Sidenote while im mid-recapping: Cubus, Question for you:
Post 129 you suggest the subclaim (DC/Marvel/Other). Post 133 you want to hear what Roja thinks about it.
Then by Post 142 you say you don't think a subset claim will do much.
Then why suggest it?
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Yes. You can ask questions, probe, draw comparisons, but until you think they are scum there is no reason to attack them. Attacks are used to convince other people that they are scum. If you're not sure yourself, then what is the point in convincing others?
Your post essentially says certain aspects of their play this game exemplify some of their previous scum play (and your HP reference should add that you were a neutral - of note you had similar goals that game). The purpose of this post can only be to convince other's of their scumminess, but apparently not yourself.
I rest my case. I can draw comparisons, but I'm scummy for drawing comparisons? You're tripping over yourself trying to explain how attacking a player can't be used to determine their alignment. Attacks are used to generate a response, with which you can get a feel for their respective alignment.
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I wanted discussion on the topic; I did not think it was a good idea. Is there anything in my posts that contradicts either of those points?
No, you have not contradicted yourself. That's not what I'm arguing. I just don't buy into why you would try to generate discussion on an idea you didn't agree with.
Let me ask you this: What did you expect to gain from such a discussion? Secondly, What if the majority of people agreed that it was a good idea. How would you have responded?
Christ, this place is more of a sausage fest then....the actual MTGS community.
I was tempted to say something similar, but apparently Ged thinks you cover requirements of the fairer sex for the entire group by yourself. You're truly deserving of wider recognition.
No, you have not contradicted yourself. That's not what I'm arguing. I just don't buy into why you would try to generate discussion on an idea you didn't agree with.
Let me ask you this: What did you expect to gain from such a discussion? Secondly, What if the majority of people agreed that it was a good idea. How would you have responded?
I've been wrong before. And I'm pretty sure that "the majority of people disagreeing with me" is exactly what happened, so you can read the thread to see my response.
When I initially thought about the possibility of a D1 mass-claim (partial or full) I decided that it probably wouldn't be good, which is why I didn't bring it up myself. 2.5 days later, we were still making jokes instead of providing content, and Cubus brought up the softclaim idea. At that point I figured I'd toss fulllclaim in on top of it to promote discussion and help make sure we got to the meat of the game.
A combination of the fact the random phase took way too long, the fact I can't see how it could really hurt the town, and the fact that scums are often terrified of claiming, even if it's just a softclaim, and the fact that "false claiming will be hard enough as it is".
Do you think we missed something from the setup that would make false claiming harder than it currently seems? At this time, only 2 people have overlapped in their claims, so even if one of them is scum (hypothetically), all the rest of the scum can proceed safely with their false claims (3 players still need to soft-claim). That being said, is the mod a liar, or did something go overlooked? I'm trying to determine what he could have meant by "false claiming will be hard enough as it is," but most things would be impossible to determine at this point only given the name of my character and no one else's.
I can not be 100% sure about my theory, but based on Cubus' comment about his soft claim and my own PM; it's going to be rough to false claim later on after the soft claim.
Cubus and Roja killed my original theory, but this second theory is stronger. However, without knowing more about anyone else's PM my theory won't stand up yet on it's own.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
First letter of character name, Gender, Source right?
I'm E/Female/Other then.
I don't have much else to say to you, DYH. You have a really minor point against me, and are trying to make it out like it is some tremendous case. But it's not.
I can not be 100% sure about my theory, but based on Cubus' comment about his soft claim and my own PM; it's going to be rough to false claim later on after the soft claim.
Cubus and Roja killed my original theory, but this second theory is stronger. However, without knowing more about anyone else's PM my theory won't stand up yet on it's own.
I'm not following - can you try to be a little more specific with what you are looking for?
~Tilde~ : S / Male / Other
Abandon Hope :
andelijah : Y / Male / Other
ced395 : B / Male / Other
CropCircles : E / Female / Other
Cubus : R / Male / DC
Cyan : E / Female / Other
Dagger : M / Male / Other
DYH : I / Male / Other
goatrevolt : D / Male / Other
Infinis : F / Male / Other
JqlGirl : H / Male / Other
loran16 : N / Male / DC
Numegil : B / Male / Other
RobRoy : D / Male / Other
Roja : T / Male / Marvel
Some One : S / Male / DC
spotofprey : P / Male / Other
The Mad Tapper : S / Male / Other
That just leaves Abandon Hope without a soft claim. Has this helped you out in any way DYH, or will we have to wait until tomorrow before you enlighten us further?
I am disappointed that CC and Cyan's claims overlap, because I'm pretty sure that one of the two is who I think they are, and unless Ged is being very twisted with setting up the role, that character in question is extremely likely to be town (IMHO).
1. You elaborated on AH's post in #212. That peaked my interest because I have never seen a player explaining the rationale behind another player's post before unprovoked and out-of-the-blue as you did. Furthermore, in that explanation you did not add in your own opinions as I would have expected of anyone elaborating on someone's else post. I interpreted it as you were trying to seem "active" but then it made no sense since you were already quite active.
2. You were suspicious of DYH "barning" you. Originally, I chalked you up as town based on that because I have seen inexperienced players who are less certain of themselves wondering aloud why would more experienced players keep agreeing with or supporting them unless said experienced players are scums. But then said paranoia I usually attributed to newer players, and the last time I checked, you are not an inexperienced player. I interpreted it as you were conscious of being in the spotlight or fear being given the credit of the soft claims.
3. You were wavering between Cyan and DYH. You stated uncertainty on both and then provided reasons either could be scum. It felt like you didn't want to commit or to go against either one of them. You gave off a neutral vibe in your opinions on them. I interpreted it as you wanted to give an opinion on the arguments but didn't want to lean one way or the other.
I had plenty of posts in WH2K, I just didn't say much in them. That is not the accusation that is being made here. Besides, I was scum in Battle Royale and acted like my normal self. And in FF7. So no, there is no 'trend'.
I would say FF7 is irrelevant because you were the SK there and not mafia, and BR is different enough in mechanics and scum groups differentiation that it cannot be used as an example to clear yourself.
@Tilde: I believe you missed a question of mine from earlier. Just trying to confirm that you did miss it and was not deliberately ignoring it.
So a grand total of 4 characters are Marvel or DC. Why did we have that criteria for the softclaim again?
Maybe all the Others should say whether their characters originated in Comics/TV/Movies/Books or something to balance things out?
Just trying to confirm that you did miss it and was not deliberately ignoring it.
I did miss that. My opinion is that while mass claims, in all their various forms, are accepted as a pro-town move, they won't necessarily be instigated by a townie.
If the mafia have pregame discussion or false claims, then they might push the idea of a day 1 claim, simply because they have more knowledge of the game's setup, and a mass claim could point out the best NK targets for them while simultaneously getting some townie points.
Take this game for example. A great majority of the players here are "Other". Cubus, Loran16, Roja and SomeOne are therefore the odd people out. I would be amazed, no... utterly shocked, if at the end of the game, they all turned up scum. I find it extremely unlikely that a game would be broken so easily nowadays.
2. You were suspicious of DYH "barning" you. Originally, I chalked you up as town based on that because I have seen inexperienced players who are less certain of themselves wondering aloud why would more experienced players keep agreeing with or supporting them unless said experienced players are scums. But then said paranoia I usually attributed to newer players, and the last time I checked, you are not an inexperienced player. I interpreted it as you were conscious of being in the spotlight or fear being given the credit of the soft claims.
Or, it could be exactly like he said. He recognized it as something DYH has done repeatedly when he was scum and called him on it.
3. You were wavering between Cyan and DYH. You stated uncertainty on both and then provided reasons either could be scum. It felt like you didn't want to commit or to go against either one of them. You gave off a neutral vibe in your opinions on them. I interpreted it as you wanted to give an opinion on the arguments but didn't want to lean one way or the other.
So, in short, you felt like a neutral?
I would say FF7 is irrelevant because you were the SK there and not mafia, and BR is different enough in mechanics and scum groups differentiation that it cannot be used as an example to clear yourself.
Having 2 scum groups instead of one is not that different in mechanics. And if anything, as the SK a person is inclined to be much less aggressive, not more so. Nice try though.
This is a ridiculous smear. GR acted exactly like you would expect a townie to act in that situation. He gave his thoughts on each involved party, ultimately concluding that neither seemed like scum overall.
I'll check in later for actual content. This claiming business was a bad idea, for posterity's sake.
Side note: It would help if you'd actually ever explained why you thought it was a bad idea, rather than simply having made one (maybe 2) cryptic posts sort of maybe talking about it.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I don't have much else to say to you, DYH. You have a really minor point against me, and are trying to make it out like it is some tremendous case. But it's not.
Honestly, great. I'm sick of arguing with you, anyway. Takes too much of my time to respond to those gargantuan back-and-forths.
Or, it could be exactly like he said. He recognized it as something DYH has done repeatedly when he was scum and called him on it.
But, you need to cut the propaganda until you produce some proof of this accusation. I'm perfectly willing to shelve the rest of the argument for now because people will eventually come to see you're scum, but I doubt I'm going to convince anyone else on Day 1. If you do want to continue with the attacks though, you need to substantiate them, and this is one of which you've provided no proof, and I have already given examples of my doing it as a townie.
FYI: I'm going to have limited activity coming up; I'm on vacation Wed-Sun. My son's birthday is Wednesday, a buddy is coming into town for a Sevendust concert Thursday, and my parents are coming into town for the weekend on Friday.
Before that, though, I'm going to try a re-read ignoring Cyan to see what else pops up.
I haven't been participating much because I personally really don't like day one, since we're forced to go with very minimal evidence which could just as likely be someone's mistakes as someone's scumtells. The fact that I've never played with anyone in this game previously certainly doesn't help me figure things out either. When we end up getting close to a lynch, I'll cast my vote for someone if I feel that the arguments against them outbalance the arguments of their defense, however I probably will not be pointing any needless fingers up until then. I do, however, fully support this whole soft-claim business since it gives us a potential (however small) chance to catch scum later, with very very low potential risk to the town. Free information is good.
I gather you were providing an excuse in advance for not participating in the discussion on Day 1, and then stated you would entirely be willing to join in the lynch if it comes to pass?
About the ongoing bickerfest between Cyan and DYH and GR and others?
I really don't see any solid evidence that anyone involved in it is scum.
I agree with what Numegil had to say about not liking day 1 votes due to a lack of information. However, that said, I am following along and will pipe in if I feel there's anything pertinent to say.
If you don't see them as scums, why not say so? Also, define "solid evidence" of a case in Day 1? In your mind, what would you say is "solid evidence"?
This, however, doesn't solve the issue of having to vote based on ghosts and vapours on Day 1 and having a high chance of lynching a townie who's just playing scummy (like I have been victim to in several games.)
I don't understand how you could be saying that with several games already under your belt? Basically you are excusing yourself from doing any scum-hunting on Day 1?
Having 2 scum groups instead of one is not that different in mechanics. And if anything, as the SK a person is inclined to be much less aggressive, not more so. Nice try though.
I beg to differ. Having 2 scum groups makes a lot of difference. Just check out Doomsday as an example of a completed game with 2 scum groups. Also, a player acts differently as an SK than as a mafioso. You simply cannot equate it to your normal scum play as an SK. IIRC, you were near-invulnerable anyway as an SK in that game, so your aggressiveness should be more prevalent in said game (seeing as I didn't read FF7).
This is a ridiculous smear. GR acted exactly like you would expect a townie to act in that situation. He gave his thoughts on each involved party, ultimately concluding that neither seemed like scum overall.
Is it? If GR did indeed act like what I would expect a townie to act in that situation, I wouldn't have called him out on that in the first place.
A few notes:
1. I seriously doubt DYH is scum, based on my experience playing with him.
2. I am less certain on Loran's townieness due to him being cryptic about Cyan. It reminds me far too much of HP when he was doing the exact same thing about AI as well in preparation for his mason (scum) claim.
I'm perfectly willing to shelve the rest of the argument for now because people will eventually come to see you're scum, but I doubt I'm going to convince anyone else on Day 1.
I still think Cyan is scum; I just don't think this group will lynch him day one. Heck, I can't get one more person to get him to claim range.
You'll notice my vote hasn't moved. I'm just fine with stopping the ridiculous back-and-forths. The case is still there.
That doesn't preclude me from finding other people who I think are scum, which is what the re-read is intending to accomplish.
I haven't been participating much because I personally really don't like day one, since we're forced to go with very minimalevidence which could just as likely be someone's mistakes as someone's scumtells. The fact that I've never played with anyone in this game previously certainly doesn't help me figure things out either. When we end up getting close to a lynch, I'll cast my vote for someone if I feel that the arguments against them outbalance the arguments of their defense, however I probably will not be pointing any needless fingers up until then. I do, however, fully support this whole soft-claim business since it gives us a potential (however small) chance to catch scum later, with very very low potential risk to the town. Free information is good.
makes me want to Vote Numegil.
If this doesn't reek of noob scum, please tell me what does (avoid directing me to myself in noob 20, kthanks). Furthermore, I don't like the fact he hasn't posted since to address others' points in regards to this post and only posted three times thus far, on the 6th, the 9th, and this, on the 13th. If the game doesn't start with the pointing of fingers, where should it start, Numegil?
So a grand total of 4 characters are Marvel or DC. Why did we have that criteria for the softclaim again?
Maybe all the Others should say whether their characters originated in Comics/TV/Movies/Books or something to balance things out?
Despite the lack of information from the wealth of Others, we still have gender and letter. I don't think it'll do us much good to waste time on getting more soft-claim information at this point.
Posting from my phone now, but I might have something to say when I get home.
What exactly was the point of this? If you could read well enough to figure that you were no longer convinced Cyan should be pressured, you should also have been able to see that he was down to 5 votes, so not near claim range anymore. Why take the time to unvote, then?
Side note: It would help if you'd actually ever explained why you thought it was a bad idea, rather than simply having made one (maybe 2) cryptic posts sort of maybe talking about it.
The two sentences I spent on this ridiculous idea should have been enough to crush it. They weren't cryptic. They were accurate and used real words. That they didn't leaves me with little faith.
The two sentences I spent on this ridiculous idea should have been enough to crush it. They weren't cryptic. They were accurate and used real words. That they didn't leaves me with little faith.
Your two sentences explained why you thought it would not help, oh apocalyptic one. But even if flavor and alignment are asynchronous, that is not the only purpose a sub-claim would server. What reason do you have to believe that the town has made an error? Or are you merely feigning indignation to disguise your attempt to thwart our efforts in saving Danger City?
The two sentences I spent on this ridiculous idea should have been enough to crush it. They weren't cryptic. They were accurate and used real words. That they didn't leaves me with little faith.
Umm, a. Two sentences by a single player will never "crush" an idea created by another player. Anyone who thinks they would has a way too high opinion of one's self. b. People obviously asked you to clarify, which you never really well did.
Soooo...... Fail?
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Umm, a. Two sentences by a single player will never "crush" an idea created by another player. Anyone who thinks they would has a way too high opinion of one's self. b. People obviously asked you to clarify, which you never really well did.
Soooo...... Fail?
It's not too much to ask that people make an effort to reach the best conclusion. I don't expect intelligence out of you. I can only give you the opportunity to make the right decision, and then hold you accountable for your idiocy.
Despite the lack of information from the wealth of Others, we still have gender and letter. I don't think it'll do us much good to waste time on getting more soft-claim information at this point.
I agree with this statement. I mean what next? We would be just getting closer and closer from asking for a full claim.
I am really shocked to see the number of others.
And I hope everyone had a great holiday weekend. (Currently re-reading the posts that happened in the last 3-5 days.)
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Nothing. I would need to know or have a strong idea of another player's name in order for my theory to stand up. Two people, you and I, can be a coincidence, a third person could be coincidence as well but I'd like to believe it would be more towards a theme.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
I can not be 100% sure about my theory, but based on Cubus' comment about his soft claim and my own PM; it's going to be rough to false claim later on after the soft claim.
Cubus and Roja killed my original theory, but this second theory is stronger. However, without knowing more about anyone else's PM my theory won't stand up yet on it's own.
Quote from SpotofPrey »
I'm not following - can you try to be a little more specific with what you are looking for?
I think I see where Infinis might be going. The character I had thought of when CC soft-claimed (the "E/Female/Other" role) fits into my working theory about the game setup, but at the moment it's just that... a theory. It'll probably be at least day 2 before I'd consider suggesting it.
It's not too much to ask that people make an effort to reach the best conclusion. I don't expect intelligence out of you. I can only give you the opportunity to make the right decision, and then hold you accountable for your idiocy.
You know that posts like this don't really accomplish anything, right? Why not leave the insults at home and try to actually, you know, explain yourself?
Looking back over things, I think that the vote(s) on Numegil are well placed. [b]Unvote, Vote Numegil
I probably jumped the gun with voting Dagger. But I really can't see anyone being suspicious of GR for any reason; when I read his posts all I see is 'obvtown'
I don't have any problem pushing at Numegil, either, as I pretty much blasted his ridiculous post earlier. I hate the fact we typically end up shoving newer players around on Day One, but his lack of contribution is pretty awful.
RobRoy is another one who ruffled my feathers on the re-read, mainly because it feels like he's speaking peripherally about topics, something I referenced earlier as well.
So far through my reread and analysis robroy comes off consistantly poor. Not enough on numegil yet to earn my vote, atm really, and id prefer robroy.
Still not done with my recap (im on post 270....ill finish it by wed night, i swear to god), so im not going to add a vote yet.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
You know that posts like this don't really accomplish anything, right? Why not leave the insults at home and try to actually, you know, explain yourself?
You're right. I apologize. I believe I did explain myself sufficiently. But it wasn't an excuse to be a jerk.
He's made THREE total posts. His second post 204 is a bit wishy washy, but I don't think that and the third post pushes him past RobRoy in my opinion, though like i said, im 150 posts behind in my running analyses.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Our heroes are rattling on about this and that, when discussion is momentarily interrupted by Alfred clearing his throat. He looks straight at JqlGirl, who looks back innocently. "What?" the hero inquires.
Alfred pulls a pistol out of seemingly nowhere. "I would be much obliged if you please put that back."
JqlGirl looks around sheepishly before pulling an expensive looking vase out of the depths of her costume. "Sorry..."
"Try something like that again and you will no longer be welcome in this house," Alfred says to the potential thief. "Now with that said, has anyone seen Numegil recently?"
Votecount 6 - A Big Break
CropCircles - 1 (Dagger)
Cubus - 1 (RobRoy)
Cyan - 2 (andelijah, The Mad Tapper)
DYH - 2 (Abandon Hope, Cubus)
JqlGirl - 1 (infinis)
Numegil - 4 (Some One, Cyan, DYH, JqlGirl)
RobRoy - 1 (goatrevolt)
With 19 alive, it's 10 to lynch. There will be no modkill for JqlGirl's edit because I'm not feeling wrathful, but the next person to try something like that may not be so lucky.
I rest my case. I can draw comparisons, but I'm scummy for drawing comparisons? You're tripping over yourself trying to explain how attacking a player can't be used to determine their alignment. Attacks are used to generate a response, with which you can get a feel for their respective alignment.
You are drawing comparisons with only one possible conclusion (two if you count the null hypothesis). There are no counter-comparisons, nor, as you say, should the comparisons themselves be conclusive. What is your purpose in posting them?
So a grand total of 4 characters are Marvel or DC. Why did we have that criteria for the softclaim again?
Maybe all the Others should say whether their characters originated in Comics/TV/Movies/Books or something to balance things out?
And if anything, as the SK a person is inclined to be much less aggressive, not more so.
Unless, of course, the SK can't die. Yeah, that might change things.
As for Numegil, I don't remember any of his posts (which would usually be a point against him), but just based on how his wagon is going I would bet he's town.
As for Numegil, I don't remember any of his posts (which would usually be a point against him), but just based on how his wagon is going I would bet he's town.
Wow...this is some terrible stuff right here.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
TMT chews on his eraser as he reads over his notes on JqlGirl. She's too cautious. Trying very hard to explain away her vote on the newest wagon. Trying to preemptively excuse jumping off it. Not to mention her unnatural fixations with late Ming Dynasty pottery and over-the-counter cough syrup. He hesitates for a moment. He's been wrong about her before. But there's too much at stake here, too much to give her a pass. He takes a deep breath and jumps off the nearby stairs. For freedom! For justice!"
Two people who have just been in a shouting match suddenly agree upon one suspect immediately? Going to say I like my chances.
Or the person could be really really bad in a post and be scum to the point of which both players drop what they're doing and vote him (Regardless of whether they're both town, scum or some mix).
Such a lack of interest in the prompting post is...curious.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Post 129 you suggest the subclaim (DC/Marvel/Other). Post 133 you want to hear what Roja thinks about it.
Then by Post 142 you say you don't think a subset claim will do much.
Then why suggest it?
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I rest my case. I can draw comparisons, but I'm scummy for drawing comparisons? You're tripping over yourself trying to explain how attacking a player can't be used to determine their alignment. Attacks are used to generate a response, with which you can get a feel for their respective alignment.
No, you have not contradicted yourself. That's not what I'm arguing. I just don't buy into why you would try to generate discussion on an idea you didn't agree with.
Let me ask you this: What did you expect to gain from such a discussion? Secondly, What if the majority of people agreed that it was a good idea. How would you have responded?
Huh.
E / FEMALE / Other
(owned)
[The Family]
I'll post the rest of my thoughts later today, when I'm not as occupied.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
I was tempted to say something similar, but apparently Ged thinks you cover requirements of the fairer sex for the entire group by yourself. You're truly deserving of wider recognition.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
I've been wrong before. And I'm pretty sure that "the majority of people disagreeing with me" is exactly what happened, so you can read the thread to see my response.
When I initially thought about the possibility of a D1 mass-claim (partial or full) I decided that it probably wouldn't be good, which is why I didn't bring it up myself. 2.5 days later, we were still making jokes instead of providing content, and Cubus brought up the softclaim idea. At that point I figured I'd toss fulllclaim in on top of it to promote discussion and help make sure we got to the meat of the game.
in regards to a segment of your post -
Do you think we missed something from the setup that would make false claiming harder than it currently seems? At this time, only 2 people have overlapped in their claims, so even if one of them is scum (hypothetically), all the rest of the scum can proceed safely with their false claims (3 players still need to soft-claim). That being said, is the mod a liar, or did something go overlooked? I'm trying to determine what he could have meant by "false claiming will be hard enough as it is," but most things would be impossible to determine at this point only given the name of my character and no one else's.
Cubus and Roja killed my original theory, but this second theory is stronger. However, without knowing more about anyone else's PM my theory won't stand up yet on it's own.
12-11? I'm losing track
I'm E/Female/Other then.
I don't have much else to say to you, DYH. You have a really minor point against me, and are trying to make it out like it is some tremendous case. But it's not.
I'm not following - can you try to be a little more specific with what you are looking for?
~Tilde~ : S / Male / Other
Abandon Hope :
andelijah : Y / Male / Other
ced395 : B / Male / Other
CropCircles : E / Female / Other
Cubus : R / Male / DC
Cyan : E / Female / Other
Dagger : M / Male / Other
DYH : I / Male / Other
goatrevolt : D / Male / Other
Infinis : F / Male / Other
JqlGirl : H / Male / Other
loran16 : N / Male / DC
Numegil : B / Male / Other
RobRoy : D / Male / Other
Roja : T / Male / Marvel
Some One : S / Male / DC
spotofprey : P / Male / Other
The Mad Tapper : S / Male / Other
That just leaves Abandon Hope without a soft claim. Has this helped you out in any way DYH, or will we have to wait until tomorrow before you enlighten us further?
I am disappointed that CC and Cyan's claims overlap, because I'm pretty sure that one of the two is who I think they are, and unless Ged is being very twisted with setting up the role, that character in question is extremely likely to be town (IMHO).
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
[The Family]
Your stance till that post:
1. You elaborated on AH's post in #212. That peaked my interest because I have never seen a player explaining the rationale behind another player's post before unprovoked and out-of-the-blue as you did. Furthermore, in that explanation you did not add in your own opinions as I would have expected of anyone elaborating on someone's else post. I interpreted it as you were trying to seem "active" but then it made no sense since you were already quite active.
2. You were suspicious of DYH "barning" you. Originally, I chalked you up as town based on that because I have seen inexperienced players who are less certain of themselves wondering aloud why would more experienced players keep agreeing with or supporting them unless said experienced players are scums. But then said paranoia I usually attributed to newer players, and the last time I checked, you are not an inexperienced player. I interpreted it as you were conscious of being in the spotlight or fear being given the credit of the soft claims.
3. You were wavering between Cyan and DYH. You stated uncertainty on both and then provided reasons either could be scum. It felt like you didn't want to commit or to go against either one of them. You gave off a neutral vibe in your opinions on them. I interpreted it as you wanted to give an opinion on the arguments but didn't want to lean one way or the other.
So, in short, you felt like a neutral?
I would say FF7 is irrelevant because you were the SK there and not mafia, and BR is different enough in mechanics and scum groups differentiation that it cannot be used as an example to clear yourself.
@Tilde: I believe you missed a question of mine from earlier. Just trying to confirm that you did miss it and was not deliberately ignoring it.
More to come soon.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
How about company?
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
I did miss that. My opinion is that while mass claims, in all their various forms, are accepted as a pro-town move, they won't necessarily be instigated by a townie.
If the mafia have pregame discussion or false claims, then they might push the idea of a day 1 claim, simply because they have more knowledge of the game's setup, and a mass claim could point out the best NK targets for them while simultaneously getting some townie points.
Take this game for example. A great majority of the players here are "Other". Cubus, Loran16, Roja and SomeOne are therefore the odd people out. I would be amazed, no... utterly shocked, if at the end of the game, they all turned up scum. I find it extremely unlikely that a game would be broken so easily nowadays.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Or, it could be exactly like he said. He recognized it as something DYH has done repeatedly when he was scum and called him on it.
Having 2 scum groups instead of one is not that different in mechanics. And if anything, as the SK a person is inclined to be much less aggressive, not more so. Nice try though.
This is a ridiculous smear. GR acted exactly like you would expect a townie to act in that situation. He gave his thoughts on each involved party, ultimately concluding that neither seemed like scum overall.
Unvote, Vote Dagger
I'll check in later for actual content. This claiming business was a bad idea, for posterity's sake.
CropCircles - 1 (Dagger)
Cubus - 1 (RobRoy)
Cyan - 5 (DYH, andelijah, CropCircles, ~Tilde~, The Mad Tapper)
Dagger - 1 (Cyan)
DYH - 2 (Abandon Hope, Cubus)
JqlGirl - 1 (infinis)
RobRoy - 1 (goatrevolt)
With 19 alive, it's 10 to lynch.
Side note: It would help if you'd actually ever explained why you thought it was a bad idea, rather than simply having made one (maybe 2) cryptic posts sort of maybe talking about it.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Honestly, great. I'm sick of arguing with you, anyway. Takes too much of my time to respond to those gargantuan back-and-forths.
But, you need to cut the propaganda until you produce some proof of this accusation. I'm perfectly willing to shelve the rest of the argument for now because people will eventually come to see you're scum, but I doubt I'm going to convince anyone else on Day 1. If you do want to continue with the attacks though, you need to substantiate them, and this is one of which you've provided no proof, and I have already given examples of my doing it as a townie.
FYI: I'm going to have limited activity coming up; I'm on vacation Wed-Sun. My son's birthday is Wednesday, a buddy is coming into town for a Sevendust concert Thursday, and my parents are coming into town for the weekend on Friday.
Before that, though, I'm going to try a re-read ignoring Cyan to see what else pops up.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Unvote
Posting from my phone now, but I might have something to say when I get home.
[The Family]
I gather you were providing an excuse in advance for not participating in the discussion on Day 1, and then stated you would entirely be willing to join in the lynch if it comes to pass?
If you don't see them as scums, why not say so? Also, define "solid evidence" of a case in Day 1? In your mind, what would you say is "solid evidence"?
I don't understand how you could be saying that with several games already under your belt? Basically you are excusing yourself from doing any scum-hunting on Day 1?
Or it could be exactly like what I said. Also, DYH repeatedly barn people when he is scum? I don't really recall that.
I beg to differ. Having 2 scum groups makes a lot of difference. Just check out Doomsday as an example of a completed game with 2 scum groups. Also, a player acts differently as an SK than as a mafioso. You simply cannot equate it to your normal scum play as an SK. IIRC, you were near-invulnerable anyway as an SK in that game, so your aggressiveness should be more prevalent in said game (seeing as I didn't read FF7).
Is it? If GR did indeed act like what I would expect a townie to act in that situation, I wouldn't have called him out on that in the first place.
A few notes:
1. I seriously doubt DYH is scum, based on my experience playing with him.
2. I am less certain on Loran's townieness due to him being cryptic about Cyan. It reminds me far too much of HP when he was doing the exact same thing about AI as well in preparation for his mason (scum) claim.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Yeah, that's a head scratcher moment for me too, though mine came with a side order of ominous doom.
Unvote
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
I still think Cyan is scum; I just don't think this group will lynch him day one. Heck, I can't get one more person to get him to claim range.
You'll notice my vote hasn't moved. I'm just fine with stopping the ridiculous back-and-forths. The case is still there.
That doesn't preclude me from finding other people who I think are scum, which is what the re-read is intending to accomplish.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
makes me want to Vote Numegil.
If this doesn't reek of noob scum, please tell me what does (avoid directing me to myself in noob 20, kthanks). Furthermore, I don't like the fact he hasn't posted since to address others' points in regards to this post and only posted three times thus far, on the 6th, the 9th, and this, on the 13th. If the game doesn't start with the pointing of fingers, where should it start, Numegil?
Despite the lack of information from the wealth of Others, we still have gender and letter. I don't think it'll do us much good to waste time on getting more soft-claim information at this point.
What exactly was the point of this? If you could read well enough to figure that you were no longer convinced Cyan should be pressured, you should also have been able to see that he was down to 5 votes, so not near claim range anymore. Why take the time to unvote, then?
That's not conducive to how mafia is played.
[The Family]
Your two sentences explained why you thought it would not help, oh apocalyptic one. But even if flavor and alignment are asynchronous, that is not the only purpose a sub-claim would server. What reason do you have to believe that the town has made an error? Or are you merely feigning indignation to disguise your attempt to thwart our efforts in saving Danger City?
Record: 3-2
Simpsons Mafia (Newbie) - Vanilla Mafia - Win
The Fiasco Corporation - Town Reporter - Loss
Doomsday Mafia - Mafia Roleblocker - Win
Battle Royale Mafia - Serial Daykiller - Loss
Danger City Mafia - Vanilla Town - Win
Umm, a. Two sentences by a single player will never "crush" an idea created by another player. Anyone who thinks they would has a way too high opinion of one's self. b. People obviously asked you to clarify, which you never really well did.
Soooo...... Fail?
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Sorry, had work on the brain. That word was supposed to be "serve", not "server".
Record: 3-2
Simpsons Mafia (Newbie) - Vanilla Mafia - Win
The Fiasco Corporation - Town Reporter - Loss
Doomsday Mafia - Mafia Roleblocker - Win
Battle Royale Mafia - Serial Daykiller - Loss
Danger City Mafia - Vanilla Town - Win
I agree with this statement. I mean what next? We would be just getting closer and closer from asking for a full claim.
I am really shocked to see the number of others.
And I hope everyone had a great holiday weekend. (Currently re-reading the posts that happened in the last 3-5 days.)
Nothing. I would need to know or have a strong idea of another player's name in order for my theory to stand up. Two people, you and I, can be a coincidence, a third person could be coincidence as well but I'd like to believe it would be more towards a theme.
12-11? I'm losing track
I think I see where Infinis might be going. The character I had thought of when CC soft-claimed (the "E/Female/Other" role) fits into my working theory about the game setup, but at the moment it's just that... a theory. It'll probably be at least day 2 before I'd consider suggesting it.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
You know that posts like this don't really accomplish anything, right? Why not leave the insults at home and try to actually, you know, explain yourself?
I probably jumped the gun with voting Dagger. But I really can't see anyone being suspicious of GR for any reason; when I read his posts all I see is 'obvtown'
RobRoy is another one who ruffled my feathers on the re-read, mainly because it feels like he's speaking peripherally about topics, something I referenced earlier as well.
Vote: Numegil
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Still not done with my recap (im on post 270....ill finish it by wed night, i swear to god), so im not going to add a vote yet.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
What do you mean not enough on Numegil?
He's made THREE total posts. His second post 204 is a bit wishy washy, but I don't think that and the third post pushes him past RobRoy in my opinion, though like i said, im 150 posts behind in my running analyses.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Alfred pulls a pistol out of seemingly nowhere. "I would be much obliged if you please put that back."
JqlGirl looks around sheepishly before pulling an expensive looking vase out of the depths of her costume. "Sorry..."
"Try something like that again and you will no longer be welcome in this house," Alfred says to the potential thief. "Now with that said, has anyone seen Numegil recently?"
Votecount 6 - A Big Break
CropCircles - 1 (Dagger)
Cubus - 1 (RobRoy)
Cyan - 2 (andelijah, The Mad Tapper)
DYH - 2 (Abandon Hope, Cubus)
JqlGirl - 1 (infinis)
Numegil - 4 (Some One, Cyan, DYH, JqlGirl)
RobRoy - 1 (goatrevolt)
With 19 alive, it's 10 to lynch. There will be no modkill for JqlGirl's edit because I'm not feeling wrathful, but the next person to try something like that may not be so lucky.
No.
Unless, of course, the SK can't die. Yeah, that might change things.
As for Numegil, I don't remember any of his posts (which would usually be a point against him), but just based on how his wagon is going I would bet he's town.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
Wow...this is some terrible stuff right here.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
unvote, vote JqlGirl
Record: 3-2
Simpsons Mafia (Newbie) - Vanilla Mafia - Win
The Fiasco Corporation - Town Reporter - Loss
Doomsday Mafia - Mafia Roleblocker - Win
Battle Royale Mafia - Serial Daykiller - Loss
Danger City Mafia - Vanilla Town - Win
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
Or the person could be really really bad in a post and be scum to the point of which both players drop what they're doing and vote him (Regardless of whether they're both town, scum or some mix).
Such a lack of interest in the prompting post is...curious.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Is Ged being consistent with the player and not the role, or did JqlGirl give some "questionable" info in that soft claim?
Vote JqlGirl, pending clarification from the mod.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.