I honestly don't care if "dayvigs are usually town". People who play anti-town should be dead. End of story.
No, Dayvigs are town or serial killiers. and killing a serialkiller on day one actually hurts the town, especially one that has to act as a dayvig now. Mafia should NEVER get a day kill, and at the moment, we are not SK hunting. Wrath of Dog lives. sorry. please look elsewhere.
The daykill on Cyan makes me think, is WoD a good guy for being able to daykill, or is he not because of dk'ing a townie?
much as nightvigs miss, dayvigs miss, only more obviously. WoD is pro town. one shot dayvigs are often even put into games more as a confirmed town role, with a little extra fun tacked on.
So you're saying that he's scum, right? But I see a reason why he didn't claimed his ability; because claiming it would tell the scum that he's a threat and that they should get rid of him. But then again, what he did is pretty scummy on its own. (Daykilling someone simply because he's sick of it/him.) FoS: WrathofDog
But don't you think it will be more helpful if he would've given his argument first instead of daykilling Cyan right there and then? I believe it would've been better for the town. I mean look, because of his impulsive decision, he killed a townie.
What, NO. seriously, i don;t think your scum right now. but please get your theroy straight.
Suddenly the discourse stops. A rising violin sound is heard, quickly followed by cellos and violas, trombones roar out, a tympani starts pounding, basses and tubas round out the bottom and trumpets and flutes shriek out. The denizens of Led Zeppelin land crouch down cover their ears and shut their eyes, but then, it stops. One by one they stand up and look around. What was all that? they wonder. Then someone points towards Cyan, or well, her crumpled body lying on the floor, blood seeping from its ears.
People can scream at me if they want, but I'm personally interested in getting a full-claim from WoD. I have reasons, which I'll be happy to discuss once he claims (or, if public opinion demands, I could disclose, but I'd prefer to wait).
FoS: MMoD. I'm wary about placing my vote here because I was about to vote him for that awful post, but then other people did, making me think I was wrong about finding the post so bad.
Loooolz, this sentence is officially amazing. It screams townie, but I haven't read so much double speak in one sentence in a while.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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Well, we already know he's a dayvig (or something along those lines), and I'd most like to know whether this will be a repeating thing or whether a townie honestly used a one-shot daykill to kill someone he had a personal grudge against on an informationless (as far as we know) day 1. I mean, I don't think WoD is stupid, but I really have a hard time seeing how that is pro-town play on any level.
My role related concerns are minor, and I'm not sure if they're lynch-worthy, but they just add to my nasty feeling about WoD's actions here.
The flavor of the kill makes me leery as well, but I have to wonder if MJM would actually put a daykill role in which telegraphed it being non-town.
So yeah, it's a combination of minor worries, but I definitely think it's better than any of the behavioral cases right now, even one as strong as MMoD.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
well this leads to an interesting day 1. WoD is 95% confirmed town to barn a lot of other people. Also, like ZDS I think that KeeperofZion is more newb than scum. Especially on the count of how he doesnt understand that most townies with kills unfortunatly just blast who they want dead rather than who is scum.
Also, Niv is playing the way he does as a townie, and yes although it is annoying me and seems a bit weird, its how he plays and it does not look scummy yet. The lurker attack reminds me of former games with him.
Since WoD does not have much to lose by claiming (I doubt he is more than one shot), I think he should claim. However, Jerub you do need to say why afterward.
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Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
I'd like to be enlightened on how that is a scum aligned kill flavor wise, and what you, jerubbaal, think a town kill would look like. I mean, a kill is a kill, so I don't think it will ever look friendly.
Also, while I am dissapointed in WoD's vindictive day shot, I think he's town and don't see the benefits to him claiming, though I'm all ears if someone wants to explain them.
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I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
Well, we already know he's a dayvig (or something along those lines), and I'd most like to know whether this will be a repeating thing or whether a townie honestly used a one-shot daykill to kill someone he had a personal grudge against on an informationless (as far as we know) day 1. I mean, I don't think WoD is stupid, but I really have a hard time seeing how that is pro-town play on any level.
My role related concerns are minor, and I'm not sure if they're lynch-worthy, but they just add to my nasty feeling about WoD's actions here.
The flavor of the kill makes me leery as well, but I have to wonder if MJM would actually put a daykill role in which telegraphed it being non-town.
So yeah, it's a combination of minor worries, but I definitely think it's better than any of the behavioral cases right now, even one as strong as MMoD.
With this reasoning, i feel that there is no reason whatsoever for WoD to claim anything. we do not need to know if he is a one shot or a multivig yet. that's information that would help the scum more than the town tonight, if we need to know it would be tomorrow, not today. if you have more information for us, mabye, but i see no reason on this basis for him to claim today.
although, in other news:
I'd really like to see WoD post a little more after that shot.
While I admit I don't know if WoD is town, scum, sk, or what-have-you, his decision to just kill someone day one without letting the town reach any kind of concensus is anti-town. By concensus, I mean that a better use of his ability would have been to wait until more people voted Cyan and after a claim. If the town was still of the mind that he was scum and worthy of lynch, THEN would be the time to dayvig him. Shooting blindly could just as easily have killed a PR. I'm not moving my vote until I get a promise from him that he's not going to shoot without town permission again. He can make this promise whether he's a multi-shot or a one-shot without revealing which he is, so the scum gain nothing.
Voting a probable townie for acting "anti-town" is more anti-town than any amount of sloppy vigging. You are scummy, Shadow Knight.
Agreed. Unvote: Vote Shadow Knight. In between you strategic lurking I've noticed the few posts you make happen to be scummy. This last one is the tipping point.
I am also willing to concede that Keeperofzion might be a super confused newb town, and will back off for now, but will continue to watch him carefully.
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Agreed. Unvote: Vote Shadow Knight. In between you strategic lurking I've noticed the few posts you make happen to be scummy. This last one is the tipping point.
It looks like more of the same Shadow Knight facepalmery to me.
@Skander: I still forget what was going on but I still like the case on you so don't feel bad when I unvote: Vote MMoD for being even worse.
Also, Skander, you're really good at being town in Mafia so you can really only help the town or get lynched for not helping the town (you're just so good that not being good is suspicious).
While I admit I don't know if WoD is town, scum, sk, or what-have-you, his decision to just kill someone day one without letting the town reach any kind of concensus is anti-town. By concensus, I mean that a better use of his ability would have been to wait until more people voted Cyan and after a claim. If the town was still of the mind that he was scum and worthy of lynch, THEN would be the time to dayvig him. Shooting blindly could just as easily have killed a PR. I'm not moving my vote until I get a promise from him that he's not going to shoot without town permission again. He can make this promise whether he's a multi-shot or a one-shot without revealing which he is, so the scum gain nothing.
Two things: 1. Lurking as a strategy is something I do all the time whether its in the rules or not. Doesnt work to well, but is fun
2. Lurking has never been scummy. As I have said before, when the town lynches lurkers 90% of the time the person who dies happens to be town. MTGS has such a huge policy against lurking that the chance of somebody doing it as scum to skate by is really low. Sure it happens some times, but look at what I do. I lurk in 90% of my games and I know for a fact I am not guarenteed scum if I lurk.
I've taken to calling that "The Cyan pre-emptive OMGUS technique" where he sees a player that is beginning to be suspicious of him, without yet being confident enough to vote, and votes them first, then later on when they accuse him of OMGUS and vote him, he uses that as an excuse to vote for them, claiming that THEY omgus-voted HIM.
Super hypocritical, and the same **** he tried to pull on me in Amistarian.
I was only 1-shot, and I'm sorry I used it so recklessly, yet I'm happy that Cyan is gone, and I figure that hey, it'll probably save us some mislynches.
I've taken to calling that "The Cyan pre-emptive OMGUS technique" where he sees a player that is beginning to be suspicious of him, without yet being confident enough to vote, and votes them first, then later on when they accuse him of OMGUS and vote him, he uses that as an excuse to vote for them, claiming that THEY omgus-voted HIM.
Super hypocritical, and the same **** he tried to pull on me in Amistarian.
I was only 1-shot, and I'm sorry I used it so recklessly, yet I'm happy that Cyan is gone, and I figure that hey, it'll probably save us some mislynches
So you're saying you saw a behavior pattern that reminded you of a town Cyan, and daykilled him anyway.
is not even the word for it. But I still can't find you scum. I've certainly wished I had a daykill before so I could get rid of people I didn't want to listen to any longer...:D
It looks like more of the same Shadow Knight facepalmery to me.
@Skander: I still forget what was going on but I still like the case on you so don't feel bad when I unvote: Vote MMoD for being even worse.
Also, Skander, you're really good at being town in Mafia so you can really only help the town or get lynched for not helping the town (you're just so good that not being good is suspicious).
Wow Seppel. You actually make me feel good about being voted. But I still would like your response when you get a chance.
I've taken to calling that "The Cyan pre-emptive OMGUS technique" where he sees a player that is beginning to be suspicious of him, without yet being confident enough to vote, and votes them first, then later on when they accuse him of OMGUS and vote him, he uses that as an excuse to vote for them, claiming that THEY omgus-voted HIM.
Super hypocritical, and the same **** he tried to pull on me in Amistarian.
I was only 1-shot, and I'm sorry I used it so recklessly, yet I'm happy that Cyan is gone, and I figure that hey, it'll probably save us some mislynches.
Sorry again.
(not *really* sorry)
You killed him because it was the same move he pulled on you in Amistarian...where he was town?
On Shadowknight: I don't think this is a scum move to try and get WoD killed (especially since he says he'll take the vote off if WoD agrees not to shoot without consensus), it feels more like annoyed town.
And i do mean super. First weekend before college is aweosme. Beer pong ftw. Did I mention the basic apartment cable here has NBa TV AND i Love nnba? yeah. Any way, I don't think WOD is scum, and I do think SK is, even whiel drunk. So it must be a good tell.
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How do you know he does not have much to lose by claiming?
Content is overrated anyway
I doubt he has anything to lose because as I said, he is likely a one shot. Do I know this for certain? no, but the town always wants information, so its a gamble worth taking in my opinion
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Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
I doubt he has anything to lose because as I said, he is likely a one shot. Do I know this for certain? no, but the town always wants information, so its a gamble worth taking in my opinion
I actually got clarification from MJM on a crappily written role pm and I lost my role related reason for caring. So the rest is really just my misgivings about any sort of town rationale, and we can wait on the flavor angle and see if there actually is a pattern. Daykill vig is so much nicer than nightkill, because it basically saves the town an entire day once investigation roles becomes relevant, and this is really a badly squandered opportunity. I guess it surprises me that Cyan being Cyan really inspires this degree of hatred (Lame as hell, WoD).
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
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I think WoD already claimed a 1-shot, which tells me that he is town. And after his explaining of what Cyan did to him in Amistarian (if it is true), I see the reason why he said that we would be better off without Cyan.
Shadow Knight, on the other hand, is leaning on WoD's daykill to be anti-town and wants to make it certain that he would be controlled (when he said that WoD should wait for town permission before shooting), which does make him sound like scum.
The rest of this post may be moot, but I'm posting my thoughts regardless.
And yes, the alignment of the target matters a lot if the vig is firing unilaterally. A vig who is a good analyst and can sniff out scum and shoot accurately can sometimes outvalue a cop, who can be fooled by Godfathers, Millers, Untargetables, etc. A vig who is just randomly firing into the crowd is no better than a Serial Killer (see WOLG in High School Mafia). A vig who is a BAD analyst may as well be mafia aligned. They don't have the information needed to make their role successful but they shoot anyway. (Please note, I am not saying that WoD is a bad analyst, he can be quite good sometimes, but there are damn few people I'm comfortable with shooting unilaterally- Azrael is the only one I can think of right now.)
With that said, my current suspects are keeperofzion, who is apparently not reading the thread or blatantly misrepresenting what I said, and jerrubbal, who calls me scummy and doesn't vote (my favorite scumtell btw). I'll go back and read them in a bit. Right now I owe Legions my attention.
Actually, I think its QUITE relevant, as that was the reason I voted him, which spawned the votes on me. Rant about that later this post. Ok, I'll add you to the list of suspects. Feel better?
@Keeper- is there some reason you feel that the town should have no say in a dayvig's targets? Why is asking a killing role to give his targets time to claim, and possibly prove their innocence scummy?
@jerrubbal- so you agree that unilaterally killing cyan for non-alignment reasons is bad for the town, yet you call me scummy for it??
@ZDS- would you have used a one-shot dayvig ability on day one on a player who you didn't really think was scummy, just annoying you? Does that not seem like a waste of the town's resources?
@Everyone voting me/pushing my wagon- Is it ok to pursue personal vendettas before win conditions? WoD admits that he didn't have a scum read on Cyan before firing, he was merely shooting because he doesn't like Cyan's playstyle. This is only the second game I've played with Seppel, yet I've seem multiple players whine about his playstyle. Does he generally get vigged night 1? My point is that I play this game to win. That means my win condition come first. If I do something (playstyle wise) that annoys you, PM me or post something in mafia discussion after the game and we'll discuss it. If I get vigged, it had better be becasue the vig thought I was behaving as a scum would, not because he doesn't like my avatar or the way I play. The fact that it was a dayvig that fired annoyed me even more because in that situation, the target could have been given a chance to claim and wasn't. At any rate, what's done is done. He's claimed it was only a one shot ability which is the same thing as saying he won't do it again (this game at least), and that's good enough for me.
@Seppel- are you reading the same thread I am? Where did I become defeatist? I'm not sure which word you're unclear on the meaning of, "defeatist", or "moot" perhaps?
And i do mean super. First weekend before college is aweosme. Beer pong ftw. Did I mention the basic apartment cable here has NBa TV AND i Love nnba? yeah. Any way, I don't think WOD is scum, and I do think SK is, even whiel drunk. So it must be a good tell.
I think that CC bit these people, and now they are turning into CC. He's like a werewolf.
Anyway, on a more serious note, SK has been snowballing faster than, well, a snowball. VOTE SHADOW KNIGHT
@Everyone voting me/pushing my wagon- Is it ok to pursue personal vendettas before win conditions? WoD admits that he didn't have a scum read on Cyan before firing, he was merely shooting because he doesn't like Cyan's playstyle. This is only the second game I've played with Seppel, yet I've seem multiple players whine about his playstyle. Does he generally get vigged night 1? My point is that I play this game to win. That means my win condition come first. If I do something (playstyle wise) that annoys you, PM me or post something in mafia discussion after the game and we'll discuss it. If I get vigged, it had better be becasue the vig thought I was behaving as a scum would, not because he doesn't like my avatar or the way I play. The fact that it was a dayvig that fired annoyed me even more because in that situation, the target could have been given a chance to claim and wasn't. At any rate, what's done is done. He's claimed it was only a one shot ability which is the same thing as saying he won't do it again (this game at least), and that's good enough for me.
None of this matters. It's apparent that WoD made a bad play by vindictively daykilling Cyan. It doesn't mean he's scum. You trying to claim you voted him for theory reasons rings hollow and I think you are trying to backtrack your way out of this now. unvote; vote Shadow Knight.
I don't like the wagon on SK, and I still want to go after Niv. Maybe MMoD, just for the sake of making him stop lurking.
I think SK's opinion is honestly valid, even if I disagree with it. WoD's actions don't makes much sense, and I personally hate it when people use their vigshots for random or non-game reasons. I don't share his "he's anti-town, so lets lynch the townie" mentality, but I don't find it suspicious.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
The rest of this post may be moot, but I'm posting my thoughts regardless.
And yes, the alignment of the target matters a lot if the vig is firing unilaterally. A vig who is a good analyst and can sniff out scum and shoot accurately can sometimes outvalue a cop, who can be fooled by Godfathers, Millers, Untargetables, etc. A vig who is just randomly firing into the crowd is no better than a Serial Killer (see WOLG in High School Mafia). A vig who is a BAD analyst may as well be mafia aligned. They don't have the information needed to make their role successful but they shoot anyway. (Please note, I am not saying that WoD is a bad analyst, he can be quite good sometimes, but there are damn few people I'm comfortable with shooting unilaterally- Azrael is the only one I can think of right now.)
Does this make the player any less town? regardless of how bad the vig is, they are still a member of the town. (exceptions exsist, i recall a role in Bloodmoon where the vig was an unknowing miller hitlist vig) do not knowingly lynch townies, regardless of how bad they are.
SK's further posts are not helping as well. really liking my vote on him.
also, little access for a cupple days, the flight is tomorrow at 5:40 am
I see where SK is coming from complaining about WoD. It is counter intuitive to waste such an ability on someone who had little chance on being scum (or the same chance as any of you, all other things being equal). As I posted previously the same situation came up in Tales of the Fantastic. In that thread, Cyan's action wasn't even blinked at. I wondered why then and I wondered why now.
To me, and correct me if I'm wrong, but WoD I think was making sure he got off his ability. If he dies night 1 and then we as town lose that abilitiy. Yes it was reckless, yes it was less than best, but he did it and as Kpaca said Lynching him for bad play is not good.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
The people on the replacement list that I contacted did not respond, so yes, you are still in the game.
Excellent. I'd PM'd a mod here and asked if he could inform you about my suspension and consider it akin to V/LA as it was only a week.
Quick Summary:
The Chris wagon was a load of rubbish.
The Skander suspicions have some merit.
Pale Mage being dismissed as town is puzzling. Not that I think one way or the other about him. I've never played with him, so I can't say whether he's playing town according to his meta. He's all but disappeared now.
WoD daykilling Cyan for petty reasons is sad. Yes, it was an anti-town play. No, I don't think he's scum.
The wagon on SK is building momentum, but I disagree with it. I don't find Shadow Knight scummy just because he disagrees with the daykill.
@jerrubbal- so you agree that unilaterally killing cyan for non-alignment reasons is bad for the town, yet you call me scummy for it??
@Everyone voting me/pushing my wagon- Is it ok to pursue personal vendettas before win conditions? WoD admits that he didn't have a scum read on Cyan before firing, he was merely shooting because he doesn't like Cyan's playstyle. This is only the second game I've played with Seppel, yet I've seem multiple players whine about his playstyle. Does he generally get vigged night 1? My point is that I play this game to win. That means my win condition come first. If I do something (playstyle wise) that annoys you, PM me or post something in mafia discussion after the game and we'll discuss it. If I get vigged, it had better be becasue the vig thought I was behaving as a scum would, not because he doesn't like my avatar or the way I play. The fact that it was a dayvig that fired annoyed me even more because in that situation, the target could have been given a chance to claim and wasn't. At any rate, what's done is done. He's claimed it was only a one shot ability which is the same thing as saying he won't do it again (this game at least), and that's good enough for me.
It's been said about twenty times now, but bad play =/= scummy play. WoD actually made one of the most asinine moves I think I've ever personally encountered in mafia, but ATM I'm convinced he actually does just hate Cyan that much. He has a rationale that seems consistent and possible in a town mindset, even if it blows. Your inability to acknowledge this is pretty consistent with a general scum pattern of really pushing to punish stupid townie play early on.
I find it extremely difficult to imagine a townie writing the bolded sentence above. You're practially saying that you voted him not because you thought he was scum, but because you thought he was stupid. Townies lynch people for being scum, scum lynch people for being stupid.
IMHO we need a votecount, mod. I'd rather not vote until we know how far SK is, but I'm happy to if we need it to move to a claim.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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No, Dayvigs are town or serial killiers. and killing a serialkiller on day one actually hurts the town, especially one that has to act as a dayvig now. Mafia should NEVER get a day kill, and at the moment, we are not SK hunting. Wrath of Dog lives. sorry. please look elsewhere.
much as nightvigs miss, dayvigs miss, only more obviously. WoD is pro town. one shot dayvigs are often even put into games more as a confirmed town role, with a little extra fun tacked on.
NO.
What, NO. seriously, i don;t think your scum right now. but please get your theroy straight.
interesting. what makes you feel he is scum, and not newbtown?
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anyone else wondering how draygn_mage is voting?
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see previous post
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Unvote
Loooolz, this sentence is officially amazing. It screams townie, but I haven't read so much double speak in one sentence in a while.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
My role related concerns are minor, and I'm not sure if they're lynch-worthy, but they just add to my nasty feeling about WoD's actions here.
The flavor of the kill makes me leery as well, but I have to wonder if MJM would actually put a daykill role in which telegraphed it being non-town.
So yeah, it's a combination of minor worries, but I definitely think it's better than any of the behavioral cases right now, even one as strong as MMoD.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
Also, Niv is playing the way he does as a townie, and yes although it is annoying me and seems a bit weird, its how he plays and it does not look scummy yet. The lurker attack reminds me of former games with him.
Since WoD does not have much to lose by claiming (I doubt he is more than one shot), I think he should claim. However, Jerub you do need to say why afterward.
Also, while I am dissapointed in WoD's vindictive day shot, I think he's town and don't see the benefits to him claiming, though I'm all ears if someone wants to explain them.
With this reasoning, i feel that there is no reason whatsoever for WoD to claim anything. we do not need to know if he is a one shot or a multivig yet. that's information that would help the scum more than the town tonight, if we need to know it would be tomorrow, not today. if you have more information for us, mabye, but i see no reason on this basis for him to claim today.
although, in other news:
I'd really like to see WoD post a little more after that shot.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
I'm a bit wary of keeperofzion, but I still have mmod in front of him.
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
Agreed. Unvote: Vote Shadow Knight. In between you strategic lurking I've noticed the few posts you make happen to be scummy. This last one is the tipping point.
I am also willing to concede that Keeperofzion might be a super confused newb town, and will back off for now, but will continue to watch him carefully.
It looks like more of the same Shadow Knight facepalmery to me.
@Skander: I still forget what was going on but I still like the case on you so don't feel bad when I unvote: Vote MMoD for being even worse.
Also, Skander, you're really good at being town in Mafia so you can really only help the town or get lynched for not helping the town (you're just so good that not being good is suspicious).
you know what, looking back, what diffrence would it made if he hit scum, it's still "anti-town play" by what you discribe here:
UnVote, Vote Shadow Knight.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Lurk, no, but contentlessness, yes.
How do you know he does not have much to lose by claiming?
You say this as if he hasn't already agreed to that condition.
I've actually found that policy lynches are advocated by townies as often, if not more often, than by the scum.
More votes for creampuffeater, less for Shadow Knight.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
I've taken to calling that "The Cyan pre-emptive OMGUS technique" where he sees a player that is beginning to be suspicious of him, without yet being confident enough to vote, and votes them first, then later on when they accuse him of OMGUS and vote him, he uses that as an excuse to vote for them, claiming that THEY omgus-voted HIM.
Super hypocritical, and the same **** he tried to pull on me in Amistarian.
I was only 1-shot, and I'm sorry I used it so recklessly, yet I'm happy that Cyan is gone, and I figure that hey, it'll probably save us some mislynches.
Sorry again.
(not *really* sorry)
So you're saying you saw a behavior pattern that reminded you of a town Cyan, and daykilled him anyway.
is not even the word for it. But I still can't find you scum. I've certainly wished I had a daykill before so I could get rid of people I didn't want to listen to any longer...:D
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Wow Seppel. You actually make me feel good about being voted. But I still would like your response when you get a chance.
You killed him because it was the same move he pulled on you in Amistarian...where he was town?
On Shadowknight: I don't think this is a scum move to try and get WoD killed (especially since he says he'll take the vote off if WoD agrees not to shoot without consensus), it feels more like annoyed town.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
I forgot what I was talking about , but I 'm a little einebreiated wright now so you'll have to get back to me ont his later.
CC? stop hacking peoples accounts.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
And i do mean super. First weekend before college is aweosme. Beer pong ftw. Did I mention the basic apartment cable here has NBa TV AND i Love nnba? yeah. Any way, I don't think WOD is scum, and I do think SK is, even whiel drunk. So it must be a good tell.
Content is overrated anyway
I doubt he has anything to lose because as I said, he is likely a one shot. Do I know this for certain? no, but the town always wants information, so its a gamble worth taking in my opinion
i think he claimed 1 shot.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Shadow Knight does smell like opportunistic scum.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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Shadow Knight, on the other hand, is leaning on WoD's daykill to be anti-town and wants to make it certain that he would be controlled (when he said that WoD should wait for town permission before shooting), which does make him sound like scum.
vote Shadow Knight
The rest of this post may be moot, but I'm posting my thoughts regardless.
And yes, the alignment of the target matters a lot if the vig is firing unilaterally. A vig who is a good analyst and can sniff out scum and shoot accurately can sometimes outvalue a cop, who can be fooled by Godfathers, Millers, Untargetables, etc. A vig who is just randomly firing into the crowd is no better than a Serial Killer (see WOLG in High School Mafia). A vig who is a BAD analyst may as well be mafia aligned. They don't have the information needed to make their role successful but they shoot anyway. (Please note, I am not saying that WoD is a bad analyst, he can be quite good sometimes, but there are damn few people I'm comfortable with shooting unilaterally- Azrael is the only one I can think of right now.)
With that said, my current suspects are keeperofzion, who is apparently not reading the thread or blatantly misrepresenting what I said, and jerrubbal, who calls me scummy and doesn't vote (my favorite scumtell btw). I'll go back and read them in a bit. Right now I owe Legions my attention.
Shadow Knight continues down his standard path, now turning into a defeatist. Classic.
@Keeper- is there some reason you feel that the town should have no say in a dayvig's targets? Why is asking a killing role to give his targets time to claim, and possibly prove their innocence scummy?
@jerrubbal- so you agree that unilaterally killing cyan for non-alignment reasons is bad for the town, yet you call me scummy for it??
@ZDS- would you have used a one-shot dayvig ability on day one on a player who you didn't really think was scummy, just annoying you? Does that not seem like a waste of the town's resources?
@Everyone voting me/pushing my wagon- Is it ok to pursue personal vendettas before win conditions? WoD admits that he didn't have a scum read on Cyan before firing, he was merely shooting because he doesn't like Cyan's playstyle. This is only the second game I've played with Seppel, yet I've seem multiple players whine about his playstyle. Does he generally get vigged night 1? My point is that I play this game to win. That means my win condition come first. If I do something (playstyle wise) that annoys you, PM me or post something in mafia discussion after the game and we'll discuss it. If I get vigged, it had better be becasue the vig thought I was behaving as a scum would, not because he doesn't like my avatar or the way I play. The fact that it was a dayvig that fired annoyed me even more because in that situation, the target could have been given a chance to claim and wasn't. At any rate, what's done is done. He's claimed it was only a one shot ability which is the same thing as saying he won't do it again (this game at least), and that's good enough for me.
I think that CC bit these people, and now they are turning into CC.
He's like a werewolf.
Anyway, on a more serious note, SK has been snowballing faster than, well, a snowball. VOTE SHADOW KNIGHT
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
None of this matters. It's apparent that WoD made a bad play by vindictively daykilling Cyan. It doesn't mean he's scum. You trying to claim you voted him for theory reasons rings hollow and I think you are trying to backtrack your way out of this now. unvote; vote Shadow Knight.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Why aren't we paying attention to MMoD?
We did. Then SK stole the spotlight.
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
No, which I'm sure is why people are voting you. There was no need to attack someone who is probably town because you disliked their play.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
I think SK's opinion is honestly valid, even if I disagree with it. WoD's actions don't makes much sense, and I personally hate it when people use their vigshots for random or non-game reasons. I don't share his "he's anti-town, so lets lynch the townie" mentality, but I don't find it suspicious.
Does this make the player any less town? regardless of how bad the vig is, they are still a member of the town. (exceptions exsist, i recall a role in Bloodmoon where the vig was an unknowing miller hitlist vig) do not knowingly lynch townies, regardless of how bad they are.
SK's further posts are not helping as well. really liking my vote on him.
also, little access for a cupple days, the flight is tomorrow at 5:40 am
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Lynching somebody for scummy play is good.
I see where SK is coming from complaining about WoD. It is counter intuitive to waste such an ability on someone who had little chance on being scum (or the same chance as any of you, all other things being equal). As I posted previously the same situation came up in Tales of the Fantastic. In that thread, Cyan's action wasn't even blinked at. I wondered why then and I wondered why now.
To me, and correct me if I'm wrong, but WoD I think was making sure he got off his ability. If he dies night 1 and then we as town lose that abilitiy. Yes it was reckless, yes it was less than best, but he did it and as Kpaca said Lynching him for bad play is not good.
12-11? I'm losing track
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The people on the replacement list that I contacted did not respond, so yes, you are still in the game.
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || sk: LookingforReality (Copycat) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || survivor: matjoeman (Anarchist) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || town: kops (Anarchist) |||
Mafia stats
Excellent. I'd PM'd a mod here and asked if he could inform you about my suspension and consider it akin to V/LA as it was only a week.
Quick Summary:
The Chris wagon was a load of rubbish.
The Skander suspicions have some merit.
Pale Mage being dismissed as town is puzzling. Not that I think one way or the other about him. I've never played with him, so I can't say whether he's playing town according to his meta. He's all but disappeared now.
WoD daykilling Cyan for petty reasons is sad. Yes, it was an anti-town play. No, I don't think he's scum.
The wagon on SK is building momentum, but I disagree with it. I don't find Shadow Knight scummy just because he disagrees with the daykill.
Best Celeb Gossip Ever: http://www.twitter-tracker.com/
Currently building: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=170776
Now a great discussion thread!
Amazing new card: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=184683
Oh? I must have missed something. I'll read over the last couple pages again.
Best Celeb Gossip Ever: http://www.twitter-tracker.com/
Currently building: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=170776
Now a great discussion thread!
Amazing new card: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=184683
Hard to explain completely - I'll go through his posts at some point to try to explain in greater depths.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
It's been said about twenty times now, but bad play =/= scummy play. WoD actually made one of the most asinine moves I think I've ever personally encountered in mafia, but ATM I'm convinced he actually does just hate Cyan that much. He has a rationale that seems consistent and possible in a town mindset, even if it blows. Your inability to acknowledge this is pretty consistent with a general scum pattern of really pushing to punish stupid townie play early on.
I find it extremely difficult to imagine a townie writing the bolded sentence above. You're practially saying that you voted him not because you thought he was scum, but because you thought he was stupid. Townies lynch people for being scum, scum lynch people for being stupid.
IMHO we need a votecount, mod. I'd rather not vote until we know how far SK is, but I'm happy to if we need it to move to a claim.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
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