Random lynch techniques = lack of care for fellow vassals (which is understandable both flavorwise and Day-1-wise, but still) = slightly scummy.
Lack of concern for self = sense of security = scummy, imo.
FOS Emo_Pinata upgraded to my first official VOTE: Emo_Pinata.
Guardman is still confusing, but I'm not sure that it's intentional. If he were intentionally trying to spread chaos and disorder, I'd FOS him, but as is...still the lacklustre FOC.
I feel that his seemingly confusing posting style is a good start for more serious discussion about the game. As to the random vote, I included myself intentionally to vote myself if it landed on me. Also, it does not show a lack of caring for fellow vassals because no one is even close to being lynched right now. Putting someone at L-8 or L-9 is meaningless.
Lack of concern for myself is most certainly not scummy. Look at the first few pages of Amastarian Mafia to see the self vote put inot action many times in the random phase.
(Sorry to the forum for the double-post, but I may be afk for a bit, and I didn't want to forget:)
Double positng is fine in mafia as long as you have a reason to. There is absolutely no editing allowed, and the common proceedure is to add a:
EBWODP: (Edit By Way Of Double Posting)
To add to a post.
Emo_Pinata: In case you care, you didn't unvote Ace before voting Guardman.
Thank you. unvote, vote Guardman.
And Guardman actually showed concern for your well-being by pointing out that if you're going to draw lots for your lynchvote, you should take yourself out of the mix...for that you turn on him? Interesting...
His erratic posting style and confusion is more scummy than anything else here. Take you for example, you are the now classic case of Taylor (aka Soron) in Star Trek. You are overanalysing posts because you're new and excited.
I "turned" on Guardman because his eagerness is probably not due to the game, otherwise it would be a manifestation similar to yours. Already, it has started real discussion in the game.
@emo_pinata - Why did you use a random method, let the vote stand, then switch almost immediately?
If guardman was you best lead then why bother with the randomness?
The additional pouncing on my post was what finally convinced me to it being more scummy than excited. He wants to move onward with votes that could lead somewhere, not just purely random voting.
And, as I said, it's the best lead on anyone I can see and a good place to start serious discussion.
@Guardman - Why did you act surprised about the confusion. Do you not see your posts slightly odd?
Well considering most peaple think they are normal until told so, not really. Plus this is my first game of Mafia, so I don't really know what is odd or not.
Also I am keeping KeyofDestiny voted for right now, but it is tentative. But since I don't have any better leads I will leave him for now. But I do have several FoS:
Emo_Pinata: For wanting to stay in the random voting phase instead of moving onto the more serious voting. Seems scummy to me...
Cantripmancer: For being SoronTh, err... Taylor from Star Trek...
rumetzen: For not posting yet...
I feel that his seemingly confusing posting style is a good start for more serious discussion about the game. As to the random vote, I included myself intentionally to vote myself if it landed on me. Also, it does not show a lack of caring for fellow vassals because no one is even close to being lynched right now. Putting someone at L-8 or L-9 is meaningless.
Thank you. unvote, vote Guardman.
His erratic posting style and confusion is more scummy than anything else here. Take you for example, you are the now classic case of Taylor (aka Soron) in Star Trek. You are overanalysing posts because you're new and excited.
I "turned" on Guardman because his eagerness is probably not due to the game, otherwise it would be a manifestation similar to yours. Already, it has started real discussion in the game.
The additional pouncing on my post was what finally convinced me to it being more scummy than excited. He wants to move onward with votes that could lead somewhere, not just purely random voting.
And, as I said, it's the best lead on anyone I can see and a good place to start serious discussion.
From these two quotes, especially the bolded purple parts, it sounds like that you want to keep with the random votes, and because of that you are voting for me because I want to move onto the more serious votes. Though by doing this you are moving onto the more serious parts. I think I may just be confused by your posting style.
His erratic posting style and confusion is more scummy than anything else here. Take you for example, you are the now classic case of Taylor (aka Soron) in Star Trek. You are overanalysing posts because you're new and excited.
I "turned" on Guardman because his eagerness is probably not due to the game, otherwise it would be a manifestation similar to yours. Already, it has started real discussion in the game.
New and excited I may be... There seems a fine line in Day 1 to balance the inevitability of moving forward with the reserve of caution. I've read through a few Day 1's, but I still don't see where the breaking point occurs. I don't want to be reticent in my posting, nor do I want to commit a faux pas that could be misinterpreted.
Can you point to the "real discussion" that Guardman's confusion has led to? It almost feels like you're latching onto something just to move forward and calling it progress.
It still seems like the self-vote and randomization could be scummy, to me. Vote stands...for now.
@Toastboy: I think I read through that Day 1 that you reference where a mistake was made and it turned on you. I don't want to come off as overeager, but at the same time, Day 1 is horribly frustrating to me. I'm not a fan of games that are entirely dependent on luck, and I could potentially "lose" this one through "luck" if I'm lynched randomly on the first day.
Pinata is right cantripmancer, over-analysing too early can be a mistake.
In my last game that's what i did, got labelled as scumy for being 'overeager', and lynched for making a mistake.
I don't think anyone strikes me as anything bad right at this second, seems like we're still random voting.
Two mistakes, though I agree in principle with what you are saying.
@Toastboy: I think I read through that Day 1 that you reference where a mistake was made and it turned on you. I don't want to come off as overeager, but at the same time, Day 1 is horribly frustrating to me. I'm not a fan of games that are entirely dependent on luck, and I could potentially "lose" this one through "luck" if I'm lynched randomly on the first day.
Dying is not losing unless you are the SK or a survivor (which are somewhat atypical in newb games)...be less afraid. I was really afraid in Newb 24 and it did not help me. Dying can still help the town. Acting all scummy can't.
Dying is not losing unless you are the SK or a survivor (which are somewhat atypical in newb games)...be less afraid. I was really afraid in Newb 24 and it did not help me. Dying can still help the town. Acting all scummy can't.
Ah. I forgot. Townies win, all townies (even dead townies) win. Mafia win, all mafia (even dead mafia) win. Correct? I guess best practice is, if you end up being the sacrificial pig at the end of the first day, to offer as much insight and calm deliberation to the Day 1 proceedings as possible to give your team the optimal chance of winning at the end.
(Selfishness kicks in and says that I'd rather be a live townie who ferrets out the scum and win in that fashion...but I can accept that every Mafia game will have a sacrificial pig for round one, who may have achieved that title through little more than randomness.)
Still got my eye on Emo_P (I keep wanting to call him El_Paca...what's up with that?), but his suspicion rating is dropping.
Dying is not losing unless you are the SK or a survivor (which are somewhat atypical in newb games)...be less afraid. I was really afraid in Newb 24 and it did not help me. Dying can still help the town. Acting all scummy can't.
I for one have zero intention of dying for the greater good, I've always beleived the way to victory is not to die for your cause but to make the other guy die for his.
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I for one have zero intention of dying for the greater good, I've always beleived the way to victory is not to die for your cause but to make the other guy die for his.
Well sure but I guess my point is that townies don't have to be afraid of dying, so they should be aggressive.
Umm... Sorry for being a complete newb here, I've never played mafia before, but what exactly is going on? I've been following along with the posts, and I honestly don't see how you people are deciding to vote Guardman, or whoever. Can someone explain this to me? I get the basic idea and I know the rules, but the strategy is another matter...
Thanks for answering my question.
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Umm... Sorry for being a complete newb here, I've never played mafia before, but what exactly is going on? I've been following along with the posts, and I honestly don't see how you people are deciding to vote Guardman, or whoever. Can someone explain this to me? I get the basic idea and I know the rules, but the strategy is another matter...
Thanks for answering my question.
Actually it is quite simple what is going on here if you don't think the peaple posting here so far have a strategy. Instead everyone is just grasping straws at the moment trying to find something about anyone that could point to them as scum.
As for why peaple are voting for me, well actually only one person so far, but anyways it has to do with my posting style, that is apparently odd for a mafia game.
I've heard people say this before, but I don't agree.
Without a random phase we'd have absolutely no basis for further discussion.
Until a majority is reached a FOS/vote does nothing except announce your suspisions for every one else to examine, which in turn leads to further discussion. This can only be good for the town.
Townies are an Uninformed Majority, what they lack is information, so the longer things go on and the more is posted the better things can go.
Yet as this is true, scum know that information can be gained, and thus play the town. It would be far better to simply start off the game with a "____ is guilty! Thoughts?" than randoming for a few days, then lynching the newbie that tries to actually start the game (it happens, constantly).
Although, to be honest, there really is nothing we can do to stop it
Pretty much, but it seems like everyone is trying not to post in an attempt to not sound scummy at all. We should probably do something about that, but I don't know what can be done. At this rate we will be facing a Day 1 deadline and rush to lynch anyone we can.
While I usually disagree, some sort of mass claim seems like a good idea for a start. With no one posting their thoughts much it could immediately show irregularities.
I don't think we should resort to a mass claim yet, no deadline has been set and things are still proceeding, however slowly.
One of the worst situations for the town is a Day 1 deadline. There's a good chance that it will end in a Day 1 townie lynch and then an additional mafia kill.
I am normally very against it early on, but with no activity the scum has the chance to lurk and take advantage of the positive situation for themselves.
We've only been playing a week and some day ones have taken a month or more if I recall correctly.
This is a newb mini with only basic roles availible. Day 1 shouldn't last too long, and should be a couple of weeks. The later days will be longer as the town uses the Day 1 information, but a long day 1 typically favors the scum.
Without a lynch and a NK, the town has zero information availible, and deadlines lead to bad choices on Day 1.
I agree in principal to the idea of a mass claim as a last chance source of information if we are set a deadline and still have no clues.
The typical time to do a mass lynch is when the game goes stagnent, period. It's not based off of how much time has gone by, what day it is, etc. It's just a tool to give the town information that will eventually help while exposing scummy attitudes.
The way I would see this working is not through full claims, but through claiming town or scum and then claiming vanilla or not. We cannot determine scum directly this way, and the scum has a long target list from the town that is tricky for them to choose wisely from.
This is the rules of the claim:
I will post my affiliation and whether I am a power role or not, then I will list the remaining players and use the dice function to roll for the next player up to claim. No one is to claim in the meantime (though general discussion is encouraged). That person claims following the format and then uses the dice function to determine the next in line. Rinse. Repeat.
This way we can get some information without risking leaking too much information because the roles are not specific. However, it also is risky in the sense that the town needs to get lynches right.
I think it is worth the risk considering the lack of activity, and if I get 7 people to agree I will start the claiming process.
A better proposal would be for you to go first and then for us to die roll every time to see who will go next. Then people can't make fake claims based on who is yet to go.
I'm not saying I support this, but that seems like a workable way to put some scum under pressure.
Are you arguing for a full claim including name and abilities? What if it were just name? What if it were just abilities?
A better proposal would be for you to go first and then for us to die roll every time to see who will go next. Then people can't make fake claims based on who is yet to go.
That's what I meant to begin with. sorry if I was unclear.
Are you arguing for a full claim including name and abilities? What if it were just name? What if it were just abilities?
Name Claiming will quickly dissolve into a flavor war, and naming roles exactly would be problematic. I am saying we should claim whether we are town or not, then claim a yes or no to whether we have a power role or not.
For example:
I claim: townie, no
or
I claim: townie, yes
Nothing more for right now. There's no need to reveal more information than that.
I actually didn't hate the idea of mass claiming but mass claiming power-role only (with the laughable "townie" piece included) is either horribly misguided or someone with a little experience trying to direct the town in an awful direction.
I'm sorry, I fail to see any point in doing this mass claim.
To be honest, almost every claim will be vanilla town, and therefore useless,
or a power role and therefore giving scum ammo.
Although I do to some extent agree with the theory, it strikes me as needless.
Even if every claim is vanilla and it reveals nothing, then the town has done something that has not helped nor hurt. The only action being taken right now is nothing.
E_P, a day 1 lynch will almost always end up in a townie dying, regardless of dealine or not. Better we take it as it comes and try to analyse what people are saying in the hope that we get lucky and lynch a scum on day 1, or be more secure in day 2.
This pushing just strikes me as scummy, Vote: Emo_Pinata
Umm no. Even with a townie lynch (which takes 7 people agreeing to the lynch, it reveals how wrong the town was and lets them investigate the wagon and the posts and explanations from day 1. Going into day 2 with no lynch is always a terrible idea. I'm not advocating a random lynch target, I'm advocating the town to do something. I know how it can seem while you're new, but I'm opening the town to a discussion on something.
I actually didn't hate the idea of mass claiming but mass claiming power-role only (with the laughable "townie" piece included) is either horribly misguided or someone with a little experience trying to direct the town in an awful direction.
Not liking the way you're handling this, Emo.
The townie part is obvious (but should be tacked on, maybe someone will claim neutral), but just having several people claiming power requires the scum to either clam vanilla which makes them a safer lynch later or requires two lies to convince the town they are some power role.
I don't think a name claim this early is good, but naming whether there is a role or not can be a good idea. It is incredibly difficult for the scum to peg someone based on a yes/no to power roles, and it gives a chance for the scum to squirm at least a little.
You realise that this traps all the town power roles into revealing their existance for no net gain.
As it stands you have two possible outcomes.
1. everyone except the power role claims (townie, no) - this results in us losing both power roles one after the other (maybe night 1 & 2, maybe night 2 & 3 - depending on Doc protection)
That requires both power roles telling the truth and every scum risking a lot later down the road by claiming 'no' then backtracking under a wagon.
2. Someone townie lies - either a power role saying they aren't or a vanilla saying they are. This leads to an easy late game lynch for the scum when the lie is revealed. Not lynching all liars gives scum easy places to hide.
Not true, it confuses their night targets. They may be risking on a truthful townie and get a role blocker, and they may hit a vanilla townie while trying to hit someone that lied. This really isn't an issue.
The worst possible case is everyone claiming vanilla, but then it's a wash with several pages of discussion.
Either way we have no pressure on us at the moment so any benefit (and I can't see any) would be minimal.
FOS Emo_Pinata
Please explain why you think this would be a good idea.
Problem: a silent town is a town that loses. Day 1 is a crucial time for the town to encourage discussion and come to a consensus on someone to lynch. This provides plenty of discussion for day 2.
In a normal game there is probably some sort of vig or additional role to give additional information beyond what's available to the town on a mini (particularly a newb game).
I'm not saying a lot can be gained from this, I just think the worst outcome would be neutral with nothing gained and nothing lost. However, even this favors the town because of the discussion during the seemingly useless claiming.
I am neither against it, nor for it. If most of the other players here agree to go along with it, I'll do it. However, that said, it does seem fairly pointless, especially (as others have pointed out) when all we are really doing is giving away people who have abilities to the scum.
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Oh crap, I do hope kpaca is a townie, else wise I'm scared.
Anyway I do believe this whole everyone revealing yourself is not only pointless but distracting from the real issue at hand, since everyone will probably say vanilla townie.
Anyway I do believe this whole everyone revealing yourself is not only pointless but distracting from the real issue at hand, since everyone will probably say vanilla townie.
The real issue at hand is voting and trying to lynch a scum today. Your mass reveal is actually just a mass Chinese Fire Drill.
And everything you've done is trying to suppress me starting any discussion in the town, which as mentioned earlier was the thing I wanted to start more than anything.
I'm trying to suggest things that will lead to a lynch, not things that will keep the game from progressing further. As far as I'm concerned you're still scum.
Well honestly I was hoping someone else would ask about that, I figured seeing as how I did the same thing in NES mafia and you questioned it. I was trying to get reads on people after that post, put everyone in this game is going of in random directions right now. The vote however is honest and based on his second post, which reeks of scum to me, and his lurking.
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Guardman seems kind of right about what he said and Emo seems like he's overreacting, so I'm trying to figure out...
Emo, do you mean that Guardman is scum or that everyone is scum until you have evidence to the contrary? Or something else?
I meant that everyone was scum by what I said. I also mean what I said about this thread being dead for the first few days, which is extremely concerning to the town in my opinion.
That's also why I'm glad to have kpaca who, if nothing else, will engage someone just to do it.
I meant that everyone was scum by what I said. I also mean what I said about this thread being dead for the first few days, which is extremely concerning to the town in my opinion.
And the reason I phrased it a "you're still scum" is because of the fact that I seriously voted for him.
...and based on his second post, which reeks of scum to me, and his lurking.
Wow...I can see how that could be scummy. "Ace-lynch is fine, but on our timetable, after we've gotten a chance to lurk and disseminate misinformation/sow mistrust." You've convinced me half-way:
FOS: Sephiroth Owa (which is sorta sad, because he strikes me as innocent...a very devious scum?)
For the record, I feel that mass claim as suggested by E_P (with power claiming) feels sorta pointless. Generate discussion, yes, but is the tradeoff of highlighting the power roles to the scum worth it? Granted, perhaps E_P speaks with the voice of experience...but maybe he's just power-role fishing.
Not to mention that his comment of being happy that kpaca will "engage, just to do it" feels like reckless scumminess to me.
E_P is speaking not with the voice of experience, but with the voice of inexperience. A day one mass claim is a downright stupid idea, and the fact that he backs it up as "sparking discussion" smacks of uber scum to me.
As a matter of fact unvote: Vote Emo Pinata. Mostly because I'm pretty sure your scum and because I don't want to vote for Seph until he posts a little more, especially since I have a feeling Arimnaes will be replacing lurkers (as it should be).
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I feel that his seemingly confusing posting style is a good start for more serious discussion about the game. As to the random vote, I included myself intentionally to vote myself if it landed on me. Also, it does not show a lack of caring for fellow vassals because no one is even close to being lynched right now. Putting someone at L-8 or L-9 is meaningless.
Lack of concern for myself is most certainly not scummy. Look at the first few pages of Amastarian Mafia to see the self vote put inot action many times in the random phase.
Double positng is fine in mafia as long as you have a reason to. There is absolutely no editing allowed, and the common proceedure is to add a:
EBWODP: (Edit By Way Of Double Posting)
To add to a post.
Thank you. unvote, vote Guardman.
His erratic posting style and confusion is more scummy than anything else here. Take you for example, you are the now classic case of Taylor (aka Soron) in Star Trek. You are overanalysing posts because you're new and excited.
I "turned" on Guardman because his eagerness is probably not due to the game, otherwise it would be a manifestation similar to yours. Already, it has started real discussion in the game.
The additional pouncing on my post was what finally convinced me to it being more scummy than excited. He wants to move onward with votes that could lead somewhere, not just purely random voting.
And, as I said, it's the best lead on anyone I can see and a good place to start serious discussion.
Well considering most peaple think they are normal until told so, not really. Plus this is my first game of Mafia, so I don't really know what is odd or not.
Also I am keeping KeyofDestiny voted for right now, but it is tentative. But since I don't have any better leads I will leave him for now. But I do have several FoS:
Emo_Pinata: For wanting to stay in the random voting phase instead of moving onto the more serious voting. Seems scummy to me...
Cantripmancer: For being SoronTh, err... Taylor from Star Trek...
rumetzen: For not posting yet...
@Guardman: How is wanting to specifically move out of the random phase wanting to remain in it?
From these two quotes, especially the bolded purple parts, it sounds like that you want to keep with the random votes, and because of that you are voting for me because I want to move onto the more serious votes. Though by doing this you are moving onto the more serious parts. I think I may just be confused by your posting style.
Still FoS for time being...
Thanks for the clarification. I knew there was a protocol, but I didn't take the time to look for it.
You're welcome.
New and excited I may be... There seems a fine line in Day 1 to balance the inevitability of moving forward with the reserve of caution. I've read through a few Day 1's, but I still don't see where the breaking point occurs. I don't want to be reticent in my posting, nor do I want to commit a faux pas that could be misinterpreted.
Can you point to the "real discussion" that Guardman's confusion has led to? It almost feels like you're latching onto something just to move forward and calling it progress.
It still seems like the self-vote and randomization could be scummy, to me. Vote stands...for now.
@Toastboy: I think I read through that Day 1 that you reference where a mistake was made and it turned on you. I don't want to come off as overeager, but at the same time, Day 1 is horribly frustrating to me. I'm not a fan of games that are entirely dependent on luck, and I could potentially "lose" this one through "luck" if I'm lynched randomly on the first day.
@All: Hrm. I don't want to be Taylor...
Two mistakes, though I agree in principle with what you are saying.
Dying is not losing unless you are the SK or a survivor (which are somewhat atypical in newb games)...be less afraid. I was really afraid in Newb 24 and it did not help me. Dying can still help the town. Acting all scummy can't.
Ah. I forgot. Townies win, all townies (even dead townies) win. Mafia win, all mafia (even dead mafia) win. Correct? I guess best practice is, if you end up being the sacrificial pig at the end of the first day, to offer as much insight and calm deliberation to the Day 1 proceedings as possible to give your team the optimal chance of winning at the end.
(Selfishness kicks in and says that I'd rather be a live townie who ferrets out the scum and win in that fashion...but I can accept that every Mafia game will have a sacrificial pig for round one, who may have achieved that title through little more than randomness.)
Still got my eye on Emo_P (I keep wanting to call him El_Paca...what's up with that?), but his suspicion rating is dropping.
I for one have zero intention of dying for the greater good, I've always beleived the way to victory is not to die for your cause but to make the other guy die for his.
Well sure but I guess my point is that townies don't have to be afraid of dying, so they should be aggressive.
Fair enough, I assume there's a lot I need to learn about mafia.
I'm still voting you until Norwich finds a striker, btw
Thanks for answering my question.
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MAFIA STATS
Scum
Basic 17 (Afterlife) - lose
Basic 15 (Coffeehouse) - win
Duel Monsters - lose
Manipulator - lose
Town
Anita Blake - lose
Basic 17 (Demonata) - lose
Canada - ongoing
Ongoing
Basic 24
Actually it is quite simple what is going on here if you don't think the peaple posting here so far have a strategy. Instead everyone is just grasping straws at the moment trying to find something about anyone that could point to them as scum.
As for why peaple are voting for me, well actually only one person so far, but anyways it has to do with my posting style, that is apparently odd for a mafia game.
I hope I answered your question.
Just for safety's sake.
Yet as this is true, scum know that information can be gained, and thus play the town. It would be far better to simply start off the game with a "____ is guilty! Thoughts?" than randoming for a few days, then lynching the newbie that tries to actually start the game (it happens, constantly).
Although, to be honest, there really is nothing we can do to stop it
That is exactly what we are supposed to be doing, since that is all we can do right now other than flail...
Pretty much, but it seems like everyone is trying not to post in an attempt to not sound scummy at all. We should probably do something about that, but I don't know what can be done. At this rate we will be facing a Day 1 deadline and rush to lynch anyone we can.
While I usually disagree, some sort of mass claim seems like a good idea for a start. With no one posting their thoughts much it could immediately show irregularities.
How would you set this up, Emo? I'm assuming you'd be willing to go first and then randomize everyone else...
One of the worst situations for the town is a Day 1 deadline. There's a good chance that it will end in a Day 1 townie lynch and then an additional mafia kill.
I am normally very against it early on, but with no activity the scum has the chance to lurk and take advantage of the positive situation for themselves.
This is a newb mini with only basic roles availible. Day 1 shouldn't last too long, and should be a couple of weeks. The later days will be longer as the town uses the Day 1 information, but a long day 1 typically favors the scum.
Without a lynch and a NK, the town has zero information availible, and deadlines lead to bad choices on Day 1.
The typical time to do a mass lynch is when the game goes stagnent, period. It's not based off of how much time has gone by, what day it is, etc. It's just a tool to give the town information that will eventually help while exposing scummy attitudes.
The way I would see this working is not through full claims, but through claiming town or scum and then claiming vanilla or not. We cannot determine scum directly this way, and the scum has a long target list from the town that is tricky for them to choose wisely from.
This is the rules of the claim:
I will post my affiliation and whether I am a power role or not, then I will list the remaining players and use the dice function to roll for the next player up to claim. No one is to claim in the meantime (though general discussion is encouraged). That person claims following the format and then uses the dice function to determine the next in line. Rinse. Repeat.
Here's the format:
This way we can get some information without risking leaking too much information because the roles are not specific. However, it also is risky in the sense that the town needs to get lynches right.
I think it is worth the risk considering the lack of activity, and if I get 7 people to agree I will start the claiming process.
So, there's the mass claim proposal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emo_Pinata
I claim: <insert claim>
1. Timlock Smash
2. Ace
3. KeyofDestiny
4. lostandthedamned
5. Sephiroth Owa
6. Guardman
7. Cantripmancer
X. Emo_Pinata
8. Toastboy
9. Lampdwellr
10. Callaway
11. rumetzen
Dice 1 roll on a 11-sided dice: 8
Fixed
I'm not saying I support this, but that seems like a workable way to put some scum under pressure.
Are you arguing for a full claim including name and abilities? What if it were just name? What if it were just abilities?
That's what I meant to begin with. sorry if I was unclear.
Name Claiming will quickly dissolve into a flavor war, and naming roles exactly would be problematic. I am saying we should claim whether we are town or not, then claim a yes or no to whether we have a power role or not.
For example:
I claim: townie, no
or
I claim: townie, yes
Nothing more for right now. There's no need to reveal more information than that.
Not liking the way you're handling this, Emo.
Even if every claim is vanilla and it reveals nothing, then the town has done something that has not helped nor hurt. The only action being taken right now is nothing.
Umm no. Even with a townie lynch (which takes 7 people agreeing to the lynch, it reveals how wrong the town was and lets them investigate the wagon and the posts and explanations from day 1. Going into day 2 with no lynch is always a terrible idea. I'm not advocating a random lynch target, I'm advocating the town to do something. I know how it can seem while you're new, but I'm opening the town to a discussion on something.
The townie part is obvious (but should be tacked on, maybe someone will claim neutral), but just having several people claiming power requires the scum to either clam vanilla which makes them a safer lynch later or requires two lies to convince the town they are some power role.
I don't think a name claim this early is good, but naming whether there is a role or not can be a good idea. It is incredibly difficult for the scum to peg someone based on a yes/no to power roles, and it gives a chance for the scum to squirm at least a little.
That requires both power roles telling the truth and every scum risking a lot later down the road by claiming 'no' then backtracking under a wagon.
Not true, it confuses their night targets. They may be risking on a truthful townie and get a role blocker, and they may hit a vanilla townie while trying to hit someone that lied. This really isn't an issue.
The worst possible case is everyone claiming vanilla, but then it's a wash with several pages of discussion.
Problem: a silent town is a town that loses. Day 1 is a crucial time for the town to encourage discussion and come to a consensus on someone to lynch. This provides plenty of discussion for day 2.
In a normal game there is probably some sort of vig or additional role to give additional information beyond what's available to the town on a mini (particularly a newb game).
I'm not saying a lot can be gained from this, I just think the worst outcome would be neutral with nothing gained and nothing lost. However, even this favors the town because of the discussion during the seemingly useless claiming.
How is this logical? If the real power roles lie vanilla, how are they any different from scum lying vanilla?
You raise points which really have zero effect on the game at this point. You cite a requirement of discussion - let's initiate some then.
I want everyone to post whether they agree with a mass claim or not. Everyone.
Update: kpaca is replacing rumetzen.
Signature from Nakamura and Heroes of the Planes Studios.
MAFIA STATS
Scum
Basic 17 (Afterlife) - lose
Basic 15 (Coffeehouse) - win
Duel Monsters - lose
Manipulator - lose
Town
Anita Blake - lose
Basic 17 (Demonata) - lose
Canada - ongoing
Ongoing
Basic 24
Cower in fear Ace, Toast, EP, etc. For I am here.
Real suspicions/posts to come after my reread.
Vote: Sephiroth Owa
FOS: Emo Pinata
good day.
Anyway I do believe this whole everyone revealing yourself is not only pointless but distracting from the real issue at hand, since everyone will probably say vanilla townie.
Therefore, Unvote...
Vote: Emo_Pinata
FoS: Ace
With how dead the game has been, I for one am glad to have your endless one liners.
... what is the real issue at hand?
Unvote
Vote : Emo_Pinata
There's no love for Emo right now so I get that. Why Seph? I'm honestly curious.
And everything you've done is trying to suppress me starting any discussion in the town, which as mentioned earlier was the thing I wanted to start more than anything.
I'm trying to suggest things that will lead to a lynch, not things that will keep the game from progressing further. As far as I'm concerned you're still scum.
Guardman seems kind of right about what he said and Emo seems like he's overreacting, so I'm trying to figure out...
Emo, do you mean that Guardman is scum or that everyone is scum until you have evidence to the contrary? Or something else?
I meant that everyone was scum by what I said. I also mean what I said about this thread being dead for the first few days, which is extremely concerning to the town in my opinion.
That's also why I'm glad to have kpaca who, if nothing else, will engage someone just to do it.
Speaking of which...
He's not lurking horribly, but what do you mean in saying his second post reeks of scum?
And the reason I phrased it a "you're still scum" is because of the fact that I seriously voted for him.
FOS: Sephiroth Owa (which is sorta sad, because he strikes me as innocent...a very devious scum?)
For the record, I feel that mass claim as suggested by E_P (with power claiming) feels sorta pointless. Generate discussion, yes, but is the tradeoff of highlighting the power roles to the scum worth it? Granted, perhaps E_P speaks with the voice of experience...but maybe he's just power-role fishing.
Not to mention that his comment of being happy that kpaca will "engage, just to do it" feels like reckless scumminess to me.
Vote for E_P stands. Still seems scummy.
As a matter of fact unvote: Vote Emo Pinata. Mostly because I'm pretty sure your scum and because I don't want to vote for Seph until he posts a little more, especially since I have a feeling Arimnaes will be replacing lurkers (as it should be).
I count L-2. One it's official I'll claim.
@Emo_Pinata: I am trying to spark serious discussion, not pointless discussion, which is all you've really been doing so far.