I agree, he's definitely lying. Most of his explanations are transparently someone trying to explain his behavior after the fact, rather than recollecting any true reason. He's repeatedly tailoring his defenses to meet and apologize for the accusations.
But, why would a townie lie about something like that Az?
You're confusing me.
Insecure townies will sometimes go along with [whatever], just to go along with something. When questioned on it, they will often, in my experience, make up a reason for their action, rather than admitting that they have no clue, and went along juss 'cuz.
I did that.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Picross 3D
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
But, why would a townie lie about something like that Az?
You're confusing me.
Sometimes, townies grope for the best-sounding explanation to excuse their behavior, just as the scum would. Usually because their true reasoning was very superficial to begin with, and they didn't spend a lot of time thinking about it.
This guy's enough of a conundrum that I'm tempted to try pitting my mod-gaming skills against DC and extract a claim from him.
Insecure townies will sometimes go along with [whatever], just to go along with something. When questioned on it, they will often, in my experience, make up a reason for their action, rather than admitting that they have no clue, and went along juss 'cuz.
Sometimes, townies grope for the best-sounding explanation to excuse their behavior, just as the scum would. Usually because their true reasoning was very superficial to begin with, and they didn't spend a lot of time thinking about it.
Ok, I think I understand now, and this definitely sounds like something Vez would do.
Oh, fyi, after a loooong discussion in Family clan, I've decided to remove him from ignore, as I don't want to be known as Godzilhex.
I'm a little disturbed that DYH didn't take that into account, or spend any other amount of time thinking it through before his revote on Ibug. Its very casual - and his exits and entries from the wagon seem opportunistically timed, and lean heavily on others' reasoning.
DYH's tone has always thrown me off on him, but these actions might be more in line with his scum persona.
DYH - Participation and piggyback tells. indomitablebug - lying mcliarface, hyper-aggression, and unnatural thought process. Wrath_of_DoG - crappy vote rationale
Uncertain
~Tilde~ - is insane dropkickdude - had that one bad vote earlier Some One - lean very slightly town. Nom_Anor - usually early claimers are town. vezokpiraka - acting self-interested, more than scummy. Again, early claimers are usually non-mafia.
Townish
AsianInvasion - acting like zealous town MandersHex - acting like zealous town Azrael -obv ced395 - unpressured traitor claim reads nice and genuine ~V~ - natural, frustration tells
No Read
Most of his explanations are transparently someone trying to explain his behavior after the fact, rather than recollecting any true reason.
This is basically what's going on. I've been trying to recall my reasoning for any given actions.
I don't know who to lynch at the moment. That's why I'm not voting anyone currently. Nom_anor and Someone both look scummy to me, but I haven't seen enough to vote for either of them. Nakamura doesn't look good either, but with so few posts it's hard to tell. It would also help to know how experienced Nakamura is, some of what they're saying looks like newb moves as opposed to simply scum moves.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
-We'd be able to tell if we have more than one Traitor.
-We'd be able to pump information from any Scum for them to be forced to use later on.
-We may find out if we have a Jester or not.
-More information. I like it.
-And, remember, we're "all equally bastardized". Find the truth behind that.
Insecure townies will sometimes go along with [whatever], just to go along with something. When questioned on it, they will often, in my experience, make up a reason for their action, rather than admitting that they have no clue, and went along juss 'cuz.
Sometimes, townies grope for the best-sounding explanation to excuse their behavior, just as the scum would. Usually because their true reasoning was very superficial to begin with, and they didn't spend a lot of time thinking about it.
This guy's enough of a conundrum that I'm tempted to try pitting my mod-gaming skills against DC and extract a claim from him.
I'm a little disturbed that DYH didn't take that into account, or spend any other amount of time thinking it through before his revote on Ibug. Its very casual - and his exits and entries from the wagon seem opportunistically timed, and lean heavily on others' reasoning.
DYH's tone has always thrown me off on him, but these actions might be more in line with his scum persona.
I didn't think about it because that's the stupidest reasoning I've ever heard. Seriously, townies make up crap to defend against why they did things? No, no they don't. And if they do, that's just dumb.
Making up excuses for why you did something is a flat-out lie, and reeks of, well, making up a defense. It's what scum do. It's what I nailed iLord for in SoIF mafia right out of the gate.
-And, remember, we're "all equally bastardized". Find the truth behind that.
"Equal bastardy for everyone" does not mean we're all equally bastardized. There are differences. I wouldn't be surprised if there were no vanillas but that doesn't mean we all have convoluted bastard roles.
The only thing I'm worried about by lynching him is...what if the whole "This game is a bastard mod game" bit was said because he is a Jester and it will end the game if we lynch him. Thoughts on how possible this is please? I need help.
I've seen people worry about that in about half a dozen games. My response is always that any game so stupid that it can end by a jester getting themselves lynched is better off ending For the record, I've never seen any game actually ever end that way.
Raf, you're wanting to lynch Vez for being an alignment switcher? *frowns*
That seems...unnecessary at this juncture. And risky.
Superceded by events, obviously. Pre-ced, I would have said that the reason to kill off vez was that he'd publically committed not only to being a traitor but also to refusing to help the town and actively using his ability against the town if he wasnt lynched. There was a very strong argument for calling his bluff and lynching him.
I don't anticipate DC throwing jesters in here (too played out, stupid, and unoriginal), but who knows what kind of evil is actually going on. And if vez truly is an alignment shifter, the time's not right to deal with him. Mafia are priority #1.
The point is that vez could have (still could, apparently) be a mafia recruit. And thus part of that priority #1
Assuming vez is town, no scum in their right mind will kill him, so leaving him around is running the odds that he won't get recruited/turned the entire game.
"Equal bastardy for everyone" does not mean we're all equally bastardized. There are differences. I wouldn't be surprised if there were no vanillas but that doesn't mean we all have convoluted bastard roles.
<Ridiculous theory alert!>
All players are traitors, there is no mafia at the start of the game and the only way for the town to win is to vote for a no lynch day 1 because whenever a player dies, it triggers the traitor switch on another player.
<end totally unbelieveable theory. We now return to your game, already in progress>
Applying a blanket statement to everything I said is a little excessive. Saying I that everything I say is a lie is untrue and you know it. Yeah, we get it. You think I'm scum. But you've been pushing me so hard for answers and explanations of all of these posts knowing full well that I can't satisfactorily answer everything. What exactly do you want me to do when I don't remember the exact thought process I went through for a given process? Say "Gee, Az, I don't know?" That's ridiculous and you know it.
I don't keep notes on the game. I have general ideas that I keep in my head, but I don't feel like writing everything down and going over it again and again to try to find some minute mistake. You keep pushing for this lynch, and I honestly don't believe there is ANYTHING I could say to actually defend myself. Not simply because I tried to recall my reasoning for my previous posts and wasn't great at it, but because you will twist anything I say to make me look scummy.
I have tried to be reasonable with you. But at this point I'm tired of you.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
indomitablebug (7) - Azrael, Zchinque, Some One. dropkickdude, ced395, Syrenz, DYH Some One (2) - Talore, AsianInvasion Nom Anor (2) - Skander, MandersHex Azrael (1) - Wrath_of_DoG DYH (1) - Emo_Pinata AsianInvasion (1) - RafaelK vezokpiraka (1) - Nom Anor MandersHex (1) - ~Tilde~ Nakamura (1) - vezokpiraka
Sympathies, Wrath_of_DoG. But if you're still blocked by next week, your bastard mod may have to seek a replacement.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
@ced : Can you tell me something ced: Do you get pushed in the wrong direction?
Seeing as how ced claimed I thought at first that being the german and after reading my flavor I thought I will switch mafia but now after i think about it I may flip SK. Although that is improbable based on my other abilities. If I flip SK I will let the town direct for as along as they like.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
What exactly do you want me to do when I don't remember the exact thought process I went through for a given process? Say "Gee, Az, I don't know?" That's ridiculous and you know it.
Yes, that is exactly what a townie should have done. Because we're looking for the truth. And when you say things that are not the truth, we can realize that, and we might just kill you.
Quote from IBug »
I don't keep notes on the game. I have general ideas that I keep in my head, but I don't feel like writing everything down and going over it again and again to try to find some minute mistake. You keep pushing for this lynch, and I honestly don't believe there is ANYTHING I could say to actually defend myself. Not simply because I tried to recall my reasoning for my previous posts and wasn't great at it, but because you will twist anything I say to make me look scummy.
I have tried to be reasonable with you. But at this point I'm tired of you.
Yes, that is exactly what a townie should have done. Because we're looking for the truth. And when you say things that are not the truth, we can realize that, and we might just kill you.
That took much longer than I expected.
Unvote, vote DYH.
You didn't answer my FoS question.
Should I be concerned that you're jumping all over the place?
Should I be concerned that you're jumping all over the place?
I don't like it when people suggest going after people who aren't explicitly mafia. It's a great way to feed the town justifiable mislynches. I'm backing off because Rafk has a history of pursuing neutrals/suspecting outsiders. It's in his blood.
Or maybe what I said: I had reasons at the time, I don't recall my exact logic. Sorry that I don't take extensive notes on absolutely everything I do.
I don't think anyone takes extensive notes on their own play, but they should certainly know what the reasoning was behind why they did something - not make it up later. Hell, a re-read of the thread up to where you made the post should give you some clue what was going through your mind.
No, that is not the part in question at all. Read 387 - 393. He takes a cheap shot at Az saying he thinks it's something he does to "confuse people", and six posts later says he's leaning town on him. There is no way he meant #387 in a positive light.
Applying a blanket statement to everything I said is a little excessive. Saying I that everything I say is a lie is untrue and you know it. Yeah, we get it. You think I'm scum. But you've been pushing me so hard for answers and explanations of all of these posts knowing full well that I can't satisfactorily answer everything. What exactly do you want me to do when I don't remember the exact thought process I went through for a given process? Say "Gee, Az, I don't know?" That's ridiculous and you know it.
I don't keep notes on the game. I have general ideas that I keep in my head, but I don't feel like writing everything down and going over it again and again to try to find some minute mistake. You keep pushing for this lynch, and I honestly don't believe there is ANYTHING I could say to actually defend myself. Not simply because I tried to recall my reasoning for my previous posts and wasn't great at it, but because you will twist anything I say to make me look scummy.
I have tried to be reasonable with you. But at this point I'm tired of you.
And your reaction to this is to unvote him, Az? My mind is officially blown.
Yes, that is exactly what a townie should have done. Because we're looking for the truth. And when you say things that are not the truth, we can realize that, and we might just kill you.
I don't keep notes on the game. I have general ideas that I keep in my head, but I don't feel like writing everything down and going over it again and again to try to find some minute mistake. You keep pushing for this lynch, and I honestly don't believe there is ANYTHING I could say to actually defend myself. Not simply because I tried to recall my reasoning for my previous posts and wasn't great at it, but because you will twist anything I say to make me look scummy.
I have tried to be reasonable with you. But at this point I'm tired of you.
What about this made you change your mind Az? You were so certain of ibug's guilt before.
I've been trying to break him down and get a genuinely emotional post out of him, instead of all these carefully composed apologies. Once I got it, it was clean.
Applying a blanket statement to everything I said is a little excessive. Saying I that everything I say is a lie is untrue and you know it. Yeah, we get it. You think I'm scum. But you've been pushing me so hard for answers and explanations of all of these posts knowing full well that I can't satisfactorily answer everything. What exactly do you want me to do when I don't remember the exact thought process I went through for a given process? Say "Gee, Az, I don't know?" That's ridiculous and you know it.
I don't keep notes on the game. I have general ideas that I keep in my head, but I don't feel like writing everything down and going over it again and again to try to find some minute mistake. You keep pushing for this lynch, and I honestly don't believe there is ANYTHING I could say to actually defend myself. Not simply because I tried to recall my reasoning for my previous posts and wasn't great at it, but because you will twist anything I say to make me look scummy.
I have tried to be reasonable with you. But at this point I'm tired of you.
Let me elaborate on my disbelief of Azrael unvoting from this post a little more. Read this post and tell me it doesn't smack of "what I think you're doing to me is what a scum would do". He accuses Azrael of 'pushing him so hard for answers he knows he can't properly give' and 'twisting his meanings intentionally' - again, he's insinuating that Azrael is not exhibiting town behavior. Yet, iBug is not voting Az; he's trying to get him off his back. Plain and simple. In fact, he just recently unvoted him.
This after iBug was "leaning town on him (Az)" after saying he does things to "confuse people on purpose". He only came out with the part about meta for Azrael after it was discussed by others - iBug saying that initially was an accusation, not a compliment or even just a general statement. And now he's doing it again.
Maybe I'm wrong; so, I thought "could he be a townie afraid of Az?". I guess; except that he continues to fire right back. That doesn't make any sense. If he was just meekly succumbing to the pressure, that'd be one thing, but this guy's fiery. He's not afraid of Azrael - he's afraid of being caught.
His mindset and his posts do not sync; this guy shouldn't be playing the "I don't take notes" and "I wasn't great at it [explaining my reasoning]" cards. Those are almost 'newbie excuses', and clearly this guy fancies himself a better player than that. This is why I'm especially confused that Az has moved off this wagon given his mafia theory background.
iBug has twisted himself up in so many knots, he can't lie his way out of it, so now he's relying on self-pity and feigned anger in a last-ditch attempt. Or are you seriously buying this townie righteous indignation act, Az?
I've been trying to break him down and get a genuinely emotional post out of him, instead of all these carefully composed apologies. Once I got it, it was clean.
As you'll see in my most recent post, I think you're horribly wrong. I need a better explanation than this.
Quote from Azrael »
Empty rhetoric, and you know it. Vote stands.
No it's not, you haven't provided any reasoning other than to just get away from the iBug vote. It's a terrible vote.
Let me elaborate on my disbelief of Azrael unvoting from this post a little more.
Unvote, Vote: DYH
Now let me explain why you deserve this vote
Read this post and tell me it doesn't smack of "what I think you're doing to me is what a scum would do". He accuses Azrael of 'pushing him so hard for answers he knows he can't properly give' and 'twisting his meanings intentionally' - again, he's insinuating that Azrael is not exhibiting town behavior. Yet, iBug is not voting Az; he's trying to get him off his back. Plain and simple. In fact, he just recently unvoted him.
See, I see it as him accusing Azrael of tunnelvision. This, of course, isn't the case and Az was just pushing for a reaction, which I already thought before Az just posted that. Pushing for a genuine reaction is not scummy.
This after iBug was "leaning town on him (Az)" after saying he does things to "confuse people on purpose". He only came out with the part about meta for Azrael after it was discussed by others - iBug saying that initially was an accusation, not a compliment or even just a general statement. And now he's doing it again.
When else did you expect him to bring up anything about Az's meta? He's never played with Azrael before, so he, like I, have to rely on what you guys tell us unless we want to go read a game he was in...which I don't have time nor desire to do.
Maybe I'm wrong; so, I thought "could he be a townie afraid of Az?". I guess; except that he continues to fire right back. That doesn't make any sense. If he was just meekly succumbing to the pressure, that'd be one thing, but this guy's fiery. He's not afraid of Azrael - he's afraid of being caught.
You're reaching here, buddy. You really think the fact that he's still arguing with Az is evident that he's worried about being caught? The more I read from him (iBug) the more I see that he truly is just confused. Can't fault a guy for that.
His mindset and his posts do not sync; this guy shouldn't be playing the "I don't take notes" and "I wasn't great at it [explaining my reasoning]" cards. Those are almost 'newbie excuses', and clearly this guy fancies himself a better player than that. This is why I'm especially confused that Az has moved off this wagon given his mafia theory background.
There's a perfectly logical explanation for this, DYH, and you know it. I don't want to give him an out and I would like to see him explain why he can't remember what he was thinking, but there is.
iBug has twisted himself up in so many knots, he can't lie his way out of it, so now he's relying on self-pity and feigned anger in a last-ditch attempt. Or are you seriously buying this townie righteous indignation act, Az?
The fact that you're jumping on him for something that is really just a human mistake does it for me, man. You are reminding me of Highlander 100%. You won't be satisfied until he's claimed cop or vig, will you?
Let me elaborate on my disbelief of Azrael unvoting from this post a little more. Read this post and tell me it doesn't smack of "what I think you're doing to me is what a scum would do". He accuses Azrael of 'pushing him so hard for answers he knows he can't properly give' and 'twisting his meanings intentionally' - again, he's insinuating that Azrael is not exhibiting town behavior. Yet, iBug is not voting Az; he's trying to get him off his back. Plain and simple. In fact, he just recently unvoted him.
He's not accusing me of being scum. He's accusing me of being Cyan.
Quote from DYH »
This after iBug was "leaning town on him (Az)" after saying he does things to "confuse people on purpose". He only came out with the part about meta for Azrael after it was discussed by others - iBug saying that initially was an accusation, not a compliment or even just a general statement. And now he's doing it again.
The guy is too slippery and image-conscious for his own good. And no one's going to be forgetting about his wealth of tells anytime soon. He keeps his guard up and he plays a very cool customer. But we've had exactly one post in the thread so far where he drops his guard, and when he did, I could more easily connect it to a thought process that looks like a townie who was biting his tongue while being harassed, than a scum under siege.
Quote from DYH »
Maybe I'm wrong; so, I thought "could he be a townie afraid of Az?". I guess; except that he continues to fire right back. That doesn't make any sense. If he was just meekly succumbing to the pressure, that'd be one thing, but this guy's fiery. He's not afraid of Azrael - he's afraid of being caught.
He's afraid of failure.
Quote from DYH »
His mindset and his posts do not sync; this guy shouldn't be playing the "I don't take notes" and "I wasn't great at it [explaining my reasoning]" cards. Those are almost 'newbie excuses', and clearly this guy fancies himself a better player than that. This is why I'm especially confused that Az has moved off this wagon given his mafia theory background.
Alright, let's take a walk through of his wording in my next post.
Quote from DYH »
iBug has twisted himself up in so many knots, he can't lie his way out of it, so now he's relying on self-pity and feigned anger in a last-ditch attempt.
Quote from DYH »
This is why I'm especially confused that Az has moved off this wagon given his mafia theory background.
Quote from DYH »
Or are you seriously buying this townie righteous indignation act, Az?
Manders, you really need to get over Highlander. And your last comment is ridiculous.
I am completely over Highlander. I could care less that we lost. But that is the only meta I have on you, DYH, and you were scum, and you're doing similar things here.
Also, nice attempt to discredit my argument. Vote confirmed indeed.
Unvote, Vote: DYH
Now let me explain why you deserve this vote
See, I see it as him accusing Azrael of tunnelvision. This, of course, isn't the case and Az was just pushing for a reaction, which I already thought before Az just posted that. Pushing for a genuine reaction is not scummy.
I can buy that he's accusing Azrael of tunnel-vision, although I prefer Az's quip, that was much funnier.
Quote from MH »
When else did you expect him to bring up anything about Az's meta? He's never played with Azrael before, so he, like I, have to rely on what you guys tell us unless we want to go read a game he was in...which I don't have time nor desire to do.
Of course he didn't say anything about Az's meta initially; that's not the point - he was insinuating that what Az was doing (confusing people) was scummy. It was after the other people chimed in that suddenly he felt that way about it, too.
Quote from MH »
You're reaching here, buddy. You really think the fact that he's still arguing with Az is evident that he's worried about being caught? The more I read from him (iBug) the more I see that he truly is just confused. Can't fault a guy for that.
I think the fact he's still arguing with Azrael means he has something to hide, yes. If he was the meek little townie he was playing to be, he wouldn't be taking shots back at him.
Quote from MH »
There's a perfectly logical explanation for this, DYH, and you know it. I don't want to give him an out and I would like to see him explain why he can't remember what he was thinking, but there is.
There sure is - it's called he's making stuff up, and he's already admitted to it. Townies do not make up defenses for why they did something - they tell the truth.
Quote from MH »
The fact that you're jumping on him for something that is really just a human mistake does it for me, man. You are reminding me of Highlander 100%. You won't be satisfied until he's claimed cop or vig, will you?
I've already addressed this non-sequitur at the end, but "a human mistake"? Really? Give me a break.
I am completely over Highlander. I could care less that we lost. But that is the only meta I have on you, DYH, and you were scum, and you're doing similar things here.
Also, nice attempt to discredit my argument. Vote confirmed indeed.
Maybe if you'd waited five minutes, you wouldn't look so ridiculous for this post.
Too late.
Way to ignore the part where I said I wasn't getting lynched today.
Applying a blanket statement to everything I said is a little excessive.
He starts off with a mild reproof, very much like what's come before it. Still biting his tongue.
Quote from Ibug »
Saying I that everything I say is a lie is untrue and you know it.
Now here we go! Some gen-u-ine conviction popping out, right here.
Quote from Ibug »
Yeah, we get it. You think I'm scum.
Great frustration wording. He sees a horse being flogged to death - unjustifiably.
Quote from Ibug »
But you've been pushing me so hard for answers and explanations of all of these posts knowing full well that I can't satisfactorily answer everything. What exactly do you want me to do when I don't remember the exact thought process I went through for a given process? Say "Gee, Az, I don't know?" That's ridiculous and you know it.
He feels he's been set an impossible task. When scum get persecuted like this, they like to paint their attackers as deficient. They don't tend to characterize the attack on them as demanding the impossible. That's much more like the reaction of a townie who has been desperately struggling to play ball, and getting nowhere.
That syncs very nicely with his prior history of trying to admit fault.
Quote from IBug »
I don't keep notes on the game. I have general ideas that I keep in my head, but I don't feel like writing everything down and going over it again and again to try to find some minute mistake.
*nods* I love that he uses the phrase "minute mistake": he feels he's being nitpicked to death here. Again, that gels very nicely with the "I'm under attack by Cyan" theme.
Quote from Ibug »
You keep pushing for this lynch, and I honestly don't believe there is ANYTHING I could say to actually defend myself. Not simply because I tried to recall my reasoning for my previous posts and wasn't great at it, but because you will twist anything I say to make me look scummy.
Anything in caps. He's tried everything he can think of to cooperate with the town, and nothing's working. It's not adversarial for him: it's finding a solution to the problem of this annoying guy who mistakenly keeps attacking him again and again.
Quote from IBug »
I have tried to be reasonable with you. But at this point I'm tired of you.
And this is the kicker. It links all the forbearance and self-control we've seen up until now together with his current post: where he finally breaks cover and shows us some genuine, unfiltered thoughts.
This is turning into one of those annoying day one squabbles that we like to have over how we each play the game of mafia (Cubus' Salvation mafia flashbacks), and it's annoying.
He feels he's been set an impossible task. When scum get persecuted like this, they like to paint their attackers as deficient. They don't tend to characterize the attack on them as demanding the impossible. That's much more like the reaction of a townie who has been desperately struggling to play ball, and getting nowhere.
Uh, Az? It's kinda hard to say your attacker is deficient when everyone in it has made it quite clear your attacker is not (deficient). You don't call Albert Pujols a bad baseball player to his face.
Hydra-vote; Talore. You're my new Ibug.
What I'm afraid of is that he's a lying townie.
You're confusing me.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
Insecure townies will sometimes go along with [whatever], just to go along with something. When questioned on it, they will often, in my experience, make up a reason for their action, rather than admitting that they have no clue, and went along juss 'cuz.
I did that.
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
Sometimes, townies grope for the best-sounding explanation to excuse their behavior, just as the scum would. Usually because their true reasoning was very superficial to begin with, and they didn't spend a lot of time thinking about it.
This guy's enough of a conundrum that I'm tempted to try pitting my mod-gaming skills against DC and extract a claim from him.
Thanks, Az. My, how your avvy has changed!
Ok, I think I understand now, and this definitely sounds like something Vez would do.
Oh, fyi, after a loooong discussion in Family clan, I've decided to remove him from ignore, as I don't want to be known as Godzilhex.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
I'm a little disturbed that DYH didn't take that into account, or spend any other amount of time thinking it through before his revote on Ibug. Its very casual - and his exits and entries from the wagon seem opportunistically timed, and lean heavily on others' reasoning.
DYH's tone has always thrown me off on him, but these actions might be more in line with his scum persona.
Scummy
DYH - Participation and piggyback tells.
indomitablebug - lying mcliarface, hyper-aggression, and unnatural thought process.
Wrath_of_DoG - crappy vote rationale
Uncertain
~Tilde~ - is insane
dropkickdude - had that one bad vote earlier
Some One - lean very slightly town.
Nom_Anor - usually early claimers are town.
vezokpiraka - acting self-interested, more than scummy. Again, early claimers are usually non-mafia.
Townish
AsianInvasion - acting like zealous town
MandersHex - acting like zealous town
Azrael -obv
ced395 - unpressured traitor claim reads nice and genuine
~V~ - natural, frustration tells
No Read
Re: Nom. I do recall seeing that SK thing, so I'm less convinced he's scum although I would still love to hear his explanations.
This game has me severely confused. I anticipate abuse of the ria smiley.
This is basically what's going on. I've been trying to recall my reasoning for any given actions.
I don't know who to lynch at the moment. That's why I'm not voting anyone currently. Nom_anor and Someone both look scummy to me, but I haven't seen enough to vote for either of them. Nakamura doesn't look good either, but with so few posts it's hard to tell. It would also help to know how experienced Nakamura is, some of what they're saying looks like newb moves as opposed to simply scum moves.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
No.
After you go insane it's a different story though.
I've never a completed a Mafia before (albeit I am currently in Day One of another Mafia).
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I agree. Never mind on that idea.
Unfortunately, I really don't think it's the only one.
-We'd be able to tell if we have more than one Traitor.
-We'd be able to pump information from any Scum for them to be forced to use later on.
-We may find out if we have a Jester or not.
-More information. I like it.
-And, remember, we're "all equally bastardized". Find the truth behind that.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I didn't think about it because that's the stupidest reasoning I've ever heard. Seriously, townies make up crap to defend against why they did things? No, no they don't. And if they do, that's just dumb.
Making up excuses for why you did something is a flat-out lie, and reeks of, well, making up a defense. It's what scum do. It's what I nailed iLord for in SoIF mafia right out of the gate.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
:argh::argh::argh:
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
It's all very confusing thus far. A traitor? Tilde is mad?
Oh dear.
Two traitors...
...
...and I need my crack.
"Equal bastardy for everyone" does not mean we're all equally bastardized. There are differences. I wouldn't be surprised if there were no vanillas but that doesn't mean we all have convoluted bastard roles.
Or maybe what I said: I had reasons at the time, I don't recall my exact logic. Sorry that I don't take extensive notes on absolutely everything I do.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Superceded by events, obviously. Pre-ced, I would have said that the reason to kill off vez was that he'd publically committed not only to being a traitor but also to refusing to help the town and actively using his ability against the town if he wasnt lynched. There was a very strong argument for calling his bluff and lynching him.
The point is that vez could have (still could, apparently) be a mafia recruit. And thus part of that priority #1
Assuming vez is town, no scum in their right mind will kill him, so leaving him around is running the odds that he won't get recruited/turned the entire game.
Had the same reaction. A very odd way for Nakamura to enter the thread. Some definite opinions without apparently having read the thread.
vez is, if nothing else, hard to predict.
Could someone awfully kindly multiquote the alleged lie and whatever thing it is that proves it a lie?
<Ridiculous theory alert!>
All players are traitors, there is no mafia at the start of the game and the only way for the town to win is to vote for a no lynch day 1 because whenever a player dies, it triggers the traitor switch on another player.
<end totally unbelieveable theory. We now return to your game, already in progress>
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Here in 444 is where he BSes a response.
647 is where he admits to BSing his response.
654 is where I shake my fist in rage.
Applying a blanket statement to everything I said is a little excessive. Saying I that everything I say is a lie is untrue and you know it. Yeah, we get it. You think I'm scum. But you've been pushing me so hard for answers and explanations of all of these posts knowing full well that I can't satisfactorily answer everything. What exactly do you want me to do when I don't remember the exact thought process I went through for a given process? Say "Gee, Az, I don't know?" That's ridiculous and you know it.
I don't keep notes on the game. I have general ideas that I keep in my head, but I don't feel like writing everything down and going over it again and again to try to find some minute mistake. You keep pushing for this lynch, and I honestly don't believe there is ANYTHING I could say to actually defend myself. Not simply because I tried to recall my reasoning for my previous posts and wasn't great at it, but because you will twist anything I say to make me look scummy.
I have tried to be reasonable with you. But at this point I'm tired of you.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
indomitablebug (7) - Azrael, Zchinque, Some One. dropkickdude, ced395, Syrenz, DYH
Some One (2) - Talore, AsianInvasion
Nom Anor (2) - Skander, MandersHex
Azrael (1) - Wrath_of_DoG
DYH (1) - Emo_Pinata
AsianInvasion (1) - RafaelK
vezokpiraka (1) - Nom Anor
MandersHex (1) - ~Tilde~
Nakamura (1) - vezokpiraka
Sympathies, Wrath_of_DoG. But if you're still blocked by next week, your bastard mod may have to seek a replacement.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
I really hope that DYH can do a better job of demonstrating a lying scum than that.
Seeing as how ced claimed I thought at first that being the german and after reading my flavor I thought I will switch mafia but now after i think about it I may flip SK. Although that is improbable based on my other abilities. If I flip SK I will let the town direct for as along as they like.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Yes, that is exactly what a townie should have done. Because we're looking for the truth. And when you say things that are not the truth, we can realize that, and we might just kill you.
That took much longer than I expected.
Unvote, vote DYH.
You didn't answer my FoS question.
Should I be concerned that you're jumping all over the place?
I don't like it when people suggest going after people who aren't explicitly mafia. It's a great way to feed the town justifiable mislynches. I'm backing off because Rafk has a history of pursuing neutrals/suspecting outsiders. It's in his blood.
I dunno. Should you be?
I don't think anyone takes extensive notes on their own play, but they should certainly know what the reasoning was behind why they did something - not make it up later. Hell, a re-read of the thread up to where you made the post should give you some clue what was going through your mind.
No, that is not the part in question at all. Read 387 - 393. He takes a cheap shot at Az saying he thinks it's something he does to "confuse people", and six posts later says he's leaning town on him. There is no way he meant #387 in a positive light.
And your reaction to this is to unvote him, Az? My mind is officially blown.
See above.
Terrible vote and you know it.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
What about this made you change your mind Az? You were so certain of ibug's guilt before.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
I've been trying to break him down and get a genuinely emotional post out of him, instead of all these carefully composed apologies. Once I got it, it was clean.
Empty rhetoric, and you know it. Vote stands.
Let me elaborate on my disbelief of Azrael unvoting from this post a little more. Read this post and tell me it doesn't smack of "what I think you're doing to me is what a scum would do". He accuses Azrael of 'pushing him so hard for answers he knows he can't properly give' and 'twisting his meanings intentionally' - again, he's insinuating that Azrael is not exhibiting town behavior. Yet, iBug is not voting Az; he's trying to get him off his back. Plain and simple. In fact, he just recently unvoted him.
This after iBug was "leaning town on him (Az)" after saying he does things to "confuse people on purpose". He only came out with the part about meta for Azrael after it was discussed by others - iBug saying that initially was an accusation, not a compliment or even just a general statement. And now he's doing it again.
Maybe I'm wrong; so, I thought "could he be a townie afraid of Az?". I guess; except that he continues to fire right back. That doesn't make any sense. If he was just meekly succumbing to the pressure, that'd be one thing, but this guy's fiery. He's not afraid of Azrael - he's afraid of being caught.
His mindset and his posts do not sync; this guy shouldn't be playing the "I don't take notes" and "I wasn't great at it [explaining my reasoning]" cards. Those are almost 'newbie excuses', and clearly this guy fancies himself a better player than that. This is why I'm especially confused that Az has moved off this wagon given his mafia theory background.
iBug has twisted himself up in so many knots, he can't lie his way out of it, so now he's relying on self-pity and feigned anger in a last-ditch attempt. Or are you seriously buying this townie righteous indignation act, Az?
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
As you'll see in my most recent post, I think you're horribly wrong. I need a better explanation than this.
No it's not, you haven't provided any reasoning other than to just get away from the iBug vote. It's a terrible vote.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Unvote, Vote: DYH
Now let me explain why you deserve this vote
See, I see it as him accusing Azrael of tunnelvision. This, of course, isn't the case and Az was just pushing for a reaction, which I already thought before Az just posted that. Pushing for a genuine reaction is not scummy.
When else did you expect him to bring up anything about Az's meta? He's never played with Azrael before, so he, like I, have to rely on what you guys tell us unless we want to go read a game he was in...which I don't have time nor desire to do.
You're reaching here, buddy. You really think the fact that he's still arguing with Az is evident that he's worried about being caught? The more I read from him (iBug) the more I see that he truly is just confused. Can't fault a guy for that.
There's a perfectly logical explanation for this, DYH, and you know it. I don't want to give him an out and I would like to see him explain why he can't remember what he was thinking, but there is.
The fact that you're jumping on him for something that is really just a human mistake does it for me, man. You are reminding me of Highlander 100%. You won't be satisfied until he's claimed cop or vig, will you?
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
He's not accusing me of being scum. He's accusing me of being Cyan.
The guy is too slippery and image-conscious for his own good. And no one's going to be forgetting about his wealth of tells anytime soon. He keeps his guard up and he plays a very cool customer. But we've had exactly one post in the thread so far where he drops his guard, and when he did, I could more easily connect it to a thought process that looks like a townie who was biting his tongue while being harassed, than a scum under siege.
He's afraid of failure.
Alright, let's take a walk through of his wording in my next post.
Yes. And I think you're trying to manipulate me.
@Az: You think I'm trying to manipulate you? That'd be a new one.
Let me save you some time; I won't be getting lynched today.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I am completely over Highlander. I could care less that we lost. But that is the only meta I have on you, DYH, and you were scum, and you're doing similar things here.
Also, nice attempt to discredit my argument. Vote confirmed indeed.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
Unvote, Vote: DYH
Now let me explain why you deserve this vote
See, I see it as him accusing Azrael of tunnelvision. This, of course, isn't the case and Az was just pushing for a reaction, which I already thought before Az just posted that. Pushing for a genuine reaction is not scummy.
I can buy that he's accusing Azrael of tunnel-vision, although I prefer Az's quip, that was much funnier.
Of course he didn't say anything about Az's meta initially; that's not the point - he was insinuating that what Az was doing (confusing people) was scummy. It was after the other people chimed in that suddenly he felt that way about it, too.
I think the fact he's still arguing with Azrael means he has something to hide, yes. If he was the meek little townie he was playing to be, he wouldn't be taking shots back at him.
There sure is - it's called he's making stuff up, and he's already admitted to it. Townies do not make up defenses for why they did something - they tell the truth.
I've already addressed this non-sequitur at the end, but "a human mistake"? Really? Give me a break.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Maybe if you'd waited five minutes, you wouldn't look so ridiculous for this post.
Too late.
Way to ignore the part where I said I wasn't getting lynched today.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
He starts off with a mild reproof, very much like what's come before it. Still biting his tongue.
Now here we go! Some gen-u-ine conviction popping out, right here.
Great frustration wording. He sees a horse being flogged to death - unjustifiably.
He feels he's been set an impossible task. When scum get persecuted like this, they like to paint their attackers as deficient. They don't tend to characterize the attack on them as demanding the impossible. That's much more like the reaction of a townie who has been desperately struggling to play ball, and getting nowhere.
That syncs very nicely with his prior history of trying to admit fault.
*nods* I love that he uses the phrase "minute mistake": he feels he's being nitpicked to death here. Again, that gels very nicely with the "I'm under attack by Cyan" theme.
Anything in caps. He's tried everything he can think of to cooperate with the town, and nothing's working. It's not adversarial for him: it's finding a solution to the problem of this annoying guy who mistakenly keeps attacking him again and again.
And this is the kicker. It links all the forbearance and self-control we've seen up until now together with his current post: where he finally breaks cover and shows us some genuine, unfiltered thoughts.
Then you have nothing to worry about from our votes.
We have some serious bad-attitude tells here.
In a game like this, I'm fully prepared to anticipate scum receiving an ability that would lead him to say that.
This is turning into one of those annoying day one squabbles that we like to have over how we each play the game of mafia (Cubus' Salvation mafia flashbacks), and it's annoying.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Uh, Az? It's kinda hard to say your attacker is deficient when everyone in it has made it quite clear your attacker is not (deficient). You don't call Albert Pujols a bad baseball player to his face.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29