Hypocracy is suspicious though, as it shows that your statements are not coherent and that you really dont know what you are saying. It also allows you to get away with sounding scummy. Also, yes, by saying you are not vanilla you have given info to the scum. Is it a big attack? no, it is the truth however. Also, OMGUS is being used way too much to mean something it isnt. Voting me with reasons isnt OMGUS, however going "No, your a hypocrat VOTE CPE" is a OMGUS, so go ahead and vote me if you wish.
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Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
RE: Bilbro' Vs Creampuffeater
What irked me most was that he didn't actually claim, he just kinda hinted at it. Whilst Bilbro's reasons are poor - ie 'I don't believe there would be a vanilla in this game' - there are also far better reasons to vote wuffles.
Quite why Bilbro chose to vote on this one , I'm not sure.
Creampuffeater does seem to have it right - it is a scummy thing to do, hiwever I do think there are more concrete things to go on.
Rereading both soon...ish...
your reasons are here:
[/color][/font]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#da0a0e]wow. there it is.[/COLOR][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#da0a0e]Rubbish. The Fos -> vote upgrade is a scumell in my book. What was this reason?
[/COLOR][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#da0a0e]again, poor defence. 'oh he only attacked me over a minor thing!' you miss the fact that you then confrmed his suspiciouns, hence why Sb kept the vote.
[/COLOR][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#da0a0e]fence sitting.[/COLOR][/FONT][font=Comic Sans MS][color=#da0a0e]
you were waffling. Trying to seem like your posting a lot, when not saying anything helpful.
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=black]So basically, you voted him because he was being aggressive.[/COLOR][/FONT]
[font=Comic Sans MS][color=#da0a0e]
I don't like this. HE DID NOT CLAIM. He just tried to hint he was vanilla. I think you need to stop barning.
Being aggressive was one of my reasons, but it was far from the only one. And we have been over this before I was not fence sitting on AKid, I was waiting for him to post a response. But alas I am tired of beating a dead horse. Which is pretty much what you are forcing me to do, by making me respond to the same things time and time again. Really you don't have anything on me except for the arguments that Stormblind came up with. You are pretty much barning him and attacking me over issues that have been beaten to death.
Also Wuffles pretty much claimed vanilla. It wasn't an official claim, but it read like a claim to me.[/font][/COLOR]
I am "trying to sweep this under the rug" because it is WEAK, and hardly a valid reason to be going after me. My choice have been quite carefully explained, thus far. The only thing a vanilla townie HAS is his vote. He should always be using it, even if it isn't going to lead to a lynch. Generating pressure and discussion is a valid reason for dropping a vote on someone. But so is voting someone because you have good reason for thinking they were noob-scum false claiming.
And as for where we should go from here, well, I have no idea. I need to re-read. But I haven't gotten around to it yet. If I were, though, Toastboy would probably be the one I'm looking at right now. The last post he made served no purpose other than to echo your points.
So if not me, then where would you go after this, phagy?
OK, yes I'm following a lot of Stromblind's reasoning, because they seem right to me.
Tbh, I don't want to go over this again either, there aren't any new arguments or defences, thinking about it, you're right there.
However, Wuffles did not pretty much claim. If he had, I would be looking at this in a whole new light - the fact is, he just tried to drop it in. I don't like how you're trying to make this good.
Reread the pink paragraph. It pretty clearly states that he is acting the way he is because he is a vanilla townie. Therefore he seems to be claiming vanilla townie.
Ok, I agree with toast here. Wuffles diddnt claim, but hint. I think what we need to do is stop argueing over it, wait for Wuffles to come back and clarify. If he claimed, we continue our argueing. We are getting nothing done without the facts.
@Guardman: Until somebody says : I AM TOWNIE (or the like), dont percieve it as a claim. It may not actually be a claim but a hypothetical.
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Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
I wouldn't say that wuffles claimed vanilla, as much as he just breadcrumbed vanilla. He made a post that he can go back to and reference in at least two ways. I actually find it rather scummy that he did so. On one hand, he can later claim an ability (if, for instance, he finds out that all townies have abilities) and say that his post wasn't a claim, but just a general statement. Sort of a "well vanilla townies only have their vote, so they have to use it all they can, and you wouldn't find them scummy for it, so you shouldn't think I'm scummy for it" kind of thing. On the other hand, he can go back and say "look I'm vanilla, I breadcrumbed it WAAAAAAY back there... and obviously, scum wouldn't breadcrumb being vanilla before we even lynch anyone and know whether or not there *are* vanillas in this game." So now that he's decided to put it out there, I'd like him to at least clarify the comment. Is wuffles claiming vanilla or his he merely making a statement about vanilla townies in general?
Simply put, I was ensuring that nobody was going to just arbitrarily get me to claim range and then hinge my hopes for survival on a WOW power role claim. I don't want to be judged by my claim, only my play. Which, I feel, is nowhere near suspicious enough to be worthy of the attention it's gained so far from toast and his happy little band (which I'm sure I'll be able to name once I re-read this)
I'm sorry, it's 5AM here, and this is the first time I've had to myself for two days, pretty much.
Simply put, I was ensuring that nobody was going to just arbitrarily get me to claim range and then hinge my hopes for survival on a WOW power role claim. I don't want to be judged by my claim, only my play. Which, I feel, is nowhere near suspicious enough to be worthy of the attention it's gained so far from toast and his happy little band (which I'm sure I'll be able to name once I re-read this)
Could you give us some flavour?
and why did you claim in the off-handed way you did?
Eco he said that he claimed early so that he was judged by his play and not his claim, which is a move I find to be fine. As for the claim / Wuffles thing: He wasnt that scummy, he claimed vanilla, can we please move on to better targets, namely Bil and Guard.
@DYH: I dont always lurk, just 90% of the time. (Being in only 1 game helps my activity).
@Everybody: I may be slightly inactive as this is AP testing week and although I am only taking 1 test, the week also includes a final, 4 inclass essays, and multiple tests, so I will probably be studying a lot.
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Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
But I do agree with Eco, why did you claim in such a cryptic way?
1.) UnFoS? Really? ...
2.) It wasn't really that cryptic at all. It was there in plain sight, which is why it was caught on to really quickly. It also seems to be his intent that people pick up on it, so I'm willing to look elsewhere.
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Sorry, spent 48 hours in the hospital, just starting to recover now, but a quick interjection on a few topics:
@Guardman: Oh dear jesus. IF we got a vig, surely you can see that Guardman is more suspicious then SK.
@Bilbroxain: Something doesnt smell right here. Ill attempt some form of pbpa tonight i suppose. See what i see.
@Wuffles: Honestly, i got him pretty solidly pegged as town at this point. Suits how he plays, and just... well, FEELS right to me considering what i know of him. *Shrug*
Top 3 Scum list: Bilbroxain, Akid, Guardman.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
so....you think it was a good idea for Wuffles to claim vanilla, and that this magically absolves him of suspicion in your eyes.
...What?
And why then ask the question if you follow his reasoning?
I unFoSed because I understand why he claimed vanilla when he did it and why he did it.
Also I wasn't that suspicious of Wuffles before him claiming vanilla. My suspicion came from him claiming vanilla. Therefore since I am no longer suspicious about him for that, I am not really suspicious of him anymore.
The only thing I don't understand is why he didn't just come out and say that he was vanilla, instead of tip-toeing around it.
Going back to my original guns; your flip-flop on Wuffles here with the added bonus of agreeing and questioning in the same post really makes me think you're just trying to avoid making anyone upset with you. It's having the opposite effect.
@SB: I'm not sure I get why you're pushing this vig idea so hard. In a mini, there's not much margin for error, so I certainly don't want a vig to be out whacking anyone unclaimed.
Well, here are the results of my re-read. The "case" on me seems to boil down to three points.
1. I wagoned Akid, 100 posts in, as the 4th vote.
2. I voted SK for shoddy reasons.
3. I claimed vanilla when the pressure was mounting.
Okay.
1. I jumped on the AK wagon, yes. Pressure wagons are the best way to start a day-start. Pretty much the only way, aside from a mass-claim. (One of these...has a future, Mr. Anderson...and one of them does not... :p). AK was a good target for this. I mean, I hardly think the results of this could be denied at this point - this game has had a whole lot of excellent discussion already, and a lot of it stems from that. I stand by my behavior here.
I refuse to believe that there is any significant difference between L-3 and L-4, either. Because, there isn't. I didn't want to push him to claim range. I certainly wouldn't try to get him lynched simply because he was being rude to SB. (which, granted, I think happens far too often in mafia games, but I mostly blame Loran for that, the bastard ) And furthermore, I didn't even notice the number of votes on him at the time.
2.
Quote from Toastboy »
You are also implying that you were voting for him because he was a noob.
I was never implying that I was voting him for being noob, only for being noob SCUM. Don't misrepresent me, I was quite clear on this.
My line of thought goes "okay, this guy's playing in his first two games. He's got pressure on him in this game, and as a new player, first time being mafia can be very daunting. Since he rapidly came under suspicion in this game, he may well have panicked, and gone straight for a false-claim based off something he saw in the other game he's in."
Yes, it proved to be wrong, as SK is actually Dragyn_Mage, a long-time mafia player. I'm pretty sure he's been around almost since MTGS started running mafia games. But that's my reasoning.
3. I'm sick and tired of the "okay, I don't really see the case on this guy, but let's push him to claim range and decide his fate based on that" mentality that pervades so many MTGS games these days. That's the reason why there are NEVER black and white vanillas in my mafia games. Because too many people on this site judge people on how useful their role PM is, rather than how useful their PLAY is.
So I claimed my (lack of a) role, in order to make people sit back and judge me for my play, and not for my role. I'm glad that it seems to be working.
I'm happy to answer any further questions people have about this, but for now, does anyone actually need me to reveal my flavor? Obviously, I don't mind doing so, but I don't really see a need.But in order to stopper any doubts involving me not wanting to claim so that I can wait and see, I'll say that my flavor is...somewhat roguish. Very Xyre-esque.
It's still not colorless, and has no color. That's a paradox. So either you're a Zen master or an idiot, I'll assume the Zen master for sake of argument. This card will have no paradoxes because it has a clear paradox. Deep stuff man.
He has, however, yet to explain why voting for a player who claimed an ability that could confirm him as town without giving said player a chance to prove it is a good idea.
However, upon review of the thread: unvote, vote Bilvroxain.
I am still keeping an eye on Wuffles.
@SB: I'm not sure I get why you're pushing this vig idea so hard. In a mini, there's not much margin for error, so I certainly don't want a vig to be out whacking anyone unclaimed.
Admittedly, i may be pushing a bit hard on that. Suffice to say, at this point, we have bilbroxain and we guardman as the primary suspects. Im honestly not disagreeing with either at this point, Bilbrox seems a very solid lead for scum, but guardmans consistant bad posting keeps my vote on him.
On another note: AKID. He hasnt posted since the 30th so consider me annoyed. At this point, i feel this distinct urge to vote for akid, but... there's not that much THERE. His lack of posting causes him to slip from peoples minds and just... vanish. Suffice to say, im quite annoyed.
@ Xyre: Could we get a prod on him? It HAS been 5 days since his last post...
EDIT: Akid has received the prod and promises activity, which I'll watch for while considering replacement. Vote count coming soon, after I've dealt with my various papers and responsibilities.
On Bilbro', he seems very agressive, using blunt rhetorical questions and the like, but again, that seems to me just part of his play.
The flavour-based arguments are interesting though... when he was called on the first one, he said 'I didn't vote because it wasn't a big deal', and the second time he gets confused about Guardman. He seems to be trying to incite suspicion without actually making a move himself.
when he said this:
It seems supicious.
His only 2 non-random votes were on Akid, the original wagon, kept after he came back with that big post, and Wuffles - both of which blended with the crowd.
Where was I confused about gaurdman? I certainitly don't remember being confused about Gaurdman.
Why does it seem suspicious, if you don't mind me asking?
Blending with crowd? I saw him claim vanilla, and I moved to call him out on it, the only other post related to it being between his claim and the time I got on. I understand the vote on Akid being construed as an attempt to "blend in", but the one on Wuffles? No. I was calling him out on something I thought scummy, which is claiming when there is no pressure at all, which really only makes sense on millers.
Now, further on Wuffles: I think I can understand where his line of thought is coming from. And, as me attempting to judge his play, I can see nothing really scummy besides the needless claim. So I will Unvote Wuffles, especially since I am partially guilty of that mentality.
He has, however, yet to explain why voting for a player who claimed an ability that could confirm him as town without giving said player a chance to prove it is a good idea.
Did you read his claim?
He's saying that he only has one chance at it, and if he gets roleblocked, that the chance is gone (I'm not wrong here, right?)
Do you see why that claim sounds so ridiculously false, now? There are simply too many ways that someone, almost anyone could screw up. With the leeway his claim would have brought him, could anyone that wanted to test his claim really want him dead, even if he were to come back with "umm, sorry guyz! I got RB'D! I still got a free pass though, right?"
I wasn't really very keen on letting that eventuality occur.
He's saying that he only has one chance at it, and if he gets roleblocked, that the chance is gone (I'm not wrong here, right?)
Do you see why that claim sounds so ridiculously false, now? There are simply too many ways that someone, almost anyone could screw up. With the leeway his claim would have brought him, could anyone that wanted to test his claim really want him dead, even if he were to come back with "umm, sorry guyz! I got RB'D! I still got a free pass though, right?"
I wasn't really very keen on letting that eventuality occur.
I don't actually recall SK claiming that...
(although AE did in crackhouse, so you may have the two confused)
If SK could clarify?
I still don't see why you wouldn't let him attempt to test it. If there was a RB, we could see if anyone else got RBed and figure things out from there.
Going back to my original guns; your flip-flop on Wuffles here with the added bonus of agreeing and questioning in the same post really makes me think you're just trying to avoid making anyone upset with you. It's having the opposite effect.
Actually I am wondering why he claimed in a way that confused peaple if he was actually claiming.
And so DYH am I not allowed to ask questions or for clarification of peaple that I agree with on something or believe? I don't think that is a good reason at all. I see you ask for clarification from peaple you agree with all the time.
Going back to my original guns; your flip-flop on Wuffles here with the added bonus of agreeing and questioning in the same post really makes me think you're just trying to avoid making anyone upset with you. It's having the opposite effect.
Actually I am wondering why he claimed in a way that confused peaple if he was actually claiming.
And so DYH am I not allowed to ask questions or for clarification of peaple that I agree with on something or believe? I don't think that is a good reason at all. I see you ask for clarification from peaple you agree with all the time.
You seem to think the only reason I'm voting you is because of that. You're mistaken. You might recall that I've been on your case, well, for pretty much this entire game.
Now, could you possible be any scummier in the response above? Of course you're allowed to ask for clarifications and questions, Mr. Straw Man, and yes I do it too, Mr. Deflection, thanks for asking.
I understand what you're asking him to clarify, but let's review:
Reread the pink paragraph. It pretty clearly states that he is acting the way he is because he is a vanilla townie. Therefore he seems to be claiming vanilla townie.
Here you come to the logical conclusion, with quoted proof, he's claimed vanilla.
But I do agree with Eco, why did you claim in such a cryptic way?
You never once expressed any confusion on his vanilla claim - in fact, you made it a point to clarify why you believed that and that it was "clearly stated". This question is simply you parroting Eco, someone many have regarded as townie.
I unFoSed because I understand why he claimed vanilla when he did it and why he did it.
Also I wasn't that suspicious of Wuffles before him claiming vanilla. My suspicion came from him claiming vanilla. Therefore since I am no longer suspicious about him for that, I am not really suspicious of him anymore.
The only thing I don't understand is why he didn't just come out and say that he was vanilla, instead of tip-toeing around it.
This is a doozy. So, you weren't suspicious of Wuffles prior, became suspicious once he claimed vanilla, now that he explained why he claimed vanilla you're no longer suspicious, but again with the question about how he came out and claimed. You never expressed any doubt that he'd claimed vanilla; in fact you made it a point to show where he'd claimed vanilla. This does not mesh.
My memory of you this game is that you don't really answer accusations, that you retort with questions like you did above, you don't take strong stances, and when you do provide rationales they're poor. None of which signals "townie" in my mind.
My memory of you this game is that you don't really answer accusations, that you retort with questions like you did above, you don't take strong stances, and when you do provide rationales they're poor. None of which signals "townie" in my mind.
Actually I've taken a strong stance on AKid as of late, unfortunately he has been AWOL. Until he answers questions or posts more so that it can be analyzed, I don't have anything to dissect with him.
And if you look back I have been answering accusations this entire game.
Here is my reasoning on Wuffles.
He hasn't done or did anything that makes me think he is scum outside of the claim. The claim is what made me suspicious of him because I couldn't understand why he claimed when he did.
He explained his reasoning, and it made sense to me. Therefore I didn't really have anything further to be suspicious of him. But I was curious as to why he made his claim somewhat confusing, which is why I asked the question I did.
Confusion about Guardman was over flavour accusations by eco, pg
I'm referring to the fact that you said 'I use votes to show suspicion', but haven't. You just chucked dirt at people and said you weren't attacking them.
Saw the only thing you think was suspicious about Wuffles was that he claimed Vanilla? If this is so, why are you unvoting now? nothing has changed. Just seems like you're backpedaling.
And if claiming under no suspicion at all was worth a vote then, why did you not vote SK?
So you're attacking me because Eco was confused? Or are you trying to say something else?
Because nothing really has been voteworthy. Sorry to confuse you.
What has changed was that he gave me insight into why he did it, and, when trying to do as he asked, I realized that nothing he has done has been scummy in least.
Also, SK had a good amount of suspicion, and thus reason to claim.
I'd really like to hear more from BHB and AKkid. AK hasn't posted since the prod, and BHB promised a post tonight. I'm putting together a list of my thoughts on each player in the game, but my personal life has been hectic these past few days.
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Barning the thread with lurkers needing to post, but I still think the Bilbrox is easily the best case that we should be pursuing, and with Guardman slightly behind that.
Back to studying for APs x_x
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Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
OK. I've gotten past a mountain of work that was sprung on me. I'm catching up on the reading, and will have a big catchup post hopefully by tonight.
Honestly he has been doing this for a while. Barely posts, claims real life interference and then posts posts that are basically I am going to catch up later. When he does post then he has been attacking pretty much everybody and therefore by extension fence-sitting.
Honestly this lurking, delaying, aggressive fence-sitting makes me happy for my vote on him.
It's still not colorless, and has no color. That's a paradox. So either you're a Zen master or an idiot, I'll assume the Zen master for sake of argument. This card will have no paradoxes because it has a clear paradox. Deep stuff man.
I'd prefer BB, just because although Guardman is being scummy, I'm not sure that just him posting in his ususal awful style.
No, he has done this once before. Dude, don't question rl stuff, it's just out of order. Yes, he has been lurking, but for RL reasons, he did attack lots of people in his last big post, but what's wrong with saying 'I'm going to catch up later'?
This is a very aggressive post. I need to think about my vote, it really sounds like you're pushing for Akid. Armofsuspicion:Guardman.
I believe you've missed my posts on AK. This is what he does as scum more often than not. Go read some of his games and you'll see.
Given we only have one week remaining, and that people seem to be happy with pressure on Guardman AND Bilbroxain, I am of the opinion we should select one and pressure them harder, preferably into a claim.
If one has a good claim, we can look at the other.
Personally, I prefer Bilbroxain.
I am looking forward to BHB and Akid producing some content.
BHB does this everygame. Goodluck.
Bilbrox / GM are the main targets her today.
And honestly, i think the issue is that we wont really get enough people on any one wagon because, while people agree they're both scummy, people are confused as to who's on top.
I would prefer a GM claim, but think BB would be good too.
My thought? Get both of them too.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
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No I had an entire list of reasons, which you would see if you went back reread the posts I made about it.
@Wuffles: Why did you feel the need to claim? It seems like a bad move. I would like more clarification as to why you would do this.
FoS: Wuffles II
Being aggressive was one of my reasons, but it was far from the only one. And we have been over this before I was not fence sitting on AKid, I was waiting for him to post a response. But alas I am tired of beating a dead horse. Which is pretty much what you are forcing me to do, by making me respond to the same things time and time again. Really you don't have anything on me except for the arguments that Stormblind came up with. You are pretty much barning him and attacking me over issues that have been beaten to death.
Also Wuffles pretty much claimed vanilla. It wasn't an official claim, but it read like a claim to me.[/font][/COLOR]
Reread the pink paragraph. It pretty clearly states that he is acting the way he is because he is a vanilla townie. Therefore he seems to be claiming vanilla townie.
@Guardman: Until somebody says : I AM TOWNIE (or the like), dont percieve it as a claim. It may not actually be a claim but a hypothetical.
(7 to lynch)
Guardman - 1 (Apokalypse Kid)
Apokalypse Kid - 2 (StormBlind, Guardman)
Wuffles_II - 4 (Ecophagy, Shadow Knight, Toastboy, Bilbroxain)
Bilbroxain - 2 (DYH, creampuffeater)
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Bad trend is bad.
Once Wuffles gets back and clears up the vanilla/not claim thing i will have to have a look back over you.
What? No. I never voted Gaurdman, if that's what you're talking about.
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
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Awards:
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My mistook. It is more correct to say that is the second time you have attacked someone primarily by gaming the mod: being the first.
It is still a very bad trend.
Not sure why you brought Guardman up
Very content with my vote on Bilbroxain, particularly after his "I never claimed to be good" response.
It's nice to see CPE posting good contributions.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Simply put, I was ensuring that nobody was going to just arbitrarily get me to claim range and then hinge my hopes for survival on a WOW power role claim. I don't want to be judged by my claim, only my play. Which, I feel, is nowhere near suspicious enough to be worthy of the attention it's gained so far from toast and his happy little band (which I'm sure I'll be able to name once I re-read this)
I'm sorry, it's 5AM here, and this is the first time I've had to myself for two days, pretty much.
That would have been the first statement I made that could have been taken for a declaration of suspicion. That's why i brought him up.
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
Could you give us some flavour?
and why did you claim in the off-handed way you did?
@DYH: I dont always lurk, just 90% of the time. (Being in only 1 game helps my activity).
@Everybody: I may be slightly inactive as this is AP testing week and although I am only taking 1 test, the week also includes a final, 4 inclass essays, and multiple tests, so I will probably be studying a lot.
So unFoS: Wuffles II
But I do agree with Eco, why did you claim in such a cryptic way?
1.) UnFoS? Really? ...
2.) It wasn't really that cryptic at all. It was there in plain sight, which is why it was caught on to really quickly. It also seems to be his intent that people pick up on it, so I'm willing to look elsewhere.
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so....you think it was a good idea for Wuffles to claim vanilla, and that this magically absolves him of suspicion in your eyes.
...What?
And why then ask the question if you follow his reasoning?
@Guardman: Oh dear jesus. IF we got a vig, surely you can see that Guardman is more suspicious then SK.
@Bilbroxain: Something doesnt smell right here. Ill attempt some form of pbpa tonight i suppose. See what i see.
@Wuffles: Honestly, i got him pretty solidly pegged as town at this point. Suits how he plays, and just... well, FEELS right to me considering what i know of him. *Shrug*
Top 3 Scum list: Bilbroxain, Akid, Guardman.
I unFoSed because I understand why he claimed vanilla when he did it and why he did it.
Also I wasn't that suspicious of Wuffles before him claiming vanilla. My suspicion came from him claiming vanilla. Therefore since I am no longer suspicious about him for that, I am not really suspicious of him anymore.
The only thing I don't understand is why he didn't just come out and say that he was vanilla, instead of tip-toeing around it.
Going back to my original guns; your flip-flop on Wuffles here with the added bonus of agreeing and questioning in the same post really makes me think you're just trying to avoid making anyone upset with you. It's having the opposite effect.
@SB: I'm not sure I get why you're pushing this vig idea so hard. In a mini, there's not much margin for error, so I certainly don't want a vig to be out whacking anyone unclaimed.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
1. I wagoned Akid, 100 posts in, as the 4th vote.
2. I voted SK for shoddy reasons.
3. I claimed vanilla when the pressure was mounting.
Okay.
1. I jumped on the AK wagon, yes. Pressure wagons are the best way to start a day-start. Pretty much the only way, aside from a mass-claim. (One of these...has a future, Mr. Anderson...and one of them does not... :p). AK was a good target for this. I mean, I hardly think the results of this could be denied at this point - this game has had a whole lot of excellent discussion already, and a lot of it stems from that. I stand by my behavior here.
I refuse to believe that there is any significant difference between L-3 and L-4, either. Because, there isn't. I didn't want to push him to claim range. I certainly wouldn't try to get him lynched simply because he was being rude to SB. (which, granted, I think happens far too often in mafia games, but I mostly blame Loran for that, the bastard ) And furthermore, I didn't even notice the number of votes on him at the time.
2. I was never implying that I was voting him for being noob, only for being noob SCUM. Don't misrepresent me, I was quite clear on this.
My line of thought goes "okay, this guy's playing in his first two games. He's got pressure on him in this game, and as a new player, first time being mafia can be very daunting. Since he rapidly came under suspicion in this game, he may well have panicked, and gone straight for a false-claim based off something he saw in the other game he's in."
Yes, it proved to be wrong, as SK is actually Dragyn_Mage, a long-time mafia player. I'm pretty sure he's been around almost since MTGS started running mafia games. But that's my reasoning.
3. I'm sick and tired of the "okay, I don't really see the case on this guy, but let's push him to claim range and decide his fate based on that" mentality that pervades so many MTGS games these days. That's the reason why there are NEVER black and white vanillas in my mafia games. Because too many people on this site judge people on how useful their role PM is, rather than how useful their PLAY is.
So I claimed my (lack of a) role, in order to make people sit back and judge me for my play, and not for my role. I'm glad that it seems to be working.
I'm happy to answer any further questions people have about this, but for now, does anyone actually need me to reveal my flavor? Obviously, I don't mind doing so, but I don't really see a need.But in order to stopper any doubts involving me not wanting to claim so that I can wait and see, I'll say that my flavor is...somewhat roguish. Very Xyre-esque.
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UBR: Sedris
He has, however, yet to explain why voting for a player who claimed an ability that could confirm him as town without giving said player a chance to prove it is a good idea.
However, upon review of the thread: unvote, vote Bilvroxain.
I am still keeping an eye on Wuffles.
Admittedly, i may be pushing a bit hard on that. Suffice to say, at this point, we have bilbroxain and we guardman as the primary suspects. Im honestly not disagreeing with either at this point, Bilbrox seems a very solid lead for scum, but guardmans consistant bad posting keeps my vote on him.
On another note: AKID. He hasnt posted since the 30th so consider me annoyed. At this point, i feel this distinct urge to vote for akid, but... there's not that much THERE. His lack of posting causes him to slip from peoples minds and just... vanish. Suffice to say, im quite annoyed.
@ Xyre: Could we get a prod on him? It HAS been 5 days since his last post...
TLDR; Wuffles = town.
Bilbroxain & Guardman = Likely scum.
Akid = not posting -_-
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=3827563&highlight=#post3827563
EDIT: Akid has received the prod and promises activity, which I'll watch for while considering replacement. Vote count coming soon, after I've dealt with my various papers and responsibilities.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Where was I confused about gaurdman? I certainitly don't remember being confused about Gaurdman.
Why does it seem suspicious, if you don't mind me asking?
Blending with crowd? I saw him claim vanilla, and I moved to call him out on it, the only other post related to it being between his claim and the time I got on. I understand the vote on Akid being construed as an attempt to "blend in", but the one on Wuffles? No. I was calling him out on something I thought scummy, which is claiming when there is no pressure at all, which really only makes sense on millers.
Now, further on Wuffles: I think I can understand where his line of thought is coming from. And, as me attempting to judge his play, I can see nothing really scummy besides the needless claim. So I will Unvote Wuffles, especially since I am partially guilty of that mentality.
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
He's saying that he only has one chance at it, and if he gets roleblocked, that the chance is gone (I'm not wrong here, right?)
Do you see why that claim sounds so ridiculously false, now? There are simply too many ways that someone, almost anyone could screw up. With the leeway his claim would have brought him, could anyone that wanted to test his claim really want him dead, even if he were to come back with "umm, sorry guyz! I got RB'D! I still got a free pass though, right?"
I wasn't really very keen on letting that eventuality occur.
I don't actually recall SK claiming that...
(although AE did in crackhouse, so you may have the two confused)
If SK could clarify?
I still don't see why you wouldn't let him attempt to test it. If there was a RB, we could see if anyone else got RBed and figure things out from there.
Actually I am wondering why he claimed in a way that confused peaple if he was actually claiming.
And so DYH am I not allowed to ask questions or for clarification of peaple that I agree with on something or believe? I don't think that is a good reason at all. I see you ask for clarification from peaple you agree with all the time.
You seem to think the only reason I'm voting you is because of that. You're mistaken. You might recall that I've been on your case, well, for pretty much this entire game.
Now, could you possible be any scummier in the response above? Of course you're allowed to ask for clarifications and questions, Mr. Straw Man, and yes I do it too, Mr. Deflection, thanks for asking.
I understand what you're asking him to clarify, but let's review:
Here you FoS Wuffles because he claimed Vanilla. There is no doubt that he has claimed vanilla from you.
Here you come to the logical conclusion, with quoted proof, he's claimed vanilla.
You never once expressed any confusion on his vanilla claim - in fact, you made it a point to clarify why you believed that and that it was "clearly stated". This question is simply you parroting Eco, someone many have regarded as townie.
This is a doozy. So, you weren't suspicious of Wuffles prior, became suspicious once he claimed vanilla, now that he explained why he claimed vanilla you're no longer suspicious, but again with the question about how he came out and claimed. You never expressed any doubt that he'd claimed vanilla; in fact you made it a point to show where he'd claimed vanilla. This does not mesh.
My memory of you this game is that you don't really answer accusations, that you retort with questions like you did above, you don't take strong stances, and when you do provide rationales they're poor. None of which signals "townie" in my mind.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Actually I've taken a strong stance on AKid as of late, unfortunately he has been AWOL. Until he answers questions or posts more so that it can be analyzed, I don't have anything to dissect with him.
And if you look back I have been answering accusations this entire game.
Here is my reasoning on Wuffles.
He hasn't done or did anything that makes me think he is scum outside of the claim. The claim is what made me suspicious of him because I couldn't understand why he claimed when he did.
He explained his reasoning, and it made sense to me. Therefore I didn't really have anything further to be suspicious of him. But I was curious as to why he made his claim somewhat confusing, which is why I asked the question I did.
So you're attacking me because Eco was confused? Or are you trying to say something else?
Because nothing really has been voteworthy. Sorry to confuse you.
What has changed was that he gave me insight into why he did it, and, when trying to do as he asked, I realized that nothing he has done has been scummy in least.
Also, SK had a good amount of suspicion, and thus reason to claim.
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
Back to studying for APs x_x
I got that reversed. GM in front with BB behind.
I am totally willing to support a BB Wagon if thats where its decided that the day is headed.
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Here we go again.
Akid is back in play; he doesn't make these posts nearly as often when he's town as he does when's scum.
And either GM or BB is a fine place to pressure right now, they're both scummy as all get-out.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Honestly he has been doing this for a while. Barely posts, claims real life interference and then posts posts that are basically I am going to catch up later. When he does post then he has been attacking pretty much everybody and therefore by extension fence-sitting.
Honestly this lurking, delaying, aggressive fence-sitting makes me happy for my vote on him.
+1.
DYH's attacks on Guardman seems sound to me. Need to see Vote Count before I can/will vote though.
It's getting late here, and I guess posting something light > no posting... Will make up tomorrow.
The only colour with a 99/99
Signature by Spongy Pengwin
UBR: Sedris
I believe you've missed my posts on AK. This is what he does as scum more often than not. Go read some of his games and you'll see.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
(7 to lynch)
Guardman - 2 (Apokalypse Kid, DYH)
Apokalypse Kid - 2 (StormBlind, Guardman)
Wuffles_II - 1 (Shadow Knight)
Bilbroxain - 3 (creampuffeater, Ecophagy, Toastboy)
Corrections are appreciated where applicable.
This is your one-week reminder. The deadline is still 14 May at 1, minus any extensions.
Flavor will come back when I'm not horrendously busy.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
If one has a good claim, we can look at the other.
Personally, I prefer Bilbroxain.
I am looking forward to BHB and Akid producing some content.
Bilbrox / GM are the main targets her today.
And honestly, i think the issue is that we wont really get enough people on any one wagon because, while people agree they're both scummy, people are confused as to who's on top.
I would prefer a GM claim, but think BB would be good too.
My thought? Get both of them too.