I did not jump on the first thing I saw. Many posts were made before hand, and I responded to them in turn. I was the only one on at the moment aside from you and as such thought I'd ask you about it. And I don't think I ever really jumped on it. I had a problem with the post, I asked for clarification, and didn't get it. Asked again, got more information, along with a slew of attention that I feel was unwarranted.
Sorry for fighting back against a claim, I assumed that was how you played mafia. In the orginal post I wasnt defending anything, you tried to relate it to a post it had no relation to, you said that CC or BC were on to something (can't remember currently) yet they werent accusing me of anything, you came from no were and said my post was suspicious.
You were defending your joke post. One which you made after we established as a town that joke posts were not pro-town. i'm not the only one who found it fishy --- BigC also put it in one of his posts as something that could have merit if you turn out scum. Clearly I'm not the only one in this town who felt it was out of place. I see now that my reaction to it was not the best it could have been, and perhaps a simple "Noted." would have been sufficient, but I seem to recall being called a fence sitter for not taking stances. I made the decision to stand on that issue, and it didn't work out the way I wanted to.
BigCountry's post had no baring on what he actually thought, if you read it properly you would have seen that he said that if I was scum at the end of the game then he would go back and look at the posts, he didn't suspect me at all, you were the only one that thought that it was fishy.
The reason it didn't work out was because it was a terrible claim and you had nothing to back it up, it didn't just "not work" thats not the way things work.
I find it more amusing that in your tunnel visions OMGUS moments, you have completely disregarded LatD's absence and his previous posts.
I am completely aware of LatD's absence and his previous posts, I'm waiting for his answer, meanwhile I'm trying to see if you are scum, you are on top of my scum radar right now, but I am well aware of the situation.
Agreed. At first I was fairly certain Milldawg was town, but of late I haven't been getting that impression. Maybe a neutral(have these in newb games?) or scum...avoiding basic questions is a little scary to me.
This makes me think Samoht was only defending Milldawg just to "go with the flow". Samoht himself had said he thought the question was pointless, but when Milldawg basically agreed that it was pointless, it somehow caused Samoht to go from "fairly certain Milldawg was town" all the way to "Maybe a neutral ... or scum". That's a pretty big disparity over not answering a pointless question.
In regards to Ced: Promising an in-depth post later is a scum tell, as they usually paraphrase what someone else said...in essence, the post itself was innocuous, but his lack of a response of yet is somewhat disconcerting...I'd wager he just has not seen the question yet, but I would like a response to BigCountry's question:
How is it disconcerting for Ced to not have answered the question when he hadn't yet seen it? Did you expect him to answer it before he saw it?
I'm concerned that archmage + lost both attacked milldawg, when it seemed as if half the game had considered him a townie.
Is it bad manners to confirm a vote in the same post as the vote itself? Screw you, I'm doing it anyways. Confirm vote: Samoht.
Samoht attacked Milldawg in 73 (see the first quote of this post). But by 104 everyone had forgotten about that, and AE and LatD's attacks on Milldawg were fresh in people's minds, so Samoht decided attacking Milldawg is now a scumtell. If that's not proof that Samoht wasn't legitimately scumhunting, I don't know what is.
And that's on top of the oft-mentioned jump onto TFO's fake vig kill. If fake vig kills are so scummy why didn't you attack CC's fake vig kill? (Unless you thought it was real >.>)
Sorry for fighting back against a claim, I assumed that was how you played mafia. In the orginal post I wasnt defending anything, you tried to relate it to a post it had no relation to, you said that CC or BC were on to something (can't remember currently) yet they werent accusing me of anything, you came from no were and said my post was suspicious.
There seems to be confusion. Your first post that I brought attention to was a joke post. Again, I reiterate that I felt it to be unwarranted. I asked you about it, saying I felt it to be spotty, you retreated to the it's a joke post defense. That is all I'm claiming about your defense.
BigCountry's post had no baring on what he actually thought, if you read it properly you would have seen that he said that if I was scum at the end of the game then he would go back and look at the posts, he didn't suspect me at all, you were the only one that thought that it was fishy.
The reason it didn't work out was because it was a terrible claim and you had nothing to back it up, it didn't just "not work" thats not the way things work.
He never said in the end of the game, but in the end --- the difference being that you could be lynched before hand and thus give the town information. Information would only be available if something was telling about that very post.
I am completely aware of LatD's absence and his previous posts, I'm waiting for his answer, meanwhile I'm trying to see if you are scum, you are on top of my scum radar right now, but I am well aware of the situation.
I understand your sentiments, and am glad to see you're not turning a blind eye. Unfortunately, I think you're over-reacting to a mis-step from a beginner on day 1, and doing such in a very OMGUS manner.
This makes me think Samoht was only defending Milldawg just to "go with the flow". Samoht himself had said he thought the question was pointless, but when Milldawg basically agreed that it was pointless, it somehow caused Samoht to go from "fairly certain Milldawg was town" all the way to "Maybe a neutral ... or scum". That's a pretty big disparity over not answering a pointless question.
Fairly certain has all sorts of disclaimers built in, and maybe neutral/scum isn't that much of a stretch with a whopping 5 pages to build cases off of. Also the question might have been pointless, but it's lack of response isn't.
How is it disconcerting for Ced to not have answered the question when he hadn't yet seen it? Did you expect him to answer it before he saw it?
I clearly state that I would wager that he hadn't seen it - not that he hasn't. It's quite possible that he did see it, and was gauging how to best respond to the case while not replying in order to save himself from appearing more scummy by briefly answering + promising another in-depth post.
Is it bad manners to confirm a vote in the same post as the vote itself? Screw you, I'm doing it anyways. Confirm vote: Samoht.
Samoht attacked Milldawg in 73 (see the first quote of this post). But by 104 everyone had forgotten about that, and AE and LatD's attacks on Milldawg were fresh in people's minds, so Samoht decided attacking Milldawg is now a scumtell. If that's not proof that Samoht wasn't legitimately scumhunting, I don't know what is.
I didn't attack anyone...I simply stated that Milldawgs posts had a different vibe, one that wasn't as ardently town as it had been...In my book there are 11 possible scum members, and I'm not about to cross one off because he looked town in the beginning. I urge you to follow suit.
And that's on top of the oft-mentioned jump onto TFO's fake vig kill. If fake vig kills are so scummy why didn't you attack CC's fake vig kill? (Unless you thought it was real >.>)
Samoht lynch gogogo.
Pft. CC's fake vig kill was d1 and post 2 of the game. Not exactly a serious post, and clearly the point at which a joke vig is acceptable - and also amusing to me btw. However, on page 9 when we had been in the real game for 6+ pages, I think it was out of place. I still do, and am not entirely certain the "it's a joke" defense is the answer we need to swallow hook line and sinker. From the reaction of everyone else, it seems more like I'm being ostracized for saying something here...I think it was wrong and stand by it. That said, I feel LatD to be more scummy than TFE, and since have unvoted one for the other with the hope of garnering a response from LatD.
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Fairly certain has all sorts of disclaimers built in, and maybe neutral/scum isn't that much of a stretch with a whopping 5 pages to build cases off of. Also the question might have been pointless, but it's lack of response isn't.
So you're gonna try and hide behind the fact that your statements left you a little room for uncertainty? "Fairly certain" is a far far far cry from, for example, "leaning town" or "based on what I've seen so far". And you can put the emphasis of "maybe neutral/scum" on "maybe" all you want, but the context of 73 had the emphasis squarely on "neutral/scum". It wasn't a "be careful in assuming Milldawg is town" type thing, it was an attempt to cast suspicion on Milldawg. Hiding in uncertainty is scummy.
How is it out of the ordinary to not answer pointless questions?
I clearly state that I would wager that he hadn't seen it - not that he hasn't. It's quite possible that he did see it, and was gauging how to best respond to the case while not replying in order to save himself from appearing more scummy by briefly answering + promising another in-depth post.
Yes it was possible, but if you thought it was all that likely then you wouldn't have wagered against it. Again, hiding in uncertainty is scummy.
I didn't attack anyone...I simply stated that Milldawgs posts had a different vibe, one that wasn't as ardently town as it had been...In my book there are 11 possible scum members, and I'm not about to cross one off because he looked town in the beginning. I urge you to follow suit.
If you simply weren't ruling out the possibility that Milldawg is not town, that's what you'd have said. What you said is that you were actually starting to lean towards the possibility of him being not town.
And if you think we shouldn't rule out the possibility of him being scum, why did you jump on AE and LatD for attacking him?
Pft. CC's fake vig kill was d1 and post 2 of the game. Not exactly a serious post, and clearly the point at which a joke vig is acceptable - and also amusing to me btw. However, on page 9 when we had been in the real game for 6+ pages, I think it was out of place. I still do, and am not entirely certain the "it's a joke" defense is the answer we need to swallow hook line and sinker. From the reaction of everyone else, it seems more like I'm being ostracized for saying something here...I think it was wrong and stand by it. That said, I feel LatD to be more scummy than TFE, and since have unvoted one for the other with the hope of garnering a response from LatD.
What would TFE have gained from "Dak Kill"ing CC as scum?
If fake killing is scummy, why is it okay to do it on page 1? It's the random vote stage, not the get out of jail free card stage.
Sorry for not posting. Until I got prodded just now, I assumed I was dead. It never occurred to me that CC might have been lying about being the vig.
Unvote
Vote: CropCircles for lying
Reading the thread now.
To avoid confusion from now on, any daykill that is made that doesn't result in a DEATH SCENE from me is not a real daykill. I'm on most of the day, so I'll catch it. Thanks.
I still feel inclined to defend Samoht, despite his apparently suspicion of me. Maybe I'm just gullible, but I get the impression that he was merely a little careless. I think that rather than attempting to make weak attacks to appear as though he is legitimately hunting for mafia, he was attemping to make legitimate attacks on what he genuinely perceived as suspicious behavior, but since others did not perceive the behavior in the same way, they thought he was deliberately feinting. I don't think his crime is that of being mafia, but merely of misevaluating the evidence.
Then again, my gullibility and trusting nature have often led me astray before, so my "gut feelings" may not be particularly useful. But I'm just trying to point out a possibility that many of you seem to have overlooked.
No need for a prod, I'm right here. Bit of a different tactic from myself this game. Usually I come out guns blazing and target someone as soon as I join the game, so I decided to take it easy this time and see what developed.
I have to agree that Samoht is target #1 at the moment. His defense has been all around poor and his actions vis-a-vis Milldawg have done him no favors.
I'm still not ready to vote, as I think there's been a lot of noob overreaction so far and not so much actual scumminess, which is of course perfectly OK in a noob game.
AE has been very, very under the radar these last five pages, probably because he got himself into hot water last time he posted substantially. For me, though, his post 105 smacks of town. Scum might've gone over the top trying to make up a flowery defense against CC's scumhunting, but AE gives a typically noob town response.
Interesting to me is the Samoht-on-AE aggro though.
AE has been very, very under the radar these last five pages, probably because he got himself into hot water last time he posted substantially. For me, though, his post 105 smacks of town. Scum might've gone over the top trying to make up a flowery defense against CC's scumhunting, but AE gives a typically noob town response.
Interesting to me is the Samoht-on-AE aggro though.
This is :goodposting:.
I think you ought to post more though. You can still participate without becoming guns-blazing.
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I still feel inclined to defend Samoht, despite his apparently suspicion of me.
Generally, defending other people is not a great idea, you tend to get linked to them, and if they turn out scum, you look mighty suspicious. Tis best to let people fend for themselves generally.
Defending them in such an obvious way is less so, but the covert stuff/subtle defending (demonstrated helpfully by AE) is more scum-like
Oh?
1. How? You pondered whether my vote was "harsh". As far as I can tell, you tried to push me to unvote.
2. So, you're claiming attacking the attacker?
A bit of a bad defense there. Read the post that I quoted. yes, it was in the random stage, but the post in question was most certainly serious. He mistook the random vote for real pressure, but that isn't the problem. The problem is that he reacts badly and goes defensive, then plays the newb defense and tries to cover his tracks. It isn't much on its own, the Milldawg attack is of much more concern, but it's worth consideration on the back of additional evidence.
Mod: Zindabad could do with a prod too.
No not a push to your voteing nor am I attacking you, I'm trying to understand you. Is it not the fact that he defends but the depth he put into that defense?
AE has been very, very under the radar these last five pages, probably because he got himself into hot water last time he posted substantially
@Zindabad- You are right on the button. I jumped in trying to get things moving and got in deeper everytime so I backed away till you last few got in and started posting more.
AE has been very, very under the radar these last five pages, probably because he got himself into hot water last time he posted substantially. For me, though, his post 105 smacks of town. Scum might've gone over the top trying to make up a flowery defense against CC's scumhunting, but AE gives a typically noob town response.
Naaww, the blow off response is a non-tell. Means he didn't think I had a case, or the sinister approach, means he thought he could make it look like I didn't have a case.
His next response is more interesting...
Quote from Archmage »
I understand where CropCircles is coming from with me posting in a passive aggressive manner, I did not realize I was coming off that way.
...which is...not a defense. "I see where you're coming from, oops" doesn't make my case look worse. He pretty just admits that I'm right to think what I think.
Ok, I did a re-read, and firstly: Samoht is more scummy than i initally thought, so I am quite happy with a lynch on him or AE. I shall leave my vote where it is to stop an L-3, and because either is good.
I am not feeling terribly suspicious of Ced's play, and would be hesitant to lynch him.
milldawg is coming across rather town, as is TFO. I am not sure I can pass comment on BC and CC, but Bc seems the more town of the two.
come the weekend, posts for LatD would be lovely.
Not enough really to go on for evilzak, latd and zindabad, alignment wise.
Ok, I did a re-read, and firstly: Samoht is more scummy than i initally thought, so I am quite happy with a lynch on him or AE. I shall leave my vote where it is to stop an L-3, and because either is good.
Generally, defending other people is not a great idea, you tend to get linked to them, and if they turn out scum, you look mighty suspicious. Tis best to let people fend for themselves generally.
Defending them in such an obvious way is less so, but the covert stuff/subtle defending (demonstrated helpfully by AE) is more scum-like
If scum are more likely to defend a player who turns up scum, wouldn't you want scum to openly do it?
If scum are more likely to defend a player who turns up scum, wouldn't you want scum to openly do it?
Well, yes. But I figured that since this is a newb game, handing out nuggets of advice is a good thing.
Generally, the scum don't do what you want anyway. It'd be a bit easy if they did
Well, at this stage there isn't a great deal to go on.
you post #94 struck me as odd -- the jab at CC, and the "hmmm" doesn't sit well.
your response to CC vote on you (#105) was also jarring. I don't get why it is terribly humerous.
Perhaps it could just be a noob taking a vote a little too seriously, or a knee-jerk reaction to being voted, as it was clearly not over nothing.
Your post #159 seems pretty reasonable, however, as CC said, "oops, I agree" is not a great defence.
That's all the meaninful posts I could find.
Honestly, at this point of limited information you are one of the people who has posted some things which have caught my eye and made me pause. Along with Samoht. Hence the vote.
My finals run from today (this morning) through Tuesday. I'll stop in once a day, at the very least. Don't count on much more than that from me, though.
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Come to think of it, Frenger hasnt posted in awhile, I'd like to here is thoughts.
Samoht's random jumping with no eveidence and a terrible defence has him at the top of my list.
AE's posts have been reeking of noob, the only reason he is not on top of my list is becuase He might actually be nooby, samoht on the other hand, looks more experienced, so I am assuming he knows what he is doing.
bigcountry> I'm still waiting on lostandthedamned for his main post, as I've said many times. Until then, there's not much else for me to say. Once lostandthedamned explains why he voted to lynch me, I will get to voting, I promise
Hmmm, I saw Samoht lurking earlier, I'm actually suprised he didn't reply, you can't hide from accusations by lurking.
AE has posted nothing but questions in response, he just seems to be changing the subject.
I wasn't lurking. My computer is on 24/7 and it's default page atm is MTGSalv - Mafia because I'm in 2 games. I have finals this week, which you can verify if you check Batman...moreover, what do you want me to reply to, I've responded to the cases brought against me...I can't help it if you don't like my answers.
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I came down with a viral infection in my throat yesterday and didn't get out of bed, and then spent most of today at the doctors then sleeping. Hopefully I can enjoy my time off to be more active.
I am suspicious of Samoht, since he's continuing his attack on TFO, even though the reason he started it was a frivolous accusation. He keeps posting aggressively which I don't like very much. Maybe it's because I have a sort of 'sit back and think things through' approach to mafia as opposed to a 'vote now, then discuss' one that seems to be rather apparent in this game, but nonetheless I find his aggressive play scummy.
I also don't like AE's absence when put under pressure. Not posting in your defense doesn't help anyone's opinion of you.
Media is not making me steal. But in a way is like the story of the very hot girl with the short skirt teasing the old sick guy with a history of rape.
I am suspicious of Samoht, since he's continuing his attack on TFO, even though the reason he started it was a frivolous accusation. He keeps posting aggressively which I don't like very much. Maybe it's because I have a sort of 'sit back and think things through' approach to mafia as opposed to a 'vote now, then discuss' one that seems to be rather apparent in this game, but nonetheless I find his aggressive play scummy.
I honestly don't know what to make of this paragraph.
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Well, yes. But I figured that since this is a newb game, handing out nuggets of advice is a good thing.
Generally, the scum don't do what you want anyway. It'd be a bit easy if they did
When you tell them how to avoid suspicion, yeah it's easy.
I am suspicious of Samoht, since he's continuing his attack on TFO, even though the reason he started it was a frivolous accusation. He keeps posting aggressively which I don't like very much. Maybe it's because I have a sort of 'sit back and think things through' approach to mafia as opposed to a 'vote now, then discuss' one that seems to be rather apparent in this game, but nonetheless I find his aggressive play scummy.
What makes Samoht's aggressive play different from everyone else's aggressive play?
What makes Samoht's aggressive play different from everyone else's aggressive play?
Maybe becuase it was based on a stupid accusation? at least when someone else has made an agressive play they had a good reson for it, and no, "I think we are past the joke phase" is not a good reason. If your going to be agressive at least have evidence for the action.
Samoht's aggressive play is bad because he bases his accusations on nothing. It's not scummy if you aggressively attack someone when you have reason to do so. Samoht's reasoning however is based on TFO's joke post. If Samoht had a legitimate reason to attack TFO, I would not find his aggressive play scummy.
Media is not making me steal. But in a way is like the story of the very hot girl with the short skirt teasing the old sick guy with a history of rape.
bigcountry: Why this sudden turnaround of opinion on AE?
It wasn't a turnaround. At the time of that post, I felt the possible lynches would be between Samoht/ced/AE. As mentioned previously, I'll wagon anyone if it means we get some information, and I would rather it be one of Samoht or ced than AE.
Also - you guys really thought Samoht was being aggressive? :boggle:
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Firstly, I think Samoht is probably town. To me, he's been reading like overeager town. Also, I have a hunch that the "threat" he made earlier wasn't empty. He's 4th on the list only because there haven't been many noticably scummy players. There's quite a gap between 3rd and 4th.
TFO pinged my radar in the reread. He's gone through the game relatively unnoticed, seemingly trying to stay neutral on everything he can, and there's a lack of content in posts.
Quick PBPA (P is page not post here, on 40ppp):
Page 2: Said he doesn't agree with the case on me or CC, then plainsight lurks/pushes me for a response.
Page 3: Shares view on BC/CC, fence-sitting
Page 4: Becomes aggressive when poked by Samoht. Can he only have stances when he's handed them?
Page 5: Continues being aggressive at Samoht. Won't let go of the issue.
Also:
p2: I didn't you were scum but I wanted to see your reply before I could begin futher analyisis.
p3: Ok so its scummy to agree with someone.
p4: I smelled scum, I tried to prove scum, I didn't see anything really scummy until then.
p5: Agressive becuase I'm trying to see if he is scum, I'm not going to let go of the issue, its always going to be an issue until one of us dies, I'll let the issue fade into the background but just forgetting it seems foolish.
Still point-blank refuses to show opinions (of said LatD posts and responses in this example).
"meanwhile I'm trying to see if you are scum"
Is just... bad.
I didn't have a worthwhile opinion of LatD at the time, I was simply aware of him. I didn't know huntng for scum was just... bad
Then, at the end of the page, he tries to fence-sit on the AE issue. Finally, he makes a point on AE, but fails to either back it up it or logically explain why he finds what he does odd/scummy.
I will explain later, IIRC I posted that late at night and couldn't be bothered writing up a long reply.
My re-read start tonight at 8pm (GMT) NO EXCUSES, so I should have any questions answered before I go to sleep.
This was not done, and no one has even commented on it for two days. My vote resides on LatD, and I urge you all to follow suit - either provide real pressure or there will never be an answer.
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No, no longer. I'm content on how you've been posting.
My list goes Lost/Damned, EvilZak, Zindabad. All for lack of posts. Seem to be laying low, out of sight out of mind. Will they be doing their talking at night? I'm wondering. I think its time we start pushing the lynch.
Vote LostandtheDamned for not backing up his post/stalling.
I can understand (and respect) being busy this time of year working as a manager at a retail strore, but either you can make time for the game, or you should ask for a replacement.
I mean, I hate getting stuck up on lurkers, but I've seen many a game lost because the town talked themselves in circles while the scum lurked their way to the endgame.
Ok, I did a re-read, and firstly: Samoht is more scummy than i initally thought, so I am quite happy with a lynch on him or AE. I shall leave my vote where it is to stop an L-3, and because either is good.
This tweaks my radar.
How the hell does town win in a game of mafia like this? No-one knows who the cops are so how do you go about getting this "concrete evidence" without the cop getting Night Killed as soon as he reveals role. This is without the complications of the Insane, Paranoid or Naïve Cop variants. Being town like this would probably also lose heavily with a serial killer in the mix.
However much it's explained to you, you keep trying to fish for people to support the idea of a no-lynch and then pass it off as "new to the style of play" syndrome when challenged over it. This along with the previous stuff about role-playing, which would lead to an increased chance of scum being able to pick off power roles, leads me to believe you are scum hiding under
a cloak of newb.
UNVOTE: VOTE Milldawg
This post he says that since Milldawg wants some role-playing that that is him trying to pick off the power roles, which is pretty much nonsense, he only challenges Milldawg after someone else does and he fear mongers people by dropping the names of power roles.
I'd support your logic, if not your vote, if it was possible to be more of a newb at this than me.
I have played precisely no games of mafia before this one, so the idea of me trying to teach anyone anything is laughable.
I've read most of the recent games to try and get a handle on how to play and it seems that both the discussion of a no lynch first day and mass claims come up pretty much every time.
The other thing that has come up from reading is that people tend to look badly on claims of newbdom as a defence so I promise to try not to do that from now on as that discussion distracts from the process of finding scum.
This post he gets really defensive over a random vote, it could have been newbieness.
Quote from lostandthedamned »
Just had time to scan the thread this morning, and found out that people don't want me to do that. Now I’ve been called in to cover a shift for a slacker whose "gone sick" even though they were planning to go out drinking last night .
I realise this is a bad time for it as people are waiting on my responses but I’m going to have to re-read everything properly before I answer because I want to make a proper contribution.
My re-read start tonight at 8pm (GMT) NO EXCUSES, so I should have any questions answered before I go to sleep.
Here’s the post that really got the vote, he hasn’t contributed anything and he has promised to reply twice and hasn’t come through, it just seems like he is lurking to dodge replying until the focus is off him, I understand that real life can get in the way, but I would rather him respond when he posts instead of posting another “I’ll post when I have time” post. It just seems like he could have replied by now if he used the times he said that he’d post later to read the thread and respond to people, it just seems like lurking with an excise IMO.
I'm willing to give lostandthedamned as much time as he needs to make an adequate response. It's true the day has gone on for quite a while, but there's no need for a cruel ultimatum. There's no hard deadline, after all. His posts clearly indicate his desire to give a detailed response. Besides, he knows the rules; players who lurk excessively get punished. I'm willing to believe that he has a legitimate real-life excuse for having not posted yet, and I'm not going to condemn him merely for being busy. If he gets too busy to play, he'll either be modkilled or replaced, so there would be no point in wasating a lynch on him just because he's absent. It's true, as The Fallen One points out, that some of his other behavior has been questionable, but that's all the more reason we should want to hear from him. There's no need for impatience - after all, impatience leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate...leads to suffering. I mean, impatience leads to hasty decisions, hasty decisions lead to carelessness, carelessness...leads to defeat. We can't afford to act rashly, even on the first day. Let's give him a little more time.
This was not done, and no one has even commented on it for two days. My vote resides on LatD, and I urge you all to follow suit - either provide real pressure or there will never be an answer.
L followed by a negative number indicates how many votes from a lynch a person is. L-2 (two from being lynched) is the standard claim range. It is just a shorthand notation.
LatD's absence is starting to grate, with the weekend come and gone and no post, it seems unlikely we'll get much. Still, we can but wait.
The "name-dropping" in post 84 is a good example. Here he reads as someone who's just become interested in the game, researched it on MS through the flash tutorial, learned about all of the various roles, and is trying to apply this new knowledge.
I agree that promising a thorough post later is a classic scum tactic but it just doesn't seem to fit here and I think we should give him until his return. He can then decide if he's good to go on or if he will need to be replaced. But voting for someone in absentia, in a noob game on day 1, is a bad idea.
Glad to have you back.
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
Sorry for fighting back against a claim, I assumed that was how you played mafia. In the orginal post I wasnt defending anything, you tried to relate it to a post it had no relation to, you said that CC or BC were on to something (can't remember currently) yet they werent accusing me of anything, you came from no were and said my post was suspicious.
BigCountry's post had no baring on what he actually thought, if you read it properly you would have seen that he said that if I was scum at the end of the game then he would go back and look at the posts, he didn't suspect me at all, you were the only one that thought that it was fishy.
The reason it didn't work out was because it was a terrible claim and you had nothing to back it up, it didn't just "not work" thats not the way things work.
I am completely aware of LatD's absence and his previous posts, I'm waiting for his answer, meanwhile I'm trying to see if you are scum, you are on top of my scum radar right now, but I am well aware of the situation.
Vote: Samoht
This makes me think Samoht was only defending Milldawg just to "go with the flow". Samoht himself had said he thought the question was pointless, but when Milldawg basically agreed that it was pointless, it somehow caused Samoht to go from "fairly certain Milldawg was town" all the way to "Maybe a neutral ... or scum". That's a pretty big disparity over not answering a pointless question.
How is it disconcerting for Ced to not have answered the question when he hadn't yet seen it? Did you expect him to answer it before he saw it?
Is it bad manners to confirm a vote in the same post as the vote itself? Screw you, I'm doing it anyways. Confirm vote: Samoht.
Samoht attacked Milldawg in 73 (see the first quote of this post). But by 104 everyone had forgotten about that, and AE and LatD's attacks on Milldawg were fresh in people's minds, so Samoht decided attacking Milldawg is now a scumtell. If that's not proof that Samoht wasn't legitimately scumhunting, I don't know what is.
And that's on top of the oft-mentioned jump onto TFO's fake vig kill. If fake vig kills are so scummy why didn't you attack CC's fake vig kill? (Unless you thought it was real >.>)
Samoht lynch gogogo.
There seems to be confusion. Your first post that I brought attention to was a joke post. Again, I reiterate that I felt it to be unwarranted. I asked you about it, saying I felt it to be spotty, you retreated to the it's a joke post defense. That is all I'm claiming about your defense.
He never said in the end of the game, but in the end --- the difference being that you could be lynched before hand and thus give the town information. Information would only be available if something was telling about that very post.
I understand your sentiments, and am glad to see you're not turning a blind eye. Unfortunately, I think you're over-reacting to a mis-step from a beginner on day 1, and doing such in a very OMGUS manner.
Fairly certain has all sorts of disclaimers built in, and maybe neutral/scum isn't that much of a stretch with a whopping 5 pages to build cases off of. Also the question might have been pointless, but it's lack of response isn't.
I clearly state that I would wager that he hadn't seen it - not that he hasn't. It's quite possible that he did see it, and was gauging how to best respond to the case while not replying in order to save himself from appearing more scummy by briefly answering + promising another in-depth post.
I didn't attack anyone...I simply stated that Milldawgs posts had a different vibe, one that wasn't as ardently town as it had been...In my book there are 11 possible scum members, and I'm not about to cross one off because he looked town in the beginning. I urge you to follow suit.
Pft. CC's fake vig kill was d1 and post 2 of the game. Not exactly a serious post, and clearly the point at which a joke vig is acceptable - and also amusing to me btw. However, on page 9 when we had been in the real game for 6+ pages, I think it was out of place. I still do, and am not entirely certain the "it's a joke" defense is the answer we need to swallow hook line and sinker. From the reaction of everyone else, it seems more like I'm being ostracized for saying something here...I think it was wrong and stand by it. That said, I feel LatD to be more scummy than TFE, and since have unvoted one for the other with the hope of garnering a response from LatD.
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
So you're gonna try and hide behind the fact that your statements left you a little room for uncertainty? "Fairly certain" is a far far far cry from, for example, "leaning town" or "based on what I've seen so far". And you can put the emphasis of "maybe neutral/scum" on "maybe" all you want, but the context of 73 had the emphasis squarely on "neutral/scum". It wasn't a "be careful in assuming Milldawg is town" type thing, it was an attempt to cast suspicion on Milldawg. Hiding in uncertainty is scummy.
How is it out of the ordinary to not answer pointless questions?
Yes it was possible, but if you thought it was all that likely then you wouldn't have wagered against it. Again, hiding in uncertainty is scummy.
If you simply weren't ruling out the possibility that Milldawg is not town, that's what you'd have said. What you said is that you were actually starting to lean towards the possibility of him being not town.
And if you think we shouldn't rule out the possibility of him being scum, why did you jump on AE and LatD for attacking him?
What would TFE have gained from "Dak Kill"ing CC as scum?
If fake killing is scummy, why is it okay to do it on page 1? It's the random vote stage, not the get out of jail free card stage.
(gogo stealing from VR mafia)
EvilZak makes some sound points against Samoht, especially his dubious scumhunting. I shall do an actual re-read of the thread and pay attention.
Can we have a votecount mod?
To avoid confusion from now on, any daykill that is made that doesn't result in a DEATH SCENE from me is not a real daykill. I'm on most of the day, so I'll catch it. Thanks.
Will get on it after school
I still feel inclined to defend Samoht, despite his apparently suspicion of me. Maybe I'm just gullible, but I get the impression that he was merely a little careless. I think that rather than attempting to make weak attacks to appear as though he is legitimately hunting for mafia, he was attemping to make legitimate attacks on what he genuinely perceived as suspicious behavior, but since others did not perceive the behavior in the same way, they thought he was deliberately feinting. I don't think his crime is that of being mafia, but merely of misevaluating the evidence.
Then again, my gullibility and trusting nature have often led me astray before, so my "gut feelings" may not be particularly useful. But I'm just trying to point out a possibility that many of you seem to have overlooked.
Hanna, Ship's Navigator - WU Enchantments Control
Wort, the Raidmother - RG Copy ALL the Spells!
Rakdos, Lord of Riots - BR Group Murder-Hug
Reaper King - WUBRG Token Copies
Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker - B Sacrifice Engine
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - BR Randomized Toolbox
Karametra, God of Harvests - GW Ramp
I have to agree that Samoht is target #1 at the moment. His defense has been all around poor and his actions vis-a-vis Milldawg have done him no favors.
I'm still not ready to vote, as I think there's been a lot of noob overreaction so far and not so much actual scumminess, which is of course perfectly OK in a noob game.
AE has been very, very under the radar these last five pages, probably because he got himself into hot water last time he posted substantially. For me, though, his post 105 smacks of town. Scum might've gone over the top trying to make up a flowery defense against CC's scumhunting, but AE gives a typically noob town response.
Interesting to me is the Samoht-on-AE aggro though.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
I think you ought to post more though. You can still participate without becoming guns-blazing.
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
Generally, defending other people is not a great idea, you tend to get linked to them, and if they turn out scum, you look mighty suspicious. Tis best to let people fend for themselves generally.
Defending them in such an obvious way is less so, but the covert stuff/subtle defending (demonstrated helpfully by AE) is more scum-like
seconded, Zindabad is pretty good at this game. (I still got NK'd in newb 24 over you though :P)
I'll read through tomorrow and review AE and Samoht.
No not a push to your voteing nor am I attacking you, I'm trying to understand you. Is it not the fact that he defends but the depth he put into that defense?
@Zindabad- You are right on the button. I jumped in trying to get things moving and got in deeper everytime so I backed away till you last few got in and started posting more.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
His next response is more interesting...
...which is...not a defense. "I see where you're coming from, oops" doesn't make my case look worse. He pretty just admits that I'm right to think what I think.
Vote stands.
[The Family]
Milldawg - lostandthedamned
lostandthedamned - Ced395, Samoht
Archmage Eternal - CropCircles, Ecophagy
Samoht - bigcountry, The Fallen One, EvilZak
If there are any mistakes, please PM me
I am not feeling terribly suspicious of Ced's play, and would be hesitant to lynch him.
milldawg is coming across rather town, as is TFO. I am not sure I can pass comment on BC and CC, but Bc seems the more town of the two.
come the weekend, posts for LatD would be lovely.
Not enough really to go on for evilzak, latd and zindabad, alignment wise.
What exactly are your thoughts on me for a lynch?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Is that a why do I want to lynch you, or do I want to lynch you?
If scum are more likely to defend a player who turns up scum, wouldn't you want scum to openly do it?
Reasons to want to lynch me.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Well, yes. But I figured that since this is a newb game, handing out nuggets of advice is a good thing.
Generally, the scum don't do what you want anyway. It'd be a bit easy if they did
Figured as much.
Well, at this stage there isn't a great deal to go on.
you post #94 struck me as odd -- the jab at CC, and the "hmmm" doesn't sit well.
your response to CC vote on you (#105) was also jarring. I don't get why it is terribly humerous.
Perhaps it could just be a noob taking a vote a little too seriously, or a knee-jerk reaction to being voted, as it was clearly not over nothing.
Your post #159 seems pretty reasonable, however, as CC said, "oops, I agree" is not a great defence.
That's all the meaninful posts I could find.
Honestly, at this point of limited information you are one of the people who has posted some things which have caught my eye and made me pause. Along with Samoht. Hence the vote.
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Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
Archmage Eternal, Frenger, Milldawg, zindabad
^^Noted if any of these lynches stall.
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Samoht's random jumping with no eveidence and a terrible defence has him at the top of my list.
AE's posts have been reeking of noob, the only reason he is not on top of my list is becuase He might actually be nooby, samoht on the other hand, looks more experienced, so I am assuming he knows what he is doing.
Hanna, Ship's Navigator - WU Enchantments Control
Wort, the Raidmother - RG Copy ALL the Spells!
Rakdos, Lord of Riots - BR Group Murder-Hug
Reaper King - WUBRG Token Copies
Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker - B Sacrifice Engine
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - BR Randomized Toolbox
Karametra, God of Harvests - GW Ramp
AE has posted nothing but questions in response, he just seems to be changing the subject.
[The Family]
I wasn't lurking. My computer is on 24/7 and it's default page atm is MTGSalv - Mafia because I'm in 2 games. I have finals this week, which you can verify if you check Batman...moreover, what do you want me to reply to, I've responded to the cases brought against me...I can't help it if you don't like my answers.
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
I am suspicious of Samoht, since he's continuing his attack on TFO, even though the reason he started it was a frivolous accusation. He keeps posting aggressively which I don't like very much. Maybe it's because I have a sort of 'sit back and think things through' approach to mafia as opposed to a 'vote now, then discuss' one that seems to be rather apparent in this game, but nonetheless I find his aggressive play scummy.
I also don't like AE's absence when put under pressure. Not posting in your defense doesn't help anyone's opinion of you.
I honestly don't know what to make of this paragraph.
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Which part?
The part about his sit back approach to mafia, Samohts frivolous accusation or the part about him play agressivly?
You kind of left alot out there BC, I'm honestly not sure what part your refering to
I don't know if this is scummy or not. Thus my comment.
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
When you tell them how to avoid suspicion, yeah it's easy.
What makes Samoht's aggressive play different from everyone else's aggressive play?
Maybe becuase it was based on a stupid accusation? at least when someone else has made an agressive play they had a good reson for it, and no, "I think we are past the joke phase" is not a good reason. If your going to be agressive at least have evidence for the action.
It wasn't a turnaround. At the time of that post, I felt the possible lynches would be between Samoht/ced/AE. As mentioned previously, I'll wagon anyone if it means we get some information, and I would rather it be one of Samoht or ced than AE.
Also - you guys really thought Samoht was being aggressive? :boggle:
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p2: I didn't you were scum but I wanted to see your reply before I could begin futher analyisis.
p3: Ok so its scummy to agree with someone.
p4: I smelled scum, I tried to prove scum, I didn't see anything really scummy until then.
p5: Agressive becuase I'm trying to see if he is scum, I'm not going to let go of the issue, its always going to be an issue until one of us dies, I'll let the issue fade into the background but just forgetting it seems foolish.
I didn't have a worthwhile opinion of LatD at the time, I was simply aware of him. I didn't know huntng for scum was just... bad
I will explain later, IIRC I posted that late at night and couldn't be bothered writing up a long reply.
p6: The first point was the reason why he was wrong.
Samoht is the right target.
This was not done, and no one has even commented on it for two days. My vote resides on LatD, and I urge you all to follow suit - either provide real pressure or there will never be an answer.
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
They hate us cause they ain't us.
No, no longer. I'm content on how you've been posting.
My list goes Lost/Damned, EvilZak, Zindabad. All for lack of posts. Seem to be laying low, out of sight out of mind. Will they be doing their talking at night? I'm wondering. I think its time we start pushing the lynch.
Vote LostandtheDamned for not backing up his post/stalling.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I mean, I hate getting stuck up on lurkers, but I've seen many a game lost because the town talked themselves in circles while the scum lurked their way to the endgame.
[The Family]
What do you mean by an L-3 ?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
This post he says that since Milldawg wants some role-playing that that is him trying to pick off the power roles, which is pretty much nonsense, he only challenges Milldawg after someone else does and he fear mongers people by dropping the names of power roles.
This post he gets really defensive over a random vote, it could have been newbieness.
Here’s the post that really got the vote, he hasn’t contributed anything and he has promised to reply twice and hasn’t come through, it just seems like he is lurking to dodge replying until the focus is off him, I understand that real life can get in the way, but I would rather him respond when he posts instead of posting another “I’ll post when I have time” post. It just seems like he could have replied by now if he used the times he said that he’d post later to read the thread and respond to people, it just seems like lurking with an excise IMO.
Hanna, Ship's Navigator - WU Enchantments Control
Wort, the Raidmother - RG Copy ALL the Spells!
Rakdos, Lord of Riots - BR Group Murder-Hug
Reaper King - WUBRG Token Copies
Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker - B Sacrifice Engine
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - BR Randomized Toolbox
Karametra, God of Harvests - GW Ramp
Like how you still haven't answered 171?
L followed by a negative number indicates how many votes from a lynch a person is. L-2 (two from being lynched) is the standard claim range. It is just a shorthand notation.
LatD's absence is starting to grate, with the weekend come and gone and no post, it seems unlikely we'll get much. Still, we can but wait.
The "name-dropping" in post 84 is a good example. Here he reads as someone who's just become interested in the game, researched it on MS through the flash tutorial, learned about all of the various roles, and is trying to apply this new knowledge.
I agree that promising a thorough post later is a classic scum tactic but it just doesn't seem to fit here and I think we should give him until his return. He can then decide if he's good to go on or if he will need to be replaced. But voting for someone in absentia, in a noob game on day 1, is a bad idea.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."