Or the person could be really really bad in a post and be scum to the point of which both players drop what they're doing and vote him (Regardless of whether they're both town, scum or some mix).
Such a lack of interest in the prompting post is...curious.
I'm using the evidence at hand to make an opinion. I'm not sure what you're whining about.
Quote from ~Tilde~ »
Is Ged being consistent with the player and not the role, or did JqlGirl give some "questionable" info in that soft claim?
I'm sure the mod will avoid giving any role information out in flavor scenes, claimed or otherwise.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
Unvote Thank you Ged. Though I wonder why Cyan and Andelijah felt they had to answer a simple question that wasn't directed at them, especially when I expected a quick response from you.
Unvote Thank you Ged. Though I wonder why Cyan and Andelijah felt they had to answer a simple question that wasn't directed at them, especially when I expected a quick response from you.
Because it was a dumb question. If you really wanted a quick response from Ged, there is a pm system you can use. If you don't want public answers, don't ask public questions.
I was not, initially, in support of a Nume push, but the fact that he didn't defend himself is telling. I'll wait to say more until he responds himself.
I voted Numegil in hopes of getting him to post. If he posts anything resembling reasonable content in the next couple of days, I will likely remove my vote.
I don't like the method of voting for someone to get them to post. I prefer the method of asking for a MOD PROD as it HAS been about 4 days with no posting from Numegil. Who has some answering to do.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks goes out to DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja
I was not, initially, in support of a Nume push, but the fact that he didn't defend himself is telling. I'll wait to say more until he responds himself.
Pshht. I had mistaken Infinis for Nume, and thought he just posted without a defense. Retract the above statement.
Should be: I do not support a Nume push, but I will let him defend himself before I elaborate.
That just leaves Abandon Hope without a soft claim. Has this helped you out in any way DYH, or will we have to wait until tomorrow before you enlighten us further?
I missed this earlier. I'm not sure why you think this was going to be at all helpful today before someone has to fully claim or that I would have anything tomorrow to "enlighten" you with. I laid out the pros of the soft-claiming plan, and it's got nothing to do with some revelation I can make out of it for you. It's simply accomplished locking scums into a smaller range of potential false-claims.
I'd simply like Numegil to post and put forward some opinions. This garbage about not liking day one and not having played with anyone, offering to vote only with the majority if he likes it; yeah, that's not going to cut it. I want his thoughts out in the open.
I really dislike RobRoy's contributions thus far, but he at least has some opinions on the page - however high-level. Once Numegil joins the party, my vote will likely be moving to RR.
Spotofprey's last post should hardly be counted as such. Yeah, what AH said was rude, but there's been way more going on that you need to speak about.
Not real thrilled with Infinis' content, either.
To those of you not contibuting - quit being so lazy.
I prefer the method of asking for a MOD PROD as it HAS been about 4 days with no posting from Numegil. Who has some answering to do.
I neglected to mention in the previous scene that Numegil had been prodded. Everyone is again reminded that posting once every three days is the minimum accepted level of activity.
Because it was a dumb question. If you really wanted a quick response from Ged, there is a pm system you can use. If you don't want public answers, don't ask public questions.
I wanted a quick public clarification from the mod on that issue. If I hadn't brought that point up right then, it might have gone unnoticed. At least until another player decides to do a reread in day 4 or something, sees this and uses it as the basis of a case.
My way, it got resolved with swiftly, publicly and without bias.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
It is pointless to unvote someone you no longer wish to lynch or pressure?
That's not conducive to how mafia is played.
I wasn't complaining about the content, but about the style. You posted to pull a vote off him without reason, while promising further content. It just seems odd to me to do that in a situation where there wasn't really any time pressure - something that I'd expect you to know if you'd read enough to decide that Cyan was no longer worthy of pressure.
Theory officially dead, I thought it was obvious who you were and it wasn't Rorschach. Guess Fail on me because R male DC in Wayne Manor...
Next question: is a claim of Rorschach really a positive in this game? Obviously something that we won't be able to answer that well until we see a dead body or two, but I could honestly see Rorschach as a SK, or part of a mafia made up of "heroes" who disagree with the methods of the rest of us.
"Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise."
Apologies for the lack of content that several people have commented on. I plan on doing a full reread over the next day to bring my notes up to date and take a look at the Cyan wagon.
Is a claim of Rorschach really a positive in this game? Obviously something that we won't be able to answer that well until we see a dead body or two, but I could honestly see Rorschach as a SK, or part of a mafia made up of "heroes" who disagree with the methods of the rest of us.
It's a neutral tell in my book. Rorschach can be pigeon-holed into so many potential roles that it's up for grabs whether it's a town or scum role.
My first impression for that role would be Paranoid Cop though.
I wanted a quick public clarification from the mod on that issue. If I hadn't brought that point up right then, it might have gone unnoticed. At least until another player decides to do a reread in day 4 or something, sees this and uses it as the basis of a case.
My way, it got resolved with swiftly, publicly and without bias.
You're right, the answer came in the next post. And if you look closely, you'll see that I make no mention of the fact that Jqlgirl is my scumbuddy.
TMT sighs in frustration. It's begun. Names revealed. Suspicions cast. Boundless speculations. Why do they do this? Rorscach has exposed himself, and now the chaos begins. "He could be a serial killer!" "Maybe he's a paranoid cop!" Is it too late to stop things from spiraling into utter madness? The answer could only be in one place. TMT dashes out of the room in search of a cookie jar!
I wasn't complaining about the content, but about the style. You posted to pull a vote off him without reason, while promising further content. It just seems odd to me to do that in a situation where there wasn't really any time pressure - something that I'd expect you to know if you'd read enough to decide that Cyan was no longer worthy of pressure.
You act like I was the only vote on Cyan.
The fact that he wasn't in claim range doesn't mean it was meaningless to unvote him. I was reading from my phone, felt I didn't want to keep my vote on him, so I unvoted. There's nothing wrong with that, and I'm not sure I even understand where you are coming from.
Next question: is a claim of Rorschach really a positive in this game? Obviously something that we won't be able to answer that well until we see a dead body or two, but I could honestly see Rorschach as a SK, or part of a mafia made up of "heroes" who disagree with the methods of the rest of us.
"Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise."
And he comes out slinging... mud.
We have no information here (and no, this is not a call to divulge). There might as well be a blank where it says Rorschach. Let's focus elsewhere.
The fact that he wasn't in claim range doesn't mean it was meaningless to unvote him. I was reading from my phone, felt I didn't want to keep my vote on him, so I unvoted. There's nothing wrong with that, and I'm not sure I even understand where you are coming from.
Option 1: you had understood the thread well enough to know that you didn't want pressure on Cyan. You should have also recognized that the votes on Cyan were slipping, so your unvote could wait until you could post reasons along with it and provide more content.
Option 2: you hadn't understood enough to see that you didn't want pressure on Cyan. That implies that you had a reason to take your vote off him that wasn't rooted in analysis. There are a limited number of possible other reasons, most of which don't cast you in a good light.
Option 1: you had understood the thread well enough to know that you didn't want pressure on Cyan. You should have also recognized that the votes on Cyan were slipping, so your unvote could wait until you could post reasons along with it and provide more content.
Option 2: you hadn't understood enough to see that you didn't want pressure on Cyan. That implies that you had a reason to take your vote off him that wasn't rooted in analysis. There are a limited number of possible other reasons, most of which don't cast you in a good light.
Savvy?
I feel like this post is reaching pretty badly.
However, I don't think it's suspicious. RR's motivations seem genuine.
Option 1: you had understood the thread well enough to know that you didn't want pressure on Cyan. You should have also recognized that the votes on Cyan were slipping, so your unvote could wait until you could post reasons along with it and provide more content.
But what's wrong with unvoting when I did? You absolutely fail to give a reason with why it was wrong. Sure, it could have waited. Or I could unvote as soon as I no longer wish to vote, regardless of what other players are doing.
I have no idea what RobRoy is getting at exactly, although what CC has said here doesn't jive with the reaction I initially got from his Unvote post. I felt like CC thought I'd given up thinking Cyan was scum - which wasn't the case. It did make me wonder why he jumped off at that point, and now I'm really curious.
I have no idea what RobRoy is getting at exactly, although what CC has said here doesn't jive with the reaction I initially got from his Unvote post. I felt like CC thought I'd given up thinking Cyan was scum - which wasn't the case. It did make me wonder why he jumped off at that point, and now I'm really curious.
When I first read your "backing off" post(from my phone, as I said), it made me feel more like this was just scum distancing. I unvoted with the intent to come home and re-read, which I did, and didn't really come to a conclusion one way or the other. I've been focusing on trying to dig up other leads, and leaving the two of you alone for now.
When I first read your "backing off" post(from my phone, as I said), it made me feel more like this was just scum distancing. I unvoted with the intent to come home and re-read, which I did, and didn't really come to a conclusion one way or the other. I've been focusing on trying to dig up other leads, and leaving the two of you alone for now.
That answer your question?
It answered mine, thanks.
About 2/3rds done my reread, but won't be able to finish tonight. Look for something on Cyan et al. from me tomorrow morning.
Theory officially dead, I thought it was obvious who you were and it wasn't Rorschach. Guess Fail on me because R male DC in Wayne Manor...
I really don't like how Infinis got Cubus to claim and then instantly backed away on it. Mostly because of a "theory".. granted I assumed Cubus was Robin as well however I didn't need him to name claim to confrim/deny it.
What was your theory Infinis? Why was it so important for you to know about Cubus?
And Cubus why the info so sudden? Do you really think Infinis had something about you?
I will make my own opinion on GR after he has responded to my posts, tyvm, instead of people telling me how townie they see him.
I don't really favor the wagon on Numegil basing on the fact he was lurking. On the content of his post, I would rather see his response first before doing anything.
I voted Numegil in hopes of getting him to post. If he posts anything resembling reasonable content in the next couple of days, I will likely remove my vote.
I was of the impression you won't vote someone unless you have "solid evidence" that he or she is scum, to prevent lynching a townie based on "ghosts and vapors" on Day 1. You earlier gave me the impression you are not one to wield your vote around recklessly, and now you voted Numegil based on his lack of content? Here in #326, you stated your agreement with Numegil's point of view, a point quite a few on Numegil's wagon are citing as the basis for their votes. So, from what I could gather, you were voting Numegil based on him lurking and not based on his posts?
Next question: is a claim of Rorschach really a positive in this game? Obviously something that we won't be able to answer that well until we see a dead body or two, but I could honestly see Rorschach as a SK, or part of a mafia made up of "heroes" who disagree with the methods of the rest of us.
"Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise."
I don't understand your intention in clarifying Cubus' rolename? What exactly did you expect to hear? A green light from the town to go after Cubus? It's like you are deliberately speculating openly about his rolename in order to gauge how the town would react to it? But if you are town yourself, you could have just directly stated your opinion on it, instead of asking it aloud for the town to answer?
I don't really favor the wagon on Numegil basing on the fact he was lurking. On the content of his post, I would rather see his response first before doing anything.
I'm pretty sure at this point he is going to be replaced, but, in the case he does happen to come back, he should definitely answer the questions and address the points that were brought up.
That's exactly what I'm doing. My vote was an attempt at a non-mod prodding in order to shake Numegil out of his somnolescence. It doesn't seem to be working though.
Anyway, I don't think he should be lynched based purely on lurking, but he needs to post something, damn it. If he responds to the modprod with some decent content or gets replaced, I'll take my vote off of him.
If that's exactly what you're doing, then you're contradicting the post below?
This, however, doesn't solve the issue of having to vote based on ghosts and vapours on Day 1 and having a high chance of lynching a townie who's just playing scummy (like I have been victim to in several games.)
By your statement, lurking is playing scummy. But if he is town, wouldn't that fall into a mislynch you so feared? Whatever happened to only following the below stance?
Well the best we could hope for on day 1 would be some sort of contested claim, but barring that, just some sort of glaring contradiction in someone's arguments or between their arguments and their behaviour.
You did not indicate lurking as a "solid evidence" here?
My problem is this: You gave a series of arguments about how superficial the cases on Cyan and DYH are, and how you would only really pursue a solid case in order to avoid a mislynch. And then you went and voted Numegil just because he lurked?
On Cyan and company. Largest wagon: DYH, andelijah, ced395, CropCircles, ~Tilde~, TMT, Roja.
There were a few interesting things I found about Cyan and the wagon on reread. First, I think that I'd probably have been on the wagon had Battle Royale ended when the wagon was going. My reasoning for not thinking him scum is explained here:
While Cyan has, to my recollection, been in every one of my games so far on this site, I still can't read him properly. He always looks scummy to me - I've so far thought he was scum while townie, SK, and mafia.
The "mafia" in there was from BR, but as was shown after BR ended, Cyan actually didn't realize he was mafia in that one, impressive as that was. Armed with that knowledge, I'd likely have joined in to force Cyan to claim.
Secondly, there never seemed to be an agreement of any kind that Cyan was no longer worthy of pressure. The partial mass-claim came up at around that time and everyone went with that, which caused a fair bit of discussion on other topics. Roja had already unvoted after being scorned for his vote rationale, and while he promised a reread on Cyan and DYH one has not materialized. ced395 unvoted as he was going to be away, and hasn't really been able to contribute much of anything since. CropCircles did the unvote that I was questioning him about, with not much reason provided until later, and after DYH moved his vote over to Numegil the wagon was pretty much over despite Cyan not having done or said anything in his defence since before the wagon really hit its stride.
Third, Dagger caught my eye on reread, due to this post. This was done at the peak of the Cyan wagon. The logic here is somewhat questionable. Dagger claims to be in support of a push against Cyan, and mentions forcing a claim, but wants to talk about getting the mass-claim out of the way first. Why is that? I'd think that at the least, he'd want Cyan to be the first to do the partial claim - why would you want to give the person you're most suspicious of more information before forcing a claim out of them? His later posts continue to be critical of Cyan, but he never places a vote on Cyan or makes an attempt to stir anything up against him. This could be misdirection, but that would require Cyan to be Dagger's scumbuddy.
Unfortunately the guilt or innocence of Cyan is really required information for me to say anything concrete about the wagon, and I still can't make up my mind about that. I reread some games where Cyan was scum and came out of the gates with guns blazing, and couldn't find any recent games where he was townie but there was a prolonged joke phase to start the game. At this point I still find him scummy but not enough to go after with a vote. My analysis, then has to fork here.
If Cyan later turns up townie or SK: not much to learn from this. ~ and TMT both justified their votes against Cyan (late votes on the wagon) with references to Cyan's past play history, so they could easily be honest votes. Roja's vote feels very opportunistic, though - he could have been scum trying to bandwagon.
If Cyan later turns up mafia: a wealth of possible connections. Most of the wagon looks better, although the early unvote from ced395 is still a little bad. Roja's vote looks much better unless the scum can daychat, but the thread rules don't give us any information either way about that. Dagger, however, looks much, much worse.
Either way, I'm disturbed by the fact that Cyan's ceased to be a topic of discussion. I'd really like to get positions from Dagger, Roja, and ced395 on him.
I don't understand your intention in clarifying Cubus' rolename? What exactly did you expect to hear? A green light from the town to go after Cubus? It's like you are deliberately speculating openly about his rolename in order to gauge how the town would react to it? But if you are town yourself, you could have just directly stated your opinion on it, instead of asking it aloud for the town to answer?
Umm... was this meant to be directed at me? Infinis was the one who had the converstaion with Cubus that ended with Cubus giving his full rolename. I was basically thinking out loud with the section you quoted, trying to decide what a rolename of Rorschach signified, and not coming up with very much.
Also: unvote.
My random vote of Cubus has certainly run its course.
On Cyan and company. Largest wagon: DYH, andelijah, ced395, CropCircles, ~Tilde~, TMT, Roja.
Roja had already unvoted after being scorned for his vote rationale, and while he promised a reread on Cyan and DYH one has not materialized.
Here are my findings so far with Cyan, I have yet to look back on DYH.
Cyan's contrubution to Mafia Games
I used real life time to "measure" what I could from Cyan. While content im sure has a lot to do with scummy or not, this was just to measure the activity of Cyan, since that what was what started all of this. That and how he said something that mimiced Prehistoric mafia, where Cyan was scum.
Starting with Danger City 02/10/2009 was his first "real post" (the one where he said nothing was going on.) He made 3 posts before that when game started on 02/06/2009 (4 days of RL time) Cyan's allignment -- Unknown.
So around 4 days of time I am using to measure how much Cyan posts in the following games:
In Prehistoric Mafia
Game started: 07/27/2008 4 days of posting: 4 posts made Cyan's allignment -- Scum
This game alone mimic's his actions in this game. Down to the post he made.
In FF7 Mafia Game started: 07/18/2008 4 days (07/22/2008) 14 posts made Cyan's Allignment -- SK
In FF7 Cyan was very aggresive as the SK, (with night kill immunity). I don't remember if there was day lynch immunity however he was more active then this game.
In Star Trek Mafia Started 12/15/2008 - 12/19/2008 2 posts but admits forgetting the game started. Cyan was Town. Modkilled overnight if I see correctly
I couldn't understand if Cyan was killed or Mod killed, but due to his inactivity I take it he was modkilled/"went missing".
Low post count and town dosen't fit with this game, however he admited to forgetting the game..
In Doomsday mafia Started 08/20/2008 - 08/23/2008 28 posts. Cyan was Town. Killed Night 2.
Townie Cyan.. Tons of posts.
In "Beserk" Mafia Started 07/24/2008 - 07/28/2009 18 posts. Cyan was town lynched Day 7.
Townie Cyan.. Tons of posts.
The last one I looked at was The Clan Conest mafia Day 1 11/01/2008 - 11/05/2008 15 posts. Cyan was Town killed day 4.
Granted the game was different however he posted more in the first 4 days then now.
I'd really like to get positions from Dagger, Roja, and ced395 on him.
Well my findings for Cyan is that he usually dosen't post a lot in the beginning when he is scum. He posts way more when he is town, that is unless he forgets about the game. So with using only this measurement Cyan has to be scum.
However what bothers me is why would he post exactly like he did in Prehistoric.. It would seem too simple (simple like "you got me" ><) . And that alone is what is making me second guess myself. I'll also need to see more on DYH as well, as this is only reflects on Cyan's actions.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks goes out to DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja
I really don't like how Infinis got Cubus to claim and then instantly backed away on it. Mostly because of a "theory".. granted I assumed Cubus was Robin as well however I didn't need him to name claim to confrim/deny it.
What was your theory Infinis? Why was it so important for you to know about Cubus?
And Cubus why the info so sudden? Do you really think Infinis had something about you?..
Please don't misrepresent what was said. I did not force Cubus to claim, as he himself stated. I stated that if I had a good idea about a third person or a claim from someone else, my theory could be justified. My theory was that we're all sidekicks. But Rorschach, I don't think qualifies, hence theory dead. So where did you get the idea I had something on Cubus?
The only interesting thing I've seen so far, but let drop due to WIFOM concerns, is the PM shenanigans you pulled. Off the top of my head, I can only think of one person who is in both DC and Marvel under the same name, but the characters differ in gender. I came across a second character researching Watchmen on Wikipedia. The character is so obscure...that I wonder if you're building an early defense.
My interest was also picqued when you brought up the bit about "disguises" . But I easily could have misread that chain of posts as you obviously misread the exchanges between Me and Cubus.
On a side note, I never see the Cyan thing (BR mafia for instance), but I assume that most of you have played with him on several other occasions and know his tells.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
Please don't misrepresent what was said. I did not force Cubus to claim, as he himself stated. I stated that if I had a good idea about a third person or a claim from someone else, my theory could be justified. My theory was that we're all sidekicks. But Rorschach, I don't think qualifies, hence theory dead. So where did you get the idea I had something on Cubus?
First off, I don't think I misrepresented anything, I took your own comments and am asking questions based off them. No where did I say you *forced* Cubus to claim. However your interaction with him resulted with Cubus revealing his role, and your theory to fail as well. Your comment here:
Nothing. I would need to know or have a strong idea of another player's name in order for my theory to stand up. Two people, you and I, can be a coincidence, a third person could be coincidence as well but I'd like to believe it would be more towards a theme.
This was where I thought you were seeking something from Cubus.. You are clearly asking for more info, granted you wanted anyone to provide you info, you just wanted info. You said you had a theory, someone claimed and you dropped the theory and then moved on to someone else.. with no explantion (until now that is) didnt/dosent look good.
The only interesting thing I've seen so far, but let drop due to WIFOM concerns, is the PM shenanigans you pulled. Off the top of my head, I can only think of one person who is in both DC and Marvel under the same name, but the characters differ in gender. I came across a second character researching Watchmen on Wikipedia. The character is so obscure...that I wonder if you're building an early defense.
My interest was also picqued when you brought up the bit about "disguises" . But I easily could have misread that chain of posts as you obviously misread the exchanges between Me and Cubus.
I'll say im not both, and my PM was wrong, we have the correct info now.
What intrest are you talking about with reguards with disguises? I don't see any comment of you talking about the disguises.
On a side note, I never see the Cyan thing (BR mafia for instance), but I assume that most of you have played with him on several other occasions and know his tells.
I also don't understand what you are saying here as well. You can't see that Cyan didn't post, or that you cannot see that it is scummy?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks goes out to DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja
Unfortunately the guilt or innocence of Cyan is really required information for me to say anything concrete about the wagon, and I still can't make up my mind about that.
Hmm, interesting. That's seems to indicate that you are a sidekick. But when I look up "comic book sidekicks" on Wikipedia and see only two entries under "F", both of them Marvel characters, that "F/Male/[color=red]Other[color]" claim of yours suddenly comes to my attention.
Quote from Roja, regarding Infinis »
You are clearly asking for more info, granted you wanted anyone to provide you info, you just wanted info.
First off, I don't think I misrepresented anything, I took your own comments and am asking questions based off them. No where did I say you *forced* Cubus to claim. However your interaction with him resulted with Cubus revealing his role, and your theory to fail as well. Your comment here:
This was where I thought you were seeking something from Cubus.. You are clearly asking for more info, granted you wanted anyone to provide you info, you just wanted info. You said you had a theory, someone claimed and you dropped the theory and then moved on to someone else.. with no explantion (until now that is) didnt/dosent look good.
You stated that "I got" Cubus to claim, which to me implies I coerced or forced him in someway. A total misrepresentation of what went on.
And who did I move on to? I don't recall posting my thoughts about anyone else except in response to your misrepresentation of what went on between Cubus and me.
I'll say im not both, and my PM was wrong, we have the correct info now.
What intrest are you talking about with reguards with disguises? I don't see any comment of you talking about the disguises.
I did not talk of disguises you brought it up seemingly out of nowhere. A wrong PM could be possible but I thought it quite strange you made such a commotion about it without clearing it quietly with the mod and then announcing there could be PM errors. It's a perfect defense for someone later in the game,
For Example "Oh did I claim Z/Male/Other, well I'm the Zebra which is definitely a DC hero. Must be another mod error like what happened to Roja. Sorry I didn't notice sooner."
I also don't understand what you are saying here as well. You can't see that Cyan didn't post, or that you cannot see that it is scummy?
I don't see Cyan as scummy as so many people do. I am not as familiar with his playing style as I stated and have no baseline comparison of town vs. scum. That being said the posting frequency post was quite interesting and I will ponder it some more.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
I make a big post clarifying my position on Cyan - the lead vote-getter so far in this game - and provide analysis, and ask several people for followups on an issue that seems to have been forgotten... and your response is to nitpick me for that one line? What exactly was the point of this?
To answer the direct question, no, I didn't think that I'd pick up a vote target 100% based on my analysis of that wagon, unless it was Cyan himself. I still think that the post was worth making.
Back at you: what was your motivation for making this post that I quoted here? Why did you think making this post would help the town?
But when I look up "comic book sidekicks" on Wikipedia and see only two entries under "F", both of them Marvel characters, that "F/Male/[color=red]Other[color]" claim of yours suddenly comes to my attention.
I make a big post clarifying my position on Cyan - the lead vote-getter so far in this game - and provide analysis, and ask several people for followups on an issue that seems to have been forgotten... and your response is to nitpick me for that one line? What exactly was the point of this?
I'm actually nitpicking the entire post, but the one line allows a more direct response. You come back making a post discussing Cyan's wagon that has no useful analysis without knowing Cyan's alignment (you specifically depend several factors on Cyan's alignment). You have no arguments on other players in the abstract, nor do you seem to have an actual opinion on Cyan. Essentially, you made several points that won't matter until, at the soonest, tomorrow. And that's if Cyan turns up dead, which you don't seem to be pushing for.
Back at you: what was your motivation for making this post that I quoted here? Why did you think making this post would help the town?
No. The point of asking questions is for self-clarifications. Votes and arguments are for the town.
My character isn't even from a comic book, so limiting your search to comics probably isn't going to help.
Fact: Ged provided us each of us a link regarding our character in our PM's.
Supposition based on that - Each of us likely have some sort of Wikipedia entry.
Fact: Infinis publicly theorized that we were all sidekicks, presumably solely based on his role PM and what he thought Cubus' role was.
Supposition based on that - All the information given so far (the opening scene, Cubus' claim of Rorschach, my own role) has indicated that we are all characters from comic books/graphic novels and the like, therefore if Infinis is a sidekick, most likely he would be on that list of comic book sidekicks. The two listed don't fit his soft claim, and I personally can't think of one that would.
Result is that something about Infinis is wrong in my opinion and that's vote-worthy.
I'm using the evidence at hand to make an opinion. I'm not sure what you're whining about..
Incidentally, I'm just finishing my recap and saw this again. Ande did you ever reread Numegil's post? Thoughts on it?
And cut the f'ing snark. I dislike AH and his attitude, as i think AH knows. I don't dislike you, but when you behave like this it pisses me off. Same to everyone. Cut the freaking bad attitudes.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Aside: Real life caught up with me this week. Things are stable now. Will participate better.
TMT finishes off a cookie before returning to his mission. He pulls out his trusty pencil and begins to make notes:
- Cyan - Continues to post in an unusually non-aggressive fashion, ironically only displaying aggression when responding to accusations of non-aggression.
- JqlGirl - Continues to exhibit signs of follow-the-leader mentality.
- ~Tilde~ - Continues to attack based on soft-claim speculation. Attack made on Roja includes unsubstantiated supposition of comic-based roles only, does not unvote even when confronted with evidence disproving supposition.
TMT puts the notebook away, hoping that most of those big words mean what he thinks they do. Dictionaries are boring anyway. Now he needs a plan. Any one of them could be plotting his demise. ALL of them could be, for that matter. Where to begin? Cyan's behavior is by far the more aberrant of the three. Occasionally he has behaved normally, giving our hero pause. But such moments quickly pass, and he is left pondering this stranger that seems to merely call himself Cyan. Our hero prepares, this time from the top of a nearby end-table. Once again he leaps, striking with unerring aim!
What do you want from me? I still don't really feel like there is anything to talk about. RobRoy was being discussed for awhile, but as I said, I think he's just misguided, not scum.
Sigh, I'm up to post 441, but I'm exhausted and have an 830 class tomorrow, so ill finish my large recap tomorrow and make large where i am on everyone post tomorrow.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm sure the mod will avoid giving any role information out in flavor scenes, claimed or otherwise.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
12-11? I'm losing track
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Three posts out of over 400 is pretty sad. I don't know if you could really lurk any harder.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
@Cubus: Do you think DYH is scum?
[The Family]
I don't like the method of voting for someone to get them to post. I prefer the method of asking for a MOD PROD as it HAS been about 4 days with no posting from Numegil. Who has some answering to do.
Pshht. I had mistaken Infinis for Nume, and thought he just posted without a defense. Retract the above statement.
Should be: I do not support a Nume push, but I will let him defend himself before I elaborate.
[The Family]
I missed this earlier. I'm not sure why you think this was going to be at all helpful today before someone has to fully claim or that I would have anything tomorrow to "enlighten" you with. I laid out the pros of the soft-claiming plan, and it's got nothing to do with some revelation I can make out of it for you. It's simply accomplished locking scums into a smaller range of potential false-claims.
I'd simply like Numegil to post and put forward some opinions. This garbage about not liking day one and not having played with anyone, offering to vote only with the majority if he likes it; yeah, that's not going to cut it. I want his thoughts out in the open.
I really dislike RobRoy's contributions thus far, but he at least has some opinions on the page - however high-level. Once Numegil joins the party, my vote will likely be moving to RR.
Spotofprey's last post should hardly be counted as such. Yeah, what AH said was rude, but there's been way more going on that you need to speak about.
Not real thrilled with Infinis' content, either.
To those of you not contibuting - quit being so lazy.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I neglected to mention in the previous scene that Numegil had been prodded. Everyone is again reminded that posting once every three days is the minimum accepted level of activity.
I wanted a quick public clarification from the mod on that issue. If I hadn't brought that point up right then, it might have gone unnoticed. At least until another player decides to do a reread in day 4 or something, sees this and uses it as the basis of a case.
My way, it got resolved with swiftly, publicly and without bias.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Theory officially dead, I thought it was obvious who you were and it wasn't Rorschach. Guess Fail on me because R male DC in Wayne Manor...
12-11? I'm losing track
I wasn't complaining about the content, but about the style. You posted to pull a vote off him without reason, while promising further content. It just seems odd to me to do that in a situation where there wasn't really any time pressure - something that I'd expect you to know if you'd read enough to decide that Cyan was no longer worthy of pressure.
Next question: is a claim of Rorschach really a positive in this game? Obviously something that we won't be able to answer that well until we see a dead body or two, but I could honestly see Rorschach as a SK, or part of a mafia made up of "heroes" who disagree with the methods of the rest of us.
"Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise."
Apologies for the lack of content that several people have commented on. I plan on doing a full reread over the next day to bring my notes up to date and take a look at the Cyan wagon.
It's a neutral tell in my book. Rorschach can be pigeon-holed into so many potential roles that it's up for grabs whether it's a town or scum role.
My first impression for that role would be Paranoid Cop though.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Not really, the vote was to ensure that post got Ged's attention.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Not everything is a conspiracy.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
Record: 3-2
Simpsons Mafia (Newbie) - Vanilla Mafia - Win
The Fiasco Corporation - Town Reporter - Loss
Doomsday Mafia - Mafia Roleblocker - Win
Battle Royale Mafia - Serial Daykiller - Loss
Danger City Mafia - Vanilla Town - Win
The fact that he wasn't in claim range doesn't mean it was meaningless to unvote him. I was reading from my phone, felt I didn't want to keep my vote on him, so I unvoted. There's nothing wrong with that, and I'm not sure I even understand where you are coming from.
[The Family]
We have no information here (and no, this is not a call to divulge). There might as well be a blank where it says Rorschach. Let's focus elsewhere.
Option 1: you had understood the thread well enough to know that you didn't want pressure on Cyan. You should have also recognized that the votes on Cyan were slipping, so your unvote could wait until you could post reasons along with it and provide more content.
Option 2: you hadn't understood enough to see that you didn't want pressure on Cyan. That implies that you had a reason to take your vote off him that wasn't rooted in analysis. There are a limited number of possible other reasons, most of which don't cast you in a good light.
Savvy?
I feel like this post is reaching pretty badly.
However, I don't think it's suspicious. RR's motivations seem genuine.
[The Family]
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
That answer your question?
[The Family]
It answered mine, thanks.
About 2/3rds done my reread, but won't be able to finish tonight. Look for something on Cyan et al. from me tomorrow morning.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I really don't like how Infinis got Cubus to claim and then instantly backed away on it. Mostly because of a "theory".. granted I assumed Cubus was Robin as well however I didn't need him to name claim to confrim/deny it.
What was your theory Infinis? Why was it so important for you to know about Cubus?
And Cubus why the info so sudden? Do you really think Infinis had something about you?
I agree with AH here, now we have info we are going to WIFOM ourselves as Rorschach is flexable in several roles in the game of mafia.
I don't really favor the wagon on Numegil basing on the fact he was lurking. On the content of his post, I would rather see his response first before doing anything.
I was of the impression you won't vote someone unless you have "solid evidence" that he or she is scum, to prevent lynching a townie based on "ghosts and vapors" on Day 1. You earlier gave me the impression you are not one to wield your vote around recklessly, and now you voted Numegil based on his lack of content? Here in #326, you stated your agreement with Numegil's point of view, a point quite a few on Numegil's wagon are citing as the basis for their votes. So, from what I could gather, you were voting Numegil based on him lurking and not based on his posts?
I don't understand your intention in clarifying Cubus' rolename? What exactly did you expect to hear? A green light from the town to go after Cubus? It's like you are deliberately speculating openly about his rolename in order to gauge how the town would react to it? But if you are town yourself, you could have just directly stated your opinion on it, instead of asking it aloud for the town to answer?
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
I'm pretty sure at this point he is going to be replaced, but, in the case he does happen to come back, he should definitely answer the questions and address the points that were brought up.
If that's exactly what you're doing, then you're contradicting the post below?
By your statement, lurking is playing scummy. But if he is town, wouldn't that fall into a mislynch you so feared? Whatever happened to only following the below stance?
You did not indicate lurking as a "solid evidence" here?
My problem is this: You gave a series of arguments about how superficial the cases on Cyan and DYH are, and how you would only really pursue a solid case in order to avoid a mislynch. And then you went and voted Numegil just because he lurked?
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
There were a few interesting things I found about Cyan and the wagon on reread. First, I think that I'd probably have been on the wagon had Battle Royale ended when the wagon was going. My reasoning for not thinking him scum is explained here:
The "mafia" in there was from BR, but as was shown after BR ended, Cyan actually didn't realize he was mafia in that one, impressive as that was. Armed with that knowledge, I'd likely have joined in to force Cyan to claim.
Secondly, there never seemed to be an agreement of any kind that Cyan was no longer worthy of pressure. The partial mass-claim came up at around that time and everyone went with that, which caused a fair bit of discussion on other topics. Roja had already unvoted after being scorned for his vote rationale, and while he promised a reread on Cyan and DYH one has not materialized. ced395 unvoted as he was going to be away, and hasn't really been able to contribute much of anything since. CropCircles did the unvote that I was questioning him about, with not much reason provided until later, and after DYH moved his vote over to Numegil the wagon was pretty much over despite Cyan not having done or said anything in his defence since before the wagon really hit its stride.
Third, Dagger caught my eye on reread, due to this post. This was done at the peak of the Cyan wagon. The logic here is somewhat questionable. Dagger claims to be in support of a push against Cyan, and mentions forcing a claim, but wants to talk about getting the mass-claim out of the way first. Why is that? I'd think that at the least, he'd want Cyan to be the first to do the partial claim - why would you want to give the person you're most suspicious of more information before forcing a claim out of them? His later posts continue to be critical of Cyan, but he never places a vote on Cyan or makes an attempt to stir anything up against him. This could be misdirection, but that would require Cyan to be Dagger's scumbuddy.
Unfortunately the guilt or innocence of Cyan is really required information for me to say anything concrete about the wagon, and I still can't make up my mind about that. I reread some games where Cyan was scum and came out of the gates with guns blazing, and couldn't find any recent games where he was townie but there was a prolonged joke phase to start the game. At this point I still find him scummy but not enough to go after with a vote. My analysis, then has to fork here.
If Cyan later turns up townie or SK: not much to learn from this. ~ and TMT both justified their votes against Cyan (late votes on the wagon) with references to Cyan's past play history, so they could easily be honest votes. Roja's vote feels very opportunistic, though - he could have been scum trying to bandwagon.
If Cyan later turns up mafia: a wealth of possible connections. Most of the wagon looks better, although the early unvote from ced395 is still a little bad. Roja's vote looks much better unless the scum can daychat, but the thread rules don't give us any information either way about that. Dagger, however, looks much, much worse.
Either way, I'm disturbed by the fact that Cyan's ceased to be a topic of discussion. I'd really like to get positions from Dagger, Roja, and ced395 on him.
Umm... was this meant to be directed at me? Infinis was the one who had the converstaion with Cubus that ended with Cubus giving his full rolename. I was basically thinking out loud with the section you quoted, trying to decide what a rolename of Rorschach signified, and not coming up with very much.
Also:
unvote.
My random vote of Cubus has certainly run its course.
Here are my findings so far with Cyan, I have yet to look back on DYH.
Cyan's contrubution to Mafia Games
I used real life time to "measure" what I could from Cyan. While content im sure has a lot to do with scummy or not, this was just to measure the activity of Cyan, since that what was what started all of this. That and how he said something that mimiced Prehistoric mafia, where Cyan was scum.
Starting with Danger City
02/10/2009 was his first "real post" (the one where he said nothing was going on.)
He made 3 posts before that when game started on 02/06/2009 (4 days of RL time)
Cyan's allignment -- Unknown.
So around 4 days of time I am using to measure how much Cyan posts in the following games:
In Prehistoric Mafia
Game started: 07/27/2008
4 days of posting: 4 posts made
Cyan's allignment -- Scum
This game alone mimic's his actions in this game. Down to the post he made.
In FF7 Mafia
Game started: 07/18/2008
4 days (07/22/2008) 14 posts made
Cyan's Allignment -- SK
In FF7 Cyan was very aggresive as the SK, (with night kill immunity). I don't remember if there was day lynch immunity however he was more active then this game.
In Star Trek Mafia
Started 12/15/2008 - 12/19/2008
2 posts but admits forgetting the game started.
Cyan was Town. Modkilled overnight if I see correctly
I couldn't understand if Cyan was killed or Mod killed, but due to his inactivity I take it he was modkilled/"went missing".
Low post count and town dosen't fit with this game, however he admited to forgetting the game..
In Doomsday mafia
Started 08/20/2008 - 08/23/2008 28 posts.
Cyan was Town. Killed Night 2.
Townie Cyan.. Tons of posts.
In "Beserk" Mafia
Started 07/24/2008 - 07/28/2009 18 posts.
Cyan was town lynched Day 7.
Townie Cyan.. Tons of posts.
The last one I looked at was The Clan Conest mafia
Day 1 11/01/2008 - 11/05/2008 15 posts.
Cyan was Town killed day 4.
Granted the game was different however he posted more in the first 4 days then now.
Well my findings for Cyan is that he usually dosen't post a lot in the beginning when he is scum. He posts way more when he is town, that is unless he forgets about the game. So with using only this measurement Cyan has to be scum.
However what bothers me is why would he post exactly like he did in Prehistoric.. It would seem too simple (simple like "you got me" ><) . And that alone is what is making me second guess myself. I'll also need to see more on DYH as well, as this is only reflects on Cyan's actions.
Please don't misrepresent what was said. I did not force Cubus to claim, as he himself stated. I stated that if I had a good idea about a third person or a claim from someone else, my theory could be justified. My theory was that we're all sidekicks. But Rorschach, I don't think qualifies, hence theory dead. So where did you get the idea I had something on Cubus?
The only interesting thing I've seen so far, but let drop due to WIFOM concerns, is the PM shenanigans you pulled. Off the top of my head, I can only think of one person who is in both DC and Marvel under the same name, but the characters differ in gender. I came across a second character researching Watchmen on Wikipedia. The character is so obscure...that I wonder if you're building an early defense.
My interest was also picqued when you brought up the bit about "disguises" . But I easily could have misread that chain of posts as you obviously misread the exchanges between Me and Cubus.
On a side note, I never see the Cyan thing (BR mafia for instance), but I assume that most of you have played with him on several other occasions and know his tells.
12-11? I'm losing track
First off, I don't think I misrepresented anything, I took your own comments and am asking questions based off them. No where did I say you *forced* Cubus to claim. However your interaction with him resulted with Cubus revealing his role, and your theory to fail as well. Your comment here:
This was where I thought you were seeking something from Cubus.. You are clearly asking for more info, granted you wanted anyone to provide you info, you just wanted info. You said you had a theory, someone claimed and you dropped the theory and then moved on to someone else.. with no explantion (until now that is) didnt/dosent look good.
I'll say im not both, and my PM was wrong, we have the correct info now.
What intrest are you talking about with reguards with disguises? I don't see any comment of you talking about the disguises.
I also don't understand what you are saying here as well. You can't see that Cyan didn't post, or that you cannot see that it is scummy?
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
Hmm, interesting. That's seems to indicate that you are a sidekick. But when I look up "comic book sidekicks" on Wikipedia and see only two entries under "F", both of them Marvel characters, that "F/Male/[color=red]Other[color]" claim of yours suddenly comes to my attention.
If it looks like fishing... it probably is.
Vote Infinis
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
You stated that "I got" Cubus to claim, which to me implies I coerced or forced him in someway. A total misrepresentation of what went on.
And who did I move on to? I don't recall posting my thoughts about anyone else except in response to your misrepresentation of what went on between Cubus and me.
I did not talk of disguises you brought it up seemingly out of nowhere. A wrong PM could be possible but I thought it quite strange you made such a commotion about it without clearing it quietly with the mod and then announcing there could be PM errors. It's a perfect defense for someone later in the game,
For Example "Oh did I claim Z/Male/Other, well I'm the Zebra which is definitely a DC hero. Must be another mod error like what happened to Roja. Sorry I didn't notice sooner."
I don't see Cyan as scummy as so many people do. I am not as familiar with his playing style as I stated and have no baseline comparison of town vs. scum. That being said the posting frequency post was quite interesting and I will ponder it some more.
12-11? I'm losing track
Unvote,
Vote: Cyan
I make a big post clarifying my position on Cyan - the lead vote-getter so far in this game - and provide analysis, and ask several people for followups on an issue that seems to have been forgotten... and your response is to nitpick me for that one line? What exactly was the point of this?
To answer the direct question, no, I didn't think that I'd pick up a vote target 100% based on my analysis of that wagon, unless it was Cyan himself. I still think that the post was worth making.
Back at you: what was your motivation for making this post that I quoted here? Why did you think making this post would help the town?
I'm actually nitpicking the entire post, but the one line allows a more direct response. You come back making a post discussing Cyan's wagon that has no useful analysis without knowing Cyan's alignment (you specifically depend several factors on Cyan's alignment). You have no arguments on other players in the abstract, nor do you seem to have an actual opinion on Cyan. Essentially, you made several points that won't matter until, at the soonest, tomorrow. And that's if Cyan turns up dead, which you don't seem to be pushing for.
No. The point of asking questions is for self-clarifications. Votes and arguments are for the town.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
[The Family]
Fact: Ged provided us each of us a link regarding our character in our PM's.
Supposition based on that - Each of us likely have some sort of Wikipedia entry.
Fact: Infinis publicly theorized that we were all sidekicks, presumably solely based on his role PM and what he thought Cubus' role was.
Supposition based on that - All the information given so far (the opening scene, Cubus' claim of Rorschach, my own role) has indicated that we are all characters from comic books/graphic novels and the like, therefore if Infinis is a sidekick, most likely he would be on that list of comic book sidekicks. The two listed don't fit his soft claim, and I personally can't think of one that would.
Result is that something about Infinis is wrong in my opinion and that's vote-worthy.
Fact:
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Incidentally, I'm just finishing my recap and saw this again. Ande did you ever reread Numegil's post? Thoughts on it?
And cut the f'ing snark. I dislike AH and his attitude, as i think AH knows. I don't dislike you, but when you behave like this it pisses me off. Same to everyone. Cut the freaking bad attitudes.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
TMT finishes off a cookie before returning to his mission. He pulls out his trusty pencil and begins to make notes:
- Cyan - Continues to post in an unusually non-aggressive fashion, ironically only displaying aggression when responding to accusations of non-aggression.
- JqlGirl - Continues to exhibit signs of follow-the-leader mentality.
- ~Tilde~ - Continues to attack based on soft-claim speculation. Attack made on Roja includes unsubstantiated supposition of comic-based roles only, does not unvote even when confronted with evidence disproving supposition.
TMT puts the notebook away, hoping that most of those big words mean what he thinks they do. Dictionaries are boring anyway. Now he needs a plan. Any one of them could be plotting his demise. ALL of them could be, for that matter. Where to begin? Cyan's behavior is by far the more aberrant of the three. Occasionally he has behaved normally, giving our hero pause. But such moments quickly pass, and he is left pondering this stranger that seems to merely call himself Cyan. Our hero prepares, this time from the top of a nearby end-table. Once again he leaps, striking with unerring aim!
unvote, vote Cyan
Record: 3-2
Simpsons Mafia (Newbie) - Vanilla Mafia - Win
The Fiasco Corporation - Town Reporter - Loss
Doomsday Mafia - Mafia Roleblocker - Win
Battle Royale Mafia - Serial Daykiller - Loss
Danger City Mafia - Vanilla Town - Win
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity