L-2 means there are two votes until lynch. This is normally when it is customary for a role claim. By official he means pending a mod votecount.
Just to confirm: Is it customary to role claim at L-2 or L-0? If the latter, once 7 votes are hit, if no one unvotes before the Ariminaes sees a player at 7 votes, does the lynch occur regardless of role claim? Why bother at that point?
And what does a "role claim" consist of?
E_P: I'm going to be very sad if we lynch you and you turn out to be townie...because I'm definitely getting the scummy vibe from you. Maybe I just suck at this....
Just to confirm: Is it customary to role claim at L-2 or L-0? If the latter, once 7 votes are hit, if no one unvotes before the Ariminaes sees a player at 7 votes, does the lynch occur regardless of role claim? Why bother at that point?
As soon as it hits L-0 that player is dead no matter what. It is then twilight and the night actions occur.
And what does a "role claim" consist of?
You'll see soon. I will give a full claim without quoting text from my role pm.
E_P: I'm going to be very sad if we lynch you and you turn out to be townie...because I'm definitely getting the scummy vibe from you. Maybe I just suck at this....
You're just lucky that a good chunk of the scum are on the wagon, and not watching it. I'm most certainly town.
I said I've been trying... except it hasn't been working out perfectly. If you look at my past posts the delaying discussions I've started weren't intentional and I tried with varying success to steer the conversation back towards the true goal.
The difference between you and me is while mine were accidental, you have been actively pursuing a path that is not only pointless, but is purposely preventing us from being able to have a serious discussion, since we have to discuss your mass claim notion. This seems to be very scummy behavior to me.
I said I've been trying... except it hasn't been working out perfectly. If you look at my past posts the delaying discussions I've started weren't intentional and I tried with varying success to steer the conversation back towards the true goal.
The difference between you and me is while mine were accidental, you have been actively pursuing a path that is not only pointless, but is purposely preventing us from being able to have a serious discussion, since we have to discuss your mass claim notion. This seems to be very scummy behavior to me.
Pot calling the kettle black to a T.
You say your discussion were active attempts to engage the town, but were fruitless.
You then say my discussion were fruitless as well, but then claim the difference is in me "actively pursuing" which isn't true. I brought up my thoughts, had a short back and forth with LD, and the town gave their response. I have not been beating the claim to death, just an idea I had.
It's simple. If the idea of a claim is not good to you, you would do as Ace says and say whether you are for or against it. Some people have voted for me as well, because they view my opinions as role fishing. The point I would bring up is that role fishing that obviously is not only dumb, but makes no sense.
In the end, the mass claim was a bad idea that gave me a lot of information. I would say there is at least one scum voting for me right this second, and there is a good chance a second is on the wagon too.
After reading all of this mass claim nonsense, it seems like a rather pointless idea and kinda scummy as it could have been a way to lure power-roles into saying the role due to lack of inexperience. For that reason, I am unvote, Vote: Emo_Pinata.
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Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
@guardman, tbh, you haven't done much to spark any sort of real conversation excpet be difficult and bicker with the pinata, but I'm not holding that against you.
Well maybe that's true, but I actually see this bickering with EP as real discussion since it seems to be getting us somewhere. As for the being difficult, well yeah, I guess a little.
Well maybe that's true, but I actually see this bickering with EP as real discussion since it seems to be getting us somewhere. As for the being difficult, well yeah, I guess a little.
Also EP is at L-1 if my math is right.
Agreed. Shall someone unvote to prevent hammering?
After reading all of this mass claim nonsense, it seems like a rather pointless idea and kinda scummy as it could have been a way to lure power-roles into saying the role due to lack of inexperience. For that reason, I am unvote, Vote: Emo_Pinata.
Wow, you summarised the last few pages without actually contributing anything.
I am the Seraph Lamington. I came from Celestia to iron out the difficulties in the Netherworld when peace with king Laharl's rule ended. When I landed on the plane I lost my powers, and now am a complete vanilla townie.
The people I think are scummiest:
Timlock Smash, for responding to a mass claim with "no, vote EP" and KeyofDestiny for needlessly putting me at L-1 safely avoiding the hammer while lurking into the wagon.
Unvote. This game has gotten serious, and my vote on Seph was not serious.
I've got a few different things I don't like about how EP has handled this whole thing, and the vanilla claim is as always a null tell that doesn't really help him if true OR if false. I don't have time to go into detail.
That said, the wagon is full of barning and just on-jumping, and that will give us info later whether or not we kill EP.
Agreed. Shall someone unvote to prevent hammering?
Wow, you summarised the last few pages without actually contributing anything.
FoS: KeyofDestiny
Everything that needs to be said has been said. Do you want me to give a made up reason why I'm voting for him or just vote for him randomly? Thanks for the Finger though.
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KeyofDestiny, Animated God of Barning of The Æesir.
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
E_P's response to this seems really weird... You say you got a lot of information from the whole mass claim thing. Mind sharing some of it with us? If you have a suspicion about who is scum, it would be nice to hear the reasoning...
I think he is at L-1, so I won't vote until we get a claim from him. Just in case.
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Signature from Nakamura and Heroes of the Planes Studios.
EBWODP: Oops, didn't see that there was a page 10.
*reads through*
Unvote, because that was from a while.
I am not completely convinced by E_P's claim - the flavor seems fine (though I no nothing about Disgaea) and that is what is holding me from voting. Would a scum come up with the whole flavor portion, etc. for a false claim?
FoS: Emo_Pinata
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Would a scum come up with the whole flavor portion, etc. for a false claim?
If they wanted the claim to be a good one, then there's a good chance they would. I tend to ignore flavor-related info when it is provided in claims because it could be real or fake.
I will say that this game is the sort that is likely to have the names and flavor actually match up with alignment, because there is a clear flavor to Disgaea.
I am not completely convinced by E_P's claim - the flavor seems fine (though I no nothing about Disgaea) and that is what is holding me from voting. Would a scum come up with the whole flavor portion, etc. for a false claim?
Seraph Lamington is the bad guy and final boss of Disgaea. Is the flavor usually relevant to what they are? And I don't understand the "when I landed on the plane" part. What plane?
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KeyofDestiny, Animated God of Barning of The Æesir.
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
If they wanted the claim to be a good one, then there's a good chance they would. I tend to ignore flavor-related info when it is provided in claims because it could be real or fake.
I will say that this game is the sort that is likely to have the names and flavor actually match up with alignment, because there is a clear flavor to Disgaea.
I agree with LampDwellr here, especially the first part.
Also if there is a correlation between flavor and alignment (which I think there probably is), then Emo Pinata being Seraph Lamington would mean that he is defiantly scum. I mean the Seraph is the most evil person in the game, he turned poor Flonne into a flower, just because she hurt other angels while trying to stop them from taking over the three worlds. So either in that case he is lying either about being a vanilla townie, or being Seraph Lamington.
Hmm... this may sound a bit extreme, but lynching Emo Pinata would be a great way to not only check if his claim is true, but if the flavor and roles actually match up.
@KeyofDestiny: Also the plane EP is speaking of is the Netherworld.
Seraph Lamington is the bad guy and final boss of Disgaea. Is the flavor usually relevant to what they are? And I don't understand the "when I landed on the plane" part. What plane?
I agree with LampDwellr here, especially the first part.
Also if there is a correlation between flavor and alignment (which I think there probably is), then Emo Pinata being Seraph Lamington would mean that he is defiantly scum. I mean the Seraph is the most evil person in the game, he turned poor Flonne into a flower, just because she hurt other angels while trying to stop them from taking over the three worlds. So either in that case he is lying either about being a vanilla townie, or being Seraph Lamington.
Being a bad guy would usually make a person more likely to be mafia in a highly flavored setup like this one.
I urge everyone to read their role pms carefully. This right here could be very telling.
I know who the final boss of the Disgaea universe is, why would I claim the name without providing the key role information given in my pm. There cannot soly be demons in the town and me, and it should be clear that this would be a terrible nameclaim for a vanilla townie from a scum.
I'm pretty new to the game, not completely ignorant.
You slipped up with your whole FOS instead of vote thing. I'm surprised Lamp didn't catch it.
I may not have read this the same way you did. Are you saying he was avoiding hammering or what? Just a little more explanation would be helpful kpaca.
If they wanted the claim to be a good one, then there's a good chance they would. I tend to ignore flavor-related info when it is provided in claims because it could be real or fake.
I will say that this game is the sort that is likely to have the names and flavor actually match up with alignment, because there is a clear flavor to Disgaea.
First off he wouldn't have been hammering because of the unvote before him. Second off talking about how your suspicious of someone but then not being willing to commit yourself totally to a vote for a bull crap reason is a phenomanal scum tell.
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First off he wouldn't have been hammering because of the unvote before him. Second off talking about how your suspicious of someone but then not being willing to commit yourself totally to a vote for a bull crap reason is a phenomanal scum tell.
I don't necessarily agree with the second point in a near-lynch situation. I would agree if he had been at like L-3 or something but I saw this somehow as a desire not to end D1.
Wow... I didn't notice how scummy it was until the reread inspired by kpaca.
unvote, vote LD
What I said there was not mutually exclusive. Tending to ignore stuff and having actual issues with the stuff that's there--whatever that may be--can happen at the same time. In this case they are.
It wouldn't have been a hammer at L-2. What is was a way of saying "yeah I'm with you guys, but since I already know he's not scum I don't want to commit to it since it may make me suspicious tomorrow." It is a classic scumtell, on which I accidently fell into in Hamlet mafia and Ahasver fell into in Star Trek mafia (if you want examples).
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It wouldn't have been a hammer at L-2. What is was a way of saying "yeah I'm with you guys, but since I already know he's not scum I don't want to commit to it since it may make me suspicious tomorrow." It is a classic scumtell, on which I accidently fell into in Hamlet mafia and Ahasver fell into in Star Trek mafia (if you want examples).
I hear this. Were you both scum in those games or what?
I was scum in Hamlet mafia and made the same mistake, Ahasver and I were both Scum in Star Trek when he made the mistake. Both times the town correctly picked up on it.
Townies don't worry about seeming suspicous like scum do, and thus don't plan thier actions around it.
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What I said there was not mutually exclusive. Tending to ignore stuff and having actual issues with the stuff that's there--whatever that may be--can happen at the same time. In this case they are.
I'm voting you because I h8 your version of the massclaim plan and your defenses relating to it.
Two more posts that don't make since. In the first you say voting for me based on flavor is OK in this case, then you follow it up with completely sepparate reasons to vote for me that come waay after the massclaim discussion.
I'm not sure if it's WIFOM on purpose or not, but it has me confused on your reason to vote.
I was scum in Hamlet mafia and made the same mistake, Ahasver and I were both Scum in Star Trek when he made the mistake. Both times the town correctly picked up on it.
Townies don't worry about seeming suspicous like scum do, and thus don't plan thier actions around it.
I am impressed with your reasoning here. I don't know if this is the case here, but I will go and read your examples.
Don't just be tempted. Follow through and read up on it like EP is doing (not that he matters it would be in his best interest to have votes go toward anyone right now). That said what we have witnessed from Callaway is a classic scum tell.
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Yeah well I can impressively reason something out about once in a blue moon between my flailing and screaming
OK I finished the read of Ahasver and Hamlet mafia.
In star trek I can see the clear fence sitting pointed out by Wuffles, but reading the end game Wuffles also knew that he was scum at the very beggining of the game.. so I don't know what to take form that. He could have just waited for sign of scum tell.
Though I will say that iLord did a good assesment of the situation, and there were other town members that pointed out the obvious scumminess. Seppel and Soron (Taylor) really messed up the read, but it's a good point in hindsight.
Hamlet mafia is a mess. I read up on it, but I do not see what you're saying really. I could have got lost in all of the role playing though...
1) Bandwagoning your vote when someone's near-lynch can be interpreted as scummy the day after if the lynched proves town.
2) Callaway, as scum, didn't want to leap into 1), so he waved to the E_P bandwagon as it passed so as to promote suspicion and allow for a later, less-volatile vote of E_P where he wouldn't be suspected.
3) 2) is a scum-tell, so Callaway = scum. Which is fine, unless Callaway really was confused about E_P's posts. Are his actions really as 100% definite scum-tell as you seem to be making them out to be?
I mean honestly guys this game is more of something in the entertainment forum than a mafia game.
I can understand you saying this, but this is a newbie game. I started out being more aggressive, then got blasted for being overanxious and newb-happy. Several of us are still finding our game footing; even after reading several Day 1's in other games, I'm still not sure what passes as "active progress" in day 1 and what's just random "entertainment" as you put it.
I appreciate you providing your insights, but at the same time, some of your comments feel like you're rubbing the newer faces in the fact that they're new...
I appreciate you providing your insights, but at the same time, some of your comments feel like you're rubbing the newer faces in the fact that they're new...
All of the more expirienced player will do that to some degree or another. The reasont hey do it isn't to be mean, but to be harsh to new players in order to not bring another Seppel about.
What mean this L-2 you speak of? Lynch - 2 (= 5 votes for you)? And on(c)e it's officially to L-0 (7 votes), you'll name/role claim?
L -7 means there is 0 votes on a person
L - 0 means they're lynched.
I'm at L-2, waiting for the mod to confirm the votes to claim.
I didn't know talking about strategy in tic-tac-toe, how flavor must be important, and pulling the newb card is helpful content...
nathed by kpaca
Just to confirm: Is it customary to role claim at L-2 or L-0? If the latter, once 7 votes are hit, if no one unvotes before the Ariminaes sees a player at 7 votes, does the lynch occur regardless of role claim? Why bother at that point?
And what does a "role claim" consist of?
E_P: I'm going to be very sad if we lynch you and you turn out to be townie...because I'm definitely getting the scummy vibe from you. Maybe I just suck at this....
As soon as it hits L-0 that player is dead no matter what. It is then twilight and the night actions occur.
You'll see soon. I will give a full claim without quoting text from my role pm.
You're just lucky that a good chunk of the scum are on the wagon, and not watching it. I'm most certainly town.
The difference between you and me is while mine were accidental, you have been actively pursuing a path that is not only pointless, but is purposely preventing us from being able to have a serious discussion, since we have to discuss your mass claim notion. This seems to be very scummy behavior to me.
Pot calling the kettle black to a T.
You say your discussion were active attempts to engage the town, but were fruitless.
You then say my discussion were fruitless as well, but then claim the difference is in me "actively pursuing" which isn't true. I brought up my thoughts, had a short back and forth with LD, and the town gave their response. I have not been beating the claim to death, just an idea I had.
It's simple. If the idea of a claim is not good to you, you would do as Ace says and say whether you are for or against it. Some people have voted for me as well, because they view my opinions as role fishing. The point I would bring up is that role fishing that obviously is not only dumb, but makes no sense.
In the end, the mass claim was a bad idea that gave me a lot of information. I would say there is at least one scum voting for me right this second, and there is a good chance a second is on the wagon too.
And you believe these people are who?.... and why?
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
Well maybe that's true, but I actually see this bickering with EP as real discussion since it seems to be getting us somewhere. As for the being difficult, well yeah, I guess a little.
Also EP is at L-1 if my math is right.
2 Ace - Callaway, Sephiroth Owa
1 Guardman - Emo_Pinata
1 Sephiroth Owa - Lampdwellr
2 Not Voting - Ace, lostandthedamned
With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.
Agreed. Shall someone unvote to prevent hammering?
Wow, you summarised the last few pages without actually contributing anything.
FoS: KeyofDestiny
I am the Seraph Lamington. I came from Celestia to iron out the difficulties in the Netherworld when peace with king Laharl's rule ended. When I landed on the plane I lost my powers, and now am a complete vanilla townie.
The people I think are scummiest:
Timlock Smash, for responding to a mass claim with "no, vote EP" and KeyofDestiny for needlessly putting me at L-1 safely avoiding the hammer while lurking into the wagon.
As it stands now:
unvote, vote KeyofDestiny
FOS: Timlock Smash
I've got a few different things I don't like about how EP has handled this whole thing, and the vanilla claim is as always a null tell that doesn't really help him if true OR if false. I don't have time to go into detail.
That said, the wagon is full of barning and just on-jumping, and that will give us info later whether or not we kill EP.
Everything that needs to be said has been said. Do you want me to give a made up reason why I'm voting for him or just vote for him randomly? Thanks for the Finger though.
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
Your the only person I think I have a scummy tell on. Of course I'm going to vote for you...
But I can see what you mean by putting you at L-1 is a bad move. My bad.
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
E_P's response to this seems really weird... You say you got a lot of information from the whole mass claim thing. Mind sharing some of it with us? If you have a suspicion about who is scum, it would be nice to hear the reasoning...
I think he is at L-1, so I won't vote until we get a claim from him. Just in case.
Signature from Nakamura and Heroes of the Planes Studios.
MAFIA STATS
Scum
Basic 17 (Afterlife) - lose
Basic 15 (Coffeehouse) - win
Duel Monsters - lose
Manipulator - lose
Town
Anita Blake - lose
Basic 17 (Demonata) - lose
Canada - ongoing
Ongoing
Basic 24
*reads through*
Unvote, because that was from a while.
I am not completely convinced by E_P's claim - the flavor seems fine (though I no nothing about Disgaea) and that is what is holding me from voting. Would a scum come up with the whole flavor portion, etc. for a false claim?
FoS: Emo_Pinata
Signature from Nakamura and Heroes of the Planes Studios.
MAFIA STATS
Scum
Basic 17 (Afterlife) - lose
Basic 15 (Coffeehouse) - win
Duel Monsters - lose
Manipulator - lose
Town
Anita Blake - lose
Basic 17 (Demonata) - lose
Canada - ongoing
Ongoing
Basic 24
If they wanted the claim to be a good one, then there's a good chance they would. I tend to ignore flavor-related info when it is provided in claims because it could be real or fake.
I will say that this game is the sort that is likely to have the names and flavor actually match up with alignment, because there is a clear flavor to Disgaea.
Seraph Lamington is the bad guy and final boss of Disgaea. Is the flavor usually relevant to what they are? And I don't understand the "when I landed on the plane" part. What plane?
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
I agree with LampDwellr here, especially the first part.
Also if there is a correlation between flavor and alignment (which I think there probably is), then Emo Pinata being Seraph Lamington would mean that he is defiantly scum. I mean the Seraph is the most evil person in the game, he turned poor Flonne into a flower, just because she hurt other angels while trying to stop them from taking over the three worlds. So either in that case he is lying either about being a vanilla townie, or being Seraph Lamington.
I'm guessing he didn't know?
@KeyofDestiny: Also the plane EP is speaking of is the Netherworld.
I urge everyone to read their role pms carefully. This right here could be very telling.
I know who the final boss of the Disgaea universe is, why would I claim the name without providing the key role information given in my pm. There cannot soly be demons in the town and me, and it should be clear that this would be a terrible nameclaim for a vanilla townie from a scum.
I'm pretty new to the game, not completely ignorant.
You slipped up with your whole FOS instead of vote thing. I'm surprised Lamp didn't catch it.
I may not have read this the same way you did. Are you saying he was avoiding hammering or what? Just a little more explanation would be helpful kpaca.
That's because LD is voting based on flavor for the first time ever from what I know...
Wow... I didn't notice how scummy it was until the reread inspired by kpaca.
unvote, vote LD
I don't necessarily agree with the second point in a near-lynch situation. I would agree if he had been at like L-3 or something but I saw this somehow as a desire not to end D1.
What I said there was not mutually exclusive. Tending to ignore stuff and having actual issues with the stuff that's there--whatever that may be--can happen at the same time. In this case they are.
Triple posting is TECH!
Sorry.
I'm voting you because I h8 your version of the massclaim plan and your defenses relating to it.
I hear this. Were you both scum in those games or what?
Townies don't worry about seeming suspicous like scum do, and thus don't plan thier actions around it.
I don't understand. Care to explain?
I was thinking plane as in airplane rather that universe plane. Lol.
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
This is quite frankly amazing.
Moving on to scum hunting!
I mean honestly guys this game is more of something in the entertainment forum than a mafia game.
Two more posts that don't make since. In the first you say voting for me based on flavor is OK in this case, then you follow it up with completely sepparate reasons to vote for me that come waay after the massclaim discussion.
I'm not sure if it's WIFOM on purpose or not, but it has me confused on your reason to vote.
I am impressed with your reasoning here. I don't know if this is the case here, but I will go and read your examples.
*coughs*
Well, this is an interesting situation. Suggestions for the process? I'm tempted to agree with kpaca (it's a first!)
OK I finished the read of Ahasver and Hamlet mafia.
In star trek I can see the clear fence sitting pointed out by Wuffles, but reading the end game Wuffles also knew that he was scum at the very beggining of the game.. so I don't know what to take form that. He could have just waited for sign of scum tell.
Though I will say that iLord did a good assesment of the situation, and there were other town members that pointed out the obvious scumminess. Seppel and Soron (Taylor) really messed up the read, but it's a good point in hindsight.
Hamlet mafia is a mess. I read up on it, but I do not see what you're saying really. I could have got lost in all of the role playing though...
1) Bandwagoning your vote when someone's near-lynch can be interpreted as scummy the day after if the lynched proves town.
2) Callaway, as scum, didn't want to leap into 1), so he waved to the E_P bandwagon as it passed so as to promote suspicion and allow for a later, less-volatile vote of E_P where he wouldn't be suspected.
3) 2) is a scum-tell, so Callaway = scum. Which is fine, unless Callaway really was confused about E_P's posts. Are his actions really as 100% definite scum-tell as you seem to be making them out to be?
Wow. HamletMafia was screwy.
I can understand you saying this, but this is a newbie game. I started out being more aggressive, then got blasted for being overanxious and newb-happy. Several of us are still finding our game footing; even after reading several Day 1's in other games, I'm still not sure what passes as "active progress" in day 1 and what's just random "entertainment" as you put it.
I appreciate you providing your insights, but at the same time, some of your comments feel like you're rubbing the newer faces in the fact that they're new...
All of the more expirienced player will do that to some degree or another. The reasont hey do it isn't to be mean, but to be harsh to new players in order to not bring another Seppel about.