AE: if you do NOT claim, we WILL lynch you.
If you DO claim, then we MIGHT NOT lynch you.
The logic seems obvious.
BC: I don't see how CC is overracting; to lynch someone who could have some information without them revealing it is a bad idea. Given how the last 3 votes came in a short space of time gives more weight to CC's actions.
You recent actions, BC, have not aided your image.
Judge Judy can teach us all a valuable lesson about Mafia. She likes to say "If it doesn't make sense, it probably isn't true." And the bolded part of your post does not make sense.
I want to know what doesn't make sense. I was fishing for reactions. I caught a couple. If a Townie got lynched in the wake of it all, so be it.
Let me make sure it's understood that I said overacting, NOT overreacting. The overall tone of CC's post seemed put on, the type of forced post scum tend to make. I particularly narrow in on the "HOLD IT."
I also just now noticed ced's response after mine. Queue him up after CC.
Then you come out with this gem: "We're ahead, and a townie lynch doesn't hurt us to begin with." Why would you ever say this? You are indicating here that you're not willing to wait and find out how AE answers, which might clear his name, and that you'd rather vote him before he is confirmed as scum regardless of the possiblity of losing a townie, just because we are winning at the present moment.
AE is not the cop or doctor - he'd have tucked tail and turned his role over by now. Those two roles are the only ones I'd really rather not have the potential to lose. So, in my eyes we lynch either a Townie or scum, both certainly preferable to doctor or cop.
Also, I'd remind all this is Day 1. No matter what arguments you think you have, they're probably wrong until we have some solid evidence, like voting patterns from a lynch. We have someone refusing to admit to being a power role. Seems like a pretty simple case for a lynch to me.
After rereading post-daykill, nothing else besides the AE stuff is of much note to me. The first two reaction posts might need a lookover after Today.
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Honestly, please start answering like you belong here. This kind of attitude is not conducive to town play. I don't want to reference games in progress, but I played with this guy LampDwellr not so long ago....
Try this post again, except actually answer what I asked you, and leave the attitude out. You can be brief in your answers. I didn't ask you to write an essay. Just actually answer instead of being flippant.
Oh gee Zindabad uses my kick ass attitude as a convenient smokescreen to not answer anything I've asked of him. And then he accuses me of not answering him!!!
I expect yoiu'd be inclined to say "po-tay-toe" there had you been town. It's a minor language tell, and that's attempting a bad meta defense.
You're right, I only say that when I'm scum. I say it as scum because when I'm scum, I feel compelled to leave hints to my true alignment behind for no good reason whatsoever. That's a lot more believable than my utterly ridiculous defense of my choice of words not being identical to everyone else's. I give up, lynch me.
You aren't properly analyzing his attacking post then. Whatever Frenger was trying to do, the read I get from the post indicates that he genuinely supported the wagon. That doesn't tell us anything, until LatD turned up scum, at which point it became a strong indication that Frenger pushed the wagon because he thought that LatD was scum, as opposed to a scum motive (which would be pushing for a mislynch). Frenger did not make that push in a bussing fashion.
See, useless posts like this are why I hate unnecessary verbosity. Since your entire argument here centers around your read of genuity, to anyone with a different point of view it's a complete waste of time.
And the fact that both you and Zindabad opposed the LatD wagon doesn't make that pot kettle?
Doesn't make what pot kettle? The post where I attacked him for opposing the LatD wagon? If it weren't for the fact that there is no such post, then yes, it would be pot kettle.
Refusing to expand points, refusing to answer questions, and refusing to provide any sort of observations or content in your posts, however, is a very anti-town action.
Well I guess it's awesome that I haven't done any of those things then, isn't it?
Sarcastic one-liners are thin, vague and minimal, and are therefore bad, as they help very little. You don't have to write mini-essays for each response, but please provide something that can be understood and analyzed.
Sarcastic one-liners can be understood and analyzed. For example, the above one-liner. I realize that you made that point under the impression that I have done those things. I replied by pointing out the fact that I have expanded all points when asked, answered all questions, and have provided content. Just because I did so in a brief and self-amusing manner doesn't instantly make it beyond analysis.
And no, I'm not going to say more than what I feel is necessary to get my point across. If everyone said everything that they felt could potentially be requested, games would wind up longer than the entire wikipedia. Seriously. Just ask me whatever you think I need to say more about.
However, your vote/FoS on Zindabad, which is what was originally labelled as baseless, did have very little base. It was off of Zindabad stating that he thought that the dayvig was a bad idea, albeit with the desired results. You jumped on it, stating that you thought that scum motive drove the comment (itself a weak accusation), and waved off Zindabad's explanations with one liners.
So, no base.
WRONG WRONG WRONG. First of all, I can't simultaneously have "very little base" and "no base". I either have base or I don't, PERIOD, END OF DISCUSSION.
Secondly, it's not that Zindabad said the dayvig was a bad idea. If Milldawg announced he was considering dayvigging, I probably would have been against it too. My point is that he maintained his pro-LatD position, after LatD was scum.
But most importantly, my point isn't baseless, or very little based, or whatever your inconsistent criticism of it is. I've personally witnessed a CONSISTENT pattern of absurd defiance of unambiguous facts coming from scum. So, strong base. And even for the rest of you may not have witnessed such a pattern, there's logic behind it: townies do not have any reason to defend known scum. Please tell me why, if you thought someone was town and they turned up scum, you would stand behind your arguments that they were town. You wouldn'tt stand behind them, because you now KNOW they are wrong. The reason scum have for maintaining a wrong position is a little more confusing, I'd imagine, but I pointed that one out a while ago. (And not even in sarcastic one liner form, for those of you who need everything to be hit-you-in-the-head obvious.)
Also, I realized I wasn't hammering - I went back and counted. I posted as I did to see the way players reacted to my post. Your post is not so bad, if patronizing (but whatever, meh). But, CC's to me feels like the classic overacting of a scum. Given my previous suspicious of him, I could also vote him today.
In all my years of playing mafia, I've very rarely ever seen someone actually do something scummy to try and get reactions. I have, however, seen scum use it as an excuse to explain away a slipped tell. And the OMGUS nature of it is noted.
I hereby retract my earlier statement that BC is town. I'll be tempted to look into him once we've reached a verdict on AE.
I want to know what doesn't make sense. I was fishing for reactions. I caught a couple. If a Townie got lynched in the wake of it all, so be it.
What doesn't make sense is you claim to have performed an overtly scummy action as a townie in order to gauge opinion. It just doesn't add up. Nobody who plays in a pro-town manner does these things.
Quote from bigcountry »
Let me make sure it's understood that I said overacting, NOT overreacting. The overall tone of CC's post seemed put on, the type of forced post scum tend to make. I particularly narrow in on the "HOLD IT."
I stand corrected.
Quote from bigcountry »
I also just now noticed ced's response after mine. Queue him up after CC.
AE is not the cop or doctor - he'd have tucked tail and turned his role over by now. Those two roles are the only ones I'd really rather not have the potential to lose. So, in my eyes we lynch either a Townie or scum, both certainly preferable to doctor or cop.
Also, I'd remind all this is Day 1. No matter what arguments you think you have, they're probably wrong until we have some solid evidence, like voting patterns from a lynch. We have someone refusing to admit to being a power role. Seems like a pretty simple case for a lynch to me.
After rereading post-daykill, nothing else besides the AE stuff is of much note to me. The first two reaction posts might need a lookover after Today.
You reiterate again in this post how you don't care whether you hit a townie or not. I just cannot fathom how you would rather rush into a lynch without the entire picture and risk losing a townie rather than just wait a little while, see how someone answers, and then take action, avoiding the mislynch.
"We could lynch scum or town" - yes, this is obvious.
"I'd rather lynch scum or vanilla town than doc or cop" - equally so.
But your logic is missing an extrapolation. The third step is "I'd rather lynch scum than vanilla town, doc, or cop." And so we should wait for AE's response in order to increase our chances of doing so.
Well I guess it's awesome that I haven't done any of those things then, isn't it?
Sarcastic one-liners can be understood and analyzed. For example, the above one-liner. I realize that you made that point under the impression that I have done those things. I replied by pointing out the fact that I have expanded all points when asked, answered all questions, and have provided content. Just because I did so in a brief and self-amusing manner doesn't instantly make it beyond analysis.
The problem you are experiencing is that you may satisfy yourself with your content-less answers but you do not satisfy anyone else, and I'm afraid Mafia is a multiplayer game in which the other players can kill you if they don't like what you say.
Take your above one-liner. You claim you don't think you're guilty of ced's accusations. Good for you. But your response goes no way towards proving it so. You don't provide any supporting evidence except "I'm right, you're wrong."
Look at it this way. You are on trial for shoplifting. The prosecutor says "Zak has shown a reckless disregard for the property of other people, has committed other crimes of this nature before, and has a psychological pattern lending itself to shoplifting, as shown by the testimony of my witnesses, these criminal records, and the analysis performed by the state psychiatrist."
You respond, "Well I guess it's awesome that I haven't done any of those things then, isn't it?" The prosecutor asks, "How's that? Do you have any evidence to the contrary?" And you respond..."I don't need to, I answered the question and I did it in a brief and self-amusing manner." How do you think that will go over with the court?
Your every statement and action is on trial here too. Provide content when you post, provide evidence when you make statements of fact or even opinion, otherwise you will find yourself quickly marginalized if not killed off.
In all my years of playing mafia, I've very rarely ever seen someone actually do something scummy to try and get reactions. I have, however, seen scum use it as an excuse to explain away a slipped tell. And the OMGUS nature of it is noted.
I hereby retract my earlier statement that BC is town. I'll be tempted to look into him once we've reached a verdict on AE.
In all my years of playing mafia, I have seen it happen. I've seen fake copclaims (by Townies) net more than one scum in the wake of voting and unvoting that followed. I can go on with the list of "scummy" (according to you guys) plays I've witnessed that have won Town games, if you'd like.
Tells are only useful when seen in the certain contexts that jeep (or whoever's notebook you are reading from) catalogued them. I've seen from the players in this game a bunch of forcing their alleged "tells" onto situations that probably aren't applicable. If you think it's legit, I guess go for it because the one thing Town needs more than anything else is participation; I just don't agree with a lot of the tell-using we've had this Day.
And now, I don't see the big tadoo about my vote anyway. If it were the hammer, then I could see the fuss. L-1 is just a more pressure-filled L-2.
Finally,
Quote from zindabad »
But your logic is missing an extrapolation. The third step is "I'd rather lynch scum than vanilla town, doc, or cop." And so we should wait for AE's response in order to increase our chances of doing so.
OK yes, I do want to lynch scum if possible. I'm just not going to believe a claim of plain "townsperson" from AE as it stands with his previous actions.
I've also already stated that I don't think we're getting any more out of AE. We've asked a claim of him for the past 3 or more pages (over however many days that is) and we've been given a broken record routine.
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Wow, a lot going on here. I now have no idea what bigcountry is up to, since he's so experienced he's impossible to read. If he were a noob, he would be much more suspicious. Meanwhile, I am willing to believe Archamage's claim, for now, and focus on someone else. EvilZak strikes me as very annoying, whether or not he's innocent. I don't like players like that; you're certainly not going to convince anyone of anything by being a jerkface. As for everyone else, I have no idea. I do agree with bigcountry in that "tells" are overrated, especially since I am awful at reading them, but everyone is friggin EQUALLY SUSPICIOUS. Pretty much everyone has suspected everyone at some point. We just have to do something already and get it over with. But what to do, I don't know.
Fine, town doc. I did not want to reveal as now I will have a hard time figuring out how to protect. There you have it. Now what do we do?
That's funny, I thought CC just wanted you to confirm that you are a town power role. If you really are the doc it was a terrible play to reveal that.
And, of course, if you really are the doc bigcountry is now in a lot of hot water. I'm going to give it a day or so to wait on the counterclaim before starting a new case.
@Milldawg: You don't really believe a guy who claims FoSes are worthless and that "L-1 is just a more pressure-filled L-2" is "so experienced he's impossible to read," do you?
The problem you are experiencing is that you may satisfy yourself with your content-less answers but you do not satisfy anyone else, and I'm afraid Mafia is a multiplayer game in which the other players can kill you if they don't like what you say.
Take your above one-liner. You claim you don't think you're guilty of ced's accusations. Good for you. But your response goes no way towards proving it so. You don't provide any supporting evidence except "I'm right, you're wrong."
Look at it this way. You are on trial for shoplifting. The prosecutor says "Zak has shown a reckless disregard for the property of other people, has committed other crimes of this nature before, and has a psychological pattern lending itself to shoplifting, as shown by the testimony of my witnesses, these criminal records, and the analysis performed by the state psychiatrist."
You respond, "Well I guess it's awesome that I haven't done any of those things then, isn't it?" The prosecutor asks, "How's that? Do you have any evidence to the contrary?" And you respond..."I don't need to, I answered the question and I did it in a brief and self-amusing manner." How do you think that will go over with the court?
Your every statement and action is on trial here too. Provide content when you post, provide evidence when you make statements of fact or even opinion, otherwise you will find yourself quickly marginalized if not killed off.
And where your example breaks from what's actually occurred is that in the example, the prosecutor provided actual evidence of my guilt. Of course I'd take that seriously! If the prosecutor just said "Zak is a man of very few words, therefore he shoplifted" on the other hand, flippancy is the play.
Actually, if there is a counterclaimer, I think they'd be best served waiting for a day or two. Thoughts?
When there's likely to be three or more scum left, I might agree, but with two scum probably left, doc for scum is excellent. One scum has almost no room for maneuvering: fake power claims are just about suicidal, roles like roleblockers and trackers clear townies, and any subsequent power role with a guilty is free to just come out and claim FTW. Not to mention the enormous informational advantage of knowing two scum before even one town body has fallen. (And another advantage that I'm not going to reveal since it's much more likely to help if scum don't know about it.)
You don't seem to understand language tells. You don't mean to leave them, you write them because, if you’re hypothetically scum, you’re trying to act like you know nothing, when, infact, you know almost everyone’s alignment. They just slip through
Okay, so how, praytell, does the way I said I was suspicious of frenger indicate I know someone's alignment?
As a side note, please don't use color=black tags or whatever. I'm in the dark skin and it's just cruel.
You're calling my point "useless" and a "waste of time". Noted.
You're even questioning my read of genuinity, yet not giving any examples to the contrary and explaining your reading.
I don't think you understand how burden of proof works. I can't show any examples to the contrary of your read on frenger when I don't know how you came to the conclusion.
Umm, but that’s exactly what the sarcastic one-liners are…
GRAAAAH!!!!! I HATE THIS GARBAGE ARGUMENT SO DAMN MUCH! My one liners have made some damn good points, and the fact that they fail some stupid ass arbitrary verbosity threshold has NO BEARING ON THAT WHATSOEVER. PERIOD, END OF BLOODY DISCUSSION. This argument is just beyond stupid and I'm sick of it. In fact, from now on I'm not responding to any posts that have the word "one-liner" in them. Stop discussing my word counts and START DISCUSSING MY WORDS.
Please don't express your points in extremes. Just show your point, your reasoning, and examples if you need to.
My point is that, although I realize that the portion of my argument which I think would mollify me is often inadequate for others, I'm not a mind reader and I can't predict what others want out of me. If I make an inadequate post and someone tells me "Your argument fails because it's missing X" I can either provide X or accept I was wrong. But if I make an inadequate post and my only feedback is that I'm not writing enough, then I'm back to mind reading.
Incidentally, your post here is a good example of what I'm getting at. I knew precisely why you didn't accept my previous argument, and thus I knew how to clarify it.
My answer to all that:
Without using WIFOM logic, explain how that would possibly benefit his pro-scum agenda.
Scum strive to appear consistent, because inconsistency is one of the most common tells there is. It therefore happens from time to time that scum will, in the attempt to appear consistent, remain consistent on some point at a time when a townie is actually more likely to concede it. The argument that LatD should be defended is a clear example of such a point: the mod said he was scum, so no, he shouldn't be defended. That should be clear to any townie. But it wasn't clear to zindabad.
I admit you are correct in that my previous explanation of this phenomenon was fallacious. Egotistical townies? No, I don't know anyone like that
Zak, you don't have any points. Your idea of discussion is just to respond to questions by asking inane questions back and then try to get uppity when I, the original interlocutor, fails to answer them. This has happened in your disagreements with Samoht - who, incidentally, has now been absent for quite some time - and it is happening again.
If you're looking for actual evidence, refer to my post 315, in which I make several valid (and supported) points that you have failed to answer thus far.
I actually think you're town - everything about your responses signifies somebody new who's trying to act like he knows what he's talking about, up to and including aping my phrases like "aggro" and "with intent to vote" which aren't standard. I'm just trying to teach you how to play mafia since it's obvious you don't know and I don't want you to give false tells and get killed.
Well, I just reread the entire thread (well, skimmed mostly), but I got some significant vibes. Here are my thoughts on each player:
ARCHMAGE ETERNAL
I believe his claim that he's the town doctor, and although it's an unfortunate revelation to have had to have made, it at least reduces our chances of killing an innocent.
CROPCIRCLES
Strikes me as town fairly strongly.
CED395
Also strikes me as town.
SAMOHT
Probably town.
BIGCOUNTRY
Hard to tell since he has voted for pretty much everyone at some point, but leaning slightly toward town.
ECOPHAGY
Leaning slightly toward town, difficult to tell.
FRENGER/DRANITH
Has hardly posted. Leaning slightly toward town but difficult to tell.
EVILZAK
I don't like his posting style, but I can't hold that against him. I think he's probably town.
THEFALLENONE
Hasn't posted in a while, but his disagreements with players I have strong town vibes from makes him suspicious. He's second on my list, after...
ZINDABAD
He strikes me as the most suspicious currently. He's been fighting with EvilZak and accusing bigcountry, and trying to win people to his side. Right now I am willing to vote zindabad. If someone counterclaims doctor, it'll throw all my conclusions off, but until they do, zindabad becomes my prime suspect.
One of you is obviously scum. Given his past behavior and dodgy claim, it now becomes clear who it is.
Vote stands.
So if you are the doctor, BC, your gung-ho willingness to go after AE is explained. I'm not convinced AE being scum - which he is - positively names CC his scumbuddy, though. It's certainly a point against him though.
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As the debate over Archmage Eternal gets heated, he finally succumbs to pressure and claims, "I'm the doctor!"
Bigcountry jumps out of his seat and shouts, "Lies! Kill this impostor!"
A squad of marines enter the room and open fire, and it becomes apparent that Archmage Eternal is a Flood Combat Form Roleblocker [Elite]. As his body is destroyed, all are sent to their rooms for the night...
Night has begun. Any players with night actions, please pm them to me within 3 days.
"This is Cortana speaking. Earlier this morning, we have found Zindabad, UNSC Marine, Vanilla Townie, torn to nothing in his bed. Please carry out the democratic process without hesitation. We are looking into safely securing the rooms. Cortana out."
My list I posted right before night was in order of least suspicious to most suspicious. The one I listed least suspicious turned out to be infected, and the one I listed most suspicious turned out to be innocent. So I guess that means I should trust the OPPOSITE of my list, and suspect CropCircles. Everyone else is doing it.
My list I posted right before night was in order of least suspicious to most suspicious. The one I listed least suspicious turned out to be infected, and the one I listed most suspicious turned out to be innocent. So I guess that means I should trust the OPPOSITE of my list, and suspect CropCircles. Everyone else is doing it.
I'm still suspicious of The Fallen One though.
For what? if it was about not posting the 3 days before the lynch it was because I was pretty badly hung over from the 2 christmas parties I had, and I really didn't what to post with a massive headache and when I wasnt thinking straight.
If its about the not agreeing with people you "think", emphasis on think, are town, then thats not a very good reason, half the time town is arguin with town anyway.
I'd like to know what else I have done to make you suspicious of me, yet no one else.
I think EvilZak is looking more suspicious after pushing hard against Zindabad, Ced looks really scummy right now because of the vote after AE was already lynched, I'm sure Ced being the good player he is, would have read through the post carefully had he been town, its either a rare oversight or a scumtell, decide for yourself.
I have little internet access at the moment, so I'll have to keep my post brief.
I don't see how this applies.
AE was basically confirmed scum, and so the town's first interest should be lynching him. I was aware that the hammer might have been made, but it wouldn't hurt at all to put an extra vote on.
I didn't need to count up the votes carefully: you do that to avoid hammering. So, basically, I'm saying that it's neither a rare oversight or a scumtell.
For the interests of voting whilst away, I'll vote CropCircles.
I'll explain more fully when I get back. To put it simply, I feel that he played a more cautious playstyle after LatD was vigged. I'll post more reasoning when I get back (or I might remove the vote after a reread).
This is amusing.
I'd like to remind people that I voted AE first at post...*checks*...101. I then stayed there the entire day until he was forced to claim. I backed off only when he first hinted at being a power role, then resumed when he was unwilling to commit to it, then backed off to give him a chance to claim, after which he was lynched before I got back. I think I was pretty easily the number one supporter of his lynch, from very early in the day.
wait...what?
Why isn't BigCountry dead? surely the now-confirmed-townie doc should have beenm the obvious target? Followed perhaps by the also confirmed-townie-dayvig Milladwag.
This is either some bizzarre mafia plot to make us lynch BigCountry, or the remaining mafia were utterly terrified that Zindabad was the person most likely to unearth them.
We have a rather impressive margin of error, given that there is probably one scum left.
*will be rereading*
wait...what?
Why isn't BigCountry dead? surely the now-confirmed-townie doc should have beenm the obvious target? Followed perhaps by the also confirmed-townie-dayvig Milladwag.
This is either some bizzarre mafia plot to make us lynch BigCountry, or the remaining mafia were utterly terrified that Zindabad was the person most likely to unearth them.
We have a rather impressive margin of error, given that there is probably one scum left.
*will be rereading*
vote: Ecophagy - for the Night-time conjecture.
I'm almost certain we can get a block together and finish this game, if Milldawg still has kills left. If the cop has an innocent that isn't myself or Milldawg, that gives us 4 total innocent players left, versus 5 unconfirmed. Milldawg vigs someone that isn't us 4 and we lynch another. That leaves 4 confirmed and 3 unconfirmed. I'm protecting the cop no matter what, so we'll wake up probably 3 & 3. Then, with that last investigation, we can vig and lynch the last two unconfirmed players.
Of course, it requires Milldawg still having kills and a cop with a worthy investigative result.
Also, I guess it's possible Milldawg is a day-SK, but that can be sorted out in later Days.
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I don't know whether I'm even allowed to reveal (truthfully or not) whether or not I have multiple kills. I guess you guys will just have to find out the hard way
But yeah, it probably would be helpful to hear from the cop. If you (bigcountry) plan on protecting him no matter what, he shouldn't have anything to fear. Even if I don't have any more kills, it can't hurt to get two more confirmed innocents (or, of course, the third and presumably final killer). By the way, those with past experience in these games, how likely is it that there are only 3 killers? Is 3 the absolute standard in a 12 player game, or is it possible there might be more? (Of course, there could also be neutrals...)
@BC: I was unaware surprise at strange night actions was a scum tell >_>
@MillaDawg: You can indeed reveal how many shots you have, as well as your character & role name (should you choose to) as long as you do not directly quote your PM
@Evilzak: What? Day has only been going 2 days...
Seems awfully hasty of you...
BigCountry: The Cop claiming is an interesting idea -- with the roleblocker dead, and the doc (you) alive, we have last night and tonight's investigations (plus a cop) confirmed, reducing suspects by 3 by tomorrow. I think it is a rather good idea.
EBWOP: Currently, my suspicions are split between The Fallen One and EvilZak -- The former for getting on the LatD wagon late and jumping off early, and for basically ignoring AE. Both for sterring clear of voting for AE. That and gut.
EBWOP: Currently, my suspicions are split between The Fallen One and EvilZak -- The former for getting on the LatD wagon late and jumping off early, and for basically ignoring AE. Both for sterring clear of voting for AE. That and gut.
But I gave a reason for voting AE, I didn't just jump on the bandwagon like everyone else, I don't see how douing that made me more suspicious than the 2 other people who gave no reason >_>
Sorry about not posting, I got distracted, I don't have a good attention span and forget about things. Well, because I haven't had time to review this, he's at the top of the list for ced and because of the old tit for tat, I Vote: EvilZak.
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:symw::symb::symr:
I'm both a valiant and clever person; abrasive and quick-witted with my own unique set of standards. What I value in my life is autonomy, power, and righteousness; I do whatever I want so long as I fell that it is justified by my own principles, damn what others think. At my best I am glorious, exciting, and courageous; at my worst I am merciless, destructive, and violent.
Sorry about not posting, I got distracted, I don't have a good attention span and forget about things. Well, because I haven't had time to review this, he's at the top of the list for ced and because of the old tit for tat, I Vote: EvilZak.
So you weren't paying attention? I think that's the most plausible explanation for bigcountry not dying - the last remaining scum didn't notice that he was the doc. Vote stands.
That and it'd be suicide for the scum to fakeclaim/counterclaim (unless there is no cop...)
I am for the cop claiming;
Evilzak: Upon replacing in, the scum were not as a bad a position as they are now. They had at least 2 memebers alive. So I am not sure your point is entirely valid...
@Dranith: Actual validation of your vote would be nice (Y)
CropCircles, half the people here suspect you highly, and you finally post, only to ask a random question of EvilZak, ignoring all the accusations on you? I know you're probably BUILDING UP to something, but still. Come on. Vote CropCircles.
1) I support a Cop Claim, to build a townie block.
2) CC is a little disconcerting to me, his actions in the AE wagon were questionable, but already brought up(not trying to barn). Has been accurate on his Town call so far, possibly with inside information. Easy to say who's town when you know the answer already. I'm not sure i find him super scummy for not answering some of the accusations, and think milldawg is a little quick to vote, even though he's essentially confirmed town.
3) zindabad is the target? really? interesting mafia kill. not sure what to say about this. makes evilzak look bad, but it's pure WIFOM.
4) bigc was concerning me, but he's confirmed doc imo, so he's in the clear barring another counter claim.
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T2: Solar Flare
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T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
2009 NY States Top 8, 2010 NY States 2nd, 2011 NY States 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
There aren't a lot of votes out there yet. My vote is expected to change, I just thought SOMEone had to get the voting started. And I wanted to put pressure on CC to actually respond to the attacks.
CropCircles, half the people here suspect you highly, and you finally post, only to ask a random question of EvilZak, ignoring all the accusations on you? I know you're probably BUILDING UP to something, but still. Come on. Vote CropCircles.
Please point out the accusations I have not responded to, because I can't find them.
A few people listed me slightly high on their scum lists, but I can't possibly "respond" to that without an actual accusation.
Ced made an accusation, which I responded to, and he unvoted.
Are you referring to your own bit of logic that you were wrong yesterday, and therefor the fact that you thought I was town means that I'm mafia? Not sure how to respond to that other then pointing out that it simply doesn't make any sense.
It seems pretty obvious to me that zindabad was putting EvilZak under alot of pressure, and rather than thinking rationally and NK'ing BigCountry, he NK'd zindabad to relieve the pressure from himself, its the only reason why BigCountry would be alive.
I too want to hear a cop claim. Bigcountry is doctor, I'm not cop, and presumably ced isn't cop, Samoht isn't cop, and Ecophagy isn't cop, so that leaves CropCircles, EvilZak, Dranith, and TheFallenOne as possible cops. Which one of you is it?
Or, somebody else NKed Zindabad to try and set up a mislynch on EvilZak.
This. I'm still waiting on a response from EZ before I make a decision on him, but the above is a likely reason for zindabad's death.
I've kind of been on the fence about the cop claiming issue, but at this point with the number of people who we know are not it, we might as well have them claim. It's too likely the scum will be able to hit them tonight before they are able to reveal anything.
Evilzak: Upon replacing in, the scum were not as a bad a position as they are now. They had at least 2 memebers alive. So I am not sure your point is entirely valid...
When Dranith replaced in, AE was already being asked to claim. He wasn't dead yet, but the last scum had a pretty good idea that he was going to be.
It seems pretty obvious to me that zindabad was putting EvilZak under alot of pressure, and rather than thinking rationally and NK'ing BigCountry, he NK'd zindabad to relieve the pressure from himself, its the only reason why BigCountry would be alive.
Vote: EvilZak
Zindabad said he thought I was town, he was only upset at my playstyle. It was Ced that was attacking me yesterday.
When Dranith replaced in, AE was already being asked to claim. He wasn't dead yet, but the last scum had a pretty good idea that he was going to be.
About a year.
Zindabad said he thought I was town, he was only upset at my playstyle. It was Ced that was attacking me yesterday.
Barring a counterclaim, we have a townie 4 block, and we need to look elsewhere. personally, if he's scum he just handed the game over so i think we need to move on from there and assume truth until proven otherwise.
Ecophagy has been under the radar, never really getting any serious heat, though thats because he hasnt done much to call for it.
CC has explained himself well enough to me to consider he is town, but im still not sure.
Ced has been agressive, but again in a manner that i believe is town-like.
dranith has said nothing of import, so i can't get a read.
frenger has been the scummiest, but that's me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
T2: Solar Flare
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
2009 NY States Top 8, 2010 NY States 2nd, 2011 NY States 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
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AE: if you do NOT claim, we WILL lynch you.
If you DO claim, then we MIGHT NOT lynch you.
The logic seems obvious.
BC: I don't see how CC is overracting; to lynch someone who could have some information without them revealing it is a bad idea. Given how the last 3 votes came in a short space of time gives more weight to CC's actions.
You recent actions, BC, have not aided your image.
Let me make sure it's understood that I said overacting, NOT overreacting. The overall tone of CC's post seemed put on, the type of forced post scum tend to make. I particularly narrow in on the "HOLD IT."
I also just now noticed ced's response after mine. Queue him up after CC.
AE is not the cop or doctor - he'd have tucked tail and turned his role over by now. Those two roles are the only ones I'd really rather not have the potential to lose. So, in my eyes we lynch either a Townie or scum, both certainly preferable to doctor or cop.
Also, I'd remind all this is Day 1. No matter what arguments you think you have, they're probably wrong until we have some solid evidence, like voting patterns from a lynch. We have someone refusing to admit to being a power role. Seems like a pretty simple case for a lynch to me.
After rereading post-daykill, nothing else besides the AE stuff is of much note to me. The first two reaction posts might need a lookover after Today.
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
EBWODP: Meh, I meant something more like:
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
Oh gee Zindabad uses my kick ass attitude as a convenient smokescreen to not answer anything I've asked of him. And then he accuses me of not answering him!!!
You're right, I only say that when I'm scum. I say it as scum because when I'm scum, I feel compelled to leave hints to my true alignment behind for no good reason whatsoever. That's a lot more believable than my utterly ridiculous defense of my choice of words not being identical to everyone else's. I give up, lynch me.
See, useless posts like this are why I hate unnecessary verbosity. Since your entire argument here centers around your read of genuity, to anyone with a different point of view it's a complete waste of time.
Doesn't make what pot kettle? The post where I attacked him for opposing the LatD wagon? If it weren't for the fact that there is no such post, then yes, it would be pot kettle.
Even if you're right and my case on Frenger is bad, that doesn't make it nonexistant.
Well I guess it's awesome that I haven't done any of those things then, isn't it?
Sarcastic one-liners can be understood and analyzed. For example, the above one-liner. I realize that you made that point under the impression that I have done those things. I replied by pointing out the fact that I have expanded all points when asked, answered all questions, and have provided content. Just because I did so in a brief and self-amusing manner doesn't instantly make it beyond analysis.
And no, I'm not going to say more than what I feel is necessary to get my point across. If everyone said everything that they felt could potentially be requested, games would wind up longer than the entire wikipedia. Seriously. Just ask me whatever you think I need to say more about.
WRONG WRONG WRONG. First of all, I can't simultaneously have "very little base" and "no base". I either have base or I don't, PERIOD, END OF DISCUSSION.
Secondly, it's not that Zindabad said the dayvig was a bad idea. If Milldawg announced he was considering dayvigging, I probably would have been against it too. My point is that he maintained his pro-LatD position, after LatD was scum.
But most importantly, my point isn't baseless, or very little based, or whatever your inconsistent criticism of it is. I've personally witnessed a CONSISTENT pattern of absurd defiance of unambiguous facts coming from scum. So, strong base. And even for the rest of you may not have witnessed such a pattern, there's logic behind it: townies do not have any reason to defend known scum. Please tell me why, if you thought someone was town and they turned up scum, you would stand behind your arguments that they were town. You wouldn'tt stand behind them, because you now KNOW they are wrong. The reason scum have for maintaining a wrong position is a little more confusing, I'd imagine, but I pointed that one out a while ago. (And not even in sarcastic one liner form, for those of you who need everything to be hit-you-in-the-head obvious.)
Because I'm egotistical.
How is it not clear? Do you understand what the symbol ":" means?
I hereby retract my earlier statement that BC is town. I'll be tempted to look into him once we've reached a verdict on AE.
[The Family]
What doesn't make sense is you claim to have performed an overtly scummy action as a townie in order to gauge opinion. It just doesn't add up. Nobody who plays in a pro-town manner does these things.
I stand corrected.
You reiterate again in this post how you don't care whether you hit a townie or not. I just cannot fathom how you would rather rush into a lynch without the entire picture and risk losing a townie rather than just wait a little while, see how someone answers, and then take action, avoiding the mislynch.
"We could lynch scum or town" - yes, this is obvious.
"I'd rather lynch scum or vanilla town than doc or cop" - equally so.
But your logic is missing an extrapolation. The third step is "I'd rather lynch scum than vanilla town, doc, or cop." And so we should wait for AE's response in order to increase our chances of doing so.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
The problem you are experiencing is that you may satisfy yourself with your content-less answers but you do not satisfy anyone else, and I'm afraid Mafia is a multiplayer game in which the other players can kill you if they don't like what you say.
Take your above one-liner. You claim you don't think you're guilty of ced's accusations. Good for you. But your response goes no way towards proving it so. You don't provide any supporting evidence except "I'm right, you're wrong."
Look at it this way. You are on trial for shoplifting. The prosecutor says "Zak has shown a reckless disregard for the property of other people, has committed other crimes of this nature before, and has a psychological pattern lending itself to shoplifting, as shown by the testimony of my witnesses, these criminal records, and the analysis performed by the state psychiatrist."
You respond, "Well I guess it's awesome that I haven't done any of those things then, isn't it?" The prosecutor asks, "How's that? Do you have any evidence to the contrary?" And you respond..."I don't need to, I answered the question and I did it in a brief and self-amusing manner." How do you think that will go over with the court?
Your every statement and action is on trial here too. Provide content when you post, provide evidence when you make statements of fact or even opinion, otherwise you will find yourself quickly marginalized if not killed off.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Tells are only useful when seen in the certain contexts that jeep (or whoever's notebook you are reading from) catalogued them. I've seen from the players in this game a bunch of forcing their alleged "tells" onto situations that probably aren't applicable. If you think it's legit, I guess go for it because the one thing Town needs more than anything else is participation; I just don't agree with a lot of the tell-using we've had this Day.
And now, I don't see the big tadoo about my vote anyway. If it were the hammer, then I could see the fuss. L-1 is just a more pressure-filled L-2.
Finally, OK yes, I do want to lynch scum if possible. I'm just not going to believe a claim of plain "townsperson" from AE as it stands with his previous actions.
I've also already stated that I don't think we're getting any more out of AE. We've asked a claim of him for the past 3 or more pages (over however many days that is) and we've been given a broken record routine.
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Wow, a lot going on here. I now have no idea what bigcountry is up to, since he's so experienced he's impossible to read. If he were a noob, he would be much more suspicious. Meanwhile, I am willing to believe Archamage's claim, for now, and focus on someone else. EvilZak strikes me as very annoying, whether or not he's innocent. I don't like players like that; you're certainly not going to convince anyone of anything by being a jerkface. As for everyone else, I have no idea. I do agree with bigcountry in that "tells" are overrated, especially since I am awful at reading them, but everyone is friggin EQUALLY SUSPICIOUS. Pretty much everyone has suspected everyone at some point. We just have to do something already and get it over with. But what to do, I don't know.
Hanna, Ship's Navigator - WU Enchantments Control
Wort, the Raidmother - RG Copy ALL the Spells!
Rakdos, Lord of Riots - BR Group Murder-Hug
Reaper King - WUBRG Token Copies
Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker - B Sacrifice Engine
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - BR Randomized Toolbox
Karametra, God of Harvests - GW Ramp
That's funny, I thought CC just wanted you to confirm that you are a town power role. If you really are the doc it was a terrible play to reveal that.
And, of course, if you really are the doc bigcountry is now in a lot of hot water. I'm going to give it a day or so to wait on the counterclaim before starting a new case.
@Milldawg: You don't really believe a guy who claims FoSes are worthless and that "L-1 is just a more pressure-filled L-2" is "so experienced he's impossible to read," do you?
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
And where your example breaks from what's actually occurred is that in the example, the prosecutor provided actual evidence of my guilt. Of course I'd take that seriously! If the prosecutor just said "Zak is a man of very few words, therefore he shoplifted" on the other hand, flippancy is the play.
When there's likely to be three or more scum left, I might agree, but with two scum probably left, doc for scum is excellent. One scum has almost no room for maneuvering: fake power claims are just about suicidal, roles like roleblockers and trackers clear townies, and any subsequent power role with a guilty is free to just come out and claim FTW. Not to mention the enormous informational advantage of knowing two scum before even one town body has fallen. (And another advantage that I'm not going to reveal since it's much more likely to help if scum don't know about it.)
Okay, so how, praytell, does the way I said I was suspicious of frenger indicate I know someone's alignment?
As a side note, please don't use color=black tags or whatever. I'm in the dark skin and it's just cruel.
I don't think you understand how burden of proof works. I can't show any examples to the contrary of your read on frenger when I don't know how you came to the conclusion.
GRAAAAH!!!!! I HATE THIS GARBAGE ARGUMENT SO DAMN MUCH! My one liners have made some damn good points, and the fact that they fail some stupid ass arbitrary verbosity threshold has NO BEARING ON THAT WHATSOEVER. PERIOD, END OF BLOODY DISCUSSION. This argument is just beyond stupid and I'm sick of it. In fact, from now on I'm not responding to any posts that have the word "one-liner" in them. Stop discussing my word counts and START DISCUSSING MY WORDS.
My point is that, although I realize that the portion of my argument which I think would mollify me is often inadequate for others, I'm not a mind reader and I can't predict what others want out of me. If I make an inadequate post and someone tells me "Your argument fails because it's missing X" I can either provide X or accept I was wrong. But if I make an inadequate post and my only feedback is that I'm not writing enough, then I'm back to mind reading.
Incidentally, your post here is a good example of what I'm getting at. I knew precisely why you didn't accept my previous argument, and thus I knew how to clarify it.
Scum strive to appear consistent, because inconsistency is one of the most common tells there is. It therefore happens from time to time that scum will, in the attempt to appear consistent, remain consistent on some point at a time when a townie is actually more likely to concede it. The argument that LatD should be defended is a clear example of such a point: the mod said he was scum, so no, he shouldn't be defended. That should be clear to any townie. But it wasn't clear to zindabad.
I admit you are correct in that my previous explanation of this phenomenon was fallacious. Egotistical townies? No, I don't know anyone like that
Maybe not, but I still have the feeling. Not that we'll ever know if zindabad keeps on ignoring my points altogether.
If you're looking for actual evidence, refer to my post 315, in which I make several valid (and supported) points that you have failed to answer thus far.
I actually think you're town - everything about your responses signifies somebody new who's trying to act like he knows what he's talking about, up to and including aping my phrases like "aggro" and "with intent to vote" which aren't standard. I'm just trying to teach you how to play mafia since it's obvious you don't know and I don't want you to give false tells and get killed.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
ARCHMAGE ETERNAL
I believe his claim that he's the town doctor, and although it's an unfortunate revelation to have had to have made, it at least reduces our chances of killing an innocent.
CROPCIRCLES
Strikes me as town fairly strongly.
CED395
Also strikes me as town.
SAMOHT
Probably town.
BIGCOUNTRY
Hard to tell since he has voted for pretty much everyone at some point, but leaning slightly toward town.
ECOPHAGY
Leaning slightly toward town, difficult to tell.
FRENGER/DRANITH
Has hardly posted. Leaning slightly toward town but difficult to tell.
EVILZAK
I don't like his posting style, but I can't hold that against him. I think he's probably town.
THEFALLENONE
Hasn't posted in a while, but his disagreements with players I have strong town vibes from makes him suspicious. He's second on my list, after...
ZINDABAD
He strikes me as the most suspicious currently. He's been fighting with EvilZak and accusing bigcountry, and trying to win people to his side. Right now I am willing to vote zindabad. If someone counterclaims doctor, it'll throw all my conclusions off, but until they do, zindabad becomes my prime suspect.
Hanna, Ship's Navigator - WU Enchantments Control
Wort, the Raidmother - RG Copy ALL the Spells!
Rakdos, Lord of Riots - BR Group Murder-Hug
Reaper King - WUBRG Token Copies
Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker - B Sacrifice Engine
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - BR Randomized Toolbox
Karametra, God of Harvests - GW Ramp
Consider this my official counterclaim. Sergeant Major Avery J Johnson, Doctor.
Die scum die.
Vote stands.
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
Vote stands.
So if you are the doctor, BC, your gung-ho willingness to go after AE is explained. I'm not convinced AE being scum - which he is - positively names CC his scumbuddy, though. It's certainly a point against him though.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Well, whatever. unvote, vote Archmage Eternal
L-1 I believe.
Hanna, Ship's Navigator - WU Enchantments Control
Wort, the Raidmother - RG Copy ALL the Spells!
Rakdos, Lord of Riots - BR Group Murder-Hug
Reaper King - WUBRG Token Copies
Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker - B Sacrifice Engine
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - BR Randomized Toolbox
Karametra, God of Harvests - GW Ramp
Vote Archmage Eternal
one way or the other, we caught a scum.
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
Bigcountry jumps out of his seat and shouts, "Lies! Kill this impostor!"
A squad of marines enter the room and open fire, and it becomes apparent that Archmage Eternal is a Flood Combat Form Roleblocker [Elite]. As his body is destroyed, all are sent to their rooms for the night...
Night has begun. Any players with night actions, please pm them to me within 3 days.
"This is Cortana speaking. Earlier this morning, we have found Zindabad, UNSC Marine, Vanilla Townie, torn to nothing in his bed. Please carry out the democratic process without hesitation. We are looking into safely securing the rooms. Cortana out."
----------------------
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
...and Happy New Year!
My list I posted right before night was in order of least suspicious to most suspicious. The one I listed least suspicious turned out to be infected, and the one I listed most suspicious turned out to be innocent. So I guess that means I should trust the OPPOSITE of my list, and suspect CropCircles. Everyone else is doing it.
I'm still suspicious of The Fallen One though.
Hanna, Ship's Navigator - WU Enchantments Control
Wort, the Raidmother - RG Copy ALL the Spells!
Rakdos, Lord of Riots - BR Group Murder-Hug
Reaper King - WUBRG Token Copies
Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker - B Sacrifice Engine
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - BR Randomized Toolbox
Karametra, God of Harvests - GW Ramp
For what? if it was about not posting the 3 days before the lynch it was because I was pretty badly hung over from the 2 christmas parties I had, and I really didn't what to post with a massive headache and when I wasnt thinking straight.
If its about the not agreeing with people you "think", emphasis on think, are town, then thats not a very good reason, half the time town is arguin with town anyway.
I'd like to know what else I have done to make you suspicious of me, yet no one else.
I think EvilZak is looking more suspicious after pushing hard against Zindabad, Ced looks really scummy right now because of the vote after AE was already lynched, I'm sure Ced being the good player he is, would have read through the post carefully had he been town, its either a rare oversight or a scumtell, decide for yourself.
Hanna, Ship's Navigator - WU Enchantments Control
Wort, the Raidmother - RG Copy ALL the Spells!
Rakdos, Lord of Riots - BR Group Murder-Hug
Reaper King - WUBRG Token Copies
Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker - B Sacrifice Engine
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - BR Randomized Toolbox
Karametra, God of Harvests - GW Ramp
I'd like to remind people that I voted AE first at post...*checks*...101. I then stayed there the entire day until he was forced to claim. I backed off only when he first hinted at being a power role, then resumed when he was unwilling to commit to it, then backed off to give him a chance to claim, after which he was lynched before I got back. I think I was pretty easily the number one supporter of his lynch, from very early in the day.
[The Family]
Why isn't BigCountry dead? surely the now-confirmed-townie doc should have beenm the obvious target? Followed perhaps by the also confirmed-townie-dayvig Milladwag.
This is either some bizzarre mafia plot to make us lynch BigCountry, or the remaining mafia were utterly terrified that Zindabad was the person most likely to unearth them.
We have a rather impressive margin of error, given that there is probably one scum left.
*will be rereading*
vote: Ecophagy - for the Night-time conjecture.
I'm almost certain we can get a block together and finish this game, if Milldawg still has kills left. If the cop has an innocent that isn't myself or Milldawg, that gives us 4 total innocent players left, versus 5 unconfirmed. Milldawg vigs someone that isn't us 4 and we lynch another. That leaves 4 confirmed and 3 unconfirmed. I'm protecting the cop no matter what, so we'll wake up probably 3 & 3. Then, with that last investigation, we can vig and lynch the last two unconfirmed players.
Of course, it requires Milldawg still having kills and a cop with a worthy investigative result.
Also, I guess it's possible Milldawg is a day-SK, but that can be sorted out in later Days.
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
But yeah, it probably would be helpful to hear from the cop. If you (bigcountry) plan on protecting him no matter what, he shouldn't have anything to fear. Even if I don't have any more kills, it can't hurt to get two more confirmed innocents (or, of course, the third and presumably final killer). By the way, those with past experience in these games, how likely is it that there are only 3 killers? Is 3 the absolute standard in a 12 player game, or is it possible there might be more? (Of course, there could also be neutrals...)
Hanna, Ship's Navigator - WU Enchantments Control
Wort, the Raidmother - RG Copy ALL the Spells!
Rakdos, Lord of Riots - BR Group Murder-Hug
Reaper King - WUBRG Token Copies
Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker - B Sacrifice Engine
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - BR Randomized Toolbox
Karametra, God of Harvests - GW Ramp
I'm pretty sure EvilZak is the last remaining scum.
Why aren't you posting? Are you giving up because the game's stacked against you?
Well, I know your wrong.
@MillaDawg: You can indeed reveal how many shots you have, as well as your character & role name (should you choose to) as long as you do not directly quote your PM
@Evilzak: What? Day has only been going 2 days...
Seems awfully hasty of you...
BigCountry: The Cop claiming is an interesting idea -- with the roleblocker dead, and the doc (you) alive, we have last night and tonight's investigations (plus a cop) confirmed, reducing suspects by 3 by tomorrow. I think it is a rather good idea.
My list would be very similar to ced's.
Hanna, Ship's Navigator - WU Enchantments Control
Wort, the Raidmother - RG Copy ALL the Spells!
Rakdos, Lord of Riots - BR Group Murder-Hug
Reaper King - WUBRG Token Copies
Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker - B Sacrifice Engine
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - BR Randomized Toolbox
Karametra, God of Harvests - GW Ramp
Correct, but he'll get one tonight as well basically guarenteed, as the roleblocker is dead and he'll get (hopefully) doc protection.
My list would be similar to Ced's, with CC lower down. Dranith posting would certainly be a boon.
But I gave a reason for voting AE, I didn't just jump on the bandwagon like everyone else, I don't see how douing that made me more suspicious than the 2 other people who gave no reason >_>
Vote: EvilZak.
I wasn't just talking about today. He hadn't posted at all since confirming he was replacing Frenger.
So you weren't paying attention? I think that's the most plausible explanation for bigcountry not dying - the last remaining scum didn't notice that he was the doc. Vote stands.
I am for the cop claiming;
Evilzak: Upon replacing in, the scum were not as a bad a position as they are now. They had at least 2 memebers alive. So I am not sure your point is entirely valid...
@Dranith: Actual validation of your vote would be nice (Y)
[The Family]
Hanna, Ship's Navigator - WU Enchantments Control
Wort, the Raidmother - RG Copy ALL the Spells!
Rakdos, Lord of Riots - BR Group Murder-Hug
Reaper King - WUBRG Token Copies
Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker - B Sacrifice Engine
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - BR Randomized Toolbox
Karametra, God of Harvests - GW Ramp
2) CC is a little disconcerting to me, his actions in the AE wagon were questionable, but already brought up(not trying to barn). Has been accurate on his Town call so far, possibly with inside information. Easy to say who's town when you know the answer already. I'm not sure i find him super scummy for not answering some of the accusations, and think milldawg is a little quick to vote, even though he's essentially confirmed town.
3) zindabad is the target? really? interesting mafia kill. not sure what to say about this. makes evilzak look bad, but it's pure WIFOM.
4) bigc was concerning me, but he's confirmed doc imo, so he's in the clear barring another counter claim.
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
Hanna, Ship's Navigator - WU Enchantments Control
Wort, the Raidmother - RG Copy ALL the Spells!
Rakdos, Lord of Riots - BR Group Murder-Hug
Reaper King - WUBRG Token Copies
Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker - B Sacrifice Engine
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - BR Randomized Toolbox
Karametra, God of Harvests - GW Ramp
A few people listed me slightly high on their scum lists, but I can't possibly "respond" to that without an actual accusation.
Ced made an accusation, which I responded to, and he unvoted.
Are you referring to your own bit of logic that you were wrong yesterday, and therefor the fact that you thought I was town means that I'm mafia? Not sure how to respond to that other then pointing out that it simply doesn't make any sense.
What else?
[The Family]
Vote: EvilZak
Unvote since I don't know if my vote is still standing, then vote: EvilZak
I too want to hear a cop claim. Bigcountry is doctor, I'm not cop, and presumably ced isn't cop, Samoht isn't cop, and Ecophagy isn't cop, so that leaves CropCircles, EvilZak, Dranith, and TheFallenOne as possible cops. Which one of you is it?
Hanna, Ship's Navigator - WU Enchantments Control
Wort, the Raidmother - RG Copy ALL the Spells!
Rakdos, Lord of Riots - BR Group Murder-Hug
Reaper King - WUBRG Token Copies
Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker - B Sacrifice Engine
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - BR Randomized Toolbox
Karametra, God of Harvests - GW Ramp
I've kind of been on the fence about the cop claiming issue, but at this point with the number of people who we know are not it, we might as well have them claim. It's too likely the scum will be able to hit them tonight before they are able to reveal anything.
[The Family]
When Dranith replaced in, AE was already being asked to claim. He wasn't dead yet, but the last scum had a pretty good idea that he was going to be.
About a year.
Zindabad said he thought I was town, he was only upset at my playstyle. It was Ced that was attacking me yesterday.
Barring a counterclaim, we have a townie 4 block, and we need to look elsewhere. personally, if he's scum he just handed the game over so i think we need to move on from there and assume truth until proven otherwise.
Ecophagy has been under the radar, never really getting any serious heat, though thats because he hasnt done much to call for it.
CC has explained himself well enough to me to consider he is town, but im still not sure.
Ced has been agressive, but again in a manner that i believe is town-like.
dranith has said nothing of import, so i can't get a read.
frenger has been the scummiest, but that's me.
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