Yes, I know that. But right here he said that he had the wrong company in his initial PM, and it was based on that that he claimed both DC and Other. Does this mean that his role PM said both DC and Other? How can that be? That's why I want clarification.
I'm well aware - but you can't hold untargetability against someone (unless you want to claim its exclusively a scum ability, which I would disagree with) just because you can't verify their alignment because of it.
We have seen Cyan play as "untargetability", NOTHING is showing us the same style of play. Cyan is aggressive (As shown in FF7 mafia).Are you saying that SK untargetable Cyan will be way more aggressive then say a Townie untargetable Cyan? When all of my findings show that Cyan is MORE active when he is a townie rather then a scum. When here he was quite until someone mentioned him. It really dosen't all add up.
In theory, if Cyan is a townie untargetable player, we should have seen him ripping people left and right without fear of any consequence.
I wasn't against the soft claim idea. It usually stirs up discussion (not the claims themselves, but someone saying something stupid regarding them) and I feel they give very little advantage to the scum.
I think you are talking to Dagger on this one.
And i'll say again, I was against subclaiming when I found out the potental for disguises. We would be giving up info (what ever little it would be) for nothing in return. Sure we lock scum in a claim but if it's provided to them, then what did we really gain?
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I was against the Cyan wagon at the start - it really didn't seem to have much substance, and most of the "evidence" came from DYH and Cyan trying to one up each other and show who was the big man in the game. Cyan's claim is a big point for him, as it is both flavorful and testable. But the resulting pressure forced Cyan to flail a little bit (I hate the term "flail", but it fits here), and I'm convinced now. I would vote, but a couple people said they wanted to wait for a couple of people (including me) to check in, so I'm going to give them that opportunity.
Other random observations-
I'm not sure what RobRoy is getting heat for - soft claim procedure semantics? Doesn't seem like something to get all fired up for.
I appreciate andelijah's posting style - it may be less transparent, but it is a hell of a lot easier to read and follow than the Paragraph Crusades that some people tend to enjoy.
I'm not that surprised by the modkill - Ged said he was taking participation seriously, and letting in a replacement after that firm of a stance would invalidate the entire reasoning for it in the first place.
I'm not a real fan of Abandon Hope. I'm not trying to flame or make a personal attack, but you post like an angry-drunk version of Chamber. It really doesn't help anyone and wastes time when people need to ask for a follow up.
I'm not that surprised by so many "other" claims. My own role is someone I've never heard of, and never heard of the source material.
Sorry again to Ged and everyone for losing track of time. DYH vs. Cyan sucked me in and I lost all sense of time.
I get the feeling that you're not actually reading the thread, or at the very least not carefully.
I agree (and even if you take out the "untargetable" part). You, however, said this:
You seem to be using the fact that we can't confirm him as a point against him.
I feel it is a "how convenient" role.
He provided us with a role that anything about him cannot be verified. Anything else different and we could have a chance at finding out if it's true. He even stated that he wanted to make sure people don't target him with night actions as they would fail.. I feel THIS should have come out earlier when he was first targeted if his role is true. Which is why I dont think it's his role, only something so we wouldn't look at him overnight. (Pending he lived that is.)
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Once again, Cyan hasn't done something until he's called out for it; now he's trying to present an attack on SoP.
@Infinis: Please go point out where Cyan was trying to seriously point out alternate suspects besides those directly attacking him. I don't think you'll have much success.
...I disagree, but would love to know why this is a reason in favor of lynching Cyan...
Could you see any other lynch at this point? Cyan's wagon entire dismantling and then votes piling on another player? If so please share, who.
Nearly from scratch, there have been some clues to investiage other people with. I think the Town thing to do is not to lynch Cyan based on Meta-gaming. I think the town thing to do is to see why he hasn't been lynched yet. JqlGirl, SpotofPrey, and I are not voting Cyan and stated why we're not (not good company to be in admittedly but this doesn't nullify my point). What about the others not voting? At this point, unless we have anymore Carnivale goers then why hasn't Cyan been hammered? TMT, loran16, Dagger, Cubus, If the scum had anyone left not on Cyan's wagon they would've hammered by now, if this is not the case then they have one person in reserve at most.
Once again, Cyan hasn't done something until he's called out for it; now he's trying to present an attack on SoP.
@Infinis: Please go point out where Cyan was trying to seriously point out alternate suspects besides those directly attacking him. I don't think you'll have much success.
So if Cyan thinks any of his attackers are scum, he can't defend himself by attacking them back? How is that remotely fair? IIRC cyan's argument was that the wagon moved en mass from Numegil to him, lead by DYH. In this case, however, his attack of SoP does seem out of nowhere. I'm in no way implying DYH is scum, I'm just stating what I remember to be the gist of Cyan's counterattack.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
So if Cyan thinks any of his attackers are scum, he can't defend himself by attacking them back? How is that remotely fair? IIRC cyan's argument was that the wagon moved en mass from Numegil to him, lead by DYH. In this case, however, his attack of SoP does seem out of nowhere. I'm in no way implying DYH is scum, I'm just stating what I remember to be the gist of Cyan's counterattack.
Answer me this: True/False - Cyan is very likely going to be lynched today.
If you say anything other than True, I'd probably question your sanity.
Now, the point I'm making is that in light of his obvious lynching today he had not bothered to provide any insight on who he thinks is scum. In fact, the only time he did such a thing was to attack those who attacked him outright - and that came way earlier in the thread. Pure OMGUS, which he tried to sell as 'waiting to pounce' on me like he did in TFC. Pretty unbelieveable since he was so disinterested through the first part of the game and that I refuted the points he was trying to make against me.
He's not even attempting to look like a townie, here. If he was, he'd be providing you with all the insight he's managed to garner through this. Instead, he's been harping on how his flavor should clear him, he's telling the truth about his ability, blah blah blah - anything but additional content that might be useful once he's "mis"lynched. It's what scum do in order to avoid leaving paper trails.
He decided to toss out a bone with a lame attack on SoP only after I called him out for that, too. Much like he didn't bother to contribute to the game until the same thing happened.
EBWODP: Investigating why someone hasn't been hammered when others have indicated they need to catch up is pretty well pointless. The only time someone not getting hammered is a true tell is in an endgame situation.
You seem to be missing the point of the Cyan wagon. Yes, it's derived in meta analysis from the start, but his behavior today is simply not indicative of a townie, particularly as I just showed above.
Cyan's claim doesn't really do anything to sway me either way. Untargetability is something that appears on both scum and town, and Elastigirl really means nothing to me. There's no indication of scum/town flavor breakdown or even if there IS any distinguishable breakdown, so saying Elastigirl is obvtown is simply untrue.
I'm fine with proceeding with a lynch. I second the call for our intrepid hero to provide us with his considerations, though.
and suddenly I thought ande might have a point. You've straddled the fence nicely there, wanting Cyan to die while giving yourself some cover if he turns up town.
At this point we would have to start nearly from scratch if anyone but Cyan is lynched. I don't think there is enough "Cyan is town evidence" to warrant sparing him. Fence sitting aside I think he was railroaded by meta-game analyis and based purely on his in game play he hasn't earned my vote yet.
Add me to the list of people who don't like this post. "I don't support the Cyan lynch, but you guys should go ahead with it anyway" is not a helpful position for the town.
I was against the Cyan wagon at the start - it really didn't seem to have much substance, and most of the "evidence" came from DYH and Cyan trying to one up each other and show who was the big man in the game. Cyan's claim is a big point for him, as it is both flavorful and testable. But the resulting pressure forced Cyan to flail a little bit (I hate the term "flail", but it fits here), and I'm convinced now. I would vote, but a couple people said they wanted to wait for a couple of people (including me) to check in, so I'm going to give them that opportunity.
This one doesn't quite strike me the same way as the two above, and I'm not entirely sure why - it hits the same notes of wanting Cyan dead while maintaining plausible deniability, but for some reason the wording doesn't make it jump out at me. On the other hand:
Goatrevolt had a nice little issue-track of RobRoy. Also add in his most recent post on the last page that he thought the soft claim issue was still being decided. Reluctance to get the ball rolling? FOS Robroy
Huh. Well, I'm still confused, but this line of questioning has come about as far as is warranted for my current level of suspicion against you. It seems like this would be a horrible thing to lie about anyway, so I'll just assume that it'll all make sense in the end.
I think the town thing to do is to see why he hasn't been lynched yet. JqlGirl, SpotofPrey, and I are not voting Cyan and stated why we're not (not good company to be in admittedly but this doesn't nullify my point). What about the others not voting? At this point, unless we have anymore Carnivale goers then why hasn't Cyan been hammered? TMT, loran16, Dagger, Cubus, If the scum had anyone left not on Cyan's wagon they would've hammered by now, if this is not the case then they have one person in reserve at most.
Several people (myself included) have stated an intention to vote for Cyan once discussion has tailed off. His wagon isn't dissipating, so the scum haven't had a reason to jump on - if he's going to be lynched eventually, they'd rather not draw attention to themselves.
I feel that we've had some good leads come out of the discussion of the last day, including this talk with you. However, since I do think we should move on with the game, I'll state here that I'm planning on dropping the hammer at 7 am Eastern tomorrow, barring new happenings. That should give people enough time to wrap up their conversations and post thoughts before night.
So if Cyan thinks any of his attackers are scum, he can't defend himself by attacking them back? How is that remotely fair? IIRC cyan's argument was that the wagon moved en mass from Numegil to him, lead by DYH. In this case, however, his attack of SoP does seem out of nowhere. I'm in no way implying DYH is scum, I'm just stating what I remember to be the gist of Cyan's counterattack.
Attacking the attacker instead of attacking the arguement is a logic fallacy that I don't know how to spell.
As for attacking for the sake of actual scum hunting, I think the part you are missing is that Cyan hasn't just limited his attacks to people on his wagon, but he has attacked those people for being on his wagon, usually in response to being called out on his passive nature.
Yes, it could be that he is a townie who legitimately suspects people for their attacks on him, but it looks an awful lot like he's trying to appear to be scum hunting while at the same time discrediting the people who are attacking him. It's a minor point, because it's hard to get that deep into a player's head, but it is a point against him.
That's just slander. For it to be ad hominem, you'd have to use that as a basis for something. For example:
DYH thinks I smell like dirty socks. However, after all the fires he's set, do you really think his nose can smell anything but gasoline? He's obviously not a reliable witness.
That's just slander. For it to be ad hominem, you'd have to use that as a basis for something. For example:
DYH thinks I smell like dirty socks. However, after all the fires he's set, do you really think his nose can smell anything but gasoline? He's obviously not a reliable witness.
As if anyone would let a Kentucky Native teach kids....god, they'd all be stupider than Larry the Cable Guy.
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and suddenly I thought ande might have a point. You've straddled the fence nicely there, wanting Cyan to die while giving yourself some cover if he turns up town.
That post you quoted essentially says this: His role is a null-tell, and his play is scummy, so I want to lynch him. Enlighten us as to how that is straddling the fence in any way. And where have I "given myself cover?"
That post you quoted essentially says this: His role is a null-tell, and his play is scummy, so I want to lynch him. Enlighten us as to how that is straddling the fence in any way. And where have I "given myself cover?"
Hmm... apparently I should have reread your posts before saying things like that. I hadn't remembered you ever justifying your move to the Cyan wagon, but you actually did, in post 515 where you voted for him. Yeah, with earlier reasons given for Cyan being scummy, the post I'd quoted is more a continuation of a thought and not a whole one, and makes more sense as a result. I withdraw the point.
This game came at a really unfortunate time for me. I had overextended myself, as town of course, in Amistarian and keep being wrong. And then CC suicided because of nothing more than my behavior. I legitimately felt bad about that, and resolved immediately to scale back my playstyle. I've made that resolution before, but it's a little different now. Hopefully it sticks. This is particularly an evident example, because even if I want to, I can't take any kind of laidback approach to a game, or I just get railroaded immediately. Oh well, it'll work out over time.
I sincerely think that DYH is scum, though. Maybe the SK. I meant it when I said that he's acting like he does as scum. The examples are all there.
Thank you, TMT's third person self-referencing was confusing the heck out of me... but now it all kinds of sense. If true, he should get some kudos after this game is over.
This game came at a really unfortunate time for me. I had overextended myself, as town of course, in Amistarian and keep being wrong. And then CC suicided because of nothing more than my behavior. I legitimately felt bad about that, and resolved immediately to scale back my playstyle. I've made that resolution before, but it's a little different now. Hopefully it sticks. This is particularly an evident example, because even if I want to, I can't take any kind of laidback approach to a game, or I just get railroaded immediately. Oh well, it'll work out over time.
I sincerely think that DYH is scum, though. Maybe the SK. I meant it when I said that he's acting like he does as scum. The examples are all there.
Nice job on pinning me down, Andelijah. Again.
If you are town, then the next time you're more laid back, you can point to this game as justification. If you're actually scum, but want to play a more mellow game next time, just announce your intention in the signup thread. That way people will know that you mean it, regardless of alignment.
Of course, if you're actually town I think suiciding like this is awfully selfish of you.
I would never suicide as town(not in this sense of the word). Y'all got me.
I really thought my Elastigirl falseclaim would work, too. I'm pretty surprised about that bit.
I'm sure that it'll take some games to adjust my playstyle. I'll probably even get lynched a couple of more times over it, presumably as town in some of them(unless I become Loran 2.0). But that's alright. It's just become too difficult of a playstyle to maintain.
This game came at a really unfortunate time for me. I had overextended myself, as town of course, in Amistarian and keep being wrong. And then CC suicided because of nothing more than my behavior. I legitimately felt bad about that, and resolved immediately to scale back my playstyle. I've made that resolution before, but it's a little different now. Hopefully it sticks. This is particularly an evident example, because even if I want to, I can't take any kind of laidback approach to a game, or I just get railroaded immediately. Oh well, it'll work out over time.
I sincerely think that DYH is scum, though. Maybe the SK. I meant it when I said that he's acting like he does as scum. The examples are all there.
Nice job on pinning me down, Andelijah. Again.
So you're mafia? Damn....i liked that shirt.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
A finger is pointed at Cyan, who looks up. Dusk has settled over Wayne Manor, and the light of the sun is nearly gone. "That's the one."
Cyan is dumbfounded. "Seriously? No way, I'm Elastigirl! I've spent years living here, fighting alongside the rest of you."
"Then prove it." The group decides to test Cyan. DYH grabs his arms, loran16 grabs his legs, and they each pull as hard as they can. Cyan begins to stretch; his arms flatten and thin as they move away from his legs, which do the same. But then...
*POP!*
...Elastigirl snaps in half at the waist. Someone cries out as loran16 and DYH both fall to the ground, a half of a suburban mother on top of each. DYH screams and flails around, batting at the former hero and scrambling away from it as quick as he can. Loran16 is less phased. "Wait a minute," he says, "this is just a suit!" Indeed, it appears that this Elastigirl was merely a plastic suit that crumples, empty and flat on the floor where it was left. "But that would mean..."
A blast of dark and dramatic music cuts into the scene. Cyan stands in the center of the great hall, the final rays of sunlight shining giving him a pristine aura. He stands, looks around the room... and whinnies.
"The Thoroughbred of Sin!"
Cyan snorts and charges loran16, who is still on the floor examining the fake Elastigirl. Loran16 cowers in fear and tries to cover his head, but he needn't fear. As he comes close to the hero on the floor, Cyan is shot from the side with a taser. He's knocked off course, which gives Roja and Dagger enough time to jump at him. But Cyan will not be taken down that easily, and he shakes them off before turning to the door. He paws the ground dramatically, which turns out to be a mistake as it gives enough time for the other 15 heroes to jump him. Down he falls, biting and crying out as he does. He's on his side and pinned, now, a single bloodshot eye gazing malevolently around at those holding him down.
"Your reign of terror ends here, Bad Horse," says CropCircles as he looks down at the majestic creature that lies before him. "Goodnight."
Cyan AKA Badhorse (Mafia Ascetic) has been lynched.
JqlGirl smiles at the taser in her hand, and Alfred remarks that it's always useful to hide a few surprises around one's house. "I prefer to keep such things in vases, myself..." he comments.
Votecount 9 - The End of the Beginning CropCircles - 1 (Dagger)
Cyan - 10 (andelijah, Abandon Hope, The Mad Tapper, DYH, goatrevolt, CropCircles, ~Tilde~, ced395, Roja, Cyan)
DYH - 1 (Cubus)
The Mad Tapper - 1 (loran16)
"Quarters have been made up for all of you. Now it's quite late so I suggest you retire soon, as taking down a horse can make oneself tired. Sleep well, heroes."
It is now night 1. Actions are due by the end of Friday (CST), and day 2 will dawn on Saturday afternoon. These dates could come sooner if I get all actions in early.
A dim morning light peeks in through the windows of Wayne Manor. All is quiet - they say that a true hero never rests, but they're lying. Some heroes are even known to sleep in. They're up all night after all, and you never see evil plans hatched at 2 in the afternoon. Midnight is the name of the game for Doomsday, so Noon is the name of the game for getting up on a Tuesday morning.
A squeaking sound pierces the morning silence, followed by a slow rumble. Something is being pushed through the halls. Alfred stands on the landing of the great hall stairs and gazes into the morning sun. Somewhere below cooks are scrambling eggs and pouring orange juice. The rumble of something moving and the squeak of its wheels come closer, and eventually what appears to be a gigantic round table is rolled into the room. The janitor pushes it to the middle of the great hall, takes of his hat and wipes his forehead, then steps back and pulls out a remote of some kind. A button is pressed, and the table flattens immediately down to a perfect sitting height. Metal clanks around grinding this way and that until 17 chairs unfold from the table's innards. The metallic top glistens in the light of the dawn.
"What kind of gathering of heroes doesn't have an appropriate discussion table?" Alfred mutters to himself. "That's why I'm here, I suppose."
Heroes pour into the hall. Some are sleepy, some are perky, some are hungry. Oddly enough, it seems that Wayne Manor was a good choice of location to get these killings to stop. Everyone who left the hall the day before has returned safe and sound.
There were no deaths last night. It is now Day 2. With 17 alive, it's 9 to lynch.
I would like to give the doctor (or roleblocker or whatever) a :thumbsup::trophy::cookie: for successfully protecting the correct person, keep up the good work!
Anway, I would like to get down to business with a Vote: JqlGirl. I brought up many things yesterday (her uncertainty in regards to the Cyan wagon, the comments she made about her scuminess, etc) and feel a push in her direction would be a great way to start the day.
Well he was scum, so I guess I missed something that everyone else saw. I still don't think there was a solid case on him, no matter what the result.
He makes vague comments about me, nothing really worth commenting on specifically. *shrug* And what did you want me to address from yesterday? It's been a while.
Let me put it this way. You didn't really see anything to address from yesterday, thus agreeing that every point made against you was valid and pointing to the conclusion that you are scum. Are we on the same wavelength here?
Well he was scum, so I guess I missed something that everyone else saw. I still don't think there was a solid case on him, no matter what the result.
LMAO. I absolutely nailed Cyan across the board on all his tells yesterday; the fact you would say this is comical. It almost seems...bitter.
Kinda reminds me of CP in Elegant mafia complaining about the case against him I made there when he was scum.
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I don't remember much about you yesterday; I need to take a look back.
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He makes vague comments about me, nothing really worth commenting on specifically. *shrug* And what did you want me to address from yesterday? It's been a while.
How about you go back and read it? You can use the search function for Dagger's posts and enter jqlgirl as the keyword.
Ged's flavor is off, Bad Horse should've easily mauled all other characters in the game with the possible exception of Doctor Horrible.
No one should survive his terrible terrible death whinny.
Anyhow, my accuracy is suffering greatly. Still suspect TMT and DYH personally, but lets go with Vote SpotofPrey....he was #3 on my list before and Cyan's bit at the end smelled like distancing.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Refreshed from his sleep, TMT joins the morning assembly. A bowl of excessively sugary cereal would be nice, but there's no time for that. There's only time for justice! With super-human strength, TMT bounds to the top of a nearby bookshelf. He stands boldly with his hands on his hips, and prepares to levy his accusations at the next evildoer on the list.
The fiend known as Infinis must go!
He has contributed nothing aside from trying to promote setup speculation (dwelling on Ged's "falseclaims are hard enough" comment) and doing setup speculation himself (theories about rolename themes, hints that he's cooking up a second theory). About the only opinions he's given are a single response to the soft-claim question and a few (imo terrible) responses about Cyan's wagon. He's made a couple of half-hearted jabs at Tilde and Jql, but hasn't done any real scum hunting at all. The only comment he's made toward that end was suggesting that most of the scum were on Cyan's wagon since no one had hammered him.
Infinis has avoided participating aside from some weak speculation, weak jabs at a couple of players, and major waffling regarding Cyan's wagon. His behavior is not heroic, and he must be dealt with. The villain must pay!
TMT fixes Infinis with an intense stare. Gadgets were sufficient for the first day, but now it's time to show these people his real power! Suddenly, a pair of bright red voterrion beams shoot from his eyes, striking the scoundrel square in the chest.
One I'm pretty DTF with, frankly. I felt a bad twinge when I saw him join the crusade against Jqlgirl once I'd posted that previous note.
I can't believe "DTF" has stuck as a mafia term.
Also, a SomeOne wagon is not something i'm against here...he had one post yesterday that seemed townie-ish to me, but he had a whole bunch of others that simply read as ...well, fake. Not sure how to describe it, its like i thought one of AH's posts in smalltown...was just not genuine.
Posts in question are 195 and 197, which feel...wrong. 271 also feels wrong like he's making up points against DYH to support his fence sitting, while seemingly trying to stay on DYH's good side.
Hmmm, tough call. Screw it, Unvote, Vote SomeOne. Spotofprey has struck me as scummy, and the distancing by Cyan at the end is fishy as all hell, but i can jump back on him when he posts more.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Ged's flavor is off, Bad Horse should've easily mauled all other characters in the game with the possible exception of Doctor Horrible.
No one should survive his terrible terrible death whinny.
Anyhow, my accuracy is suffering greatly. Still suspect TMT and DYH personally, but lets go with Vote SpotofPrey....he was #3 on my list before and Cyan's bit at the end smelled like distancing.
Are you just intentionally playing horribly?
Historically, when I bus a scum buddy, it's a newer player I expect is about to implode (Charm_Master), or in desperation to save another (Ged w/ Dagger). If you seriously think that was a bus job on Cyan, you're out of your mind. That wagon had died, and I brought the crusade back on board once I counted enough support to get him to claim range (which incidentally, RR trying to take credit yesterday for the Cyan wagon coming back is part of my huge reason of suspicion on him - post 574, response to CC). If you think I'm a possible SK, I can eliminate that possibility for you when the time is right, but it's pretty irrelevant.
Secondly, the fact you would even reference Cyan's post about SoP at all is ridiculous. The entire thing is WIFOM created out of the fact I'd called Cyan out for not bothering to speculate on who could be scum besides me and CC - who are both very obviously town.
You very clearly need to re-read this entire game in a different mindset, or you're scum. Which one is it?
EWP: I see you've changed your vote. That's a good start.
One I'm pretty DTF with, frankly. I felt a bad twinge when I saw him join the crusade against Jqlgirl once I'd posted that previous note.
I expressed my suspicions of Jql yesterday, and even said I wouldn't be suprised if she was a scumbuddy of Cyan. Thus, why should you feel a twinge when I cast a vote on her today?
I expressed my suspicions of Jql yesterday, and even said I wouldn't be suprised if she was a scumbuddy of Cyan. Thus, why should you feel a twinge when I cast a vote on her today?
No. I'm ultra competitive, remember? I like to be right. Does seem like some misreads lately though.
Secondly, the fact you would even reference Cyan's post about SoP at all is ridiculous. The entire thing is WIFOM created out of the fact I'd called Cyan out for not bothering to speculate on who could be scum besides me and CC - who are both very obviously town.
The Cyan bit is totally WIFOM. Of course it is. But i was leaning towards scum on SpotofPrey ANYHOW yesterday (see my list) and after reflection i'd like to go at him sometime today if he doesn't post anything that has content and reads town. or at least doesn't read as scummy.
You very clearly need to re-read this entire game in a different mindset, or you're scum. Which one is it?
I'm not scum, and am hoping my mindset toward scumhunting isn't THAT off.
NINJA EDIT: Wow, that's a poor vote by TMT.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I use Crest so ain't no cavity creeps in my grill.
Anyhow, hey Loran, what's wrong with TMT's vote?
Infinis is soooo town. Completely useless town to be sure. But his curiosity about the setup and the theory he conjectured indicates he truly is a sidekick and thought everyone was sidekicks, something that seems improbable if he was mafia (Bad Horse is not a sidekick).
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Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Infinis is soooo town. Completely useless town to be sure. But his curiosity about the setup and the theory he conjectured indicates he truly is a sidekick and thought everyone was sidekicks, something that seems improbable if he was mafia (Bad Horse is not a sidekick).
That's a good theory, and one I'd honestly not considered. It's enough to convince me Infinis is the least likely scum from the Cyan-holdout group.
Infinis is soooo town. Completely useless town to be sure. But his curiosity about the setup and the theory he conjectured indicates he truly is a sidekick and thought everyone was sidekicks, something that seems improbable if he was mafia (Bad Horse is not a sidekick).
This assertion seems reasonable, though it completely ignores the possibility of him being neutral (which I indeed suggested yesterday toward the end). His behavior does not feel like "useless town" to me. It doesn't feel town at all. I am quite confident that he is not on our side.
I'm not saying he should have lied. I am saying that his playstyle vrs his role isn't really matching up to what we have sceen with Cyan.
You are correct.
We have seen Cyan play as "untargetability", NOTHING is showing us the same style of play. Cyan is aggressive (As shown in FF7 mafia).Are you saying that SK untargetable Cyan will be way more aggressive then say a Townie untargetable Cyan? When all of my findings show that Cyan is MORE active when he is a townie rather then a scum. When here he was quite until someone mentioned him. It really dosen't all add up.
In theory, if Cyan is a townie untargetable player, we should have seen him ripping people left and right without fear of any consequence.
I think you are talking to Dagger on this one.
And i'll say again, I was against subclaiming when I found out the potental for disguises. We would be giving up info (what ever little it would be) for nothing in return. Sure we lock scum in a claim but if it's provided to them, then what did we really gain?
I disagree, but would love to know why this is a reason in favor of lynching Cyan.
I agree (and even if you take out the "untargetable" part). You, however, said this:
You seem to be using the fact that we can't confirm him as a point against him.
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last updated 03/23/11
I feel it is a "how convenient" role.
He provided us with a role that anything about him cannot be verified. Anything else different and we could have a chance at finding out if it's true. He even stated that he wanted to make sure people don't target him with night actions as they would fail.. I feel THIS should have come out earlier when he was first targeted if his role is true. Which is why I dont think it's his role, only something so we wouldn't look at him overnight. (Pending he lived that is.)
@Infinis: Please go point out where Cyan was trying to seriously point out alternate suspects besides those directly attacking him. I don't think you'll have much success.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Could you see any other lynch at this point? Cyan's wagon entire dismantling and then votes piling on another player? If so please share, who.
Nearly from scratch, there have been some clues to investiage other people with. I think the Town thing to do is not to lynch Cyan based on Meta-gaming. I think the town thing to do is to see why he hasn't been lynched yet. JqlGirl, SpotofPrey, and I are not voting Cyan and stated why we're not (not good company to be in admittedly but this doesn't nullify my point). What about the others not voting? At this point, unless we have anymore Carnivale goers then why hasn't Cyan been hammered? TMT, loran16, Dagger, Cubus, If the scum had anyone left not on Cyan's wagon they would've hammered by now, if this is not the case then they have one person in reserve at most.
So if Cyan thinks any of his attackers are scum, he can't defend himself by attacking them back? How is that remotely fair? IIRC cyan's argument was that the wagon moved en mass from Numegil to him, lead by DYH. In this case, however, his attack of SoP does seem out of nowhere. I'm in no way implying DYH is scum, I'm just stating what I remember to be the gist of Cyan's counterattack.
12-11? I'm losing track
Answer me this: True/False - Cyan is very likely going to be lynched today.
If you say anything other than True, I'd probably question your sanity.
Now, the point I'm making is that in light of his obvious lynching today he had not bothered to provide any insight on who he thinks is scum. In fact, the only time he did such a thing was to attack those who attacked him outright - and that came way earlier in the thread. Pure OMGUS, which he tried to sell as 'waiting to pounce' on me like he did in TFC. Pretty unbelieveable since he was so disinterested through the first part of the game and that I refuted the points he was trying to make against me.
He's not even attempting to look like a townie, here. If he was, he'd be providing you with all the insight he's managed to garner through this. Instead, he's been harping on how his flavor should clear him, he's telling the truth about his ability, blah blah blah - anything but additional content that might be useful once he's "mis"lynched. It's what scum do in order to avoid leaving paper trails.
He decided to toss out a bone with a lame attack on SoP only after I called him out for that, too. Much like he didn't bother to contribute to the game until the same thing happened.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
You seem to be missing the point of the Cyan wagon. Yes, it's derived in meta analysis from the start, but his behavior today is simply not indicative of a townie, particularly as I just showed above.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
If you'll remember, I was actually defending your right to make wishy-washy posts with andelijah, but then you posted this:
and suddenly I thought ande might have a point. You've straddled the fence nicely there, wanting Cyan to die while giving yourself some cover if he turns up town.
Add me to the list of people who don't like this post. "I don't support the Cyan lynch, but you guys should go ahead with it anyway" is not a helpful position for the town.
This one doesn't quite strike me the same way as the two above, and I'm not entirely sure why - it hits the same notes of wanting Cyan dead while maintaining plausible deniability, but for some reason the wording doesn't make it jump out at me. On the other hand:
A bit inconsistent, there.
Huh. Well, I'm still confused, but this line of questioning has come about as far as is warranted for my current level of suspicion against you. It seems like this would be a horrible thing to lie about anyway, so I'll just assume that it'll all make sense in the end.
Several people (myself included) have stated an intention to vote for Cyan once discussion has tailed off. His wagon isn't dissipating, so the scum haven't had a reason to jump on - if he's going to be lynched eventually, they'd rather not draw attention to themselves.
I feel that we've had some good leads come out of the discussion of the last day, including this talk with you. However, since I do think we should move on with the game, I'll state here that I'm planning on dropping the hammer at 7 am Eastern tomorrow, barring new happenings. That should give people enough time to wrap up their conversations and post thoughts before night.
As for attacking for the sake of actual scum hunting, I think the part you are missing is that Cyan hasn't just limited his attacks to people on his wagon, but he has attacked those people for being on his wagon, usually in response to being called out on his passive nature.
Yes, it could be that he is a townie who legitimately suspects people for their attacks on him, but it looks an awful lot like he's trying to appear to be scum hunting while at the same time discrediting the people who are attacking him. It's a minor point, because it's hard to get that deep into a player's head, but it is a point against him.
[The Family]
ad hominem. It's probably the most prominent logical fallacy in mafia games.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
That's just slander. For it to be ad hominem, you'd have to use that as a basis for something. For example:
DYH thinks I smell like dirty socks. However, after all the fires he's set, do you really think his nose can smell anything but gasoline? He's obviously not a reliable witness.
Leave it to the Canadian to ruin the joke.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Like an arsonist knows how to tell a joke.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
As if anyone would let a Kentucky Native teach kids....god, they'd all be stupider than Larry the Cable Guy.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
That post you quoted essentially says this: His role is a null-tell, and his play is scummy, so I want to lynch him. Enlighten us as to how that is straddling the fence in any way. And where have I "given myself cover?"
Second the question to RobRoy from Goatrevolt.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Hmm... apparently I should have reread your posts before saying things like that. I hadn't remembered you ever justifying your move to the Cyan wagon, but you actually did, in post 515 where you voted for him. Yeah, with earlier reasons given for Cyan being scummy, the post I'd quoted is more a continuation of a thought and not a whole one, and makes more sense as a result. I withdraw the point.
Unvote, Vote Cyan
This game came at a really unfortunate time for me. I had overextended myself, as town of course, in Amistarian and keep being wrong. And then CC suicided because of nothing more than my behavior. I legitimately felt bad about that, and resolved immediately to scale back my playstyle. I've made that resolution before, but it's a little different now. Hopefully it sticks. This is particularly an evident example, because even if I want to, I can't take any kind of laidback approach to a game, or I just get railroaded immediately. Oh well, it'll work out over time.
I sincerely think that DYH is scum, though. Maybe the SK. I meant it when I said that he's acting like he does as scum. The examples are all there.
Nice job on pinning me down, Andelijah. Again.
Thank you, TMT's third person self-referencing was confusing the heck out of me... but now it all kinds of sense. If true, he should get some kudos after this game is over.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
If you are town, then the next time you're more laid back, you can point to this game as justification. If you're actually scum, but want to play a more mellow game next time, just announce your intention in the signup thread. That way people will know that you mean it, regardless of alignment.
Of course, if you're actually town I think suiciding like this is awfully selfish of you.
We'll find out for sure in a little bit.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
I really thought my Elastigirl falseclaim would work, too. I'm pretty surprised about that bit.
I'm sure that it'll take some games to adjust my playstyle. I'll probably even get lynched a couple of more times over it, presumably as town in some of them(unless I become Loran 2.0). But that's alright. It's just become too difficult of a playstyle to maintain.
So you're mafia? Damn....i liked that shirt.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
A finger is pointed at Cyan, who looks up. Dusk has settled over Wayne Manor, and the light of the sun is nearly gone. "That's the one."
Cyan is dumbfounded. "Seriously? No way, I'm Elastigirl! I've spent years living here, fighting alongside the rest of you."
"Then prove it." The group decides to test Cyan. DYH grabs his arms, loran16 grabs his legs, and they each pull as hard as they can. Cyan begins to stretch; his arms flatten and thin as they move away from his legs, which do the same. But then...
*POP!*
...Elastigirl snaps in half at the waist. Someone cries out as loran16 and DYH both fall to the ground, a half of a suburban mother on top of each. DYH screams and flails around, batting at the former hero and scrambling away from it as quick as he can. Loran16 is less phased. "Wait a minute," he says, "this is just a suit!" Indeed, it appears that this Elastigirl was merely a plastic suit that crumples, empty and flat on the floor where it was left. "But that would mean..."
A blast of dark and dramatic music cuts into the scene. Cyan stands in the center of the great hall, the final rays of sunlight shining giving him a pristine aura. He stands, looks around the room... and whinnies.
"The Thoroughbred of Sin!"
Cyan snorts and charges loran16, who is still on the floor examining the fake Elastigirl. Loran16 cowers in fear and tries to cover his head, but he needn't fear. As he comes close to the hero on the floor, Cyan is shot from the side with a taser. He's knocked off course, which gives Roja and Dagger enough time to jump at him. But Cyan will not be taken down that easily, and he shakes them off before turning to the door. He paws the ground dramatically, which turns out to be a mistake as it gives enough time for the other 15 heroes to jump him. Down he falls, biting and crying out as he does. He's on his side and pinned, now, a single bloodshot eye gazing malevolently around at those holding him down.
"Your reign of terror ends here, Bad Horse," says CropCircles as he looks down at the majestic creature that lies before him. "Goodnight."
Cyan AKA Badhorse (Mafia Ascetic) has been lynched.
JqlGirl smiles at the taser in her hand, and Alfred remarks that it's always useful to hide a few surprises around one's house. "I prefer to keep such things in vases, myself..." he comments.
Votecount 9 - The End of the Beginning
CropCircles - 1 (Dagger)
Cyan - 10 (andelijah, Abandon Hope, The Mad Tapper, DYH, goatrevolt, CropCircles, ~Tilde~, ced395, Roja, Cyan)
DYH - 1 (Cubus)
The Mad Tapper - 1 (loran16)
"Quarters have been made up for all of you. Now it's quite late so I suggest you retire soon, as taking down a horse can make oneself tired. Sleep well, heroes."
It is now night 1. Actions are due by the end of Friday (CST), and day 2 will dawn on Saturday afternoon. These dates could come sooner if I get all actions in early.
A squeaking sound pierces the morning silence, followed by a slow rumble. Something is being pushed through the halls. Alfred stands on the landing of the great hall stairs and gazes into the morning sun. Somewhere below cooks are scrambling eggs and pouring orange juice. The rumble of something moving and the squeak of its wheels come closer, and eventually what appears to be a gigantic round table is rolled into the room. The janitor pushes it to the middle of the great hall, takes of his hat and wipes his forehead, then steps back and pulls out a remote of some kind. A button is pressed, and the table flattens immediately down to a perfect sitting height. Metal clanks around grinding this way and that until 17 chairs unfold from the table's innards. The metallic top glistens in the light of the dawn.
"What kind of gathering of heroes doesn't have an appropriate discussion table?" Alfred mutters to himself. "That's why I'm here, I suppose."
Heroes pour into the hall. Some are sleepy, some are perky, some are hungry. Oddly enough, it seems that Wayne Manor was a good choice of location to get these killings to stop. Everyone who left the hall the day before has returned safe and sound.
There were no deaths last night. It is now Day 2. With 17 alive, it's 9 to lynch.
I have a rough idea of who I'm going after next. But time to pick up some left-over issues from yesterday and a reread of Cyan in first.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
You're welcome.
Love, CC
[The Family]
What were you wrong about Cyan yesterday?
That implies you agree whole-heartedly with said observations?
And you never really did address my posts yesterday.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Call it a hunch.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Anway, I would like to get down to business with a Vote: JqlGirl. I brought up many things yesterday (her uncertainty in regards to the Cyan wagon, the comments she made about her scuminess, etc) and feel a push in her direction would be a great way to start the day.
Let me put it this way. You didn't really see anything to address from yesterday, thus agreeing that every point made against you was valid and pointing to the conclusion that you are scum. Are we on the same wavelength here?
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
LMAO. I absolutely nailed Cyan across the board on all his tells yesterday; the fact you would say this is comical. It almost seems...bitter.
Kinda reminds me of CP in Elegant mafia complaining about the case against him I made there when he was scum.
FoS: JqlGirl
I don't remember much about you yesterday; I need to take a look back.
How about you go back and read it? You can use the search function for Dagger's posts and enter jqlgirl as the keyword.
@dagger: Crest or Colgate?
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Call it a vote.
[The Family]
No one should survive his terrible terrible death whinny.
Anyhow, my accuracy is suffering greatly. Still suspect TMT and DYH personally, but lets go with Vote SpotofPrey....he was #3 on my list before and Cyan's bit at the end smelled like distancing.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
One I'm pretty DTF with, frankly. I felt a bad twinge when I saw him join the crusade against Jqlgirl once I'd posted that previous note.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
The fiend known as Infinis must go!
He has contributed nothing aside from trying to promote setup speculation (dwelling on Ged's "falseclaims are hard enough" comment) and doing setup speculation himself (theories about rolename themes, hints that he's cooking up a second theory). About the only opinions he's given are a single response to the soft-claim question and a few (imo terrible) responses about Cyan's wagon. He's made a couple of half-hearted jabs at Tilde and Jql, but hasn't done any real scum hunting at all. The only comment he's made toward that end was suggesting that most of the scum were on Cyan's wagon since no one had hammered him.
Infinis has avoided participating aside from some weak speculation, weak jabs at a couple of players, and major waffling regarding Cyan's wagon. His behavior is not heroic, and he must be dealt with. The villain must pay!
TMT fixes Infinis with an intense stare. Gadgets were sufficient for the first day, but now it's time to show these people his real power! Suddenly, a pair of bright red voterrion beams shoot from his eyes, striking the scoundrel square in the chest.
vote Infinis
Record: 3-2
Simpsons Mafia (Newbie) - Vanilla Mafia - Win
The Fiasco Corporation - Town Reporter - Loss
Doomsday Mafia - Mafia Roleblocker - Win
Battle Royale Mafia - Serial Daykiller - Loss
Danger City Mafia - Vanilla Town - Win
I can't believe "DTF" has stuck as a mafia term.
Also, a SomeOne wagon is not something i'm against here...he had one post yesterday that seemed townie-ish to me, but he had a whole bunch of others that simply read as ...well, fake. Not sure how to describe it, its like i thought one of AH's posts in smalltown...was just not genuine.
Posts in question are 195 and 197, which feel...wrong. 271 also feels wrong like he's making up points against DYH to support his fence sitting, while seemingly trying to stay on DYH's good side.
Hmmm, tough call. Screw it, Unvote, Vote SomeOne. Spotofprey has struck me as scummy, and the distancing by Cyan at the end is fishy as all hell, but i can jump back on him when he posts more.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Are you just intentionally playing horribly?
Historically, when I bus a scum buddy, it's a newer player I expect is about to implode (Charm_Master), or in desperation to save another (Ged w/ Dagger). If you seriously think that was a bus job on Cyan, you're out of your mind. That wagon had died, and I brought the crusade back on board once I counted enough support to get him to claim range (which incidentally, RR trying to take credit yesterday for the Cyan wagon coming back is part of my huge reason of suspicion on him - post 574, response to CC). If you think I'm a possible SK, I can eliminate that possibility for you when the time is right, but it's pretty irrelevant.
Secondly, the fact you would even reference Cyan's post about SoP at all is ridiculous. The entire thing is WIFOM created out of the fact I'd called Cyan out for not bothering to speculate on who could be scum besides me and CC - who are both very obviously town.
You very clearly need to re-read this entire game in a different mindset, or you're scum. Which one is it?
EWP: I see you've changed your vote. That's a good start.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I expressed my suspicions of Jql yesterday, and even said I wouldn't be suprised if she was a scumbuddy of Cyan. Thus, why should you feel a twinge when I cast a vote on her today?
It feels too easy. Gut call, really.
Mild twinge from the doc/RB comment, to boot.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Colgate. I didn't even know the existence of Crest till you brought it up in your post.
And since people have started posting a lot, I'll just finish up what I promised earlier first.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
No. I'm ultra competitive, remember? I like to be right. Does seem like some misreads lately though.
The Cyan bit is totally WIFOM. Of course it is. But i was leaning towards scum on SpotofPrey ANYHOW yesterday (see my list) and after reflection i'd like to go at him sometime today if he doesn't post anything that has content and reads town. or at least doesn't read as scummy.
I'm not scum, and am hoping my mindset toward scumhunting isn't THAT off.
NINJA EDIT: Wow, that's a poor vote by TMT.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Anyhow, hey Loran, what's wrong with TMT's vote?
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Infinis is soooo town. Completely useless town to be sure. But his curiosity about the setup and the theory he conjectured indicates he truly is a sidekick and thought everyone was sidekicks, something that seems improbable if he was mafia (Bad Horse is not a sidekick).
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
That's a good theory, and one I'd honestly not considered. It's enough to convince me Infinis is the least likely scum from the Cyan-holdout group.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
This assertion seems reasonable, though it completely ignores the possibility of him being neutral (which I indeed suggested yesterday toward the end). His behavior does not feel like "useless town" to me. It doesn't feel town at all. I am quite confident that he is not on our side.
Record: 3-2
Simpsons Mafia (Newbie) - Vanilla Mafia - Win
The Fiasco Corporation - Town Reporter - Loss
Doomsday Mafia - Mafia Roleblocker - Win
Battle Royale Mafia - Serial Daykiller - Loss
Danger City Mafia - Vanilla Town - Win