You guys just don't get how effective it can be to test people with a little dust being shuffled up.
This seems like a poor attempt to cover your implosion. Whether or not these were your original plans it seems a but suspect.
DL. The way you also so suddenly placed your vote on Jobie with out giving any reason besides "I have my reasons" and then taking it off right after he says how experienced he is and what he's done that has riled up the Town. (and that it is possible to see where he is getting the idea that Sepiriel was trying to get us out of the random stage.)
Idk.. it almost seems that you BOTH are scummish because of DLs actions.
I do find DL to be more Scummy than Jobie but it is because of DL's actions and the length between the last three posts (unless someone snuck a post in haha) that give me reason to suspect you both. Igmeoy. No vote as of right now though..
You people take too god damn seriousness in a FIRST ROUND VOTE!
If your the townspeople, you should always vote no lynch round one, because you have 3/4 chance of hitting yourselves with no basis whatsoever. It's a foolish thought. If you must take this so seriously, then I will simply resign, because that entirely drains the fun out of the game.
/Quit
Did I just read this correctly?
If you have not played any games on here before, how would you know for sure there are 3 scum in this game?
I'd like an answer to this, but for now Vote: DL
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航 - Wataru. Call me that if your computer can't type Japanese.
Hehe, well this game is getting a little more fun.
/Unquit
I have apparently stirred up some real dust. Game on.
Cantrip actually doesn't seem like a sound vote to me, having witnessed what has occurred.
Unvote: Cantripmancer
Vote: Jobie
I have my reasons...
You guys just don't get how effective it can be to test people with a little dust being shuffled up.
Would you mind sharing these reasons? it doesn't seem sound to vote without saying anything substantial. What reasons were there to unvote cantrip, what has occured? Could you add some quotes? You have made several posts, with no substance or value whatsoever. You end with a general comment about testing people under pressure...it almost appears you're trying to disguise your play so far as a gambit to expose a scum?
First of all, Unvote
Actually, after re-reading, it appears Sepiriel was slyly trying to get us out of the random phase the whole time.
Yeah, Ima /barn Cantripmancer on this, but no vote yet. Got bigger fish to fry.
Jumping on a weak case. Have you never seen a townie implode before?
Uh, yeah, you have.
You agree with Cantrip on something, but then decide to vote on someone entirely different, giving little reason other than "weak wagon" and bigger fish to fry (I assume this means more important matters)? Could you expand on this? Are you saying you have more evidence against this "bigger fish" than what Cantrip has presented? To some extent I agree it was a weak case, especially given we are 7 pages in and DL was already at L-3, and our only reads were from his slip ups. My view of the case is to continue questioning DL. Currently I think he might be town (as I know I've done similar things in my first game).
You also mention Sepiriel trying to move us off the random stage so far, but then make no accusation or anything else. You don't even point out the implications of this? If they were taking us off the random stage, what does this mean to you? Are they town, wishing to scum hunt or scum wishing to progress a lynch? You make a simple observation and pin no weight to it. Are you just trying to promote discussion?
This seems like a poor attempt to cover your implosion. Whether or not these were your original plans it seems a but suspect.
DL. The way you also so suddenly placed your vote on Jobie with out giving any reason besides "I have my reasons" and then taking it off right after he says how experienced he is and what he's done that has riled up the Town. (and that it is possible to see where he is getting the idea that Sepiriel was trying to get us out of the random stage.)
Idk.. it almost seems that you BOTH are scummish because of DLs actions.
I do find DL to be more Scummy than Jobie but it is because of DL's actions and the length between the last three posts (unless someone snuck a post in haha) that give me reason to suspect you both. Igmeoy. No vote as of right now though..
You place an accusation on DL, giving some valid reasons but then bundle the same accusation on Jobie without giving any reasons...What was the thinking behind this? It almost seems like you're supporting one wagon while attempting to create another, by linking the two players together, in some form of mutual bond. Would you mind giving reasons for this, and reasons for suspecting Jobie? It seems to me you're trying to implicate others while remaining neutral, especially with contrasting the accusations on two players with the "no vote"...Why include the "no vote", why not leave it as just discussion?
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
Ya, I know i didnt justify my accusations of Jobie, but theyre not close to as intense as DL's and it has to do with Him claiming he is just a townie, no reason to worry about him.
He then claims to be experienced and has done a lot of stirring up of towns after DL votes him (not denying this...) and suddenly DL takes his vote off of him after before saying he has his reasons without further explaining.
Again i just have suspicions towards him that arent really fully justifiable. But i do believe my feelings towards DL are.
And I said no vote because i was unsure of who i wanted to vote for (though i quickly decided) and didnt want to vote off DL without thinking about Jobie. Not very smart i guess but w.e, I voted shortly after.
unvote (Cantrip isn't all that scummy, just aggressive)
Up until Doom Lich's implosion I read him as town all the way. Overconfident noob town who is getting frustrated that no one is listening to him. Then after everyone opposes his idea of NL'ing he self destructs a little. I see this as town behavior more than scummy coming from a noob. Let me explain this a bit differently:
Pretend you're noob scum. You're probably more worried about being caught and getting killed than trying to screw the town. Would you then bring attention to yourself by proposing No Lynch and then self destructing? I really don't see that as a reaction a noob scum would have.
Without a doubt, I believe DL is town.
Without a doubt? that seems like a very firm decision? What if he is just a n00b scum making poor decisions and poor jokes? I think your argument flips either way.
DL is now -2 (oldmajenkins was already voting DL). A claim is in order, as much as I'm opposed to his lynch.
Does DL know what a claim is? I think it would be beneficial for you, or another exp. member to explain to him what it is, and for the rest of the town to keep him at L-2 until he can claim.
Should have caught that.. /Vote DL
My suspicions feel more clear than ever which means still not very clear at all lol
Do you think he could have gotten that information from another game? or from online? You say it feels more clear, but then not very clear, so you're self doubting, or maybe trying to cover up the vote so you can rely on it later in your defense? Why do you vote if you don't believe he is genuinely scum?
I was merely observing the crazy amount of pointless/random votes on the first page.
I have seen a townie implode before, you're right. However, I've never seen somebody just give up and be driven to the point of QQing. He's got to be under some other stress, because I see no logical reason for him to do that. He was joking around, he got caught up in a lack of logic, and imploded. It looks like scum to me, and it's the only lead I've got.
I don't see how him wanting to quit feels more scummy than a town? Maybe he is frustrated no one believes him (like someone mentioned). Could you please elaborate.
@Everyone not voting for DL: What do you think of him? Of his scum-esque implosion?
You're outright claiming he had a scum-esque explosion, but do not give enough supporting evidence. What was your goal in getting other people to share their ideas? Was it to solidify a case or?
Do you think Doom Lich is scum? I haven't seen your opinion on it much yet.
I think the evidence at this point is very weak, and most tells could be caused by other things (noobiness). The other evidence is easily found online (like him knowing th number of players) or could have been an estimate on his part. While DL seems noob-town, I think this case against him is excellent, as with the pressure on someone else, scum seem more likely to slip up, and I have caught a few slip ups above.
Cantrip (I think it was you), I am still awaiting your reply on your miss quote. Please refer to my previous post, as this matter interests me.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
Ya, I know i didnt justify my accusations of Jobie, but theyre not close to as intense as DL's and it has to do with Him claiming he is just a townie, no reason to worry about him.
He then claims to be experienced and has done a lot of stirring up of towns after DL votes him (not denying this...) and suddenly DL takes his vote off of him after before saying he has his reasons without further explaining.
Again i just have suspicions towards him that arent really fully justifiable. But i do believe my feelings towards DL are.
And I said no vote because i was unsure of who i wanted to vote for (though i quickly decided) and didnt want to vote off DL without thinking about Jobie. Not very smart i guess but w.e, I voted shortly after.
I think you are mixing two separate things together. Jobie (and Manders, and some others) agree DL seems to be a town with a noob-explosion, which is likely to happen in basic games, which are designed for noobs.
You co-relate this to DL voting for jobie and then unvoting, despite it being two separate events. If DL is a noob-townie as jobie says, wouldn't it make sense he would change his vote a lot as he finds different things? He might have jumped the gun and voted, then re-read something. I would think this supports DL's case even more, while placing nothing directly on Jobie.
I think voting patterns don't represent the same tells as the voting reasons, and currently, you and DL both have very poor reasoning.
Finally, your logic is a little faulty. If you weren't sure who to vote on, why not make two separate cases against both, and let us discuss. I think the "no vote" just seems a little sus, like you're fence sitting. I might be seeing mountains where there are mice but, so I will let others give their insight too.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
Finally, your logic is a little faulty. If you weren't sure who to vote on, why not make two separate cases against both, and let us discuss. I think the "no vote" just seems a little sus, like you're fence sitting. I might be seeing mountains where there are mice but, so I will let others give their insight too.
I think IM making mice out of mountain and because im very quickly putting the posts and ideas together it all is relevant to my mood at the time (which is volatile when im in a basketball tournament lol)
I probably should be taking more time and not posting every time i think something and think it through but im not very wise
and its also my first time so im learning haha
I may think something seems scum when it is actually a Town tendency.. Idk yet tho, still gotta play more
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
]Actually, after re-reading, it appears Sepiriel was slyly trying to get us out of the random phase the whole time.
A moment MH if you will, I admit fully i did make an attempt to start serious discussion, whats more i believe since i did that post i have thereafter been on a serious posting manner (but please do correct me if im wrong)
Hehe, well this game is getting a little more fun.
So the game where we are all serious and completely leech the fun out of it all suddenly because serious? like really? because the only thing to happen since then is two or thre players making mention of you perhaps being n00b town with self-destructive tendencies (a case that can be easily turned around by saying you are n00b scum that doesnt handle pressure well btw)
/Unquit
Flip-flopping noted, you are now officially in my scum list
I have apparently stirred up some real dust. Game on.
Cantrip actually doesn't seem like a sound vote to me, having witnessed what has occurred.
Unvote: Cantripmancer
Vote: Jobie
I have my reasons...
Like, WHAT THE HELL DOOD? can you be any more scum?
You guys just don't get how effective it can be to test people with a little dust being shuffled up.
I get the effectiveness, this little statement just sealed your scum case (at least for me) and i will explain it so further below.
Oh, I definitely do. I've claimed an investigation on the first page of a Night Start game, proposed a soft claim, full claim and no lynch in past games. This along with your reaction under pressure are why I don't believe you're scum.
Dont like this at all, seems like jobie is coaching DL here by giving him all the examples to justify DL's claim rather than saying "Oh, I definitely do, have done several similar things myself in the past. This along with your reaction under pressure are why I don't believe you're scum."
IGMEOY Jobie
Ehhhh... that's a stretch, but I can see where you get that.
It is not a stretch at all, i admit it fully and with no shame or hiding intent that i tried to start a serious shift into the thread, i also noted the strong way in which i was doing so could be misconstrued as scummish which im not and therefore lowered down the gear and maintained a steady but constant serious tone instead of inquisition (until the DL case formed)
Thinking of it reading back, I clear you. You seem to opposed to lynching me to be scum wouldn't actively try to pull suspiscion off someone else...
Unvote: Jobie, pending future vote.
So.... "hey guys im suspecting Jobie but never mind it was just a brain fart because he coached me so well... err i mean is such a swell guy for not voting me" god you just keep digging don't'cha?
I'm going to go through and make a list of traits of everyone. It should help.
This would actually help, first helpful town thing you have said!
If you have not played any games on here before, how would you know for sure there are 3 scum in this game?
I'd like an answer to this, but for now Vote: DL
I actually made mention on this on my prior post, the fact he made the such a blatant slip up only helps to fix him in my scum list, now i did my research as well so i know the chances of there being 3 scum in this game are possible, however i would have never claimed the maximum amount of scums but rather gone with a 2-3 mention, while that gives the suspicion i know about this game its easier to explain as it being the result of research than of it being the result of insider information.
DL if i recall correctly in the Game request thread made mention he has played before, now as to what format he has played i cannot say, and this helps me solidify the case against him, he isn't inexperience (to the game itself, perhaps to the ability to be held accountable of slip ups that forum based games allow) and as such the implosion is much more likely a result of just being a bad scum player (the post in question has been removed now which is why i cannot confirm, do correct me if im wrong)
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
DL if i recall correctly in the Game request thread made mention he has played before, now as to what format he has played i cannot say, and this helps me solidify the case against him, he isn't inexperience (to the game itself, perhaps to the ability to be held accountable of slip ups that forum based games allow) and as such the implosion is much more likely a result of just being a bad scum player (the post in question has been removed now which is why i cannot confirm, do correct me if im wrong)
I'm 95% sure he stated earlier that he has played RL games, but this is his first foray into online/forum mafia.
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I've played quite a few times in person, but never actually on a board. I was just playing around at first. Right now is the Russian roulette round I know, so I figured voting myself would lighten the atmosphere, and couldn't hurt me too much...
Found the actual quote.
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Thank you Jobie for the quote. So Doom Lich may be new to the accountability of Forum Based Games, while that mitigates the claims slightly it still tells us he has had experience in the game and shouldn't have fallen for such a n00b mistake, and is more likely the result of him just not being able to handle scum pressure well.
Now as has been noted Doom Lich is at L-2 so once he gets online I believe a claim is in order.
Finally regarding TMM while i have no clue whether he is scum or town I did a little reading in some of his other games and he is acting pretty similarly to games where he has been linked to being n00b Town (the Clan Contest for instance), I am thereby considering TMM as Possibly Town.
In contrast if Arcadic fails to become more active and explain his reasons behind his/her reasons for voting TMM further than a "/barn MH" i will be adding him to my Possibly Scum list together with Jobie (DL is right now part of my assured scum list, and have yet to see him even try to address me and counter my points, he has so far been very general in his replies as if scared of dealing in a one on one discussion due to fear of further slip ups, also because it would mean that Jobie, if he truly is his scum buddy, wouldn't be able to coach/help him like last time without drawing undue suspicion)
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
Thank you Jobie for the quote. So Doom Lich may be new to the accountability of Forum Based Games, while that mitigates the claims slightly it still tells us he has had experience in the game and shouldn't have fallen for such a n00b mistake, and is more likely the result of him just not being able to handle scum pressure well.
Finally regarding TMM while i have no clue whether he is scum or town I did a little reading in some of his other games and he is acting pretty similarly to games where he has been linked to being n00b Town (the Clan Contest for instance), I am thereby considering TMM as Possibly Town.
In contrast if Arcadic fails to become more active and explain his reasons behind his/her reasons for voting TMM further than a "/barn MH" i will be adding him to my Possibly Scum list together with Jobie (DL is right now part of my assured scum list, and have yet to see him even try to address me and counter my points, he has so far been very general in his replies as if scared of dealing in a one on one discussion due to fear of further slip ups, also because it would mean that Jobie, if he truly is his scum buddy, wouldn't be able to coach/help him like last time without drawing undue suspicion)
Firstly, I believe real life games a very different from online games, and as such, i don't think this claim is very powerful. I think, for the record of this game, he should be assumed to have played no online games (due to their different nature), and be considered a noob. What do you think about this?
Are you claiming TMM is town, based on meta/previous games? Could you please provide some links? I don't really have much on TMM so I would be interested.
Finally, I would like more explanation on several points. Are you basing your claim on Arcadic purely on him barning with MH? This seems like a very weak reason, tbh. You explained that Jobie was suspicious for coaching, but then again, this is a n00b game, and I would imagine coaching occurs (I believe someone accused me of doing it?). People want to help new comers to learn the game, so some level of tuition is required. As such, I also consider this a weak reason. Overall, more time and posts have to be made before a solid case appears.
I would like a reply from Jobie and Arcadic, replying to these claims and giving us an insight into their version of the story.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
To whoever asked (sorry, I forgot): I've played zero games of mafia. I am playing 3 and replaced out D2 of one.
unvote: Doom Lich I'm not up for such a quick wagon, and I don't think that his implosion is scummy. I don't want a claim as I rather suspect this isn't going to end in a lynch and will just give the mafia more info.
You guys just don't get how effective it can be to test people with a little dust being shuffled up.
Oh, I definitely do. I've claimed an investigation on the first page of a Night Start game, proposed a soft claim, full claim and no lynch in past games. This along with your reaction under pressure are why I don't believe you're scum.
Dont like this at all, seems like jobie is coaching DL here by giving him all the examples to justify DL's claim rather than saying "Oh, I definitely do, have done several similar things myself in the past. This along with your reaction under pressure are why I don't believe you're scum."
IGMEOY Jobie
It seems I ignored this point previously. What I was trying to point out to everyone else was that I've done similar things in the past and done them as town. I don't see the problem in giving examples of things I've done in the past as opposed to saying I'm done similar things. It just means I lacked conciseness with my writing rather than anything suspicious.
Basically, I said I like tomatoes, spinach, carrots and squash as opposed to saying I like vegetables. Being vague, as you appeared to be accusing me of not doing, can cause complications.
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Mafia Stats (10-22 Overall) Random Mafia 2 Town MVP '08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
Firstly, I believe real life games a very different from online games, and as such, i don't think this claim is very powerful. I think, for the record of this game, he should be assumed to have played no online games (due to their different nature), and be considered a noob. What do you think about this?
I agree that real life games are a different format from forum based ones, the level of accountability is much higher due to the text nature of this game, also the ability to read intent is much more difficult due to the lack personal interaction, that however does not mean i would consider Doom Lich a complete n00b to this, he has shown enough knowledge in the game to be considered a full fledged n00b, his flippant attitude and his recent attempt at gambit proves he knows enough about the game and how its played, I therefore must say that I am in disagreement with you.
Are you claiming TMM is town, based on meta/previous games? Could you please provide some links? I don't really have much on TMM so I would be interested.
apologies for not producing links my internet is being rather jumpy at the moment (took me a good 5 minutes to get this two quotes to show up), I also have my wife nagging at me for hogging the Desktop and have to rush my post slightly, I will however say to check the CCMIV thread where TMM has, at least in my views displayed N00b town attitude, and also to check one of his other games (I believe it was either the Shrek or Angel), his attitude has remained the same throughout those games and its the same type of feeling i am having this game.
This however is just my personal opinion, I am not claiming him to be Town, just that if you where to ask me I would say he is acting in a manner similar to what i have seen him do as a player considered to be town.
I will cut the following part to address with your points as they arise.
Finally, I would like more explanation on several points. Are you basing your claim on Arcadic purely on him barning with MH? This seems like a very weak reason, tbh.
I am making no claim,I have said that in my opinion if Arcadic does not address his sudden appearance plus TMM vote with something more substantial than a "Well MH said it /barn" then that coupled with his lurking will be enough to make me consider him as possible scum, this does not mean I am calling him out as scum, only that if you are to ask my personal opinion, i would hold reservations against him due to this two points mentioned, whether this is a strong or weak reason matters little since its, again, just my own personal opinion and not a claim.
I will have to ask you at this point to be more careful with your wording, two times now you have accused me of making claims, when im just stating opinions, I hope this was an honest mistake on your part and not an attempt at misrepresenting me.
You explained that Jobie was suspicious for coaching, but then again, this is a n00b game, and I would imagine coaching occurs (I believe someone accused me of doing it?). People want to help new comers to learn the game, so some level of tuition is required. As such, I also consider this a weak reason. Overall, more time and posts have to be made before a solid case appears.
yes this is a game for beginners and as such mistakes are bound to be explained, however that does not mean scum cannot be found this way, is this likely to also accuse innocent towns? yes very likely, however that alone does not mean that scum cannot be caught in an attempt at coaching
I would like a reply from Jobie and Arcadic, replying to these claims and giving us an insight into their version of the story.
I would also like an answer about this, the more input the better, if anything I will be shown im wrong and i will apologize and move on to whoever shows signs of being scum.
It seems I ignored this point previously. What I was trying to point out to everyone else was that I've done similar things in the past and done them as town. I don't see the problem in giving examples of things I've done in the past as opposed to saying I'm done similar things. It just means I lacked conciseness with my writing rather than anything suspicious.
Basically, I said I like tomatoes, spinach, carrots and squash as opposed to saying I like vegetables. Being vague, as you appeared to be accusing me of not doing, can cause complications.
I understand however like I mentioned before it could also be an attempt at a scum trying to coach another newbie scum, if indeed this turns out to be false and im shown to be wrong then i will apologize, i hope you do not resent me that im going after scum, however misguided my methods or reasoning
Now i must log off, wife just threatened to making me sleep in the couch for a week if i dont let her use the Desktop.
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
I don't see how him wanting to quit feels more scummy than a town? Maybe he is frustrated no one believes him (like someone mentioned). Could you please elaborate.
Okay. Elaboration.
DL self votes as a joke, a sign that he doesn't take the game too seriously, which I understand. He then acts like scum and gets incredibly defensive when others vote for him. Eventually he explodes, possible under the stress of being scum. It could either be that he's new at this or he's scum, but I feel the second.
Quote from khorney06 »
What was your goal in getting other people to share their ideas? Was it to solidify a case or?
I had no goal. I was just curious as to what other people thought of DL, whether they thought he was being scummy or just sorta nooby.
Seeing that he is, in fact, new to the game, I will go ahead and Unvote. I hadn't seen the original post by DL saying this was his first online game.
To be clear, i am not piggybacking on anothers opinion, i just couldn't form decent sentences to explain my reasoning. I maintain that Muffins unquestioning actions of voting point to him having the info of who he needs to vote on. If i give no reason for voting on anyone, i am scum. I am simply pointing out that Muffin gave a very short reason for voting on someone i see as town.
To be clear, i am not piggybacking on anothers opinion, i just couldn't form decent sentences to explain my reasoning. I maintain that Muffins unquestioning actions of voting point to him having the info of who he needs to vote on. If i give no reason for voting on anyone, i am scum. I am simply pointing out that Muffin gave a very short reason for voting on someone i see as town.
It was as simple as me misunderstanding a noob town implosion.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
that however does not mean i would consider Doom Lich a complete n00b to this, he has shown enough knowledge in the game to be considered a full fledged n00b, his flippant attitude and his recent attempt at gambit proves he knows enough about the game and how its played, I therefore must say that I am in disagreement with you.
apologies for not producing links my internet is being rather jumpy at the moment (took me a good 5 minutes to get this two quotes to show up), I also have my wife nagging at me for hogging the Desktop and have to rush my post slightly, I will however say to check the CCMIV thread where TMM has, at least in my views displayed N00b town attitude, and also to check one of his other games (I believe it was either the Shrek or Angel), his attitude has remained the same throughout those games and its the same type of feeling i am having this game.
I will cut the following part to address with your points as they arise.
I am making no claim,I have said that in my opinion if Arcadic does not address his sudden appearance plus TMM vote with something more substantial than a "Well MH said it /barn" then that coupled with his lurking will be enough to make me consider him as possible scum, this does not mean I am calling him out as scum, only that if you are to ask my personal opinion, i would hold reservations against him due to this two points mentioned, whether this is a strong or weak reason matters little since its, again, just my own personal opinion and not a claim.
I will have to ask you at this point to be more careful with your wording, two times now you have accused me of making claims, when im just stating opinions, I hope this was an honest mistake on your part and not an attempt at misrepresenting me.
yes this is a game for beginners and as such mistakes are bound to be explained, however that does not mean scum cannot be found this way, is this likely to also accuse innocent towns? yes very likely, however that alone does not mean that scum cannot be caught in an attempt at coaching
I would also like an answer about this, the more input the better, if anything I will be shown im wrong and i will apologize and move on to whoever shows signs of being scum.
I understand however like I mentioned before it could also be an attempt at a scum trying to coach another newbie scum, if indeed this turns out to be false and im shown to be wrong then i will apologize, i hope you do not resent me that im going after scum, however misguided my methods or reasoning
Each of my paragraphs replies to the corresponding one of your paragraphs:
I assume in paragraph the first, you mean he is not a n00b. Could you give examples of this gambit? If you refer to he /quit, /unquit, then I think it has more to do with the noob implosion. What do other members think of this matter, does real life mafia count as much? I think the complexity of this game outweighs real life.
I think meta/other game calls are poor ones to make, especially this early on.
"Put money in your purse". Why do you mention it's your opinion...3 times in the sentence? Are you trying to make a back up in case you become implicated some how?
Ah, sorry for this...English isn't my first language, and I have always thought claim means...well claim...to state an opinion?
Due to limited experience I don't know the implications of coaching, so I offer no substantial comment yet.
@Arcadic:
You offer an "arsed half (or however you say it)" explanation about not being able to write decent sentences? I don't get this. If you can't even express your reasoning and rely on others, what benefit are you then?
Then you continue on, after offering little explanation to try and put pressure on TMM, or so I assume. You back this up with a weak reason, saying that "if I give no reason for voting on anyone, I am scum", but then contrast this with pointing out TMM actually gave a reason, no matter how short it was. Why not question him about the reason? This just seems a little weird to me, trying to put all the blame/pressure on TMM.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
My sentence comment was refering to last night, after i had caught up in the forums, i got tired but wanted to get a small post out before getting to bed.
@Everyone not voting for DL: What do you think of him? Of his scum-esque implosion?
This line of text points to TMM as scum and DL as town. Only a scum would be that quick to jump on a person for what was a pretty obvious ploy to exploit the more experienced forum mafia gamers and make them start posting to get us into the real stages of the game and not the random. You'll also note that this is my first game of mafia through the forum medium, having played it extensivly through college as a party game/D&D warmup/Acting Class excersize. I've seen DL's tactics used before, and they are never terribly effective, but it seems to always root out a good suspect.
For now my vote stands, and FOS to anyone who voted DL right after /quit. so Sepiriel, oldmajenkins, Rubin8o, FOS U
Each of my paragraphs replies to the corresponding one of your paragraphs:
I assume in paragraph the first, you mean he is not a n00b. Could you give examples of this gambit? If you refer to he /quit, /unquit, then I think it has more to do with the noob implosion. What do other members think of this matter, does real life mafia count as much? I think the complexity of this game outweighs real life.
A gambit as defined in Mafia is, at least to my understanding, a ploy by which to make yourself appear more townish, albeit with high risks, in this case he went with the /quit ploy, some posts where made and later he goes "well guys guess what it was all a trick to get some feathers ruffled so /unquit" if he had really found the game so unfun and serious (his reason for the whole /quit) he would have asked to eb replaced right then and there, he instead decides to cut his losses and once again pretend its all a big joke
I think meta/other game calls are poor ones to make, especially this early on.
I am not a big defender of meta however i have seen other users in other games use it regularly to defend positions, again like i have mentioned before this is only my personal opinion.
"Put money in your purse". Why do you mention it's your opinion...3 times in the sentence? Are you trying to make a back up in case you become implicated some how?
Because i want to make sure that it is irrevocably clear that what im saying is a matter of personal opinion and not a statement of fact.
Ah, sorry for this...English isn't my first language, and I have always thought claim means...well claim...to state an opinion?
as per Dictionary.com:
claim
1.to demand by or as by virtue of a right; demand as a right or as due: to claim an estate by inheritance.
2.to assert and demand the recognition of (a right, title, possession, etc.); assert one's right to: to claim payment for services.
3.to assert or maintain as a fact: She claimed that he was telling the truth.
4.to require as due or fitting: to claim respect.
Due to limited experience I don't know the implications of coaching, so I offer no substantial comment yet.
So yeah I am stating personal opinion, not stating fact, your use of the word claim make it sound like i am stating fact when the only thing i am doing is presenting my personal opinion, a slight misrepresentation and one that I would like corrected post haste as it paints me in a light that could rise suspicion which is unduly warranted.
I am also gonna /barn with you in regards to your response to Arcadic, his actions and statements so far are making me suspicious of him.
This line of text points to TMM as scum and DL as town. Only a scum would be that quick to jump on a person for what was a pretty obvious ploy to exploit the more experienced forum mafia gamers and make them start posting to get us into the real stages of the game and not the random. You'll also note that this is my first game of mafia through the forum medium, having played it extensivly through college as a party game/D&D warmup/Acting Class excersize. I've seen DL's tactics used before, and they are never terribly effective, but it seems to always root out a good suspect.
Do note he was asking everyone not in the wagon their reasons for doubting the wagon, that is a very sensible town question, also do consider the thread had already been in serious discussion by the time this "ploy" had started, we where (and still are) asking clarification from DL to which he reacted by imploding and having a whine break about the seriousness of it all and the unfun members of this game
For now my vote stands, and FOS to anyone who voted DL right after /quit. so Sepiriel, oldmajenkins, Rubin8o, FOS U
See now this is a scum tell to me, he claims to have caught up with the thread but is too tired to post decent replies and then wrongly casts a FoS on me since i had already casted my vote prior to the whole /quit "ploy" something he would have been well aware had he actually been paying attention to the thread.
So congrats Arcadic you have upgraded from an IGMEOY to a full fledged FoS.
FoS Arcadic
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Quote from »
Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
My sentence comment was refering to last night, after i had caught up in the forums, i got tired but wanted to get a small post out before getting to bed.
This line of text points to TMM as scum and DL as town. Only a scum would be that quick to jump on a person for what was a pretty obvious ploy to exploit the more experienced forum mafia gamers and make them start posting to get us into the real stages of the game and not the random. You'll also note that this is my first game of mafia through the forum medium, having played it extensivly through college as a party game/D&D warmup/Acting Class excersize. I've seen DL's tactics used before, and they are never terribly effective, but it seems to always root out a good suspect.
I find it hard to believe that he exploded and then rage quit to get players' attention. You remind me of one of those English teachers that put more thought into literature than even the author did.
I find it hard to believe that he exploded and then rage quit to get players' attention. You remind me of one of those English teachers that put more thought into literature than even the author did.
"You see, the flowers he gives his deaf half-sister are purple to signify that he his purple on the inside. But he leaves the stems green because he is green with envy that she will feel the sweet embrace of death. On Wendsday, we'll talk about the 4th sentence in this 500 page story." I hate this too. However, you defense of him just further make me suspicious of you. It may be you are both scum and DL's "implosion" was purposeful to get us out of the /random. After all, you can hardly ever infer tone through text. IGMEOY Doom Lich
Sepiriel, after looking at why i thought you voted after the implosion, i see why i mis-placed my mistrust in you. I had each page of the thread open in a different firefox tab and switched the pages around when reading. My FOS was misplaced. I am /endfos Sepiriel for now.
[/quote=Sepiriel] Do note he was asking everyone not in the wagon their reasons for doubting the wagon, that is a very sensible town question, also do consider the thread had already been in serious discussion by the time this "ploy" had started, we where (and still are) asking clarification from DL to which he reacted by imploding and having a whine break about the seriousness of it all and the unfun members of this game[/quote]
If it is a typical town move, i my inexperience in the forum media would not tell me so.
After all, you can hardly ever infer tone through text.
I have to disagree on this point. I find it fairly easy to find tone in text. Does Shakespeare have the same tone as Hemingway? Albert Camus as F. Scott Fitzgerald? Dr. Seuss as Anne Frank? By word choice, pacing, and emphasis it's very easy to tell tone and is one of the best tools in a case-maker/scum hunters arsenal.
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I have seen a townie implode before, you're right. However, I've never seen somebody just give up and be driven to the point of QQing. He's got to be under some other stress, because I see no logical reason for him to do that. He was joking around, he got caught up in a lack of logic, and imploded. It looks like scum to me, and it's the only lead I've got.
It seems like this kind of thing happens in every basic I play in. Granted, usually they replace out, but it's not uncommon.
Hehe, well this game is getting a little more fun.
/Unquit
I have apparently stirred up some real dust. Game on.
Cantrip actually doesn't seem like a sound vote to me, having witnessed what has occurred.
Unvote: Cantripmancer
Vote: Jobie
I have my reasons...
You guys just don't get how effective it can be to test people with a little dust being shuffled up.
See, without this kind of "I was messing with you" response, I was ok with your explosion. Never having played real life Mafia, I figured that day 1 of live games was likely closer to the "russian roulette" that you mentioned before, and that maybe your issues were stemming from the differences therein. But this (and the bad vote/unvote of Jobie) seem like you know more than you're letting on, which paints your explosion poorly.
This seems like a poor attempt to cover your implosion. Whether or not these were your original plans it seems a but suspect.
DL. The way you also so suddenly placed your vote on Jobie with out giving any reason besides "I have my reasons" and then taking it off right after he says how experienced he is and what he's done that has riled up the Town. (and that it is possible to see where he is getting the idea that Sepiriel was trying to get us out of the random stage.)
Idk.. it almost seems that you BOTH are scummish because of DLs actions.
I do find DL to be more Scummy than Jobie but it is because of DL's actions and the length between the last three posts (unless someone snuck a post in haha) that give me reason to suspect you both. Igmeoy. No vote as of right now though..
This solidifies my vote on Oldmajenkins. You've managed to paint DL AND the player he accused as scumbuddies, expressed suspicions of both, but not voted either.
Should have caught that.. /Vote DL
My suspicions feel more clear than ever which means still not very clear at all lol
I wasn't real fond of Wataru's attack on DL for knowing that there are 3 scum in the game (which is a reasonable assumption for a person to make from the mafia articles), but you jumping on the wagon for it is even worse.
Without a doubt? that seems like a very firm decision? What if he is just a n00b scum making poor decisions and poor jokes? I think your argument flips either way.
Jobie's assumption was understandable to me. Your reaction and thoroughness of scrutiny make me feel that you are town.
Quote from Khorney »
Does DL know what a claim is? I think it would be beneficial for you, or another exp. member to explain to him what it is, and for the rest of the town to keep him at L-2 until he can claim.
This is a reasonable thought. Since no one else has addressed this (and DL hasn't posted since), I will.
In online mafia, it's traditional to "claim" once you are two votes from being lynched (referred to as "L-2"). Since the lynch threshold is 7, and you (DL) are/were at 5 votes, you were at L-2 and would normally have claimed, which entails paraphrasing certain information from the role message the mod sent you at the start of the game (NOT quoting, but paraphrasing in your own words). This info includes your name (if you were given a role name by the mod), alignment (townies say "town", scum (generally) lie and say "town"), any abilities you have (cop, doctor, (again, scum usually lie, as their abilities aren't pro-town)), and any flavor you were given to help back up this information. Sometimes it's beneficial for a townie who is forced to the point of claiming to lie in their claim, but it's rare and considered bad unless you really know what you're doing.
However, you have since been brought back to L-3 (from Rubin unvoting, I believe), so you shouldn't claim when you return unless you are put back to L-2.
Quote from Khorney »
Cantrip (I think it was you), I am still awaiting your reply on your miss quote. Please refer to my previous post, as this matter interests me.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I reread your previous post and can only ??? at your question.
I think IM making mice out of mountain and because im very quickly putting the posts and ideas together it all is relevant to my mood at the time (which is volatile when im in a basketball tournament lol)
I probably should be taking more time and not posting every time i think something and think it through but im not very wise
and its also my first time so im learning haha
I may think something seems scum when it is actually a Town tendency.. Idk yet tho, still gotta play more
That last sounds like scum leaving himself an out.
A gambit as defined in Mafia is, at least to my understanding, a ploy by which to make yourself appear more townish, albeit with high risks
Replace "to make yourself appear more townish" with "to win the game" and you've got it right. A gambit usually involves higher risk than other tactics and sometimes involves lying/omitting truths to achieve ends that you aren't positive about.
I wasn't real fond of Wataru's attack on DL for knowing that there are 3 scum in the game (which is a reasonable assumption for a person to make from the mafia articles), but you jumping on the wagon for it is even worse.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I reread your previous post and can only ??? at your question.
That last sounds like scum leaving himself an out.
Yup, it definitely sounds like an out.
It's fairly common. I can vouch for MH: She (and I) hates the lurk.
I agree with the first point, but given the amount of jumping around etc. I think a lot of people fall in that category, eg: most of the people on the DL wagon. I still think we need lots more replies to make a discovery with conclusiveness.
For the next two; I have seen it happen a lot in this game. Lots of people seem willing to accuse others, but no one seems willing to back it.
Ok...But MH (I assume you mean mandershex?) hasn't posted a lot tbh. I just thought of bringing it up, because in the last game I was in (basic24) someone used the idea of encouraging others to post as evidence in a case. I suppose it's not very strong, if at all valid.
Ok:
FoS OMJ
Give me a minute and I will construct my case below.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
/Vote Mandershex
Dont like his avatar... lol [I]jp but random stage is random and his posts stick out to me almost as much as Sepiriels.. I do NOT have my eye on him though [/I]lol.
I don't think I can even start in explaining how scummy this looks. So he's saying that his vote on Manders is a (joke post), but then goes on to but suspicion on her and Sepiriel at the same time! THEN goes on to contradict what he just said, saying that he does not, in fact, hold much suspicion on them. It seems to me he's trying to put pressure/blame on others very early on...This is his first or second post, too.
Votes DL, gives no reasoning and then says igmeoy. It should be noted that scum, voting for scum early on, is an easy to stop tactic, especially with no justification on the vote [reference: mafiascum wiki]. Even if it wasn't true, the fact that he doesn't justify it seems weird.
Bold statement.
Idk Scummish tendencies (first game) but.. It doesn't feel right for town. I'm not saying he's scum but from all his posts in sequence I get a scummish feel.
Who knows lol
anyway the way that sounds sounds almost like your protecting him. I doubt that would be smart play by a scum at this stage in this fashion but Idk lol just saying
(idk my acronyms yet) so igmeoy very mildly
He claims he doesn't know much about tells, given it's his first game. This could be true, but the rest of the post seems like he is taking the persona of the scum, or placing himself in the scums shoes. I do not know why he would do this, as his point (about protecting) could be made much better and clearer. Instead he talks about what the scum would do, which very much "pings my scumdar". Then he closes with igmeoy "very mildly", again, no substance or support for his claims. He makes claims then backs off and waits for someone else to pick them up and support them. He never feels strong about his, and always leaves ways to back out later if needed.
I'm rather pessimistic so that's why lol
and eh possibly
but again I'm a pessimist so I tend to think in the way that would be bad for me but w.e
just that's what I had to say about that
and sorry for the noncoherent post lol I'm half asleep
This is in response to me questioning him about the post on top (reference: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=5562693&postcount=81). He gives a poor reason to, saying he is pessimistic, which I don't see how that explains anything. The point is, he is speculating what the scum will do, and is even going into their roles to try and determine, with little success. Then again, he says he is tired, creating ANOTHER way to escape!
Another point...so far, all his posts have had NO CONTENT. They have words, but nothing of value in them! Nothing we can use to further our understanding of the situation.
This seems like a poor attempt to cover your implosion. Whether or not these were your original plans it seems a but suspect.
DL. The way you also so suddenly placed your vote on Jobie with out giving any reason besides "I have my reasons" and then taking it off right after he says how experienced he is and what he's done that has riled up the Town. (and that it is possible to see where he is getting the idea that Sepiriel was trying to get us out of the random stage.)
Idk.. it almost seems that you BOTH are scummish because of DLs actions.
I do find DL to be more Scummy than Jobie but it is because of DL's actions and the length between the last three posts (unless someone snuck a post in haha) that give me reason to suspect you both. Igmeoy. No vote as of right now though..
I can not even begin to point out what's scummy here. But I will try...just for lovely people :p. So, first sentence, he points the finger at DL, reasonable, giving a reason. He then realises he actually might have to scumhunt to appear town, so starts trying. He points the finger at DL again, giving some adequate reasons (I suppose). Then he puts the blame on Jobie, but makes sure he puts the "idk [I don't know]" and the "almost seems" to make sure he can back out. But then, he places actual blame on both of them, with no evidence on jobie, referencing three posts he did not even use to create his accusation. However, despite pointing at two people and calling them scummy, he decides not to vote. Could this be a means to get the discussion off him and onto someone else? I would like more input on this...Cantrip?
Ya, I know i didnt justify my accusations of Jobie, but theyre not close to as intense as DL's and it has to do with Him claiming he is just a townie, no reason to worry about him.
He then claims to be experienced and has done a lot of stirring up of towns after DL votes him (not denying this...) and suddenly DL takes his vote off of him after before saying he has his reasons without further explaining.
Again i just have suspicions towards him that arent really fully justifiable. But i do believe my feelings towards DL are.
And I said no vote because i was unsure of who i wanted to vote for (though i quickly decided) and didnt want to vote off DL without thinking about Jobie. Not very smart i guess but w.e, I voted shortly after.
Tries to make an excuse for no justification, saying that DL feels more scummy. However, if I recall you tentatively (seems) called them both scum! Then you say "no reason to worry about him". Are you trying to cover a buddy or what? Are you trying to concentrate the pressure on DL first? he leaves another opening to get out of the Jobie case (not fully justified) but at this point DL is L-2, so a lynch seems imminent, so he remains on that case. Then he says he didn't know which one to vote for (but before he says he suspects DL more?). All these posts are riddled with contradictions!
I think IM making mice out of mountain and because im very quickly putting the posts and ideas together it all is relevant to my mood at the time (which is volatile when im in a basketball tournament lol)
I probably should be taking more time and not posting every time i think something and think it through but im not very wise
and its also my first time so im learning haha
I may think something seems scum when it is actually a Town tendency.. Idk yet tho, still gotta play more
Gives yet more excuses to back out. Apparently his posts correspond to his mood and as such, might not be clear. At least that's what he wants us to think. Then he says he should take more time to construct his posts...another way out (or even more time to word his posts so he doesn't appear scummy :P, take your pick). He then tries to dig himself out with "something seems scum when it is actually town". So essentially, he's playing the discreet noob card? What do you all think? I call this a back up option. He is hinting at it, but doesn't want to play it straight away (i.e saying he doesn't know how to react/what's going on), leaving it for another time when the pressure is greater.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
I'm not sure that it's right to put all this pressure on OMJ for being decisive. I do think it was a bad, and anti town thing to barn the "how would he know there were three mafiosos" thing when really most people in their first game know this. Hell,I haven't completed a game here and I know this, so this has absolutely no substance.
It seems to me that you're chasing someone who's just not that good at playing mafia. There's as little reason for scum to be indecisive and flip-flop as town.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
I think that khorney's analysis is good, and while OMJ's behavior could be attributed to being new and uncertain, it feels like new and uncertain scum behavior rather than town.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
I have to say your analysis makes very good and valid points, OMJ needs to step up and clear this issues, that being said i am as of this moment unsure about removing my vote on Doom Lich, i feel that to do so now would be to remove all chances on making him accountable and make him explain himself (something that has been asked of him since he first started with the self-voting jokes), if he decides to post and explain himself to a degree that can be deemed actually helpful i will then consider supporting the case against OMJ since your points are very valid and should be explored more (this does not mean i am removing all suspicions on DL or even removing my vote, but i will be more inclined to participate in an investigation of OMJ and if enough evidence surfaces then vote for him and relegate Doom Lich as my Day 2 vote).
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
Oreo, Glazing people better than Dunkin' Donuts since 2009
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
I was merely observing the crazy amount of pointless/random votes on the first page.
I have seen a townie implode before, you're right. However, I've never seen somebody just give up and be driven to the point of QQing. He's got to be under some other stress, because I see no logical reason for him to do that. He was joking around, he got caught up in a lack of logic, and imploded. It looks like scum to me, and it's the only lead I've got.
Fair enough on this, but you go forward to post this:
Okay. Elaboration.
DL self votes as a joke, a sign that he doesn't take the game too seriously, which I understand. He then acts like scum and gets incredibly defensive when others vote for him. Eventually he explodes, possible under the stress of being scum. It could either be that he's new at this or he's scum, but I feel the second.
I had no goal. I was just curious as to what other people thought of DL, whether they thought he was being scummy or just sorta nooby.
Seeing that he is, in fact, new to the game, I will go ahead and Unvote. I hadn't seen the original post by DL saying this was his first online game.
followed by
It was as simple as me misunderstanding a noob town implosion.
Why the sudden change of heart?
It seems to me as if you don't really care where your vote is, as long as it's on a townie. Meaning I think you're scum and you are definitely my top choice for that.
You agree with Cantrip on something, but then decide to vote on someone entirely different, giving little reason other than "weak wagon" and bigger fish to fry (I assume this means more important matters)? Could you expand on this? Are you saying you have more evidence against this "bigger fish" than what Cantrip has presented?
Nope, just means I'm feeling TMM has more likely scum than omj.
You also mention Sepiriel trying to move us off the random stage so far, but then make no accusation or anything else. You don't even point out the implications of this? If they were taking us off the random stage, what does this mean to you? Are they town, wishing to scum hunt or scum wishing to progress a lynch? You make a simple observation and pin no weight to it. Are you just trying to promote discussion?
Generally, scum want to end the RVS because (a) it doesn't provide any relevant information for them and (b) quite often, scum will make a slip in the RVS that will end in their demise.
A moment MH if you will, I admit fully i did make an attempt to start serious discussion, whats more i believe since i did that post i have thereafter been on a serious posting manner (but please do correct me if im wrong)
This however is just my personal opinion, I am not claiming him to be Town, just that if you where to ask me I would say he is acting in a manner similar to what i have seen him do as a player considered to be town.
I will cut the following part to address with your points as they arise.
I am making no claim,I have said that in my opinion if Arcadic does not address his sudden appearance plus TMM vote with something more substantial than a "Well MH said it /barn" then that coupled with his lurking will be enough to make me consider him as possible scum, this does not mean I am calling him out as scum, only that if you are to ask my personal opinion, i would hold reservations against him due to this two points mentioned, whether this is a strong or weak reason matters little since its, again, just my own personal opinion and not a claim.
I will have to ask you at this point to be more careful with your wording, two times now you have accused me of making claims, when im just stating opinions, I hope this was an honest mistake on your part and not an attempt at misrepresenting me.
Because i want to make sure that it is irrevocably clear that what im saying is a matter of personal opinion and not a statement of fact.
as per Dictionary.com:
So yeah I am stating personal opinion, not stating fact, your use of the word claim make it sound like i am stating fact when the only thing i am doing is presenting my personal opinion, a slight misrepresentation and one that I would like corrected post haste as it paints me in a light that could rise suspicion which is unduly warranted.
These posts bother me. You are vastly overreacting to what was obviously a poor choice of words (if you ignore the fact that stating your opinion can be described as claiming it). The only thing that has painted you badly from him choosing to use that word is your overreaction. FoS: Sepiriel
To be clear, i am not piggybacking on anothers opinion, i just couldn't form decent sentences to explain my reasoning. I maintain that Muffins unquestioning actions of voting point to him having the info of who he needs to vote on. If i give no reason for voting on anyone, i am scum. I am simply pointing out that Muffin gave a very short reason for voting on someone i see as town.
So, your reasons are the ones I posted (which wasn't much tbh) and the fact that he didn't provide a lot reasons for his suspicions? Noted.
I don't know what to make of this. Someone keeping tabs on who hasn't posted?
As Cantrip said, I cannot stand lurkers. (Yes, I know, I've been bad about it this game, but it's vacation related and will only last another week) but on top of that, as I said all over this forum, I've been super-excited to play with CC finally and now he's disappeared again. I hope he comes back!
You made mention that I slyly attempted to move the discussion from Random into serious, I never intended to be sly about it or to hide it in anyway, I actively tried to move the discussion to something more serious when i saw something i found interesting enough to discuss.
These posts bother me. You are vastly overreacting to what was obviously a poor choice of words (if you ignore the fact that stating your opinion can be described as claiming it). The only thing that has painted you badly from him choosing to use that word is your overreaction. FoS: Sepiriel
My statements are made under the work that to claim is to present something factual, whereas personal opinion is something that relies not always on fact but on the preconceptions and perceptions of a person and can, ad often will, be wrong. With that in mind when khorney misused the term claim (or at least misused in the sense of how i was approaching the term) I wanted to quickly correct this, its not an overreaction on my part just a wish to clear any future suspicions due to a misunderstand (either khorney's or mine) of the use of the term claim.
This is my first Mafia game, as well as the first game i have played with you so its understandable if you see my writing style as me overreacting when its me just being proactive about things and prevent long term misunderstandings, hopefully as the game progresses it will be easier to tell that this is just my standard posting pattern and not me overreacting.
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Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background.
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That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange eons even death may die.
These posts bother me. You are vastly overreacting to what was obviously a poor choice of words (if you ignore the fact that stating your opinion can be described as claiming it). The only thing that has painted you badly from him choosing to use that word is your overreaction. FoS: Sepiriel
As Cantrip said, I cannot stand lurkers. (Yes, I know, I've been bad about it this game, but it's vacation related and will only last another week) but on top of that, as I said all over this forum, I've been super-excited to play with CC finally and now he's disappeared again. I hope he comes back!
What exactly are you wanting here?
points addressed as per paragraph:
I agree with you there, but I am not sure what to make of it. (Ps: I knew it meant something like opinion, or tvrditi in croatian )
I understand...just trying to go over everything...you never know when there is something suspicious.
I highlighted some areas in my analysis which I was unsure of how to deal with/analyse. I was hoping of getting a second opinion...Do you think I am on the right track with this? What's your view.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
Why the sudden change of heart?
It seems to me as if you don't really care where your vote is, as long as it's on a townie. Meaning I think you're scum and you are definitely my top choice for that.
Because I didn't see that he was new, and that explains everything to me.
@OMJ wagon: Not sold yet, need to reread tonight.
On review of this thread, and the whole Doom Lich deal, it appears the whole thing just started as a joke and DL just got pissed. Still interesting, but it appears to be less scummy on second look.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
Well, I mean his actions appear to be the characteristics of a nooby town player. They are slightly scummy, but if you take into account that he's new, a good amount of that goes away. In order of your points against OMJ....
1) He provides little reasoning for votes...Okay, that's nbd.
2) Joke vote is joke.
3) There's literally nothing there. He's just guessing. Thinking from a scum point of view? Eh. To catch a criminal, you've got to think like one. No?
4) Dumb questions warrant dumb responses. There is stuff there, you're just seeing what you want to.
5) That's not scummy; It's good analytics.
6 + 7) Again, he's kinda new. Dumb reasoning/lack of reason is to be expected, thought some explanation would be nice.
@the rest of the responses: He makes excuses to defend himself: town gets indignant when other town accuses. Granted, some of his defenses are kind of bad.
Also, I'm not seeing where he attacks/suspects Jobie, like you and he both mention. Quote pl0x?
I'm still not sure on OMJ; it could either be scum or just the fact that this is his first game. His eagerness to jump on the DL wagon without much reasoning is kind of suspect in my book, but I don't feel there's enough to warrant a D1 lynch.
This seems like a poor attempt to cover your implosion. Whether or not these were your original plans it seems a but suspect.
DL. The way you also so suddenly placed your vote on Jobie with out giving any reason besides "I have my reasons" and then taking it off right after he says how experienced he is and what he's done that has riled up the Town. (and that it is possible to see where he is getting the idea that Sepiriel was trying to get us out of the random stage.)
Idk.. it almost seems that you BOTH are scummish because of DLs actions.
I do find DL to be more Scummy than Jobie but it is because of DL's actions and the length between the last three posts (unless someone snuck a post in haha) that give me reason to suspect you both. Igmeoy.
No vote as of right now though..
Did I just read this correctly?
If you have not played any games on here before, how would you know for sure there are 3 scum in this game?
I'd like an answer to this, but for now Vote: DL
Should have caught that..
/Vote DL
My suspicions feel more clear than ever which means still not very clear at all lol
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
Would you mind sharing these reasons? it doesn't seem sound to vote without saying anything substantial. What reasons were there to unvote cantrip, what has occured? Could you add some quotes? You have made several posts, with no substance or value whatsoever. You end with a general comment about testing people under pressure...it almost appears you're trying to disguise your play so far as a gambit to expose a scum?
You agree with Cantrip on something, but then decide to vote on someone entirely different, giving little reason other than "weak wagon" and bigger fish to fry (I assume this means more important matters)? Could you expand on this? Are you saying you have more evidence against this "bigger fish" than what Cantrip has presented? To some extent I agree it was a weak case, especially given we are 7 pages in and DL was already at L-3, and our only reads were from his slip ups. My view of the case is to continue questioning DL. Currently I think he might be town (as I know I've done similar things in my first game).
You also mention Sepiriel trying to move us off the random stage so far, but then make no accusation or anything else. You don't even point out the implications of this? If they were taking us off the random stage, what does this mean to you? Are they town, wishing to scum hunt or scum wishing to progress a lynch? You make a simple observation and pin no weight to it. Are you just trying to promote discussion?
Wishy Washy voting here...No reason either. Seems a bit suspicious, although he is attempting to start scum hunting. I approve of that.
You place an accusation on DL, giving some valid reasons but then bundle the same accusation on Jobie without giving any reasons...What was the thinking behind this? It almost seems like you're supporting one wagon while attempting to create another, by linking the two players together, in some form of mutual bond. Would you mind giving reasons for this, and reasons for suspecting Jobie? It seems to me you're trying to implicate others while remaining neutral, especially with contrasting the accusations on two players with the "no vote"...Why include the "no vote", why not leave it as just discussion?
This is a good point. Either he knows, has played before, read it somewhere or might be a genuine scum slip up. I would like DL to address this point.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
By: Krackshott of Kracked Graphics
He then claims to be experienced and has done a lot of stirring up of towns after DL votes him (not denying this...) and suddenly DL takes his vote off of him after before saying he has his reasons without further explaining.
Again i just have suspicions towards him that arent really fully justifiable. But i do believe my feelings towards DL are.
And I said no vote because i was unsure of who i wanted to vote for (though i quickly decided) and didnt want to vote off DL without thinking about Jobie. Not very smart i guess but w.e, I voted shortly after.
Without a doubt? that seems like a very firm decision? What if he is just a n00b scum making poor decisions and poor jokes? I think your argument flips either way.
Does DL know what a claim is? I think it would be beneficial for you, or another exp. member to explain to him what it is, and for the rest of the town to keep him at L-2 until he can claim.
Do you think he could have gotten that information from another game? or from online? You say it feels more clear, but then not very clear, so you're self doubting, or maybe trying to cover up the vote so you can rely on it later in your defense? Why do you vote if you don't believe he is genuinely scum?
I don't see how him wanting to quit feels more scummy than a town? Maybe he is frustrated no one believes him (like someone mentioned). Could you please elaborate.
You're outright claiming he had a scum-esque explosion, but do not give enough supporting evidence. What was your goal in getting other people to share their ideas? Was it to solidify a case or?
I think the evidence at this point is very weak, and most tells could be caused by other things (noobiness). The other evidence is easily found online (like him knowing th number of players) or could have been an estimate on his part. While DL seems noob-town, I think this case against him is excellent, as with the pressure on someone else, scum seem more likely to slip up, and I have caught a few slip ups above.
Cantrip (I think it was you), I am still awaiting your reply on your miss quote. Please refer to my previous post, as this matter interests me.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
By: Krackshott of Kracked Graphics
I think you are mixing two separate things together. Jobie (and Manders, and some others) agree DL seems to be a town with a noob-explosion, which is likely to happen in basic games, which are designed for noobs.
You co-relate this to DL voting for jobie and then unvoting, despite it being two separate events. If DL is a noob-townie as jobie says, wouldn't it make sense he would change his vote a lot as he finds different things? He might have jumped the gun and voted, then re-read something. I would think this supports DL's case even more, while placing nothing directly on Jobie.
I think voting patterns don't represent the same tells as the voting reasons, and currently, you and DL both have very poor reasoning.
Finally, your logic is a little faulty. If you weren't sure who to vote on, why not make two separate cases against both, and let us discuss. I think the "no vote" just seems a little sus, like you're fence sitting. I might be seeing mountains where there are mice but, so I will let others give their insight too.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
By: Krackshott of Kracked Graphics
/vote The Muffin Man
For much the same reason as Manders Hex. I'm just too tired to form real sentencs at this hour.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
I think IM making mice out of mountain and because im very quickly putting the posts and ideas together it all is relevant to my mood at the time (which is volatile when im in a basketball tournament lol)
I probably should be taking more time and not posting every time i think something and think it through but im not very wise
and its also my first time so im learning haha
I may think something seems scum when it is actually a Town tendency.. Idk yet tho, still gotta play more
Then why vote now? Why not wait and review the evidence later, or tomorrow, instead of barning?
Like what, for example?
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
By: Krackshott of Kracked Graphics
So the game where we are all serious and completely leech the fun out of it all suddenly because serious? like really? because the only thing to happen since then is two or thre players making mention of you perhaps being n00b town with self-destructive tendencies (a case that can be easily turned around by saying you are n00b scum that doesnt handle pressure well btw)
Flip-flopping noted, you are now officially in my scum list
Like, WHAT THE HELL DOOD? can you be any more scum?
I get the effectiveness, this little statement just sealed your scum case (at least for me) and i will explain it so further below.
Dont like this at all, seems like jobie is coaching DL here by giving him all the examples to justify DL's claim rather than saying "Oh, I definitely do, have done several similar things myself in the past. This along with your reaction under pressure are why I don't believe you're scum."
IGMEOY Jobie
It is not a stretch at all, i admit it fully and with no shame or hiding intent that i tried to start a serious shift into the thread, i also noted the strong way in which i was doing so could be misconstrued as scummish which im not and therefore lowered down the gear and maintained a steady but constant serious tone instead of inquisition (until the DL case formed)
So.... "hey guys im suspecting Jobie but never mind it was just a brain fart because he
coached me so well... err i mean is such a swell guy for not voting me" god you just keep digging don't'cha?This would actually help, first helpful town thing you have said!
I actually made mention on this on my prior post, the fact he made the such a blatant slip up only helps to fix him in my scum list, now i did my research as well so i know the chances of there being 3 scum in this game are possible, however i would have never claimed the maximum amount of scums but rather gone with a 2-3 mention, while that gives the suspicion i know about this game its easier to explain as it being the result of research than of it being the result of insider information.
DL if i recall correctly in the Game request thread made mention he has played before, now as to what format he has played i cannot say, and this helps me solidify the case against him, he isn't inexperience (to the game itself, perhaps to the ability to be held accountable of slip ups that forum based games allow) and as such the implosion is much more likely a result of just being a bad scum player (the post in question has been removed now which is why i cannot confirm, do correct me if im wrong)
I'm 95% sure he stated earlier that he has played RL games, but this is his first foray into online/forum mafia.
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
Found the actual quote.
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
Thank you Jobie for the quote. So Doom Lich may be new to the accountability of Forum Based Games, while that mitigates the claims slightly it still tells us he has had experience in the game and shouldn't have fallen for such a n00b mistake, and is more likely the result of him just not being able to handle scum pressure well.
Now as has been noted Doom Lich is at L-2 so once he gets online I believe a claim is in order.
Finally regarding TMM while i have no clue whether he is scum or town I did a little reading in some of his other games and he is acting pretty similarly to games where he has been linked to being n00b Town (the Clan Contest for instance), I am thereby considering TMM as Possibly Town.
In contrast if Arcadic fails to become more active and explain his reasons behind his/her reasons for voting TMM further than a "/barn MH" i will be adding him to my Possibly Scum list together with Jobie (DL is right now part of my assured scum list, and have yet to see him even try to address me and counter my points, he has so far been very general in his replies as if scared of dealing in a one on one discussion due to fear of further slip ups, also because it would mean that Jobie, if he truly is his scum buddy, wouldn't be able to coach/help him like last time without drawing undue suspicion)
It still seems very suspicious, as he wouldn't have played in a similar set up, as I think most RL games use less players.
Firstly, I believe real life games a very different from online games, and as such, i don't think this claim is very powerful. I think, for the record of this game, he should be assumed to have played no online games (due to their different nature), and be considered a noob. What do you think about this?
Are you claiming TMM is town, based on meta/previous games? Could you please provide some links? I don't really have much on TMM so I would be interested.
Finally, I would like more explanation on several points. Are you basing your claim on Arcadic purely on him barning with MH? This seems like a very weak reason, tbh. You explained that Jobie was suspicious for coaching, but then again, this is a n00b game, and I would imagine coaching occurs (I believe someone accused me of doing it?). People want to help new comers to learn the game, so some level of tuition is required. As such, I also consider this a weak reason. Overall, more time and posts have to be made before a solid case appears.
I would like a reply from Jobie and Arcadic, replying to these claims and giving us an insight into their version of the story.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
By: Krackshott of Kracked Graphics
unvote: Doom Lich I'm not up for such a quick wagon, and I don't think that his implosion is scummy. I don't want a claim as I rather suspect this isn't going to end in a lynch and will just give the mafia more info.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
It seems I ignored this point previously. What I was trying to point out to everyone else was that I've done similar things in the past and done them as town. I don't see the problem in giving examples of things I've done in the past as opposed to saying I'm done similar things. It just means I lacked conciseness with my writing rather than anything suspicious.
Basically, I said I like tomatoes, spinach, carrots and squash as opposed to saying I like vegetables. Being vague, as you appeared to be accusing me of not doing, can cause complications.
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
Unvote I'm clearing my random vote, since we're well into the serious side.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
By: Krackshott of Kracked Graphics
apologies for not producing links my internet is being rather jumpy at the moment (took me a good 5 minutes to get this two quotes to show up), I also have my wife nagging at me for hogging the Desktop and have to rush my post slightly, I will however say to check the CCMIV thread where TMM has, at least in my views displayed N00b town attitude, and also to check one of his other games (I believe it was either the Shrek or Angel), his attitude has remained the same throughout those games and its the same type of feeling i am having this game.
This however is just my personal opinion, I am not claiming him to be Town, just that if you where to ask me I would say he is acting in a manner similar to what i have seen him do as a player considered to be town.
I will cut the following part to address with your points as they arise.
I am making no claim,I have said that in my opinion if Arcadic does not address his sudden appearance plus TMM vote with something more substantial than a "Well MH said it /barn" then that coupled with his lurking will be enough to make me consider him as possible scum, this does not mean I am calling him out as scum, only that if you are to ask my personal opinion, i would hold reservations against him due to this two points mentioned, whether this is a strong or weak reason matters little since its, again, just my own personal opinion and not a claim.
I will have to ask you at this point to be more careful with your wording, two times now you have accused me of making claims, when im just stating opinions, I hope this was an honest mistake on your part and not an attempt at misrepresenting me.
yes this is a game for beginners and as such mistakes are bound to be explained, however that does not mean scum cannot be found this way, is this likely to also accuse innocent towns? yes very likely, however that alone does not mean that scum cannot be caught in an attempt at coaching
I would also like an answer about this, the more input the better, if anything I will be shown im wrong and i will apologize and move on to whoever shows signs of being scum.
I understand however like I mentioned before it could also be an attempt at a scum trying to coach another newbie scum, if indeed this turns out to be false and im shown to be wrong then i will apologize, i hope you do not resent me that im going after scum, however misguided my methods or reasoning
Now i must log off, wife just threatened to making me sleep in the couch for a week if i dont let her use the Desktop.
Okay. Elaboration.
DL self votes as a joke, a sign that he doesn't take the game too seriously, which I understand. He then acts like scum and gets incredibly defensive when others vote for him. Eventually he explodes, possible under the stress of being scum. It could either be that he's new at this or he's scum, but I feel the second.
I had no goal. I was just curious as to what other people thought of DL, whether they thought he was being scummy or just sorta nooby.
Seeing that he is, in fact, new to the game, I will go ahead and Unvote. I hadn't seen the original post by DL saying this was his first online game.
Quotes in blog.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
It was as simple as me misunderstanding a noob town implosion.
Quotes in blog.
I don't know what to make of this. Someone keeping tabs on who hasn't posted?
Although, I would love to hear from CropCircles.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
By: Krackshott of Kracked Graphics
Each of my paragraphs replies to the corresponding one of your paragraphs:
I assume in paragraph the first, you mean he is not a n00b. Could you give examples of this gambit? If you refer to he /quit, /unquit, then I think it has more to do with the noob implosion. What do other members think of this matter, does real life mafia count as much? I think the complexity of this game outweighs real life.
I think meta/other game calls are poor ones to make, especially this early on.
"Put money in your purse". Why do you mention it's your opinion...3 times in the sentence? Are you trying to make a back up in case you become implicated some how?
Ah, sorry for this...English isn't my first language, and I have always thought claim means...well claim...to state an opinion?
Due to limited experience I don't know the implications of coaching, so I offer no substantial comment yet.
@Arcadic:
You offer an "arsed half (or however you say it)" explanation about not being able to write decent sentences? I don't get this. If you can't even express your reasoning and rely on others, what benefit are you then?
Then you continue on, after offering little explanation to try and put pressure on TMM, or so I assume. You back this up with a weak reason, saying that "if I give no reason for voting on anyone, I am scum", but then contrast this with pointing out TMM actually gave a reason, no matter how short it was. Why not question him about the reason? This just seems a little weird to me, trying to put all the blame/pressure on TMM.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
By: Krackshott of Kracked Graphics
This line of text points to TMM as scum and DL as town. Only a scum would be that quick to jump on a person for what was a pretty obvious ploy to exploit the more experienced forum mafia gamers and make them start posting to get us into the real stages of the game and not the random. You'll also note that this is my first game of mafia through the forum medium, having played it extensivly through college as a party game/D&D warmup/Acting Class excersize. I've seen DL's tactics used before, and they are never terribly effective, but it seems to always root out a good suspect.
For now my vote stands, and FOS to anyone who voted DL right after /quit. so Sepiriel, oldmajenkins, Rubin8o, FOS U
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
I am not a big defender of meta however i have seen other users in other games use it regularly to defend positions, again like i have mentioned before this is only my personal opinion.
Because i want to make sure that it is irrevocably clear that what im saying is a matter of personal opinion and not a statement of fact.
as per Dictionary.com:
So yeah I am stating personal opinion, not stating fact, your use of the word claim make it sound like i am stating fact when the only thing i am doing is presenting my personal opinion, a slight misrepresentation and one that I would like corrected post haste as it paints me in a light that could rise suspicion which is unduly warranted.
I am also gonna /barn with you in regards to your response to Arcadic, his actions and statements so far are making me suspicious of him.
Do note he was asking everyone not in the wagon their reasons for doubting the wagon, that is a very sensible town question, also do consider the thread had already been in serious discussion by the time this "ploy" had started, we where (and still are) asking clarification from DL to which he reacted by imploding and having a whine break about the seriousness of it all and the unfun members of this game
See now this is a scum tell to me, he claims to have caught up with the thread but is too tired to post decent replies and then wrongly casts a FoS on me since i had already casted my vote prior to the whole /quit "ploy" something he would have been well aware had he actually been paying attention to the thread.
So congrats Arcadic you have upgraded from an IGMEOY to a full fledged FoS.
FoS Arcadic
They have 48 hours to respond by posting in this thread.
Votecount
Doom Lich (3) - Sepiriel, _航_ (Wataru), oldmajenkins
The Muffin Man (2) - MandersHex, Arcadic
khorney06 (1) - CropCircles
oldmajenkins (1) - Cantripmancer
With 12 Players alive, it’s 7 Players to Lynch.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
I find it hard to believe that he exploded and then rage quit to get players' attention. You remind me of one of those English teachers that put more thought into literature than even the author did.
Quotes in blog.
"You see, the flowers he gives his deaf half-sister are purple to signify that he his purple on the inside. But he leaves the stems green because he is green with envy that she will feel the sweet embrace of death. On Wendsday, we'll talk about the 4th sentence in this 500 page story." I hate this too. However, you defense of him just further make me suspicious of you. It may be you are both scum and DL's "implosion" was purposeful to get us out of the /random. After all, you can hardly ever infer tone through text. IGMEOY Doom Lich
Sepiriel, after looking at why i thought you voted after the implosion, i see why i mis-placed my mistrust in you. I had each page of the thread open in a different firefox tab and switched the pages around when reading. My FOS was misplaced. I am /endfos Sepiriel for now.
[/quote=Sepiriel] Do note he was asking everyone not in the wagon their reasons for doubting the wagon, that is a very sensible town question, also do consider the thread had already been in serious discussion by the time this "ploy" had started, we where (and still are) asking clarification from DL to which he reacted by imploding and having a whine break about the seriousness of it all and the unfun members of this game[/quote]
If it is a typical town move, i my inexperience in the forum media would not tell me so.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
In case it's needed again: Unvote Wataru, Vote: Oldmajenkins
It seems like this kind of thing happens in every basic I play in. Granted, usually they replace out, but it's not uncommon.
See, without this kind of "I was messing with you" response, I was ok with your explosion. Never having played real life Mafia, I figured that day 1 of live games was likely closer to the "russian roulette" that you mentioned before, and that maybe your issues were stemming from the differences therein. But this (and the bad vote/unvote of Jobie) seem like you know more than you're letting on, which paints your explosion poorly.
This solidifies my vote on Oldmajenkins. You've managed to paint DL AND the player he accused as scumbuddies, expressed suspicions of both, but not voted either.
I wasn't real fond of Wataru's attack on DL for knowing that there are 3 scum in the game (which is a reasonable assumption for a person to make from the mafia articles), but you jumping on the wagon for it is even worse.
Jobie's assumption was understandable to me. Your reaction and thoroughness of scrutiny make me feel that you are town.
This is a reasonable thought. Since no one else has addressed this (and DL hasn't posted since), I will.
In online mafia, it's traditional to "claim" once you are two votes from being lynched (referred to as "L-2"). Since the lynch threshold is 7, and you (DL) are/were at 5 votes, you were at L-2 and would normally have claimed, which entails paraphrasing certain information from the role message the mod sent you at the start of the game (NOT quoting, but paraphrasing in your own words). This info includes your name (if you were given a role name by the mod), alignment (townies say "town", scum (generally) lie and say "town"), any abilities you have (cop, doctor, (again, scum usually lie, as their abilities aren't pro-town)), and any flavor you were given to help back up this information. Sometimes it's beneficial for a townie who is forced to the point of claiming to lie in their claim, but it's rare and considered bad unless you really know what you're doing.
However, you have since been brought back to L-3 (from Rubin unvoting, I believe), so you shouldn't claim when you return unless you are put back to L-2.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I reread your previous post and can only ??? at your question.
That last sounds like scum leaving himself an out.
Yup, it definitely sounds like an out.
This has that "Paaaaay no attention to the muffin behind the curtain" sound to it.
It's fairly common. I can vouch for MH: She (and I) hates the lurk.
Replace "to make yourself appear more townish" with "to win the game" and you've got it right. A gambit usually involves higher risk than other tactics and sometimes involves lying/omitting truths to achieve ends that you aren't positive about.
I agree with the first point, but given the amount of jumping around etc. I think a lot of people fall in that category, eg: most of the people on the DL wagon. I still think we need lots more replies to make a discovery with conclusiveness.
It is my mistake, I missread one of your replies (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=5561172#post5561172 , and furtherone) and didn't realise you already explained it.
For the next two; I have seen it happen a lot in this game. Lots of people seem willing to accuse others, but no one seems willing to back it.
Ok...But MH (I assume you mean mandershex?) hasn't posted a lot tbh. I just thought of bringing it up, because in the last game I was in (basic24) someone used the idea of encouraging others to post as evidence in a case. I suppose it's not very strong, if at all valid.
Ok:
FoS OMJ
Give me a minute and I will construct my case below.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
By: Krackshott of Kracked Graphics
I don't think I can even start in explaining how scummy this looks. So he's saying that his vote on Manders is a (joke post), but then goes on to but suspicion on her and Sepiriel at the same time! THEN goes on to contradict what he just said, saying that he does not, in fact, hold much suspicion on them. It seems to me he's trying to put pressure/blame on others very early on...This is his first or second post, too.
Votes DL, gives no reasoning and then says igmeoy. It should be noted that scum, voting for scum early on, is an easy to stop tactic, especially with no justification on the vote [reference: mafiascum wiki]. Even if it wasn't true, the fact that he doesn't justify it seems weird.
He claims he doesn't know much about tells, given it's his first game. This could be true, but the rest of the post seems like he is taking the persona of the scum, or placing himself in the scums shoes. I do not know why he would do this, as his point (about protecting) could be made much better and clearer. Instead he talks about what the scum would do, which very much "pings my scumdar". Then he closes with igmeoy "very mildly", again, no substance or support for his claims. He makes claims then backs off and waits for someone else to pick them up and support them. He never feels strong about his, and always leaves ways to back out later if needed.
This is in response to me questioning him about the post on top (reference: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=5562693&postcount=81). He gives a poor reason to, saying he is pessimistic, which I don't see how that explains anything. The point is, he is speculating what the scum will do, and is even going into their roles to try and determine, with little success. Then again, he says he is tired, creating ANOTHER way to escape!
Another point...so far, all his posts have had NO CONTENT. They have words, but nothing of value in them! Nothing we can use to further our understanding of the situation.
I can not even begin to point out what's scummy here. But I will try...just for lovely people :p. So, first sentence, he points the finger at DL, reasonable, giving a reason. He then realises he actually might have to scumhunt to appear town, so starts trying. He points the finger at DL again, giving some adequate reasons (I suppose). Then he puts the blame on Jobie, but makes sure he puts the "idk [I don't know]" and the "almost seems" to make sure he can back out. But then, he places actual blame on both of them, with no evidence on jobie, referencing three posts he did not even use to create his accusation. However, despite pointing at two people and calling them scummy, he decides not to vote. Could this be a means to get the discussion off him and onto someone else? I would like more input on this...Cantrip?
Again, leaving a place to back out of in case it fails, and not giving reasons. Why do I feel I am repeating myself?
No reason again.
Tries to make an excuse for no justification, saying that DL feels more scummy. However, if I recall you tentatively (seems) called them both scum! Then you say "no reason to worry about him". Are you trying to cover a buddy or what? Are you trying to concentrate the pressure on DL first? he leaves another opening to get out of the Jobie case (not fully justified) but at this point DL is L-2, so a lynch seems imminent, so he remains on that case. Then he says he didn't know which one to vote for (but before he says he suspects DL more?). All these posts are riddled with contradictions!
Gives yet more excuses to back out. Apparently his posts correspond to his mood and as such, might not be clear. At least that's what he wants us to think. Then he says he should take more time to construct his posts...another way out (or even more time to word his posts so he doesn't appear scummy :P, take your pick). He then tries to dig himself out with "something seems scum when it is actually town". So essentially, he's playing the discreet noob card? What do you all think? I call this a back up option. He is hinting at it, but doesn't want to play it straight away (i.e saying he doesn't know how to react/what's going on), leaving it for another time when the pressure is greater.
Finally, we end our read with yet ANOTHER excuse.
So in conclusion:
Vote: OMJ
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
By: Krackshott of Kracked Graphics
It seems to me that you're chasing someone who's just not that good at playing mafia. There's as little reason for scum to be indecisive and flip-flop as town.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
Could you please provide some counter evidence? You say I am chasing down a poor mafia player? Please expand on this.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
By: Krackshott of Kracked Graphics
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
By: Krackshott of Kracked Graphics
Fair enough on this, but you go forward to post this:
followed by
Why the sudden change of heart?
It seems to me as if you don't really care where your vote is, as long as it's on a townie. Meaning I think you're scum and you are definitely my top choice for that.
Nope, just means I'm feeling TMM has more likely scum than omj.
Generally, scum want to end the RVS because (a) it doesn't provide any relevant information for them and (b) quite often, scum will make a slip in the RVS that will end in their demise.
Ok...what exactly was the point of saying this?
These posts bother me. You are vastly overreacting to what was obviously a poor choice of words (if you ignore the fact that stating your opinion can be described as claiming it). The only thing that has painted you badly from him choosing to use that word is your overreaction. FoS: Sepiriel
So, your reasons are the ones I posted (which wasn't much tbh) and the fact that he didn't provide a lot reasons for his suspicions? Noted.
As Cantrip said, I cannot stand lurkers. (Yes, I know, I've been bad about it this game, but it's vacation related and will only last another week) but on top of that, as I said all over this forum, I've been super-excited to play with CC finally and now he's disappeared again. I hope he comes back!
What exactly are you wanting here?
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
My statements are made under the work that to claim is to present something factual, whereas personal opinion is something that relies not always on fact but on the preconceptions and perceptions of a person and can, ad often will, be wrong. With that in mind when khorney misused the term claim (or at least misused in the sense of how i was approaching the term) I wanted to quickly correct this, its not an overreaction on my part just a wish to clear any future suspicions due to a misunderstand (either khorney's or mine) of the use of the term claim.
This is my first Mafia game, as well as the first game i have played with you so its understandable if you see my writing style as me overreacting when its me just being proactive about things and prevent long term misunderstandings, hopefully as the game progresses it will be easier to tell that this is just my standard posting pattern and not me overreacting.
points addressed as per paragraph:
I agree with you there, but I am not sure what to make of it. (Ps: I knew it meant something like opinion, or tvrditi in croatian )
I understand...just trying to go over everything...you never know when there is something suspicious.
I highlighted some areas in my analysis which I was unsure of how to deal with/analyse. I was hoping of getting a second opinion...Do you think I am on the right track with this? What's your view.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
By: Krackshott of Kracked Graphics
Because I didn't see that he was new, and that explains everything to me.
@OMJ wagon: Not sold yet, need to reread tonight.
Quotes in blog.
@OMJ: He's got noob town written all over him.
Quotes in blog.
Games:
Basic 26: Alive : Won
Basic 24: Dead : Lost
Southpark mafia: Dead : draw?
Basic 28: Dead :
Basic 30: Alive :
Annorax's Not-very-Bastard Mod Mafia: Alive
By: Krackshott of Kracked Graphics
1) He provides little reasoning for votes...Okay, that's nbd.
2) Joke vote is joke.
3) There's literally nothing there. He's just guessing. Thinking from a scum point of view? Eh. To catch a criminal, you've got to think like one. No?
4) Dumb questions warrant dumb responses. There is stuff there, you're just seeing what you want to.
5) That's not scummy; It's good analytics.
6 + 7) Again, he's kinda new. Dumb reasoning/lack of reason is to be expected, thought some explanation would be nice.
@the rest of the responses: He makes excuses to defend himself: town gets indignant when other town accuses. Granted, some of his defenses are kind of bad.
Also, I'm not seeing where he attacks/suspects Jobie, like you and he both mention. Quote pl0x?
I'm still not sure on OMJ; it could either be scum or just the fact that this is his first game. His eagerness to jump on the DL wagon without much reasoning is kind of suspect in my book, but I don't feel there's enough to warrant a D1 lynch.
Quotes in blog.