There is no way Cyan is scum. He could have easily joined my wagon instead of defending me.
The three of you (WoD, PhantomS, and kpaca) are being absurd right now, hopping between me and Cyan and hoping for the hammer.
I'm starting to get a lot more suspicious of kpaca, but I still can't bring myself to believe that Kraj would replace under the circumstances as scum. It would just be a dick move.
Everyone has been in the forum since I voted you and no one has chosen to hammer. If I'm wrong about you, that means DYH is correct about Skander.
Now I have to go back and decide how much I trust DYH.
So we have a few scenarios here:
Three scum:
A) WoD is scum and his buddies don't want to hammer him in an attempt to win today.
B) WoD is town, and all three people currently voting WoD are scum. (If they weren't, one of them would've just hammered for the win already.)
B does not seem like a plausible option to me - if Pale Mage is scum, I'd be shocked, not to mention all three of them could have piled on to my PhantomS vote for the win earlier today.
Two scum:
A) WoD is scum and his buddy doesn't want to hammer him in order to have a chance to win tomorrow.
B) WoD is town and both scum are already voting him.
C) WoD is town and the scum are hesitant to hammer because of potential scrutiny tomorrow.
I have already stated my concern with Skander bringing up this two mafia thing, but I'm listing all options I can think of for completeness' sake. The problem is that all three of these options above are plausible when considering only two scum.
And the more I think about it, there were several opportunities for a speed-lynch today that were missed. Of course, given the activity level of some of the remaining players, that could be a contributing factor as to why that hasn't happened.
And the more I think about it, there were several opportunities for a speed-lynch today that were missed. Of course, given the activity level of some of the remaining players, that could be a contributing factor as to why that hasn't happened.
Every player in the game has had the opportunity to lynch WoD since he's been at L-1. In fact, every player has had a chance to hammer him since I mentioned he could be hammered.
The scum would have to be getting way too cute with this or dense as hell not to have lynched WoD if it would end the game.
Azrael called it, and now that he's dead, we can trust him farther than we can throw him!
Check out the emotion in this post. This is the same guy who later says he doesn't really think that PhantomS is scum. He's invoking the name of Az in excitement and encouraging all of us to follow his lead. He isn't simply riding Az's coattails because he doesn't trust himself.
This is the post of a scum pushing a speedlynch to start the day, not the post of a townie who is frustrated with the rate of play this game.
@DYH: Like I said, I probably should never have brought it up. I didn't think it through. I tend to just post what's on my mind and I've gotten in trouble for it in other games as well. There's no specific reason that I posted it.
After several long drawn-out days, the town finally springs into action as the urgency of their situation becomes apparent. After much debate, discussion, and confusion, Wrath_of_Dog is finally sent to the gallows. His neck blessedly snaps, so the town does not have to contemplate his feeble kicks as he goes out. However, after searching WoD's house and belongings, they cannot find any connection he might have to the mafia.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
As the town reconvenes after another rough night, one many supposed they wouldn't have, only five emerge sleepily from their beds. After a short check, Pale Mage is found left in a crumpled heap in a back alley, his throat slit. The five all glance at each other suspiciously and head off to the village green, each one guarding his own back from his fellows.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
I think the scum team has to be PhantomS and DYH. PhantomS because despite everything he's still alive and DYH by process of elimination. I do not want to believe that Kraj would do such a thing so yeah. and Cyan I don't see as scum - it's possible but I doubt it. I'd like to lynch PhantomS today.
I think the scum team has to be PhantomS and DYH. PhantomS because despite everything he's still alive and DYH by process of elimination. I do not want to believe that Kraj would do such a thing so yeah. and Cyan I don't see as scum - it's possible but I doubt it. I'd like to lynch PhantomS today.
Despite everything? That's not even a case. This is just a lot of empty sentences.
Something is wrong here. If I'm right about a DYH-PhantomS scumteam the game should be over by now as DYH had time to hammer. So the possibilities have just narrowed down:
DYH-Cyan
Kpaca-Cyan
PhantomS-Cyan
PhantomS-kpaca.
So the only scenario without Cyan as scum has a PhantomS-kpaca scumteam. I probably should just hammer Cyan right now as if I don't I'm going to be the one that gets lynched, but even if Cyan is scum we're still going to lose because you guys will just lynch me tomorrow.
DYH:
I'm not dropping the hammer yet because we should be talking about tomorrow's scenario while we have 3 townie voices among us rather than two.
What's this supposed to mean? Everyone's posted besides for Cyan who you think is scum.
Yes, I do realize that if I'm wrong the scum will pile on, but at this point I will just have to be wrong if I am. I see no way I cannot vote for cyan. Tomorrow I will evaluate if I'd rather vote for you or Skander. Currently, I'm thinking you, but that could be changed.
However, I cannot see scum Cyan trying to hard to lynch Skander if Skander were his scum buddy.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Official Moderator of The [Gutter]
Think the MtgStaff is just swell? Join today! You too can be involved in an 8 year grudge and delete nearly 9000 of kpaca's posts!
Kpaca has not said anything about who else he thinks is scum with Cyan; I'd like to hear from him as I expect he's probably on the mafia hitlist tonight since no one has really expressed any interest in him as a lynch.
Yeah I'm scum. I suspected that I might be replacing into a scum role(Netfinity was about as scummy as one can be on Day 1 while lurking a bunch), but Jerub really seemed in a bind, so, I just hoped it'd work out.
I got a couple mislynches out of you guys, so, I'm not terribly disappointed.
@kpaca: I can't say I'm real happy with your pre-determined statement here; obviously, I think your choice is wrong, and secondly you've now created a WIFOM situation with the nightkill, to boot.
@Kpaca: The possibility you're telling the truth leaves the door open for the scum not to kill you in hopes that you'll follow through on your word; or, if you're the last scum gives you an out for why you're still alive tomorrow.
Since God was apparently napping yesterday, the town sat for an awfully long time under the glow of the setting sun while Cyan's kicking faded slowly. After the town got to poking through the stuff in Cyan's place, they found a number of nasty, pointy, and otherwise scary items. It seemed rather clear that his intentions were not favorable for the town.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
A new day dawns, in a town which was now populated by only a handful of harassed, downtrodden people, with half the town decimated by random acts of God. Only three individuals drag themselves to the village green this morning, and kpaca is noticeably missing (again, I might add). At this point, the villagers don't even go check his house, they know the scene that awaits them. They all glare at each other suspiciously, looking intently for allies and enemies.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
@Kpaca: The possibility you're telling the truth leaves the door open for the scum not to kill you in hopes that you'll follow through on your word; or, if you're the last scum gives you an out for why you're still alive tomorrow.
Even allowing for the possibility that kpaca may have been scum after his actions yesterday is ludicrous. DYH has long been trying to push a mislynch on me, and while I find Skandar's play to have been erratic, it has been posted several times that this is his meta.
I will echo kpaca's sentiments. vote: DYH. I believe he's scum. If he's town, then GG Skandar.
Even allowing for the possibility that kpaca may have been scum after his actions yesterday is ludicrous.
That was clearly for show, as witnessed by my comment earlier about him being the likely NK target. The intention was to try and keep kpaca alive into today by presenting another option for the remaining scum to consider.
Quote from PhantomS »
DYH has long been trying to push a mislynch on me, and while I find Skandar's play to have been erratic, it has been posted several times that this is his meta.
Where has that been stated? Skander is a solid player with no such track record that I've seen in games I've played with him.
Quote from PhantomS »
I will echo kpaca's sentiments. vote: DYH. I believe he's scum. If he's town, then GG Skandar.
For someone who had so much trouble throughout the game making decisions and placing votes, this is awfully convenient. The fact you don't even consider discussing today before placing a vote says a lot.
In addition, the fact I'm still alive is probably a meta tell in Skander's favor over you, too. There's little doubt in my mind he would have nightkilled me a long time ago. You have no such history with me.
Who should I choose? The person who I've been suspicious of the whole game? Or maybe the person who tried to jump on me when I was down and who I think Cyan was trying to distance himself from yesterday? It's hard to decide. Whichever I choose I will feel bad if I make the wrong choice. At least you two didn't lynch me as I thought would happen.
Going to go with gut here as I feel that even after lengthy analysis that is what it will come down to (and plus I don't want to do the analysis), and
Vote DYH
Feel free to let me know if I screwed up but please don't yank my chain if you're scum.
That was clearly for show, as witnessed by my comment earlier about him being the likely NK target. The intention was to try and keep kpaca alive into today by presenting another option for the remaining scum to consider.
Yeah. Clearly.
Where has that been stated? Skander is a solid player with no such track record that I've seen in games I've played with him.
I have rehearsal in five, but this has been stated in this thread several times, and your attempt to get Skandar to gut reaction vote me is pathetic.
In addition, the fact I'm still alive is probably a meta tell in Skander's favor over you, too. There's little doubt in my mind he would have nightkilled me a long time ago. You have no such history with me.
How is that convincing at all? You want Skandar to read this and say "OH YEAH! I WOULD HAVE NIGHT KILLED YOU!"?
Are you serious right now?
[quote]For someone who had so much trouble throughout the game making decisions and placing votes, this is awfully convenient. The fact you don't even consider discussing today before placing a vote says a lot.
There was no reason to discuss today's lynch, because I had my mind made up before the day started. I have had plenty of conviction in a good number of my votes, so this case is totally bunk. A good example of such a vote is my vote yesterday on your scum buddy.
Who should I choose? The person who I've been suspicious of the whole game? Or maybe the person who tried to jump on me when I was down and who I think Cyan was trying to distance himself from yesterday? It's hard to decide. Whichever I choose I will feel bad if I make the wrong choice. At least you two didn't lynch me as I thought would happen.
Going to go with gut here as I feel that even after lengthy analysis that is what it will come down to (and plus I don't want to do the analysis), and
Vote DYH
Feel free to let me know if I screwed up but please don't yank my chain if you're scum.
This post makes me think I chose correctly. Also, nath'd.
I have rehearsal in five, but this has been stated in this thread several times, and your attempt to get Skandar to gut reaction vote me is pathetic.
How is that convincing at all? You want Skandar to read this and say "OH YEAH! I WOULD HAVE NIGHT KILLED YOU!"?
Are you serious right now?
There was no reason to discuss today's lynch, because I had my mind made up before the day started. I have had plenty of conviction in a good number of my votes, so this case is totally bunk. A good example of such a vote is my vote yesterday on your scum buddy.
The game is obviously over, but yes I was serious. What the hell else was I supposed to do, exactly?
For the record, though, I'd lay good money that I wouldn't be alive today if Skander had been scum. Same as if Cyan had been scum and I hadn't been his partner.
That was about the worst possible partner I could've ended up with for a two scum set-up. There was no way we were going to win this thing simply on the merit of "being alive", which you'll notice was the primary reason anyone was ever suspicious of me.
Congrats to the town, particularly kpaca who we had to kill twice.
Hey, are you saying you didn't want to be my scumbuddy? I've been looking forward to us being scum together since like..ever.
Though it could have been under better circumstances, instead of us both replacing for people that were obvscum.
It's ironic, I was reading the thread before I replaced and was like wow, ChrisXIV and Netfinity are soooo scummy. Then I replaced and found out why.
But then, we never had any business winning anyway. A 2 scum team in a 12 person game is always hard-pressed to win. When you add in that everyone is vanilla, it's all but impossible. I'm surprised that we got this far. I was pretty discouraged/annoyed when Kraj replaced out. I don't think that he did so because he was under pressure or anything, but still, him getting replaced there made it impossible to get a mislynch that otherwise would likely have happened. Ironically, the fact that he is such an upstanding moral character worked out well there. I don't think he would have requested replacement there as scum...and everyone knows it.
I still don't know how people figured out that DYH was scum, though(other than him just being alive this long). I thought that, after the way I avoided the Skander wagon when getting WoD killed, Skander would be an easy mislynch.
Hey, are you saying you didn't want to be my scumbuddy? I've been looking forward to us being scum together since like..ever.
We were scum together over on News, remember?
I don't want to be your *only* scum buddy because this is what happens, lol. In hindsight, killing Azrael was probably a mistake. We needed another analyst alive to get the "why are you alive" scrutiny.
Quote from Cyan »
Though it could have been under better circumstances, instead of us both replacing for people that were obvscum.
It's ironic, I was reading the thread before I replaced and was like wow, ChrisXIV and Netfinity are soooo scummy. Then I replaced and found out why.
Yeah; I tried to replace into this game like 5 times. I was pretty disappointed when I ended up with Chris; I had him pegged as scum based on his interactions with Azrael.
Quote from Cyan »
But then, we never had any business winning anyway. A 2 scum team in a 12 person game is always hard-pressed to win. When you add in that everyone is vanilla, it's all but impossible. I'm surprised that we got this far.
That makes two of us. I thought we played a pretty good game all things considered. The only thing I might take back I mentioned above. (Of course, then this thread would be four times as long and we'd still be on day 3! - j/k Az)
Quote from Cyan »
I still don't know how people figured out that DYH was scum, though(other than him just being alive this long). I thought that, after the way I avoided the Skander wagon when getting WoD killed, Skander would be an easy mislynch.
That's what I was hoping for, too, but Kpaca did that in with his little play at the end of yesterday. Props to him.
EDIT: Also, thanks to Jerubbaal for hosting the game. I'm sure this was a nightmare finding all those replacements.
I felt as if DYH's analysis of me was overly critical which first got me to look at him. I thought I was playing better than he was giving me credit for. Though maybe I was just terrible. Probably a big part as to why the mafia didn't care to NK me. I reckon kpaca is prolly the MVP here.
Hey, are you saying you didn't want to be my scumbuddy? I've been looking forward to us being scum together since like..ever.
Though it could have been under better circumstances, instead of us both replacing for people that were obvscum.
It's ironic, I was reading the thread before I replaced and was like wow, ChrisXIV and Netfinity are soooo scummy. Then I replaced and found out why.
But then, we never had any business winning anyway. A 2 scum team in a 12 person game is always hard-pressed to win. When you add in that everyone is vanilla, it's all but impossible. I'm surprised that we got this far. I was pretty discouraged/annoyed when Kraj replaced out. I don't think that he did so because he was under pressure or anything, but still, him getting replaced there made it impossible to get a mislynch that otherwise would likely have happened. Ironically, the fact that he is such an upstanding moral character worked out well there. I don't think he would have requested replacement there as scum...and everyone knows it.
I still don't know how people figured out that DYH was scum, though(other than him just being alive this long). I thought that, after the way I avoided the Skander wagon when getting WoD killed, Skander would be an easy mislynch.
It certainly would have worked on me if I wasn't lynched yesterday - I had you pegged for pretty much the whole of the Day.
And props to Skander, who it appears was actually right about there being only two mafia in a 12-man game.
I thought, and still think, and have been told by reviewers previously, that any game where town outnumbers non-town by more than 4:1 is in favour of the Town.
That sentiment is correct, particularly in smaller games, and *especially* when everyone is Vanilla. This game overwhelmingly favored the town. The 'two mason pairs' bit might have meant something if the name of the game wasn't such an obvious giveaway.
Can't really say the scum played bad - it just came down to a coin toss pretty much.
On the one hand I knew it had to be two scum setup but on the other it still favoured the town. I think that two scum make it harder to put together connections but still it requires a huge amount of staying undercover since they don't have the numbers.
I knew DYH was scum because he said I was a solid player...
Props to all, and yes, DYH was scum, of course. Town win, but I thought Cyan and DYH did very solid jobs as scum, esp with the replacement situation.
I've done some research on mountainous games before, as this was basically chrome mountainous, and 2-10 is the split they go by. Going 3-9 when you don't give the town power roles is stupidly biased for the scum. If we go by random actions (which a real mountainous game should be very close to, if the scum realize the scenario and play cleanly), it actually favors the scum statistically. This particular game was somewhat unfortunate, because with both Cyan and DYH as scum, making it to the endgame would be nearly impossible. I am actually extremely impressed you both managed to stay alive as long as you did, simply because your continued existence was proof enough of your scummitude. The meta definitely worked in favor of the town here.
I also tried to balance the game w/ flavor, as I believed that the Janus theme would generate at least one mislynch, and quite possibly more. There was another slight landmine in that I phrased two of the vanilla townie PMs differently (I believe it was Az and.... someone else, I should look it up) thinking that, in the instance of a claim, that might generate a mislynch as well. Most vanillas were townies, while one was a citizen and one was a townsfolk.
Biggest mistake of the scenario was actually to give the town a 1-shot vig, which I included because it's usually a fairly value-neutral role, but it's actually quite relevant in this scenario. Zas ended up w/ that, so fortunately it didn't come into play, but after watching how the game was playing out, I realized my mistake there.
Anyway, sorry this dragged out so long, but with the proliferation of power roles on this site, I really wanted to do something more heady and kind of counter-meta. Thanks for tolerating some slightly sloppy modding, and thanks all for finally bringing the thread to life at the end.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
Biggest problem with a 1-shot vig is that they're guaranteed confirmed, not as much the shot itself.
This game was pretty irritating, for reasons previously mentioned. Not for the setup, of course - after it's discovered everyone's a mason, nobody's going to use it, so it's a moot point; heck, it probably could have been cut with little change in the game's events - but for the fight with Az, which was obnoxious. Though I did get a kick out of poking fun at him by posting his name fifty times in one post.
EDIT: I counted; it was actually 84 times, plus a few excessive uses of excrutiating. It's probably a good thing I don't play this game any more.
Props to all, and yes, DYH was scum, of course. Town win, but I thought Cyan and DYH did very solid jobs as scum, esp with the replacement situation.
Cyan and DYH did very well. I think the replacement situation helped them out, actually. Netfinity probably would have been lynched had he not been repaced when he did.
Looking back I think Netfinity did well early (attacked his only scumbuddy very early on Day One). It was only towards the end of the day where his thought process started showing cracks.
I've done some research on mountainous games before, as this was basically chrome mountainous, and 2-10 is the split they go by. Going 3-9 when you don't give the town power roles is stupidly biased for the scum.
Fair enough, but with the masons I think this game could have supported one scum in the masons and two outside. The masons were certain to be exposed no later than Day Two.
If we go by random actions (which a real mountainous game should be very close to, if the scum realize the scenario and play cleanly), it actually favors the scum statistically. This particular game was somewhat unfortunate, because with both Cyan and DYH as scum, making it to the endgame would be nearly impossible. I am actually extremely impressed you both managed to stay alive as long as you did, simply because your continued existence was proof enough of your scummitude. The meta definitely worked in favor of the town here.
Props to Cyan and DYH for sure. The town nearly punted this one due to many townies not working with their teammates. I think this game is a good example of why cooperative play is so important as town. We were lucky to get away from PhantomS toward the end, although we ended up hitting WoD (sorry, dude...getting away from bad lynches is a huge hole in my game).
I also tried to balance the game w/ flavor, as I believed that the Janus theme would generate at least one mislynch, and quite possibly more. There was another slight landmine in that I phrased two of the vanilla townie PMs differently (I believe it was Az and.... someone else, I should look it up) thinking that, in the instance of a claim, that might generate a mislynch as well. Most vanillas were townies, while one was a citizen and one was a townsfolk.
Biggest mistake of the scenario was actually to give the town a 1-shot vig, which I included because it's usually a fairly value-neutral role, but it's actually quite relevant in this scenario. Zas ended up w/ that, so fortunately it didn't come into play, but after watching how the game was playing out, I realized my mistake there.
Interesting. I was working under the theory that Charm might have been a mason-maker based on some of the early interactions between Az and Charm and the flavor of the game.
Anyway, sorry this dragged out so long, but with the proliferation of power roles on this site, I really wanted to do something more heady and kind of counter-meta. Thanks for tolerating some slightly sloppy modding, and thanks all for finally bringing the thread to life at the end.
I don't think any blame for this dragging out rests on your shoulders. Vanilla roles are the basis of the game. Although on this site folks seem to yawn at them, I've never understood it, as I love being vanilla. Voice and a vote are the only tools one should need. Night actions are fine and all, but in the end they're just shortcuts. Proper scum-hunting is done during the day in my opinion.
Props to Cyan and DYH. I think kpain deserves the nod for town MVP, but despite the outcome I think the scum team look better than we do.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Pale Mage
Warning.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
The three of you (WoD, PhantomS, and kpaca) are being absurd right now, hopping between me and Cyan and hoping for the hammer.
I'm starting to get a lot more suspicious of kpaca, but I still can't bring myself to believe that Kraj would replace under the circumstances as scum. It would just be a dick move.
So...
If WoD is town, then there really are only two scum, and we are not at LyLo.
If there are three scum, then WoD is one of them.
Agree or disagree?
(I realize the above doesn't work for anyone who believes that I'm scum.)
I still contend we should lynch Dog today. I still think it's a three scum game. If I'm wrong, then I'm willing to look at Skander.
PPE:
@Skander - No response to DYH?
So we have a few scenarios here:
Three scum:
A) WoD is scum and his buddies don't want to hammer him in an attempt to win today.
B) WoD is town, and all three people currently voting WoD are scum. (If they weren't, one of them would've just hammered for the win already.)
B does not seem like a plausible option to me - if Pale Mage is scum, I'd be shocked, not to mention all three of them could have piled on to my PhantomS vote for the win earlier today.
Two scum:
A) WoD is scum and his buddy doesn't want to hammer him in order to have a chance to win tomorrow.
B) WoD is town and both scum are already voting him.
C) WoD is town and the scum are hesitant to hammer because of potential scrutiny tomorrow.
I have already stated my concern with Skander bringing up this two mafia thing, but I'm listing all options I can think of for completeness' sake. The problem is that all three of these options above are plausible when considering only two scum.
And the more I think about it, there were several opportunities for a speed-lynch today that were missed. Of course, given the activity level of some of the remaining players, that could be a contributing factor as to why that hasn't happened.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Every player in the game has had the opportunity to lynch WoD since he's been at L-1. In fact, every player has had a chance to hammer him since I mentioned he could be hammered.
The scum would have to be getting way too cute with this or dense as hell not to have lynched WoD if it would end the game.
Check out the emotion in this post. This is the same guy who later says he doesn't really think that PhantomS is scum. He's invoking the name of Az in excitement and encouraging all of us to follow his lead. He isn't simply riding Az's coattails because he doesn't trust himself.
This is the post of a scum pushing a speedlynch to start the day, not the post of a townie who is frustrated with the rate of play this game.
We should definitely be playing this as a three scum setup - it's the reason behind my questioning Skander.
I seriously doubt you and Cyan are both scum with him, though, which brings me back to WoD.
If you are, well played, sir.
Unvote, Vote: WoD
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
WoD was Town
WoD - 4 (Skander, Pale Mage, Cyan, DYH)
Cyan - 3 (kpaca, PhantomS, WoD)
It is now Night 3. Submit your night actions.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
Pale Mage was Town
It is now Day 4, you may begin posting.
With 5 alive, it is 3 to lynch. Get killing.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
I think the scum team has to be PhantomS and DYH. PhantomS because despite everything he's still alive and DYH by process of elimination. I do not want to believe that Kraj would do such a thing so yeah. and Cyan I don't see as scum - it's possible but I doubt it. I'd like to lynch PhantomS today.
vote: Cyan.
Despite everything? That's not even a case. This is just a lot of empty sentences.
I think either cyan or skander. I think that cyan's ridiculous comments at the end of yesterday was the most scummy though. vote: cyan
Considering the time elapse and the fact Cyan isn't dead yet, I'm coming to the conclusion he's scum.
I'm not dropping the hammer yet because we should be talking about tomorrow's scenario while we have 3 townie voices among us rather than two.
I think I was right about Skander yesterday.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
DYH-Cyan
Kpaca-Cyan
PhantomS-Cyan
PhantomS-kpaca.
So the only scenario without Cyan as scum has a PhantomS-kpaca scumteam. I probably should just hammer Cyan right now as if I don't I'm going to be the one that gets lynched, but even if Cyan is scum we're still going to lose because you guys will just lynch me tomorrow.
DYH:
What's this supposed to mean? Everyone's posted besides for Cyan who you think is scum.
However, I cannot see scum Cyan trying to hard to lynch Skander if Skander were his scum buddy.
Granted Skander's last post contained a stupidly pointless question and was quite scummy. However, I'm finding that more and more lately.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
With kpaca having said his piece, I'm fine to vote Cyan. I'll be back this afternoon.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I got a couple mislynches out of you guys, so, I'm not terribly disappointed.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Cyan was Scum
It is now Night 4. Send in your actions.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
kpaca was Town
It is now Day 5. You may begin posting.
With 3 alive, it is 2 to lynch. Get killing.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
Even allowing for the possibility that kpaca may have been scum after his actions yesterday is ludicrous. DYH has long been trying to push a mislynch on me, and while I find Skandar's play to have been erratic, it has been posted several times that this is his meta.
I will echo kpaca's sentiments. vote: DYH. I believe he's scum. If he's town, then GG Skandar.
That was clearly for show, as witnessed by my comment earlier about him being the likely NK target. The intention was to try and keep kpaca alive into today by presenting another option for the remaining scum to consider.
Where has that been stated? Skander is a solid player with no such track record that I've seen in games I've played with him.
For someone who had so much trouble throughout the game making decisions and placing votes, this is awfully convenient. The fact you don't even consider discussing today before placing a vote says a lot.
In addition, the fact I'm still alive is probably a meta tell in Skander's favor over you, too. There's little doubt in my mind he would have nightkilled me a long time ago. You have no such history with me.
Vote: PhantomS
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Going to go with gut here as I feel that even after lengthy analysis that is what it will come down to (and plus I don't want to do the analysis), and
Vote DYH
Feel free to let me know if I screwed up but please don't yank my chain if you're scum.
Yeah. Clearly.
I have rehearsal in five, but this has been stated in this thread several times, and your attempt to get Skandar to gut reaction vote me is pathetic.
How is that convincing at all? You want Skandar to read this and say "OH YEAH! I WOULD HAVE NIGHT KILLED YOU!"?
Are you serious right now?
There was no reason to discuss today's lynch, because I had my mind made up before the day started. I have had plenty of conviction in a good number of my votes, so this case is totally bunk. A good example of such a vote is my vote yesterday on your scum buddy.
This post makes me think I chose correctly. Also, nath'd.
The game is obviously over, but yes I was serious. What the hell else was I supposed to do, exactly?
For the record, though, I'd lay good money that I wouldn't be alive today if Skander had been scum. Same as if Cyan had been scum and I hadn't been his partner.
That was about the worst possible partner I could've ended up with for a two scum set-up. There was no way we were going to win this thing simply on the merit of "being alive", which you'll notice was the primary reason anyone was ever suspicious of me.
Congrats to the town, particularly kpaca who we had to kill twice.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Though it could have been under better circumstances, instead of us both replacing for people that were obvscum.
It's ironic, I was reading the thread before I replaced and was like wow, ChrisXIV and Netfinity are soooo scummy. Then I replaced and found out why.
But then, we never had any business winning anyway. A 2 scum team in a 12 person game is always hard-pressed to win. When you add in that everyone is vanilla, it's all but impossible. I'm surprised that we got this far. I was pretty discouraged/annoyed when Kraj replaced out. I don't think that he did so because he was under pressure or anything, but still, him getting replaced there made it impossible to get a mislynch that otherwise would likely have happened. Ironically, the fact that he is such an upstanding moral character worked out well there. I don't think he would have requested replacement there as scum...and everyone knows it.
I still don't know how people figured out that DYH was scum, though(other than him just being alive this long). I thought that, after the way I avoided the Skander wagon when getting WoD killed, Skander would be an easy mislynch.
We were scum together over on News, remember?
I don't want to be your *only* scum buddy because this is what happens, lol. In hindsight, killing Azrael was probably a mistake. We needed another analyst alive to get the "why are you alive" scrutiny.
Yeah; I tried to replace into this game like 5 times. I was pretty disappointed when I ended up with Chris; I had him pegged as scum based on his interactions with Azrael.
That makes two of us. I thought we played a pretty good game all things considered. The only thing I might take back I mentioned above. (Of course, then this thread would be four times as long and we'd still be on day 3! - j/k Az)
That's what I was hoping for, too, but Kpaca did that in with his little play at the end of yesterday. Props to him.
EDIT: Also, thanks to Jerubbaal for hosting the game. I'm sure this was a nightmare finding all those replacements.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
And props to Skander, who it appears was actually right about there being only two mafia in a 12-man game.
I thought, and still think, and have been told by reviewers previously, that any game where town outnumbers non-town by more than 4:1 is in favour of the Town.
Can't really say the scum played bad - it just came down to a coin toss pretty much.
On the one hand I knew it had to be two scum setup but on the other it still favoured the town. I think that two scum make it harder to put together connections but still it requires a huge amount of staying undercover since they don't have the numbers.
I knew DYH was scum because he said I was a solid player...
I've done some research on mountainous games before, as this was basically chrome mountainous, and 2-10 is the split they go by. Going 3-9 when you don't give the town power roles is stupidly biased for the scum. If we go by random actions (which a real mountainous game should be very close to, if the scum realize the scenario and play cleanly), it actually favors the scum statistically. This particular game was somewhat unfortunate, because with both Cyan and DYH as scum, making it to the endgame would be nearly impossible. I am actually extremely impressed you both managed to stay alive as long as you did, simply because your continued existence was proof enough of your scummitude. The meta definitely worked in favor of the town here.
I also tried to balance the game w/ flavor, as I believed that the Janus theme would generate at least one mislynch, and quite possibly more. There was another slight landmine in that I phrased two of the vanilla townie PMs differently (I believe it was Az and.... someone else, I should look it up) thinking that, in the instance of a claim, that might generate a mislynch as well. Most vanillas were townies, while one was a citizen and one was a townsfolk.
Biggest mistake of the scenario was actually to give the town a 1-shot vig, which I included because it's usually a fairly value-neutral role, but it's actually quite relevant in this scenario. Zas ended up w/ that, so fortunately it didn't come into play, but after watching how the game was playing out, I realized my mistake there.
Anyway, sorry this dragged out so long, but with the proliferation of power roles on this site, I really wanted to do something more heady and kind of counter-meta. Thanks for tolerating some slightly sloppy modding, and thanks all for finally bringing the thread to life at the end.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
This game was pretty irritating, for reasons previously mentioned. Not for the setup, of course - after it's discovered everyone's a mason, nobody's going to use it, so it's a moot point; heck, it probably could have been cut with little change in the game's events - but for the fight with Az, which was obnoxious. Though I did get a kick out of poking fun at him by posting his name fifty times in one post.
EDIT: I counted; it was actually 84 times, plus a few excessive uses of excrutiating. It's probably a good thing I don't play this game any more.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Cyan and DYH did very well. I think the replacement situation helped them out, actually. Netfinity probably would have been lynched had he not been repaced when he did.
Looking back I think Netfinity did well early (attacked his only scumbuddy very early on Day One). It was only towards the end of the day where his thought process started showing cracks.
Fair enough, but with the masons I think this game could have supported one scum in the masons and two outside. The masons were certain to be exposed no later than Day Two.
Props to Cyan and DYH for sure. The town nearly punted this one due to many townies not working with their teammates. I think this game is a good example of why cooperative play is so important as town. We were lucky to get away from PhantomS toward the end, although we ended up hitting WoD (sorry, dude...getting away from bad lynches is a huge hole in my game).
Interesting. I was working under the theory that Charm might have been a mason-maker based on some of the early interactions between Az and Charm and the flavor of the game.
I don't think any blame for this dragging out rests on your shoulders. Vanilla roles are the basis of the game. Although on this site folks seem to yawn at them, I've never understood it, as I love being vanilla. Voice and a vote are the only tools one should need. Night actions are fine and all, but in the end they're just shortcuts. Proper scum-hunting is done during the day in my opinion.
Props to Cyan and DYH. I think kpain deserves the nod for town MVP, but despite the outcome I think the scum team look better than we do.