I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
[B]Scum:[/B]
RafaelK [B]-Meant to be a "No Read". Pardon the error.[/B]
TheFooFish [B]-Far too calm, doesn't post too much, but keeps out of full attention.[/B]
Indomitablebug [B]-Basically, what you've heard already. No need to repeat.[/B]
[B]Town:[/B]
AsianInvasion [B]-Not overly defensive, not a scum-hunter, and not
Wrath_of_DoG [B]-"".[/B]
MandersHex [B]-"".[/B]
Skander [B]-"".[/B]
Talore [B]-"".[/B]
Azrael [B]-"".[/B]
[B]Traitor/Jester:[/B]
Vezokpiraka [B]-Wanted to be lynched. No reason (that I can find) other than that you're a Traitor or Jester (or a different role that will benefit if lynched).[/B]
Ced395 [B]-Admitted.[/B]
[B]Neutral/No Read:[/B]
Syrenz [B]-Null.[/B]
~Tilde~ [B]-Null.[/B]
Nom Anor [B]-Null.[/B]
Some One [B]-Null.[/B]
Zchinque [B]-Null.[/B]
[B]Any player not mentioned will fall here.[/B]
You're missing a few people. If you don't know what to say about them, why aren't they in the neutral/no read pile?
Also, how do you manage to put Wrath_of_Dog into your town pile with only having three posts and game related content in only the first one? I understand he's having trouble reading the game and I don't hold that against him, but I would like to know why you've placed him in the town pile when he hasn't really done anything at all yet.
What I've read from him didn't lead me to believe was Mafia.
You're going to need to learn how to be more specific and focused than that in your analysis.
These reads are painfully generalized and seem essentially baseless. You're using an analysis rake to try to catch and hold water. The scum can dodge around your general impressions as easily as breathing.
You won't be able to catch scum or truly identify townies until you start taking a harder look at individual posts, and try to figure out what that individual player is up to at any given moment, beneath the surface.
You're going to need to learn how to be more specific and focused than that in your analysis.
These reads are painfully generalized and seem essentially baseless. You're using an analysis rake to try to catch and hold water. The scum can dodge around your general impressions as easily as breathing.
You won't be able to catch scum or truly identify townies until you start taking a harder look at individual posts, and try to figure out what that individual player is up to at any given moment, beneath the surface.
Gah. What is with the posting riot in this game? The whole thread's turning into tl;dr.
Quote from DYH »
Holy crap, people, it's day one; quit following Az like sheep.
QFT.
Quote from Azrael »
These reads are painfully generalized and seem essentially baseless. You're using an analysis rake to try to catch and hold water. The scum can dodge around your general impressions as easily as breathing.
You won't be able to catch scum or truly identify townies until you start taking a harder look at individual posts, and try to figure out what that individual player is up to at any given moment, beneath the surface.
<insert sarcasm> Tell me then oh wizened master of the art of scum-hunting, can you point out some suspects based on their posts, I hear those are called PBPA's? <end sarcasm>
I'd be amazed if anyone could do a proper PBPA in this game with all the "clutter" posts so far. (yes, I'm guilty too, but at least I don't have 50+ of them to sort through)
<insert sarcasm> Tell me then oh wizened master of the art of scum-hunting, can you point out some suspects based on their posts, I hear those are called PBPA's? <end sarcasm>
I think I just got lectured on scum-hunting by Tilde. Hmm.
I would hazard the suggestion that PBPAs are not the only method of tracking down suspects in a detail-oriented manner...
Because I'm offering advice on how he should play as a townie, in case he actually is. I don't have an opinion yet since he's too fresh off the boat. In other words, its provisional.
Why did you feel the overwhelming need to nip the wagon in the bud before it got larger?
I was "freaking out" because I knew where this was headed; we were going to waste another week analyzing me because you said so, it was going to be a waste of time and annoy me greatly. Which it has.
Quote from Azrael »
Why so snippy? Why immediately?
I'm having a bad day, plain and simple. (See, iBug, this is how townies tell the truth when they don't have a good answer for what they did, instead of making stuff up. Then again, I don't think you're town, so that explains that.)
Quote from Azrael »
Which players on your wagon do you intend to counterattack, and why?
AsianInvasion was the first one to come back in the limelight, as I already noted, and I was suspicious of Talore's reasoning - but he was able to provide a comparable scenario (frankly, I thought he too was making stuff up), so I'm good there now. Don't like Syrenz's barn of TFF, he'd probably be next on my list.
The others: Manders (barns everyone- no read), TFF (at least asked a clarifying question), Vezok (already claimed scum traitor), and ~V~ (defiance reads townish, even if the vote reasoning is terrible) don't bother me at the moment. I'm still undecided on you, which is typical.
What's your response to my sentence by sentence reads on Ibug's post?
Ya know, I was getting ready to do an analysis of your analysis of iBug's post, Az, but it occurred to me that it doesn't matter. The problem I have with iBug isn't solved by reconciling our feelings about that post - the problem is that I think - no I know, because he admitted to it- that he made up a defense to cover the lack of thought process behind his actions regarding his voting/unvoting of you, and whether or not we see eye to eye on that last post doesn't matter. I'm of the opinion that townies don't make up lies when they are asked to explain why they did something - they simply tell why. I'm of the opinion that iBug got caught in a lie and had no other recourse but to claim what he did. What other option did he have left?
It's still an ongoing game (I've only been in three games and two are ongoing with me dead in them,) but Day 2 of CCMIV, Nacho Wizard made a case on Cyouni. Then everyone barned that case to l-2. Cyouni attacked each and every barn vote on that wagon. I eventually counter-claimed his doc claim after the heat died, his replacement also attacked the barn votes on him, then he died as scum. That's where I'm coming from in that respect.
I don't think speculation on how I format posts will go anywhere.
My speculation was that you had a role similar to a supersaint in that something would happen to whoever hammered you. I think miller is one such role, but I've never actually encountered it in a game and I could be completely wrong =P
I need more time to look at DYH. Regardless of the exact circumstances which I need to examine more closely, he is right - Azrael has been parading; cases have been brought against others, myself included, and have not drawn the attention that Azrael has brought to his. Does that make him more accurate - no, not necessarily if iBug has been superceded by DYH.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
Quoted for Truth. In my experience it's similar to saying "This" or something of the sort. Basically they're emphasizing what someone says and agreeing with it.
I'll respond to posts in a bit, I want to eat something first.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Quoted for Truth. In my experience it's similar to saying "This" or something of the sort. Basically they're emphasizing what someone says and agreeing with it.
I'll respond to posts in a bit, I want to eat something first.
Walk me through this as I don't understand. How does the fact that this is a bastard game make you claim cop?
It seems pretty clear from the context of your claim post that the cop claim was as a point to clear you, but you're saying that we should run it as a vanilla game, in which case claiming cop should do nada for you and claiming it would be pointless.
Just checking in at lunch to make sure no-on was about to do something daft like rushlynch DYH. Seems like not (apart from one or two enthusiasts). Keep it that way. More in probably 8 hours or so.
If he has claimed unlynchable shouldn't we lynch him?
No, everyone needs to weigh in on this before we do anything drastic. I want each player on the record regarding DYH in case this whole shindig goes south. Then DYH should get a chance to say whatever he wants before we try to lynch him.
Just checking in at lunch to make sure no-on was about to do something daft like rushlynch DYH. Seems like not (apart from one or two enthusiasts). Keep it that way. More in probably 8 hours or so.
Cool. In about ten months you should convince your firm that they need a freshly graduated American law student on their payroll.
Let me elaborate on my disbelief of Azrael unvoting from this post a little more. Read this post and tell me it doesn't smack of "what I think you're doing to me is what a scum would do". He accuses Azrael of 'pushing him so hard for answers he knows he can't properly give' and 'twisting his meanings intentionally' - again, he's insinuating that Azrael is not exhibiting town behavior. Yet, iBug is not voting Az; he's trying to get him off his back. Plain and simple. In fact, he just recently unvoted him.
I've seen town players try to push suspected scum until they break. That's exactly what I think Az was doing here, and I broke. I don't see this as scum play, I see this as scumhunting play. If it looks like I'm trying to paint Az as scummy throughout the thing, then that's unfortunate and it wasn't my overt intention. Of course there's going to be a little mudflinging as I was genuinely frustrated and being hounded. The first two sentences are vindictive, and I'll admit that, but they're also there to point out holes in what he's saying. Azzie looks town to me, because of how he hounded me until he was satisfied. I'm not going to hold that against him, but I also don't plan to turn a blind eye to anything scummy he might do just because I thought he was town.
Quote from DYH »
This after iBug was "leaning town on him (Az)" after saying he does things to "confuse people on purpose". He only came out with the part about meta for Azrael after it was discussed by others - iBug saying that initially was an accusation, not a compliment or even just a general statement. And now he's doing it again.
What part about meta for Azrael? I was asking if a hydra vote type thing happened frequently, it wasn't yet apparent to me that it was just an AzFoS. Of course nitially it was an accusation, because it looked scummy. I felt like he was trying to confuse people. I'm getting a sense you're frustrated by my thinking Az is town but accusing him of scummy things. I unvoted when I thought he was town, then there were (what I thought were) scumtells. Then that got resolved. What's the problem? That I didn't revote? It takes more for me to vote than to unvote.
Quote from DYH »
Maybe I'm wrong; so, I thought "could he be a townie afraid of Az?". I guess; except that he continues to fire right back. That doesn't make any sense. If he was just meekly succumbing to the pressure, that'd be one thing, but this guy's fiery. He's not afraid of Azrael - he's afraid of being caught.
I wasn't afraid of Azrael, I was tired of being hounded and feeling like I couldn't do anything about it.
Quote from DYH »
His mindset and his posts do not sync; this guy shouldn't be playing the "I don't take notes" and "I wasn't great at it [explaining my reasoning]" cards. Those are almost 'newbie excuses', and clearly this guy fancies himself a better player than that. This is why I'm especially confused that Az has moved off this wagon given his mafia theory background.
I fancy myself a better player than that? Hardly. I'm still trying to figure out how to play a town game. If you want to laugh at how horrible my scum game is, check out Kaizers. I hear we set the record for fastest Day 1 lynch.
Quote from DYH »
iBug has twisted himself up in so many knots, he can't lie his way out of it, so now he's relying on self-pity and feigned anger in a last-ditch attempt. Or are you seriously buying this townie righteous indignation act, Az?
There's a perfectly logical explanation for this, DYH, and you know it. I don't want to give him an out and I would like to see him explain why he can't remember what he was thinking, but there is.
I haven't been going back and rereading all the posts of mine that people are talking about, and just going off of memory. The suggestion to reread sections in order to regain a sense of why I posted is a good one, and something I'm now using, hopefully to greater effect.
General sense of the Manderspost: Looks Townie to me. Vote was explained well, meta reference seems appropriate (despite DYH's following backlash on it), nothing seems out of the ordinary. I like that she's not laying out everything she's thinking. It's a good call.
Manders, you really need to get over Highlander. And your last comment is ridiculous.
@Az: You think I'm trying to manipulate you? That'd be a new one.
Let me save you some time; I won't be getting lynched today.
Immediately DYH fires back attacking both MH and Az, cheap shots at both. I don't like this. Nor do I like the last line. You later mention that as an attempt to get the topic away from you, but you had to know that would only draw the attention of everyone here. Hell, I know something like that would draw the attention of everyone and put you in the spotlight, and this is my third game. I think you've got some ulterior motive going on, but I have no idea what it is. Whole post gives you scumpoints though.
Of course he didn't say anything about Az's meta initially; that's not the point - he was insinuating that what Az was doing (confusing people) was scummy. It was after the other people chimed in that suddenly he felt that way about it, too.
Are you even reading my posts? Until Zchinque mentioned not knowing what the hydravote was, I just assumed it was a multi-vote. Az's initial explanation also looked bad to me, so I reacted as I did. How do you not see that? Oh, right, you want me to look bad so you ignore my previous posts ABOUT THIS VERY TOPIC and try to smear me with it again. (See how I'm making negative statements about you? I think you're scummy.)
Quote from DYH »
I think the fact he's still arguing with Azrael means he has something to hide, yes. If he was the meek little townie he was playing to be, he wouldn't be taking shots back at him.
It's a natural response to take shots at someone who's taking shots at you. In fact it's quite difficult not to.
Uh, Az? It's kinda hard to say your attacker is deficient when everyone in it has made it quite clear your attacker is not (deficient). You don't call Albert Pujols a bad baseball player to his face.
Go back and read that post you quoted again. He doesn't say I'm calling him deficient, he's saying scum call their attacker deficient and that's not what I was doing. It does look like what you were doing with MH a couple posts back, however.
Accusations and emotions run hot in the biting cold of the storm-exacerbated air conditioning. Fingers are pointed; names are snarled; reason begins to slip ever so slowly away, in the face of fear and paranoia. The civilized face these delegates wear, it seems, is only so much cosmetics in the crucible of doubt.
Or so it seems. Above the half-screaming voices rises a single dulcet tone, young, but heavy with dignity; impassioned, ordered, and arguing for order in charismatic and persuasive tones. By infinitesimal degrees, as the speaker continues, the heat of paranoia begins to fade -- one, then another, then another, fall silent, until the speaker finishes his discourse to complete and utter silence.
Satisfied, he takes a seat once more. Murmurs are heard, and discussion begins again, but with the edge taken off, many shaking their heads and wondering just what they were thinking.
But the speaker himself knows this is but a temporary measure. On the morrow is another day, and until the danger is past that violent heat lurks just inches below each person's breast.
...still... that is another day. For today, his charisma has prevailed.
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Let's lynch him while he is away.
Then if he flips town lynch the Emirati delegate.
unvote
Vote DYH
Please explain your logic here. How would him being down make the Emirati delegate look scummy? Him being a traitor would be the only thing I could think of in that respect. If DYH flips scum, however, I think we need to consider the Emirati delegate a traitor possibility. But I also don't think that the emirati should come forward right now.
Oh, I see DYH has nothing to say about his behavior in Highlander, but had plenty to say about Duel Monsters. Subtle.
DYH just seems to be ignoring MH's posts now. I don't see this as a good thing. I know Manders put Vezok on ignore, but Vezok is crazed and difficult to understand at best. And I think she unignored him.
DYH at this point is mocking his attackers. Some of the votes do look like barning, as there isn't much explanation with them, but DYH is just taking shots at people.
And most of the people who voted iBug early on did so, too. Then, once he makes what I considered a huge scum tell, Ced and I are on his case, suddenly Az is off and now everyone (especially Manders, who even went so far as to join the argument Az and I were having about said tells) is on me.
Notice how the wild scum seizes on to the first point of small agreement and attempts to amplify it into supporting his own arguments. This newsflash brought to you by V's safari.
I don't like V's approach to what's happening here. He's taking cheap shots at DYH, trying to put him into a corner without actually presenting a case. Looks like a bus to me.
@TFF: I'd rather not reveal anything more than I have. The intention was to get the focus off me and back to relevant topics; you can see how well that's worked out.
You call him a sheep then ask him why he cares if you think he's a sheep? Mockery, sir. Mockery. DYH does point out some fishing from TFF here though.
Yes, the point of claiming was to get the attention off me and back to other topics. Because I knew (and ta da- was correct) that when Az started on me, the sheep were going to follow. I was trying to head it off at the pass.
Lies. You had to know this would put the spotlight on you. Az's wagon might have brought attention to you but you justified that attention completely with that line.
@Syrenz: If you don't think that was justification enough, I'd like to point you in the direction of this thread. Not happening. I'll die with that information in my hands before I reveal it.
I find your not willing to give up the information understandable. However, you shouldn't have hinted at it if you didn't want to give it up. That last sentence reads like a challenge, just like your declaration that you won't be lynched. You deserve every vote you get.
There is no KNOW in mafia all I have to go on are my reads, opinion, and experience. He sounds, feels, and acts like a frustrated townie. There is no hint of faking emotion that I can fin from that post. There is no reasonable way that i can see to not see him as town after a post like that.
My knowledge of his alignment comes completely from my reads of him, if i can trust no one else I can trust myself.
My gut tells me V is scum. This post feels scummy, but I can't point to anything in it to make me feel that way. When I really look at it, it looks townie. I don't why, but I feel like he's scum. But I also don't think he would have dropped off my wagon so quickly if that were the case. I don't know. I will sit on a fence.
OK, I'm not seeing the DYH thing and I'm really not seeing what IB did to placate az. In fact, I agree with DYH's analysis of IB's post more than az's justification to drop the case.
MH's vote was really bad, and she pretty much said "DYH WRONG VOTE DYH." She also should know better than to say ad hom is scummy - especially given recent conversations and games.
AI's vote on DYH is silly, because almost every "vet" I can think of has relied on a role to keep them from getting lynched at least once - and especially on Day 1.
~V~ has gone full blown az worship.
First line seems fine, and relatively townie to me. The rest of this post I don't like and makes me think scumbuddy.
This is the post where Nakamura added "reasons" for his thinking people were scum or town. There's not enough information or specifics here for any of this to be of any use other than making nakamura look bad. I still want this sentence in that giant list finished- "Not overly defensive, not a scum-hunter, and not"
This post has already been reviewed by other players, and I don't really have anything else to add to it.
I'm having a bad day, plain and simple. (See, iBug, this is how townies tell the truth when they don't have a good answer for what they did, instead of making stuff up. Then again, I don't think you're town, so that explains that.)
Thanks for the protip. I'll just be sure to say that I had a bad day and can't remember what I was thinking any time anyone asks me why I did something. I didn't just make things up. I posted what I could remember about any reasoning I had, and then filled in the holes with guesses. (I feel like I've written this before, but I can't seem to find it. Maybe because I'm tired.) Saying that I don't know why I did something sounds scummy as hell to me, which is why I avoided it.
No, everyone needs to weigh in on this before we do anything drastic. I want each player on the record regarding DYH in case this whole shindig goes south. Then DYH should get a chance to say whatever he wants before we try to lynch him.
I agree with this. I'm planning to vote for DYH once we finish discussing this (unless those discussions convince me otherwise, which I'm okay with), but not until we're all ready and DYH has had a chance to respond to the weekend's posts.
So by this point I have a strong feeling that DYH is scum. He's been attacking the wagon on him and everyone on it, claimed way to early supposedly to push everyone away from him while he should have known it would only draw more attention to him, and he has blatantly ignored Manders' meta comparisons. Consider my vote on him unofficially, as I don't want a preemptive lynch here.
edit: I see dC has made a post and that DYH is unlynchable today. I'm still posting this as I had written it before dC had posted, and I'll make another post to deal with what's just happened.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Okay, so the modpost complicates things. Unlike Vezok, however, I don't think this confirms DYH as town. This is a bastard game, and that is one hell of a bastard ability. I think DYH needs to be investigated, that role is definitely one we need to have more info on (alignment, and if we can get any other info on it as well that would be fantastic). I guess I'll unofficial unvote, as well.
I don't like how easily Vezok jumps targets. It's not so much that he's pointing at me, it's that he's willing to change who he's pointing at so quickly without (it looks like) much thought going.
I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I'd still like that analysis someone (skander I think?) asked for, vezok.
Anyway, I've been working on posts for this game for the past hour, so I'm done with that and going to bed.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
I suppose. I just can't help but read a little bit into it, like he's just playing with us.
Ah. If that works for you guys, that's cool I guess, but I obviously didn't see any reasoning behind it. Thanks for the explanations though.
I certainly didn't mean it to be the main reason of the attack, but I thought it added to it. I appear to be mistaken, however.
Noted.
I believe I understand it, yes.
I will go digging.
In light of what others have said about Az, I feel safe in an unvote at this time. I will go do some Shrek Mafia digging of my posts to show you my seeming.
That's what it looks like, so that's what I said. I don't see much other purpose to it. Is it possible that he has multivotes? Sure. But he makes it sound like he does this frequently, so obviously he does it to mess with people.
Maybe he's trying to troll for reactions, maybe he's trying to draw scum away from power roles, maybe he actually has multivotes.
I unvoted because I'm getting the feeling he's town. That doesn't mean I stop questioning what he's doing.
DYH: You are going to need to explain to me in small words and big writing WTF this "lie" thing is meant to be in 387 and 393. I think you're saying ibug accusing Az of intentionally confusing people to be the equivalent of calling Az scum, which would be inconsistent with 358 and 393. But that's an awful stretch, especially since ibug even explains in 393 (an entire 13 minutes after 387) why confusing doesn't necessarily mean scum. Not to mention that saying Azrael is intentionally confusing is like saying water is wet. It's not an untrue accusation, is it now?
Wagon on DYH: is pretty terrible in how it has stacked up, perhaps not in how it started. Something is not right ("bad day" or not) in DYH's reactions here- the explanation of wanting to save time is incredibly pants, I can't believe DYH thought that pulling the lynch-protection card would cause people to say "oh, ok then, go be scummy elsewhere". DYH is also familiar with the strategy of waving a "definitely town" ability around in the open good and early to establish "townieness". Recalling Court Mafia, and also bateleur's role on day 1 in Trek Mafia. Need more time and sleep on this... and since DYH has now pushed the button on his ability, I guess I'll get that chance.
Oh, and re: Trek Mafia, I mean of course the original (run I think in 2005 or 2006) and not the more recent one. The one where bateleur was a scum with a double-life.
Geez, I forget how long it's been, most people here probably don't know what Court Mafia was (shame!).
In Court Mafia (run in late 06/early 07), DYH had some temporary extra votes available. By waving them around on day 1 he convinced everyone straight away that he must be town (he was scum).
Also brings to mind carrion pigeons' "look at me I have a multivote I must be town" moment on day 1 of Matrix Mafia, which also had everyone believing he was town (unfortunately for him, he got killed by the SK - me, as it happened. But it did convince people he was town!).
@Ced - You asked for post #s on DYH blowing up as scum in Highlander.
I just looked them over, and it appears I was recalling incorrectly. He kept his cool quite well while under pressure.
That coupled with his use of his ability leads to an Unvote.
I am currently working on a re-read and will be back with an analysis on the players as well as a vote.
I think DYH needs to be investigated, that role is definitely one we need to have more info on (alignment, and if we can get any other info on it as well that would be fantastic).
Would the Saudi Arabian "Delegate" like to step forward?
I still think it's worth testing the lynch, bastard mod IS bastard after all.
I am not taking cheep shots, the case from me is very simple, he refused to back down after a post that made you look completely town. Unlike everyone else on your wagon however he pushed the point that you were probably lying without any reasonable evidence. And then when called on this by multiple people he defended it by saying "your all just following az leave me alone"
@vezok I've been doing a bit of research, I believe that CED was cleared in oots for basically the same thing and then proceeded to win in the endgame because of it. You may correct me if I am mistaken.
@Manders, what if the mod his role only makes the mod lie to us? could THAT be a scum roll? I think this needs tested.
@Manders, what if the mod his role only makes the mod lie to us? could THAT be a scum roll? I think this needs tested.
I have no idea, man. No clue.
Ok, analysis time:
Wrath of DoG: absolutely no read. Hopefully he'll get everything straightened out, or he'll be replaced because this is getting ridiculous.
dropkickdude: Really not much on him either. The whole "TFF is scum for saying he has a name" thing still bothers me because it was such a small thing to vote for, but meh. He's neutral to me.
RafaelK: Gut town read on him. This is really the first time I've played with him, so I don't know how to read him.
Talore: Seems to be sitting in the shadows posting here and there, but I don't know. My gut is telling me he's town because I believe I've heard he's terrible. (no offense meant)
AsianInvasion: IMO, he is an extremely zealous townie. I haven't seen anything too scummy from him so far.
Nom_Anor: Claimed cop, but I haven't discounted the possibility he's a scum cop. He hasn't done much of anything in this game.
BTW, for anyone who didn't see, there is now scum meta for NA. South Park Mafia.
And he didn't do much of anything there, either.
ced395: Since the misunderstanding at the beginning, I have gotten nothing but town reads from him. Strong town lead, imo.
DYH: Claimed Governor (I guess). Nothing about that role guarantees he's town. As scum, DYH has a tendency to jump on people for weak tells and dog them to claim range. The first instance of this was post #178 where he said TFF proposing a "name claim" was scummy because we don't have names. The second, with Az recently. I still greatly dislike his attempts at discrediting his wagon by calling us all sheep.
Nakamura: Needs to post more. I'm not impressed with what I've seen so far.
~Tilde~: Yeah, this is where my vote is going. He's provided nothing to the thread and has been spewing his toxic, nonsense theories since the beginning. PBPA on him in the next post.
Skander: Every post I read from him reminds me of Family Mafia. He reads 100% genuine townie to me. If he turns up scum, I quit mafia.
Ace: Nothing. Please post more.
Azrael: I really want to believe that Az is town, but I know he's good enough to fool everyone on his alignment, so I don't think I'll ever fully trust him.
~V~: After re-reading his posts, they seem to come from a town mentality. He seems to have trouble expressing what he's wanting to say. Since I have that same problem on a regular basis, I can understand that.
tordeckSyrenz: tordeck didn't provide much, but Syrenz seems town atm.
Of course, the two scum games under his belt, Syrenz seemed town much of the games, too.
Some One: I disagree with everyone saying he seems scum. I actually have no read on him. Please post more.
indomitablebug: I believe he suffers from the same thing I posted about ~V~. The more he posts, the better I feel about him.
Emo_Pinata: Gut town read on him.
Zchinque: The only thing I had on him was the invisibility, but since I've decided to drop that argument, he seems town to me.
vezokpiraka: Ugh. Claimed traitor who has previously stated he will hurt the town if we don't lynch him. I would love to lynch him, but only because I can't stand his playstyle. That is not enough for a lynch, though.
TheFooFish: I get town vibes from him, but nothing extremely definite. Leaning town, but would like to see more out of him.
RafaelK's post in 160 doesn't sound like something a Politician might say. It sounds like something from a motivational speaker... or a Scientologist... who's OD'ed on Kool-Aid.
Interesting. You have a retinue large enough to see to the evacuation of the normal staff and you're apparently PERSONALLY capable of dealing with a terrorist. That doesn't sound like any Politician I know of. (Example - The Secret Service is there to protect the President, POTUS should NEVER have to deal with something like a mad bomber directly.)
Ugh, this game is giving me a migraine trying to follow. I will say that Az's numerous comments this game read as scummy to me. He tends to be quiet during the early game as town, trying to avoid notice. This game he's being noisy and acting confident.
Unvote
Calls Az out for seeming scummy, but nothing further than that. At the time he made this post, I thought he was making it seem like he was voting for Az and unvoted, but that wasn't the case.
Because I was looking for what Az's response would be to my comment without any sort of vote influence.
That said, the "lol" response speaks volumes. I think Az has been saying a lot, but not been LOOKING very hard for scum. he hasn't even proposed an AzPlantm yet this game.
I take note of this comment in particular:
If you're town, you'd already have been a high-priority target for the scum at the start of the game. You wouldn't become a better target as the day rolled on.
In short, Az is acting like someone who began this game knowing more than a Townie should, so... Vote Azrael
His "in short" reasoning for voting Az makes no sense with the rest of the post, therefore this is another vote with no reason as I see it.
If you're lynched today, you're not going to be in any position to provide ability results. Corpses aren't talkative. Threatening us with an alignment switch reads more like you being a jester trying to win, except that I seem to recall dC mentioning how much he HATED jesters. Even in a bastard-mod game I can't see him putting a jester role in the game.
re: claims from Vez and NA - Ick. However, this game is messing with our standard concepts so much I can see the reasoning behind their doing it. The "ignore the bastardry and play it as vanilla" is an interesting take on it.
re: MandersHex - Don't like his belligerent attitude. Seems like he's demanding answers every other post. Overzealous townie, or scum hiding fishing attempts with mock aggression/frustration?
Go ahead and shout OMGUS at this. <censored> Rationality for this game. Unvote, Vote MandersHex
His statements in regards to me make it seem like he's on the fence, then he votes me, stating that I would shout OMGUS. In fact, I never did see an answer to my question.
Why did you think I would shout OMGUS at this? I wasn't voting for you, and you provided reasons, whether I agree with them or not.
All players are traitors, there is no mafia at the start of the game and the only way for the town to win is to vote for a no lynch day 1 because whenever a player dies, it triggers the traitor switch on another player.
<end totally unbelieveable theory. We now return to your game, already in progress>
Gah. What is with the posting riot in this game? The whole thread's turning into tl;dr.
QFT.
<insert sarcasm> Tell me then oh wizened master of the art of scum-hunting, can you point out some suspects based on their posts, I hear those are called PBPA's? <end sarcasm>
I'd be amazed if anyone could do a proper PBPA in this game with all the "clutter" posts so far. (yes, I'm guilty too, but at least I don't have 50+ of them to sort through)
See, he has provided nothing to the game except fluff and insane theories. I've seen no relevant scum hunting and am quite confident in this:
You're going to need to learn how to be more specific and focused than that in your analysis.
These reads are painfully generalized and seem essentially baseless. You're using an analysis rake to try to catch and hold water. The scum can dodge around your general impressions as easily as breathing.
You won't be able to catch scum or truly identify townies until you start taking a harder look at individual posts, and try to figure out what that individual player is up to at any given moment, beneath the surface.
Ah, okay.
I'll make sure to be more detailed next time (and, hopefully, that "next time" will be later today).
Geez, I forget how long it's been, most people here probably don't know what Court Mafia was (shame!).
In Court Mafia (run in late 06/early 07), DYH had some temporary extra votes available. By waving them around on day 1 he convinced everyone straight away that he must be town (he was scum).
Also brings to mind carrion pigeons' "look at me I have a multivote I must be town" moment on day 1 of Matrix Mafia, which also had everyone believing he was town (unfortunately for him, he got killed by the SK - me, as it happened. But it did convince people he was town!).
It didn't read like DYH was trying to say he was town because of his ability, just that he was saying good luck lynching him. At least that's how I read it.
I'm still leaning town on DYH, probably because I can emphasize with breakdowns.
And, per the "scum hunter" comment, I always thought it was bad to be one. Guess not? Haha.
Wait what?
Ah, okay.
I'll make sure to be more detailed next time (and, hopefully, that "next time" will be later today).
Really waiting on this because you have me severely confused right now.
Nom_Anor: Claimed cop, but I haven't discounted the possibility he's a scum cop. He hasn't done much of anything in this game.
BTW, for anyone who didn't see, there is now scum meta for NA. South Park Mafia.
And he didn't do much of anything there, either.
That would make this post by Nom pretty disingenuous:
I'm sorry, but I've been town constantly, and getting obvscum labels all over me in both this and the other game I'm in has gotten me pretty unhappy: you're welcome to call me scum all you want when I'm actually ☺☺☺☺ing scum. Seriously, do you know how many times I've been lynched as town, despite never once being scum (the answer is twelvish, I think).
And I came out as cop because this is a bastard mod game.
What's the point in being a cop if I'm just going to get lies thrown at me. I'm with az here: we might as well just run it as vanilla.
So yeah, I feel great. Let's lynch us some scum.
I think people are allowing this guy too much leeway. I'm not sure if the comparison to claiming SK as town is even valid. Claiming SK, while stupid, was some sort of plan that lined up. Over here, his mindset has not at all been consistent and the above post reads entirely falsely with the revelation that he was scum in the other game he was talking about.
That would make this post by Nom pretty disingenuous:
I think people are allowing this guy too much leeway. I'm not sure if the comparison to claiming SK as town is even valid. Claiming SK, while stupid, was some sort of plan that lined up. Over here, his mindset has not at all been consistent and the above post reads entirely falsely with the revelation that he was scum in the other game he was talking about.
You're right, Skander. When I read that post, I thought he jumped to that defense because it's no longer the case and he knows it while others do not. However, I already knew he was scum in SP (Ace told me) so I wasn't (and still am not) sure if it was this game or that he had in mind.
I'm giving the unCCd cop the benefit of the doubt for now.
I've got a conflicting read on AsianInvasion. On the one hand, there's stuff like this:
Oh hey, let's mindlessly attack the votes on you.
But, I did like his last post. I've seen him attacking the votes on the wagon on him (including the /barn votes) but I'm wondering now if that's just his normal play.
@other people: Does AI attack everyone voting him as town/scum?
@: Other people
I don't particularly like the votes on vezokpiraka, seems like something to get a ball rolling, and as stated before, vez does that as town.
This game is moving quite fast, working on some stuff
An easy, if valid, quip at AI, but goes on to fencesit some more.
I like how he does't like the votes on Vez, more on that later.
This whole post was painful to read. Random stuff, and nothing at all original.
Post moar
I commented on this post that I found it amusing. Why? Because the post by SO that Talore was criticizing had about as much content as Talore himself had presented all game.
Actually yeah, Vote: Some One Convince me otherwise.
Just a follow up to his last post with a vote. No reasons given (and no, I don't consider what he came up with in his last post as reasons for a vote).
Not scummy per se, but it made me feel uneasy.
This is really really silly. Manders, do you know why MTGSalvation has an invisible mode? It wasn't made so that scum could lurk without detection. It was made for privacy. Gleaning anything else from that is logically unsound. If you wish to counter this, I'm open.
1) It's not unbelievable, but it's also not evidence, and therefore shouldn't be factored into any of these descisions.
2) I once guessed that one of my metalhead friends didn't listen to rap. I was right. This doesn't mean that the next metalhead I meet doesn't listen to rap.
3) He's unwilling to answer the question because it's a stupid question.
1) It isn't evidence in the sense that you're using it in, because people do it regardless of alignment
2) I don't intend to condescend anyone, but I can't really help how I sound. Whether someone has always played invisible or not hold no bearing on their intentions. There a thousand possible explanations for which him being scum is only one. Perhaps one only discovers invisible mode recently. The point is that people do other things on this site than play mafia, and if they want more privacy, then that's what they want
Let me now show you a scenario where a townie initiated invisible mode. Perhaps said townie is like me, unable to take scope of whole games, and only works on certain leads they happen upon at a time. Or also like me, they have their control panel as a homepage and check it every time they boot up their browser. Nobody rational expects somebody to post every time they read the thread, especially at the frequency that I do. They don't want to be accused of lurking for being seen reading the thread without posting, because (a) a mislynch harms their team and (b) they will be unable to provide insight for their team due to death. Invisible mode seems an optimal choice here.
3) Stupid, silly, logically unsound, loaded, pick your words, I don't care. It's just not a good question.
I'm not so much defending his choice than I am attacking your reasoning. If I didn't, you'd likely be unaware of the negative side of assuming such a stance. Plus matters of privacy are, well, private.
I'll just group these three together.
What's in these posts doesn't really bother me. I tend to agree with Talore over Manders on the question at hand.
What bothers me is what isn't here. By this point a wagon was forming on iBug, and a couple of peeps were still attacking Az. So far he has not said anything about either, except for the comment about ~V~'s vote on Az, way back when. Apparently it's more important to have an argument with Manders about the use of invisibility mode, which originaly didn't concern him, than comment on any of the other topics.
I'm having some attention problems right now. I've been working on an analysis post but it's going to have to wait a bit. I really don't like Nom claiming like that (or Vezok for that matter) and it is reminiscent for me of Goo Mafia (ongoing).
I'll give my list of reads as it is so far, though I leave the explaination for later.
TOWN
-
LEANING TOWN
MandersHex
NEUTRAL
iBug, Vezok, AsianInvasion, Nom_Anor
LEANING SCUM
Azrael, Some_One
SCUM
-
Also, I asked some posts back about AsianInvasion's meta, could anyone respond to that?
Why only seven players on your list? Only one town read? What do you mean by your neutral category, seeing as you have left out most of the players in the game?
I'm still working on that post I mentioned last night, and I really really hope to have it done within the next 2 hours (I work slow). But, i just wanted to point out this post. What the flying hell. I can't even begin to comprehend this, because I know of vezoks horrendous record as town doing scummy things, but this is horrendously scummy with the complete absence of reason, and a sense of deflection, even though he just claimed that he wants to die, or else he'll give the scum investigation results. It doesn't make any flipping sense and although I know that there's a 0.001% chance that a jester was put into this game... I just don't understand. If he didn't claim I'd say he really needs to be vigged or otherwise verified, but with his claim there's a huge steaming pile of WIFOM that I can't comprehend.
Yesyes, Vez' posts are awful, we know that. But where is the deflection you mention? And why is this, in your opinion, now suddenly scummyVez, while you earlier didn't like votes on Vez for posts that, to me, look pretty damn similar?
MandersHex- Seems to have put herself out there in the open a lot. I don't liek the tone of some of her questions, but it seems a foolish thing for scum to become so involved like that. I'm not putting on the blinders though...
iBug- Made some really wierd and scummy posts, but has had, I think, a reasonable defense for himself. Another one to watch, and I think I must re-read his latest posts to update this read.
Vezok- Not so much neutral as in what the hell. I absolutely do not trust him, but discarding roles I would want him dead for his latest vote, and behavior regarding the wagons.
AsianInvasion- Originally leaning scum, I think that was because of my own prejudice of a previous game lingering in there -_- and his attitude, which I have seen in too many games to think it's scummy. I don't have tome in the near future to skim posts in his blog, but I'll be sure to get to it sometime. One thing I didn't like that you did AI was make those statements like 'If X is town than Y is scum,' 'there is at least N scum within the group of X, Y, and Z,' and so forth. But I know you did that as town previously, so
Nom_Anor- He's moved from neutral to leaning scum. It makes no sense to claim cop as town there, but neither does it as scum. The only reasonable explanation is either he's throwing out a 'safe' claim early to dispel suspicion of him. But, others have noted that he tends to be really impulsive and kind of... crazy, so I'll temper my own read here in light of that.
Azrael- Would be neutral or leaning town, but I don't like some of the ways he clung onto iBug in the face of defenses, where he made concessions but didn't change his own views (as far as I could tell from the text)
Some One- Jumps into the game with a contentless post and a barn, hopping onto the popular wagon with little reasoning, and none of his own. He had a real chest-bump attitude, like 'yeah you guys are awesome, and I agree with you, let's kill this scum!'
Nothing really yet on anyone else.
The "I'm not cut out for analysis posts" sounds like a huge copout when you've already promised it several times.
It is a very strange claim of his... it's also strange that he would claim under 3 votes or so.
I believe the correct play is to test his unlynchability.
Unvote; Vote DYH
Is it possible that DYH is something to a super saint, in that something happens to whoever hammers him/her? Also, a scum with a higher lynch threshold (like 1 or 2 more than normal) is plausible.I second the request for a list of reads from vezokpiraka. However, I wouldn't require his read on everyone, because many haven't posted enough to make a read do-able.
I especially didn't like DYH's sheep comment, attacking barning on a wagon always seems like a scummy thing.
I feel significantly better about Azrael now, regarding his latest interactions with iBug.
You want to "test his unlynchability"? Even though he has said there are negative side effects to it? Why?
Why do you feel that attacking barn votes is scummy?
Why do you feel better about Az?
Not everything in Wheel of Time revolves around Rand al'Thor and not everything here has revolved around Azrael. That is represented by wagons/votes that Az had nothing to do with.
I do love the WoT references though
You claimed unlynchable, no? Would it not make sense to test this claim? And, I might ask, is that a barn, or original thought?
Err... what wagons did Az not have anything to with?
It's still an ongoing game (I've only been in three games and two are ongoing with me dead in them,) but Day 2 of CCMIV, Nacho Wizard made a case on Cyouni. Then everyone barned that case to l-2. Cyouni attacked each and every barn vote on that wagon. I eventually counter-claimed his doc claim after the heat died, his replacement also attacked the barn votes on him, then he died as scum. That's where I'm coming from in that respect.
I don't think speculation on how I format posts will go anywhere.
My speculation was that you had a role similar to a supersaint in that something would happen to whoever hammered you. I think miller is one such role, but I've never actually encountered it in a game and I could be completely wrong =P
So, scum will attack barn votes on them, and thus it is scummy to attack barn votes?
I've not read Clan Mafia, so I can't comment any on that point.
Going over it like this, it's not quite as bad as I had imagined.
Talore is still high on my scumlist, but I'm not sure I want to move my vote over there just now. I need to read and mull some more.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Picross 3D
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
@skander if he is town then he wouldn't have lied to us so lynching him is the right play either way.if he's town he wont get lynched (win) and if he's scum he will be (win). This makes sure that our bastard mod didn't lie to us.
You're right, Skander. When I read that post, I thought he jumped to that defense because it's no longer the case and he knows it while others do not. However, I already knew he was scum in SP (Ace told me) so I wasn't (and still am not) sure if it was this game or that he had in mind.
I'm giving the unCCd cop the benefit of the doubt for now.
But he clearly mentions this game and the other game he's in. He's referring to both. Which as I've said, is a pretty false expression from him.
I'll probably PBPA him soon since he has only 10 or so posts and he's really bugging me.
@skander if he is town then he wouldn't have lied to us so lynching him is the right play either way.if he's town he wont get lynched (win) and if he's scum he will be (win). This makes sure that our bastard mod didn't lie to us.
The problem is that he's claimed some sort of harmful side-effect if we attempt to lynch him. And from where I'm sitting, it's extremely unlikely to claim to be able to stop himself from being lynched after just a couple of votes and not actually have that ability - he would know that people would be tempted to test it. So he is pretty much guaranteed to be unlynchable regardless of alignment.
So we're going to try to prove something that doesn't need to be proven and if he's town we're going to trigger some harmful side-effect. Not my idea of fun.
And once we start worrying about the bastard mod lying, it could be that the bastard mod also lied to DYH about the ability and really it doesn't prevent a lynch. So we could be lynching a townie that thinks he's unlynchable now because the bastard mod lied to him.
Does your ability waste the day's lynch?
Bolded above.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
What I've read from him didn't lead me to believe was Mafia.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
You should finish this sentence from your explanation.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Ow.
You're going to need to learn how to be more specific and focused than that in your analysis.
These reads are painfully generalized and seem essentially baseless. You're using an analysis rake to try to catch and hold water. The scum can dodge around your general impressions as easily as breathing.
You won't be able to catch scum or truly identify townies until you start taking a harder look at individual posts, and try to figure out what that individual player is up to at any given moment, beneath the surface.
You are assuming he's town. Why?
O.o
Didn't even realize that he'd deleted you and DYH from the list second time round. Something's wrong here...
And I'm not sure why not a scum hunter is a good thing.
QFT.
<insert sarcasm> Tell me then oh wizened master of the art of scum-hunting, can you point out some suspects based on their posts, I hear those are called PBPA's? <end sarcasm>
I'd be amazed if anyone could do a proper PBPA in this game with all the "clutter" posts so far. (yes, I'm guilty too, but at least I don't have 50+ of them to sort through)
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
I think I just got lectured on scum-hunting by Tilde. Hmm.
I would hazard the suggestion that PBPAs are not the only method of tracking down suspects in a detail-oriented manner...
Because I'm offering advice on how he should play as a townie, in case he actually is. I don't have an opinion yet since he's too fresh off the boat. In other words, its provisional.
In the meantime, DYH should answer Az' 778 which is at least more succinct than the rest of this argument.
Witness, party, or attorney?
I was "freaking out" because I knew where this was headed; we were going to waste another week analyzing me because you said so, it was going to be a waste of time and annoy me greatly. Which it has.
I'm having a bad day, plain and simple. (See, iBug, this is how townies tell the truth when they don't have a good answer for what they did, instead of making stuff up. Then again, I don't think you're town, so that explains that.)
AsianInvasion was the first one to come back in the limelight, as I already noted, and I was suspicious of Talore's reasoning - but he was able to provide a comparable scenario (frankly, I thought he too was making stuff up), so I'm good there now. Don't like Syrenz's barn of TFF, he'd probably be next on my list.
The others: Manders (barns everyone- no read), TFF (at least asked a clarifying question), Vezok (already claimed scum traitor), and ~V~ (defiance reads townish, even if the vote reasoning is terrible) don't bother me at the moment. I'm still undecided on you, which is typical.
No, that person is unable to be lynched.
Ya know, I was getting ready to do an analysis of your analysis of iBug's post, Az, but it occurred to me that it doesn't matter. The problem I have with iBug isn't solved by reconciling our feelings about that post - the problem is that I think - no I know, because he admitted to it- that he made up a defense to cover the lack of thought process behind his actions regarding his voting/unvoting of you, and whether or not we see eye to eye on that last post doesn't matter. I'm of the opinion that townies don't make up lies when they are asked to explain why they did something - they simply tell why. I'm of the opinion that iBug got caught in a lie and had no other recourse but to claim what he did. What other option did he have left?
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
You disgust me, immensely.
Ya need a lawyer? - loran can help you
JURY!!!
I need more time to look at DYH. Regardless of the exact circumstances which I need to examine more closely, he is right - Azrael has been parading; cases have been brought against others, myself included, and have not drawn the attention that Azrael has brought to his. Does that make him more accurate - no, not necessarily if iBug has been superceded by DYH.
Like how I didn't notice that Nom Anor posted without answering my questions until DYH quoted him.
I'm sorry, I can't find your questions. What were they?
Quoted for Truth. In my experience it's similar to saying "This" or something of the sort. Basically they're emphasizing what someone says and agreeing with it.
I'll respond to posts in a bit, I want to eat something first.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
This guy is bugging me.
Boom-Tish.
Psst. He said he did that already.
Besides there's no chance that he would falsely claim that ability so early (unless of course he's a Jester :D, maybe everyone's a Jester! :ria:).
Attorney.
Just checking in at lunch to make sure no-on was about to do something daft like rushlynch DYH. Seems like not (apart from one or two enthusiasts). Keep it that way. More in probably 8 hours or so.
No, everyone needs to weigh in on this before we do anything drastic. I want each player on the record regarding DYH in case this whole shindig goes south. Then DYH should get a chance to say whatever he wants before we try to lynch him.
Cool. In about ten months you should convince your firm that they need a freshly graduated American law student on their payroll.
What part about meta for Azrael? I was asking if a hydra vote type thing happened frequently, it wasn't yet apparent to me that it was just an AzFoS. Of course nitially it was an accusation, because it looked scummy. I felt like he was trying to confuse people. I'm getting a sense you're frustrated by my thinking Az is town but accusing him of scummy things. I unvoted when I thought he was town, then there were (what I thought were) scumtells. Then that got resolved. What's the problem? That I didn't revote? It takes more for me to vote than to unvote.
I wasn't afraid of Azrael, I was tired of being hounded and feeling like I couldn't do anything about it.
I fancy myself a better player than that? Hardly. I'm still trying to figure out how to play a town game. If you want to laugh at how horrible my scum game is, check out Kaizers. I hear we set the record for fastest Day 1 lynch.
I haven't been going back and rereading all the posts of mine that people are talking about, and just going off of memory. The suggestion to reread sections in order to regain a sense of why I posted is a good one, and something I'm now using, hopefully to greater effect.
General sense of the Manderspost: Looks Townie to me. Vote was explained well, meta reference seems appropriate (despite DYH's following backlash on it), nothing seems out of the ordinary. I like that she's not laying out everything she's thinking. It's a good call.
I don't get this reference.
Immediately DYH fires back attacking both MH and Az, cheap shots at both. I don't like this. Nor do I like the last line. You later mention that as an attempt to get the topic away from you, but you had to know that would only draw the attention of everyone here. Hell, I know something like that would draw the attention of everyone and put you in the spotlight, and this is my third game. I think you've got some ulterior motive going on, but I have no idea what it is. Whole post gives you scumpoints though.
Are you even reading my posts? Until Zchinque mentioned not knowing what the hydravote was, I just assumed it was a multi-vote. Az's initial explanation also looked bad to me, so I reacted as I did. How do you not see that? Oh, right, you want me to look bad so you ignore my previous posts ABOUT THIS VERY TOPIC and try to smear me with it again. (See how I'm making negative statements about you? I think you're scummy.)
It's a natural response to take shots at someone who's taking shots at you. In fact it's quite difficult not to.
Go back and read that post you quoted again. He doesn't say I'm calling him deficient, he's saying scum call their attacker deficient and that's not what I was doing. It does look like what you were doing with MH a couple posts back, however.
I really don't like this. This really smells like he's trying to pull someone down or turn them before going out.
While I am tempted to take a break at this point, something tells me the number of posts left to go over would double if I did.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Or so it seems. Above the half-screaming voices rises a single dulcet tone, young, but heavy with dignity; impassioned, ordered, and arguing for order in charismatic and persuasive tones. By infinitesimal degrees, as the speaker continues, the heat of paranoia begins to fade -- one, then another, then another, fall silent, until the speaker finishes his discourse to complete and utter silence.
Satisfied, he takes a seat once more. Murmurs are heard, and discussion begins again, but with the edge taken off, many shaking their heads and wondering just what they were thinking.
But the speaker himself knows this is but a temporary measure. On the morrow is another day, and until the danger is past that violent heat lurks just inches below each person's breast.
...still... that is another day. For today, his charisma has prevailed.
DYH may not be lynched today.
----------------------------------------------------
Votecount:
DYH (8) - Azrael, MandersHex, AsianInvasion, TheFooFish, vezokpiraka, ~V~, Talore, Syrenz
indomitablebug (7) - Zchinque, Some One. dropkickdude, ced395, DYH, Emo_Pinata, Nakamura
Nom Anor (1) - Skander
Azrael (1) - Wrath_of_DoG
AsianInvasion (1) - RafaelK
vezokpiraka (1) - Nom Anor
MandersHex (1) - ~Tilde~
With 22 alive, it is 12 to lynch.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
So DYH is probably confirmed town just cause this role is impossible for scum.
lets lynch bug then,
unvote
Vote bug
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Please explain your logic here. How would him being down make the Emirati delegate look scummy? Him being a traitor would be the only thing I could think of in that respect. If DYH flips scum, however, I think we need to consider the Emirati delegate a traitor possibility. But I also don't think that the emirati should come forward right now.
This further reassures me that MH is town. I also support pushing for an analysis from vezok, though I expect it to be a futile attempt.
DYH just seems to be ignoring MH's posts now. I don't see this as a good thing. I know Manders put Vezok on ignore, but Vezok is crazed and difficult to understand at best. And I think she unignored him.
I remember on my previous read this post pinged scumdars. I don't see anything wrong with it, can other people help me out here?
DYH at this point is mocking his attackers. Some of the votes do look like barning, as there isn't much explanation with them, but DYH is just taking shots at people.
Which post are you talking about here? #663? (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=5732815&postcount=663)
I don't like V's approach to what's happening here. He's taking cheap shots at DYH, trying to put him into a corner without actually presenting a case. Looks like a bus to me.
You call him a sheep then ask him why he cares if you think he's a sheep? Mockery, sir. Mockery. DYH does point out some fishing from TFF here though.
Lies. You had to know this would put the spotlight on you. Az's wagon might have brought attention to you but you justified that attention completely with that line.
I find your not willing to give up the information understandable. However, you shouldn't have hinted at it if you didn't want to give it up. That last sentence reads like a challenge, just like your declaration that you won't be lynched. You deserve every vote you get.
My gut tells me V is scum. This post feels scummy, but I can't point to anything in it to make me feel that way. When I really look at it, it looks townie. I don't why, but I feel like he's scum. But I also don't think he would have dropped off my wagon so quickly if that were the case. I don't know. I will sit on a fence.
Continues to mock the wagon on him.
Clearly your fellow game players disagree.
First line seems fine, and relatively townie to me. The rest of this post I don't like and makes me think scumbuddy.
-working on it. More at the end of this post.
This is the post where Nakamura added "reasons" for his thinking people were scum or town. There's not enough information or specifics here for any of this to be of any use other than making nakamura look bad. I still want this sentence in that giant list finished- "Not overly defensive, not a scum-hunter, and not"
This post has already been reviewed by other players, and I don't really have anything else to add to it.
Thanks for the protip. I'll just be sure to say that I had a bad day and can't remember what I was thinking any time anyone asks me why I did something. I didn't just make things up. I posted what I could remember about any reasoning I had, and then filled in the holes with guesses. (I feel like I've written this before, but I can't seem to find it. Maybe because I'm tired.) Saying that I don't know why I did something sounds scummy as hell to me, which is why I avoided it.
I really wish I had something clever to respond to this with.
I agree with this. I'm planning to vote for DYH once we finish discussing this (unless those discussions convince me otherwise, which I'm okay with), but not until we're all ready and DYH has had a chance to respond to the weekend's posts.
So by this point I have a strong feeling that DYH is scum. He's been attacking the wagon on him and everyone on it, claimed way to early supposedly to push everyone away from him while he should have known it would only draw more attention to him, and he has blatantly ignored Manders' meta comparisons. Consider my vote on him unofficially, as I don't want a preemptive lynch here.
edit: I see dC has made a post and that DYH is unlynchable today. I'm still posting this as I had written it before dC had posted, and I'll make another post to deal with what's just happened.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
I don't like how easily Vezok jumps targets. It's not so much that he's pointing at me, it's that he's willing to change who he's pointing at so quickly without (it looks like) much thought going.
I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I'd still like that analysis someone (skander I think?) asked for, vezok.
Anyway, I've been working on posts for this game for the past hour, so I'm done with that and going to bed.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
ibug's 387 (regarding Azrael's "Hydravote"):
ibug's 393:
DYH: You are going to need to explain to me in small words and big writing WTF this "lie" thing is meant to be in 387 and 393. I think you're saying ibug accusing Az of intentionally confusing people to be the equivalent of calling Az scum, which would be inconsistent with 358 and 393. But that's an awful stretch, especially since ibug even explains in 393 (an entire 13 minutes after 387) why confusing doesn't necessarily mean scum. Not to mention that saying Azrael is intentionally confusing is like saying water is wet. It's not an untrue accusation, is it now?
Wagon on DYH: is pretty terrible in how it has stacked up, perhaps not in how it started. Something is not right ("bad day" or not) in DYH's reactions here- the explanation of wanting to save time is incredibly pants, I can't believe DYH thought that pulling the lynch-protection card would cause people to say "oh, ok then, go be scummy elsewhere". DYH is also familiar with the strategy of waving a "definitely town" ability around in the open good and early to establish "townieness". Recalling Court Mafia, and also bateleur's role on day 1 in Trek Mafia. Need more time and sleep on this... and since DYH has now pushed the button on his ability, I guess I'll get that chance.
In Court Mafia (run in late 06/early 07), DYH had some temporary extra votes available. By waving them around on day 1 he convinced everyone straight away that he must be town (he was scum).
Also brings to mind carrion pigeons' "look at me I have a multivote I must be town" moment on day 1 of Matrix Mafia, which also had everyone believing he was town (unfortunately for him, he got killed by the SK - me, as it happened. But it did convince people he was town!).
I just looked them over, and it appears I was recalling incorrectly. He kept his cool quite well while under pressure.
That coupled with his use of his ability leads to an Unvote.
I am currently working on a re-read and will be back with an analysis on the players as well as a vote.
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-If it was his ability, it would be kind of silly.
Would the Saudi Arabian "Delegate" like to step forward?
We'll have to do this later then.
I am not taking cheep shots, the case from me is very simple, he refused to back down after a post that made you look completely town. Unlike everyone else on your wagon however he pushed the point that you were probably lying without any reasonable evidence. And then when called on this by multiple people he defended it by saying "your all just following az leave me alone"
@Manders, what if the mod his role only makes the mod lie to us? could THAT be a scum roll? I think this needs tested.
I have no idea, man. No clue.
Ok, analysis time:
Wrath of DoG: absolutely no read. Hopefully he'll get everything straightened out, or he'll be replaced because this is getting ridiculous.
dropkickdude: Really not much on him either. The whole "TFF is scum for saying he has a name" thing still bothers me because it was such a small thing to vote for, but meh. He's neutral to me.
RafaelK: Gut town read on him. This is really the first time I've played with him, so I don't know how to read him.
Talore: Seems to be sitting in the shadows posting here and there, but I don't know. My gut is telling me he's town because I believe I've heard he's terrible. (no offense meant)
AsianInvasion: IMO, he is an extremely zealous townie. I haven't seen anything too scummy from him so far.
Nom_Anor: Claimed cop, but I haven't discounted the possibility he's a scum cop. He hasn't done much of anything in this game.
BTW, for anyone who didn't see, there is now scum meta for NA. South Park Mafia.
And he didn't do much of anything there, either.
ced395: Since the misunderstanding at the beginning, I have gotten nothing but town reads from him. Strong town lead, imo.
DYH: Claimed Governor (I guess). Nothing about that role guarantees he's town. As scum, DYH has a tendency to jump on people for weak tells and dog them to claim range. The first instance of this was post #178 where he said TFF proposing a "name claim" was scummy because we don't have names. The second, with Az recently. I still greatly dislike his attempts at discrediting his wagon by calling us all sheep.
Nakamura: Needs to post more. I'm not impressed with what I've seen so far.
~Tilde~: Yeah, this is where my vote is going. He's provided nothing to the thread and has been spewing his toxic, nonsense theories since the beginning. PBPA on him in the next post.
Skander: Every post I read from him reminds me of Family Mafia. He reads 100% genuine townie to me. If he turns up scum, I quit mafia.
Ace: Nothing. Please post more.
Azrael: I really want to believe that Az is town, but I know he's good enough to fool everyone on his alignment, so I don't think I'll ever fully trust him.
~V~: After re-reading his posts, they seem to come from a town mentality. He seems to have trouble expressing what he's wanting to say. Since I have that same problem on a regular basis, I can understand that.
tordeckSyrenz: tordeck didn't provide much, but Syrenz seems town atm.Of course, the two scum games under his belt, Syrenz seemed town much of the games, too.
Some One: I disagree with everyone saying he seems scum. I actually have no read on him. Please post more.
indomitablebug: I believe he suffers from the same thing I posted about ~V~. The more he posts, the better I feel about him.
Emo_Pinata: Gut town read on him.
Zchinque: The only thing I had on him was the invisibility, but since I've decided to drop that argument, he seems town to me.
vezokpiraka: Ugh. Claimed traitor who has previously stated he will hurt the town if we don't lynch him. I would love to lynch him, but only because I can't stand his playstyle. That is not enough for a lynch, though.
TheFooFish: I get town vibes from him, but nothing extremely definite. Leaning town, but would like to see more out of him.
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Vote with no reason. I never like these.
Fluff
Modgaming
This is a weak attack on RafK, but no vote.
Calls Az out for seeming scummy, but nothing further than that. At the time he made this post, I thought he was making it seem like he was voting for Az and unvoted, but that wasn't the case.
His "in short" reasoning for voting Az makes no sense with the rest of the post, therefore this is another vote with no reason as I see it.
Answering a question. Null
His statements in regards to me make it seem like he's on the fence, then he votes me, stating that I would shout OMGUS. In fact, I never did see an answer to my question.
Why did you think I would shout OMGUS at this? I wasn't voting for you, and you provided reasons, whether I agree with them or not.
Fluff
See, he has provided nothing to the game except fluff and insane theories. I've seen no relevant scum hunting and am quite confident in this:
Vote: ~Tilde~
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Whoah. I didn't realize that either.
And, per the "scum hunter" comment, I always thought it was bad to be one. Guess not? Haha.
Ah, okay.
I'll make sure to be more detailed next time (and, hopefully, that "next time" will be later today).
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
It didn't read like DYH was trying to say he was town because of his ability, just that he was saying good luck lynching him. At least that's how I read it.
I'm still leaning town on DYH, probably because I can emphasize with breakdowns.
Wait what?
Really waiting on this because you have me severely confused right now.
That would make this post by Nom pretty disingenuous:
I think people are allowing this guy too much leeway. I'm not sure if the comparison to claiming SK as town is even valid. Claiming SK, while stupid, was some sort of plan that lined up. Over here, his mindset has not at all been consistent and the above post reads entirely falsely with the revelation that he was scum in the other game he was talking about.
You're right, Skander. When I read that post, I thought he jumped to that defense because it's no longer the case and he knows it while others do not. However, I already knew he was scum in SP (Ace told me) so I wasn't (and still am not) sure if it was this game or that he had in mind.
I'm giving the unCCd cop the benefit of the doubt for now.
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Talore
Fluff.
Fluff.
---Day 1 officially starts---
Fluff.
Fluff, and fencesits on the proposed softclaim.
I don't think there's anything particularly wrong about that.
I've got nothing on this one, as I pretty much agreed with his point on ~V~ vs. Az.
Not really game related.
An easy, if valid, quip at AI, but goes on to fencesit some more.
I like how he does't like the votes on Vez, more on that later.
I commented on this post that I found it amusing. Why? Because the post by SO that Talore was criticizing had about as much content as Talore himself had presented all game.
Just a follow up to his last post with a vote. No reasons given (and no, I don't consider what he came up with in his last post as reasons for a vote).
Not scummy per se, but it made me feel uneasy.
I'll just group these three together.
What's in these posts doesn't really bother me. I tend to agree with Talore over Manders on the question at hand.
What bothers me is what isn't here. By this point a wagon was forming on iBug, and a couple of peeps were still attacking Az. So far he has not said anything about either, except for the comment about ~V~'s vote on Az, way back when. Apparently it's more important to have an argument with Manders about the use of invisibility mode, which originaly didn't concern him, than comment on any of the other topics.
Sniping from the sidelines, eh?
Apart from the argument with Manders, you haven't really had much input either.
Lumping these together as well, as they came in a short space of time and I don't have much to say about them.
Why only seven players on your list? Only one town read? What do you mean by your neutral category, seeing as you have left out most of the players in the game?
Yesyes, Vez' posts are awful, we know that. But where is the deflection you mention? And why is this, in your opinion, now suddenly scummyVez, while you earlier didn't like votes on Vez for posts that, to me, look pretty damn similar?
Aren't the two pretty much one and the same? Anyway, this post is null.
The "I'm not cut out for analysis posts" sounds like a huge copout when you've already promised it several times.
Null.
You want to "test his unlynchability"? Even though he has said there are negative side effects to it? Why?
Why do you feel that attacking barn votes is scummy?
Why do you feel better about Az?
Err... what wagons did Az not have anything to with?
So, scum will attack barn votes on them, and thus it is scummy to attack barn votes?
I've not read Clan Mafia, so I can't comment any on that point.
-----------------------------------------------------
Going over it like this, it's not quite as bad as I had imagined.
Talore is still high on my scumlist, but I'm not sure I want to move my vote over there just now. I need to read and mull some more.
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
@Ced : Answer me : Do you get pushed in the wrong direction?
Also ~tilde~ is also a traitor because he speculated all of us are traitors. Or he is mafia even better.
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But he clearly mentions this game and the other game he's in. He's referring to both. Which as I've said, is a pretty false expression from him.
I'll probably PBPA him soon since he has only 10 or so posts and he's really bugging me.
The problem is that he's claimed some sort of harmful side-effect if we attempt to lynch him. And from where I'm sitting, it's extremely unlikely to claim to be able to stop himself from being lynched after just a couple of votes and not actually have that ability - he would know that people would be tempted to test it. So he is pretty much guaranteed to be unlynchable regardless of alignment.
So we're going to try to prove something that doesn't need to be proven and if he's town we're going to trigger some harmful side-effect. Not my idea of fun.
And once we start worrying about the bastard mod lying, it could be that the bastard mod also lied to DYH about the ability and really it doesn't prevent a lynch. So we could be lynching a townie that thinks he's unlynchable now because the bastard mod lied to him.
That must make me a jester since I speculated we're all jesters.