What's with the potential fence-sitting disclaimer at the end there?
My playstyle. I don't even really notice it, but unless I'm probably about 75% sure someone is or isn't scum, my wording sounds like fence-sitting rather than just not being sure.
I'm getting more sucpicious of TFO. His reaction to presure and excuse about trying different playstyles seems scummy. Even if he is, it's a great way to cover up pottential slip-ups from being scum. Vote: TheFallenOne
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Despite my name, I do not play casual magic. Just thought that would be good to tell people.
TFO and Toastboy didn't really do any bandwagoning (3rd random votes are different), Toastboy didn't random vote AI (TFO did), and TFO never said that his AI vote wasn't random (he was talking about his Toastboy comment).
What posts did you look at to get these erroneous conclusions?
Hm, it seems that I may have made a mistake. For now, I will go through and re-read, to make absolutely sure he is who I think he is. I don't believe, however, that I will change my mind. My vote is still on TFO, reguardless. Also, I have my doubts for suspecting Toast (as in, I am not sure exactly why I suspected him). Your points make me think that I must have been a little confused while reading the early posts. Let's be honest with ourselves, they are not the most sensical posts in the world. Not getting a little confused takes lots of effort and practice, mostly practice.
UnFOS: Toastboy
Also, about the mislynch, in the past day or so, his posts have degaded to "dude, it wasn't me" rather than the in-depth analysis that I would expect from an experianced player under fire. Rather than giving us more to work with, he is giving us chaff that won't help us in the long run if he is indeed scum. When I was almost lynched as town in Anita Blake mafia, I gave a very long analysis about who I thought was scum and who wasn't, based on whether or not I was scum or town when dead. That day, the town bumped off a mafioso (or so I remember), and I was NKed due to the information I was handing out. While I can understand TFO not wanting to get NKed, when you are close to being lynched, the least you should do is throw out some kind of logical defense.
At the moment, were I in charge of the NK, here's who I would knock off (assuming they are town):
In no particular order
AI - Experianced player with lengthy logical posts.
Chaos - Slightly experiaced, not throwing out chaff
Ced - More experianced, high post count, asks the right questions
Toast - Acts like a more experianced player, save a slip up or two. More lengthy posts
In this general (albet basic) analysis, I am assuming that "lengthy posts" are more than just random **** thrown in to confuse. If my posts don't make sense, let me know where you are having trouble, and I will do my best to clarify. Sometimes I have trouble getting my thoughts into words.
I think we should hold on TFO votes beyond this point, and give him a chance to explain himself first.
Agreed. Also, should TFO be a mislynch, the obvious targets for investigation would be Chaos, Toastboy, and CasualThor for possible bandwagoning. Assuming we survive the night, of course. Also, we could probably say that anyone who votes for TFO before we all agree to should be a first priority investigation.
At the moment, were I in charge of the NK, here's who I would knock off (assuming they are town):
In no particular order
AI - Experianced player with lengthy logical posts.
Chaos - Slightly experiaced, not throwing out chaff
Ced - More experianced, high post count, asks the right questions
Toast - Acts like a more experianced player, save a slip up or two. More lengthy posts
In this general (albet basic) analysis, I am assuming that "lengthy posts" are more than just random **** thrown in to confuse. If my posts don't make sense, let me know where you are having trouble, and I will do my best to clarify. Sometimes I have trouble getting my thoughts into words.
Could you please explain acronyms that arn't name related? Not even sure I can respond to that until I know what you mean.
Wine in front of me. It means that you are making people think "but what if he's scum and he wants me to think that..?", making players unsure of where to place thier vote.
You are not going to be happy with what you see, I am currently experimenting with different play styles using players as example of different posting styles to test the effectiveness and see what the game is like in the eyes of a kpaca or a seppel. I wanted to keep this a secret but I guess its not worth risking a mafia game over.
TFO, you have become less and less coherent in your responses, and it seems that anger has blinded you. When you say that we are "not going to like" this playstyle in relation to your previous games, that tells me that you are covering up for being scum. I cannot not vote you because of your actions. They are irrational and extremely defensive. We ask you to justify your actions, and not only do you come up with a blunt no, but shortly afterwords you pull up a shoddy generic exuse. It is possible that you did not count the votes, but I find that hard to believe; you being the experianced player you say you are.
In short, I think you are mafia. If not, your lynching will have not lost us much.
VOTE: The Fallen One
Nice job setting up the scummy excuse for a mislynch.
Hm, it seems that I may have made a mistake. For now, I will go through and re-read, to make absolutely sure he is who I think he is. I don't believe, however, that I will change my mind. My vote is still on TFO, reguardless. Also, I have my doubts for suspecting Toast (as in, I am not sure exactly why I suspected him). Your points make me think that I must have been a little confused while reading the early posts. Let's be honest with ourselves, they are not the most sensical posts in the world. Not getting a little confused takes lots of effort and practice, mostly practice.
UnFOS: Toastboy
Also, about the mislynch, in the past day or so, his posts have degaded to "dude, it wasn't me" rather than the in-depth analysis that I would expect from an experianced player under fire. Rather than giving us more to work with, he is giving us chaff that won't help us in the long run if he is indeed scum. When I was almost lynched as town in Anita Blake mafia, I gave a very long analysis about who I thought was scum and who wasn't, based on whether or not I was scum or town when dead. That day, the town bumped off a mafioso (or so I remember), and I was NKed due to the information I was handing out. While I can understand TFO not wanting to get NKed, when you are close to being lynched, the least you should do is throw out some kind of logical defense.
At the moment, were I in charge of the NK, here's who I would knock off (assuming they are town):
In no particular order
AI - Experianced player with lengthy logical posts.
Chaos - Slightly experiaced, not throwing out chaff
Ced - More experianced, high post count, asks the right questions
Toast - Acts like a more experianced player, save a slip up or two. More lengthy posts
In this general (albet basic) analysis, I am assuming that "lengthy posts" are more than just random **** thrown in to confuse. If my posts don't make sense, let me know where you are having trouble, and I will do my best to clarify. Sometimes I have trouble getting my thoughts into words.
Largely WIFOM, set up a group of players for NK, possibly hoping for a vig?? Either way it's a dumb list. I like how you'er included for "not throwing out chaff"
Agreed. Also, should TFO be a mislynch, the obvious targets for investigation would be Chaos, Toastboy, and CasualThor for possible bandwagoning. Assuming we survive the night, of course. Also, we could probably say that anyone who votes for TFO before we all agree to should be a first priority investigation.
And here you direct the cop. Bravo!
unvote: Vote Chaos550.
Also TFO is at L-2, please do not vote for him until he claims.
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I don't think that I wish to continue playing. If I could get a replacement that'd be great. Sorry for wasting your time, but I just don't think that I have the time, reasoning skills, or temperament for this game. Either that or I waaaaay overthink things.
This is a very premature defense of any meta accusation that could be levelled against you. Especially so considering that I didn't even specify what I would be looking for.
I believe that you're scum who is conscious of a playstyle change on your own part, and is trying to cover it up.
Vote The Fallen One
No, I have been planning this for while, I've even discussed it with certain people one of which is in this game.
Experimental playstyle changes like this are usually not connected to your alignment.
Besides, the fact that you built up your walls as soon as I even hinted that I would be investigating this particular angle is telling in itself.
I was just mentioning it because I felt it was important and was completely relevant to the situation, I was just saying you wouldn't like seeing an entirely differen't play style, you're just pulling things out your ass now...
I noticed that you've interacted with TFO quite a bit this game, such as the two short exchanges you had on pages 2 and 4, where you pushed him for answers. However, your stance on him has been a bit vague, which I found unusual, considering all the interaction.
So, what is your stance on TFO?
You are going after kpaca now because he is the only one that isn't following you? What are you some sort of holy messiah? I would like the town to stop following you and think for themselves.
You are going after kpaca now because he is the only one that isn't following you? What are you some sort of holy messiah? I would like the town to stop following you and think for themselves.
All he did was ask a simple question of kpaca. I hardly think it qualifies as "going after" him. You are being oddly defensive.
EBWODP: You said your wagon is "led by one player with invalid reasons." Ced asked you to name who it was and you failed to respond. Please name the player who you consider to be leading your wagon with invalid reasons.
EBWODP: You said your wagon is "led by one player with invalid reasons." Ced asked you to name who it was and you failed to respond. Please name the player who you consider to be leading your wagon with invalid reasons.
I don't consider being accused of bandwagoning in the random voting stage to be a valid reason on why someone is scum.
EBWODP: You said your wagon is "led by one player with invalid reasons." Ced asked you to name who it was and you failed to respond. Please name the player who you consider to be leading your wagon with invalid reasons.
Hmm.
The purpose I had in mind when I went to look at previous examples of your play was to compare your approach to pressure in this game with you as a scum role (say, you being SK in newb 23), as well as your town approach (newb 26). In this game, you responded to questioning with one line answers, with a bit of sarcasm or non-answers here and there. I remember you doing that in newb 26, when I built a case on you, and you, for the most part, ignored it (or responded in the age-old Seppel-ism: "I'm town!"). So, that matches, to an extent.
To be honest, I haven't actually finished looking through newb 23 yet. I'll need to do that.
Anyway, your explanation for why you covered for any possible playstyle changes which I would have found makes sense. I expect that I saw it otherwise because you moved to cover your scum meta bases, when actually I was looking for "is this action null tell or town tell for him?"
The fact is, when I was the SK I played as though I was a town vig for the whole game, every other game I have played in I have been town, there is nothing to compare, I don't normally post one line answers and use sarcasm, that was a playstyle I was testing, I have since abandoned it anyway.
That's both misrepresentative of the question and the reasons people have had for voting you. Nobody has accused you of bandwagoning (3rd random votes are different, and nobody's really directly accused you of third random voting anyway).
I was just mentioning it because I felt it was important and was completely relevant to the situation, I was just saying you wouldn't like seeing an entirely differen't play style, you're just pulling things out your ass now...
Your appeal to ridicule doesn't make your argument any stronger. If anything, it is now more apparent than ever that you won't answer any questions directly unless multiple players ask the same question, and even then you're snappy and insolent.
Ced, I mentioned AI because I asked him his opinions a while back and he hasn't posted since.
If you want a list of who I think is scum, here it is:
1. TFO.
I believe his acidity is unwarranted (read: borderline flaming) and that his "new playstyle" excuse is just a cover. I don't understand why a townie would attempt to viciously insult every other player when people are just trying to play the game well and have fun. At this point, I want to see you contribute positively to this game, but until that happens, you top my scum list. Waiting for meaningful content from TFO or an OK to lynch.
FoS stands.
2. chaos zindabad.
Though the replacement of chaos makes me loath to recommend a zindabad lynch, his predecessor's baseless "analysis," blatant attempts to manipulate the power players, and WIFOM setup followed by the replacement request reek of scum ejecting from the game in a last-ditch effort to salvage any chance of his character surviving the day. I reiterate that I do not recommend a zindabad lynch today.
FoS zindabad, through no (obvious) fault of his own.
3. kpaca.
Not only did he not suspect TFO as scum, but he almost seemed to refuse to acknowledge the possibility. Coupled with his vehement assertion of Toastboy's innocence followed by a poorly explained vote, these plays do not seem townish to me. I understand that part of kpaca's playstyle is to make statements that do not always have a basis in reality, but in this case, this play is not helping the town. I also do not recommend a kpaca lynch today, but if TFO turns out to be scum, kpaca will jump to the top of my list.
Sure. Here's a big surprise - I think kpaca is suspicious. He commits the classic "I know this player is town" scumtell, twice affirming that Toastboy is "clearly" noob town despite not providing any evidence to support this. But right after TFO's claim, kpaca switched his vote to Toast, citing "not reading the thread" as his reason. Now, I really don't see what TFO's claim has to do with kpaca switching his vote from chaos to Toast. And I definitely don't agree with the reasoning for that vote on a player he'd already named as town.
Then there's how he hasn't taken a stance on TFO - all he says is "well that was a wagon that moved entirely too fast," (168) as though the wagon is somehow over now that TFO has made a vanilla claim in a basic game.
I want to wait for absent players (Turk/Drakoguard/CasualThor) to return and give their opinions, and then I would like to see TFO swing.
@AI: As always, I can't be held accountable for the actions of my predecessor, but I'd like to point out that the language "to salvage any chance of his character surviving the day" is hyperbole, considering the circumstances.
Well, in all honesty my opinions are beginning to erode quite quickly. I still feel suspicious of kpaca, I still feel suspicious of TFO. Well, I suppose that I should feel suspicious of everybody because of how the game's played, but paranoia aside, those two are still at the top of my list.
However, I just hate lacking solid evidence, and I think that in most cases (especially for kpaca), their arguements against those suspicions have been sound, which means that I don't feel comfortable putting a vote in. Perhaps something will come up, and if not, I'll go back and again reread things, to see if that offers any new insight.
Also: I think Bilbro disappeared too.
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Well, I still belive TFO is scum. The question dodging is a little sucpicious, but I agree with him that it was fairly obvious who he was talking about. Nothing has really made me more or less sucpicious of him.
As for who else I think is scum, I'm really not sure. I'm a little suspicious of Kpaca. First he states that TB is town (Post #56), then he states that TB is scum (Post #168), and the only reason he gave was because he said something about chaos after he asked for a replacment. That doesn't mean he's not reading the thread.
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Despite my name, I do not play casual magic. Just thought that would be good to tell people.
Well, in all honesty my opinions are beginning to erode quite quickly. I still feel suspicious of kpaca, I still feel suspicious of TFO. Well, I suppose that I should feel suspicious of everybody because of how the game's played, but paranoia aside, those two are still at the top of my list.
However, I just hate lacking solid evidence, and I think that in most cases (especially for kpaca), their arguements against those suspicions have been sound, which means that I don't feel comfortable putting a vote in. Perhaps something will come up, and if not, I'll go back and again reread things, to see if that offers any new insight.
Also: I think Bilbro disappeared too.
Sorry about that, my other game has been requiring more attention.
Yes, Kpaca's flip-floping on the TB issue is suspicious, but I don't think that it's a tell.
TFO's spiels are more suspicious, but I really haven't found anything that really makes me want to vote him. A Fos: TFO will probably suffice.
Also, I feel that we have lost a considerable percentage of out player base, so Mod, can we get a prod on less active players, please?
@TFO: So, basically it looks like this: You are currently trying out several playstyles(I assume one per game). You were trying out the "One-Line-Wonder"-playstyle when you began to defend yourself. To make a preemptive strike against possible meta-arguments you told us what you did/do(the playstyle thing). Then the wagon formed and you see/saw ced as the one responsible. And since your posts have gained length a bit I assume you have returned to your standard playstyle.
Are these assumptions correct/incorrect?
On another note: Where is everybody?
No, I've swapped from "one-line-wonder" to something else, and I know what will be fun! you guys can try to guess what it is
TFO, I don't like the 'you're pulling stuff out of your ass' comment. you're really trying to rubish arguments against you and move on, and it's just making me more suspicious.
I'm sorry, if this language to harsh for you? I had know idea that mtgs mafia was g rated
Sorry for the lurking, I haven't had internet for 3 days so that doesn't help my situation. This medicine I have been taking is giving me a massive headache so if I missed any questions just speak up.
@Bilbro: I don't think TB is scum, I just think he was put out in the open which ultimately started this game.
As for my scum list, right now I think TFO is at the top. He dodged a question from page 7 saying it was a "dumb question" when the point in my opinion was valid. What makes me wonder is why would he distinguish that vote from the rest by saying that joke was a half joke. And not only that but he has still not answered the question. I also am not very fond of hiding behind the whole playstyles thing...it just seems to convenient. His reactions kind of give the impression that he is very deffinsive of accusations which is usually a trait if you are lying about who you are.
FoS: TFO
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Sorry for the lurking, I haven't had internet for 3 days so that doesn't help my situation. This medicine I have been taking is giving me a massive headache so if I missed any questions just speak up.
@Bilbro: I don't think TB is scum, I just think he was put out in the open which ultimately started this game.
As for my scum list, right now I think TFO is at the top. He dodged a question from page 7 saying it was a "dumb question" when the point in my opinion was valid. What makes me wonder is why would he distinguish that vote from the rest by saying that joke was a half joke. And not only that but he has still not answered the question. I also am not very fond of hiding behind the whole playstyles thing...it just seems to convenient. His reactions kind of give the impression that he is very deffinsive of accusations which is usually a trait if you are lying about who you are.
FoS: TFO
If you're so convinced why not vote? might as well lynch me for info.
Well, I still belive TFO is scum. The question dodging is a little sucpicious, but I agree with him that it was fairly obvious who he was talking about. Nothing has really made me more or less sucpicious of him.
As for who else I think is scum, I'm really not sure. I'm a little suspicious of Kpaca. First he states that TB is town (Post #56), then he states that TB is scum (Post #168), and the only reason he gave was because he said something about chaos after he asked for a replacment. That doesn't mean he's not reading the thread.
First: my vote on Toast is clearly because he asked questions of a player who replaced out, signifying he clearly wasn't reading.
Second: My lack of vote on TFO is due to the fact that the case against him was/is weak and the points Ced brought up seem more conjured out of thin air than anything else. Also TFO told me about 2 weeks ago before this game even started that he planned on trying several different playstyles (mine included), and he even has a list of these (it includes people like Cyan, Descourse, etc). So I knew what he was doing with his one liners.
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First: my vote on Toast is clearly because he asked questions of a player who replaced out, signifying he clearly wasn't reading.
I'm going to make the bold statement that not reading the thread is a null tell. However, Toast's post 186 where he tries to claim that he tried to "ask him not to replace" sounds like some after-the-fact editing. In post 163, he never mentions anything about replacing or trying to convince chaos not to replace. I don't think he's scum, but it's worth looking into, I suppose.
Second: My lack of vote on TFO is due to the fact that the case against him was/is weak and the points Ced brought up seem more conjured out of thin air than anything else. Also TFO told me about 2 weeks ago before this game even started that he planned on trying several different playstyles (mine included), and he even has a list of these (it includes people like Cyan, Descourse, etc). So I knew what he was doing with his one liners.
I have outlined my dislike of self-meta arguments many times. This quote from TFO is especially egregious:
You are not going to be happy with what you see, I am currently experimenting with different play styles using players as example of different posting styles to test the effectiveness and see what the game is like in the eyes of a kpaca or a seppel. I wanted to keep this a secret but I guess its not worth risking a mafia game over.
Preemptive self-meta in response to coming under pressure? That's not fooling me. Vote: The Fallen One.
However, I just hate lacking solid evidence, and I think that in most cases (especially for kpaca), their arguements against those suspicions have been sound, which means that I don't feel comfortable putting a vote in.
Unfortunately, often the only evidence you have to go on is tiny little tells that carry no certainty. I'm quickly coming to realize that delaying for "solid evidence" tends to make me sit on the fence way too long. But rushing into things is foolhardy, as well. You've got to experiment to find the happy balance.
First: my vote on Toast is clearly because he asked questions of a player who replaced out, signifying he clearly wasn't reading.
This feels like an extremely weak reason to vote for someone...especially someone who you've already pegged as "town, seriously folks". Do you have other reasons for your reversal, or are you trying to save TFO by drawing attention back to Toastboy, or...?
As for TFO, I first have to apologize. I jokingly random-voted for you back at the start for you "admitting to bandwagoning", which wasn't you saying that you were admitting to bandwagoning, but you tossing out a one-liner to answer why you were suspicious of Toast. I noted my epic fail in interpretation, but never unvoted. However, since then, you've evaded questions, provided very little in content, and been vitriolic in general. Your one-line claim was as vague (and therefore safe) as one can get (Winston Churchill sounds like the kind of historical figure we'd get in this game, but we get no additional info). Your "I'm trying something new!" smacks of scum covering for change in playstyle. You really come off as scummy.
No, I have been planning this for while, I've even discussed it with certain people one of which is in this game.
This, followed by kpaca's "confirmation" almost feels like scum calling out to scum mid-day 1 for help. But I don't know if a tactic like that is something that's often attempted, and it's probably not anything significant.
Quote from TFO »
I'm also shocked at the number of people who just jumped randomly on the bandwagon, why does this always happen in newb games.
Similarly, this feels like redirection. "Oh, woe is me. I'm trapped in a newb/basic game with a bunch of newb bandwagoners who don't know what they're doing."
Of course not, not when the shoe is on the other foot, right?
Quote from TFO »
Also guys, did you see my claim? I'M TOWN btw
Imitating Seppel won't make us see you as more town or less scum...we'll just dislike you more (I've never even played in a game with Seppel, and I know this).
I will leave my vote where it is, I think. You're definitely still at the top of my list. However, as noted, if you just want out, ask for a replacement so that someone can actually make an effort to convince us that your player-slot is town, not scum. If not, you make an effort to convince us. I still haven't seen much response from you, and everything you post continues in the vague, misdirecting, scummy trend.
My playstyle. I don't even really notice it, but unless I'm probably about 75% sure someone is or isn't scum, my wording sounds like fence-sitting rather than just not being sure.
I'm getting more sucpicious of TFO. His reaction to presure and excuse about trying different playstyles seems scummy. Even if he is, it's a great way to cover up pottential slip-ups from being scum. Vote: TheFallenOne
Vote Count #2
The Fallen One - 5
ced395, cantripmancer, chaos550, CausalThor, toastboy
AsianInvasion - 1
kpaca
Not Voting - 6
ChrisXIV, The Fallen One, Drakoguard, The Semantimancer, Bilbroxain, AsianInvasion
With 12 alive, its 7 to lynch
Hm, it seems that I may have made a mistake. For now, I will go through and re-read, to make absolutely sure he is who I think he is. I don't believe, however, that I will change my mind. My vote is still on TFO, reguardless. Also, I have my doubts for suspecting Toast (as in, I am not sure exactly why I suspected him). Your points make me think that I must have been a little confused while reading the early posts. Let's be honest with ourselves, they are not the most sensical posts in the world. Not getting a little confused takes lots of effort and practice, mostly practice.
UnFOS: Toastboy
Also, about the mislynch, in the past day or so, his posts have degaded to "dude, it wasn't me" rather than the in-depth analysis that I would expect from an experianced player under fire. Rather than giving us more to work with, he is giving us chaff that won't help us in the long run if he is indeed scum. When I was almost lynched as town in Anita Blake mafia, I gave a very long analysis about who I thought was scum and who wasn't, based on whether or not I was scum or town when dead. That day, the town bumped off a mafioso (or so I remember), and I was NKed due to the information I was handing out. While I can understand TFO not wanting to get NKed, when you are close to being lynched, the least you should do is throw out some kind of logical defense.
At the moment, were I in charge of the NK, here's who I would knock off (assuming they are town):
In no particular order
AI - Experianced player with lengthy logical posts.
Chaos - Slightly experiaced, not throwing out chaff
Ced - More experianced, high post count, asks the right questions
Toast - Acts like a more experianced player, save a slip up or two. More lengthy posts
In this general (albet basic) analysis, I am assuming that "lengthy posts" are more than just random **** thrown in to confuse. If my posts don't make sense, let me know where you are having trouble, and I will do my best to clarify. Sometimes I have trouble getting my thoughts into words.
Legacy: WUB Doomsday
Standard: WUB Reanimator
Agreed. Also, should TFO be a mislynch, the obvious targets for investigation would be Chaos, Toastboy, and CasualThor for possible bandwagoning. Assuming we survive the night, of course. Also, we could probably say that anyone who votes for TFO before we all agree to should be a first priority investigation.
Legacy: WUB Doomsday
Standard: WUB Reanimator
My supicions are on TFO for nothing more than he is flailing.
Then I have suspicions on chaos550 for:
Seems to me like WIFOM set-up.
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
Eh?
Could you please explain acronyms that arn't name related? Not even sure I can respond to that until I know what you mean.
Legacy: WUB Doomsday
Standard: WUB Reanimator
Wine in front of me. It means that you are making people think "but what if he's scum and he wants me to think that..?", making players unsure of where to place thier vote.
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
Please Sir, do not ever compare me to Seppel.
Nice job setting up the scummy excuse for a mislynch.
Largely WIFOM, set up a group of players for NK, possibly hoping for a vig?? Either way it's a dumb list. I like how you'er included for "not throwing out chaff"
And here you direct the cop. Bravo!
unvote: Vote Chaos550.
Also TFO is at L-2, please do not vote for him until he claims.
Unvote TFO
Vote Chaos550
maybe my death as town will at least validate that list a little.
Legacy: WUB Doomsday
Standard: WUB Reanimator
Bad chaos. Do not be a Charmmaster, kpaca, or any others of a long list.
Also, kpaca, why so parroty?
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
Again, sorry all.
Legacy: WUB Doomsday
Standard: WUB Reanimator
But if you don't have the time or the temperment I agree with your decision to get replacement and thank you for it.
Legacy: WUB Doomsday
Standard: WUB Reanimator
Effective emmdiately: Zindabad replaces Chaos550
I have thoughts but there's no point in stating them until we hear TFO's claim, so let's wait on that.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
No, I have been planning this for while, I've even discussed it with certain people one of which is in this game.
I wasnt, I was talking about you as unique playstyles =/
I'm also shocked at the number of people who just jumped randomly on the bandwagon, why does this always happen in newb games.
I'm Winston Churchill, Vanilla Town.
unvote: vote toastboy. I don't think he's reading the thread, probably because he's not looking for scum, because he is scum.
I normal games people are condemned for jumping on bandwagons lead by one player without valid reasons.
I was just mentioning it because I felt it was important and was completely relevant to the situation, I was just saying you wouldn't like seeing an entirely differen't play style, you're just pulling things out your ass now...
No one has anything past "he bandwagoned" and "hes being defensive" its ridiculous that a wagon built that fast.
You are going after kpaca now because he is the only one that isn't following you? What are you some sort of holy messiah? I would like the town to stop following you and think for themselves.
Dodging the question.
All he did was ask a simple question of kpaca. I hardly think it qualifies as "going after" him. You are being oddly defensive.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
You are just repeating what people have already said.
Can you explain your reaction to ced's question to kpaca as being anything but defensive?
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
I don't consider being accused of bandwagoning in the random voting stage to be a valid reason on why someone is scum.
Maybe the third time's the charm. Please tell me, explicitly, who the player you consider to be leading your wagon without valid reasons is.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
ced, I thought that was obvious from the last page but I guess not.
Why did you dodge his question, then, when you easily could've told him it was him?
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Because I thought it was obvious.
The fact is, when I was the SK I played as though I was a town vig for the whole game, every other game I have played in I have been town, there is nothing to compare, I don't normally post one line answers and use sarcasm, that was a playstyle I was testing, I have since abandoned it anyway.
That's both misrepresentative of the question and the reasons people have had for voting you. Nobody has accused you of bandwagoning (3rd random votes are different, and nobody's really directly accused you of third random voting anyway).
I thought that was funny, considering this is my second Mafia game.
Your appeal to ridicule doesn't make your argument any stronger. If anything, it is now more apparent than ever that you won't answer any questions directly unless multiple players ask the same question, and even then you're snappy and insolent.
If you want a list of who I think is scum, here it is:
1. TFO.
I believe his acidity is unwarranted (read: borderline flaming) and that his "new playstyle" excuse is just a cover. I don't understand why a townie would attempt to viciously insult every other player when people are just trying to play the game well and have fun. At this point, I want to see you contribute positively to this game, but until that happens, you top my scum list. Waiting for meaningful content from TFO or an OK to lynch.
FoS stands.
2.
chaoszindabad.Though the replacement of chaos makes me loath to recommend a zindabad lynch, his predecessor's baseless "analysis," blatant attempts to manipulate the power players, and WIFOM setup followed by the replacement request reek of scum ejecting from the game in a last-ditch effort to salvage any chance of his character surviving the day. I reiterate that I do not recommend a zindabad lynch today.
FoS zindabad, through no (obvious) fault of his own.
3. kpaca.
Not only did he not suspect TFO as scum, but he almost seemed to refuse to acknowledge the possibility. Coupled with his vehement assertion of Toastboy's innocence followed by a poorly explained vote, these plays do not seem townish to me. I understand that part of kpaca's playstyle is to make statements that do not always have a basis in reality, but in this case, this play is not helping the town. I also do not recommend a kpaca lynch today, but if TFO turns out to be scum, kpaca will jump to the top of my list.
kpaca noted.
Sure. Here's a big surprise - I think kpaca is suspicious. He commits the classic "I know this player is town" scumtell, twice affirming that Toastboy is "clearly" noob town despite not providing any evidence to support this. But right after TFO's claim, kpaca switched his vote to Toast, citing "not reading the thread" as his reason. Now, I really don't see what TFO's claim has to do with kpaca switching his vote from chaos to Toast. And I definitely don't agree with the reasoning for that vote on a player he'd already named as town.
Then there's how he hasn't taken a stance on TFO - all he says is "well that was a wagon that moved entirely too fast," (168) as though the wagon is somehow over now that TFO has made a vanilla claim in a basic game.
I want to wait for absent players (Turk/Drakoguard/CasualThor) to return and give their opinions, and then I would like to see TFO swing.
@AI: As always, I can't be held accountable for the actions of my predecessor, but I'd like to point out that the language "to salvage any chance of his character surviving the day" is hyperbole, considering the circumstances.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
However, I just hate lacking solid evidence, and I think that in most cases (especially for kpaca), their arguements against those suspicions have been sound, which means that I don't feel comfortable putting a vote in. Perhaps something will come up, and if not, I'll go back and again reread things, to see if that offers any new insight.
Also: I think Bilbro disappeared too.
As for who else I think is scum, I'm really not sure. I'm a little suspicious of Kpaca. First he states that TB is town (Post #56), then he states that TB is scum (Post #168), and the only reason he gave was because he said something about chaos after he asked for a replacment. That doesn't mean he's not reading the thread.
Sorry about that, my other game has been requiring more attention.
Yes, Kpaca's flip-floping on the TB issue is suspicious, but I don't think that it's a tell.
TFO's spiels are more suspicious, but I really haven't found anything that really makes me want to vote him. A Fos: TFO will probably suffice.
Also, I feel that we have lost a considerable percentage of out player base, so Mod, can we get a prod on less active players, please?
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
No, I've swapped from "one-line-wonder" to something else, and I know what will be fun! you guys can try to guess what it is
I'm sorry, if this language to harsh for you? I had know idea that mtgs mafia was g rated
For the record I don't find you scummy anymore.
Also guys, did you see my claim? I'M TOWN btw
@Bilbro: I don't think TB is scum, I just think he was put out in the open which ultimately started this game.
As for my scum list, right now I think TFO is at the top. He dodged a question from page 7 saying it was a "dumb question" when the point in my opinion was valid. What makes me wonder is why would he distinguish that vote from the rest by saying that joke was a half joke. And not only that but he has still not answered the question. I also am not very fond of hiding behind the whole playstyles thing...it just seems to convenient. His reactions kind of give the impression that he is very deffinsive of accusations which is usually a trait if you are lying about who you are.
FoS: TFO
Thanks to High~Light Studios for this banner
:mad1:Drakoguard, Fiery God of Dragons:mad1:
My Extendo
If you're so convinced why not vote? might as well lynch me for info.
L > N
Can you explain what this means?
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Second: My lack of vote on TFO is due to the fact that the case against him was/is weak and the points Ced brought up seem more conjured out of thin air than anything else. Also TFO told me about 2 weeks ago before this game even started that he planned on trying several different playstyles (mine included), and he even has a list of these (it includes people like Cyan, Descourse, etc). So I knew what he was doing with his one liners.
I'm going to make the bold statement that not reading the thread is a null tell. However, Toast's post 186 where he tries to claim that he tried to "ask him not to replace" sounds like some after-the-fact editing. In post 163, he never mentions anything about replacing or trying to convince chaos not to replace. I don't think he's scum, but it's worth looking into, I suppose.
I have outlined my dislike of self-meta arguments many times. This quote from TFO is especially egregious:
Preemptive self-meta in response to coming under pressure? That's not fooling me. Vote: The Fallen One.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Do you just want out of this game or what? If so, ask for replacement.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Unfortunately, often the only evidence you have to go on is tiny little tells that carry no certainty. I'm quickly coming to realize that delaying for "solid evidence" tends to make me sit on the fence way too long. But rushing into things is foolhardy, as well. You've got to experiment to find the happy balance.
This feels like an extremely weak reason to vote for someone...especially someone who you've already pegged as "town, seriously folks". Do you have other reasons for your reversal, or are you trying to save TFO by drawing attention back to Toastboy, or...?
As for TFO, I first have to apologize. I jokingly random-voted for you back at the start for you "admitting to bandwagoning", which wasn't you saying that you were admitting to bandwagoning, but you tossing out a one-liner to answer why you were suspicious of Toast. I noted my epic fail in interpretation, but never unvoted. However, since then, you've evaded questions, provided very little in content, and been vitriolic in general. Your one-line claim was as vague (and therefore safe) as one can get (Winston Churchill sounds like the kind of historical figure we'd get in this game, but we get no additional info). Your "I'm trying something new!" smacks of scum covering for change in playstyle. You really come off as scummy.
This, followed by kpaca's "confirmation" almost feels like scum calling out to scum mid-day 1 for help. But I don't know if a tactic like that is something that's often attempted, and it's probably not anything significant.
Similarly, this feels like redirection. "Oh, woe is me. I'm trapped in a newb/basic game with a bunch of newb bandwagoners who don't know what they're doing."
Of course not, not when the shoe is on the other foot, right?
Imitating Seppel won't make us see you as more town or less scum...we'll just dislike you more (I've never even played in a game with Seppel, and I know this).
I will leave my vote where it is, I think. You're definitely still at the top of my list. However, as noted, if you just want out, ask for a replacement so that someone can actually make an effort to convince us that your player-slot is town, not scum. If not, you make an effort to convince us. I still haven't seen much response from you, and everything you post continues in the vague, misdirecting, scummy trend.