Honestly, that post is the nail in the coffin. CC doesn't make posts like that as town, no matter how many people agree with him/don't. I've seen him argue his own case fervently when he was arguing with a single person, and when the masses were opposed to
Besides, just because I'm the most vocal/the only one voting for you right this second doesn't mean that other people don't agree with me. But it's alright, I suspect we'll see enough people come forth against you now.
I thought there might be an off-chance that some desperate/in trouble scum would try to claim the 'rez' on me and I could bust them.
Shenanigans. How likely do you seriously think it is for someone to claim an ability that they don't have, and that can obviously be proven that they don't have? This just sounds like BS reasoning to me.
I don't think you should be so quick to give up suspicion on GR. I'm still of the opinion that he is scum. Moreso after current events. I'm just giving him alot of rope to hang himself with.
LOL. I love how you feel the need to reaffirm this stance every 3 pages or so.
@Goat - Not sure what you mean by my approach to Wuffles being "off". I think "under the radar" is a mischaracterization of my play yesterday, though I did pull back a bit at times (as I will today and tomorrow etcetera until the ending of my days). Sorry you don't like how I approached Sand, but I had already decided I wanted a claim from Sand yesterday, and nothing that he said made me think I shouldn't get one. The end result is he's likely town and not lynched, which is the second best result from a wagon in my opinion. No regrets from me.
Fair enough. I want to reread day 1 at some point anyway and get a clearer look at everything.
@Cyan: Why does a fantasy based story mean that roleblocks of the prostitution nature are out on storyline grounds? That makes no sense. Fantasy novels generally have copious amounts of storyline along these lines.
Also, now that CC has responded I will say this: CC claiming a roleblock that doesn't exist is paramount to suicide as scum. Especially on day 2. It's as simple as this: If this is a legitimate roleblock, we will see it again, verifying that CC is at least telling the truth regarding the existance of the roleblock. If we don't see it again, then we can start to question the validity of CC's claim. Personally, I highly doubt CC was lying about at least the existance of the roleblocker. Granted, I wouldn't put it past him to claim getting roleblocked when he actually is the roleblocker, or some other shenanigans along those lines, but I highly doubt he's straight up lying about this RB.
Also, I will be highly shocked if JY is scum. Scum don't go jumping out of their seats to sneak in a vanilla claim early on in the game, especially when it can easily backfire in their face (Wuffles lynched, is town, we turn to JY/JQL next). Vanilla townies are easy fodder for vig shots, lynches, etc. because they are expendable.
Besides, just because I'm the most vocal/the only one voting for you right this second doesn't mean that other people don't agree with me. But it's alright, I suspect we'll see enough people come forth against you now.
Shenanigans. How likely do you seriously think it is for someone to claim an ability that they don't have, and that can obviously be proven that they don't have? This just sounds like BS reasoning to me.
People make mistakes. Desperate scum make lots of mistakes.
LOL. I love how you feel the need to reaffirm this stance every 3 pages or so.
I can't help it. The overall feel of your posts comes across to me as highly scummy, even though there are some individual posts by you(such as this one) that come across as pro-town.
@Cyan: Why does a fantasy based story mean that roleblocks of the prostitution nature are out on storyline grounds? That makes no sense. Fantasy novels generally have copious amounts of storyline along these lines.
It is not(well not just) a 'fantasy' based game. Do you see any knights/dragons/swords/kings? No. It is a game about *magic*, and nothing else. A bunch of wizards locked in a tower. Wizards. Nobody else. Everyone in the game is a Wizard. All of the Vanilla claims even. Hell, the SK had a *false claim* that was a Wizard. The aspect of the game that *makes it a Specialty game in the first place*(Burnouts) is a magical ability. This is a game about magic, magic, and more magic. It is simply not going to have a roleblock that is carried out via non-magical means, especially when there is another RB that *IS* carried out via magical means.
Also, now that CC has responded I will say this: CC claiming a roleblock that doesn't exist is paramount to suicide as scum. Especially on day 2. It's as simple as this: If this is a legitimate roleblock, we will see it again, verifying that CC is at least telling the truth regarding the existance of the roleblock. If we don't see it again, then we can start to question the validity of CC's claim. Personally, I highly doubt CC was lying about at least the existance of the roleblocker. Granted, I wouldn't put it past him to claim getting roleblocked when he actually is the roleblocker, or some other shenanigans along those lines, but I highly doubt he's straight up lying about this RB.
No. This is not being put off. Not only does too much of this simply not add up, but CC's behavior yesterday was scummy enough that he was going to get looked at today anyway(which he undoubtedly figured was a possibility, hence his decision to randomly come forth and claimed being RBed in the first place). He is scum, and he is not getting away with it.
Also, I will be highly shocked if JY is scum. Scum don't go jumping out of their seats to sneak in a vanilla claim early on in the game, especially when it can easily backfire in their face (Wuffles lynched, is town, we turn to JY/JQL next). Vanilla townies are easy fodder for vig shots, lynches, etc. because they are expendable.
To put this as plainly as possible..you are wrong. Your idea of how scum will/should play is simply incorrect. The Wuffles vs. jqlgirl situation was absolutely perfect for a crafty scum. Wuffles was guaranteed to get lynched, and there was a good chance of jqlgirl getting lynched next. Are you honestly telling me that, if they both got lynched and came up town, we were going to lynch another Vanilla Town? There is *no way* that would happen. An SK typically isn't going to Vig a Vanilla claim(my guess is that Dagger thought jqlgirl was scum), and if things went down the way JY was no doubt assuming they would, it would be ages before we considered vigging him. Especially if we were already down 2 lynches.
@CC: Keep it up. It's your own grave that you're digging.
It is not(well not just) a 'fantasy' based game. Do you see any knights/dragons/swords/kings? No. It is a game about *magic*, and nothing else. A bunch of wizards locked in a tower. Wizards. Nobody else. Everyone in the game is a Wizard. All of the Vanilla claims even. Hell, the SK had a *false claim* that was a Wizard. The aspect of the game that *makes it a Specialty game in the first place*(Burnouts) is a magical ability. This is a game about magic, magic, and more magic. It is simply not going to have a roleblock that is carried out via non-magical means, especially when there is another RB that *IS* carried out via magical means.
It is not(well not just) a 'fantasy' based game. Do you see any knights/dragons/swords/kings? No. It is a game about *magic*, and nothing else. A bunch of wizards locked in a tower. Wizards. Nobody else. Everyone in the game is a Wizard. All of the Vanilla claims even. Hell, the SK had a *false claim* that was a Wizard. The aspect of the game that *makes it a Specialty game in the first place*(Burnouts) is a magical ability. This is a game about magic, magic, and more magic. It is simply not going to have a roleblock that is carried out via non-magical means, especially when there is another RB that *IS* carried out via magical means.
Then could you please explain to me with your vast expanse of obvious knowledge why we have a non magic night kill. The reason seems to be elluding me.
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Then could you please explain to me with your vast expanse of obvious knowledge why we have a non magic night kill. The reason seems to be elluding me.
Then could you please explain to me with your vast expanse of obvious knowledge why we have a non magic night kill. The reason seems to be elluding me.
The mafia NK is often an exception. It typically has no flavor(or specifically, it's flavor doesn't vary based on whom is performing it), it can be carried out by Vanillas, etc. I've seen games where RBing someone performing the mafia NK doesn't stop the kill from happening(though to be fair, this is not typically the case). I've seen games where a mafioso can perform their own normal ability AND the mafia kill. The Mafia NK is always just 'a special team ability'. It is not relevant in this argument.
I would say that this is even evidenced in this game, where the SK kill was performed by magical means..but the mafia kill was not. There is no real reason to make this distinction, except that it is just how the mafia kill goes.
It just doesn't make sense for players in this game to have abilities that are carried out via non-magical means. It undermines the overall theme of the game itself.
You can also spend more time reading CC's posts this game. I mean, he has 42 posts, and like 5(hyperbole, but barely) of them have any actual relevant game content to them; the rest are just spam. He's just been active lurking. It strikes me as ironic that everyone jumped all over JY for this, but no one looked twice at CC doing it.
Maybe you had a run in with CropCircles last night?
Are you accusing me having a crotch rot?
He doubts a fairly obvious conclusion by Pale Mage and gives us yet another line of irrelevant filler, like most of his posts this game.
Then there's this (1000):
Quote from CropCircles »
Alright, I think I'm gonna need to claim a couple of things.
First of all, I have role based info that not all abilities are Magic based. Mafia kill being done with a dagger, clearly not magic, clearly this means nothing for Jodo. (I will add that I'm not particularly suspicious of Jodo, though)
On that note, one of those muggle-type abilities was used on me last night. Ironically, I got laid, which was totally awesome, up until the part that it was all just flavor for a roleblock.
So thanks, skank, when I find you, you're dead.
In other news: SSB is most certainly town, DV is coming off town, Cyan's gambit with his burnout makes him pretty likely to be town...Need less town vibes and more scum vibes.
Had to go into work at 4am this morning, so I'm pretty beat right now. Hopefully I'll have some time for some good ol fasioned analysis tomorrow morning/evening.
He makes a totally unprovoked claim to have role-based info that some abilities are non-magic, but then doesn't share any of it. He cites the dagger used by the mafia NK as evidence (already addressed satisfactorily by Cyan) and the roleblock used on him, which I outright don't believe. This game is about a magic tower in a nation of wizards. There's just no reason why there would be some random tart sleeping with people as flavor for an RB. And there's nothing in that post to suggest he actually has this "role-based info."
His posts are classic scum: filler, irrelevant comments, the occasional baseless suspicion so he can look like he's participating, and promises for future content or analysis.
Cyan attacks him, and he completely ignores half of the points against him, labels it "smearing," and then states he's "not going to waste any more breath" defending himself. He's a liar, he's an active lurker, we know what to do with both of those.
I'm debating whether or not to let CC respond to your post first. At any rate, I think your case is poor, and you use some pretty big exaggerations and careless reasoning to support your vote. I find exaggerating points to make a vote seem more legit to be a pretty huge scumtell. I find your careless reasoning to suggest a lack of true suspicion and more of a "here is a case I hastily threw together to support my bandwagon vote."
Quote from DV »
Fos Goat This is dumb, back it up.
I wanted to see how he and others reacted to the bare vote. Also see above, re: letting CC answer first.
Except the part where CC said he's not going to answer any of my posts.
As far as Zindabad's post, I'm inclined to agree with you somewhat, except that I don't think it precludes CC from being scum. Additionally, JY made effectively the same post in regard to the Wuffles' wagon(the one where he says stupid things like 'On a scale of 1-10 I think it's BIG', etc), and you didn't have a problem with it. Not only that, but even today when people specifically mentioned it, you still have tried to defend JY.
This inconsistency seems strange to me, maybe you can explain it.
@Chris: I don't really get what you're trying to say. Are you asserting that DV is lying about having been RBed?
*Disagreement*
So, to lie blatantly is not facepalm-worthy(or even more. Lynch all liars is a very solid strategy one(i.e. me) would think. But as he makes me more angry with every one of his "I am God, I am above you insects"-attitude-posts I will drop any (further) issues and ignore his existence.)?
Doing a reread of CC now...you may be right about about a few things(for example I also don't think non-magical abilities exist), but: What does he gain when he lies about a role-block?
Please, stop whining. I am not going to give you information on my role.
Except the part where CC said he's not going to answer any of my posts.
Doesn't mean he won't respond to Zindabad's. At any rate, I've given my reasons for finding Zindabad's vote suspicious, all I have to do is go back through and actually provide the evidence for it, which I will do after CC either responds, or declines to respond it it.
Additionally, JY made effectively the same post in regard to the Wuffles' wagon(the one where he says stupid things like 'On a scale of 1-10 I think it's BIG', etc), and you didn't have a problem with it. Not only that, but even today when people specifically mentioned it, you still have tried to defend JY.
This inconsistency seems strange to me, maybe you can explain it.
It's not really an inconsistency. I don't recall the specific post you're talking about (post number?) but for the sake of argument I'll assume that post was equally as scummy as the one zindabad made. The difference here is that JY made one scummy post amidst many town tells, whereas Zindabad made a scummy post amidst many other scum tells. I think Zindabad has been consistently scummy, and here's another scummy post to add to the count, whereas I think JY's actions suggest he is town, and one scummy post doesn't necessarily counteract that read.
@GR: I went back and read Zindabad's other posts, and I'm forced to disagree with you. Strongly. I think that the rest of his posts, especially when read from a 'looking back' perspective, are *screamingly* pro-town.
Something about his last post bothers me, but, I'm willing to set it aside for now, because I cannot see him being scum when I read the rest of his posts. I think that you should let this go, for the time being at least.
Ultimately, I still think that CC is where we should be looking right now.
Having two different RB's one magical and one non-magical is a little strange but I'm not sure if it is completely out of the question. CC says he has role-based info that there are physical actions. Right after the claim he posts his physical RB. He obviously knows that a physical action is not normal (seeing as how felt the need to say that he knows that there are physical actions) and I would think that he wouldn't forget that a moment later when faking his RB. So I think that the physical RB is likely.
I had a unique opportunity to use my burnout and did so. Giving up all of the info immediately upon coming back felt pointless; I thought there might be an off-chance that some desperate/in trouble scum would try to claim the 'rez' on me and I could bust them.
This sounds like you used your burnout on a whim, not with the "who rezzed me" gambit in mind. Can you explain this?
Reading a couple of things before weighing in this current mess too much. I will say that two roleblockers is entirely possible, and physical abilities seem not only possible but likely. I doubt very much that DV is lying about being roleblocked, and I agree with Goat that CC is probably not lying about the physical roleblock existing.
Except the part where he 'claimed' his role-based info about non-magical actions in the same post where he 'informed' us that he was RBed in this fashion.
Oh, and I like the part where he automatically assumes that he was blocked by a scum RB.
EBWODP: Blah, meant to hit Preview Post, not Submit Reply.
I assume that abilities that targeted my double would fail. Or they would succeed...doesn't really make a difference, it's just a % chance at being untargetable.
And I was originally planning to just confess that I'd faked the daykill, to the point that I had the post written up and previewed. Then it occurred to me that I could use my ability in the manner in which I did, instead. But my plan, when I submitted my ability to DYH(as evidenced by the fact that the scene where I 'died' was an 'attempted daykill, at my request), didn't really change as time progressed.
I guess I'm not going to get you guys to see reality about this RB nonsense, and we'll have to wait until tomorrow comes. Whatever. Sometimes I hate this game. Unvote, Vote JodoYodo
The mafia NK is often an exception. It typically has no flavor(or specifically, it's flavor doesn't vary based on whom is performing it), it can be carried out by Vanillas, etc. I've seen games where RBing someone performing the mafia NK doesn't stop the kill from happening(though to be fair, this is not typically the case). I've seen games where a mafioso can perform their own normal ability AND the mafia kill. The Mafia NK is always just 'a special team ability'. It is not relevant in this argument.
I would say that this is even evidenced in this game, where the SK kill was performed by magical means..but the mafia kill was not. There is no real reason to make this distinction, except that it is just how the mafia kill goes.
It just doesn't make sense for players in this game to have abilities that are carried out via non-magical means. It undermines the overall theme of the game itself.
For the purpose of game mechanics, the Mafia Nightkill is, as you say, usually an exception to various standards.
From a flavor prespective, which is what the all-abilities-must-be-magic-because-that's-the-theme-of-the-game arguement is, it stands to reason that a non-magic ability, be it the nightkill or not, proves that some people are doing things that aren't spells, flavorwise. Basing a lynch on any other idea is making assumptions about the set-up in ways you can't possibly know.
But something I thought about while I was at work: there's really no reason that the skank-block has to be void of magic use.
My role pm specifically states a difference between the magic and the non-magic, but there's no reason that the non-magic part has to be anything more than the Mafia Nightkill, as Cyan seems to believe. As Cyan pointed out, the Mafia Nightkill is often an exception, so the "non-magic" part could just be the flavor for the difference in the game mechanics. It actually makes a lot of sense. Hypothetical example: DYH wants to make a roleblocker that doesn't block mafia kills - so he makes it only block magic. Or an Ascetic whose flavor is "Magic does not work on you."
So when I was skank-blocked, I assumed it was as standard as it seems, because hell, my role pm told me there would be non-magic somewhere around here, but that doesn't mean that's what it was. I could imagine a few magic based flavors for that. An Illusionist that blocks people by distracting them with fantasies. A shapeshifter who changes forms. A simple hypnotising love spell.
Whether or not you believe every ability is magic is, actually, still irrelevant.
The point is, all of this is just gaming the mod on what we think he would or would not put in the game. FYI, mods often put things in games just to burn townies who make these kinds of arguements. Go back and read LoTR Mafia, the whole game set the precedent for why trying to guess what the set-up looks like, when you can't possibly know, is bad play.
As for the behavioural part of my case: do read back in my posts. They are mostly one liners.
Ever since my triumphant return to MTGS Mafia last year, I have mostly been posting from my phone. I recieved a promotion at work a couple years back, which is why I quit after L5R. Didn't have time. I returned when I got my Blackberry, and have been using it ever since.
There is absolutely a precedant for CC's infamous one liners - I was like that in Holywood 2, where I was town. I was like that in Doomsday where I was Mafia. I was like that in Harry Potter where I was the Serial killer. It is simply not indicative of alignment.
Cyan says I've been avoiding issues, but I actually have been stating my opinions. I pushed Wuffles before Cyan's fake kill. I questioned JqlGirl and inevitably labeled her town. I took a stance and explained my reasoning when Cyan was running up Goat. I probbed Vamp. Hell, I'll post a summary for you.
49: Random Vote
118: Agreeing with Cyan that the arguements being made at the time were baseless.
120: Pure Joke
175: After Cyan and Goat go a few rounds, I chime in that I find Cyan's logic faulty, because it is based on the premise that Goat was defending himself, when he was clearly not.
203: Someone accused me on the grounds that I was faking a posting restriction, so I ask for clarification.
251: I weigh in on JqlGirl saying that her post slightly tipped my scumdar, but for different reasons then what others were saying.
252: EBWODP for spelling error.
263: Probing JqlGirl
306: Pure Joke
346: I state my belief that JqlGirl is town, and echo for a response from Jodo
365: Agree with Cyan RE Wuffles, point out a flaw in Wuffles response, and susequently vote.
374: Probe at SSB for making baseless accusations, and not backing up with a vote.
447: Call out Eco for saying he would move his vote if Wuff got close to claim range, when Wuff was close and Eco wasn't voting.
449: Pointing out a flaw in kpaca's attack and asking explination
467: Arguing with Wuffles
469: Pure Joke
483: Call out Wuffles on stalling
489: Pure joke
492: Someone took my joke seriously, so I clarified that it was a joke.
514; Wuffles claims, I support the Daykill
517: Ask Goat to clarify on "strong reasons" to think that Wuffles is town
521: More questioning of Goat
556: State my misgivings about Cyan being unwilling to daykill
618: Probe Vampyr, express my opinion that Cyan's daykill could be a gambit
624: State my realization that the cyan gambitting would be pretty convoluted (dead wrong there :p)
670: Questioning Vamp
710: Satisfied with vamp, state reasons why
712: probe WoD
794: Placeholder post
And then the day ended.
I certainly don't expect anyone to get a real feel for my alignment based on that, but i posted to point out that the vast majority of my posts have a purpose. I've been probbing various people, stated suspicions, and my post count and content levels are no lower then any other game I've played in.
Matter of fact, go check out Doomsday, where I was scum, and had a whole 71 posts after being alive 4 whole days. I had nearly 40 in this game after day 1, meaning at this rate, I'll be at twice what I was in that game. That game I was "active lurking." If anything, my post count here is a point in my favor.
Quote from zin »
He makes a totally unprovoked claim to have role-based info that some abilities are non-magic, but then doesn't share any of it.
1. It was not unprovoked. There was discussion going on about an ability that detects magic. It was completely relevant to the discussion.
2."Role based" means that I would have to claim my role to share the info. It is worth it to bring up something relevant to the discussion, but not at the expense of exposing my role.
Quote from zin »
He cites the dagger used by the mafia NK as evidence (already addressed satisfactorily by Cyan) and the roleblock used on him, which I outright don't believe. This game is about a magic tower in a nation of wizards. There's just no reason why there would be some random tart sleeping with people as flavor for an RB. And there's nothing in that post to suggest he actually has this "role-based info."
You completely missed the point.
I was saying that SSB's ability detects magic, but the mafia nightkill was by a dagger(not inherently magical), and I have role based info that there are non-magic abilities, so it clearly means that JY still could have done the Mafia Nightkill, in spite of SSB claiming that he did not use magic.
I did not try to present the dagger and the roleblock as evidence that there were non-magic abilities, the roleblock was irrelevant to that part of the post.
Quote from zindabad »
His posts are classic scum: filler, irrelevant comments, the occasional baseless suspicion so he can look like he's participating, and promises for future content or analysis.
My posts are classic CC. I always probe people this way, I always prefer shorter posts to long drawn out PBPAs.
Quote from zin »
Cyan attacks him, and he completely ignores half of the points against him, labels it "smearing," and then states he's "not going to waste any more breath" defending himself.
At the time, Cyan was the only one voting me. I didn't see the point in spending hours going back and forth just to derail the game.
Quote from zindabad »
He's a liar, he's an active lurker, we know what to do with both of those.
I'm not lying, you are just straight wrong about that, and I'm not lurking in any way that's different from how I've played as town in other games.
Lol. Come on, honestly. Are we really supposed to believe that the Mod told you that there are physical abilities in the game, but that you don't actually have one? And now you are saying that hey, maybe both RBs are magical afterall? So what physical abilities are there, then? You can't even keep your story straight throughout one post!
Interesting that you say that you probed jqlgirl(who you just asked a couple of innocent questions) and that you probed vampyr(who you tried to run up with one of the weakest votes I have ever seen). Your actions towards Vampyr are a huge point against you.
That post absolutely reeks of insincerity.
I never should have unvoted, and I won't be doing so again. Unvote, Vote CropCircles
Lol. Come on, honestly. Are we really supposed to believe that the Mod told you that there are physical abilities in the game, but that you don't actually have one?
Yeah, yeah he did.
My ability interacts differantly with Magic then it does with Physical.
Yes, DYH told me that.
Why is that hard to believe?
Quote from Cyan »
And now you are saying that hey, maybe both RBs are magical afterall?
I'm saying that if you're going to argue flavor, it makes sense. My point is that either way you look at it, you're arguement is baseless.
Quote from Cyan »
So what physical abilities are there, then? You can't even keep your story straight throughout one post!
The Mafia Nightkill. It would make sense for my ability to interact differantly with that then with other abilities.
Where did I contradict myself?
Quote from Cyan »
Interesting that you say that you probed jqlgirl(who you just asked a couple of innocent questions) and that you probed vampyr(who you tried to run up with one of the weakest votes I have ever seen). Your actions towards Vampyr are a huge point against you.
I asked Jql a couple of "innocent questions" and was able to correctly peg her as town. For arguing against the idea that I haven't had content that is a legitimate point.
As for Vamp, I've seen scum use the arguement he used, I've attacked scum for it before. I voted for something that I legitimately believe is scummy, awaited a response, and was satisfied. I didn't try to run him up. I was probbing.
Man Cyan really is all over the place here. I'm interested in Zindabad and Archmage_Eternal, more A_E though since he reminds me of kpaca in Star Trek EU Mafia.
Man Cyan really is all over the place here. I'm interested in Zindabad and Archmage_Eternal, more A_E though since he reminds me of kpaca in Star Trek EU Mafia.
Glad to see your interested in me. But not familiar with Star Trek Mafia, sorry.
@CC: So..wait. You have some ability that interacts differently with theoretical Physical and Magical abilities.and the Mod TOLD YOU so? And now you're speculating that the magical RB can only block magical abilities, and the physical RB only blocks physical abilities? And of course, it's just a huge coincidence that you just so happen to have a physical ability that got blocked. Yeah. Very believeable.
It's also a fascinating story, since SSB's ability detects magic, and would apparently fail entirely against Physical abilities, *including his Burnout*, but he was never told anything about this.
Honestly, there is no way, whatsoever, that CC's claim holds up. It is consistently getting worse.
@PM: That goes to what I was saying in the first place. CC very obviously wanted us to assume that he was the target of a*scum* action when he was RBed. He didn't leave any possibility that the person targetting him might have been town. This is why I feel that DV effectively counterclaimed him to begin with. That post also comes across as ridiculously insincere.
CC is scum. It is painful to me that you guys can't realize this.
It's a slight itch, because it isn't as conclusive as Cyan paints it.
CC claims the skank-block, and concludes with the phrase "So, thanks skank, when I find you, you're dead :argh:". That can be taken as proposing the roleblocker is scum-aligned. Problem is, that doesn't really indicate a scum mindset, especially since there are other reasons to post that.
To put it bluntly, the fact that he just came out claiming that he was RBed doesn't cross me as particularly pro-town. Especially since he provided the flavor. If he's town, and suspects that a scum RBed him(as that post indicated), I find it completely and utterly unlikely that he's just going to dump all of that info into the thread. CC is a big fan of trapping people, and he absolutely had the opportunity to do so(if you assume he's town)..instead he has now made it more difficult for us to discren between the two RBs.
I'm not saying that his post indicates a scum mindset if you believe his post, I'm saying that, most likely, all of this physical bit is completely fabricated.
There is alot to why I think CC is scum, sometimes I just have trouble explaining what I feel should be obvious.
@CC: So..wait. You have some ability that interacts differently with theoretical Physical and Magical abilities.and the Mod TOLD YOU so? And now you're speculating that the magical RB can only block magical abilities, and the physical RB only blocks physical abilities? And of course, it's just a huge coincidence that you just so happen to have a physical ability that got blocked. Yeah. Very believeable.
I didn't see him speculating so much as posing a hypothetical for example.
PPE: Why isn't it pro-town to claim being roleblocked? That's pro-town to me if it isn't public knowledge there's a roleblocker.
If there's more to why you think CC is scum, then slow down and get your thoughts together.
It's not that easy to explain, because you don't have extensive play history with him. Frustratingly, no one in this game does, except for me.
I fail to see a difference between 'speculating' and 'posing a hypothetical for example'.
And the way he presented that he was RBed is not pro-town. Pro-town would have been saying 'hey I was RBed'. And that's it. No inherent bias there. No nonsense referring to the RB as a skank that he wants dead. Plus that puts the burden of explaining how the RB works on the RB, instead of CC having laid it all out for them. This is why I don't believe that said RB actually happened.
That's what the two quotes were for...you can only be roleblocked if you have a power role of some sort.
(Leaving out his random accusations of me fishing him. Which is is also lying imo.)
Firstly, I think DV misunderstands what the word Power Role means, that is a role that has an ability.
Secondly, it is possible to be roleblocked without an ability, depending on how the mod handles roleblocking. In another game I was vanilla and still got a "congratulations you've been roleblocked " PM.
Thirdly, we don't know whether or not these "magical ropes" he refers to were actual standard roleblocking or like an "isolate" ability which both blocks and protects a player.
@CC: So..wait. You have some ability that interacts differently with theoretical Physical and Magical abilities.and the Mod TOLD YOU so?
Yeah.
Quote from Cyan »
And now you're speculating that the magical RB can only block magical abilities, and the physical RB only blocks physical abilities?
The "hypothetical example" was to show how a game designer could use such a distinction between magical and non-magical as a way to distinguish between the Mafia Nightkill and other abilities. I have no reason to believe that that's actually how either of the roleblocks here work, and I never said I did.
Quote from Cyan »
And of course, it's just a huge coincidence that you just so happen to have a physical ability that got blocked. Yeah. Very believeable.
I never said I had a physical ability.
You can't keep my posts straight. That's why you're confused.
Quote from Cyan »
It's also a fascinating story, since SSB's ability detects magic, and would apparently fail entirely against Physical abilities, *including his Burnout*, but he was never told anything about this.
No, he was told that he interacts with Magic, and how. He wasn't told about the physical part because his ability doesn't interact with physical.
My ability interacts with both, hence I was told about both.
Quote from Cyan »
Honestly, there is no way, whatsoever, that CC's claim holds up. It is consistently getting worse.
You clearly have no grasp on what I'm even saying.
Quote from Cyan »
@PM: That goes to what I was saying in the first place. CC very obviously wanted us to assume that he was the target of a*scum* action when he was RBed. He didn't leave any possibility that the person targetting him might have been town. This is why I feel that DV effectively counterclaimed him to begin with. That post also comes across as ridiculously insincere.
No, the "thanks, skank, when I find you, your dead :argh:" was a I'm-frustrated-from-having-been-roleblocked-you-big-meanie-graaww post. Note the :argh:. Smileys are often used when players are speaking in jest.
It was a joke, no where do I say that I think I was blocked by scum. Cyan's putting more words in my mouth. It is absolutely pro-town to come out with being roleblocked, and explaining the flavor. You then have a track record of who targetted who. Where I come from, back in the days of High School Mafia, Sin City Mafia, the original Random mafias, that was the way it was always done.
I didn't try to "trap" somebody because I didn't know if I had been blocked by scum.
Everything is much more simply explained by there simply being two roleblockers, and Cyan gaming the mod based on flavor.
Quote from Cyan »
CC is scum. It is painful to me that you guys can't realize this.
Good God, this is going to be the most vindicating after game banter I've ever had the chance to be a part of.
Honestly, that post is the nail in the coffin. CC doesn't make posts like that as town, no matter how many people agree with him/don't. I've seen him argue his own case fervently when he was arguing with a single person, and when the masses were opposed to
Besides, just because I'm the most vocal/the only one voting for you right this second doesn't mean that other people don't agree with me. But it's alright, I suspect we'll see enough people come forth against you now.
Unvote, Vote CropCircles
Shenanigans. How likely do you seriously think it is for someone to claim an ability that they don't have, and that can obviously be proven that they don't have? This just sounds like BS reasoning to me.
LOL. I love how you feel the need to reaffirm this stance every 3 pages or so.
No reason not to. Cyan claimed to have used his burnout spell, making him effectively vanilla.
Fair enough. I want to reread day 1 at some point anyway and get a clearer look at everything.
@Cyan: Why does a fantasy based story mean that roleblocks of the prostitution nature are out on storyline grounds? That makes no sense. Fantasy novels generally have copious amounts of storyline along these lines.
Also, now that CC has responded I will say this: CC claiming a roleblock that doesn't exist is paramount to suicide as scum. Especially on day 2. It's as simple as this: If this is a legitimate roleblock, we will see it again, verifying that CC is at least telling the truth regarding the existance of the roleblock. If we don't see it again, then we can start to question the validity of CC's claim. Personally, I highly doubt CC was lying about at least the existance of the roleblocker. Granted, I wouldn't put it past him to claim getting roleblocked when he actually is the roleblocker, or some other shenanigans along those lines, but I highly doubt he's straight up lying about this RB.
Also, I will be highly shocked if JY is scum. Scum don't go jumping out of their seats to sneak in a vanilla claim early on in the game, especially when it can easily backfire in their face (Wuffles lynched, is town, we turn to JY/JQL next). Vanilla townies are easy fodder for vig shots, lynches, etc. because they are expendable.
[The Family]
I can't help it. The overall feel of your posts comes across to me as highly scummy, even though there are some individual posts by you(such as this one) that come across as pro-town.
It is not(well not just) a 'fantasy' based game. Do you see any knights/dragons/swords/kings? No. It is a game about *magic*, and nothing else. A bunch of wizards locked in a tower. Wizards. Nobody else. Everyone in the game is a Wizard. All of the Vanilla claims even. Hell, the SK had a *false claim* that was a Wizard. The aspect of the game that *makes it a Specialty game in the first place*(Burnouts) is a magical ability. This is a game about magic, magic, and more magic. It is simply not going to have a roleblock that is carried out via non-magical means, especially when there is another RB that *IS* carried out via magical means.
No. This is not being put off. Not only does too much of this simply not add up, but CC's behavior yesterday was scummy enough that he was going to get looked at today anyway(which he undoubtedly figured was a possibility, hence his decision to randomly come forth and claimed being RBed in the first place). He is scum, and he is not getting away with it.
To put this as plainly as possible..you are wrong. Your idea of how scum will/should play is simply incorrect. The Wuffles vs. jqlgirl situation was absolutely perfect for a crafty scum. Wuffles was guaranteed to get lynched, and there was a good chance of jqlgirl getting lynched next. Are you honestly telling me that, if they both got lynched and came up town, we were going to lynch another Vanilla Town? There is *no way* that would happen. An SK typically isn't going to Vig a Vanilla claim(my guess is that Dagger thought jqlgirl was scum), and if things went down the way JY was no doubt assuming they would, it would be ages before we considered vigging him. Especially if we were already down 2 lynches.
@CC: Keep it up. It's your own grave that you're digging.
I'm sold on this. unvote, vote CropCircles
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Then could you please explain to me with your vast expanse of obvious knowledge why we have a non magic night kill. The reason seems to be elluding me.
I believe he mentioned that... Yes here...
But I will let Cyan get into it further .
They hate us cause they ain't us.
The mafia NK is often an exception. It typically has no flavor(or specifically, it's flavor doesn't vary based on whom is performing it), it can be carried out by Vanillas, etc. I've seen games where RBing someone performing the mafia NK doesn't stop the kill from happening(though to be fair, this is not typically the case). I've seen games where a mafioso can perform their own normal ability AND the mafia kill. The Mafia NK is always just 'a special team ability'. It is not relevant in this argument.
I would say that this is even evidenced in this game, where the SK kill was performed by magical means..but the mafia kill was not. There is no real reason to make this distinction, except that it is just how the mafia kill goes.
It just doesn't make sense for players in this game to have abilities that are carried out via non-magical means. It undermines the overall theme of the game itself.
He doubts a fairly obvious conclusion by Pale Mage and gives us yet another line of irrelevant filler, like most of his posts this game.
Then there's this (1000):
He makes a totally unprovoked claim to have role-based info that some abilities are non-magic, but then doesn't share any of it. He cites the dagger used by the mafia NK as evidence (already addressed satisfactorily by Cyan) and the roleblock used on him, which I outright don't believe. This game is about a magic tower in a nation of wizards. There's just no reason why there would be some random tart sleeping with people as flavor for an RB. And there's nothing in that post to suggest he actually has this "role-based info."
His posts are classic scum: filler, irrelevant comments, the occasional baseless suspicion so he can look like he's participating, and promises for future content or analysis.
Cyan attacks him, and he completely ignores half of the points against him, labels it "smearing," and then states he's "not going to waste any more breath" defending himself. He's a liar, he's an active lurker, we know what to do with both of those.
Vote CropCircles.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Fos Goat This is dumb, back it up.
Vote Cropcircles I like cyans arguments.
I'm debating whether or not to let CC respond to your post first. At any rate, I think your case is poor, and you use some pretty big exaggerations and careless reasoning to support your vote. I find exaggerating points to make a vote seem more legit to be a pretty huge scumtell. I find your careless reasoning to suggest a lack of true suspicion and more of a "here is a case I hastily threw together to support my bandwagon vote."
I wanted to see how he and others reacted to the bare vote. Also see above, re: letting CC answer first.
As far as Zindabad's post, I'm inclined to agree with you somewhat, except that I don't think it precludes CC from being scum. Additionally, JY made effectively the same post in regard to the Wuffles' wagon(the one where he says stupid things like 'On a scale of 1-10 I think it's BIG', etc), and you didn't have a problem with it. Not only that, but even today when people specifically mentioned it, you still have tried to defend JY.
This inconsistency seems strange to me, maybe you can explain it.
@Chris: I don't really get what you're trying to say. Are you asserting that DV is lying about having been RBed?
CropCircles (4) - Cyan, Archmage Eternal, Zindabad, D_V
Archmage Eternal (2) - SSB, Kpaca
Cyan (1) - WoD
TheFooFish (1) - Vampyr
Zindabad (1) - Goatrevolt
With 18 alive, it is 10 to lynch.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Doesn't mean he won't respond to Zindabad's. At any rate, I've given my reasons for finding Zindabad's vote suspicious, all I have to do is go back through and actually provide the evidence for it, which I will do after CC either responds, or declines to respond it it.
It doesn't.
It's not really an inconsistency. I don't recall the specific post you're talking about (post number?) but for the sake of argument I'll assume that post was equally as scummy as the one zindabad made. The difference here is that JY made one scummy post amidst many town tells, whereas Zindabad made a scummy post amidst many other scum tells. I think Zindabad has been consistently scummy, and here's another scummy post to add to the count, whereas I think JY's actions suggest he is town, and one scummy post doesn't necessarily counteract that read.
Something about his last post bothers me, but, I'm willing to set it aside for now, because I cannot see him being scum when I read the rest of his posts. I think that you should let this go, for the time being at least.
Ultimately, I still think that CC is where we should be looking right now.
Mod can you prod Wrath of Dog?
Abilities targeting your mirror images would fail? Is that correct?
Also:
This sounds like you used your burnout on a whim, not with the "who rezzed me" gambit in mind. Can you explain this?
Reading a couple of things before weighing in this current mess too much. I will say that two roleblockers is entirely possible, and physical abilities seem not only possible but likely. I doubt very much that DV is lying about being roleblocked, and I agree with Goat that CC is probably not lying about the physical roleblock existing.
Oh, and I like the part where he automatically assumes that he was blocked by a scum RB.
I assume that abilities that targeted my double would fail. Or they would succeed...doesn't really make a difference, it's just a % chance at being untargetable.
And I was originally planning to just confess that I'd faked the daykill, to the point that I had the post written up and previewed. Then it occurred to me that I could use my ability in the manner in which I did, instead. But my plan, when I submitted my ability to DYH(as evidenced by the fact that the scene where I 'died' was an 'attempted daykill, at my request), didn't really change as time progressed.
I guess I'm not going to get you guys to see reality about this RB nonsense, and we'll have to wait until tomorrow comes. Whatever. Sometimes I hate this game. Unvote, Vote JodoYodo
For the purpose of game mechanics, the Mafia Nightkill is, as you say, usually an exception to various standards.
From a flavor prespective, which is what the all-abilities-must-be-magic-because-that's-the-theme-of-the-game arguement is, it stands to reason that a non-magic ability, be it the nightkill or not, proves that some people are doing things that aren't spells, flavorwise. Basing a lynch on any other idea is making assumptions about the set-up in ways you can't possibly know.
But something I thought about while I was at work: there's really no reason that the skank-block has to be void of magic use.
My role pm specifically states a difference between the magic and the non-magic, but there's no reason that the non-magic part has to be anything more than the Mafia Nightkill, as Cyan seems to believe. As Cyan pointed out, the Mafia Nightkill is often an exception, so the "non-magic" part could just be the flavor for the difference in the game mechanics. It actually makes a lot of sense. Hypothetical example: DYH wants to make a roleblocker that doesn't block mafia kills - so he makes it only block magic. Or an Ascetic whose flavor is "Magic does not work on you."
So when I was skank-blocked, I assumed it was as standard as it seems, because hell, my role pm told me there would be non-magic somewhere around here, but that doesn't mean that's what it was. I could imagine a few magic based flavors for that. An Illusionist that blocks people by distracting them with fantasies. A shapeshifter who changes forms. A simple hypnotising love spell.
Whether or not you believe every ability is magic is, actually, still irrelevant.
The point is, all of this is just gaming the mod on what we think he would or would not put in the game. FYI, mods often put things in games just to burn townies who make these kinds of arguements. Go back and read LoTR Mafia, the whole game set the precedent for why trying to guess what the set-up looks like, when you can't possibly know, is bad play.
As for the behavioural part of my case: do read back in my posts. They are mostly one liners.
Ever since my triumphant return to MTGS Mafia last year, I have mostly been posting from my phone. I recieved a promotion at work a couple years back, which is why I quit after L5R. Didn't have time. I returned when I got my Blackberry, and have been using it ever since.
There is absolutely a precedant for CC's infamous one liners - I was like that in Holywood 2, where I was town. I was like that in Doomsday where I was Mafia. I was like that in Harry Potter where I was the Serial killer. It is simply not indicative of alignment.
Cyan says I've been avoiding issues, but I actually have been stating my opinions. I pushed Wuffles before Cyan's fake kill. I questioned JqlGirl and inevitably labeled her town. I took a stance and explained my reasoning when Cyan was running up Goat. I probbed Vamp. Hell, I'll post a summary for you.
118: Agreeing with Cyan that the arguements being made at the time were baseless.
120: Pure Joke
175: After Cyan and Goat go a few rounds, I chime in that I find Cyan's logic faulty, because it is based on the premise that Goat was defending himself, when he was clearly not.
203: Someone accused me on the grounds that I was faking a posting restriction, so I ask for clarification.
251: I weigh in on JqlGirl saying that her post slightly tipped my scumdar, but for different reasons then what others were saying.
252: EBWODP for spelling error.
263: Probing JqlGirl
306: Pure Joke
346: I state my belief that JqlGirl is town, and echo for a response from Jodo
365: Agree with Cyan RE Wuffles, point out a flaw in Wuffles response, and susequently vote.
374: Probe at SSB for making baseless accusations, and not backing up with a vote.
447: Call out Eco for saying he would move his vote if Wuff got close to claim range, when Wuff was close and Eco wasn't voting.
449: Pointing out a flaw in kpaca's attack and asking explination
467: Arguing with Wuffles
469: Pure Joke
483: Call out Wuffles on stalling
489: Pure joke
492: Someone took my joke seriously, so I clarified that it was a joke.
514; Wuffles claims, I support the Daykill
517: Ask Goat to clarify on "strong reasons" to think that Wuffles is town
521: More questioning of Goat
556: State my misgivings about Cyan being unwilling to daykill
618: Probe Vampyr, express my opinion that Cyan's daykill could be a gambit
624: State my realization that the cyan gambitting would be pretty convoluted (dead wrong there :p)
670: Questioning Vamp
710: Satisfied with vamp, state reasons why
712: probe WoD
794: Placeholder post
And then the day ended.
Matter of fact, go check out Doomsday, where I was scum, and had a whole 71 posts after being alive 4 whole days. I had nearly 40 in this game after day 1, meaning at this rate, I'll be at twice what I was in that game. That game I was "active lurking." If anything, my post count here is a point in my favor.
1. It was not unprovoked. There was discussion going on about an ability that detects magic. It was completely relevant to the discussion.
2."Role based" means that I would have to claim my role to share the info. It is worth it to bring up something relevant to the discussion, but not at the expense of exposing my role.
You completely missed the point.
I was saying that SSB's ability detects magic, but the mafia nightkill was by a dagger(not inherently magical), and I have role based info that there are non-magic abilities, so it clearly means that JY still could have done the Mafia Nightkill, in spite of SSB claiming that he did not use magic.
I did not try to present the dagger and the roleblock as evidence that there were non-magic abilities, the roleblock was irrelevant to that part of the post.
My posts are classic CC. I always probe people this way, I always prefer shorter posts to long drawn out PBPAs.
At the time, Cyan was the only one voting me. I didn't see the point in spending hours going back and forth just to derail the game.
I'm not lying, you are just straight wrong about that, and I'm not lurking in any way that's different from how I've played as town in other games.
[The Family]
Interesting that you say that you probed jqlgirl(who you just asked a couple of innocent questions) and that you probed vampyr(who you tried to run up with one of the weakest votes I have ever seen). Your actions towards Vampyr are a huge point against you.
That post absolutely reeks of insincerity.
I never should have unvoted, and I won't be doing so again. Unvote, Vote CropCircles
My ability interacts differantly with Magic then it does with Physical.
Yes, DYH told me that.
Why is that hard to believe?
I'm saying that if you're going to argue flavor, it makes sense. My point is that either way you look at it, you're arguement is baseless.
The Mafia Nightkill. It would make sense for my ability to interact differantly with that then with other abilities.
Where did I contradict myself?
I asked Jql a couple of "innocent questions" and was able to correctly peg her as town. For arguing against the idea that I haven't had content that is a legitimate point.
As for Vamp, I've seen scum use the arguement he used, I've attacked scum for it before. I voted for something that I legitimately believe is scummy, awaited a response, and was satisfied. I didn't try to run him up. I was probbing.
[The Family]
Please, I'll hold you to that. Enough of this going back and forth. Geez.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
Glad to see your interested in me. But not familiar with Star Trek Mafia, sorry.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
How so? Voting, or something else?
As far as CC goes, other than the short PBPA of himself and the early mention of Burnout, I don't see anything that makes me itch. No vote from me.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
It's also a fascinating story, since SSB's ability detects magic, and would apparently fail entirely against Physical abilities, *including his Burnout*, but he was never told anything about this.
Honestly, there is no way, whatsoever, that CC's claim holds up. It is consistently getting worse.
@PM: That goes to what I was saying in the first place. CC very obviously wanted us to assume that he was the target of a*scum* action when he was RBed. He didn't leave any possibility that the person targetting him might have been town. This is why I feel that DV effectively counterclaimed him to begin with. That post also comes across as ridiculously insincere.
CC is scum. It is painful to me that you guys can't realize this.
It's a slight itch, because it isn't as conclusive as Cyan paints it.
CC claims the skank-block, and concludes with the phrase "So, thanks skank, when I find you, you're dead :argh:". That can be taken as proposing the roleblocker is scum-aligned. Problem is, that doesn't really indicate a scum mindset, especially since there are other reasons to post that.
I'm not saying that his post indicates a scum mindset if you believe his post, I'm saying that, most likely, all of this physical bit is completely fabricated.
There is alot to why I think CC is scum, sometimes I just have trouble explaining what I feel should be obvious.
I didn't see him speculating so much as posing a hypothetical for example.
PPE: Why isn't it pro-town to claim being roleblocked? That's pro-town to me if it isn't public knowledge there's a roleblocker.
If there's more to why you think CC is scum, then slow down and get your thoughts together.
I fail to see a difference between 'speculating' and 'posing a hypothetical for example'.
And the way he presented that he was RBed is not pro-town. Pro-town would have been saying 'hey I was RBed'. And that's it. No inherent bias there. No nonsense referring to the RB as a skank that he wants dead. Plus that puts the burden of explaining how the RB works on the RB, instead of CC having laid it all out for them. This is why I don't believe that said RB actually happened.
Yeah. Never seen him, or anyone actually, change their vote so much.
kpaca and I were the only surviving scum and basically he barned me a lot and posted short one liners while posing questions like 'How so ____?'
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
Secondly, it is possible to be roleblocked without an ability, depending on how the mod handles roleblocking. In another game I was vanilla and still got a "congratulations you've been roleblocked " PM.
Thirdly, we don't know whether or not these "magical ropes" he refers to were actual standard roleblocking or like an "isolate" ability which both blocks and protects a player.
The "hypothetical example" was to show how a game designer could use such a distinction between magical and non-magical as a way to distinguish between the Mafia Nightkill and other abilities. I have no reason to believe that that's actually how either of the roleblocks here work, and I never said I did.
I never said I had a physical ability.
You can't keep my posts straight. That's why you're confused.
No, he was told that he interacts with Magic, and how. He wasn't told about the physical part because his ability doesn't interact with physical.
My ability interacts with both, hence I was told about both.
You clearly have no grasp on what I'm even saying.
No, the "thanks, skank, when I find you, your dead :argh:" was a I'm-frustrated-from-having-been-roleblocked-you-big-meanie-graaww post. Note the :argh:. Smileys are often used when players are speaking in jest.
It was a joke, no where do I say that I think I was blocked by scum. Cyan's putting more words in my mouth. It is absolutely pro-town to come out with being roleblocked, and explaining the flavor. You then have a track record of who targetted who. Where I come from, back in the days of High School Mafia, Sin City Mafia, the original Random mafias, that was the way it was always done.
I didn't try to "trap" somebody because I didn't know if I had been blocked by scum.
Everything is much more simply explained by there simply being two roleblockers, and Cyan gaming the mod based on flavor.
Good God, this is going to be the most vindicating after game banter I've ever had the chance to be a part of.
[The Family]
Unvote, Vote CropCircles
That's why I hate being scum, I'm to readable.
[The Family]
[The Family]