One thing to keep in mind CropCircles, and others who analyze very deeply, is that some of us are totally new to mafia. The activity paradigms that CropCircles presents might be accurate for frequent players, but someone who's new will fit much less easily. What I mean is, new players' posting styles must be evaluated more leniently than veterans', because they are not yet familiar with the conventions. Even if a thorough logical and psychological analysis would suggest certain actions (such as passive-aggressiveness being a likely sign of mafia), I doubt all the new players will conform to those standards. I mean, I certainly haven't - look at the whole no-lynch fiasco (By which I mean, I brought up a controversial topic not out of secret evil machinations, but simply out of inexperience, and this may be the case for others.) To summarize: be wary of reading too deeply into every single word a new player posts.
One thing to keep in mind CropCircles, and others who analyze very deeply, is that some of us are totally new to mafia. The activity paradigms that CropCircles presents might be accurate for frequent players, but someone who's new will fit much less easily. What I mean is, new players' posting styles must be evaluated more leniently than veterans', because they are not yet familiar with the conventions. Even if a thorough logical and psychological analysis would suggest certain actions (such as passive-aggressiveness being a likely sign of mafia), I doubt all the new players will conform to those standards. I mean, I certainly haven't - look at the whole no-lynch fiasco (By which I mean, I brought up a controversial topic not out of secret evil machinations, but simply out of inexperience, and this may be the case for others.) To summarize: be wary of reading too deeply into every single word a new player posts.
While I agree in essence that beginners will send false tells more readily than experienced players, analyzing every word is an important aspect of this game. Disregarding that will cause more problems than lynching a beginner.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
T2: Solar Flare
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
2009 NY States Top 8, 2010 NY States 2nd, 2011 NY States 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
One thing to keep in mind CropCircles, and others who analyze very deeply, is that some of us are totally new to mafia. The activity paradigms that CropCircles presents might be accurate for frequent players, but someone who's new will fit much less easily. What I mean is, new players' posting styles must be evaluated more leniently than veterans', because they are not yet familiar with the conventions. Even if a thorough logical and psychological analysis would suggest certain actions (such as passive-aggressiveness being a likely sign of mafia), I doubt all the new players will conform to those standards. I mean, I certainly haven't - look at the whole no-lynch fiasco (By which I mean, I brought up a controversial topic not out of secret evil machinations, but simply out of inexperience, and this may be the case for others.) To summarize: be wary of reading too deeply into every single word a new player posts.
As of right now, who are one or more players that you think are infected?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
The "joke post" defense is as bad as the "newbie" defense.
I'd like to here that bit of logic, if you don't mind presenting it.
Quote from Milldawg »
One thing to keep in mind CropCircles, and others who analyze very deeply, is that some of us are totally new to mafia.
Whoa whoa whoa whoa, this is a newb game?
How long have you been sitting on this information?
Quote from Milldawg »
The activity paradigms that CropCircles presents might be accurate for frequent players, but someone who's new will fit much less easily. What I mean is, new players' posting styles must be evaluated more leniently than veterans', because they are not yet familiar with the conventions. Even if a thorough logical and psychological analysis would suggest certain actions (such as passive-aggressiveness being a likely sign of mafia), I doubt all the new players will conform to those standards.
Actually, I think it works the other way around. Passive agressive attacks are the common human reaction to the presented situation. Experienced players tend to know the conventions, and thus tend to avoid them better. For this example: in Axelrod's Star trek Mafia I declared chamber a townie very early for his agressive attack on a player who I knew was scum(via investigation). Turns out, he threw his scum buddy under the bus to clear himself, and I underestimated his capability for pulling such a gambit.
Quote from Milldawg »
I mean, I certainly haven't - look at the whole no-lynch fiasco (By which I mean, I brought up a controversial topic not out of secret evil machinations, but simply out of inexperience, and this may be the case for others.)
See here, there's a huge difference between being passive agressive and being aggressively passive.
You took a firm stance, early in the game. That's not passive aggressive, it's just passive. But the fact that you weren't afraid of having to explain yourself is a point in your favor.
Still seems like he is quoting alot of you posts with "Good posting" and such, not to mention you called him town right off the back, I'm leaning towards to guys as town btw.
Samoht> I didn't mean not to look closely, just not to read into things too deeply.
bigcountry> Well I still haven't heard from lostfromthedamned, but if I had to choose, I'd suspect lostfromthedamned and Archmage because they make me uneasy. That's not a great reason, I realize, but it's the only one I have right now.
CropCircles> Then why would you try to analyze tells? But I'm not questioning your innocence, merely your approach. I do know you think I'm a townie, and I appreciate your vote of confidence, so I hope you will consider my suggestions.
CropCircles> Then why would you try to analyze tells? But I'm not questioning your innocence, merely your approach. I do know you think I'm a townie, and I appreciate your vote of confidence, so I hope you will consider my suggestions.
The point I was trying to make was that there are different ways to analyze different players, based on experience as well as other reasons. You're right about that, but just because a player is new doesn't mean you can't spot tells, and I've played with many newbs before; the tells I'm applying are common newb tells.
I'd like to here that bit of logic, if you don't mind presenting it.
It's a crutch.
I see no difference between "Don't suspect me because of X, that's just my playstyle. It was a joke post," and, "Don't suspect me because of X, I'm just a new player."
Really easy for mafia to hide behind a projected playstyle, and then point back to that fact when accused.
@The Fallen One: INTERESTING.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
There is only one way to solve this Dak Kill: CropCircles
Did you purposefully misspell daykill? Are you claiming to be a Vig?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
T2: Solar Flare
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
2009 NY States Top 8, 2010 NY States 2nd, 2011 NY States 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
Interesting, we've clearly left the joke stage - why did you decide to relapse? Seems like maybe someone was on the right track?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
T2: Solar Flare
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
2009 NY States Top 8, 2010 NY States 2nd, 2011 NY States 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
Well I sincerely apoligise for trying to enjoy mafia.
What do you mean someone was on the right track? who and what? your post references nothing.
Idk, your post was completely pointless other than to pseudo day kill someone, other than your own personal enjoyment. I mean that perhaps this tactic was to move attention off of a line of suspicion, either a scumbuddy of yours (assuming you are scum here of course) or a fellow mason (if we have one) and thus you are drawing attention. No I didn't reference a track of reasoning, because you didn't. The only real interaction was between CC and Milldawg.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
T2: Solar Flare
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
2009 NY States Top 8, 2010 NY States 2nd, 2011 NY States 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
Idk, your post was completely pointless other than to pseudo day kill someone, other than your own personal enjoyment. I mean that perhaps this tactic was to move attention off of a line of suspicion, either a scumbuddy of yours (assuming you are scum here of course) or a fellow mason (if we have one) and thus you are drawing attention. No I didn't reference a track of reasoning, because you didn't. The only real interaction was between CC and Milldawg.
What? Ok, so I'm not allowed to do things for my own enjoyment, ok.
Their was nothing to throw suspicion off of, I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that I was scumbuddying right after I said that CC was suspicious, just because I think he is town does not mean he is not suspicious. Their was no tactic, your just shooting blanks here kiddo.
I had a feeling someone would jump on me for a defensive post but I went through with it anyway. I didn't defend anything he said just the fact that it came from the random stage and nothing else LatD has said, it's just harsh to vote so quickly in my opinion. If its based on that I would not submit a vote.
Ecophagy, you seem to agree with that but then say its strange for me to come out and say this? How so?
Thinking before you speak is a fantastic idea -- in my first game I decided to fish for role information and that Would have got my lynched, if I hadn't been the cop.
you defended him indirectly, and do so again.
So you say I should not be suspicous of you because I didn't fully vote you?
All right then vote archmage eternal
Sorry about my inactivity. It seems like a lot of the action goes on while I'm asleep.
Two players strike me as scummy. AE got way too defensive over a small point, and responded poorly to CC's accusations.
Just recently, Samoht just attacked TFO over a joke post, and then kept it on after TFO told him it was a joke post. I find this way too aggressive.
For now though, AE looks scummier to me than Samoht. FOS: Archmage Eternal
And CC, despite the fact that you explained why they're not scummy, I'm not a huge fan of one line posts sawing "soandso = town" or saying that you're willing to stake your reputation as a mafia player on the fact that milldawg is town. We need actual reasoning, even if it's obvious.
Media is not making me steal. But in a way is like the story of the very hot girl with the short skirt teasing the old sick guy with a history of rape.
Media is not making me steal. But in a way is like the story of the very hot girl with the short skirt teasing the old sick guy with a history of rape.
I see no difference between "Don't suspect me because of X, that's just my playstyle. It was a joke post," and, "Don't suspect me because of X, I'm just a new player."
Really easy for mafia to hide behind a projected playstyle, and then point back to that fact when accused.
@The Fallen One: INTERESTING.
But how is it a tell? (Useless one liner's, I mean)
Because I'm trying to appear to be contributing without actually contributing? That would make sense, if not for the fact that I'm actually contributing plenty outside of those "joke posts." How do you suspect "meaningless" joke posts advance my cause as a diabolical, infected scum trying kill everyone?
EBWODP: Samoht's page 3 play does not make good reading.
-First he FoSs me, partly because he likes BC's case, and partly because he doesn't like my case on LatD.
-Then he agrees with Eco's FoS on AE (for defending LatD).
-Then, when asked for a scumlist, he puts LatD and AE on it, as well as me and CC (bigcountry's early targets).
-Then adds bigcountry because:
Despite the fact he agrees with his targets.
The stances don't fit together well at all.
I'm much more in agreement with Samoht case now. Probably ahead of AE, but behind LatD. Only other notable target for me at the moment is EvilZak's lurking.
I do think BC's case was pertinent, and deserved the FoS i gave you. you're post was not adding anything to the discussion, while seeming to. On that note alone I felt you to be suspicious.
I also felt that AE seemed to go out on a limb to defend LatD, and as such supported Eco. I don't see these two to be contradictory. I didn't defend LatD, I just felt you're case was weak - these are two different things.
Of course my scumlist had those players on it, they were the ones who had acted scummy to that point. If you'll notice, they were in the order that I've put above.
Just because I found BC's case to be plausable, doesn't mean that I will blindly follow him, and was trying to garner support to get a more balanced Town approach.
You might see contradictions, I see a reserved approach - one that I've taken all game.
RE: TFO's post and my "attacks" on him: I was just very surprised to see a joke post at that point, and was looking for an ulterior motive. He never really answered my question, so I clarified it for him. If that's a scum move, sure lynch me now. I don't think you'll like the result.
It's amusing to see both CC and Ced to barn onto BC, seeing as they are the other top listers on his scumlist...seems like a good play for a scum tandom to make.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
T2: Solar Flare
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
2009 NY States Top 8, 2010 NY States 2nd, 2011 NY States 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
But how is it a tell? (Useless one liner's, I mean)
Because I'm trying to appear to be contributing without actually contributing? That would make sense, if not for the fact that I'm actually contributing plenty outside of those "joke posts." How do you suspect "meaningless" joke posts advance my cause as a diabolical, infected scum trying kill everyone?
Not all joke posts are scummy, just like not all new players' posts are scummy. In your post I found a combination of distancing and/or odd barning in that post of yours.
The Fallen One's "Dak-kill" post is a good example. It was a reference to your title. Harmless, for now. If we find TFO is scum, I will come back to it later (as well as his other posts). I just found yours and ced's posts more telling than not.
Your response would indicate that you don't think it was a joke. It would greatly help me defend myself if you told me what you think those posts were.
In addition, i notice that this is the only follow up I see from my response. Could you perhaps provide more?
First, when you respond to CC's "Milldawg = town" post, it immediately struck a nerve. I keep going back to it, and I finally think the scum vibe from that post conveys "BG annoyed because that's one less person that will be voted for instead of a mafiate." I also see it as a possible distancing tool, but I really don't like to think of pairs of BGs (I have done it a couple times already this game, and once more in this post even) until we've got one of them dead.
What elicited my vote though was the post in which you sighed over Milldawg's no-lynch argument. I've already stated I think this is a post that wants to convey help, but ultimately does nothing.
Samoht's part in his exchange with TFO = bad. I support any case/wagon against him or AE in the current situation, although my vote is staying on LatD at the moment, because I'd hate for him to be forgotten.
EBWODP: Samoht's page 3 play does not make good reading.
-First he FoSs me, partly because he likes BC's case, and partly because he doesn't like my case on LatD.
-Then he agrees with Eco's FoS on AE (for defending LatD).
-Then, when asked for a scumlist, he puts LatD and AE on it, as well as me and CC (bigcountry's early targets).
-Then adds bigcountry because:
Despite the fact he agrees with his targets.
The stances don't fit together well at all.
I'm much more in agreement with Samoht case now. Probably ahead of AE, but behind LatD. Only other notable target for me at the moment is EvilZak's lurking.
I do think BC's case was pertinent, and deserved the FoS i gave you. you're post was not adding anything to the discussion, while seeming to. On that note alone I felt you to be suspicious.
I also felt that AE seemed to go out on a limb to defend LatD, and as such supported Eco. I don't see these two to be contradictory. I didn't defend LatD, I just felt you're case was weak - these are two different things.
Of course my scumlist had those players on it, they were the ones who had acted scummy to that point. If you'll notice, they were in the order that I've put above.
Just because I found BC's case to be plausable, doesn't mean that I will blindly follow him, and was trying to garner support to get a more balanced Town approach.
You might see contradictions, I see a reserved approach - one that I've taken all game.
YOU could have been the more balanced Town approach. Typical scum not wanting to commit to anything.
RE: TFO's post and my "attacks" on him: I was just very surprised to see a joke post at that point, and was looking for an ulterior motive. He never really answered my question, so I clarified it for him. If that's a scum move, sure lynch me now. I don't think you'll like the result.
Threats only increase the desire to lynch you.
It's amusing to see both CC and Ced to barn onto BC, seeing as they are the other top listers on his scumlist...seems like a good play for a scum tandom to make.
You just added half the town to your suspicious list.
It seems you didn't properly understand the case. I agreed with LatD's presented opinion (although Milldawg had dropped said opposite opinion earlier), but I attacked him for his fearmongering, the weak vote/attack, and his earlier reaction to being voted for (which was certainly very strange, given the nature of the vote).
Ok. You're down to number 3.
Noted.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
Oh, and at CC's latest post: You missed BC's point. It isn't that joke posts themselves are bad, it's that passing off suspicious posts as joke posts is bad (which I have to agree with).
No. I got what he was saying. I'm saying it doesn't apply.
Let me show you:
Quote from The Fallen One »
So CC, your mafia right?
Quote from CropCircles »
See, you're not as good at this guessing thing as I am.
The above posts were made followed shortly by:
Quote from Archmage Eternal »
Also random is done and we're heavy into it now and CC is still throwing out meaningless posts? Hmmmm.
...to which I responded...
Quote from CropCircles »
Seriously? Contentless posts are only scummy if they're used to look like you are contributing rather then actually contributing.
But I actually have been contributing. The fact that I throw out joke posts is not at all indicative of me being scum. More a symptom of me enjoying the game. And seriously, who would think that joke posts are a scum tell?
You're taking something that has been mentioned before as a scum tell, and trying to pin it on me. And the off hand mention followed by a "hmmm" is a classic attempt to push the town in a direction without commiting too much. Looks to me like scum testing the waters before commiting to an attack.
...and he blows it off with...
Quote from Archmage Eternal »
My response is.... LOL. I never mentioned scum or scum tell. Simmer down and relax. Again another hasty VOTE over nothing.
I responded in post 109(which I will not repost in its entirety for sake of space), particularly with this...
Quote from CropCircles »
Incinuating that I'm scum because of a couple joke posts is poor logic, as I outlined in my last post.
...which provoked bigcountry's response...
Quote from bigcountry »
This is the reason I'm holding off on agreeing with you about AE.
The "joke post" defense is as bad as the "newbie" defense.
...which brings me to my point.
The only time I said anything about my play style was in response to bigcountry's "why would you even post this?" back at the start of the game. And I never tried to use my playstyle to cover up scummy posts.
As I've said before, lack of content is only scummy in a broad sense. It's scummy because players try to skate by without contributing. That doesn't apply to me because I have been contributing.
bigcountry is trying to say that I'm using the "joke post defense" to covor up scummy posts.
My response to bigcountry is: How are the original posts scummy in the first place?
PWE: I see that bigc has already responded.
Quote from bigcountry »
The Fallen One's "Dak-kill" post is a good example. It was a reference to your title. Harmless, for now. If we find TFO is scum, I will come back to it later (as well as his other posts). I just found yours and ced's posts more telling than not.
Therein lies my problem. In the post that AE responded to my "joke post," which prompted me to suspect him, he never says anything about why the post is scummy. He says "Also random is done and we're heavy into it now and CC is still throwing out meaningless posts? Hmmmm." That's not a legitimate attack, it assumes that my post was scummy simply by virtue of being a joke. Which you seem to agree is poor logic. And to which I never applied this supposed "joke post defense." Do you see the problem I'm having here?
Therein lies my problem. In the post that AE responded to my "joke post," which prompted me to suspect him, he never says anything about why the post is scummy. He says "Also random is done and we're heavy into it now and CC is still throwing out meaningless posts? Hmmmm." That's not a legitimate attack, it assumes that my post was scummy simply by virtue of being a joke. Which you seem to agree is poor logic. And to which I never applied this supposed "joke post defense." Do you see the problem I'm having here?
This is quite true, and I do see the problem. I did a poor job of examining AE's posts, as I was locked into "I think CC could be bad"-mode.
Upon further review, the ruling in bigcountry's mind is overturned. CropCircles will not be charged a timeout.[/head referee]
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
EBWODP: I have now whittled the list down to three, at the moment:
Samoht
ced395
EvilZak
And what are your opinions of Archmage Eternal? and to a lesser extent LatD (who should really weigh in on the inderect defence by AE)
And I guess evilzak is only present for the lurking? would a Post be all takes to remove him, or do you actually suspect something more sinister?
And what are your opinions of Archmage Eternal? and to a lesser extent LatD (who should really weigh in on the inderect defence by AE)
And I guess evilzak is only present for the lurking? would a Post be all takes to remove him, or do you actually suspect something more sinister?
Really not feeling the AE lynch. His accusations read a lot better than Samoht's, imo.
I will wagon if others go that way, for the sake of lynching someone D1.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
Really not feeling the AE lynch. His accusations read a lot better than Samoht's, imo.
I will wagon if others go that way, for the sake of lynching someone D1.
I agree samoht is scummy, but I feel his attack of TFO is...rather awful play if he is scum, whereas AE has at least tried to introduce a form of sublty (albeait not terribly successfully). However, both players should be watched, and I'd be reasonably happy with a lynch of either at the moment.
interesting to note you are prepared to lynch someone you do not consider in your top 3 (but I suppose for the sake of a day 1 lynch it is reasonably acceptable)
You also didn't repsond to my question about your choice of evilzak.
I too am curious what bigcountry thinks of Archmage Eternal and lostandthedamned. And I STILL plan to refrain from voting until lostandthedamned posts, mostly because he has attacked me directly and is therefore the highest on my radar.
I actually find myself inclined to believe Samoht's story. He is attacked for jumping around a lot, but everyone has been doing that, and although it could have elements of suspicious behavior (the mafia are less heavily invested in lynching than the townspeople are, so they can afford to waffle and spread dissent), it would also make sense coming from a paranoid villager. And in fact, he's NOT just flinging votes around. He is being, as he said, reserved - using only fingers of suspicion, simply probing for clues rather than try to spread dissent. That's the impression I get, anyway.
A note: Some of your arguments are really hard to follow. Bigcountry and CropCircles have clear, direct posts making good use of quotes and minimizing pronouns. With most of the rest of you, though, I have a hard time following the strings of argument. Too many "he"s and "that post"s and "his reaction"s. Also, too many abbreviations. What's BG? I could figure out most of the others but it just adds too much unnecessary confusion. If you're typing out a long post anway, there's really no need to shave off a few characters with potentially troublesome abbreviations.
I too am curious what bigcountry thinks of Archmage Eternal and lostandthedamned. And I STILL plan to refrain from voting until lostandthedamned posts, mostly because he has attacked me directly and is therefore the highest on my radar.
See, if we all did that, the scum just wouldn't post.
It is probably a better tactic to vote him and put some pressure on him, to force him to post & react. Since he is nowhere near being lynched such a vote would be quite acceptable.
I agree samoht is scummy, but I feel his attack of TFO is...rather awful play if he is scum, whereas AE has at least tried to introduce a form of sublty (albeait not terribly successfully). However, both players should be watched, and I'd be reasonably happy with a lynch of either at the moment.
interesting to note you are prepared to lynch someone you do not consider in your top 3 (but I suppose for the sake of a day 1 lynch it is reasonably acceptable)
You also didn't repsond to my question about your choice of evilzak.
I don't really have any qualms about lynching anyone, barring myself, on Day 1. The list is just my preference.
Oh, EvilZak is just the typical low-flier lurker option, and then it becomes a quality over quantity type of thing. He seems like good vig fodder, if you ask me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
I don't really have any qualms about lynching anyone, barring myself, on Day 1. The list is just my preference.
Oh, EvilZak is just the typical low-flier lurker option, and then it becomes a quality over quantity type of thing. He seems like good vig fodder, if you ask me.
Fair enough, doubtless as the day develops, there will be those you do not want, and those you do. At this early stage, talk of an actual lynch is pretty speculative.
again, talk of "vig-fodder" is pretty arbitrary. If he added to his two posts, one hopes he would come up with some insight, and lose the lurker guise.
(Handy tip for Evilzak: Post!)
I actually find myself inclined to believe Samoht's story. He is attacked for jumping around a lot, but everyone has been doing that, and although it could have elements of suspicious behavior (the mafia are less heavily invested in lynching than the townspeople are, so they can afford to waffle and spread dissent), it would also make sense coming from a paranoid villager. And in fact, he's NOT just flinging votes around. He is being, as he said, reserved - using only fingers of suspicion, simply probing for clues rather than try to spread dissent. That's the impression I get, anyway.
The problem was not him jumping on everyone, its that he had no evidence for accusing anyone, jumping on with claims that don't even make sense, makes you look scummy. The fact that he is using FoS's is beside the point.
A note: Some of your arguments are really hard to follow. Bigcountry and CropCircles have clear, direct posts making good use of quotes and minimizing pronouns. With most of the rest of you, though, I have a hard time following the strings of argument. Too many "he"s and "that post"s and "his reaction"s. Also, too many abbreviations. What's BG? I could figure out most of the others but it just adds too much unnecessary confusion. If you're typing out a long post anway, there's really no need to shave off a few characters with potentially troublesome abbreviations.
I understand where CropCircles is coming from with me posting in a passive aggressive manner, I did not realize I was coming off that way.
In regards to defending LostandtheDamned: I was not coming across as defending him but toward pushing Ced, as he posted a vote from statements out of the random stage.
The problem was not him jumping on everyone, its that he had no evidence for accusing anyone, jumping on with claims that don't even make sense, makes you look scummy. The fact that he is using FoS's is beside the point.
I wasn't really jumping on everyone. I simply agreed when a good post was made, or pointed out posts that i felt to be suspicious. To me, that's the role of a good townie. Claims that don't make sense? The only claim I made that seems to be in question was of your pseudo day-kill. Maybe I jumped the proverbial gun and read too far into it, maybe I made a mistake and I apologize to you if you're town and that suspicion was falsely laid at your feet...but I will stand by original sentiment that a joke post at that juncture in the game was definitely uncalled for from my perspective, and it unsettled me. We had just finished going through why we felt joke posts were scummy, and you decide to step up and offer yourself a joke post defense...I wanted to bring attention to that. Clearly, my actions haven't brought about the desired effect, but I'd like to think someone else would have found it fishy. I just don't get why I was railroaded about questioning a post that had scummy overtones.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
T2: Solar Flare
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
2009 NY States Top 8, 2010 NY States 2nd, 2011 NY States 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
It seems you didn't properly understand the case. I agreed with LatD's presented opinion (although Milldawg had dropped said opposite opinion earlier), but I attacked him for his fearmongering, the weak vote/attack, and his earlier reaction to being voted for (which was certainly very strange, given the nature of the vote).
My apologies good sir, it seems I did misunderstand your case. I thought you disagreed with LatD, or at least felt his opinion to be scummy. I now see your point and after looking at his post from the angle which you present it, I will once again concur with his attack being weak (hence my FoS earlier and his inclusion on my scum list). Furthermore, after checking his earlier reaction to the clearly random vote, and his inability to post a resposne of late, I think it's time we put some pressure on LatD to answer for his posts.
Unvote, Vote LostandtheDamned
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
T2: Solar Flare
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
2009 NY States Top 8, 2010 NY States 2nd, 2011 NY States 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
I wasn't really jumping on everyone. I simply agreed when a good post was made, or pointed out posts that i felt to be suspicious. To me, that's the role of a good townie. Claims that don't make sense? The only claim I made that seems to be in question was of your pseudo day-kill. Maybe I jumped the proverbial gun and read too far into it, maybe I made a mistake and I apologize to you if you're town and that suspicion was falsely laid at your feet...but I will stand by original sentiment that a joke post at that juncture in the game was definitely uncalled for from my perspective, and it unsettled me. We had just finished going through why we felt joke posts were scummy, and you decide to step up and offer yourself a joke post defense...I wanted to bring attention to that. Clearly, my actions haven't brought about the desired effect, but I'd like to think someone else would have found it fishy. I just don't get why I was railroaded about questioning a post that had scummy overtones.
In your opinion it was uncalled for, if you don't like jokes in mafia games, fine, but just because doesn't play how you want doesnt mean they are scum, people will play how they like, and it seems like you jumped on the first thing you saw, that smells like scum to me, you tried to make something out of nothing and it didn't work. I don't know why you would even begin to think it was defense, what did I have to defend? I wasn't being accused of anything, your claims have no substance. I'm thinking you only found the post fishy, because you wanted it to be fishy.
In your opinion it was uncalled for, if you don't like jokes in mafia games, fine, but just because doesn't play how you want doesnt mean they are scum, people will play how they like, and it seems like you jumped on the first thing you saw, that smells like scum to me, you tried to make something out of nothing and it didn't work. I don't know why you would even begin to think it was defense, what did I have to defend? I wasn't being accused of anything, your claims have no substance. I'm thinking you only found the post fishy, because you wanted it to be fishy.
I did not jump on the first thing I saw. Many posts were made before hand, and I responded to them in turn. I was the only one on at the moment aside from you and as such thought I'd ask you about it. And I don't think I ever really jumped on it. I had a problem with the post, I asked for clarification, and didn't get it. Asked again, got more information, along with a slew of attention that I feel was unwarranted.
You were defending your joke post. One which you made after we established as a town that joke posts were not pro-town. i'm not the only one who found it fishy --- BigC also put it in one of his posts as something that could have merit if you turn out scum. Clearly I'm not the only one in this town who felt it was out of place. I see now that my reaction to it was not the best it could have been, and perhaps a simple "Noted." would have been sufficient, but I seem to recall being called a fence sitter for not taking stances. I made the decision to stand on that issue, and it didn't work out the way I wanted to.
I find it more amusing that in your tunnel visions OMGUS moments, you have completely disregarded LatD's absence and his previous posts.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
T2: Solar Flare
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
2009 NY States Top 8, 2010 NY States 2nd, 2011 NY States 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
One thing to keep in mind CropCircles, and others who analyze very deeply, is that some of us are totally new to mafia. The activity paradigms that CropCircles presents might be accurate for frequent players, but someone who's new will fit much less easily. What I mean is, new players' posting styles must be evaluated more leniently than veterans', because they are not yet familiar with the conventions. Even if a thorough logical and psychological analysis would suggest certain actions (such as passive-aggressiveness being a likely sign of mafia), I doubt all the new players will conform to those standards. I mean, I certainly haven't - look at the whole no-lynch fiasco (By which I mean, I brought up a controversial topic not out of secret evil machinations, but simply out of inexperience, and this may be the case for others.) To summarize: be wary of reading too deeply into every single word a new player posts.
Hanna, Ship's Navigator - WU Enchantments Control
Wort, the Raidmother - RG Copy ALL the Spells!
Rakdos, Lord of Riots - BR Group Murder-Hug
Reaper King - WUBRG Token Copies
Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker - B Sacrifice Engine
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - BR Randomized Toolbox
Karametra, God of Harvests - GW Ramp
While I agree in essence that beginners will send false tells more readily than experienced players, analyzing every word is an important aspect of this game. Disregarding that will cause more problems than lynching a beginner.
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
Whoa whoa whoa whoa, this is a newb game?
How long have you been sitting on this information?
Actually, I think it works the other way around. Passive agressive attacks are the common human reaction to the presented situation. Experienced players tend to know the conventions, and thus tend to avoid them better. For this example: in Axelrod's Star trek Mafia I declared chamber a townie very early for his agressive attack on a player who I knew was scum(via investigation). Turns out, he threw his scum buddy under the bus to clear himself, and I underestimated his capability for pulling such a gambit.
See here, there's a huge difference between being passive agressive and being aggressively passive.
You took a firm stance, early in the game. That's not passive aggressive, it's just passive. But the fact that you weren't afraid of having to explain yourself is a point in your favor.
Did I mention that I believe you to be a townie?
[The Family]
You did't answer the question though, this must mean your scum, or so people thought.
I don't really like CC and bigcountry having eachothers backs, it may be scumbuddying, I'm not sure though, they could be masons.
[The Family]
Its a cover =p
Still seems like he is quoting alot of you posts with "Good posting" and such, not to mention you called him town right off the back, I'm leaning towards to guys as town btw.
bigcountry> Well I still haven't heard from lostfromthedamned, but if I had to choose, I'd suspect lostfromthedamned and Archmage because they make me uneasy. That's not a great reason, I realize, but it's the only one I have right now.
CropCircles> Then why would you try to analyze tells? But I'm not questioning your innocence, merely your approach. I do know you think I'm a townie, and I appreciate your vote of confidence, so I hope you will consider my suggestions.
Hanna, Ship's Navigator - WU Enchantments Control
Wort, the Raidmother - RG Copy ALL the Spells!
Rakdos, Lord of Riots - BR Group Murder-Hug
Reaper King - WUBRG Token Copies
Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker - B Sacrifice Engine
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - BR Randomized Toolbox
Karametra, God of Harvests - GW Ramp
[The Family]
Hanna, Ship's Navigator - WU Enchantments Control
Wort, the Raidmother - RG Copy ALL the Spells!
Rakdos, Lord of Riots - BR Group Murder-Hug
Reaper King - WUBRG Token Copies
Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker - B Sacrifice Engine
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - BR Randomized Toolbox
Karametra, God of Harvests - GW Ramp
I see no difference between "Don't suspect me because of X, that's just my playstyle. It was a joke post," and, "Don't suspect me because of X, I'm just a new player."
Really easy for mafia to hide behind a projected playstyle, and then point back to that fact when accused.
@The Fallen One: INTERESTING.
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
Did you purposefully misspell daykill? Are you claiming to be a Vig?
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
Naw, it was referencing CC's custom title.
Interesting, we've clearly left the joke stage - why did you decide to relapse? Seems like maybe someone was on the right track?
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
Well I sincerely apoligise for trying to enjoy mafia.
What do you mean someone was on the right track? who and what? your post references nothing.
Idk, your post was completely pointless other than to pseudo day kill someone, other than your own personal enjoyment. I mean that perhaps this tactic was to move attention off of a line of suspicion, either a scumbuddy of yours (assuming you are scum here of course) or a fellow mason (if we have one) and thus you are drawing attention. No I didn't reference a track of reasoning, because you didn't. The only real interaction was between CC and Milldawg.
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
What? Ok, so I'm not allowed to do things for my own enjoyment, ok.
Their was nothing to throw suspicion off of, I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that I was scumbuddying right after I said that CC was suspicious, just because I think he is town does not mean he is not suspicious. Their was no tactic, your just shooting blanks here kiddo.
Thinking before you speak is a fantastic idea -- in my first game I decided to fish for role information and that Would have got my lynched, if I hadn't been the cop.
you defended him indirectly, and do so again.
So you say I should not be suspicous of you because I didn't fully vote you?
All right then vote archmage eternal
vote Samoht
He has now passed ced as my flavor of the Day. Rather these two than Archmage.
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
[The Family]
Vote: Samoht
Two players strike me as scummy. AE got way too defensive over a small point, and responded poorly to CC's accusations.
Just recently, Samoht just attacked TFO over a joke post, and then kept it on after TFO told him it was a joke post. I find this way too aggressive.
For now though, AE looks scummier to me than Samoht. FOS: Archmage Eternal
And CC, despite the fact that you explained why they're not scummy, I'm not a huge fan of one line posts sawing "soandso = town" or saying that you're willing to stake your reputation as a mafia player on the fact that milldawg is town. We need actual reasoning, even if it's obvious.
[The Family]
But how is it a tell? (Useless one liner's, I mean)
Because I'm trying to appear to be contributing without actually contributing? That would make sense, if not for the fact that I'm actually contributing plenty outside of those "joke posts." How do you suspect "meaningless" joke posts advance my cause as a diabolical, infected scum trying kill everyone?
[The Family]
I do think BC's case was pertinent, and deserved the FoS i gave you. you're post was not adding anything to the discussion, while seeming to. On that note alone I felt you to be suspicious.
I also felt that AE seemed to go out on a limb to defend LatD, and as such supported Eco. I don't see these two to be contradictory. I didn't defend LatD, I just felt you're case was weak - these are two different things.
Of course my scumlist had those players on it, they were the ones who had acted scummy to that point. If you'll notice, they were in the order that I've put above.
Just because I found BC's case to be plausable, doesn't mean that I will blindly follow him, and was trying to garner support to get a more balanced Town approach.
You might see contradictions, I see a reserved approach - one that I've taken all game.
RE: TFO's post and my "attacks" on him: I was just very surprised to see a joke post at that point, and was looking for an ulterior motive. He never really answered my question, so I clarified it for him. If that's a scum move, sure lynch me now. I don't think you'll like the result.
It's amusing to see both CC and Ced to barn onto BC, seeing as they are the other top listers on his scumlist...seems like a good play for a scum tandom to make.
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
The Fallen One's "Dak-kill" post is a good example. It was a reference to your title. Harmless, for now. If we find TFO is scum, I will come back to it later (as well as his other posts). I just found yours and ced's posts more telling than not.
First, when you respond to CC's "Milldawg = town" post, it immediately struck a nerve. I keep going back to it, and I finally think the scum vibe from that post conveys "BG annoyed because that's one less person that will be voted for instead of a mafiate." I also see it as a possible distancing tool, but I really don't like to think of pairs of BGs (I have done it a couple times already this game, and once more in this post even) until we've got one of them dead.
What elicited my vote though was the post in which you sighed over Milldawg's no-lynch argument. I've already stated I think this is a post that wants to convey help, but ultimately does nothing.
+ Do you want to be voted for?
YOU could have been the more balanced Town approach. Typical scum not wanting to commit to anything.
Threats only increase the desire to lynch you.
You just added half the town to your suspicious list.
Noted.
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
Let me show you:
The above posts were made followed shortly by:
...to which I responded...
...and he blows it off with...
I responded in post 109(which I will not repost in its entirety for sake of space), particularly with this...
...which provoked bigcountry's response...
...which brings me to my point.
The only time I said anything about my play style was in response to bigcountry's "why would you even post this?" back at the start of the game. And I never tried to use my playstyle to cover up scummy posts.
As I've said before, lack of content is only scummy in a broad sense. It's scummy because players try to skate by without contributing. That doesn't apply to me because I have been contributing.
bigcountry is trying to say that I'm using the "joke post defense" to covor up scummy posts.
My response to bigcountry is: How are the original posts scummy in the first place?
PWE: I see that bigc has already responded.
Therein lies my problem. In the post that AE responded to my "joke post," which prompted me to suspect him, he never says anything about why the post is scummy. He says "Also random is done and we're heavy into it now and CC is still throwing out meaningless posts? Hmmmm." That's not a legitimate attack, it assumes that my post was scummy simply by virtue of being a joke. Which you seem to agree is poor logic. And to which I never applied this supposed "joke post defense." Do you see the problem I'm having here?
[The Family]
Upon further review, the ruling in bigcountry's mind is overturned. CropCircles will not be charged a timeout.[/head referee]
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
Samoht
ced395
EvilZak
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
And what are your opinions of Archmage Eternal? and to a lesser extent LatD (who should really weigh in on the inderect defence by AE)
And I guess evilzak is only present for the lurking? would a Post be all takes to remove him, or do you actually suspect something more sinister?
I will wagon if others go that way, for the sake of lynching someone D1.
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
I agree samoht is scummy, but I feel his attack of TFO is...rather awful play if he is scum, whereas AE has at least tried to introduce a form of sublty (albeait not terribly successfully). However, both players should be watched, and I'd be reasonably happy with a lynch of either at the moment.
interesting to note you are prepared to lynch someone you do not consider in your top 3 (but I suppose for the sake of a day 1 lynch it is reasonably acceptable)
You also didn't repsond to my question about your choice of evilzak.
I actually find myself inclined to believe Samoht's story. He is attacked for jumping around a lot, but everyone has been doing that, and although it could have elements of suspicious behavior (the mafia are less heavily invested in lynching than the townspeople are, so they can afford to waffle and spread dissent), it would also make sense coming from a paranoid villager. And in fact, he's NOT just flinging votes around. He is being, as he said, reserved - using only fingers of suspicion, simply probing for clues rather than try to spread dissent. That's the impression I get, anyway.
A note: Some of your arguments are really hard to follow. Bigcountry and CropCircles have clear, direct posts making good use of quotes and minimizing pronouns. With most of the rest of you, though, I have a hard time following the strings of argument. Too many "he"s and "that post"s and "his reaction"s. Also, too many abbreviations. What's BG? I could figure out most of the others but it just adds too much unnecessary confusion. If you're typing out a long post anway, there's really no need to shave off a few characters with potentially troublesome abbreviations.
Hanna, Ship's Navigator - WU Enchantments Control
Wort, the Raidmother - RG Copy ALL the Spells!
Rakdos, Lord of Riots - BR Group Murder-Hug
Reaper King - WUBRG Token Copies
Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker - B Sacrifice Engine
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - BR Randomized Toolbox
Karametra, God of Harvests - GW Ramp
See, if we all did that, the scum just wouldn't post.
It is probably a better tactic to vote him and put some pressure on him, to force him to post & react. Since he is nowhere near being lynched such a vote would be quite acceptable.
Oh, EvilZak is just the typical low-flier lurker option, and then it becomes a quality over quantity type of thing. He seems like good vig fodder, if you ask me.
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
BG = Bad Guy. Sorry for the abbreviations.
Signature - Miraculous Recovery
Avatar - Heroes of the Planes
Fair enough, doubtless as the day develops, there will be those you do not want, and those you do. At this early stage, talk of an actual lynch is pretty speculative.
again, talk of "vig-fodder" is pretty arbitrary. If he added to his two posts, one hopes he would come up with some insight, and lose the lurker guise.
(Handy tip for Evilzak: Post!)
The problem was not him jumping on everyone, its that he had no evidence for accusing anyone, jumping on with claims that don't even make sense, makes you look scummy. The fact that he is using FoS's is beside the point.
I hope I'm not doing this, sorry if I am.
Will do.
In regards to defending LostandtheDamned: I was not coming across as defending him but toward pushing Ced, as he posted a vote from statements out of the random stage.
As it stands my list is...
Ced
Zindabad
Ecophagy
They hate us cause they ain't us.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I wasn't really jumping on everyone. I simply agreed when a good post was made, or pointed out posts that i felt to be suspicious. To me, that's the role of a good townie. Claims that don't make sense? The only claim I made that seems to be in question was of your pseudo day-kill. Maybe I jumped the proverbial gun and read too far into it, maybe I made a mistake and I apologize to you if you're town and that suspicion was falsely laid at your feet...but I will stand by original sentiment that a joke post at that juncture in the game was definitely uncalled for from my perspective, and it unsettled me. We had just finished going through why we felt joke posts were scummy, and you decide to step up and offer yourself a joke post defense...I wanted to bring attention to that. Clearly, my actions haven't brought about the desired effect, but I'd like to think someone else would have found it fishy. I just don't get why I was railroaded about questioning a post that had scummy overtones.
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
My apologies good sir, it seems I did misunderstand your case. I thought you disagreed with LatD, or at least felt his opinion to be scummy. I now see your point and after looking at his post from the angle which you present it, I will once again concur with his attack being weak (hence my FoS earlier and his inclusion on my scum list). Furthermore, after checking his earlier reaction to the clearly random vote, and his inability to post a resposne of late, I think it's time we put some pressure on LatD to answer for his posts.
Unvote, Vote LostandtheDamned
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
In your opinion it was uncalled for, if you don't like jokes in mafia games, fine, but just because doesn't play how you want doesnt mean they are scum, people will play how they like, and it seems like you jumped on the first thing you saw, that smells like scum to me, you tried to make something out of nothing and it didn't work. I don't know why you would even begin to think it was defense, what did I have to defend? I wasn't being accused of anything, your claims have no substance. I'm thinking you only found the post fishy, because you wanted it to be fishy.
I did not jump on the first thing I saw. Many posts were made before hand, and I responded to them in turn. I was the only one on at the moment aside from you and as such thought I'd ask you about it. And I don't think I ever really jumped on it. I had a problem with the post, I asked for clarification, and didn't get it. Asked again, got more information, along with a slew of attention that I feel was unwarranted.
You were defending your joke post. One which you made after we established as a town that joke posts were not pro-town. i'm not the only one who found it fishy --- BigC also put it in one of his posts as something that could have merit if you turn out scum. Clearly I'm not the only one in this town who felt it was out of place. I see now that my reaction to it was not the best it could have been, and perhaps a simple "Noted." would have been sufficient, but I seem to recall being called a fence sitter for not taking stances. I made the decision to stand on that issue, and it didn't work out the way I wanted to.
I find it more amusing that in your tunnel visions OMGUS moments, you have completely disregarded LatD's absence and his previous posts.
Modern: Jund
T1: Remora Gush
MTGS Legacy Tournament #7 2nd
NYSE V Top 8, NYSE X Top 4, NYSE XVIII Top 4
Blue Bell X Top 4
Pro Tour: Philadelphia Day 2
NEV 4 1st, NEV 6 2nd, NEV 7 Top 4, NEV 9 Top 8, NEV 11 Top 8, NEV 13 Top 8
Unvote
Vote: CropCircles for lying
Reading the thread now.