Lynching Seppel today is REALLY dumb. Like, horrendously 'these cheerios taste like urine' dumb. Like, most everybody was in agreement that his book was a really townie item to have, right? And then people just started jumping back on when Seppel added more to the claim and gave them reason to think he's making stuff up, yeah?
GEE I KNOW WHY DONT WE KILL HIM NOW INSTEAD OF LETTING HIM PASS THE BOOK TO SOMEBODY TO VERIFY HIS FREAKING ROLE
OK SOUNDS GOOD MEETING ADJOURNED
For seriously, if he doesn't pass it or it ends up with a dude who dies, then you can come back to lynching him. What exactly is the harm in giving him a night to prove his item does what it says? Is there some magical need to lynch him today that I'm unaware of?
Or, we could lynch the guy who literally replaced out because of the pressure on him. How often does a townie do that? Sure, you're saying, it happens. But a townie freaks out in the thread at the pressure and yells a lot and then vanishes because he gets so frsutrated. Promatim reacted calmly to a couple posts and then very weakly tried to defend himself. When people called for him to do more, he didn't make another post until Ritalin asked for a replacement. Think about that.
IF he had life issues or time commitment problems, he would have said so itt.
IF he was town and freaking out, he would have shown that emotion in any of his posts.
He is scum who cracked under pressure and, rather than playing the frickin' game and letting us see him cracking and then lynch him, he made the jerk play and asked to be replaced.
As an aside, replacement shouldn't be allowed as this kind of a tactic. If I'm right, he basically guaranteed Seppel getting lynched and it gives his replacement a somewhat clean slate. If every scum who was pressured to that point replaced out, Mafia would be an impossible and pointless game.
I want to lynch Promatim, and I could care less if he or a replacement claims. There are only a very, very small number of things he could claim that would make me want to let him live and even with those I'd think he was lying.
I'm not willing to lynch someone who was lurking and replaced out on day 1.
Right, completely ignore the context of how he replaced out.
I am willing to lynch someone who refuses to cooperate with the town and whose best defense is to get us to game the mod about his item on day 1.
When did he refuse to cooperate? Do you think his item, as described, belongs on a scum role? I know Bats keeps going "derf derf his item obv doesn't work that way". What if it does? What if we can KNOW it does if we wait a day?
You don't have any more of a scum list? It's not like we are under a deadline here.
@Burboy: I didn't think your pbpa was super conclusive and there are more pressing things going on. What do you think of his replacement so far?
Oh really? Real life doesn't mean anything? That I'm job-hunting, trying to get over the death of my friend, in another mafia game and two play-by-post D&D games on another forum means nothing, that I'm scum because I was tired as hell, and I didn't have the energy to re-read at 11:30 at night, so I said I'd do it tomorrow? That's really bloody pretentious of you. I've completed all of 1 games of mafia so I'm still trying to adjust to multiple games at once. You know what? Screw you. I'm going to continue to 'lurk' because I don't care about putting myself foreward so everyone can see me. I'm going to try and view things as they go and in the bigger picture, to try to find out if somebody is scummy. I'm still not good enough to put together all the images of the game into one big picture.
And I really don't like how when I log off you acuse me of not going to re-read, because I'm going to do that right now with both games. See you all in a couple hours with my thoughts.
If getting out of town means he's scum? Right. I see we have 5 votes on seppel now in a 22 player game. It would be nice if the other players would check in too because by my count we only have 13 actives atm. Also, before we head into night I might have something to say. So I urge you guys to not hammer him while I'm asleep, because what I say might have some really good things for town.
TeknoLink was preparing his claim. I don't know why, but he reads legit.
"Something bothers me about Seppel's claim. Fu Xi lived roughly 4000 years ago. It's now the twentieth century (isn't it?)."
"I don't doubt that he is who he says he is, but I'm wondering how likely he is to be Town."
"Also, his item is a book. In the Cthulhu mythos, books have a tendency to make you go insane when you read them."
"And Seppel was the player who seemed interested in insanity."
"As such, my vote is staying on Seppel."
Woah there. STOP RIGHT THERE. I was not THE player who was interested in sanity. There were plenty of them. Kpaca, KrackShott, AsianInvasion, and someone else I don't remember. And I said let's NOT talk about it because sanity speculation is dumb. I gave my speculation and then dropped the issue because TALKING ABOUT GAME MECHANICS IS A DISTRACTION THAT IS VOID OF SCUMHUNTING. And it drags the game down.
Seriously, Islander Mafia's first 1000 posts were just about MECHANICS DISCUSSION and I wanted to shoot myself.
It is not fishing, I'm asking for your personal viewpoint. I've already explained twice why it isn't about flavour. I've been exceedingly patient with you, so please answer properly.
If the reason you're voing me isn't about flavor, then why is that all you're bringing up? Then you go on to say "Oh I believe his claim I just don't believe he's a vanilla townie and his book fires dongs in your mouth when you open it. And the dongs reduce sanity."
Seriously there is a disconnect here because you're basing this on the fact that I know something about sanity, and while I can't prove that I don't know something, I can and have shown that OTHER PEOPLE WERE TALKING ABOUT SANITY TOO, AND YOU THINK MY BOOK IS FULL OF DICKS.
KrackShott post 11: Asks why he's scum. Talks about Redwall and the Book of Changes.
Conclusion: KrackShott has been avoiding issues with players when he can.
@burboy: I endorse this product or service and would like to know more from KrackShott in particular about post #8 and why he hasn't taken a stance on ANYTHING.
Reposting because it bears repeating. And wow, Promatim AND KrackShott replaced out. CAN WE NOT BE STUPID AND PLEASE LYNCH ONE OF THEM
Lynching Seppel today is REALLY dumb. Like, horrendously 'these cheerios taste like urine' dumb. Like, most everybody was in agreement that his book was a really townie item to have, right? And then people just started jumping back on when Seppel added more to the claim and gave them reason to think he's making stuff up, yeah?
GEE I KNOW WHY DONT WE KILL HIM NOW INSTEAD OF LETTING HIM PASS THE BOOK TO SOMEBODY TO VERIFY HIS FREAKING ROLE
OK SOUNDS GOOD MEETING ADJOURNED
For seriously, if he doesn't pass it or it ends up with a dude who dies, then you can come back to lynching him. What exactly is the harm in giving him a night to prove his item does what it says? Is there some magical need to lynch him today that I'm unaware of?
Or, we could lynch the guy who literally replaced out because of the pressure on him. How often does a townie do that? Sure, you're saying, it happens. But a townie freaks out in the thread at the pressure and yells a lot and then vanishes because he gets so frsutrated. Promatim reacted calmly to a couple posts and then very weakly tried to defend himself. When people called for him to do more, he didn't make another post until Ritalin asked for a replacement. Think about that.
IF he had life issues or time commitment problems, he would have said so itt.
IF he was town and freaking out, he would have shown that emotion in any of his posts.
He is scum who cracked under pressure and, rather than playing the frickin' game and letting us see him cracking and then lynch him, he made the jerk play and asked to be replaced.
As an aside, replacement shouldn't be allowed as this kind of a tactic. If I'm right, he basically guaranteed Seppel getting lynched and it gives his replacement a somewhat clean slate. If every scum who was pressured to that point replaced out, Mafia would be an impossible and pointless game.
I want to lynch Promatim, and I could care less if he or a replacement claims. There are only a very, very small number of things he could claim that would make me want to let him live and even with those I'd think he was lying.
Seppel is not getting lynched today. Not if I have anything to say about it.
Teknolink's claim seems too risky to be a D1 no-pressure scum claim; I believe it. If he's alive tomorrow I expect to him to tell us exactly what abilities targeted him.
Right. I'm Sigus Schlomo Freud, Townie Doppelganger. If you target me with an ability, I gain your ability. In other words, if the cop targets me, I get the cop ability. Same goes for any other ability. Most likely if scum targets me with their nightkill, I get their nightkill ability.
I wanted this out since it might give us extra power roles to use in the game.
The claim is interesting. I agree that the flavor seems a bit odd, Freud copying the powers that our used on him. Whether or not it's true or not can be left for discussion at a later time.
Quote from TL »
I came out saying this because that way the doc can target me, and we can immediatly make use of this ability. If we have the doc targeting me, I can act as the 'doc', as well as making sure I can't get killed by having the original doc protect me. This way we have a doc protection, and if I do get killed somehow, at least the original doc survives without having to claim yet. Also, if the cop targets me, that means we have 2 investigations per night to use, which is a whole lot. Risky bet would be the vig targeting me, while I get protected by the doc, but if the scum decides to kill me as well, I'm not sure if the doc is able to stop two different sources of killing.
I don't like the idea of letting a PR confirm your role by 'wasting' their night action to protect or investigate you. The PR's should act based on the actions of everyone and the opinions that come up with.
Quote from nacho »
IF he had life issues or time commitment problems, he would have said so itt.
IF he was town and freaking out, he would have shown that emotion in any of his posts.
He is scum who cracked under pressure and, rather than playing the frickin' game and letting us see him cracking and then lynch him, he made the jerk play and asked to be replaced.
I want to lynch Promatim, and I could care less if he or a replacement claims. There are only a very, very small number of things he could claim that would make me want to let him live and even with those I'd think he was lying.
This. giving the benefit of the doubt to his RL commitments, we'll just have to see what the replacement has to offer.
Quote from Burboy »
he has not posts and posts telling us he's reading, so he has done nothing to change my opinion of his predecessor
reading yes, I'm slightly attached to my laptop having gone to a tech school. I read when I get the chance that way I don't have to read 80+ posts in one sitting. I didn't have more input after placing my vote, but after seeing Promatim 'cave in' like that, I'm happy with where my vote is.
This. giving the benefit of the doubt to his RL commitments, we'll just have to see what the replacement has to offer.
Uh, that's not what I said. You agree with that post where I'm advocating lynching him unclaimed because giving the replacement a second chance as scum is BS, but that seems like exactly what you want to do. Did you read my post or just feel like going 'me too!'?
Uh, that's not what I said. You agree with that post where I'm advocating lynching him unclaimed because giving the replacement a second chance as scum is BS, but that seems like exactly what you want to do. Did you read my post or just feel like going 'me too!'?
I did read it yes. The "if" scenarios you laid out are correct imo. I am for his lynching at the moment. And I will indeed take his (replacement's) claim with a grain of salt.
@Seppel: Right now, you and Promatim are the clear choices for the D1 lynch, at least in my head. The main drive for me voting for you right now is the serious misgivings about your cooperation and your claim. I really don't think you're making it up, but the book, even if its exact nature is unclear, still has the potential to be a powerful tool, and we need to be assured it will find its way to the right hands (one of the 4 or 5 people's on kpaca's list.).
If you can assure that, I will be more than happy than to nail Promatim, or any other of the definite scum.
Right, completely ignore the context of how he replaced out.
Totally am.
When did he refuse to cooperate? Do you think his item, as described, belongs on a scum role? I know Bats keeps going "derf derf his item obv doesn't work that way". What if it does? What if we can KNOW it does if we wait a day?
When did he refuse to cooperate? How about when he couldn't get all his role info out at once. Or how about when he said he was giving the book to AI and there was nothing we could do about it? And what do you mean do I think his item is a scum role? Sir, I'm going to be frank with you. Assuming an item is or isn't a scum role is stupid. I have allowed the fact that he has an item to have exactly zero effect on my desire to lynch him. If he were town, what motivation would he have for not cooperating with us? Why would we not inform him that if he dos not cooperate that we will lynch him? Or should we just let him do as he pleases in another effort to have a town full of people who do their own thing? The scum win rate here recently is absurdly high and it's because the town almost never cooperates with each other.
You don't have any more of a scum list? It's not like we are under a deadline here.
Seriously, to those thinking seppel is lying about his book: what do you make of him hinting at giving somebody it waaay before he claimed? You guys must think he is some kind of mafia god savant to be making all this up. Like, here is what are you saying happened today:
seppel sets up a fakeclaim. He is volunteering his item and going to be publicly accountable when the recipient goes WTF did you send me?
Then, he makes up almost being modkilled or he uses an irrelvant almoost modkill to get credit... Somehow? How does saying or lying about that help him again? Again, he's already invented this item that is flavorful in a very townie way since he's going to explain the modkill claim at some point. Then, you guys think he altered the details of his item to make it seem more townie, which IMO is a brilliant fake claim, but whatever, that's a ton of credit for creativity.
You guys buy all of this, and it really seems more reasonable than
that he is telling the truth and was horribly unthorough? I mean, he has been consistently slacking, too. AND you'd rather lynch him than verify his claim.
There was a game where I got speedlynched by the town and scum less than an hour into day. This lynch is almost as bad.
@Seppel: Right now, you and Promatim are the clear choices for the D1 lynch, at least in my head. The main drive for me voting for you right now is the serious misgivings about your cooperation and your claim. I really don't think you're making it up, but the book, even if its exact nature is unclear, still has the potential to be a powerful tool, and we need to be assured it will find its way to the right hands (one of the 4 or 5 people's on kpaca's list.).
If you can assure that, I will be more than happy than to nail Promatim, or any other of the definite scum.
I assure you that the book will fall into the right hands. I am passing the book tonight. One of the following things will happen:
1) The person I pass it to is town and will confirm the book is what it is and some sense will finally be smacked into everyone.
2) The person I pass it to is scum and will lie about the book and get me lynched.
3) The person I pass it to is scum and tells the truth. That person has a lot more work to do.
4) The person I pass it to dies. I get lynched.
Only #3 will cause a load of WIFOM.
There are scum on me who want me to die before I become a confirmed townie.
And what do you mean do I think his item is a scum role? Sir, I'm going to be frank with you. Assuming an item is or isn't a scum role is stupid. I have allowed the fact that he has an item to have exactly zero effect on my desire to lynch him.
Or should we just let him do as he pleases in another effort to have a town full of people who do their own thing? The scum win rate here recently is absurdly high and it's because the town almost never cooperates with each other.
Seriously, to those thinking seppel is lying about his book: what do you make of him hinting at giving somebody it waaay before he claimed? You guys must think he is some kind of mafia god savant to be making all this up. Like, here is what are you saying happened today:
seppel sets up a fakeclaim. He is volunteering his item and going to be publicly accountable when the recipient goes WTF did you send me?
Then, he makes up almost being modkilled or he uses an irrelvant almoost modkill to get credit... Somehow? How does saying or lying about that help him again? Again, he's already invented this item that is flavorful in a very townie way since he's going to explain the modkill claim at some point. Then, you guys think he altered the details of his item to make it seem more townie, which IMO is a brilliant fake claim, but whatever, that's a ton of credit for creativity.
You guys buy all of this, and it really seems more reasonable than
that he is telling the truth and was horribly unthorough? I mean, he has been consistently slacking, too. AND you'd rather lynch him than verify his claim.
There was a game where I got speedlynched by the town and scum less than an hour into day. This lynch is almost as bad.
I was not THE player who was interested in sanity.
<nods>
"Indeed not. Objection upheld."
"That business was started by AsianInvasion in #87."
"On the other hand, we hadn't had your first post by then, so that doesn't make you look suddenly better."
<looks thoughtful>
"On an unrelated matter, it is interesting to me that you have been posting to the thread all along but are only now taking a serious interest in your own defence."
1) The person I pass it to is town and will confirm the book is what it is and some sense will finally be smacked into everyone.
2) The person I pass it to is scum and will lie about the book and get me lynched.
3) The person I pass it to is scum and tells the truth. That person has a lot more work to do.
4) The person I pass it to dies. I get lynched.
"This analysis is wrong. Case 2 is very unlikely to ever happen, because if you were Town the scum who got you lynched would have made himself look really bad. Case 4 is moderately unlikely, so we're left with cases 1 and 3, which are indistinguishable."
"Also, you have missed off the cases where you are not Town. Which go something like this:"
<flips over the front page of his notebook>
<writes on the next page>
5) You are mafia and therefore know which scumbuddy to pass it to in order to hit case 3 every time.
6) You are mafia and the person you pass the Necronomicon to goes insane.
7) You are some other kind of scum and... well, it's not even worth speculating what the book might do there.
8) You are scum and claim that something goes wrong with your item passing such that you still have it tomorrow.
Kpaca, scum win so much here because people play super passive and mindless like bats is so proud of.
<shakes head sadly>
"I wish you were right. I assure you that most people here play with their groins just as you do. If the scum do better than they should it is because all that bluff and bluster stuff only works against inexperienced players."
"You don't mean "mindless" incidentally - that's what you're advocating - you mean exactly the opposite."
"Your deployment of resources is in any case wrong if you don't like the Seppel case. At the last vote count there were eight people voting Seppel, six of whom have barely been addressed on the matter at all."
"Make their votes go away and you won't have to worry about my one little vote being where you don't want it, will you?"
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MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
no wonder flavor is the only thing you can do, it's the only thing you actually care about
<shakes head>
"Good false claims are mostly about mechanics."
"Of course, nacho wizard probably hates mechanics too, since they don't involve shouting."
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<Limited Clan>
"On an unrelated matter, it is interesting to me that you have been posting to the thread all along but are only now taking a serious interest in your own defence."
"Why is that?"
I'm reading / re-reading and when that happens, things click into place.
"This analysis is wrong. Case 2 is very unlikely to ever happen, because if you were Town the scum who got you lynched would have made himself look really bad. Case 4 is moderately unlikely, so we're left with cases 1 and 3, which are indistinguishable."
Re: Case 2 - If scum get it and they're ahead from a D1 mislynch, a 3-for-1 would be amazing. Hell, I'd do it.
1 and 3 are not indistinguishable - unless you suck at analyzing a scum that receives a boon.
Check out Kpaca in Led Zeppelin or JSex and Pterrus in Physical Chemistry. I gave them my bonuses and they all slipped.
"Also, you have missed off the cases where you are not Town. Which go something like this:"
<flips over the front page of his notebook>
<writes on the next page>
5) You are mafia and therefore know which scumbuddy to pass it to in order to hit case 3 every time.
6) You are mafia and the person you pass the Necronomicon to goes insane.
7) You are some other kind of scum and... well, it's not even worth speculating what the book might do there.
8) You are scum and claim that something goes wrong with your item passing such that you still have it tomorrow.
"So if I understand correctly, you're in favour of not lynching Seppel because you're terribly impressed by the quality of his fake claims?."
"You should read more games on this site. We do falseclaims properly here."
How confident are you that Seppel is scum? Want to make a wager of some kind on it? I'll even give you odds, nub.
"This analysis is wrong. Case 2 is very unlikely to ever happen, because if you were Town the scum who got you lynched would have made himself look really bad. Case 4 is moderately unlikely, so we're left with cases 1 and 3, which are indistinguishable."
"Also, you have missed off the cases where you are not Town. Which go something like this:"
<flips over the front page of his notebook>
<writes on the next page>
5) You are mafia and therefore know which scumbuddy to pass it to in order to hit case 3 every time.
6) You are mafia and the person you pass the Necronomicon to goes insane.
7) You are some other kind of scum and... well, it's not even worth speculating what the book might do there.
8) You are scum and claim that something goes wrong with your item passing such that you still have it tomorrow.
Ok, so if one of these things don't happen, you agree that he's likely town? WHY DONT YOU WANT TO FIND OUT
<shakes head sadly>
"I wish you were right. I assure you that most people here play with their groins just as you do. If the scum do better than they should it is because all that bluff and bluster stuff only works against inexperienced players."
I like playing with my groin, tyvm
Uh, I'm pretty certain there are a bunch of inexperienced players in this game. So, you are admitting that you should be playing that way against them and aren't, cool.
"You don't mean "mindless" incidentally - that's what you're advocating - you mean exactly the opposite."
I promise, my aggression is directed very thoughtfully. I've already changed my minds on interactions with several people based on how they reacted to me, and I've pretty sure I caught one scum with it.
"Your deployment of resources is in any case wrong if you don't like the Seppel case. At the last vote count there were eight people voting Seppel, six of whom have barely been addressed on the matter at all."
"Make their votes go away and you won't have to worry about my one little vote being where you don't want it, will you?"
I'm more interested in the vote from a guy that feels he doesn't need to justify it further than "it's my opinion, go argue with somebody else". You and kpaca are the main ones pushing the Seppel wagon, I should ignore you guys?
Anyway, you totally misunderstand what I'm doing. You are way too thick-headed to persuade; I'm doing my best to show people why listening to you is foolish. So, my resources are currently maximized. Instead of arguing with each individual person on the wagon, I'm addressing every single one of them that is following you.
How confident are you that Seppel is scum? Want to make a wager of some kind on it?
"Not exceptionally confident, but he's got better odds than anyone else in the game now, which is my criterion."
Quote from nacho wizard »
"I'll even give you odds, nub."
"Leaving aside the fact that there's nothing we can legitimately bet with, should I take this to imply that you think your preferred candidate is scum with odds of over 50%?! Seriously? That's more than +100% over random!"
Quote from nacho wizard »
Ok, so if one of these things don't happen, you agree that he's likely town? WHY DONT YOU WANT TO FIND OUT
"I'd love to, but if you check the list you'll realise we don't get to 'find out' in most cases."
"But tell you what, I'll offer you a deal. You think you've got better than evens on your scum candidate? That's good enough for me. We'll lynch whoever it is you have such a laser read on."
"Then tonight, Seppel passes the book to Fenris. No negotiation. It must be Fenris."
"If Seppel is not cleared by the night and your candidate was not scum, you promise to vote for Seppel tomorrow for as long as I do."
"Do we have a deal? If so, I vote with you today."
Quote from nacho wizard »
And I hate mechanics about as much as you love dicks. Take that however you want.
<makes shocked face>
"Dammit - I thought I locked that entry!"
Quote from nacho wizard »
What is your alignment read on me, Bats?
"You've done nothing very scummy all game, so I have no reason to distrust you."
"When Seppel eventually dies, you'll look pretty good if he comes up Town."
"Other than that, no read yet."
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MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
@Seppel:What I'm about to do, is done on an act of good faith. You listen to bats and pass the book to Fenris. Otherwise, your back is going up against the wall.
See? That sounds a bit scummy to me. Trying to force a lynch of Seppel.
I do think that the birth year is a litttlleee bit off from everyone else's, however, and that's a bit suspicious.
This is just an awkward post to demonstrate causation for suspicion...
Okay. Seppel doesn't appear to actually know what the book is. I'm convinced now that he is, in fact, todays lynch.
We need to decide who hammers. I'm fine with anybody but Asian Invasion hammering.
unvote
vote: Seppel.
...and shortly thereafter you take the opportunity to latch onto the wagon when it has gained momentum and round it off for an unjustified pick for who you don't want to hammer. The flow is just whack. You started with Kpaca being scummy and the gaming of Seppel's role, and it didn't take you long to barn the current favorable idea at the time.
Why couldn't it all be clarified in the beginning? Plus, he answered your question, and then like two hours decided "oh wait I should clarify". Why did it take him two hours to figure out he needed to clarify this? Why would it have slipped his mind that it's two separate cards in the first place?
I am going to give you one post to respond to questions asked of you and to show a decent level of commitment and participation to this game or I am going to see you dead.
I recommend leaving Teknolink alone for now. If he is scum he will hang himself before long. Based on other games I've played with him (CCM III, Basic #12, Indiana Jones) what he's doing here is within the normal range for his town meta, if a little on the aggressive side.
It's weird how you find yourself defending him when his & AlphaInsid's lurkiness causes that whole case to be pretty much swept under the rug. Where's TL defending himself?
No, people are voting for you because you are paying zero attention and making really odd and terrible comments everywhere. When kpaca said respond to stuff, he meant to each one. Nobody was even accusing you of being an SK or Jack the Ripper, holy crap.
But does not paying attention = scumminess? Why does it make sense for scum to pay less attention than townies? I'm not arguing your points about making odd/terrible comments - that's fine...just merely addressing the first dozen words.
Most likely if scum targets me with their nightkill, I get their nightkill ability.
And die? So you are a member of the mafia realizing you aren't likely to be nightkilled, and thus, are looking for some town to give an ability to you? I suggest NOT targetting TL. Especially with the discontinued conversation between AInsid & himself.
Let it be known that I still prefer AsianInvasion.
Let it be known a guy with a book is trying to somehow pass himself off as confirmed town. Die scum.
I feel like the Seppel wagon has caused people to be swept under the rug, but justifiably so. Notably - Promatim, TL, KShot's replacement, and TMM. They should all be looked at further at a later moment in time.
"Not exceptionally confident, but he's got better odds than anyone else in the game now, which is my criterion."
"Leaving aside the fact that there's nothing we can legitimately bet with, should I take this to imply that you think your preferred candidate is scum with odds of over 50%?! Seriously? That's more than +100% over random!"
Well, I was just talking about Seppel, but pretty much. Gut math with made up numbers:
Seppel being town: 95%
Promatim being scum: 85%
"I'd love to, but if you check the list you'll realise we don't get to 'find out' in most cases."
By the way, parts of your list are impossible. There is no way a scum Seppel here has a book that lowers sanity or is otherwise harmful, outside of maybe it kills the recipient? He openly broadcast that whoever called 'dibs' would get it. If his item was harmful, there is simply NO WAY he announces his intentions and connects it to himself itt.
"But tell you what, I'll offer you a deal. You think you've got better than evens on your scum candidate? That's good enough for me. We'll lynch whoever it is you have such a laser read on."
"Then tonight, Seppel passes the book to Fenris. No negotiation. It must be Fenris."
"If Seppel is not cleared by the night and your candidate was not scum, you promise to vote for Seppel tomorrow for as long as I do."
"Do we have a deal? If so, I vote with you today."
Interesting. For one thing, if you are scum and happen to now they are both town (or at least non-mafia), then this is a horrible deal for me. And even if Seppel has something go wrong with the night action, I'd actually still be leaning town on him, though less so. I don't think I'd be able to keep people from lynching him in that scenario, though, so I kind of like this.
But why Fenris? I don't like the recipient being public, because that lets the scum blatantly interfere with the plan or Fenris could still lie. That'd be Fenris trading himself 1-for-1 with Seppel though, but the other one still sucks.
I want to consider this a little more, but I think I'd do it if Seppel gets to choose who he gives it to.
<makes shocked face>
"Dammit - I thought I locked that entry!"
"You've done nothing very scummy all game, so I have no reason to distrust you."
"When Seppel eventually dies, you'll look pretty good if he comes up Town."
"Other than that, no read yet."
That's what I thought you'd say. Oh well, would have been interesting if you'd said something different.
@Some One: Could you explain succinctly why you think Seppel is scum, again?
Personally, I don't like how he hasn't put up much in the form of a defense. Calling himself confirmed town and asking the town to not waste the D1 lynch on him because of that is just crap given the extenuating circumstances of the situation.
Personally, I don't like how he hasn't put up much in the form of a defense.
Uh, he has a bit. But ok, what do you think of MY defense of him?
Calling himself confirmed town and asking the town to not waste the D1 lynch on him because of that is just crap given the extenuating circumstances of the situation.
Because of what? What extenuating circumstances? Huh?
Well when my name comes up a couple of times I guess that means I should weigh in somehow.
I respect Bates idea and would follow suit due to the fact that I accept his reasoning right now. Of everyone that i've followed so far to me he feels the the only one who makes sense with Dagger occasionally saying something that I follow. Kpaca is on some odd trip that the universe must do as he wishes which is getting annoying to me and his continual inability to seem to do what the crowd asks for is even more annoying. I mean what did you have to lose from a claim of birth year? Seppel attempts a defense that really isn't convincing the more and more I hear it. If somone could give me a concrete summary against the other suspects I would hear it but right now it seems to get bogged down in between petty squabbling.
And nacho I feel as if you are trying way to hard to protect Seppel and should be more about attacking your top scum targets. Let the person defend himself. They appear more than capable but not quite convincing thats all.
And Kpaca, Nacho, and whoever disagrees with bate care to inform me whats your problem with the book going to me.
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Well when my name comes up a couple of times I guess that means I should weigh in somehow.
I respect Bates idea and would follow suit due to the fact that I accept his reasoning right now. Of everyone that i've followed so far to me he feels the the only one who makes sense with Dagger occasionally saying something that I follow. Kpaca is on some odd trip that the universe must do as he wishes which is getting annoying to me and his continual inability to seem to do what the crowd asks for is even more annoying. I mean what did you have to lose from a claim of birth year? Seppel attempts a defense that really isn't convincing the more and more I hear it. If somone could give me a concrete summary against the other suspects I would hear it but right now it seems to get bogged down in between petty squabbling.
And nacho I feel as if you are trying way to hard to protect Seppel and should be more about attacking your top scum targets. Let the person defend himself. They appear more than capable but not quite convincing thats all.
And Kpaca, Nacho, and whoever disagrees with bate care to inform me whats your problem with the book going to me.
Well for one thing this post is a reason for you to have the book.
For another you havn't posted near enough to prove worthy of making use of the book.
And thirdly you havn't posted enough to get yourself placed in the cleared town pile with the other folks on that list. In short, we can't trust you, and you aren't useful.
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Also please expound on the idea that I can't follow the crowd? Howso? Outside of refusing to participate in a dumb claim (like really what did we gain? We now know Seppel doesn't fit in with everyone else.............so hooray?), what have I done that isn't cooperative?
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Alright Kpaca I understand I haven't posted quite enough, but that is really because I don't quite know what to say. I'm trying to get a feel for what you guys are hunting for before I try to search around myself.
As for your cleared town pile what exactly must one do to appease you to be in said pile. Because its not like you've really been all that strong of an advocate for specific actions declaring town, or at least they are not evident for someone as new as myself.
As for the whole thing about not acting with the crowd I still stand that you unwillingness to just give a date was a show of being uncooperative. The saying might go if everyone jumped off the bridge would you. But this isn't a bridge and there is no harm. Also without your claim beyond your behavior what is there to make me say that you aren't scum as you won't provide the date. The date has supported Seppel being way off compared to the rest of us. I just want to make sure everyone fits in. If you say didn't that may make Seppel's claim of innocence more acceptable. If you fit it again hammers away at our Scum suspicions. As for your other methods of unwillingness to follow the crowd, maybe your correct and I may have misspoken or generalized a single reference into multiple instances. I might have taken belligerence and bullheadedness as fighting the crowd.
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GEE I KNOW WHY DONT WE KILL HIM NOW INSTEAD OF LETTING HIM PASS THE BOOK TO SOMEBODY TO VERIFY HIS FREAKING ROLE
OK SOUNDS GOOD MEETING ADJOURNED
For seriously, if he doesn't pass it or it ends up with a dude who dies, then you can come back to lynching him. What exactly is the harm in giving him a night to prove his item does what it says? Is there some magical need to lynch him today that I'm unaware of?
IF he had life issues or time commitment problems, he would have said so itt.
IF he was town and freaking out, he would have shown that emotion in any of his posts.
He is scum who cracked under pressure and, rather than playing the frickin' game and letting us see him cracking and then lynch him, he made the jerk play and asked to be replaced.
As an aside, replacement shouldn't be allowed as this kind of a tactic. If I'm right, he basically guaranteed Seppel getting lynched and it gives his replacement a somewhat clean slate. If every scum who was pressured to that point replaced out, Mafia would be an impossible and pointless game.
I want to lynch Promatim, and I could care less if he or a replacement claims. There are only a very, very small number of things he could claim that would make me want to let him live and even with those I'd think he was lying.
I am willing to lynch someone who refuses to cooperate with the town and whose best defense is to get us to game the mod about his item on day 1.
Right, completely ignore the context of how he replaced out.
When did he refuse to cooperate? Do you think his item, as described, belongs on a scum role? I know Bats keeps going "derf derf his item obv doesn't work that way". What if it does? What if we can KNOW it does if we wait a day?
You don't have any more of a scum list? It's not like we are under a deadline here.
@Burboy: I didn't think your pbpa was super conclusive and there are more pressing things going on. What do you think of his replacement so far?
@Tekno: Can you duplicate items or just abilities?
Unvote, vote Promatim if I wasn't already.
he has not posts and posts telling us he's reading, so he has done nothing to change my opinion of his predecessor
that is a pretty silly rule
TOWN
AsianInvasion
Talore
The_Muffin_Man
burboy
Calvin
Yoss
LEANING TOWN
Kpaca
Seratonin
Bateleur
AlphaInsidious
Fenris
Dagger
I DON'T KNOW
TeknoLink
desCoures
Some One
LEANING SCUM
Cyouni
SCUM
Promatim
*Backpedaling on his vote (#411)
Chubbz
*Holy god need to do a PBPA on this one
KrackShott / AquaJolt
*PBPA done on KrackShott
I don't like Cyouni's vote on AsianInvasion.
Talore reads legit here.
Mental note of who was on me before I claimed.
TeknoLink was preparing his claim. I don't know why, but he reads legit.
On second thought, maybe not.
Gut playing is
Woah there. STOP RIGHT THERE. I was not THE player who was interested in sanity. There were plenty of them. Kpaca, KrackShott, AsianInvasion, and someone else I don't remember. And I said let's NOT talk about it because sanity speculation is dumb. I gave my speculation and then dropped the issue because TALKING ABOUT GAME MECHANICS IS A DISTRACTION THAT IS VOID OF SCUMHUNTING. And it drags the game down.
Seriously, Islander Mafia's first 1000 posts were just about MECHANICS DISCUSSION and I wanted to shoot myself.
So in conclusion, your argument is void and dumb.
Oh, and ha:
My original reply.
Holy crap how did you get away with this? SPEAK.
If the reason you're voing me isn't about flavor, then why is that all you're bringing up? Then you go on to say "Oh I believe his claim I just don't believe he's a vanilla townie and his book fires dongs in your mouth when you open it. And the dongs reduce sanity."
Seriously there is a disconnect here because you're basing this on the fact that I know something about sanity, and while I can't prove that I don't know something, I can and have shown that OTHER PEOPLE WERE TALKING ABOUT SANITY TOO, AND YOU THINK MY BOOK IS FULL OF DICKS.
The dicks were erased, dude. They're gone.
---
Also, desCoures is in this game and not doing anything. This is worthy of notice.
Reposting because it bears repeating. And wow, Promatim AND KrackShott replaced out. CAN WE NOT BE STUPID AND PLEASE LYNCH ONE OF THEM
I'm up to post #500. Yoss rulez.
Seppel is not getting lynched today. Not if I have anything to say about it.
Teknolink's claim seems too risky to be a D1 no-pressure scum claim; I believe it. If he's alive tomorrow I expect to him to tell us exactly what abilities targeted him.
More after the weekend.
I make my own schedule :pmocolbert:
The claim is interesting. I agree that the flavor seems a bit odd, Freud copying the powers that our used on him. Whether or not it's true or not can be left for discussion at a later time.
I don't like the idea of letting a PR confirm your role by 'wasting' their night action to protect or investigate you. The PR's should act based on the actions of everyone and the opinions that come up with.
This. giving the benefit of the doubt to his RL commitments, we'll just have to see what the replacement has to offer.
reading yes, I'm slightly attached to my laptop having gone to a tech school. I read when I get the chance that way I don't have to read 80+ posts in one sitting. I didn't have more input after placing my vote, but after seeing Promatim 'cave in' like that, I'm happy with where my vote is.
Executive Infiltrator of [House Dimir].
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Uh, that's not what I said. You agree with that post where I'm advocating lynching him unclaimed because giving the replacement a second chance as scum is BS, but that seems like exactly what you want to do. Did you read my post or just feel like going 'me too!'?
I did read it yes. The "if" scenarios you laid out are correct imo. I am for his lynching at the moment. And I will indeed take his (replacement's) claim with a grain of salt.
Executive Infiltrator of [House Dimir].
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If you can assure that, I will be more than happy than to nail Promatim, or any other of the definite scum.
Winner of the First and Fourth Double Dare Single Elimination Contests
2009 July CCL: COMING THIS JULY
2008 December CCL: The Mechinations of Fate
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Totally am.
When did he refuse to cooperate? How about when he couldn't get all his role info out at once. Or how about when he said he was giving the book to AI and there was nothing we could do about it? And what do you mean do I think his item is a scum role? Sir, I'm going to be frank with you. Assuming an item is or isn't a scum role is stupid. I have allowed the fact that he has an item to have exactly zero effect on my desire to lynch him. If he were town, what motivation would he have for not cooperating with us? Why would we not inform him that if he dos not cooperate that we will lynch him? Or should we just let him do as he pleases in another effort to have a town full of people who do their own thing? The scum win rate here recently is absurdly high and it's because the town almost never cooperates with each other.
:itsamystery:
Maybe on GG.
Oh man now I'm totally discouraged.
it's weird for me too, but I'm glad you know the feeling
I've played one game on gg, that is a silly rule anywhere
seppel sets up a fakeclaim. He is volunteering his item and going to be publicly accountable when the recipient goes WTF did you send me?
Then, he makes up almost being modkilled or he uses an irrelvant almoost modkill to get credit... Somehow? How does saying or lying about that help him again? Again, he's already invented this item that is flavorful in a very townie way since he's going to explain the modkill claim at some point. Then, you guys think he altered the details of his item to make it seem more townie, which IMO is a brilliant fake claim, but whatever, that's a ton of credit for creativity.
You guys buy all of this, and it really seems more reasonable than
that he is telling the truth and was horribly unthorough? I mean, he has been consistently slacking, too. AND you'd rather lynch him than verify his claim.
There was a game where I got speedlynched by the town and scum less than an hour into day. This lynch is almost as bad.
I assure you that the book will fall into the right hands. I am passing the book tonight. One of the following things will happen:
1) The person I pass it to is town and will confirm the book is what it is and some sense will finally be smacked into everyone.
2) The person I pass it to is scum and will lie about the book and get me lynched.
3) The person I pass it to is scum and tells the truth. That person has a lot more work to do.
4) The person I pass it to dies. I get lynched.
Only #3 will cause a load of WIFOM.
There are scum on me who want me to die before I become a confirmed townie.
Like that never happens.
LIES. Quote me on this.
My original plan was to give it to AI, and now, I'm taking your suggestions into consideration.
This is a town kpaca talking.
You're asking me why I wouldn't cooperate?
And what haven't I cooperated with?
Just enjoy the ride.
Jesus, yes.
For the love of god everyone /barn this.
Also, I'm on my iPhone and quoting is a *****. Kpaca, scum win so much here because people play super passive and mindless like bats is so proud of.
<chortles into his mint julip and adjusts his monocle, bent over with rump eagerly thrust into the air, begging for penetration>
<nods>
<looks thoughtful>
<laughs>
<writes on the next page>
5) You are mafia and therefore know which scumbuddy to pass it to in order to hit case 3 every time.
6) You are mafia and the person you pass the Necronomicon to goes insane.
7) You are some other kind of scum and... well, it's not even worth speculating what the book might do there.
8) You are scum and claim that something goes wrong with your item passing such that you still have it tomorrow.
<shakes head sadly>
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
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<Limited Clan>
no wonder flavor is the only thing you can do, it's the only thing you actually care about
<shakes head>
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Sure thing.
I'm reading / re-reading and when that happens, things click into place.
Re: Case 2 - If scum get it and they're ahead from a D1 mislynch, a 3-for-1 would be amazing. Hell, I'd do it.
1 and 3 are not indistinguishable - unless you suck at analyzing a scum that receives a boon.
Check out Kpaca in Led Zeppelin or JSex and Pterrus in Physical Chemistry. I gave them my bonuses and they all slipped.
Yeah, have fun with those.
How confident are you that Seppel is scum? Want to make a wager of some kind on it? I'll even give you odds, nub.
Ok, so if one of these things don't happen, you agree that he's likely town? WHY DONT YOU WANT TO FIND OUT
I like playing with my groin, tyvm
Uh, I'm pretty certain there are a bunch of inexperienced players in this game. So, you are admitting that you should be playing that way against them and aren't, cool.
I promise, my aggression is directed very thoughtfully. I've already changed my minds on interactions with several people based on how they reacted to me, and I've pretty sure I caught one scum with it.
I'm more interested in the vote from a guy that feels he doesn't need to justify it further than "it's my opinion, go argue with somebody else". You and kpaca are the main ones pushing the Seppel wagon, I should ignore you guys?
Anyway, you totally misunderstand what I'm doing. You are way too thick-headed to persuade; I'm doing my best to show people why listening to you is foolish. So, my resources are currently maximized. Instead of arguing with each individual person on the wagon, I'm addressing every single one of them that is following you.
...Says the guy who wants to lynch the dude with a "I'm a Townie!" Certificate of Authentication before he can give it to somebody.
And I hate mechanics about as much as you love dicks. Take that however you want.
PPE: Hey, here's something interesting. What is your alignment read on me, Bats?
Flaming/trolling infraction. You need to lose the juvenile attitude and stop being casually insulting.
<makes shocked face>
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Let it be known that I still prefer AsianInvasion.
Unvote
Vote Promatim
Winner of the First and Fourth Double Dare Single Elimination Contests
2009 July CCL: COMING THIS JULY
2008 December CCL: The Mechinations of Fate
Double Dare to Design: The 5th Single Elimination Contest
Double Dare That Designer: The 2nd Single Elimination Contest
Makes the unwillingness to consider lynching him D1 a tad interesting. Not your unwillingness, but that of others.
I want to briefly look at TMM & the Seppel wagon:
This is just an awkward post to demonstrate causation for suspicion...
...and shortly thereafter you take the opportunity to latch onto the wagon when it has gained momentum and round it off for an unjustified pick for who you don't want to hammer. The flow is just whack. You started with Kpaca being scummy and the gaming of Seppel's role, and it didn't take you long to barn the current favorable idea at the time.
WORD
Sounds good to me.
It's weird how you find yourself defending him when his & AlphaInsid's lurkiness causes that whole case to be pretty much swept under the rug. Where's TL defending himself?
But does not paying attention = scumminess? Why does it make sense for scum to pay less attention than townies? I'm not arguing your points about making odd/terrible comments - that's fine...just merely addressing the first dozen words.
Vote Seppel
I have no idea what you are talking about
Naw dog.
You gave it a whole 2 posts to see if anyone minded? It's not about MINDING it's about what's BEST for the town.
And die? So you are a member of the mafia realizing you aren't likely to be nightkilled, and thus, are looking for some town to give an ability to you? I suggest NOT targetting TL. Especially with the discontinued conversation between AInsid & himself.
Wasting a lynch? What the heck are you, seriously? You've admitted to be vanilla with all your powers concentrated into a book.
Something my PoS X would say all the time. Please die. TY.
Let it be known a guy with a book is trying to somehow pass himself off as confirmed town. Die scum.
I feel like the Seppel wagon has caused people to be swept under the rug, but justifiably so. Notably - Promatim, TL, KShot's replacement, and TMM. They should all be looked at further at a later moment in time.
Well, I was just talking about Seppel, but pretty much. Gut math with made up numbers:
Seppel being town: 95%
Promatim being scum: 85%
By the way, parts of your list are impossible. There is no way a scum Seppel here has a book that lowers sanity or is otherwise harmful, outside of maybe it kills the recipient? He openly broadcast that whoever called 'dibs' would get it. If his item was harmful, there is simply NO WAY he announces his intentions and connects it to himself itt.
Interesting. For one thing, if you are scum and happen to now they are both town (or at least non-mafia), then this is a horrible deal for me. And even if Seppel has something go wrong with the night action, I'd actually still be leaning town on him, though less so. I don't think I'd be able to keep people from lynching him in that scenario, though, so I kind of like this.
But why Fenris? I don't like the recipient being public, because that lets the scum blatantly interfere with the plan or Fenris could still lie. That'd be Fenris trading himself 1-for-1 with Seppel though, but the other one still sucks.
I want to consider this a little more, but I think I'd do it if Seppel gets to choose who he gives it to.
That's what I thought you'd say. Oh well, would have been interesting if you'd said something different.
Personally, I don't like how he hasn't put up much in the form of a defense. Calling himself confirmed town and asking the town to not waste the D1 lynch on him because of that is just crap given the extenuating circumstances of the situation.
Uh, he has a bit. But ok, what do you think of MY defense of him?
Because of what? What extenuating circumstances? Huh?
I respect Bates idea and would follow suit due to the fact that I accept his reasoning right now. Of everyone that i've followed so far to me he feels the the only one who makes sense with Dagger occasionally saying something that I follow. Kpaca is on some odd trip that the universe must do as he wishes which is getting annoying to me and his continual inability to seem to do what the crowd asks for is even more annoying. I mean what did you have to lose from a claim of birth year? Seppel attempts a defense that really isn't convincing the more and more I hear it. If somone could give me a concrete summary against the other suspects I would hear it but right now it seems to get bogged down in between petty squabbling.
And nacho I feel as if you are trying way to hard to protect Seppel and should be more about attacking your top scum targets. Let the person defend himself. They appear more than capable but not quite convincing thats all.
And Kpaca, Nacho, and whoever disagrees with bate care to inform me whats your problem with the book going to me.
Well for one thing this post is a reason for you to have the book.
For another you havn't posted near enough to prove worthy of making use of the book.
And thirdly you havn't posted enough to get yourself placed in the cleared town pile with the other folks on that list. In short, we can't trust you, and you aren't useful.
As for your cleared town pile what exactly must one do to appease you to be in said pile. Because its not like you've really been all that strong of an advocate for specific actions declaring town, or at least they are not evident for someone as new as myself.
As for the whole thing about not acting with the crowd I still stand that you unwillingness to just give a date was a show of being uncooperative. The saying might go if everyone jumped off the bridge would you. But this isn't a bridge and there is no harm. Also without your claim beyond your behavior what is there to make me say that you aren't scum as you won't provide the date. The date has supported Seppel being way off compared to the rest of us. I just want to make sure everyone fits in. If you say didn't that may make Seppel's claim of innocence more acceptable. If you fit it again hammers away at our Scum suspicions. As for your other methods of unwillingness to follow the crowd, maybe your correct and I may have misspoken or generalized a single reference into multiple instances. I might have taken belligerence and bullheadedness as fighting the crowd.