Saw it at the bottom of the index. Also guys I think we should remember that there are 3 scums in this game. So there is a chance that Talore iPot and zajnet are all scum
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
Saw it at the bottom of the index. Also guys I think we should remember that there are 3 scums in this game. So there is a chance that Talore iPot and zajnet are all scum
How dare you steal my thunder?! You know that's my thing!
Happy Birthday, VibeBox!!!
Anyway, yes, there are 3 scum, and I'll hopefully be able to post my reasoning on Zajnet today. Apologies for leaving you hanging, guys.
Anyway, yes, there are 3 scum, and I'll hopefully be able to post my reasoning on Zajnet today. Apologies for leaving you hanging, guys.
Very much looking forward to reading this. I have the strong gut feeling that Zaj is getting bused. The mistakes just don't seem to add up to scum in my mind. The problem is that a lot of the people voting for him still aren't providing well thought-out reasoning which makes it very difficult for me to determine by whom. I'm going to analyze some of these posts tonight.
This makes me less annoyed with vezo in that he actually provided a reason for jumping on a wagon, however he did say earlier that it was the only wagon left he hadn't jumped on besides Talore's but w/e. I don't 100% agree with the logic, but I see what you're getting at.
Seeing as I'm at L-2, I guess I'd better claim. I hate having to D1 claim, especially as it might help the scum (although it might help the town too) because finally people will know what kind of roles to expect (besides their own of course).
I am the Jester (not the role, I lol'd pretty hard when I saw rule #10 and my role PM). I symbolize 60's folk singer Bob Dylan. This folk style "came from you and me," and my ability to annoy possible critics gives me the role of: Town Roleblocker
Hmm... town roleblocker...
Most basic games here have had a roleblocker of some sort, and most of the time they're scum. There's a few exceptions (Ecophagy's games come to mind), but due to there not being many suitable scum roles for a basic and how scum roleblockers tend to make the game more balanced, scum typically have some sort of roleblock ability in basics. That doesn't mean that we should just assume that roleblocker=scum though.
"Annoying critics" as flavor for a roleblock feels a bit off, but roleblocker seems like an odd false claim as scum.
Roleblocker is on the town list, but not the anti-town list.
I don't really see this as quite as bad as people are making it out to be.
If he were a scum roleblocker two times in a row, I don't see him trying to pass roleblocker off as a town role. He knows there are some experienced people in this game. If he were a scum roleblocker once and then a town roleblocker, it's plausible that he could've missed the short basic mafia roles section (and thought that the "anti town" section was for mafia roles) and noticed that "roleblocker" was under town roles. It doesn't quite line up with him knowing the wiki as well as he says he does, but I guess I could believe that he just missed that section or something.
My reading was that the narrator of the song believed that music was "pure" before the rise of folk and more modern rock styles.
Dylan is referred to a a Jester, fairly derogatory, and said to have "stolen the crown" from Elvis.
So, within the context of the song I don't see Dylan portrayed in a very positive light, and a likely candidate to be a "corrupter".
This may qualify as "gaming the mod", so I'll try not to let it weigh to heavily on my opinion of Zaj.
Personally, my role pm flavor puts the 60s and the progression of rock in pretty good light.
Quote from IceMan »
Very much looking forward to reading this. I have the strong gut feeling that Zaj is getting bused. The mistakes just don't seem to add up to scum in my mind. The problem is that a lot of the people voting for him still aren't providing well thought-out reasoning which makes it very difficult for me to determine by whom. I'm going to analyze some of these posts tonight.
Typically, "busing" is when scum wagon their scum buddies to get town cred. I think you just mean that he's being wagoned by scum, Unless I misread you earlier and you think Zaj is scum.
~
Unvote for now. I'm inclined to leave Zaj alone for today.
I need to look over this game again, but I won't be able to do it until tomorrow night unfortunately.
Typically, "busing" is when scum wagon their scum buddies to get town cred. I think you just mean that he's being wagoned by scum, Unless I misread you earlier and you think Zaj is scum.
Thanks for this - used the wrong term. Just to be clear, I do mean being wagoned by scum rather than bused.
I'm well aware of how scum roleblockers work, I just was one in #20. Saying the MafiaScum wiki is wrong about mafia is like saying the Bill of Rights is wrong about what rights we Americans have. It's the law of the land. Town roleblockers can block the NK if they target the scum that actually sends it in. The can also block the Mafia roleblocker which makes perfect sense. It's like countering a counterspell. It protects the town PR. Most basics here seem to follow the structure of 6 vanilla town, a doc, an investigator (cop or tracker or watcher), and a third minor power role (like me, the roleblocker). The mafia is usually 2 goons and a roleblocker, or a goon, a godfather, and a roleblocker, or 2 goons and a godfather.
I know I just said I said I was going to leave you alone for now, but one quick question:
With the last sentence, what made you think that godfathers were typical in a basic? I don't think a single basic game here has had a godfather, due to it requiring the mod to lie to players.
I know I just said I said I was going to leave you alone for now, but one quick question:
With the last sentence, what made you think that godfathers were typical in a basic? I don't think a single basic game here has had a godfather, due to it requiring the mod to lie to players.
The 12 person card game I have has a Godfather. I haven't played enough on this site to know exactly how its usually done, which is why I put down three options for the scum to be.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
[FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=DarkOrchid][FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=DarkOrchid][FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=DarkOrchid]Ok, Zajnet PBPA: DISCLAIMER: SOME MAY CONSIDER TL;DR (Personally, I hate that phrase as I'm of the mindset you should read everything)
So as for the soft-claim, I don't really care either way. I'm not worried about it hurting us, and I'm not worried about it helping scum too much.[/URL].
Preeeety much anything can be a role, if it's written well enough. I don't want to suppose what the roles might be here, but there are several objects in the song that could easily be roles. Don't overthink Mafia, whether scumhunting or attempting to game the mod.
I'm not in favor of it, I'm just not against it. I don't see any way that it could hurt us, but I don't really see that big of a way that it could help us.
More fence-sitting on the soft-claim.
There's always the chance that the roles are funky and even a soft claim would help the town or the scum significantly, for example if the doc can only protect "people" or the roleblocker can only roleblock nonpeople, etc. Since everything is so unknown at this point, we might want to hold out until D2, when we have the info from the lynch and NK, namely role information.
Now, on this, one could argue that he's hinting at his own "funky role" thus making the claim true, but one could also argue that he could have implemented it purposefully for that reason, so it's WIFOM.
Meh, my personal take on this is that Kenneth is just confused noob, just like in #20. He's playing the same vague style as in that game.
@Kennethwong: Please don't say that you reread something if you only "kinda skimmed." Not only is it annoying, but it's a distraction to the real scum hunting that we need to get done around here.
While I don't agree with his voting for Kenneth that quickly for an obvious noobish verbal mistake (FoS: VibeBox), I see his point about the ambulance thing. In human psychology, everyone thinks that "someone" else will take care of it. You have to single out people for it to work. I for one don't see anything wrong with his tactic. He already had "called the ambulance himself" by providing his opinion and vote on Kennth.
I've already said the FoS seems forced on this post.
Btw, I didn't come to Kenneth's defense for any reason than that he's playing nearly identical to the way he did in #20 (I can't really talk in-depth about it, but you can read for yourself that he's claimed town power with no counterclaim there).
Just from what you've said here, you yourself don't KNOW that he's town in the other game, so it bothers me that you would defend him at all. That's not your job, anyway.
This makes me less annoyed with vezo in that he actually provided a reason for jumping on a wagon, however he did say earlier that it was the only wagon left he hadn't jumped on besides Talore's but w/e. I don't 100% agree with the logic, but I see what you're getting at.
Seeing as I'm at L-2, I guess I'd better claim. I hate having to D1 claim, especially as it might help the scum (although it might help the town too) because finally people will know what kind of roles to expect (besides their own of course).
I am the [COLOR="Blue"]Jester[/COLOR] (not the role, I lol'd pretty hard when I saw rule #10 and my role PM). I symbolize 60's folk singer Bob Dylan. This folk style "came from you and me," and my ability to annoy possible critics gives me the role of: [COLOR="Blue"]Town Roleblocker[/COLOR]
Here we have his claim. Town RBer is a valid role, but very rare. I've seen it more and more recently, but still. Mafia RBer is much more common, and it's not a stretch to think that he decided to claim Town RBer to cover his bases.
EBWODP: Accidentally posted the last post without including an Unvote, Vote: Vezokpiraka.
PS:
Thanks for replacing the annoying font with horrible grammar. It's only slightly less hard to read.
I don't like how you keep attacking him, however weakly, for his grammar and such. It's obvious he lives in another country, so a little compassion is not too much to ask for. His posts are not illegible in the least.
Not that I'm saying I did look it up to see a safe false-claim, but I've read pretty much the entire MafiaScum wiki front-to-back before I started playing on this site. I wouldn't have needed to look it up because I know what are town roles and what are scum roles.
This first sentence reads to me as guilty conscience. Also, you obviously do not know which roles are town and which are scum since you said RBer wasn't on the anti-town list.
How the hell is Bob Dylan a corrupter? At the time the song was written, he was one of the most important people in the folk music movement, of which Don McLean was a part of. He was McLean's idol.
I'm well aware of how scum roleblockers work, I just was one in #20. Saying the MafiaScum wiki is wrong about mafia is like saying the Bill of Rights is wrong about what rights we Americans have. It's the law of the land. Town roleblockers can block the NK if they target the scum that actually sends it in. The can also block the Mafia roleblocker which makes perfect sense. It's like countering a counterspell. It protects the town PR. Most basics here seem to follow the structure of 6 vanilla town, a doc, an investigator (cop or tracker or watcher), and a third minor power role (like me, the roleblocker). The mafia is usually 2 goons and a roleblocker, or a goon, a godfather, and a roleblocker, or 2 goons and a godfather.
Here, you reveal that you were in fact a scum RBer in another game, thus contradicting pretty much everything you've said regarding your role since you claimed it.
This is America in the 60s. Since you're not American, I will enlighten you:
The 60s were a time of much distaste for the government. Folk music, antiwar protests, and weed use were considered the way of the people. The government and the war were considered "corrupters" of the people. This song was written about "the day the music died," which is February 3rd, 1959, the day that Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens, and The Big Bopper died in a plane crash. Many of the references in the song pertain to music in the 60s. The girl who sang the blues, and turned away is Janis Joplin who ODd in 1970. The King and Queen are Elvis and Connie Francis. The quartet in the park, and the marching band, are both the Beatles. Mick Jaggar is satan, The father, son, and holy ghost are probably the three men that died in February. Helter Skelter refers to Charles Manson. The list goes on and on. My character, the Jester, is Bob Dylan, who wore a red windbreaker similar to the one James Dean wore in Rebel without a Cause. The jester on the sidelines in a cast refers to Dylan's motorcylce wreck in 1966, which took him out of the scene for a while.
EBWODP: no, no, no, no, no. Don McLean idolized Bob Dylan and James Dean and the like more than he liked Elvis. The stole the crown from the king part meant that when Elvis went into the military in 1958, Bob Dylan took up the musical slack and kept the folk movement going, albeit in a slightly different direction than Elvis had it going. Don McLean preferred Dylan's direction.
On the first part: Yes its gaming the mod, but from what I've seen in zinda's posts and my flavor, I believe he will stay fairly true to the song and to the American legacy (even though he's not in America, lol).
more mod-gaming. It's irrelevant to me whether you had to look this information up or if you just knew it. The fact remains that you cannot possibly KNOW how Zindabad set up the game, so all this is pointless, to a point.
I wasn't trying to insinuate (although I see now how I did) that RB wasn't a scum, role, only that it was a town role. I legitimately thought that it wasn't on the MafiaScum list of normal roles as a scum role.
Question: why would you link something as evidence to your case without checking it first?
Assuming that at least 1 person clicks the link, because experienced, good players tend to do things like that (Kraj especially), then you're saying that they might not have noticed the discrepancy. How about that I might not have noticed the discrepancy? I'm human too, and sick today.
I am of the opinion that anyone posting a link as evidence of their innocence would actually make sure that the evidence they're providing actually proves their innocence.
Yeah, I'm taking 6 AP tests, and I spent all day yesterday at UT at the state level programming competition, where I won 1st place. I've been busy, and I'm hella tired. Pobody's nerfect. Where did I say that I glossed over it? I said that I missed that one word was on that page.
We all have stories of why we're so tired or unable to post more or whatnot, so meh on that.
However, do you know what glossed means? Because by missing "that one word", that is glossing over something.
I say this, not to be a *****, but to point out that it seems like you subtly tried to deflect onto Talore for putting words in your mouth.
Explain to me why you think its a scum tell that I missed something?
Do you really, really, think that I would blatantly lie about something so flippin' obvious. Is saying that the sky is green a scum tell?
You've said many times that you're not in your right mind, so yes, this is entirely possible.
I wasn't implying that I know that roleblocker isn't scum, because I obviously did know that roleblocker is scum, and I was the one to bring up that I was one in a previous game. I was saying that I wouldn't need to look up to know that roleblocker can be town, because I'm familiar with mafia roles. I legitimately thought that MafiaScum didn't list RB as a scum role. I figured that Zebi just used it as a scum role for that setup because he wanted to. Scum can have docs and cops, so why not a roleblocker?
It doesn't make sense because I'm tired, sick, and grouchy. Unlike Manders, I am often unable to make sense while sick. I'm done posting for the night. If I wake up tomorrow and I've been lynched, go town. Otherwise, I'll continue this waste of time with y'all until someone wants to start looking for the scum.
yeah, that's good for me. The contradictions themselves are enough for a vote, but I don't like how he tries to blame it all on being tired and/or sick.
[FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=DarkOrchid][FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=DarkOrchid][FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=DarkOrchid]Ok, Zajnet PBPA: DISCLAIMER: SOME MAY CONSIDER TL;DR (Personally, I hate that phrase as I'm of the mindset you should read everything)
Fence-sitting on the soft-claim
Speculation
[COLOR="Blue"]How is saying that anything could be a role speculation? Anything can be a role, period.[/COLOR]
More fence-sitting on the soft-claim.
[COLOR="Blue"]What's wrong with that?[/COLOR]
Now, on this, one could argue that he's hinting at his own "funky role" thus making the claim true, but one could also argue that he could have implemented it purposefully for that reason, so it's WIFOM.
[COLOR="Blue"]yay WIFOM[/COLOR]
Possible coaching of a buddy.
[COLOR="Blue"]
It's also possibly just me wanting him to actually read the text. I know I'm calling the kettle black on this one, but meh.[/COLOR]
I've already said the FoS seems forced on this post.
[COLOR="Blue"]I don't really get why that seems forced to you? (I like to use parentheticals to add tangential things that aren't linearly connected to my next sentence)[/COLOR]
This post always bothered me, too, because he's pointing out that people need to unvote their random votes, but didn't notice his own?
[COLOR="Blue"]Honest mistake.[/COLOR]
Just from what you've said here, you yourself don't KNOW that he's town in the other game, so it bothers me that you would defend him at all. That's not your job, anyway.
[COLOR="Blue"]I think he's town, and don't want him to get lynched. What should my job have been at that point? Putting pressure on someone I thought was town or lurking?[/COLOR]
Here we have his claim. Town RBer is a valid role, but very rare. I've seen it more and more recently, but still. Mafia RBer is much more common, and it's not a stretch to think that he decided to claim Town RBer to cover his bases.
[COLOR="Blue"]Mod gaming[/COLOR]
I don't like how you keep attacking him, however weakly, for his grammar and such. It's obvious he lives in another country, so a little compassion is not too much to ask for. His posts are not illegible in the least.
[COLOR="Blue"]
I wasn't attacking him at all, I didn't notice that he wasn't from America, and I'm a bit of a grammar nazi.[/COLOR]
Again, with the language issue.
[COLOR="Blue"]
This is where I noticed that he's from Romania, and became curious how long he's known English. If he's known it for all of his life, there's still no excuse for fail grammar, other than laziness [/grammarnazi][/COLOR]
I've already commented on this.
This first sentence reads to me as guilty conscience. Also, you obviously do not know which roles are town and which are scum since you said RBer wasn't on the anti-town list.
[COLOR="Blue"]To be fair, it's not on the anti-town list. I completely missed the list labeled "Mafia" in my quick re-glance at it before linking it.[/COLOR]
mod-gaming
Here, you reveal that you were in fact a scum RBer in another game, thus contradicting pretty much everything you've said regarding your role since you claimed it.
[COLOR="Blue"]How was I supposed to know if Town RB or Scum RB was the more common one?[/COLOR]
more mod-gaming. It's irrelevant to me whether you had to look this information up or if you just knew it. The fact remains that you cannot possibly KNOW how Zindabad set up the game, so all this is pointless, to a point.
[COLOR="Blue"]I'm simply providing flavor to the group.[/COLOR]
Question: why would you link something as evidence to your case without checking it first?
[COLOR="Blue"]
I did check it, I just missed it.[/COLOR]
I am of the opinion that anyone posting a link as evidence of their innocence would actually make sure that the evidence they're providing actually proves their innocence.
[COLOR="Blue"]Yeah, I really should have paid more attention, but we've already been over this.[/COLOR]
We all have stories of why we're so tired or unable to post more or whatnot, so meh on that.
However, do you know what glossed means? Because by missing "that one word", that is glossing over something.
I say this, not to be a *****, but to point out that it seems like you subtly tried to deflect onto Talore for putting words in your mouth.
[COLOR="Blue"]I wasn't trying to deflect onto Talore, I thought glossed-over meant something different.[/COLOR]
You've said many times that you're not in your right mind, so yes, this is entirely possible.
yeah, that's good for me. The contradictions themselves are enough for a vote, but I don't like how he tries to blame it all on being tired and/or sick.
Vote stands.[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT]
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
Sorry everyone, probably should have mentioned my Birthday and the wedding of my two friends was this weekend. I'll catch up and get a post in by tomorrow night.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"There is no royal road to science, and only those who do not dread the fatiguing climb
of its steep paths have a chance of gaining its luminous summits"
-Karl Heinrich Marx Cube
I wasn't really suspicious of zajnet but his defense against manderhex's post seems kinda weak so now i'm thinking differently. Looks like he made a lot of mistakes:
Honest mistake.
To be fair, it's not on the anti-town list. I completely missed the list labeled "Mafia" in my quick re-glance at it before linking it.
I did check it, I just missed it.
Yeah, I really should have paid more attention, but we've already been over this.
I wasn't really suspicious of zajnet but his defense against manderhex's post seems kinda weak so now i'm thinking differently. Looks like he made a lot of mistakes:
IIRC, all of those (or at least three of them) refer to the same mistake. I kept getting attacked for it so I had to keep saying what it was. A mistake. Gonna quote this post now and say I've made 5 mistakes?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
I wasn't really suspicious of zajnet but his defense against manderhex's post seems kinda weak so now i'm thinking differently. Looks like he made a lot of mistakes:
This post seems more like he is trying to say "look at all the mistakes he made!" without bothering to actually check what said "mistakes" were... IMO it looks like he skimmed through dudes posts and saw that he used the word "mistake" and "sorry" a few times and thought he could put some heat on him. Scum bussing scum perhaps?
How is saying that anything could be a role speculation? Anything can be a role, period.
I didn't attack you for speculating, merely stated it was speculation, which it is. It's speculating on what could be a role, even to say that anything could be.
Why so defensive?
What's wrong with that?
Fence-sitting is always frowned upon.
It's also possibly just me wanting him to actually read the text. I know I'm calling the kettle black on this one, but meh.
Possibly? You don't know the reasoning you had for saying that? o.O
I don't really get why that seems forced to you? (I like to use parentheticals to add tangential things that aren't linearly connected to my next sentence)
The parentheses are a point against you because I do not recall seeing you use them much before this post, and you've started using them since then, making it appear that this is the case. I'm not convinced.
Honest mistake.
Honest mistakes happen. I know this better than anyone. But so many? They're not all one mistake.
I think he's town, and don't want him to get lynched. What should my job have been at that point? Putting pressure on someone I thought was town or lurking?
You should state your stance on the situation and proceed to scumhunt elsewhere. You haven't done too much of that, iirc.
This is for everyone: Please don't answer questions that were not addresses to you. It could give scum an out on a situation we may have put them into with our question.
Mod gaming
It's more speculation and WIFOM, but still worth mentioning. It's not a prominent point, nevertheless.
I wasn't attacking him at all, I didn't notice that he wasn't from America, and I'm a bit of a grammar nazi.
This is where I noticed that he's from Romania, and became curious how long he's known English. If he's known it for all of his life, there's still no excuse for fail grammar, other than laziness [/grammarnazi]
Trust me. I can understand the dislike of poor grammar as much as the next person. However, there are plenty of people in the world (and on this site) which have English as their primary language and cannot use proper grammar to save their life.
So, I would appreciate it if you would drop this completely because it is slightly insulting to him, in my opinion. As long as his posts stay legible (which if you've ever read a jordman post, you'll know Vex posts much more legible than he did half the time) then I am fine with him.
I've already commented on this.
Just included it for fullness
To be fair, it's not on the anti-town list. I completely missed the list labeled "Mafia" in my quick re-glance at it before linking it.
But, see, I still can't understand how you did! Let's look at this again. You state you saw it on the town list, but not the anti-town list.
Basic
Mafia
Goon
Roleblocker
Godfather
Town
Townie
Cop
Doctor
Roleblocker
Vigilante
Mason
Third-party
Serial Killer
This is exactly the order the list appears in in the link you provided.
Now, one could argue that you missed the "Basic" section altogether since you state that roleblocker was not listed as anti-town. However, you also stated that it was in the town list, so that theory is out.
I find it incredibly hard to believe that you glanced at this page and didn't notice the first information on the page. Period. End of story. If this is the case, you really need to be more careful what you say in your defense.
How was I supposed to know if Town RB or Scum RB was the more common one?
Why would you assume that Town RBer was more common if your first experience with a RBer was as scum? I find it hard to believe as well that you got it as scum first, then got it as town and took it upon yourself to decide that Zebi must have used it as a fluke.
Also, researching into the first post of many completed games will overwhelmingly prove that a scum RBer is much more common than a town RBer. Also, there's the fact that we've told you, many times, that scum RBer is more common. Scum or town, there's absolutely no benefit to us lying to you about this, so it's safe to assume we're not.
I'm simply providing flavor to the group.
See, it didn't come across as such. It came across as you stating that what you were saying absolutely had to be what Zinda would have done. You can't possibly know what Zinda would have done unless you reviewed the game or are Zinda, so you sounding so positive that this is the case makes me believe you have inside information, meaning I think you're scum.
I wasn't trying to deflect onto Talore, I thought glossed-over meant something different.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this because it still looks to me like you did.
I would like to hear more from dracofaust and TeknoLink on their opinions of Zajnet. They can wait until he responds to this if they'd prefer.
Fencesitting is when you sit undecided on a situation.
In this example:
Quote from Zajnet »
I'm not in favor of it, I'm just not against it. I don't see any way that it could hurt us, but I don't really see that big of a way that it could help us.
The underlined portion is absolute fence-sitting. The problem is that it leaves him open to say "I was for it" or "I was against it", whichever ends up working out.
This is exactly the order the list appears in in the link you provided.
Now, one could argue that you missed the "Basic" section altogether since you state that roleblocker was not listed as anti-town. However, you also stated that it was in the town list, so that theory is out.
I find it incredibly hard to believe that you glanced at this page and didn't notice the first information on the page. Period. End of story. If this is the case, you really need to be more careful what you say in your defense.
Fencesitting is when you sit undecided on a situation.
In this example:
The underlined portion is absolute fence-sitting. The problem is that it leaves him open to say "I was for it" or "I was against it", whichever ends up working out.
I've never understood why this is this bad. This is a forum, where you can quote people. If I ever try to say that I was or wasn't for it, we have this quote to say that I wasn't, so I don't understand why that's an issue. I think a bigger issue would have been me telling y'all I was for it or against it when I wasn't, and then getting burned for that. Also, isn't this a bit of WIFOM. Aren't scum smart enough to not do things that people arbitrarily think are scummy, especially when they're really not?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
Also, isn't this a bit of WIFOM. Aren't scum smart enough to not do things that people arbitrarily think are scummy, especially when they're really not?
Yes, but so is this.
The general consensus around the more experienced players is that fence-sitting is bad. It doesn't always mean scum, but it is bad.
Fence sitting is scumy because the scum can say "I'm not sure if I'll vote X" and after 80 posts say something like this " I'm voting X. I was sure from the beginning that he's scum."
and nobody could argue with that.
Also I relistened the song and the jester feels like he's a bad guy. I don't know if it's true but that's my feel. After relistening I found another scum role but for that we need more claims. Can we all claim what we are ? I found something that clearly states against my character and mine's town so the other one should be scum.
After this being said UNVOTE; Vote Zajnet.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
When the jester sang for the king and queen,
In a coat he borrowed from James Dean
And a voice that came from you and me,
Oh, and while the king was looking down,
The jester stole his thorny crown.
The courtroom was adjourned;
No verdict was returned.
And while Lennon read a book of Marx,
The quartet practiced in the park
And we sang dirges in the dark
The day the music died.
The players tried for a forward pass,
With the jester on the sidelines as a cast.
This is all the lyrics that mention the jester.
It may be just me but stealing a crown seems scumy.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
EBWOP: I got all scums now from the song. I honestly think if everyone claims i can get the scum.
This is some major mod-gaming you're working on, but I'm not sure if claiming our names now will out some power roles or not, so I'm against it at this time.
I'll whatever-is-slightly-lower-than-a-FoS him and find some proof, but for now it's just a tiny suspicion.
OK, I realize I'm am not and should not be "in charge" here, but can we please stop this? We have votes, and we have FoS for things that are especially suspicious but not getting a vote. That's all we need. This HoS and IGMEOY and a dozen other little degrees of suspicion are just annoying and confusing. So please. Pretty please, with a cherry on top.
Bold #1: Holy education Batman! That logic is very very bad. Many wagon members could be scum, don't feel obligation due to a wasted vote; because if we lynch town that's worse than not voting at all. And there are more townies than scum.
Please don't educate people with wrong statements. Vez may be exaggerating, but his brain is in the right place. Putting your vote somewhere puts it to work: putting pressure on someone, evoking responses, helping the town get a read on him, etc.
I've never understood why this is this bad. This is a forum, where you can quote people. If I ever try to say that I was or wasn't for it, we have this quote to say that I wasn't, so I don't understand why that's an issue. I think a bigger issue would have been me telling y'all I was for it or against it when I wasn't, and then getting burned for that.
The problem with fence-sitting is you can go back and "interpret" your post to be whatever you think is more favorable. Sure, you can't say "I was obviously in support or that/against that", but if you're to say "well I felt more strongly that way" who's to argue?
In other words, fence-sitting is bad because it is a way to add support to something while distancing yourself from it.
EBWOP: I got all scums now from the song. I honestly think if everyone claims i can get the scum.
No offense, but since you've claimed "poor wording choices" on something as clear on whether or not you think someone is scum, I'm not exactly inspired to think you've managed to decipher language as subtle as poetic semantics. Not to mention it's pure mod-gaming when we have zero confirmed rolenames (much less scum rolenames) tow work with.
This post always bothered me, too, because he's pointing out that people need to unvote their random votes, but didn't notice his own?
Indeed. But does this not also establish a pattern of missing obvious things? If there's not any particular scum motivation for this error (and there isn't), doesn't this make it more believeable that he'd make a similar mistake with the wiki thing?
mod-gaming
[...]
more mod-gaming. It's irrelevant to me whether you had to look this information up or if you just knew it. The fact remains that you cannot possibly KNOW how Zindabad set up the game, so all this is pointless, to a point.
Well now this is eerily familiar... you're attacking him for using mod-gaming as a defense against attacks that were based on mod-gaming.
This looks a lot like you're not trying to understand his responses, you're just looking for the scummiest interpretation.
Vote: MandersHex
On Zaj, my feelings before were that he may very well be town and if he's scum then it's likely we've got their only power role on a leash. The whole wiki mess was making me wonder whether he should just be lynched straight away. I don't think he should.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Golden Rule of forums: If you're going to be rude, be right. If you might be wrong, be polite.
OK, I realize I'm am not and should not be "in charge" here, but can we please stop this? We have votes, and we have FoS for things that are especially suspicious but not getting a vote. That's all we need. This HoS and IGMEOY and a dozen other little degrees of suspicion are just annoying and confusing. So please. Pretty please, with a cherry on top.
Please don't educate people with wrong statements. Vez may be exaggerating, but his brain is in the right place. Putting your vote somewhere puts it to work: putting pressure on someone, evoking responses, helping the town get a read on him, etc.
The problem with fence-sitting is you can go back and "interpret" your post to be whatever you think is more favorable. Sure, you can't say "I was obviously in support or that/against that", but if you're to say "well I felt more strongly that way" who's to argue?
In other words, fence-sitting is bad because it is a way to add support to something while distancing yourself from it.
Now then, with the out of the way:
No offense, but since you've claimed "poor wording choices" on something as clear on whether or not you think someone is scum, I'm not exactly inspired to think you've managed to decipher language as subtle as poetic semantics. Not to mention it's pure mod-gaming when we have zero confirmed rolenames (much less scum rolenames) tow work with.
Why did you specifically name me here?
What, specifically, annoys you about that?
Going to a wiki page to find evidence to back up your claim doesn't strike me as hasty.
Indeed. But does this not also establish a pattern of missing obvious things? If there's not any particular scum motivation for this error (and there isn't), doesn't this make it more believeable that he'd make a similar mistake with the wiki thing?
Well now this is eerily familiar... you're attacking him for using mod-gaming as a defense against attacks that were based on mod-gaming.
This looks a lot like you're not trying to understand his responses, you're just looking for the scummiest interpretation.
Vote: MandersHex
On Zaj, my feelings before were that he may very well be town and if he's scum then it's likely we've got their only power role on a leash. The whole wiki mess was making me wonder whether he should just be lynched straight away. I don't think he should.
What ????????????????????????????????/
You say you think zaj is scum . You say if we vote him we vote their only PR and then you say we should vote for him right now. Explain to me how's that town behaivour.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
and then you say we should vote for him right now.
Where did I say that? I recall saying we shouldn't. Maybe that's what you meant, in which case let me try explaining it again.
I think his behavior makes him suspect but isn't enough on it's own to warrant ignoring his claim and lynching him. His claim is also highly suspicious but having it in the open means it's on a leash; regardless of his alignment, the ability will have to be used in a pro-town way otherwise he's lynched.
Let me put it this way: we would absolutely be justified in lynching him right now. I'm not convinced he's scum and I see little risk in leaving him alive at least one night and seeing what happens. Anyone who is convinced he's scum should vote for him.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Golden Rule of forums: If you're going to be rude, be right. If you might be wrong, be polite.
I think his behavior makes him suspect but isn't enough on it's own to warrant ignoring his claim and lynching him. His claim is also highly suspicious but having it in the open means it's on a leash; regardless of his alignment, the ability will have to be used in a pro-town way otherwise he's lynched.
Let me put it this way: we would absolutely be justified in lynching him right now. I'm not convinced he's scum and I see little risk in leaving him alive at least one night and seeing what happens. Anyone who is convinced he's scum should vote for him.
This makes sense; though I have no problems with lynching him. Unvote; IGMEOY Zaj
I wasn't really suspicious of zajnet but his defense against manderhex's post seems kinda weak so now i'm thinking differently.
What do you think is the single most compelling case for Zaj as scum? Which (if any) of his interactions with Manderhex struck you as "gotcha" moments?
Manderhex, what do you currently consider your #1 reason for believing Zaj is scum?
Vez: We will almost certainly not be mass claiming on Day 1. It's highly unlikely that the game could be broken by a D1 mass claim, assuming any kind of competent mod experience. Your info may become useful after we get a little solid info out there, and maybe already have a Scum down. For now just hold onto it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"There is no royal road to science, and only those who do not dread the fatiguing climb
of its steep paths have a chance of gaining its luminous summits"
-Karl Heinrich Marx Cube
Manderhex, what do you currently consider your #1 reason for believing Zaj is scum?
My #1 reason for thinking he is scum is that I can't believe he would legitimately say that he didn't know RBer was scum when he was in fact a scum RBer beforehand. This reasoning does not line up, and it gives me pause as to whatever else may not be as it seems.
My #1 reason for thinking he is scum is that I can't believe he would legitimately say that he didn't know RBer was scum when he was in fact a scum RBer beforehand. This reasoning does not line up, and it gives me pause as to whatever else may not be as it seems.
I never said that I didn't know RB was scum. I said I didn't know scum RB was more common than town RB. Can we please move on from my epic failz earlier?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
What do you think is the single most compelling case for Zaj as scum? Which (if any) of his interactions with Manderhex struck you as "gotcha" moments?
I'm not sure whether he's scum, or whether he really did make a lot of mistakes, which is why i didn't vote for him. None of them was really 'gotcha', it just felt like he's trying to cover up his actions by saying they were mistakes.
I never said that I didn't know RB was scum. I said I didn't know scum RB was more common than town RB. Can we please move on from my epic failz earlier?
This isn't an ObvScumTell, but it is still FoS material. You either obviously are: Scum RBer trying to pass off as Town RBer, or ACTUALLY Town RBer, but is really flustered. There's no way to tell yet, and I'm not very good at tell-finding.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to Darth Monkey and SGT_Chubbz at Damnation Studios for the sig and banner.
Quote from Bone_doc »
This virtual world is begining to feel more and more like Tron, exept with less motorcycles and more card games
I felt enough had happened since you both had last weighed in that I was interested in your thoughts on our discussion of Zajnet. You both also happen to be fairly experienced, which means you can help generate discussion, which was sorely lacking when I made this post.
Quote from Talore »
This makes sense; though I have no problems with lynching him.
Unvote; IGMEOY Zaj
So where do you stand? If you have no problem lynching him that means you're for lynching him. But you're agreeing with Kraj's reasoning, which is that there is a problem with lynching (in that we do not get the advantage of not lynching him).
Quote from dracofaust »
I'm not sure whether he's scum, or whether he really did make a lot of mistakes, which is why i didn't vote for him. None of them was really 'gotcha', it just felt like he's trying to cover up his actions by saying they were mistakes.
Can you clarify this? As long as we're talking about the wiki situation, Zaj (to summarize the last few pages) quoted a source that did not at all back up his claims and then claimed (wrongly) that told us he missed the inconsistencies re: the source he quote. What is the scummy action here that he's trying to cover up? What is the scum motivation for knowingly quoting bad proof? Or are we talking about some earlier situation here?
I can't tell you why but now I'm certain zajnet is scum. Believe me on this one.I am 100% sure he's scum.
It's still day 1, so you can't have tracked me or anything overnight. We've already established that you can only mod-game so far. Unless your role PM specifically references me, which you would have said by now, then you have nothing.
Unvote, Vote: Vezopiraka. The only way you can be 100% sure that I'm scum is if you're scum and you're substituting the word town for the word scum.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
I can't say how I know that. I have something like an inside source. You'll have to be believe me this time.
I can't just believe you. Unless you provide some reasoning, we will assume that you're scum; that's just how it works. There's absolutely no reason for any of us to believe that it's anything more than a gambit, and I can't believe you because you're wrong.
This seems to me like a fail gambit if he knows that I'm town because I'll get lynched, flip town, and then he'll get lynched on page 1 of day 2.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
Also why are you fencesitting?
For zajnet: It goes like this
1)I'm town. I get lynched. Day 2 your lynched and flip scum.
2)I'm town. You get lynched. You flip scum.
3)I'm scum. You get lynched. You flip town. Day 2 I get lynched.
4)I'm scum. I get lynched.
5) We are both town. Highly unlikely.
6)We are both scum.
Also i happen to know for a fact that if your scum you always claim Town RB.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY VIBEBOX :toot::toot::toot::toot:
Saw it at the bottom of the index. Also guys I think we should remember that there are 3 scums in this game. So there is a chance that Talore iPot and zajnet are all scum
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
When did anyone say we couldn't?
How dare you steal my thunder?! You know that's my thing!
Anyway, yes, there are 3 scum, and I'll hopefully be able to post my reasoning on Zajnet today. Apologies for leaving you hanging, guys.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
Very much looking forward to reading this. I have the strong gut feeling that Zaj is getting bused. The mistakes just don't seem to add up to scum in my mind. The problem is that a lot of the people voting for him still aren't providing well thought-out reasoning which makes it very difficult for me to determine by whom. I'm going to analyze some of these posts tonight.
Hmm... town roleblocker...
Most basic games here have had a roleblocker of some sort, and most of the time they're scum. There's a few exceptions (Ecophagy's games come to mind), but due to there not being many suitable scum roles for a basic and how scum roleblockers tend to make the game more balanced, scum typically have some sort of roleblock ability in basics. That doesn't mean that we should just assume that roleblocker=scum though.
"Annoying critics" as flavor for a roleblock feels a bit off, but roleblocker seems like an odd false claim as scum.
I don't really see this as quite as bad as people are making it out to be.
If he were a scum roleblocker two times in a row, I don't see him trying to pass roleblocker off as a town role. He knows there are some experienced people in this game. If he were a scum roleblocker once and then a town roleblocker, it's plausible that he could've missed the short basic mafia roles section (and thought that the "anti town" section was for mafia roles) and noticed that "roleblocker" was under town roles. It doesn't quite line up with him knowing the wiki as well as he says he does, but I guess I could believe that he just missed that section or something.
Personally, my role pm flavor puts the 60s and the progression of rock in pretty good light.
Typically, "busing" is when scum wagon their scum buddies to get town cred. I think you just mean that he's being wagoned by scum, Unless I misread you earlier and you think Zaj is scum.
~
Unvote for now. I'm inclined to leave Zaj alone for today.
I need to look over this game again, but I won't be able to do it until tomorrow night unfortunately.
Thanks for this - used the wrong term. Just to be clear, I do mean being wagoned by scum rather than bused.
I know I just said I said I was going to leave you alone for now, but one quick question:
With the last sentence, what made you think that godfathers were typical in a basic? I don't think a single basic game here has had a godfather, due to it requiring the mod to lie to players.
The 12 person card game I have has a Godfather. I haven't played enough on this site to know exactly how its usually done, which is why I put down three options for the scum to be.
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Fence-sitting on the soft-claim
Speculation
More fence-sitting on the soft-claim.
Now, on this, one could argue that he's hinting at his own "funky role" thus making the claim true, but one could also argue that he could have implemented it purposefully for that reason, so it's WIFOM.
Possible coaching of a buddy.
I've already said the FoS seems forced on this post.
This post always bothered me, too, because he's pointing out that people need to unvote their random votes, but didn't notice his own?
Just from what you've said here, you yourself don't KNOW that he's town in the other game, so it bothers me that you would defend him at all. That's not your job, anyway.
Here we have his claim. Town RBer is a valid role, but very rare. I've seen it more and more recently, but still. Mafia RBer is much more common, and it's not a stretch to think that he decided to claim Town RBer to cover his bases.
I don't like how you keep attacking him, however weakly, for his grammar and such. It's obvious he lives in another country, so a little compassion is not too much to ask for. His posts are not illegible in the least.
Again, with the language issue.
I've already commented on this.
This first sentence reads to me as guilty conscience. Also, you obviously do not know which roles are town and which are scum since you said RBer wasn't on the anti-town list.
mod-gaming
Here, you reveal that you were in fact a scum RBer in another game, thus contradicting pretty much everything you've said regarding your role since you claimed it.
more mod-gaming. It's irrelevant to me whether you had to look this information up or if you just knew it. The fact remains that you cannot possibly KNOW how Zindabad set up the game, so all this is pointless, to a point.
Question: why would you link something as evidence to your case without checking it first?
I am of the opinion that anyone posting a link as evidence of their innocence would actually make sure that the evidence they're providing actually proves their innocence.
We all have stories of why we're so tired or unable to post more or whatnot, so meh on that.
However, do you know what glossed means? Because by missing "that one word", that is glossing over something.
I say this, not to be a *****, but to point out that it seems like you subtly tried to deflect onto Talore for putting words in your mouth.
You've said many times that you're not in your right mind, so yes, this is entirely possible.
yeah, that's good for me. The contradictions themselves are enough for a vote, but I don't like how he tries to blame it all on being tired and/or sick.
Vote stands.[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT]
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
On phone, hard to type.
Thanks to Darth Monkey and SGT_Chubbz at Damnation Studios for the sig and banner.
Has anyone played a game with zajnet ? Is he acting like in that game? iirc he was mafia there so maybe his play could tell us if his scum or not.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
I've played only one game with Zaj, but it turned out he was scum, so I don't know.
And godfathers would be very helpful to mafia. Sort of like a throwoff to the cop.
Thanks to Darth Monkey and SGT_Chubbz at Damnation Studios for the sig and banner.
of its steep paths have a chance of gaining its luminous summits"
-Karl Heinrich Marx
Cube
IIRC, all of those (or at least three of them) refer to the same mistake. I kept getting attacked for it so I had to keep saying what it was. A mistake. Gonna quote this post now and say I've made 5 mistakes?
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
What does this mean? Is he acting the same way in this game? Differently?
Also I'd be interested in hearing from Vibebox, Kraj, etc. - people who haven't been directly involved or taken a stand on the Zajnet wagon yet.
This post seems more like he is trying to say "look at all the mistakes he made!" without bothering to actually check what said "mistakes" were... IMO it looks like he skimmed through dudes posts and saw that he used the word "mistake" and "sorry" a few times and thought he could put some heat on him. Scum bussing scum perhaps?
I didn't attack you for speculating, merely stated it was speculation, which it is. It's speculating on what could be a role, even to say that anything could be.
Why so defensive?
Fence-sitting is always frowned upon.
Possibly? You don't know the reasoning you had for saying that? o.O
The parentheses are a point against you because I do not recall seeing you use them much before this post, and you've started using them since then, making it appear that this is the case. I'm not convinced.
Honest mistakes happen. I know this better than anyone. But so many? They're not all one mistake.
You should state your stance on the situation and proceed to scumhunt elsewhere. You haven't done too much of that, iirc.
This is for everyone: Please don't answer questions that were not addresses to you. It could give scum an out on a situation we may have put them into with our question.
It's more speculation and WIFOM, but still worth mentioning. It's not a prominent point, nevertheless.
Trust me. I can understand the dislike of poor grammar as much as the next person. However, there are plenty of people in the world (and on this site) which have English as their primary language and cannot use proper grammar to save their life.
So, I would appreciate it if you would drop this completely because it is slightly insulting to him, in my opinion. As long as his posts stay legible (which if you've ever read a jordman post, you'll know Vex posts much more legible than he did half the time) then I am fine with him.
Just included it for fullness
But, see, I still can't understand how you did! Let's look at this again. You state you saw it on the town list, but not the anti-town list.
Basic
Mafia
Goon
Roleblocker
Godfather
Town
Townie
Cop
Doctor
Roleblocker
Vigilante
Mason
Third-party
Serial Killer
Advanced
Anti-Town and Third-Party Roles
Traitor
Poisoner
Werewolf (Role)
Cult Leader
Jester
Survivor
This is exactly the order the list appears in in the link you provided.
Now, one could argue that you missed the "Basic" section altogether since you state that roleblocker was not listed as anti-town. However, you also stated that it was in the town list, so that theory is out.
I find it incredibly hard to believe that you glanced at this page and didn't notice the first information on the page. Period. End of story. If this is the case, you really need to be more careful what you say in your defense.
Why would you assume that Town RBer was more common if your first experience with a RBer was as scum? I find it hard to believe as well that you got it as scum first, then got it as town and took it upon yourself to decide that Zebi must have used it as a fluke.
Also, researching into the first post of many completed games will overwhelmingly prove that a scum RBer is much more common than a town RBer. Also, there's the fact that we've told you, many times, that scum RBer is more common. Scum or town, there's absolutely no benefit to us lying to you about this, so it's safe to assume we're not.
See, it didn't come across as such. It came across as you stating that what you were saying absolutely had to be what Zinda would have done. You can't possibly know what Zinda would have done unless you reviewed the game or are Zinda, so you sounding so positive that this is the case makes me believe you have inside information, meaning I think you're scum.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this because it still looks to me like you did.
I would like to hear more from dracofaust and TeknoLink on their opinions of Zajnet. They can wait until he responds to this if they'd prefer.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
In this example:
The underlined portion is absolute fence-sitting. The problem is that it leaves him open to say "I was for it" or "I was against it", whichever ends up working out.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
http://dissertation.jtlopez.com/
I read this link fully
This is a friend of mine's dissertation. Read the introduction and you'll see how I could have missed the first section.
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
I've never understood why this is this bad. This is a forum, where you can quote people. If I ever try to say that I was or wasn't for it, we have this quote to say that I wasn't, so I don't understand why that's an issue. I think a bigger issue would have been me telling y'all I was for it or against it when I wasn't, and then getting burned for that. Also, isn't this a bit of WIFOM. Aren't scum smart enough to not do things that people arbitrarily think are scummy, especially when they're really not?
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
Just another thing we'll have to agree to disagree on because I'm of the belief you should read in order as it appears, but that's just me.
Yes, but so is this.
The general consensus around the more experienced players is that fence-sitting is bad. It doesn't always mean scum, but it is bad.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
and nobody could argue with that.
Also I relistened the song and the jester feels like he's a bad guy. I don't know if it's true but that's my feel. After relistening I found another scum role but for that we need more claims. Can we all claim what we are ? I found something that clearly states against my character and mine's town so the other one should be scum.
After this being said UNVOTE; Vote Zajnet.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
This is all the lyrics that mention the jester.
It may be just me but stealing a crown seems scumy.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
I meant if they claim the name not everything
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
This is some major mod-gaming you're working on, but I'm not sure if claiming our names now will out some power roles or not, so I'm against it at this time.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
OK, I realize I'm am not and should not be "in charge" here, but can we please stop this? We have votes, and we have FoS for things that are especially suspicious but not getting a vote. That's all we need. This HoS and IGMEOY and a dozen other little degrees of suspicion are just annoying and confusing. So please. Pretty please, with a cherry on top.
Please don't educate people with wrong statements. Vez may be exaggerating, but his brain is in the right place. Putting your vote somewhere puts it to work: putting pressure on someone, evoking responses, helping the town get a read on him, etc.
The problem with fence-sitting is you can go back and "interpret" your post to be whatever you think is more favorable. Sure, you can't say "I was obviously in support or that/against that", but if you're to say "well I felt more strongly that way" who's to argue?
In other words, fence-sitting is bad because it is a way to add support to something while distancing yourself from it.
Now then, with the out of the way:
No offense, but since you've claimed "poor wording choices" on something as clear on whether or not you think someone is scum, I'm not exactly inspired to think you've managed to decipher language as subtle as poetic semantics. Not to mention it's pure mod-gaming when we have zero confirmed rolenames (much less scum rolenames) tow work with.
Why did you specifically name me here?
What, specifically, annoys you about that?
Going to a wiki page to find evidence to back up your claim doesn't strike me as hasty.
Indeed. But does this not also establish a pattern of missing obvious things? If there's not any particular scum motivation for this error (and there isn't), doesn't this make it more believeable that he'd make a similar mistake with the wiki thing?
Well now this is eerily familiar... you're attacking him for using mod-gaming as a defense against attacks that were based on mod-gaming.
This looks a lot like you're not trying to understand his responses, you're just looking for the scummiest interpretation.
Vote: MandersHex
On Zaj, my feelings before were that he may very well be town and if he's scum then it's likely we've got their only power role on a leash. The whole wiki mess was making me wonder whether he should just be lynched straight away. I don't think he should.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
What ????????????????????????????????/
You say you think zaj is scum . You say if we vote him we vote their only PR and then you say we should vote for him right now. Explain to me how's that town behaivour.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
My feelings exactly
No, I said there's a good chance he is. I said it's also quite possible he's town.
No, I have no such knowledge. But if he is both mafia and a roleblocker, it's very likely they have no other power role.
Where did I say that? I recall saying we shouldn't. Maybe that's what you meant, in which case let me try explaining it again.
I think his behavior makes him suspect but isn't enough on it's own to warrant ignoring his claim and lynching him. His claim is also highly suspicious but having it in the open means it's on a leash; regardless of his alignment, the ability will have to be used in a pro-town way otherwise he's lynched.
Let me put it this way: we would absolutely be justified in lynching him right now. I'm not convinced he's scum and I see little risk in leaving him alive at least one night and seeing what happens. Anyone who is convinced he's scum should vote for him.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
This makes sense; though I have no problems with lynching him.
Unvote; IGMEOY Zaj
What do you think is the single most compelling case for Zaj as scum? Which (if any) of his interactions with Manderhex struck you as "gotcha" moments?
Manderhex, what do you currently consider your #1 reason for believing Zaj is scum?
Vez: We will almost certainly not be mass claiming on Day 1. It's highly unlikely that the game could be broken by a D1 mass claim, assuming any kind of competent mod experience. Your info may become useful after we get a little solid info out there, and maybe already have a Scum down. For now just hold onto it.
of its steep paths have a chance of gaining its luminous summits"
-Karl Heinrich Marx
Cube
My #1 reason for thinking he is scum is that I can't believe he would legitimately say that he didn't know RBer was scum when he was in fact a scum RBer beforehand. This reasoning does not line up, and it gives me pause as to whatever else may not be as it seems.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
I never said that I didn't know RB was scum. I said I didn't know scum RB was more common than town RB. Can we please move on from my epic failz earlier?
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
I'm not sure whether he's scum, or whether he really did make a lot of mistakes, which is why i didn't vote for him. None of them was really 'gotcha', it just felt like he's trying to cover up his actions by saying they were mistakes.
This isn't an ObvScumTell, but it is still FoS material. You either obviously are: Scum RBer trying to pass off as Town RBer, or ACTUALLY Town RBer, but is really flustered. There's no way to tell yet, and I'm not very good at tell-finding.
Thanks to Darth Monkey and SGT_Chubbz at Damnation Studios for the sig and banner.
I felt enough had happened since you both had last weighed in that I was interested in your thoughts on our discussion of Zajnet. You both also happen to be fairly experienced, which means you can help generate discussion, which was sorely lacking when I made this post.
So where do you stand? If you have no problem lynching him that means you're for lynching him. But you're agreeing with Kraj's reasoning, which is that there is a problem with lynching (in that we do not get the advantage of not lynching him).
Can you clarify this? As long as we're talking about the wiki situation, Zaj (to summarize the last few pages) quoted a source that did not at all back up his claims and then claimed (wrongly) that told us he missed the inconsistencies re: the source he quote. What is the scummy action here that he's trying to cover up? What is the scum motivation for knowingly quoting bad proof? Or are we talking about some earlier situation here?
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
It's still day 1, so you can't have tracked me or anything overnight. We've already established that you can only mod-game so far. Unless your role PM specifically references me, which you would have said by now, then you have nothing.
Unvote, Vote: Vezopiraka. The only way you can be 100% sure that I'm scum is if you're scum and you're substituting the word town for the word scum.
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
Spelling fail.
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
I can't just believe you. Unless you provide some reasoning, we will assume that you're scum; that's just how it works. There's absolutely no reason for any of us to believe that it's anything more than a gambit, and I can't believe you because you're wrong.
This seems to me like a fail gambit if he knows that I'm town because I'll get lynched, flip town, and then he'll get lynched on page 1 of day 2.
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
FoS Vez, seems suspicious.
Thanks to Darth Monkey and SGT_Chubbz at Damnation Studios for the sig and banner.
/barn
Also why are you fencesitting?
For zajnet: It goes like this
1)I'm town. I get lynched. Day 2 your lynched and flip scum.
2)I'm town. You get lynched. You flip scum.
3)I'm scum. You get lynched. You flip town. Day 2 I get lynched.
4)I'm scum. I get lynched.
5) We are both town. Highly unlikely.
6)We are both scum.
Also i happen to know for a fact that if your scum you always claim Town RB.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread