Other than that word, he doesn't read remotely like Loran.
ITT, Ced missed a joke.
@Skander: The part where I think he's playing the part of the 'high and mighty townie', calling people (unnecessarily) to action and seriousness when we're, what, 2 RL days into the game? The part where he's pushing at 5 people at a time. I'm not condemning his smug or condescening comments (which is his normal meta), and if you're arguing he only does the first two points as town, I think you're wrong.
EWP: Did you seriously just express suspicion of someone for sucking up and then post this?
Quote from AI »
Actually it's more like I have much higher expectations of you and Azrael and so far they have been unfulfilled. Is it unfair of me to expect town-Az & town-DYH to nail scum with every post? Perhaps, but since I can't do that myself, I am attempting to make up for my relative inexperience by pushing harder against other players.
I don't usually get sick reads so I have to compensate somehow.
Seems a fair description of what we were doing at the time. Maybe if you'd state your issue better, because I don't see it.
No issue with it, really. I was just stating it's an interesting choice of words seeing as how the flavor of the game shows we're in a building that was, pretty much, hijacked. This isn't a point for or against you.
I don't understand this. So I vote you, then provide reasons to vote you, then you expected me to just go "oh, it's pregame still, duh" then unvote and drop the whole issue?
No, Ced. That's not what I said. What I said was that I thought it was a misunderstanding, and that when you saw that I had forgotten it was still pre-game, you would unvote.
My problem was that I didn't think that you were reacting naturally. I thought that you were purposefully not playing along with the joke, because you were afraid that ~V~ might be serious, and that you'd come out of the affair looking bad. So instead you played the "good townie".
Do you still think I reacted unnaturally, or do you think it was a natural reaction from me?
Remember, I'm not like other people.
Ok, that's true.
Though, how come you mentioned earlier that you thought that it was still the RVS, if apparently you still take things at face value? Why didn't you take my vote at face value? I did make the suggestion that you were scum in that vote.
Because I'm not one to take one vote too seriously, especially when it's cast in the RVS. I took the call for a speedlynch at face value because that's a much more serious thing than one person voting for me.
Come on, Manders, I know that you're not stupid. If you are town (which, reading up on the whole game so far, I'm now suspecting might be the case), you're being blindingly self-righteous about the affair. If I vote you and I'm wrong, then what does that actually mean?
Either that you're wrong or you're scum. I'm trying to decide which one is the case.
Huh, 90 was an answer?
Yes, it was.
Well, I didn't read it as one, because it certainly wasn't the sort of thing I was expecting. It read like a response to E_P more than anything.
Maybe you didn't understand the accusation?
You accused me of overreacting to a joke speedlynch to seem more town, correct?
To tell the truth, I am finding mindset and meta analysis much more interesting than "spot the scumtell" and "follow your gut", to the point where I ignore the latter two under some circumstances. I sometimes wonder, when I make an accusation and people follow, whether they understand it or just happen to agree with my direction for different reasons.
Meh, you lost me on this.
So, you are saying that I shouldn't have brought it up? Why?
Anyway, the first bit isn't a great reason (more of an attempt to make a at least some justification for which side of the fence you're on, which happens when you're making educated guesses with softclaim decisions). And, looking back, my role-related reason is a much better one.
This is what I was referring to, specifically.
I have a minor reason to believe that the softclaim won't help us hinder the scum, but not one that I wish to divulge at the moment
If you don't wish to divulge it, why mention it, but I see you did because it was the better reason.
Well, not a lot. You're giving some unusual answers above, but maybe we're just reading different script. You're making a couple of accusations that I disagree with (and which I might see as a desire to just point fingers), but, as I explained above, that could be just me. And some of your exchanges (particularly with ~V~, one person on which I wouldn't mind seeing pressure) are reading a lot like you in Basic #23 (which I just checked up on).
To be fair, my kidneys are killing me, so I'm not thinking particularly clearly, and this started Wednesday night, so this could have an effect on us being on different wavelengths.
Or it could be the legal drugs I'm taking because of my kidneys.
I would appreciate the benefit of the doubt if I say anything too weird. Just let me explain when I come down if this situation arises.
I disagree. "on the line" implies that there's some sort of risk attached (which is the position that AI accused me of casting him in), whereas "out" is more like somebody just doing something that they don't need to be doing (which was my point: why was AI trying to explain your motives for you?).
Ok, this makes sense.
And I don't know why he did that, but I'd like to just as much as the next person.
:song: doesn't work
I'm not defending him. I see a wagon building on him, so I go back and give my analysis on the posts that started it. Then I reviewed and said "meh, I'd rather not. I've seen before what happens here". As an example, I thought that I had joboman nailed in Basic #14, but I didn't. The case here seems far far weaker.
Fair enough.
I don't want to answer loaded questions. Why try and make me link myself to DKD?
It was rhetorical.
I, too, am awaiting an answer to Skander's question to decide if I want to stay on Ced or move to ~V~
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See this is all very interesting, well and good. But I'm still a little stuck on the part where az admitted he was scum and hasn't been lynched yet. unvote vote az.
In other news I am pro softclaim in general but i think that name/nation softclaim is really not going to do much. Name won't really restrict the rest of the claim much do to bastard moddery, and Nation could very well hurt us if there is some kind of cult in this game.
Cites a meta reason to vote Az when that exact meta was mentioned in the thread on town-Az.
It was a Basic game IIRC. I want to say #11 but I'm not sure. Basically Az said that he was scum, jester theories ensued, they ended up lynching him (maybe the next day) and he was scum.
Experience. Playing with and against Az for over 5 years. Knowledge there's no way in hell anyone "slips" by outright saying they are scum.
It's a null tell, since he would absolutely do it no matter what his alignment was. Ditto for "AzPoints", and any other attention-seeking reaction-seeking behaviour he may come up with, and bantering with DYH.
Interesting. You have a retinue large enough to see to the evacuation of the normal staff and you're apparently PERSONALLY capable of dealing with a terrorist. That doesn't sound like any Politician I know of. (Example - The Secret Service is there to protect the President, POTUS should NEVER have to deal with something like a mad bomber directly.)
*shakes head*
A flavor case with a lot of assumptions in it. Our win con says members of the Politicians, so it may not be entirely career politicians per se.
Actually it's more like I have much higher expectations of you and Azrael and so far they have been unfulfilled. Is it unfair of me to expect town-Az & town-DYH to nail scum with every post? Perhaps, but since I can't do that myself, I am attempting to make up for my relative inexperience by pushing harder against other players.
I don't usually get sick reads so I have to compensate somehow.
@Az: I didn't think what AI had done was criminal (the stuff I mentioned to Skander); it was more of a nagging feeling that I was pushing harder, but when that last paragraph came down - the one about you and me - I got the complete opposite reaction to it that you did. Can you explain to me why you think that makes him look more townie to you? To me, it reeks of trying to excuse scummy behavior with an appeal to authority.
EWP:
@AI: Yeah, Zchinque's been acting strangely, and I suspect it's probably role-related (or at least he's acting like a gentleman from a specific country). I hope she doesn't take offense here, but even in the context you've provided, do you think Manders is the person Zchinque fears most? Why do you think he's sucking up to her, specifically?
Also, I haven't checked back to verify but I think I'm right; weren't you the person who agreed with the speculation the scum likely didn't have false claims? Can you explain why?
@Az: I didn't think what AI had done was criminal (the stuff I mentioned to Skander); it was more of a nagging feeling that I was pushing harder, but when that last paragraph came down - the one about you and me - I got the complete opposite reaction to it that you did. Can you explain to me why you think that makes him look more townie to you? To me, it reeks of trying to excuse scummy behavior with an appeal to authority.
I think it sounds like a natural townie thought process, more creative, strange, and unique than an excuse that scum would come up with on the fly.
I also find it easy to believe that he thinks that I've been doing nothing but wasting my time so far this game.
Lastly, I don't put a whole lot of faith or credit in the "sucking up by being a good townie" tell. It usually winds up being good townies who tend to commit it. Or, they post so much and slightly off-key that you can pinpoint them if it's an act.
@Skander: The part where I think he's playing the part of the 'high and mighty townie', calling people (unnecessarily) to action and seriousness when we're, what, 2 RL days into the game? The part where he's pushing at 5 people at a time. I'm not condemning his smug or condescening comments (which is his normal meta), and if you're arguing he only does the first two points as town, I think you're wrong.
Got it.
It's possible that I haven't seen him as scum enough, but I don't recall this behaviour in either Indiana Jones or Lord of the Rings II.
@DYH - It's definitely a very off-kilter position for him to take, that we're not contributing two days into the thread, but it's not a scum perspective. It's the perspective of a zealous townie, trying hard himself, who thinks he sees a couple of big guns apparently not pulling their weight.
@AI: Yeah, Zchinque's been acting strangely, and I suspect it's probably role-related (or at least he's acting like a gentleman from a specific country). I hope she doesn't take offense here, but even in the context you've provided, do you think Manders is the person Zchinque fears most? Why do you think he's sucking up to her, specifically?
I also got the impression that his behavior has to do with his flavor. I don't think he's particularly afraid of Manders, but he might be looking to buddy up to an obvtown player if he thinks she'll defend him in a sticky situation. Though she has stated quite clearly that she will not be swayed so easily, a flattering compliment (or six) work wonders at a subconscious level. Now that I have brought the matter to light it should present no problem.
Also, I haven't checked back to verify but I think I'm right; weren't you the person who agreed with the speculation the scum likely didn't have false claims? Can you explain why?
At this point I will recant that belief due to the wording of the town win condition. Because it is not phrased such that the town wins when the scum are dead (or some variation thereof), it is quite likely that all politicians are town or neutral and all non-politicians are anti-town (assuming this information is valid and not bastardized).
You have any reasoning for any of that? Nice OMGUS, btw.
I can tell you why, but that ruins the fun. Oh, okay, I'll take a stab at some Azrael points:
"I want more info from this guy" is not a townie-type statement. Townies don't attack people for information, townies attack people they think are scum.
I think it sounds like a natural townie thought process, more creative, strange, and unique than an excuse that scum would come up with on the fly.
I also find it easy to believe that he thinks that I've been doing nothing but wasting my time so far this game.
Lastly, I don't put a whole lot of faith or credit in the "sucking up by being a good townie" tell. It usually winds up being good townies who tend to commit it. Or, they post so much and slightly off-key that you can pinpoint them if it's an act.
I can buy that first part (and your subsequent follow-up), but for what it's worth I think our conversation around handling claims, etc. was hardly wasting time.
It's possible that I haven't seen him as scum enough, but I don't recall this behaviour in either Indiana Jones or Lord of the Rings II.
And you may be totally right about that; I was making a play at him based on my belief that he doesn't like to be challenged, and prefers to be in attack-mode. Like I mentioned to Az earlier, I didn't think the behavior was criminal, but enough to push him on.
I also got the impression that his behavior has to do with his flavor. I don't think he's particularly afraid of Manders, but he might be looking to buddy up to an obvtown player if he thinks she'll defend him in a sticky situation. Though she has stated quite clearly that she will not be swayed so easily, a flattering compliment (or six) work wonders at a subconscious level. Now that I have brought the matter to light it should present no problem.
Yeah, I've been sucked into a couple of those myself.
I can tell you why, but that ruins the fun. Oh, okay, I'll take a stab at some Azrael points:
"I want more info from this guy" is not a townie-type statement. Townies don't attack people for information, townies attack people they think are scum.
As for any opinions I have towards who would be scum I would have to say FOS Seppel for blatently fence sitting based on "Because cyan says so" and "I don't know if the wagon can get anywhere" logic.
@Seppel: What's your logic for an OMGUS vote adding to a bandwagon that you yourself thought was dying until Loran finally threw his hat in?
This is what I was thinking of. Not as exact as I remembered it, but still similar in terms of experience, love of acronyms, and buzzwords.unvote, vote IB
Well, he was barely in the game in Indiana Jones. He replaced in long enough to get lynched D1, and we were already suspicious of his predecessor.
I did not get lynched in that game, thank you very much. As mafia, I correctly called out Guardman as scum (SK) and got killed by him. Had I gotten him lynched there is a good chance we would have won that game. By the way, I am still mad that Cyan as mafia doc did not protect me that Night.
"I want more info from this guy" is not a townie-type statement. Townies don't attack people for information, townies attack people they think are scum.
The random stage ended in the pregame, which I wasn't really paying attention to, because it was the pre-game. I understand that, but I don't see why that means I can't have a little fun with Z, him being the mod of the second game I played.
@AI: Yeah, Zchinque's been acting strangely, and I suspect it's probably role-related (or at least he's acting like a gentleman from a specific country). I hope she doesn't take offense here, but even in the context you've provided, do you think Manders is the person Zchinque fears most? Why do you think he's sucking up to her, specifically?
Oh, and 101 Az points for anyone who can do a decent wording analysis on Ibug's two posts.
It was a fun test, and we're all impressed at how much you won.
As an aside, seems to be high inflation on AzPoints these days.
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Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
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Picross 3D
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
Holy hello, this entire game is tl;dr. Not to mention advancing at way too fast a pace fore me, especially since I will be gone for over two days. I hate to do it but I have to @mod replace out
This is for the better of all people playing.
Could someone tell me why calling Az on an OMGUS vote is scummy?
AI wants to "apply pressure" to people. I want more info out of Az. I'm not looking for a claim, I'm looking for posts. I use different words for the same concept, and that's making me look scummy? Awesome.
unvote
Vote IBUG
I've been scum with this guy. He is scum now too.
You were scum with me for all of 20 minutes in my second game, which ended (for me) long before my first. How is that enough to make any kind of meta call, especially when I had even less of an idea of what I was doing than I do now? Manders was in that game too, longer than I was. Do you see her coming out of the wings screaming scum? Sure, she pointed out the scummy points in my posting, but she's not pointing a vote my way(yet)
Using strong language such as ignored, heavy handed, and using WIFOM to make it sound worse than it was.
I was unaware that "ignored" and "heavy handed" qualified as strong language/buzzwords. WIFOM, sure, but I used it because I think that's what he's doing.
Quote from manders »
Asking for reasoning when you pretty much provided it, and blaming you for OMGUS, which makes you seem more scum.
I can haz Az points now?
I'm not seeing where he's provided reasoning. I see "this one could be scum." What am I missing?
And aren't OMGUS votes usually scumtells? Why do people point them out if they're not? I'm just calling out what I see here.
"I want more info from this guy" is not a townie-type statement. Townies don't attack people for information, townies attack people they think are scum.
"Got any content, CC?", "Got any reasoning for that"; it's all the same. Now, if only we had a Samurai DayVig.
I see voting with no explanation. I want explanation/discussion on it. What's scummy about that? Voting WITHOUT explanation is supposed to be scummy, not the other way around. (unless you're kpaca, apparently.)
How many times can he use the word "seems" in a single post? It's as if he's afraid to actually call you out here because he knows it's not true.
I just use the word "seems" a lot in my posting/speech. I'll try to dig up some examples from Shrek mafia for you later. TACKY was all over me for a while about it.
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A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
unvote
Vote IBUG
I've been scum with this guy. He is scum now too.
Mwahahaha, pure gold.
There's a nice case on iBug but a lot of votes in a really short time span make me slightly wary. Vezok, though, is scum whether he's bussing iBug or just going for a mislynch. His first real post of the game and all he can muster is a forced vote on the current wagon, with not a word about any of the myriad other topics. To top it off, as iBug pointed out there doesn't seem to be much meta you can pull from Kaizer's to conclusively decide that iBug's scum.
Could someone tell me why calling Az on an OMGUS vote is scummy?
Sure, because it wasn't an OMGUS vote. kpaca's not the only one that gets away with voting without posting reasons. Sorry if you thought he was.
AI wants to "apply pressure" to people. I want more info out of Az. I'm not looking for a claim, I'm looking for posts. I use different words for the same concept, and that's making me look scummy? Awesome.
You see, the only thing we can base information on is what people type. Your choice of wording is what has landed you in this predicament. Personally, I don't think it makes you scum just yet, but it certainly doesn't make me think you are town.
You were scum with me for all of 20 minutes in my second game, which ended (for me) long before my first. How is that enough to make any kind of meta call, especially when I had even less of an idea of what I was doing than I do now? Manders was in that game too, longer than I was. Do you see her coming out of the wings screaming scum? Sure, she pointed out the scummy points in my posting, but she's not pointing a vote my way(yet)
Indeed, I'm not, but then again, I wasn't on your wagon. Not because I didn't think you were scum, but I didn't want the day ended that quickly.
I was unaware that "ignored" and "heavy handed" qualified as strong language/buzzwords. WIFOM, sure, but I used it because I think that's what he's doing.
From what I've seen on the site, it's also a common scum tactic to reduce too much stuff down to WIFOM.
I'm not seeing where he's provided reasoning. I see "this one could be scum." What am I missing?
The words between the lines.
And aren't OMGUS votes usually scumtells? Why do people point them out if they're not? I'm just calling out what I see here.
Yes, OMGUS is a great scumtell, but not all votes on the person voting for you is an OMGUS vote.
Which is precisely what I'm doing.
Again, it's the way you did it. Your phrasing. You'll need to work on that if you want people to not jump on you if you're town.
I just use the word "seems" a lot in my posting/speech. I'll try to dig up some examples from Shrek mafia for you later. TACKY was all over me for a while about it.
There's a nice case on iBug but a lot of votes in a really short time span make me slightly wary. Vezok, though, is scum whether he's bussing iBug or just going for a mislynch. His first real post of the game and all he can muster is a forced vote on the current wagon, with not a word about any of the myriad other topics. To top it off, as iBug pointed out there doesn't seem to be much meta you can pull from Kaizer's to conclusively decide that iBug's scum.
Unvote Vote Vezok
/barn
Unvote; Vote: Vezokpiraka
@Ced - Still want you to answer Skander's question, though, dear.
Holy hello, this entire game is tl;dr. Not to mention advancing at way too fast a pace fore me, especially since I will be gone for over two days. I hate to do it but I have to @mod replace out
This is for the better of all people playing.
Subtle town tell. See Highlander, though that game was only moving quickly at certain points.
AI wants to "apply pressure" to people. I want more info out of Az. I'm not looking for a claim, I'm looking for posts. I use different words for the same concept, and that's making me look scummy? Awesome.
You were scum with me for all of 20 minutes in my second game, which ended (for me) long before my first. How is that enough to make any kind of meta call, especially when I had even less of an idea of what I was doing than I do now? Manders was in that game too, longer than I was. Do you see her coming out of the wings screaming scum? Sure, she pointed out the scummy points in my posting, but she's not pointing a vote my way(yet)
I was unaware that "ignored" and "heavy handed" qualified as strong language/buzzwords. WIFOM, sure, but I used it because I think that's what he's doing.
It depends on context. Seeing as how Azrael was clearly joking, to make anything of it is misguided at best and scummy at worst.
I'm not seeing where he's provided reasoning. I see "this one could be scum." What am I missing?
And aren't OMGUS votes usually scumtells? Why do people point them out if they're not? I'm just calling out what I see here.
Az didn't fully explain his reasoning, but the assumption is that he doesn't have to because your post was scummy enough for others to take a second look and see what Az was inferring to.
As for OMGUS, I find this quote to be particularly useful:
OMGUS is to scumtells what Miley Cyrus is to music.
It's a situational tell at best, and is painfully overused on this site. It's often better not to even bother unless it is so blatant and void of logic that it can't come from a townie mindset. When a player uses an OMGUS argument as the main reason for an attack it's not a pro-town move because of how bad of a tell OMGUS is.
I see voting with no explanation. I want explanation/discussion on it. What's scummy about that? Voting WITHOUT explanation is supposed to be scummy, not the other way around. (unless you're kpaca, apparently.)
He quoted the post that makes you more likely than random to be scum. That is justification enough for me, though I understand your confusion. Hopefully by reading what the rest of us had to say, you can see our point of view too.
I just use the word "seems" a lot in my posting/speech. I'll try to dig up some examples from Shrek mafia for you later. TACKY was all over me for a while about it.
That would be nice. Players who take a firm stances on issues and don't use ambiguous language tend to be town.
This post as a whole feels like town, though I'll still keep an eye on this one.
There's a nice case on iBug but a lot of votes in a really short time span make me slightly wary. Vezok, though, is scum whether he's bussing iBug or just going for a mislynch. His first real post of the game and all he can muster is a forced vote on the current wagon, with not a word about any of the myriad other topics. To top it off, as iBug pointed out there doesn't seem to be much meta you can pull from Kaizer's to conclusively decide that iBug's scum.
Unvote Vote Vezok
Have you ever played with this kid before? If so, you should realize that he is the poster child for throwing out "traditional" scum tells because he commits them as town, scum, and neutral alignments, not to mention he often commits classic logical fallacies and tries to pass it off as legitimate reasoning. Also, my condolences.
EBWoP: To carry the Miley Cyrus analogy further, her music is only valid in certain situations. Being too drunk to know one's own name being the primary one.
There's a nice case on iBug but a lot of votes in a really short time span make me slightly wary. Vezok, though, is scum whether he's bussing iBug or just going for a mislynch. His first real post of the game and all he can muster is a forced vote on the current wagon, with not a word about any of the myriad other topics. To top it off, as iBug pointed out there doesn't seem to be much meta you can pull from Kaizer's to conclusively decide that iBug's scum.
Unvote Vote Vezok
Have you ever played with Vez before?
I agree that the post is bollocks, that's not it.
It's a situational tell at best, and is painfully overused on this site. It's often better not to even bother unless it is so blatant and void of logic that it can't come from a townie mindset. When a player uses an OMGUS argument as the main reason for an attack it's not a pro-town move because of how bad of a tell OMGUS is.
/barn.
I can't remember a single case where OMGUS has been a significant part.
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Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Picross 3D
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
Vez is not that difficult - his main goal is to survive until end game every game. It explains most of the choices he makes, and letting him go completely is a bad idea because of that.
Vez is not that difficult - his main goal is to survive until end game every game. It explains most of the choices he makes, and letting him go completely is a bad idea because of that.
I'm not arguing for the letting the man off, I just wonder what people see in his post that is worse than normal.
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Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Picross 3D
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
But, I did like his last post. I've seen him attacking the votes on the wagon on him (including the /barn votes) but I'm wondering now if that's just his normal play.
@other people: Does AI attack everyone voting him as town/scum?
@: Other people
I don't particularly like the votes on vezokpiraka, seems like something to get a ball rolling, and as stated before, vez does that as town.
This game is moving quite fast, working on some stuff
It depends on context. Seeing as how Azrael was clearly joking, to make anything of it is misguided at best and scummy at worst.
I suppose. I just can't help but read a little bit into it, like he's just playing with us.
Quote from AI »
Az didn't fully explain his reasoning, but the assumption is that he doesn't have to because your post was scummy enough for others to take a second look and see what Az was inferring to.
Ah. If that works for you guys, that's cool I guess, but I obviously didn't see any reasoning behind it. Thanks for the explanations though.
Quote from AI »
It's a situational tell at best, and is painfully overused on this site. It's often better not to even bother unless it is so blatant and void of logic that it can't come from a townie mindset. When a player uses an OMGUS argument as the main reason for an attack it's not a pro-town move because of how bad of a tell OMGUS is.
I certainly didn't mean it to be the main reason of the attack, but I thought it added to it. I appear to be mistaken, however.
Quote from AI »
If so, you used very bad phrasing and failed to convey what you intended.
Noted.
Quote from AI »
He quoted the post that makes you more likely than random to be scum. That is justification enough for me, though I understand your confusion. Hopefully by reading what the rest of us had to say, you can see our point of view too.
I believe I understand it, yes.
Quote from AI »
That would be nice. Players who take a firm stances on issues and don't use ambiguous language tend to be town.
I will go digging.
In light of what others have said about Az, I feel safe in an unvote at this time. I will go do some Shrek Mafia digging of my posts to show you my seeming.
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A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
~V~'s attack on Az when he's played a dozen or so games is bad.
AI's "let's generate some content people" read as overzealous to me at first, but since then has been Town through and through so I'm not concerned.
The case on ibug has merit for the reasons already provided. I'd like to add that his response to the wagon hasn't made me feel any better about him. His answers to the majority of the points against him were basically "what's scummy about that" or "I didn't know that was scummy."
vez's vote on ibug is typical vez. Whether he's Town, Mafia, or Neutral he's a loose cannon. I'm certainly not trying to excuse the behavior, but he does have a track record for it.
As for Seppel's claim, I don't really like it. As Archae mentioned, Vanilla Town is generally a safe false claim to make, but Merlin being Vanilla Town? I can see the Merlin character being terrible at spellcasting (I seem to remember this from the movies), but not casting AT ALL? That seems like a stretch.
On the flip side, if he were making it up, I doubt he'd pick Merlin to claim as a vanilla townie.
I'd like to add that his response to the wagon hasn't made me feel any better about him. His answers to the majority of the points against him were basically "what's scummy about that" or "I didn't know that was scummy."
*Nods*
There were too many tells piled upon tells in those two posts for a concilatory/meekness defense to push me off of him. He stays in my red column.
I typically play games cautiously. I have since learned this isn't really the right approach with Mafia, but I'm still working that into my system. When I'm not certain of something, I usually don't try to pretend I'm 100% on it.
Seems that's something I should just start doing.
(fakeedit:THERE'S THAT WORD AGAIN!)
Private Mod Note
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A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
ITT, Ced missed a joke.
@Skander: The part where I think he's playing the part of the 'high and mighty townie', calling people (unnecessarily) to action and seriousness when we're, what, 2 RL days into the game? The part where he's pushing at 5 people at a time. I'm not condemning his smug or condescening comments (which is his normal meta), and if you're arguing he only does the first two points as town, I think you're wrong.
EWP: Did you seriously just express suspicion of someone for sucking up and then post this?
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
No issue with it, really. I was just stating it's an interesting choice of words seeing as how the flavor of the game shows we're in a building that was, pretty much, hijacked. This isn't a point for or against you.
No, Ced. That's not what I said. What I said was that I thought it was a misunderstanding, and that when you saw that I had forgotten it was still pre-game, you would unvote.
Do you still think I reacted unnaturally, or do you think it was a natural reaction from me?
Remember, I'm not like other people.
Because I'm not one to take one vote too seriously, especially when it's cast in the RVS. I took the call for a speedlynch at face value because that's a much more serious thing than one person voting for me.
Either that you're wrong or you're scum. I'm trying to decide which one is the case.
Yes, it was.
You accused me of overreacting to a joke speedlynch to seem more town, correct?
Meh, you lost me on this.
This is what I was referring to, specifically.
If you don't wish to divulge it, why mention it, but I see you did because it was the better reason.
To be fair, my kidneys are killing me, so I'm not thinking particularly clearly, and this started Wednesday night, so this could have an effect on us being on different wavelengths.
Or it could be the legal drugs I'm taking because of my kidneys.
I would appreciate the benefit of the doubt if I say anything too weird. Just let me explain when I come down if this situation arises.
Ok, this makes sense.
And I don't know why he did that, but I'd like to just as much as the next person.
Fair enough.
It was rhetorical.
I, too, am awaiting an answer to Skander's question to decide if I want to stay on Ced or move to ~V~
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Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
And just for the record...I actually have no clue what DYH is.
Picked a really bad reason to vote against me.
I like this one.
Hmm, I don't remember that in the slightest.
*shakes head*
A flavor case with a lot of assumptions in it. Our win con says members of the Politicians, so it may not be entirely career politicians per se.
That's very...curt. FOS Nom.
This one could be scum.
*eyebrow* I know there's precedents and all, but it's been a while since i caught an entire scum-team by day two.
I'm not saying that. At this time.
This guy is town.
AI is also town this time.
Hydra votes: WoD, IBug.
There's a difference between saying that I respect the two of you as players and expect more content if you're town and what Zchinque has done.
Even after the pregame phase had ended:
It was cute the first couple of times but now I just think he's trying to get on her good side so she doesn't get suspicious.
EWP: Nice of you to join us, Azrael.
It's still cute, but you should know that won't work with me, hon.
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EWP:
@AI: Yeah, Zchinque's been acting strangely, and I suspect it's probably role-related (or at least he's acting like a gentleman from a specific country). I hope she doesn't take offense here, but even in the context you've provided, do you think Manders is the person Zchinque fears most? Why do you think he's sucking up to her, specifically?
Also, I haven't checked back to verify but I think I'm right; weren't you the person who agreed with the speculation the scum likely didn't have false claims? Can you explain why?
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
You have any reasoning for any of that? Nice OMGUS, btw.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
I think it sounds like a natural townie thought process, more creative, strange, and unique than an excuse that scum would come up with on the fly.
I also find it easy to believe that he thinks that I've been doing nothing but wasting my time so far this game.
Lastly, I don't put a whole lot of faith or credit in the "sucking up by being a good townie" tell. It usually winds up being good townies who tend to commit it. Or, they post so much and slightly off-key that you can pinpoint them if it's an act.
Got it.
It's possible that I haven't seen him as scum enough, but I don't recall this behaviour in either Indiana Jones or Lord of the Rings II.
Oooooh, this guy is soooo done.
No reasoning at all, my little scum-buddy. Vote: IBug.
Please don't hold the bus against me, k?
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It gives me a weird feeling so I'm watching him. I don't think it makes him more likely to be scum in and of itself.
I also got the impression that his behavior has to do with his flavor. I don't think he's particularly afraid of Manders, but he might be looking to buddy up to an obvtown player if he thinks she'll defend him in a sticky situation. Though she has stated quite clearly that she will not be swayed so easily, a flattering compliment (or six) work wonders at a subconscious level. Now that I have brought the matter to light it should present no problem.
At this point I will recant that belief due to the wording of the town win condition. Because it is not phrased such that the town wins when the scum are dead (or some variation thereof), it is quite likely that all politicians are town or neutral and all non-politicians are anti-town (assuming this information is valid and not bastardized).
I can tell you why, but that ruins the fun. Oh, okay, I'll take a stab at some Azrael points:
"I want more info from this guy" is not a townie-type statement. Townies don't attack people for information, townies attack people they think are scum.
I can buy that first part (and your subsequent follow-up), but for what it's worth I think our conversation around handling claims, etc. was hardly wasting time.
And you may be totally right about that; I was making a play at him based on my belief that he doesn't like to be challenged, and prefers to be in attack-mode. Like I mentioned to Az earlier, I didn't think the behavior was criminal, but enough to push him on.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
You forgot the "Oops".
Yeah, I've been sucked into a couple of those myself.
Were you town or scum?
Using strong language such as ignored, heavy handed, and using WIFOM to make it sound worse than it was.
Asking for reasoning when you pretty much provided it, and blaming you for OMGUS, which makes you seem more scum.
I can haz Az points now?
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I totally called the now-offered Az points before it actually happened, for the record. I think I get them, too.
Also, Unvote.
I'm not getting the reaction I would've expected from AI if he was scum; too level-headed. Azrael may also be wiser than me.
Vote: iBug
This so reminds me of Loran in L5R mafia, too.
"Got any content, CC?", "Got any reasoning for that"; it's all the same. Now, if only we had a Samurai DayVig.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Headshot! (+101 Az points)
One tell down, three more tells to go.
That's one I didn't catch, but it's solid. (+101 Az points)
Mmm, well, I definitely didn't provide any reasoning for it. The OMGUS is another though. (++ points)
I did not get lynched in that game, thank you very much. As mafia, I correctly called out Guardman as scum (SK) and got killed by him. Had I gotten him lynched there is a good chance we would have won that game. By the way, I am still mad that Cyan as mafia doc did not protect me that Night.
I'll bite.
How many times can he use the word "seems" in a single post? It's as if he's afraid to actually call you out here because he knows it's not true.
This is good too.
Unvote
Vote indomitablebug
@Az - I'd like to know why you think ~V~ is town, please.
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There shall be no fun!
Am I to understand you to prefer me to take my courtship elsewhere?
Ne'er underestimate a lady's wrath.
Yeah, you're not looking so good right now.
Unvote, vote iBug
It was a fun test, and we're all impressed at how much you won.
As an aside, seems to be high inflation on AzPoints these days.
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
This is for the better of all people playing.
The Family
Vote IBUG
I've been scum with this guy. He is scum now too.
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AI wants to "apply pressure" to people. I want more info out of Az. I'm not looking for a claim, I'm looking for posts. I use different words for the same concept, and that's making me look scummy? Awesome.
You were scum with me for all of 20 minutes in my second game, which ended (for me) long before my first. How is that enough to make any kind of meta call, especially when I had even less of an idea of what I was doing than I do now? Manders was in that game too, longer than I was. Do you see her coming out of the wings screaming scum? Sure, she pointed out the scummy points in my posting, but she's not pointing a vote my way(yet)
I was unaware that "ignored" and "heavy handed" qualified as strong language/buzzwords. WIFOM, sure, but I used it because I think that's what he's doing.
I'm not seeing where he's provided reasoning. I see "this one could be scum." What am I missing?
And aren't OMGUS votes usually scumtells? Why do people point them out if they're not? I'm just calling out what I see here.
Which is precisely what I'm doing.
I see voting with no explanation. I want explanation/discussion on it. What's scummy about that? Voting WITHOUT explanation is supposed to be scummy, not the other way around. (unless you're kpaca, apparently.)
I just use the word "seems" a lot in my posting/speech. I'll try to dig up some examples from Shrek mafia for you later. TACKY was all over me for a while about it.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Mwahahaha, pure gold.
There's a nice case on iBug but a lot of votes in a really short time span make me slightly wary. Vezok, though, is scum whether he's bussing iBug or just going for a mislynch. His first real post of the game and all he can muster is a forced vote on the current wagon, with not a word about any of the myriad other topics. To top it off, as iBug pointed out there doesn't seem to be much meta you can pull from Kaizer's to conclusively decide that iBug's scum.
Unvote Vote Vezok
I don't think you want that kind of love from me, do you, dear?
Wait, courtship? You may need to speak with red_0mega about all that, hon.
Heh, this guy knows his ladies, lol.
Sure, because it wasn't an OMGUS vote. kpaca's not the only one that gets away with voting without posting reasons. Sorry if you thought he was.
You see, the only thing we can base information on is what people type. Your choice of wording is what has landed you in this predicament. Personally, I don't think it makes you scum just yet, but it certainly doesn't make me think you are town.
Indeed, I'm not, but then again, I wasn't on your wagon. Not because I didn't think you were scum, but I didn't want the day ended that quickly.
From what I've seen on the site, it's also a common scum tactic to reduce too much stuff down to WIFOM.
The words between the lines.
Yes, OMGUS is a great scumtell, but not all votes on the person voting for you is an OMGUS vote.
Again, it's the way you did it. Your phrasing. You'll need to work on that if you want people to not jump on you if you're town.
And yet you didn't learn.
/barn
Unvote; Vote: Vezokpiraka
@Ced - Still want you to answer Skander's question, though, dear.
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Like I said, at first it's cute but when prolonged it's just weird, especially considering the lady in question is engaged.
Subtle town tell. See Highlander, though that game was only moving quickly at certain points.
Post more. Now.
Welcome to the big leagues, son. Keeping reading, won't you?
Posts =|= Information. Information = Claims.
Valid.
It depends on context. Seeing as how Azrael was clearly joking, to make anything of it is misguided at best and scummy at worst.
Az didn't fully explain his reasoning, but the assumption is that he doesn't have to because your post was scummy enough for others to take a second look and see what Az was inferring to.
As for OMGUS, I find this quote to be particularly useful:
It's a situational tell at best, and is painfully overused on this site. It's often better not to even bother unless it is so blatant and void of logic that it can't come from a townie mindset. When a player uses an OMGUS argument as the main reason for an attack it's not a pro-town move because of how bad of a tell OMGUS is.
If so, you used very bad phrasing and failed to convey what you intended.
He quoted the post that makes you more likely than random to be scum. That is justification enough for me, though I understand your confusion. Hopefully by reading what the rest of us had to say, you can see our point of view too.
That would be nice. Players who take a firm stances on issues and don't use ambiguous language tend to be town.
This post as a whole feels like town, though I'll still keep an eye on this one.
Have you ever played with this kid before? If so, you should realize that he is the poster child for throwing out "traditional" scum tells because he commits them as town, scum, and neutral alignments, not to mention he often commits classic logical fallacies and tries to pass it off as legitimate reasoning. Also, my condolences.
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Have you ever played with Vez before?
I agree that the post is bollocks, that's not it.
Better than nothing, no?
I... see. How awfully tactless of me. I am afraid I must then withdraw my pursuit, and admire your grace from afar.
You have played with Vez, hon. What about this makes you think him scum?
(Deep down I really despise the "he's always scummy"-argument, but at the same time I fear it can't be discounted.)
/barn.
I can't remember a single case where OMGUS has been a significant part.
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
I'm not arguing for the letting the man off, I just wonder what people see in his post that is worse than normal.
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
Oh hey, let's mindlessly attack the votes on you.
But, I did like his last post. I've seen him attacking the votes on the wagon on him (including the /barn votes) but I'm wondering now if that's just his normal play.
@other people: Does AI attack everyone voting him as town/scum?
@: Other people
I don't particularly like the votes on vezokpiraka, seems like something to get a ball rolling, and as stated before, vez does that as town.
This game is moving quite fast, working on some stuff
If you say so, lol.
He'll appreciate it, but he wasn't worried, I assure you.
I can't read Vez under any circumstances, but for him to jump on that wagon which I don't agree with for BS reasons is enough for me to vote him.
QFT
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I suppose. I just can't help but read a little bit into it, like he's just playing with us.
Ah. If that works for you guys, that's cool I guess, but I obviously didn't see any reasoning behind it. Thanks for the explanations though.
I certainly didn't mean it to be the main reason of the attack, but I thought it added to it. I appear to be mistaken, however.
Noted.
I believe I understand it, yes.
I will go digging.
In light of what others have said about Az, I feel safe in an unvote at this time. I will go do some Shrek Mafia digging of my posts to show you my seeming.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
~V~'s attack on Az when he's played a dozen or so games is bad.
AI's "let's generate some content people" read as overzealous to me at first, but since then has been Town through and through so I'm not concerned.
The case on ibug has merit for the reasons already provided. I'd like to add that his response to the wagon hasn't made me feel any better about him. His answers to the majority of the points against him were basically "what's scummy about that" or "I didn't know that was scummy."
vez's vote on ibug is typical vez. Whether he's Town, Mafia, or Neutral he's a loose cannon. I'm certainly not trying to excuse the behavior, but he does have a track record for it.
@Mod: Votecount please.
Consider my vote on ibug pending the votecount.
Modern
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5370250#post5370250
Seppel's wonderful advice:
Hope that info helps!
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
*nods* Plus the question mark on top of that. (+101 Az points)
He's using strongly condemning language, but he's tentative about taking that stance at the same time.
Because the post I quoted has strong town tells in it. Frustration/curiosity/info hunger, IIRC.
*Nods*
There were too many tells piled upon tells in those two posts for a concilatory/meekness defense to push me off of him. He stays in my red column.
That's actually not fence-sitting at all, at least in the scummy sense.
But what you posted was definitely a split-mind tell. Aggressive language but you're timid, nervous, at the same time.
Why would you be nervous there, as town?
Seems that's something I should just start doing.
(fakeedit:THERE'S THAT WORD AGAIN!)
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Either would be fine. Not both together.