actions rather than focusing on behavior. That said, my ability is going to come out soon enough anyway (plus I'm not sure how I should use it), and the community abilities (at least today's) are much more useful with a mass claim, so I wouldn't be against it.
I can see benefits to a nameclaim over a massclaim, but I'll let Puddlejumper/Yanni answer.
I'm pretty sure that we're going to need to agree on who to use the abilities on publicly (even things that we would normally want to keep secret, like protect), otherwise scum will just coordinate and use it on whoever they want. There won't be any obvious protect targets other than good analysts (unless we mass claim), but at least we'll keep that analyst alive.
I feel opposed to the name claim, and have a general bias against the mass claim but don't have the experience to really get into the argument, so I won't. I vote neutral on that one.
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A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Okay, in that case, massclaiming is a horrible idea and shouldn't be considered under any circumstances. Mass ability claims usually result in the game essentially becoming all-vanilla. All abilities are fully predictable and largely avoidable for the scum. That is way too much of a cost to the town to justify any kind of claim.
How is knowledge of what abilities are out there make the game fully predictable? Let's say we have a doctor, for example. Does the knowledge that there's a doctor change mafia's behavior any?
The community abilities do nothing to hinder them in this.
Considering that they aren't players that can be killed, I'm failing to see why they don't. Please explain.
A name claim can be a decent play because scum are often given rolenames that imply their alignment, and forcing them to lie results in the potential for counterclaims and discovery through abilities.
I see no reason a scum player would lie about their role-name in this game. Give me one possible role name that a scum would want to false claim in this game.
Even in cases where rolenames don't indicate alignment, it increases the chances that a scum who is forced to claim from pressure will have a hard time coming up with an ability claim that matches his rolename convincingly. Mods do generally make an effort to match up flavor to abilities to some degree, and scum can have a hard time imitating that on the fly.
So what's the problem with a mass-claim again? Since if we're trying to put pressure on scum for a plausible claim as soon as possible, why not now?
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Really, the only reason I see you claiming for not being for a mass-claim is that it makes the game predictable. So please, explain how this is so. Otherwise, nothing else you said is an argument against a mass-claim.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
Normally, I would agree 100% with you with regards to the massclaim Puddlejumper. The thing with the community abilities is that, in this game, the power is split between the community abilities and the roles in the game. For example, tonight, if we massclaimed and someone claimed a power role, we could protect him/her. If someone claimed an unconfirmable role (that could possibly be hiding a scummy role like a roleblocker or something), we can rolecop him, and have a decent chance of catching scum.
I'm definitely not dead set on the mass-claim (as I said, I don't really like playing the "coordinate your actions" game as much), and there some definite downsides, but there are definite benefits too (especially given my role, and apparently AI's).
Quote from IndominableBug »
I feel opposed to the name claim, and have a general bias against the mass claim but don't have the experience to really get into the argument, so I won't. I vote neutral on that one.
Er, how could you have a general bias against massclaims, but not the experience? If you mean that you haven't played very many games, I feel like that's not really true (I swear I've seen you in quite a few games).
This setup heavily favors scum without a mass-claim, especially if they have Daytalk. They will all vote for the same players for the Community Abilities and the town won't have enough coordination to effectively vote. This seems like a game where we are expected to mass-claim to have a fighting chance in terms of making the most efficient use of our resources.
This setup heavily favors scum without a mass-claim, especially if they have Daytalk. They will all vote for the same players for the Community Abilities and the town won't have enough coordination to effectively vote. This seems like a game where we are expected to mass-claim to have a fighting chance in terms of making the most efficient use of our resources.
Thanks, AI. It's nice to know that you're town.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
Er, how could you have a general bias against massclaims, but not the experience? If you mean that you haven't played very many games, I feel like that's not really true (I swear I've seen you in quite a few games).
I keep hearing that they're a bad choice, but I think I've only been involved in 1. Therefore I don't feel I have the experience with them that I should in order to have a valid opinion in the argument.
As far as game experience, I believe this is number 7 for me, 4 completed 3 in progress. Maybe I should start keeping track.
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A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
I am at this point in favor of a mass claim. Under the circumstances it seems very helpful.
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The ability to be able to use Community chosen abilities more effectively.
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How is knowledge of what abilities are out there make the game fully predictable? Let's say we have a doctor, for example. Does the knowledge that there's a doctor change mafia's behavior any?
Yes, it does. I think that kinda proves my point more than yours, though.
Considering that they aren't players that can be killed, I'm failing to see why they don't. Please explain.
Because the scum will know who they affect. The scum will not be remotely stymied vs. a doc protect on a target they are aware of, and NO ONE is going to be surprised into hurting their own side with a redirection they can see coming.
The role cop is the only one of the abilities which actually matters for anything more than positioning's sake, and I guarantee you it isn't worth sacrificing ALL of the town's hidden information.
I see no reason a scum player would lie about their role-name in this game. Give me one possible role name that a scum would want to false claim in this game.
Not having seen the series other than just the first couple episodes, it'd be hard to say. However, there is a decent chance that even if no particular rolename is inherently scummy, that some combination of rolenames would be (a la the ally powers or something). I would be shocked if the roles that were selected as scum truly had zero quantifiable relationship to each other in the series.
So what's the problem with a mass-claim again? Since if we're trying to put pressure on scum for a plausible claim as soon as possible, why not now?
Because there's a cost associated with getting everyone to claim that doesn't come from just claiming names. That's why. You think the concept of a softclaim just came up from nowhere? Of course not. Claiming information that is probably harmless for the scum to know in order to lock in claims as needed down the line costs the town almost nothing. Claiming information that is extremely harmful for the scum to know in order to lock in claims earlier costs the town a very great deal.
Otherwise, nothing else you said is an argument against a mass-claim.
Yes, actually they are. The fact that you apparently disagree doesn't make them not arguments. Don't dismiss them on everyone else's behalf just because you're choosing to overlook the obvious.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
The ability to be able to use Community chosen abilities more effectively.
This is a bullcrap reason. Only one of the community abilities we have today are going to be better used with everyone's roles out in the open. The rolecop has the potential to catch someone in a lie, but that's such a waste of everyone else's abilities that it's not worth the effort. By a lot.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
I am under the assumption that a mass claim is a bad idea for this game. Given my own role I must only expect other roles to be similar to my role. And these roles work well without a mass claim. So I must object to a mass claim.
I disagree. Keeping a specific player alive is rarely relevant unless you have confirmed roles that you want around, or confirmed town that you want to be able to trust in terms of analysis and opinion. We will have neither in the early game. I think that in the early game, preventing an NK, and thus keeping the town-scum ratio high, is the primary purpose of doc protects.
Vote Archonoid.
Quote from Archonoid »
I dislike mass claims in the general case. Scum can leverage the information more effectively than town can. Unless someone can provide a good explanation for why this game would be different, I am against a mass claim.
Vote Archonoid.
Quote from Archonoid »
Puddlejumper: Really? Do you expect us to forgive or ignore scummy behavior just because you warned us you'll be scummy in some unspecified way? I'm having a hard time understanding why you would post that either as town (why get preemptively defensive?) or as scum (why draw attention to yourself?)
I'm usually okay with a mass claim. Why are you okay with one in this game particularly, atl?
Also, I'm just going this out now: my role requires a certain type of potentially scummy behavior, which I'm sure will become apparent over time. I can imagine a small benefit to the town in not claiming exactly what it is at the moment, but I don't want to eventually be wagoned for it without at least being able to point to a disclaimer somewhere. So this is that.
Hmm.
Quote from Atlseal »
This is the first game where I'm actually okay saying "yes" to such a proposal.
This setup heavily favors scum without a mass-claim, especially if they have Daytalk. They will all vote for the same players for the Community Abilities and the town won't have enough coordination to effectively vote. This seems like a game where we are expected to mass-claim to have a fighting chance in terms of making the most efficient use of our resources.
I'm glad you're thinking through what the scum players' strategy will be - I think?
Quote from Yanni »
Oh noes! Malware has struck my computer. Sorry if I don't post for an extended period of time (1-2 days, max)
On the topic of this massclaim thing.
I dunno about it. It seems like it could be useful, but I don't want to give scum powerroles.
+Scum
Quote from Asianinvasion »
I am for a mass-claim. My ability is awesome after a mass-claim.
Is not false-claiming.
Quote from Ibug »
Wow, no rvs. Okay, chaucers.
I hate RVS.
Quote from Ibug »
I feel opposed to the name claim, and have a general bias against the mass claim but don't have the experience to really get into the argument, so I won't. I vote neutral on that one.
Less excuses, more thinking for yourself please.
@Puddlejumper - Enough theory: top two candidates for town and scum, please, and why. I haven't seen you read another player this entire game. Step it up.
Yes, it does. I think that kinda proves my point more than yours, though.
I don't see how it does. Mafia is going to try to play around disruption no matter what. It would be foolish not to.
Because the scum will know who they affect. The scum will not be remotely stymied vs. a doc protect on a target they are aware of
Instead of a doc protect that has a much higher chance of being directed by the mafia and such won't even protect a player we want?
, and NO ONE is going to be surprised into hurting their own side with a redirection they can see coming.
Except the player at the start of redirection is forced to use their ability.
Not having seen the series other than just the first couple episodes, it'd be hard to say.
Didn't know it was a series. Thanks for the heads-up.
However, there is a decent chance that even if no particular rolename is inherently scummy, that some combination of rolenames would be (a la the ally powers or something). I would be shocked if the roles that were selected as scum truly had zero quantifiable relationship to each other in the series.
Whee mod-gaming coming up, but what you are proposing is that Gigas1 would have had to design this game without the possibility of a D1 name-claim in mind.
Claiming information that is probably harmless for the scum to know in order to lock in claims as needed down the line costs the town almost nothing. Claiming information that is extremely harmful for the scum to know in order to lock in claims earlier costs the town a very great deal.
Claiming names does nothing but lock in names. Considering it's very easy to derive abilities however you want for any given role, it means absolutely nothing. If you want to name-claim, there is no point.
Yes, actually they are. The fact that you apparently disagree doesn't make them not arguments. Don't dismiss them on everyone else's behalf just because you're choosing to overlook the obvious.
Let's look at the post and break it down if you disagree:
Okay, in that case, massclaiming is a horrible idea and shouldn't be considered under any circumstances. Mass ability claims usually result in the game essentially becoming all-vanilla. All abilities are fully predictable and largely avoidable for the scum. That is way too much of a cost to the town to justify any kind of claim.
"Night actions become predictable" Let's just say you and I differ greatly on this point.
Even in cases where rolenames don't indicate alignment
Given that it's common for mods to avoid doing all the obvious for just this reason, I believe this is a given.
, it increases the chances that a scum who is forced to claim from pressure will have a hard time coming up with an ability claim that matches his rolename convincingly. Mods do generally make an effort to match up flavor to abilities to some degree, and scum can have a hard time imitating that on the fly.
You and I agree on that, but this supports a pro full-claim stance.
There weren't any other arguments in that post.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
I disagree. Keeping a specific player alive is rarely relevant unless you have confirmed roles that you want around, or confirmed town that you want to be able to trust in terms of analysis and opinion. We will have neither in the early game. I think that in the early game, preventing an NK, and thus keeping the town-scum ratio high, is the primary purpose of doc protects.
I dislike mass claims in the general case. Scum can leverage the information more effectively than town can. Unless someone can provide a good explanation for why this game would be different, I am against a mass claim.
Puddlejumper: Really? Do you expect us to forgive or ignore scummy behavior just because you warned us you'll be scummy in some unspecified way? I'm having a hard time understanding why you would post that either as town (why get preemptively defensive?) or as scum (why draw attention to yourself?)
Oh noes! Malware has struck my computer. Sorry if I don't post for an extended period of time (1-2 days, max)
On the topic of this massclaim thing.
I dunno about it. It seems like it could be useful, but I don't want to give scum powerroles.
@Puddlejumper - Enough theory: top two candidates for town and scum, please, and why. I haven't seen you read another player this entire game. Step it up.
I have no input that it would be productive to give at this time.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
I do, however, think it's worthwhile to try to prevent the terrible concept of a massclaim from getting any real traction, so I will keep up my opposition to that idea.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
I don't see how it does. Mafia is going to try to play around disruption no matter what. It would be foolish not to.
But for the mafia to know exactly what kind of disruption they're facing makes playing it around it far, far too easy.
Instead of a doc protect that has a much higher chance of being directed by the mafia and such won't even protect a player we want?
I don't remember saying anywhere that we shouldn't coordinate the community abilities. In fact, I distinctly remember saying the opposite. But that hardly requires, or even has anything to do with, massclaiming.
Except the player at the start of redirection is forced to use their ability.
Okay, so...it's useful in the case that someone claims vig, and nowhere else, then? That's so much better...
Whee mod-gaming coming up, but what you are proposing is that Gigas1 would have had to design this game without the possibility of a D1 name-claim in mind.
I'm really not. He could have as easily given them falseclaims, or any number of other ways to deal with this. Assuming that randomizing the scum names is the only way this could work is naive.
Claiming names does nothing but lock in names. Considering it's very easy to derive abilities however you want for any given role, it means absolutely nothing. If you want to name-claim, there is no point.
It is very easy for some people, with some countries, I'm sure. Not so easy for everyone. Locking in claims at all isn't necessarily going to catch anyone; we just assume that some people are less capable of BSing than others.
Wit's End is the PERFECT answer to your opponent's Monomania however.
Just hold on to your Wit's End when they Monomania, so you can Wit's End them on your next turn!!!
I think this is fairly reminiscent of the "Jace Battles" we have seen in past standards.. My guess is we will soon witness the great Monomania-Wit's End battles.
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Dead Players:
Lynch Mechanic
1. Votes should be bolded for them to be counted. E.g. Vote: Dagger
2. Unvotes should be bolded for them to be counted E.g. Unvote: Dagger
3. You may Vote: No Lynch. A majority of these votes will result in the day going to the night phase without a lynch
4. Unvoting a player first before voting another player is not necessary, but is appreciated and will put you in my good book.
5. Lynch will occur with a simple majority of votes. This is irreversible; no amount of unvoting will stop a lynch if the player has reached the lynch threshold.
6. If a deadline is set, a lynch will occur on the player with the highest number of votes at the deadline. If there is a tie, a lynch will occur on the player who reaches that number of votes first. If there is no vote at all, No Lynch will occur.
Action Choices
1. There is a deadline for night action choices. Abide by it. Any player who misses, barring extenuating circumstances, will be counted as not submitting any action for that current phase.
2. Choices can be sent in advance if you won’t be available during the coming phase.
3. Any action choice is to be sent to me via PM, my preferred method of bookkeeping, and should have this game’s name in its title and the current phase listed. E.g. Hetalia Mafia Night 2
Upon the threat of replacement or modkill
1. Do not communicate, discuss, or even hint about this game with with people outside of this game thread at all, unless your role explicitly gives you permission. This applies even when you are dead, unless permitted by me.
2. Direct quoting or or paraphrasing too closely your role PM or any PM at all from me is not allowed. If you are uncertain if you're paraphrasing too closely, ask me beforehand The same threat holds if you ask other players to do the same.
3. Modifying or deleting your posts in the game thread is not allowed.
4. Posting in the game thread during the Night phase is not allowed.
5. If you are dead, posting in the game thread is not allowed. I will tolerate a “Bah” post on the condition there is no relevant information being conveyed to the living players, explicitly or implicitly.
6. You are expected to maintain a reasonable rate of posting, at least once every 72 hours. If you anticipate being unavailable for a period of time longer than that, please let me know ahead of time. After 24 hours without posting, you will be prodded. Failure to respond to the prod within 48 hours is grounds for replacement or modkill.
7. Crypto-claiming and its variants are not allowed.
Miscellaneous
1. Please consult with me if you have any doubt or query. Better be safe than wrong. I don’t bite… much.
2. Any request to be made of me in the game thread should be bolded.
3. Any request to be made of me in via PM should have this game’s name in its title.
4. Respect the Mod, the players, and the Forum Rules. This is not optional.
5. Have fun! This is not optional.
Community Chosen Abilities
1. At the start of each game day, three abilities will be posted in the game thread. These are the Community Chosen Abilities, whose targets are chosen by the players in the game collectively within the same day.
2. Throughout the day, you may vote for the player you would like each ability to be used on via PM. Only votes submitted through PM will be counted.
3. At the end of the day, each ability will be used on the player who received the most votes for it to be used on. This will take place during the same night.
4. The following day, the result of each ability will be posted in the opening post of the day.
5. These abilities may be the target of other abilities
You flipped another page.
A red rose dropped lightly onto your lap.
Alas, you spoke too soon.
You raised one of your eyebrows as high up as you could and snapped your eyes upward, ready to berate the annoyance when you paused at the sight before you.
France was there, the back of one hand held up to his forehead and the other holding another rose. Where the hell did he get all those roses anyway?
There was an aggrieved look on his face as he pouted, before reaching forward to clasp both your hands with both of his, somehow managing to squeeze the rose in between the tangle of hands. Your book cluttered noisily onto the ground in despairing defeat.
"Oh, it is tragic. Tragic, really. A world meeting 'as been called, and we 'ave to attend."
Your eyes did a rollover in irritation. Another meeting. Equally useless as the previous, no doubt. And it was a meeting called by France, of all people. You gazed at your fallen book mournfully.
"Which world-shattering issue is it this time?"
A multitude of excuses marched across your mind, each begging to be said.
"It ees awful! I 'ave heard zat zere ees a group of coutries warking to ovarthrow us!"
That was... bad. Nobody was supposed to find out for another few months. A single misstep at this point would cause all that careful planning to go down the drain.
Unless... the entire thing would have to be moved up. True, it was very risky, but one must seize the chance whenever an opportunity came a knocking. The plan would have to be put in motion during the world meeting.
"Very well then. We shall go together, you and I."
Together with the dagger you reserved just for him.
Anxiously, you look at the clock. You had had barely enough time to alert your cohorts and formulate a plan. Now all you needed to do was wait. It wouldn't be long before France started the meeting, then you could make your move.
"Attention everyone," he shouts. Why couldn't he just get a microphone like someone normal? "A group of countries has formed against us! Zay were only deescovered recently, but zay were likely warking together long before zat. We don't yet know who zay are, but zay are likely at zis very meeting. Zerefore, I 'ave changed our usual voting process to allow us to take measures against those zat we believe are ze traitars. Ve can now vote to use our technology against each other. We can only ready a few-"
He cuts off suddenly as the lights go out. Finally, the moment is at hand. You quickly run up to the stage with him, removing your dagger as you run. He only hears you as you're right behind him. As he turns around, you plunge the dagger directly into his chest. By the time he realizes, you are already half way back to your seat. As the lights come back on, you are able to seamlessly blend in with the rest of the confusion. However, looking up at the video screen, you realize France was quite a bit smarter than he acted. Across the screen were the instructions on how to vote to protect, confuse, and research somebody. In addition, there were instructions on how to vote to kill others. This might not go as smoothly as you had hoped...
It is now day 1. With 20 alive, it is 11 to lynch
Community abilities for today are:
Protect – The chosen person will be unable to be killed the next night
Redirect – Vote for two targets. The first will use any ability they may have the following night on the second.
Role cop – The chosen person's abilities, if any, will be revealed
Sample town role PM:
Birthday: July 14th
Flavor: You were once a great and powerful nation, back when you had a girl running your country. And after the Hundred years war you had Napolean, remember him? Then England was able to defeat him, and you have never been a powerful country since. That isn't to say you don't still win. In the war of Austrian succesion, you joined up with Prussia, and he won, so that means you won too, right? Anyway, the fact that you really are tho strongest isn't important. What's important now is that you know about the group trying to overthrow everyore. You were able to call the world conference, and work with some other countries to change the voting system. You were going to lead the discussion, but then you were killed, which really sucks. However, your new systems of voting remains, which means that the other countries can still work everything out, even without your expert leadership.
Ability: You created the voting systems. This gives everybody a vote on a country to...eliminate. In addition, you helped create a system of putting up unique pieces of technology to use to fight the conspirators for vote. Sadly, you did not live to use it, as you were killed before the game started.
Win Condition: You win when all traitors have been eliminated.
/confirm
FIRST!... AGAIN!
I think you got mad at me for doing this last time so maybe I should do it quietly...
vote:Gigas1
GBInfectBG
Do not Click
My Trade Thread!
ok gigas1. (puts head down in shame)
GBInfectBG
Do not Click
My Trade Thread!
Indeed
Vote: Pale Mage cause I so wanted to kill you in Amistaria
FYI: I'm away from home until Tuesday, so I will have limited access until then.
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I'm thinking the rolecop we should vote on publicly. Not sure what to do about the other ones. I'll probably figure out what I think the best plan is by later today/tonight. Need to mull it over some more.
Oh, and Vote: MandersHex -- that unicorn gives me nightmares.
2) I will only vote with the intention to kill
3) I disagree with you DM, about not making the Protect vote public. What is the point of a Doc protect, to keep a player from dying or to cause a kill to be wasted? It's primary purpose is to keep the player from being killed. Causing a wasted NK is just a bonus. By making the doc protect vote public, we ensure that the player we want to survive survives
scumbag
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This is the first game where I'm actually okay saying "yes" to such a proposal.
No to mass claim. I really think transparancy in our community actions and personal actions can only hurt us.
Who said anything about transparancy in personal actions?
<3
The redirect is such a powerful ability... If we could find a scum they would have to kill whoever we had them target...
Agreed, a 2/3 majority when voting for anything is fine with me.
Massclaim could be okay, I think a softclaim would be much better.
scumbag
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Also, I'm just going this out now: my role requires a certain type of potentially scummy behavior, which I'm sure will become apparent over time. I can imagine a small benefit to the town in not claiming exactly what it is at the moment, but I don't want to eventually be wagoned for it without at least being able to point to a disclaimer somewhere. So this is that.
I disagree. Keeping a specific player alive is rarely relevant unless you have confirmed roles that you want around, or confirmed town that you want to be able to trust in terms of analysis and opinion. We will have neither in the early game. I think that in the early game, preventing an NK, and thus keeping the town-scum ratio high, is the primary purpose of doc protects.
I dislike mass claims in the general case. Scum can leverage the information more effectively than town can. Unless someone can provide a good explanation for why this game would be different, I am against a mass claim.
Puddlejumper: Really? Do you expect us to forgive or ignore scummy behavior just because you warned us you'll be scummy in some unspecified way? I'm having a hard time understanding why you would post that either as town (why get preemptively defensive?) or as scum (why draw attention to yourself?)
Docs don't often get to actually prevent NKs. The real power of the doc protect is in the threat of the protection psyching the scum into making subpar decisions with their NK. If the major benefit of a doc role was in actually preventing a kill, it would be a vastly less useful role than it is.
People say this all the time, but there's no backup for it. Scum might be able to leverage the information better, but not by virtue of being scum. Mass claiming, in theory, has no benefit to the scum at all; it's only by use of abilities that such leverage could exist, and we have no special reason to think that they might have such abilities. On the other hand, the town is at least equally likely to have such abilities, and they get to force the scum to occasionally falseclaim.
Could it hurt the town? Sure. Do we have any reason to think it'd be more likely than not to hurt the town? No, not at all.
I don't plan to get defensive at all. I just like to foresee potential problems and do what I can do diffuse them. It also aids in starting useful discussion.
I can agree that psyching is important, I'm just not sure to what extent we can achieve that if our votes are public. The leverage is in the scum's information advantage, not their abilities. We don't know who to trust, so we have to eye every claim with suspicion. They know exactly who is telling the truth and who is lying, and thus they can start targeting people with powerful roles, and possibly using the town's natural suspicion to get mislynches started on townies with unusual claims. That's the theory behind why I dislike mass claims. I haven't actually been in a game where a mass claim happened, so if you have practical evidence that contradicts this theory, I'd like to hear it. Can you point to a game where a mass claim was successful, in the sense that it gave the town an advantage over the scum?
On the topic of this massclaim thing.
I dunno about it. It seems like it could be useful, but I don't want to give scum powerroles.
scumbag
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No, it wouldn't, you are correct. However, in this game, the scum get to vote on how the ability gets used without revealing said votes. If we don't coordinate, the scum may very well be able to just aim the protect at someone irrelevant and not have to worry about it at all, so the point is kind of moot.
I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about a massclaim of rolenames? I agree that massclaiming actual abilities is a terrible idea, definitely, but unless the terminology has changed much since I played last, I don't think that's what's really being considered.
Mass-claim = claim name and abilities. Name-claim = clam name.
I'm okay with a mass-claim in this game because the major downside of a mass-claim is the laying out of the full setup for the mafia. The only reason why that's different in this game is the introduction of the shared abilities mechanic. We do not lay out the entire power of the town with a mass-claim because we still have those shared abilities in the wings, and as long as we coordinate their target, the mafia will not be able to control them.
This brings me to my question for Puddlejumper and Yanni: what would you expect to gain from a name-claim in this situation vs. a mass-claim which does have an actual benefit?
Okay, in that case, massclaiming is a horrible idea and shouldn't be considered under any circumstances. Mass ability claims usually result in the game essentially becoming all-vanilla. All abilities are fully predictable and largely avoidable for the scum. That is way too much of a cost to the town to justify any kind of claim.
The community abilities do nothing to hinder them in this.
A name claim can be a decent play because scum are often given rolenames that imply their alignment, and forcing them to lie results in the potential for counterclaims and discovery through abilities. Even in cases where rolenames don't indicate alignment, it increases the chances that a scum who is forced to claim from pressure will have a hard time coming up with an ability claim that matches his rolename convincingly. Mods do generally make an effort to match up flavor to abilities to some degree, and scum can have a hard time imitating that on the fly.
I normally dislike day 1 massclaims, mainly because it makes it a less enjoyable game to play. Part of mafia is guarding the information you have and knowing when to reveal it, and just laying it out in the beginning makes the game focus more on coordinating night actions rather than focusing on behavior. That said, my ability is going to come out soon enough anyway (plus I'm not sure how I should use it), and the community abilities (at least today's) are much more useful with a mass claim, so I wouldn't be against it.
I can see benefits to a nameclaim over a massclaim, but I'll let Puddlejumper/Yanni answer.
I'm pretty sure that we're going to need to agree on who to use the abilities on publicly (even things that we would normally want to keep secret, like protect), otherwise scum will just coordinate and use it on whoever they want. There won't be any obvious protect targets other than good analysts (unless we mass claim), but at least we'll keep that analyst alive.
scumbag
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I feel opposed to the name claim, and have a general bias against the mass claim but don't have the experience to really get into the argument, so I won't. I vote neutral on that one.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
How is knowledge of what abilities are out there make the game fully predictable? Let's say we have a doctor, for example. Does the knowledge that there's a doctor change mafia's behavior any?
Considering that they aren't players that can be killed, I'm failing to see why they don't. Please explain.
I see no reason a scum player would lie about their role-name in this game. Give me one possible role name that a scum would want to false claim in this game.
So what's the problem with a mass-claim again? Since if we're trying to put pressure on scum for a plausible claim as soon as possible, why not now?
=============
Really, the only reason I see you claiming for not being for a mass-claim is that it makes the game predictable. So please, explain how this is so. Otherwise, nothing else you said is an argument against a mass-claim.
Normally, I would agree 100% with you with regards to the massclaim Puddlejumper. The thing with the community abilities is that, in this game, the power is split between the community abilities and the roles in the game. For example, tonight, if we massclaimed and someone claimed a power role, we could protect him/her. If someone claimed an unconfirmable role (that could possibly be hiding a scummy role like a roleblocker or something), we can rolecop him, and have a decent chance of catching scum.
I'm definitely not dead set on the mass-claim (as I said, I don't really like playing the "coordinate your actions" game as much), and there some definite downsides, but there are definite benefits too (especially given my role, and apparently AI's).
Er, how could you have a general bias against massclaims, but not the experience? If you mean that you haven't played very many games, I feel like that's not really true (I swear I've seen you in quite a few games).
scumbag
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Thanks, AI. It's nice to know that you're town.
I keep hearing that they're a bad choice, but I think I've only been involved in 1. Therefore I don't feel I have the experience with them that I should in order to have a valid opinion in the argument.
As far as game experience, I believe this is number 7 for me, 4 completed 3 in progress. Maybe I should start keeping track.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Remember the mass claim in Shrek mafia to be that helpful, which doesn't help with my bias against them.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
One thing I missed: What about my posting causes you to favor a mass-claim convinced over a name-claim?
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What specifically about it appeals to you?
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
The ability to be able to use Community chosen abilities more effectively.
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Join our forum and site to Watch Simpsons free, and discuss a whole lot of other things on our forum.
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Yes, it does. I think that kinda proves my point more than yours, though.
Because the scum will know who they affect. The scum will not be remotely stymied vs. a doc protect on a target they are aware of, and NO ONE is going to be surprised into hurting their own side with a redirection they can see coming.
The role cop is the only one of the abilities which actually matters for anything more than positioning's sake, and I guarantee you it isn't worth sacrificing ALL of the town's hidden information.
Not having seen the series other than just the first couple episodes, it'd be hard to say. However, there is a decent chance that even if no particular rolename is inherently scummy, that some combination of rolenames would be (a la the ally powers or something). I would be shocked if the roles that were selected as scum truly had zero quantifiable relationship to each other in the series.
Because there's a cost associated with getting everyone to claim that doesn't come from just claiming names. That's why. You think the concept of a softclaim just came up from nowhere? Of course not. Claiming information that is probably harmless for the scum to know in order to lock in claims as needed down the line costs the town almost nothing. Claiming information that is extremely harmful for the scum to know in order to lock in claims earlier costs the town a very great deal.
Yes, actually they are. The fact that you apparently disagree doesn't make them not arguments. Don't dismiss them on everyone else's behalf just because you're choosing to overlook the obvious.
This is a bullcrap reason. Only one of the community abilities we have today are going to be better used with everyone's roles out in the open. The rolecop has the potential to catch someone in a lie, but that's such a waste of everyone else's abilities that it's not worth the effort. By a lot.
Vote Archonoid.
Vote Archonoid.
Vote: Archonoid.
Scum.
Hmm.
+Town points
I'm glad you're thinking through what the scum players' strategy will be - I think?
+Scum
Is not false-claiming.
I hate RVS.
Less excuses, more thinking for yourself please.
@Puddlejumper - Enough theory: top two candidates for town and scum, please, and why. I haven't seen you read another player this entire game. Step it up.
I don't see how it does. Mafia is going to try to play around disruption no matter what. It would be foolish not to.
Instead of a doc protect that has a much higher chance of being directed by the mafia and such won't even protect a player we want?
Except the player at the start of redirection is forced to use their ability.
Didn't know it was a series. Thanks for the heads-up.
Whee mod-gaming coming up, but what you are proposing is that Gigas1 would have had to design this game without the possibility of a D1 name-claim in mind.
Claiming names does nothing but lock in names. Considering it's very easy to derive abilities however you want for any given role, it means absolutely nothing. If you want to name-claim, there is no point.
Let's look at the post and break it down if you disagree:
"Night actions become predictable" Let's just say you and I differ greatly on this point.
Given that it's common for mods to avoid doing all the obvious for just this reason, I believe this is a given.
You and I agree on that, but this supports a pro full-claim stance.
There weren't any other arguments in that post.
A mass claim is fine, though I could go either way. I just have concerns about the benefit not being worth the price.
I like this post.
Not liking Yanni so far. How does Atlseal change your mind so fast? By being confident a massclaim works for him?
Probably, you're quite intimidating.
??
I have no input that it would be productive to give at this time.
But for the mafia to know exactly what kind of disruption they're facing makes playing it around it far, far too easy.
I don't remember saying anywhere that we shouldn't coordinate the community abilities. In fact, I distinctly remember saying the opposite. But that hardly requires, or even has anything to do with, massclaiming.
Okay, so...it's useful in the case that someone claims vig, and nowhere else, then? That's so much better...
I'm really not. He could have as easily given them falseclaims, or any number of other ways to deal with this. Assuming that randomizing the scum names is the only way this could work is naive.
It is very easy for some people, with some countries, I'm sure. Not so easy for everyone. Locking in claims at all isn't necessarily going to catch anyone; we just assume that some people are less capable of BSing than others.