That's what he thought he meant. But in reality, he just counterclaimed CC. The odds of 2 town RBs(or one that could activate twice) are astronomically low.
Additionally, way to play the 'clueless wonder' card while your scumbuddy is going down in flames. After the way things have gone today, if CC is genuinely scum(seems v. likely), you're completely busted tomorrow.
Additionally, way to play the 'clueless wonder' card while your scumbuddy is going down in flames. After the way things have gone today, if CC is genuinely scum(seems v. likely), you're completely busted tomorrow.
SO BUSTED! Not.
Aren't D_V and CC both claiming they got ROLEBLOCKED? Not that they're roleblockers. Durr?
Yes, they're both claiming that they got RBed. That still means that 2 RBs would exist. Here are the possibilities therein:
A)There is a town RB and a scum RB. This is a possibility. It also means that one of CC and DV is scum, and one is town. Of the two, the way this game has gone(particularly the way that the claiming went), CC is *infinitely* more likely to be scum, of the two.
B)One of them lied about being RBed. If this is the case, once again, it is like 54457639598 to 1 odds that it's CC that is lying.
C)There are 2 town RBs. I honestly can't think of a time that this has happened. Ever. It's possible that there's a town RB and a JoAT, but I really doubt that a town JoAT blindly used his 1 shot RB on N1.
Logical conclusion: CC lied and got absolutely nailed on it. Especially considering his irrevent attitude this game and the 'flavor' of the RB against him.
A. Why does this mean one of them is scum? The scum roleblocker blocks DV because he made it obvious he had a role yesterday, and the town roleblocker blocks CC thinking he might be scum, etc. That's an example of how they are both town and were both roleblocked.
B. If this is the case, then I agree CC is the more likely one to be lying.
C. Harry Potter. Regardless, I agree that this isn't a very likely scenario.
Basically, I agree with B and C, but I think A is flawed.
I still think the claimed flavor of CC's RB is a tell, and honestly, it doesn't show up THAT often that the town AND the scum have an RB. Typically it's one or the other.
This should be a pretty easy lynch IMO, but you can look back at CC's behavior this game if you really need to.
Cyan
- Events surrounding the fake daykill 'gambit', specifically the way he carried out the supposed gambit and his stated purpose in doing so
- Recent 'leaps' in logic
- Something about some of his day 1 posts make me think he still has things to do at night, despite having used his burnout; or at least knew of non-magical night actions before they were mentioned/implied today.
CropCircles
- Seems strangely uninvolved, except for his altercation with Vampyr, which he attempted to frame as Vampyr calling a mislynch a win-win situation. How was he sure it was a mislynch? And I still see nothing wrong with Vampyr's standpoint.
- Stayed completely out of Cyan/goatrevolt* desCoures altercation past the first post vaguely in goatrevolt's favour?
JodoYodo
- basically everything from before. Why are we assuming vanilla =/= scum, anyway?
- disagree with goatrevolt on his late game play. The vanilla claim came literally out of nowhere, and could easily have been an opportunistic attempt to get on the vanilla ice cream cone, with JqlGirl providing 'confirmation' that at least some of the vanilla PMs were almost the same as the sample.
Deaths_Vampire
- Much questionable behaviour, but pending full re-read. Basically, though, while bad play is not scummy play, it also does not excuse scummy play mixed in with said bad play.
kpaca
- Uncomfortable feeling.. Pending full re-read.
goatrevolt and Archmage Eternal have dropped off this list based on later posts. The former is still in sight, though.
Other notes: Skander began the wagon based on Wuffles' supposed PM discrepancy, goatrevolt followed it, followed immediately by JodoYodo and Cyan. Hm.
Pending reading matter: the two noted above, MMoD, certain responses to Cyan/goatrevolt* desCoures altercation.
@goatrevolt
The faulty suspicions I mention were your quick aspersions on my motivations based on a supposed 'voting without a proper understanding of the situation' in response to me voting you for what I'd perceived as a Freudian slip. I note now, additionally, that said suspicions (along, for that matter, with loran16 voting me for the exact same reason), is tantamount to suspecting someone for not playing the 'proper way' -- the exact same thing you were bemoaning being attacked by Cyan for.
As for questions, the only ones I could find were these:
Have you actually read Vampyr's posts? I think he makes it pretty clear that he wants anyone who claims vanilla to die in order to "clear the trees" to find scum.
DC, did you read the game, or did you just skim through it? What are your thoughts on the rest of the discussions taking place?
To the first question, skimmed, followed by slow re-reading. And as I would have answered both you and SK-Dagger yesterday, Vampyr does indeed say at one point that he thinks Wuffles is not being entirely truthful about his claim.
As to 'my thoughts on the rest of the discussions', I think I mentioned some in posts later on, before the end of the day. The only real major discussions were JqlGirl and Wuffles anyway.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Ergh. Apparently '/me' converts even when attached to something else. -_-;;;
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
1. Why exactly do you find DV town again?
2. Why did you use up your burnout on a gambit on day 1 instead of just admitting to having lied about a daykill? It's not like fake daykills are unknown and forbidden territory around here.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
1)There is no scummy play on DV's part. Literally nonewhatsoever. There is only bad play. I know you're able to make the disctinction between the two. I'm not saying that he can't be scum, I'm saying that there's nothing to base him being scum on, and his play feels significantly more like newb town than newb scum.
2)My burnout didn't seem that great, and I didn't want to deter protections/investigations/etc on me with my normal ability anyway. I had a unique opportunity to use my burnout and did so. Giving up all of the info immediately upon coming back felt pointless; I thought there might be an off-chance that some desperate/in trouble scum would try to claim the 'rez' on me and I could bust them.
I take alot of seemingly erractic actions because I feel that people, especially scum, will give information away by not knowing how to respond/react. This strategy almost always works, even when people know about it. Playing aggressively goes along the same vein.
And I have nothing to do at night. SSB can verify that last night, at the very least, I didn't do anything.
I don't think you should be so quick to give up suspicion on GR. I'm still of the opinion that he is scum. Moreso after current events. I'm just giving him alot of rope to hang himself with.
Assuming one townie RB, and one scum RB, AND assuming neither is lying AND assuming that scum don't block scum, we can only say that at least one of them isn't scum.
I think CC's roleblock flavour is a non-tell, prostitutes as roleblockers is oldschool and using that flavour-meta argument is lame and weak.
SO once again we have Cyan being obnoxious and insulting me when really he was just missing the gaping obvious hole in his amazing cleverness. It's not like GR provided an out for CC, a mafia-playing monkey could've figured it out.
I just realized, I only detect spells. CCs being laid doesn't constitute a spell, now does it?
No, it probably doesn't. Dagger's eponymous death was probably not the result of a spell, either....unless the wizard is really, really lazy. It seems we have a mixture of ability types this game.
Assuming one townie RB, and one scum RB, AND assuming neither is lying AND assuming that scum don't block scum, we can only say that at least one of them isn't scum.
I think CC's roleblock flavour is a non-tell, prostitutes as roleblockers is oldschool and using that flavour-meta argument is lame and weak.
SO once again we have Cyan being obnoxious and insulting me when really he was just missing the gaping obvious hole in his amazing cleverness. It's not like GR provided an out for CC, a mafia-playing monkey could've figured it out.
FOS: JodoYodo
This is the second recent post of yours that makes me want to test your claim with a rope. I don't understand the level of Cyan hate you're spouting. There's a flaw in his logic, and he's being a little condescending (it's Cyan...duh), but your reactions to that seem larger than necessary. On top of which, you aren't expressing suspicion on Cyan, just insulting him. What purpose does this serve other than to discredit him without using logic?
AND AGAIN: IN WHAT WAY AM I FISHING YOU?
(Mabye if I bold the question and write in caps only you will answer...)
Has it occurred to you that DV may not have a proper understanding of "fishing"? Perhaps you should make sure the word means the same thing to him as it does to you.
Good thing Goat provided CC with a plausible out though.
Is this a serious comment, Cyan?
@Goat - Not sure what you mean by my approach to Wuffles being "off". I think "under the radar" is a mischaracterization of my play yesterday, though I did pull back a bit at times (as I will today and tomorrow etcetera until the ending of my days). Sorry you don't like how I approached Sand, but I had already decided I wanted a claim from Sand yesterday, and nothing that he said made me think I shouldn't get one. The end result is he's likely town and not lynched, which is the second best result from a wagon in my opinion. No regrets from me.
Not sure where Cyan is going with this RB attack... seems weak as hell.
Not sure about JY either... I'm more of the thought that his outing is not a scum tell. Other than that, he didn't really post anything last game day. I need to go back and relook today. I'd say however, that his insulting Cyan is not as big a tell as it would if it was directed at someone else, since I can see why Cyan gets under people's skins; I used to be so annoyed when I read his posts (this was like back when Cyan started playing), Wuffles still gets into pissing matches, and chamber couldn't even be in the same game as him.
Abilities targeting your mirror images would fail?
[quote=Cyan;3585335
2)I had a unique opportunity to use my burnout and did so. Giving up all of the info immediately upon coming back felt pointless; I thought there might be an off-chance that some desperate/in trouble scum would try to claim the 'rez' on me and I could bust them.
This sounds like you used your burnout on a whim, not with the planned gambit in mind.
Some unanswered day 1 items, not sure what relevance any of this will have afterwards, so if anything I mentioned is covered later, I'll find it as I catch up.
Oh and sorry for the double/triple/however many posts I may stack up here. Figure breaking things down into smaller posts is preferable to a Great Salvation Wall of Text.
Furthermore, you seem to want to operate under the assumption of "If you claim vanilla, you die." Wouldn't it just be an easy and safe play for the scum to claim something other than vanilla then? If you're going to crusade for the death of every vanilla townie claim, the scum merely have to not claim vanilla to avoid it.
Making strict ultimatums like this simply tell the scum what they need to do to avoid getting called out for their claim. I think a much better option is to evaluate each claim on an individual basis.
I don't advocate killing vanillas just for the sake of them being vanilla. If someone claims vanilla and their play heavily indicates that they are town, then it's a complete waste to let them burn. You can "burn through them" to clear the swath to get to the scum. OR better yet, just ignore them, move past them, and get to the scum that much faster.
I think the tree theory is bunk. Scum will always try to find trees to hide behind. If you eliminate vanilla as a possible tree, then maybe "weak information role" is the next tree. If you eliminate that, maybe "power role" is the tree. If you don't want scum to hide behind a tree, then don't let them know what constitutes a tree. Then they won't know how to hide.
Nobody is giving Wuffles a pass for being first. Nor do I think the 2nd person to claim vanilla should be auto-lynched. The point is to evaluate them on a case by case basis. Furthermore, this was in response to your statement that "if we let Wuffles go, then we'll subsequently let them all go" which is flawed. What are you basing that assumption off of? Nobody in the thread has suggested that all vanillas should be let off the hook, as you seem to think. People are suggesting Wuffles be let off the hook. Not because he's vanilla, but because they think he's town.
The issue I'm having is now we've crossed into mafia theory and are debating our own feelings on who best to deal with vanillas. This isn't scum hunting. I'm more than happy to continue this after the game is over in the mafia theory section.
*NOTE* this is not me dismissing the conversation GR and I are having. If someone thinks there is a relevant point to my view of vanillas and this game, please ask or direct a specific comment towards me. I simply don't believe discussing "what if half the town is vanilla" is working towards catching scum.
Remind me of this game. I don't recall ever being a proponent of lynching someone just because he or she is a vanilla and dismissing their behavioral tells. I do recall going against Some One's lynch in Doomsday after he claimed vanilla due to his actions during claim time and placing Alx2 above several "town's power roles" in my confirmed town list in Black Isle even though he was a vanilla.
I viewed the circumstances surrounding Wuffles to be favorable in the indication that he is town, irregardless of his claim. If he claimed vanilla, so be it. You proposed though we should follow the precedent that lynching all claimed vanillas is the way to go, and that I totally disagree with. You stated that this would give scums safe claims in vanilla, and I say, will it? I don't see any reason we'll automatically give the subsequent claimed vanillas a free pass, when the circumstances surrounding Wuffles' claim is rather unique.
Actually, he told us his own vigging might kill him, not that it would fail.
As I'm far enough behind in this game, finding you the game I'm thinking of will take a bit, but I'll go look.
I think it gives scum a place to hide until all other options are chased down and explored. I'm simply saying that, given the set up of this game, I don't want to wait.
After reading this short series of posts, I actually think I support Vampyr more here. The disconnect here, I feel, is that you -- that being PM and goatrevolt -- are mistaking that Vampyr wants to lynch Wuffles just because he's claimed vanilla. Just as you two appear to have gotten a town read off of that whole failed (?) daykill interaction, Vampyr seems to have gotten a neutral-to-scum read. At the very least, he thinks that Wuffles is lying about his vanilla claim (which I'll have to properly re-read to see if I agree with), which would naturally lead him to want to lynch Wuffles 'just in case', taking the risk that he really is vanilla town of middling-to-low usefulness. Which I said, and which I'll note neither of you appear to have addressed...
...hm. Perhaps I should start that re-read with Wuffles and his interactions with some other people...
No, I was suspicious enough of wuffles to vote him and force his claim. I didn't want to lynch ONLY because he claimed vanilla. The fact that he claimed vanilla and the sample PM simply made me unwilling to reconsider his actions after the fake daykill.
And as GR comments later, yes I do think that if there is an unlimited vig on the town's side that s/he should be sniping off vanillas at night.
Why are we still looking to Wuffles and Cyan? Cyan's abilities makes him likely to be town, and Wuffles' response right before Cyan's backfire makes him look townie as well. .
WOD's gambit idea looks pretty bad with too many holes and too little to back it up.
I had the ability to create a mirror image of myself each night. If I was targeted with an ability, there was an even chance that a mirror image could be targeted instead of me. Each image created would stick around until targeted with an ability.
Placeholder for future comment once I hear back from SSB.
Yes, I have ignored everything "scummy" that she has done. -Her natural posting style is "scummy". Traditional scum tells aren't the way to analyze jql. The way to approach her is to look for town tells, and she has done enough to make me uncomfortable voting her. Sometimes, you need to take playstyle into account and give people the benefit of the doubt. Scum tells aren't absolute.
For example, despite the fact that your little stunt is more than worthy of a vote, I won't be moving mine over, because I've come to expect such ridiculous behavior from you. Playstyle > "scum tells".
I don't like the bolded part. It's a shame jql ended up dead as I don't like how TFF is gave her a pass on her 'townie tells' but never listed what they are/were. Her showing up as town after this "ohh I'm defending her, really I am" try leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
The Wuffles wagon has rolled back into town! I shall leave my vote on SBB for now because I really don't like him. I will, however, be perfectly content to Hammer Wuffles should the opportunity arise.
Wow. That's really all this deserves. Simply "Wow."
It may not be as bad an idea as it would normally be at this point in the game, but even so, I'd say it's still a bit early to be laying all our cards on the table.
And GR, why do you feel JY is town? I still feel very uncomfortable about him.
And here continues my suspicion of TFF, willing to follow along with SSB's bad option of a mass claim, oh but wait, then he flip flops and says to hold off.
I think Sand knows he is going to get lynched today and either
a) He wants to throw us off by being random if he is scum
b) He is a jester that would bring epic lulz
You apparenly give DYH absolutely no credit as a game designer.
I'm interested in seeing what CC and Vampyr have to say about the revelations from SSB. I didn't like the way the former jumped down the latter's throat over his explanation of why it wasn't such a bad idea to lynch Wuffles, and I've got my eye on him.
I think SSB seriously overplayed his hand. Using his burnout probably was the best choice to provide information to the town. But the repeated insistance at a mass claim blew any miniscule chance he had at credibility.
I believe SSB is town. And I'm willing to listen, when the time is appropriate, for SSB to reveal what he knows.
In other words, knock off the info seepage. Stop stating who has and hasn't used what ability or not, please.
Alright, I think I'm gonna need to claim a couple of things.
First of all, I have role based info that not all abilities are Magic based. Mafia kill being done with a dagger, clearly not magic, clearly this means nothing for Jodo. (I will add that I'm not particularly suspicious of Jodo, though)
On that note, one of those muggle-type abilities was used on me last night. Ironically, I got laid, which was totally awesome, up until the part that it was all just flavor for a roleblock.
I'm slightly confused here. You state "I have role based info that not all abilities are magic based." Are you claiming that your role has that? Or as a result of your claim of being RB? Because taking the flavor from the kill scene and coupling it with said claimed RB, doesn't really add up, at least in my mind, that you have 'role based info.'
I still think the claimed flavor of CC's RB is a tell, and honestly, it doesn't show up THAT often that the town AND the scum have an RB. Typically it's one or the other.
This should be a pretty easy lynch IMO, but you can look back at CC's behavior this game if you really need to.
I'm not quite sure this is a pretty easy lynch, just quite yet. I believe you have a good point about ths situation, but I'm not willing to go along with it quite yet.
I'd like to hear something from CC and V_D answer my question and I'll go from there.
In the meantime Vote: TheFooFish as I believe he is a McScummity Scumbag.
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Current Soul Collector count: 184
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
You're taking the cue of it having to be magical from others rather than your own pm, or whatever you received to indicate your being roleblocked?
What?
I was roleblocked. The PM didn't say this is magical. It said ropes come from the ground and surround you locking you in your bed. That is pretty magical.
Sandsoft said he can detect all magic that was used last night. I am pretty sure that who ever blocked me was the Mafia roleblocker. So, with sandsofts list I am pretty for sure we could catch them today.
Cropcircle's argument is a little weird. I can follow the logic(it is logical btw), but I need to think if it has merit.
The fact that we're in a magical game and one of the RBs being described is magic-based and one isn't also lends credibility to the theory that one of them is fake. The one that isn't magical of course.
It should be pretty apparent to you guys that CC lied. It is overwhelmingly more likely.
The fact that we're in a magical game and one of the RBs being described is magic-based and one isn't also lends credibility to the theory that one of them is fake. The one that isn't magical of course.
It should be pretty apparent to you guys that CC lied. It is overwhelmingly more likely.
when you first brought it up, I agree. But I thought some about it as I was making my comments and something struck me as odd.
I want to hear something on the topic from CC and then I will voice my concern.
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Current Soul Collector count: 184
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Harry Potter Mafia
Final Fantasy VII Mafia
Hamlet Mafia*
Hollywood Mafia 2
Insane Asylum*
24 Salvation Code
Random Mafia 3*
Matrix Mafia
Coldwar Mafia*
View Askew Mafia
Warcraft III Mafia
Hollywood Mafia*
Romance of the Three Kingdoms Mafia
Star Trek Mafia
Douglas Adams Mafia
Sin City Mafia
World Domination Mafia 2
Random Mafia 2
High School Mafia
Random Mafia
What do the above twenty games all have in common?
They are all games that have had multiple roleblockers.
Seriously, Cyan, I can only imagine you are intentionally being dense.
As for the flavor of the roleblock being the same as mine in Hollywood 2: Uhhh, yeah, it's only like the most common flavor for a roleblock. Hollywood 1 & 2, High School, Song of Fire and Ice, Dollar...just off the top of my head. Pretty sure I've seen role guides that describe the Roleblocker as "Prostitute" or "Escort" or something like that.
As for the non-magic abilities, we've already seen someone killed by a dagger. You don't have to take my word on it, that's public info right there. Sure, it could have a magic dagger, but if you're seriously going to suspect me for something as weak as that, you deserve to be wrong.
I've commited to the information that there are non-magic abilities, if we go a few more days without seeing the effects or a claim of any, then you might have reason to suspect.
@Vamp: "I have role based info" means just that. I have info based on my role, not at all related to the roleblock and not at all related to the death scene, that there are non-magic abilities in the game.
Didn't seem particularly relevant yesterday, but with SSB claiming to be able to track magic, I thought I should bring it out so we don't go clearing or damning people based on the idea that "didn't use magic" instantly means "didn't use an ability."
EBWODP: the * denotes games where I'm counting a jailer as a roleblocker. Obv, even if you take those out, you've still got 15 games of the ones I'm familiar with that have had to roleblockers.
The vote business is more serious; I am essentially saying "Given the information I see, I don't want the day to end at this point with a Wuffles lynch".
Right now I guess I think that daykilling Wuffles would be okay, but not fantastic.
Sitting on the fence? You don't want him to die, but you do want him to die, but you really don't want him to die?
I think that Wuffles claim for his role PM is QUITE suspect. On a scale of 1-10 I'd rate it as "BIG".
I probably shouldn't do this but I might as well, I'm a vanilla too and from what I've seen and through comparisons, Wuffles is lying.
Unvote, Vote Wuffles
__________________
Wuffles having a slightly different PM -> Normal
JqlGirl and I having the exact same PM and Wuffles not -> Not normal
You've been voting Jql but then jump on Wuffles. After saying you don't want to see him lynched. You say you and JQ have the same but you've been voting her? Here she says...
A couple reasons: Wuffles has never been high on my radar, and his claim makes sense considering the wording of my own role PM.
But you say its not normal. Jql as town doesn't have a problem with it.
Mostly because I'm wondering why Dagger would kill JqlGirl. It doesn't really make sense. And then who killed Dagger? And where is the scum kill? Was it a crosskill?
Here to me it looks like your trying to find out who killed Dagger 'cause as scum you want to find your next target. Vote JodoYodo
As for the non-magic abilities, we've already seen someone killed by a dagger. You don't have to take my word on it, that's public info right there. Sure, it could have a magic dagger, but if you're seriously going to suspect me for something as weak as that, you deserve to be wrong.
The Mafia NK being performed in a non-magic sense is not, even a little bit, the same as people's standard abilities being magical/not. In *this game*, all of the evidence that we have points to people's inherent abilities being magical. This is particularly evident with the concept of Burnout.
Also, I find it fascinating that you focused on the *least* relevant point that was brought up against you, and completely ignored everything else.
Also, nice strawman.
As for the flavor of the roleblock being the same as mine in Hollywood 2: Uhhh, yeah, it's only like the most common flavor for a roleblock. Hollywood 1 & 2, High School, Song of Fire and Ice, Dollar...just off the top of my head. Pretty sure I've seen role guides that describe the Roleblocker as "Prostitute" or "Escort" or something like that.
This is nonsense. Roleblocks are, almost always, in flavor with the theme of the game. 'A prostitute' is very obviously not the 'most common method'. And in a game like this one, prostitution is extremely unlikely to be RB flavor.
This is particularly relevant because the flavor that DV claimed for the RB against him is EXACTLY what you would expect in this type of game. Are you really trying to argue that there is going to be one magical RB, and one non-magic one? Why would that possibly be the case? It's pointless.
The Mafia NK being performed in a non-magic sense is not, even a little bit, the same as people's standard abilities being magical/not. In *this game*, all of the evidence that we have points to people's inherent abilities being magical. This is particularly evident with the concept of Burnout.
If the mafia kill is non-magic, it stands to reason that their other abilities could easily be non-magic.
Quote from Cyan »
Also, I find it fascinating that you focused on the *least* relevant point that was brought up against you, and completely ignored everything else.
I hardly focused on that point. And all the points are completely stupid. You're smearing.
Quote from Cyan »
Also, nice strawman.
If you're looking for a proper response, you'll need to elaborate on how that is a strawman.
Quote from Cyan »
This is nonsense. Roleblocks are, almost always, in flavor with the theme of the game. 'A prostitute' is very obviously not the 'most common method'. And in a game like this one, prostitution is extremely unlikely to be RB flavor.
You're doing nothing but gaming the mod.
Quote from Cyan »
This is particularly relevant because the flavor that DV claimed for the RB against him is EXACTLY what you would expect in this type of game. Are you really trying to argue that there is going to be one magical RB, and one non-magic one? Why would that possibly be the case? It's pointless.
It's not pointless. SSB has already claimed an ability that specifically interacts with Magic abilities, so abilities that get around that, or whatever else interacts specifically with Magic, would not be "pointless."
And you, sir, came at me because of a "counterclaim." The focus of this discussion, which I debunked in my last post, that there can only ever be one roleblocker in a game of mafia, you completely ignored. Explain that.
Her showing up as town after this "ohh I'm defending her, really I am" try leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
And if she showed up scum you'd be accusing me of defending a scum buddy.
I know some people dislike how I try to defend people I think are town. But I dislike mislynches, so you're just going to have to deal with it.
Quote from Vampyr »
And then TFF does this. Nothing says you had to vote him. If you didn't like the screwed up claim, don't vote him. Simple.
But, I wanted to vote him.
I was just upset that the behavior-based wagon fell apart, and then was replaced with a claim-based wagon.
And here continues my suspicion of TFF, willing to follow along with SSB's bad option of a mass claim, oh but wait, then he flip flops and says to hold off.
What? Are you intentionally misrepresenting me here?
I never wanted to do the mass claim. It would be bad this early. I was simply pointing out that it wouldn't be as bad as usual, not that it would be good or something we should do.
Are you really trying to argue that there is going to be one magical RB, and one non-magic one? Why would that possibly be the case? It's pointless.
-Not if there are roles that interact differently with physical and magical abilities. For example, SSB's claimed ability couldn't detect a physical roleblock. In that case, having two different types of roleblocks makes a lot of sense. I believe CC here.
If the mafia kill is non-magic, it stands to reason that their other abilities could easily be non-magic.
No, it does not. The mafia kill is almost always treated as a seperate ability. For example, even in flavor heavy games, the kill is just the kill. It doesn't matter which mafioso is performing it.
I hardly focused on that point. And all the points are completely stupid. You're smearing.
You absolutely focused on that point. And dismissing the other points as 'completely stupid' is nonsense. So the fact that all of your posts have been spam one-liners is stupid? Or how you have entirely dodged all of the major conversations that have occured thus far? That's stupid too?
You're doing nothing but gaming the mod.
Incorrect. It is not gaming the Mod to say that RBs are, typically, flavorfully accurate. Look back at the games that you provided, the examples are all there.
Also running the 'gaming the Mod' excuse without providing any reasoning as to why is extremely weak.
It's not pointless. SSB has already claimed an ability that specifically interacts with Magic abilities, so abilities that get around that, or whatever else interacts specifically with Magic, would not be "pointless."
[quote]
And you, sir, came at me because of a "counterclaim." The focus of this discussion, which I debunked in my last post, that there can only ever be one roleblocker in a game of mafia, you completely ignored. Explain that.
Right. Because, when you stated that you were RBed, you didn't want us to automatically assume that it was scum that RBed you? Of course you were open to the possibility that you might have been RBed by a townie. That's why you said as much, right? Oh wait, that didn't happen. You put forth your claim because the natural assumption people are going to make in a situation like that is that you were RBed by a scum. DV shattered that. Hence, in every practical sense, you were counterclaimed.
-Not if there are roles that interact differently with physical and magical abilities. For example, SSB's claimed ability couldn't detect a physical roleblock. In that case, having two different types of roleblocks makes a lot of sense. I believe CC here.
How do you know what SSB's ability(I like how you refer to it as a claimed ability, trying to take away from the validity of it) can or cannot do?
I like how you are extrapolating that having different types of RBs 'makes alot of sense'(when in fact, it makes no sense whatsoever), when you're forced to start off with the assumption that the game has ANY non-magical abilities(once again, the mafia NK does not count; it never does), despite the fact that there is no basis for thinking that there are non-magic abilities in this game.
I think what is really happening is that you just want to back up CC here, and tried to build a case around doing so that ultimately concludes with you 'believing him'.
And furthermore, Vampyr is right. You liked being on the Wuffles' wagon when it was behavior based, because, as scum, this doesn't make you look bad. When you rejoined it, you were simply trying to play both sides of the fence. You wanted Wuffles to get lynched, but you also wanted to A)distance yourself from his wagon and B)attack the people that had joined it(which is also really just distancing yourself from it). If you really thought that there behavior in joining was so contestable, you would have acted differently.
Ultimate conclusion(s):
Still of the opinion that CropCircles is scum. Along with JodoYodo. And TFF as well. Not completely sure on TFF, and more information(night actions, etc) could provide clarity in regard to CC. Knowing JY's alignment would also provide information on both of the other 2, based on their interactions. Unvote, Vote JY
How do you know what SSB's ability(I like how you refer to it as a claimed ability, trying to take away from the validity of it) can or cannot do?
I don't know what it can actually do, I only know what SSB says it can do (hence me referring to his "claimed ability" AKA the ability he claimed to have). And no, I'm not taking validity away from anything; I believe his claim, as much as I can believe any claim that isn't mod confirmed.
I like how you are extrapolating that having different types of RBs 'makes alot of sense'(when in fact, it makes no sense whatsoever), when you're forced to start off with the assumption that the game has ANY non-magical abilities(once again, the mafia NK does not count; it never does), despite the fact that there is no basis for thinking that there are non-magic abilities in this game.
Just because you have no basis for thinking that there are non-magic abilities, doesn't mean such a basis doesn't exist.
you also wanted to A)distance yourself from his wagon and B)attack the people that had joined it(which is also really just distancing yourself from it). If you really thought that there behavior in joining was so contestable, you would have acted differently.
I love Cyan-logic.
A) I joined the wagon (this is the opposite of distancing).
B) I never attacked the wagon (this is the opposite of attacking).
And do you know why I acted differently than I would have if I thought their behavior was contestable? -Because I didn't think there behavior was contestable. Screwing up a claim is a perfectly valid reason for voting someone. It just made me sad that a perfectly good behavioral case wasn't enough (okay, maybe it wasn't perfectly good, since wuffles was town, but even solid behavioral analysis is no match for hind sight).
Just because you have no basis for thinking that there are non-magic abilities, doesn't mean such a basis doesn't exist.
Your logic fails in face of the statement, because you are assuming that there ARE physical abilities, despite having no actual evidence for this, and despite the fact that there is evidence CONTRARY to this.
I love Cyan-logic.
A) I joined the wagon (this is the opposite of distancing).
No, distancing is exactly what you did. You were on the wagon, but tried to decry some aspect of it. This is distancing.
B) I never attacked the wagon (this is the opposite of attacking).
You lamented about it people not joining it based on behavior but only based on his claim. This is the same thing.
And do you know why I acted differently than I would have if I thought their behavior was contestable? -Because I didn't think there behavior was contestable. Screwing up a claim is a perfectly valid reason for voting someone. It just made me sad that a perfectly good behavioral case wasn't enough (okay, maybe it wasn't perfectly good, since wuffles was town, but even solid behavioral analysis is no match for hind sight).
Way to contradict what you just said.
This isn't a terrible point. But I can't really think of what would be a more flavorfully accurate physical roleblock for this game.
The point is that, most likely, there IS NO physical RB, CC just made up an RB, and used the flavor most convenient to himself.
No, distancing is exactly what you did. You were on the wagon, but tried to decry some aspect of it. This is distancing.
You lamented about it people not joining it based on behavior but only based on his claim.
I never decried anything. I never said reason 'B' was a bad reason to be on the wagon, I was simply saying that I wished reason 'A' was enough.
And lament is a very inappropriately strong word. You're looking for something closer to "slight disappointment." And yes, it disappoints me when players ignore behavior and mindset in favor of things like PM wording.
The point is that, most likely, there IS NO physical RB, CC just made up an RB, and used the flavor most convenient to himself.
It's possible there isn't a physical RB, but it's not impossible or even unlikely that there is. -The fact that he claimed a non-magical RB is in no way proof that he's lying. And all things considered, a pair of different RB's makes sense. And I see no reason to distrust CC here.
It is absolutely unlikely that there is a physical RB. All *evidence* that we have points to the game having no physical abilities. Again, the mafia NK DOES NOT COUNT. It never does. The fact that CC tried to use it as his evidence is a huge point against him. He knows better than to make that kind of argument.
Here is another question for you. Do you think that people with physical abilities don't have Burnouts? I mean, they really can't. It doesn't track that a person would have one physical ability, and still have a burnout..because those people would NOT become Vanilla when their burnout is used, which works against the theme of the game itself.
So, if you assume that people with physical abilities don't have burnouts..how many do you figure there are? Why would a Mod create an underlying theme like 'Burnout', and then just make a bunch of roles that can't interact with it? I mean seriously. Burnout is so important to the game itself that the Mod gives all of the Vanillas flavor as to *why they don't have one*.
Furthermore, why would a Mod make abilities like 'detect magic', and then make physical abilities that just bypass this? *Especially* when someone's burnout is a mass detect magic. That's like 'hey here's this cool ability. Oh but wait, it doesn't work on a bunch of players. gotcha'. It's not going to happen. It didn't happen.
This game has no physical abilities. CC lied, and he is busted. It is time for action against him to move forward.
I don't intend to waste any more breath on this arguement so long a Cyan is the only one voting me, and most everyone else responding seems to see his case as bull. Espiecially seeing as I have to be to work in an hour.
If anyone else has anything they want me to respond to, it's likely I missed things in the wave of mod-gaming BS that Cyan spouted at me, just me point me toward it and I will.
Ahahahahahahaha.
Unvote, Vote CropCircles
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
Additionally, way to play the 'clueless wonder' card while your scumbuddy is going down in flames. After the way things have gone today, if CC is genuinely scum(seems v. likely), you're completely busted tomorrow.
Hard to believe I didn't notice this earlier, but CC, can't believe you tried to use the RB flavor from Hollywood 2.
SO BUSTED! Not.
Aren't D_V and CC both claiming they got ROLEBLOCKED? Not that they're roleblockers. Durr?
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
Are you really that dense? I mean seriously?
Yes, they're both claiming that they got RBed. That still means that 2 RBs would exist. Here are the possibilities therein:
A)There is a town RB and a scum RB. This is a possibility. It also means that one of CC and DV is scum, and one is town. Of the two, the way this game has gone(particularly the way that the claiming went), CC is *infinitely* more likely to be scum, of the two.
B)One of them lied about being RBed. If this is the case, once again, it is like 54457639598 to 1 odds that it's CC that is lying.
C)There are 2 town RBs. I honestly can't think of a time that this has happened. Ever. It's possible that there's a town RB and a JoAT, but I really doubt that a town JoAT blindly used his 1 shot RB on N1.
Logical conclusion: CC lied and got absolutely nailed on it. Especially considering his irrevent attitude this game and the 'flavor' of the RB against him.
B. If this is the case, then I agree CC is the more likely one to be lying.
C. Harry Potter. Regardless, I agree that this isn't a very likely scenario.
Basically, I agree with B and C, but I think A is flawed.
Sure, situation A is possible. And ridiculously unlikely. CC is scum.
I still think the claimed flavor of CC's RB is a tell, and honestly, it doesn't show up THAT often that the town AND the scum have an RB. Typically it's one or the other.
This should be a pretty easy lynch IMO, but you can look back at CC's behavior this game if you really need to.
Good thing Goat provided CC with a plausible out though.
I don't think me suggesting the obvious flaw (and mmod pointed it out as well) is really providing CC with an out.
Point taken, though. I have more to say on the matter, but I'll wait till CC answers first.
Cyan
- Events surrounding the fake daykill 'gambit', specifically the way he carried out the supposed gambit and his stated purpose in doing so
- Recent 'leaps' in logic
- Something about some of his day 1 posts make me think he still has things to do at night, despite having used his burnout; or at least knew of non-magical night actions before they were mentioned/implied today.
CropCircles
- Seems strangely uninvolved, except for his altercation with Vampyr, which he attempted to frame as Vampyr calling a mislynch a win-win situation. How was he sure it was a mislynch? And I still see nothing wrong with Vampyr's standpoint.
- Stayed completely out of Cyan/goatrevolt* desCoures altercation past the first post vaguely in goatrevolt's favour?
JodoYodo
- basically everything from before. Why are we assuming vanilla =/= scum, anyway?
- disagree with goatrevolt on his late game play. The vanilla claim came literally out of nowhere, and could easily have been an opportunistic attempt to get on the vanilla ice cream cone, with JqlGirl providing 'confirmation' that at least some of the vanilla PMs were almost the same as the sample.
Deaths_Vampire
- Much questionable behaviour, but pending full re-read. Basically, though, while bad play is not scummy play, it also does not excuse scummy play mixed in with said bad play.
kpaca
- Uncomfortable feeling.. Pending full re-read.
goatrevolt and Archmage Eternal have dropped off this list based on later posts. The former is still in sight, though.
Other notes: Skander began the wagon based on Wuffles' supposed PM discrepancy, goatrevolt followed it, followed immediately by JodoYodo and Cyan. Hm.
Pending reading matter: the two noted above, MMoD, certain responses to Cyan/goatrevolt* desCoures altercation.
@goatrevolt
The faulty suspicions I mention were your quick aspersions on my motivations based on a supposed 'voting without a proper understanding of the situation' in response to me voting you for what I'd perceived as a Freudian slip. I note now, additionally, that said suspicions (along, for that matter, with loran16 voting me for the exact same reason), is tantamount to suspecting someone for not playing the 'proper way' -- the exact same thing you were bemoaning being attacked by Cyan for.
As for questions, the only ones I could find were these:
To the first question, skimmed, followed by slow re-reading. And as I would have answered both you and SK-Dagger yesterday, Vampyr does indeed say at one point that he thinks Wuffles is not being entirely truthful about his claim.
As to 'my thoughts on the rest of the discussions', I think I mentioned some in posts later on, before the end of the day. The only real major discussions were JqlGirl and Wuffles anyway.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
@Cyan
1. Why exactly do you find DV town again?
2. Why did you use up your burnout on a gambit on day 1 instead of just admitting to having lied about a daykill? It's not like fake daykills are unknown and forbidden territory around here.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
1)There is no scummy play on DV's part. Literally nonewhatsoever. There is only bad play. I know you're able to make the disctinction between the two. I'm not saying that he can't be scum, I'm saying that there's nothing to base him being scum on, and his play feels significantly more like newb town than newb scum.
2)My burnout didn't seem that great, and I didn't want to deter protections/investigations/etc on me with my normal ability anyway. I had a unique opportunity to use my burnout and did so. Giving up all of the info immediately upon coming back felt pointless; I thought there might be an off-chance that some desperate/in trouble scum would try to claim the 'rez' on me and I could bust them.
I take alot of seemingly erractic actions because I feel that people, especially scum, will give information away by not knowing how to respond/react. This strategy almost always works, even when people know about it. Playing aggressively goes along the same vein.
And I have nothing to do at night. SSB can verify that last night, at the very least, I didn't do anything.
I don't think you should be so quick to give up suspicion on GR. I'm still of the opinion that he is scum. Moreso after current events. I'm just giving him alot of rope to hang himself with.
I don't understand Cyan's "logic" in this situation.
I just realized, I only detect spells. CCs being laid doesn't constitute a spell, now does it?
Well... unless he was magically assisted...
I think CC's roleblock flavour is a non-tell, prostitutes as roleblockers is oldschool and using that flavour-meta argument is lame and weak.
SO once again we have Cyan being obnoxious and insulting me when really he was just missing the gaping obvious hole in his amazing cleverness. It's not like GR provided an out for CC, a mafia-playing monkey could've figured it out.
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
This supports both claimed roleblocks. Not sure why you included Cyan in this.
No, it probably doesn't. Dagger's eponymous death was probably not the result of a spell, either....unless the wizard is really, really lazy. It seems we have a mixture of ability types this game.
FOS: JodoYodo
This is the second recent post of yours that makes me want to test your claim with a rope. I don't understand the level of Cyan hate you're spouting. There's a flaw in his logic, and he's being a little condescending (it's Cyan...duh), but your reactions to that seem larger than necessary. On top of which, you aren't expressing suspicion on Cyan, just insulting him. What purpose does this serve other than to discredit him without using logic?
Has it occurred to you that DV may not have a proper understanding of "fishing"? Perhaps you should make sure the word means the same thing to him as it does to you.
Is this a serious comment, Cyan?
@Goat - Not sure what you mean by my approach to Wuffles being "off". I think "under the radar" is a mischaracterization of my play yesterday, though I did pull back a bit at times (as I will today and tomorrow etcetera until the ending of my days). Sorry you don't like how I approached Sand, but I had already decided I wanted a claim from Sand yesterday, and nothing that he said made me think I shouldn't get one. The end result is he's likely town and not lynched, which is the second best result from a wagon in my opinion. No regrets from me.
So awesome.
Is Vampyr ever going to join us today?
Not sure about JY either... I'm more of the thought that his outing is not a scum tell. Other than that, he didn't really post anything last game day. I need to go back and relook today. I'd say however, that his insulting Cyan is not as big a tell as it would if it was directed at someone else, since I can see why Cyan gets under people's skins; I used to be so annoyed when I read his posts (this was like back when Cyan started playing), Wuffles still gets into pissing matches, and chamber couldn't even be in the same game as him.
Archmage Eternal (2) - SSB, Kpaca
CropCircles (1) - Cyan
Cyan (1) - WoD
SSb (1) - D_V
With 18 alive, it is 10 to lynch.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Since Cyan claimed using his burnout I would assume.
This sounds like you used your burnout on a whim, not with the planned gambit in mind.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Oh and sorry for the double/triple/however many posts I may stack up here. Figure breaking things down into smaller posts is preferable to a Great Salvation Wall of Text.
The issue I'm having is now we've crossed into mafia theory and are debating our own feelings on who best to deal with vanillas. This isn't scum hunting. I'm more than happy to continue this after the game is over in the mafia theory section.
*NOTE* this is not me dismissing the conversation GR and I are having. If someone thinks there is a relevant point to my view of vanillas and this game, please ask or direct a specific comment towards me. I simply don't believe discussing "what if half the town is vanilla" is working towards catching scum.
As I'm far enough behind in this game, finding you the game I'm thinking of will take a bit, but I'll go look.
I think it gives scum a place to hide until all other options are chased down and explored. I'm simply saying that, given the set up of this game, I don't want to wait.
No, I was suspicious enough of wuffles to vote him and force his claim. I didn't want to lynch ONLY because he claimed vanilla. The fact that he claimed vanilla and the sample PM simply made me unwilling to reconsider his actions after the fake daykill.
And as GR comments later, yes I do think that if there is an unlimited vig on the town's side that s/he should be sniping off vanillas at night.
Please answer "Why?" regarding the bolded part?
Placeholder for future comment once I hear back from SSB.
I don't like the bolded part. It's a shame jql ended up dead as I don't like how TFF is gave her a pass on her 'townie tells' but never listed what they are/were. Her showing up as town after this "ohh I'm defending her, really I am" try leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Wow. That's really all this deserves. Simply "Wow."
And then TFF does this. Nothing says you had to vote him. If you didn't like the screwed up claim, don't vote him. Simple.
At this point, I TFF would have my vote. But holding off on placing it as I want to finish catching up.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Bad things...yeah definately. Bad, bad things.
And here continues my suspicion of TFF, willing to follow along with SSB's bad option of a mass claim, oh but wait, then he flip flops and says to hold off.
You apparenly give DYH absolutely no credit as a game designer.
Ohh, now we're taking a stance? What happened to that mass claim willingness earlier? Would power roles not have been revealed then?
I think SSB seriously overplayed his hand. Using his burnout probably was the best choice to provide information to the town. But the repeated insistance at a mass claim blew any miniscule chance he had at credibility.
I believe SSB is town. And I'm willing to listen, when the time is appropriate, for SSB to reveal what he knows.
In other words, knock off the info seepage. Stop stating who has and hasn't used what ability or not, please.
I'm slightly confused here. You state "I have role based info that not all abilities are magic based." Are you claiming that your role has that? Or as a result of your claim of being RB? Because taking the flavor from the kill scene and coupling it with said claimed RB, doesn't really add up, at least in my mind, that you have 'role based info.'
Why do you say "magical means?"
I'm not quite sure this is a pretty easy lynch, just quite yet. I believe you have a good point about ths situation, but I'm not willing to go along with it quite yet.
I'd like to hear something from CC and V_D answer my question and I'll go from there.
In the meantime Vote: TheFooFish as I believe he is a McScummity Scumbag.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
I don't understand how you make the assumption on this then.
You're taking the cue of it having to be magical from others rather than your own pm, or whatever you received to indicate your being roleblocked?
Did I miss something in my catching up?
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
I was roleblocked. The PM didn't say this is magical. It said ropes come from the ground and surround you locking you in your bed. That is pretty magical.
Sandsoft said he can detect all magic that was used last night. I am pretty sure that who ever blocked me was the Mafia roleblocker. So, with sandsofts list I am pretty for sure we could catch them today.
Cropcircle's argument is a little weird. I can follow the logic(it is logical btw), but I need to think if it has merit.
It should be pretty apparent to you guys that CC lied. It is overwhelmingly more likely.
when you first brought it up, I agree. But I thought some about it as I was making my comments and something struck me as odd.
I want to hear something on the topic from CC and then I will voice my concern.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Final Fantasy VII Mafia
Hamlet Mafia*
Hollywood Mafia 2
Insane Asylum*
24 Salvation Code
Random Mafia 3*
Matrix Mafia
Coldwar Mafia*
View Askew Mafia
Warcraft III Mafia
Hollywood Mafia*
Romance of the Three Kingdoms Mafia
Star Trek Mafia
Douglas Adams Mafia
Sin City Mafia
World Domination Mafia 2
Random Mafia 2
High School Mafia
Random Mafia
What do the above twenty games all have in common?
They are all games that have had multiple roleblockers.
Seriously, Cyan, I can only imagine you are intentionally being dense.
As for the flavor of the roleblock being the same as mine in Hollywood 2: Uhhh, yeah, it's only like the most common flavor for a roleblock. Hollywood 1 & 2, High School, Song of Fire and Ice, Dollar...just off the top of my head. Pretty sure I've seen role guides that describe the Roleblocker as "Prostitute" or "Escort" or something like that.
As for the non-magic abilities, we've already seen someone killed by a dagger. You don't have to take my word on it, that's public info right there. Sure, it could have a magic dagger, but if you're seriously going to suspect me for something as weak as that, you deserve to be wrong.
I've commited to the information that there are non-magic abilities, if we go a few more days without seeing the effects or a claim of any, then you might have reason to suspect.
@Vamp: "I have role based info" means just that. I have info based on my role, not at all related to the roleblock and not at all related to the death scene, that there are non-magic abilities in the game.
Didn't seem particularly relevant yesterday, but with SSB claiming to be able to track magic, I thought I should bring it out so we don't go clearing or damning people based on the idea that "didn't use magic" instantly means "didn't use an ability."
[The Family]
[The Family]
Sitting on the fence? You don't want him to die, but you do want him to die, but you really don't want him to die?
You've been voting Jql but then jump on Wuffles. After saying you don't want to see him lynched. You say you and JQ have the same but you've been voting her? Here she says...
But you say its not normal. Jql as town doesn't have a problem with it.
Here to me it looks like your trying to find out who killed Dagger 'cause as scum you want to find your next target.
Vote JodoYodo
They hate us cause they ain't us.
The Mafia NK being performed in a non-magic sense is not, even a little bit, the same as people's standard abilities being magical/not. In *this game*, all of the evidence that we have points to people's inherent abilities being magical. This is particularly evident with the concept of Burnout.
Also, I find it fascinating that you focused on the *least* relevant point that was brought up against you, and completely ignored everything else.
Also, nice strawman.
This is nonsense. Roleblocks are, almost always, in flavor with the theme of the game. 'A prostitute' is very obviously not the 'most common method'. And in a game like this one, prostitution is extremely unlikely to be RB flavor.
This is particularly relevant because the flavor that DV claimed for the RB against him is EXACTLY what you would expect in this type of game. Are you really trying to argue that there is going to be one magical RB, and one non-magic one? Why would that possibly be the case? It's pointless.
I hardly focused on that point. And all the points are completely stupid. You're smearing.
If you're looking for a proper response, you'll need to elaborate on how that is a strawman.
You're doing nothing but gaming the mod.
It's not pointless. SSB has already claimed an ability that specifically interacts with Magic abilities, so abilities that get around that, or whatever else interacts specifically with Magic, would not be "pointless."
And you, sir, came at me because of a "counterclaim." The focus of this discussion, which I debunked in my last post, that there can only ever be one roleblocker in a game of mafia, you completely ignored. Explain that.
[The Family]
And if she showed up scum you'd be accusing me of defending a scum buddy.
I know some people dislike how I try to defend people I think are town. But I dislike mislynches, so you're just going to have to deal with it.
But, I wanted to vote him.
I was just upset that the behavior-based wagon fell apart, and then was replaced with a claim-based wagon.
What? Are you intentionally misrepresenting me here?
I never wanted to do the mass claim. It would be bad this early. I was simply pointing out that it wouldn't be as bad as usual, not that it would be good or something we should do.
-Not if there are roles that interact differently with physical and magical abilities. For example, SSB's claimed ability couldn't detect a physical roleblock. In that case, having two different types of roleblocks makes a lot of sense. I believe CC here.
No, it does not. The mafia kill is almost always treated as a seperate ability. For example, even in flavor heavy games, the kill is just the kill. It doesn't matter which mafioso is performing it.
You absolutely focused on that point. And dismissing the other points as 'completely stupid' is nonsense. So the fact that all of your posts have been spam one-liners is stupid? Or how you have entirely dodged all of the major conversations that have occured thus far? That's stupid too?
Incorrect. It is not gaming the Mod to say that RBs are, typically, flavorfully accurate. Look back at the games that you provided, the examples are all there.
Also running the 'gaming the Mod' excuse without providing any reasoning as to why is extremely weak.
Right. Because, when you stated that you were RBed, you didn't want us to automatically assume that it was scum that RBed you? Of course you were open to the possibility that you might have been RBed by a townie. That's why you said as much, right? Oh wait, that didn't happen. You put forth your claim because the natural assumption people are going to make in a situation like that is that you were RBed by a scum. DV shattered that. Hence, in every practical sense, you were counterclaimed.
How do you know what SSB's ability(I like how you refer to it as a claimed ability, trying to take away from the validity of it) can or cannot do?
I like how you are extrapolating that having different types of RBs 'makes alot of sense'(when in fact, it makes no sense whatsoever), when you're forced to start off with the assumption that the game has ANY non-magical abilities(once again, the mafia NK does not count; it never does), despite the fact that there is no basis for thinking that there are non-magic abilities in this game.
I think what is really happening is that you just want to back up CC here, and tried to build a case around doing so that ultimately concludes with you 'believing him'.
And furthermore, Vampyr is right. You liked being on the Wuffles' wagon when it was behavior based, because, as scum, this doesn't make you look bad. When you rejoined it, you were simply trying to play both sides of the fence. You wanted Wuffles to get lynched, but you also wanted to A)distance yourself from his wagon and B)attack the people that had joined it(which is also really just distancing yourself from it). If you really thought that there behavior in joining was so contestable, you would have acted differently.
Ultimate conclusion(s):
Still of the opinion that CropCircles is scum. Along with JodoYodo. And TFF as well. Not completely sure on TFF, and more information(night actions, etc) could provide clarity in regard to CC. Knowing JY's alignment would also provide information on both of the other 2, based on their interactions. Unvote, Vote JY
I don't know what it can actually do, I only know what SSB says it can do (hence me referring to his "claimed ability" AKA the ability he claimed to have). And no, I'm not taking validity away from anything; I believe his claim, as much as I can believe any claim that isn't mod confirmed.
Just because you have no basis for thinking that there are non-magic abilities, doesn't mean such a basis doesn't exist.
I love Cyan-logic.
A) I joined the wagon (this is the opposite of distancing).
B) I never attacked the wagon (this is the opposite of attacking).
And do you know why I acted differently than I would have if I thought their behavior was contestable? -Because I didn't think there behavior was contestable. Screwing up a claim is a perfectly valid reason for voting someone. It just made me sad that a perfectly good behavioral case wasn't enough (okay, maybe it wasn't perfectly good, since wuffles was town, but even solid behavioral analysis is no match for hind sight).
No look-back for now. Will do so probably Monday.
This isn't a terrible point. But I can't really think of what would be a more flavorfully accurate physical roleblock for this game.
No, distancing is exactly what you did. You were on the wagon, but tried to decry some aspect of it. This is distancing.
You lamented about it people not joining it based on behavior but only based on his claim. This is the same thing.
Way to contradict what you just said.
The point is that, most likely, there IS NO physical RB, CC just made up an RB, and used the flavor most convenient to himself.
Wrong.
I never decried anything. I never said reason 'B' was a bad reason to be on the wagon, I was simply saying that I wished reason 'A' was enough.
And lament is a very inappropriately strong word. You're looking for something closer to "slight disappointment." And yes, it disappoints me when players ignore behavior and mindset in favor of things like PM wording.
It's possible there isn't a physical RB, but it's not impossible or even unlikely that there is. -The fact that he claimed a non-magical RB is in no way proof that he's lying. And all things considered, a pair of different RB's makes sense. And I see no reason to distrust CC here.
Here is another question for you. Do you think that people with physical abilities don't have Burnouts? I mean, they really can't. It doesn't track that a person would have one physical ability, and still have a burnout..because those people would NOT become Vanilla when their burnout is used, which works against the theme of the game itself.
So, if you assume that people with physical abilities don't have burnouts..how many do you figure there are? Why would a Mod create an underlying theme like 'Burnout', and then just make a bunch of roles that can't interact with it? I mean seriously. Burnout is so important to the game itself that the Mod gives all of the Vanillas flavor as to *why they don't have one*.
Furthermore, why would a Mod make abilities like 'detect magic', and then make physical abilities that just bypass this? *Especially* when someone's burnout is a mass detect magic. That's like 'hey here's this cool ability. Oh but wait, it doesn't work on a bunch of players. gotcha'. It's not going to happen. It didn't happen.
This game has no physical abilities. CC lied, and he is busted. It is time for action against him to move forward.
I don't intend to waste any more breath on this arguement so long a Cyan is the only one voting me, and most everyone else responding seems to see his case as bull. Espiecially seeing as I have to be to work in an hour.
If anyone else has anything they want me to respond to, it's likely I missed things in the wave of mod-gaming BS that Cyan spouted at me, just me point me toward it and I will.
[The Family]