An excuse for what? Not making baseless accusations?
Honestly, I don't see what I'm supposed to use for content when we have absolutely no information about who could be scum or not. Yes, some people haven't been posting as much as others, but again, the game's less than a day old.
Anyway, I'll go and review people's posts person by person.
I vote for poking Frengar.
I think a lot of these accusations so far are far from baseless. I encourage the re-read, they're refreshing.
Sorry for not posting earlier, but I have school from 8 AM to 3 PM and then work from 3 to 8. I can get on the computer occasionally at work, but not to the extent that I can totally read/dissect/post large arguments. I'll be more active over the weekends and certainly late at night.
Until I get home, Unvote, Vote Kman. Sorry, but as a rule, I'm going to vote for people who make very brief posts and get defensive about attacks on them. Give me a valid reason for why you've been acting the way you have been and I'll reconsider my vote. Saying that you're new or that you're a "thinker" isn't what I consider valid, by the way
By the way, I'm not totally sure that people should be FoSing Jqlgrl. When I started observing/playing Mafia, I didn't understand why people jumped on Nolynchers so quickly. It's not a very obvious concept. That said, FoS Jqlgrl, because I'm not totally sure if you are a new player, as sometimes people have played on other sites and I haven't read all of your other Mafia posts here.
you guys are voting for the wrong person. i never post much because i feel like everything has already been said. jodoyodo asked me what i thought of manbearpig so; i don't think hes part of the mafia if hes willy, considering willy isn't a bad character on the show.
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*reads subsequent post*
Yes, I guess your right. I don't particularly like her justification of the FoS on me, but whatever.
I find it weird because he was seeing something in a joke - why would he?
Half way through my reread, and I wanna stop and answer some questions.
@JodoYodo: I haven't played in many games with MBP, so I can't tell if this is normal for him. That shouldn't detract from the scumminess of it all though.
In response to the quoted bit from MBP, I justified my EER analysis before. I said in the first post that I had played one other game with EER where he acted erratically and kinda RPed in the game. EER has the potential for mild RPing, and I knew this. Even if it was a joke, I knew it was still possible, and it was clearly scottish. It just stuck out like a sore thumb to me, and I thought I would mention it. I have justified my reasoning earlier.
Finishing my reread now.
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Underrated, Overlooked
Thanks to THEY DID WHAT!? For the sweet banner!
Games played:3, 1 ongoing Times Town: 1, with 1 win Times Scum: 1, with 1 loss
ok, sorry for the short post, but there's a lighting storm outside, and i don't wanna ruin my comp.
the whole willy thng is completely wrong. i was spelling wrong as a joke.
i'll try to catch up as soon as the storm passes.
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When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire!
"Only dead fish go with the flow"
Holy crap, the last time I heard philosophizing this bad it was from EER in newb 17. It's a game. You play games to win. If you're not playing to win, you're playing badly.
EBWODP: FoS Krowzy and Jqlgirl for voting kman. I haven't seen much out of kman, and while that is a bad thing, I don't think it's reason enough to vote him.
I would also like MBP to answer the questions against him, since I don't think he has yet.
Oh, and his little "don't kill me!" post doesn't make sense. He has two people on him, and he has revealed that he is not the Cop or the Doc. In the last noob game, anyone who was not a cop or doc was vanilla.
So, what MBP is saying is that he is not the cop or doc, but is important to the town in some way. He did this all under very little vote pressure. This doesn't sit well with me.
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Underrated, Overlooked
Thanks to THEY DID WHAT!? For the sweet banner!
Games played:3, 1 ongoing Times Town: 1, with 1 win Times Scum: 1, with 1 loss
ok, sorry for the short post, but there's a lighting storm outside, and i don't wanna ruin my comp.
the whole willy thng is completely wrong. i was spelling wrong as a joke.
i'll try to catch up as soon as the storm passes.
Regardless, we still have a great amount of information from it, seeing as how it has sparked debate.
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Underrated, Overlooked
Thanks to THEY DID WHAT!? For the sweet banner!
Games played:3, 1 ongoing Times Town: 1, with 1 win Times Scum: 1, with 1 loss
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
It's not like he's up to 5 votes or something. I'm just trying to get some of the players here to think about players who haven't been discussed much. My gut still tells me something is up with him, and at this point on day 1, that's as much to go on as anything else.
But again, being new.. perhaps I'm jumping on my suspicions too quickly...
I'll think about kman some more.. I may unvote and re FoS instead.
i was discussed in the last page. if you look at my posts any where on this website you'll see i don't post much. i think you're just playing the game in that "i'll vote for anyone thats not me" mood since you voted for mbp earlier just cause everyone else was.
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For those wondering about my lack of posts, I work graveyard shift and thus am asleep during the day. The big blocks of discussion this game have been during my sleepy time. This will be the way of it for me throughout the game. As a general rule you will not see me post during the day.
Ok, now that that's out of the way, time to comment on what I've seen thus far in the game.
Man Bear Pig
Again makes a comment that it's weird for BigTime to be reading so much into a random post, despite saying earlier that there was something to BigTime's posts during the random phase. Eventually he backs off, since his weak case on BigTime is drawing far more pressure onto himself than BigTime. However, he still does not explain what the "scummy actions" are that BigTime made. The whole "Oh, and don't lynch me 'cuz I'm important" bit bothers me. It seems like an attempt to get out from under the microscope.
kman1474
I don't like the way he's been playing the "innocent noob" card. He continues to be very defensive whenever someone calls him on it. His posts are all very short and pointless, basically consisting of "I'm town because I say I am". Also makes a serious OMGUS post in #137. It's not even subtle either. It's straight up "You're voting me, so either you're crazy or you're mafia".
JqlGirl
At first I was just thinking that she was being genuinely noob-ish, but she's been actively playing the noob card a lot as well. Still, her posts strike me as a lot more genuinely noob than kman1474's.
I'm going to go ahead and vote Man Bear Pig. I still want to hear an explanation of what BigTime's "scummy actions" were.
@MBP: hey man, i paid for this comp. idk what your financial state is, but i like to keep from unnecessary spend, m'kay?
[the whole willy accent just doesn't even like make sense. if'ns you were asking me, that sounds chinese, which gets away from the point of me poking fun at spelling.]
MBP's OMGUS vote on BT was very scummy. he accused BT of doing that, but there wasn't a hint of OMGUS in BT's vote/case thing. [hint for MBP: OMGUS implies that the OMGUS-er was voted by the other person first.] which brings us back full circle, you OMGUS voted for BT.
you also haven't answered any of teh questions directed towards you.
MBP is the obvious scum. Vote ManBearPig.
[oh, and me name isn't that hard to spell, specially when you just say EER. i see that someone even messed up with that. thnxz sneaky for your correct spelling.]
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"Only dead fish go with the flow"
Holy crap, the last time I heard philosophizing this bad it was from EER in newb 17. It's a game. You play games to win. If you're not playing to win, you're playing badly.
what do you want to hear? you're crazy to be voting for me unless you're mafia.
I certainly don't think that people accusing you are crazy, because you've been acting pretty scummy so far. Like I said, your posts are all very brief and dismissive, and are playing very reactively when, as a town, you should probably be pursuing leads and trying to find the scum.
im an innocent noob that has nothing to hide. whats so hard to understand?
I mean, maybe you're new to game, but I'm quite tired of hearing the "I'm an innocent noob" or "I don't post much because I'm a thinker" lines if you're accused of something or asked to more constructively participate. You seem to like to sit back, watch, and post only when you are attack, a significant scum tell.
This was in response to Caex Kothar's post, who agreed with Jodo's suspicion of BT when he said he thought he had a hunch about EER. At the time, BT's post was kind of suspicious, considering he claimed he had a hunch about a player, who up until that point, had barely even taken part in discussion. The point being, you quickly jumped of Caex Kothar with no legitamate reason to. This is pretty scummy, as well. I mean, you never even followed the possible lead. If you thought he was scummy, why did you just give up?
i am scared of everyone. i am more scared of the people who have played this before though.
I guess it might be intimidating for a new player to be in the same game as an experienced one, but it isn't really reason for alarm. Being scared of everyone is a bit suspicious. You have nothing to hide, as you said before, so why are you so frightened?
you can not buy my vote with a cookie, but maybe pie. if you've played 4 of these than maybe you have to much skill to be playing in a n00b game. vote jodoyodo.
Another one of these scared posts you seem to have tied yourself to at this point. Maybe this was just random or attempt at humor, but I believe (and someone stated before) that randomness is never random.
I'd like you to post a defense of yourself that's not something akin to the defenses you've already been using ("I'm an innocent noob", "You're crazy if you think I'm mafia", etc.). I myself am a thinker, but am able to apply my thoughts to posts. If you genuinely are town, I'd like you to give me a reason why I should believe that.
i've read this entire thread again and i have come to some conclusions but first does anyone know how many townies and mafia members there are or is that something we can only guess at?
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you keep saying you have a good feeling im scum but you never give a reason why i actual would be besides the fact that i don't post much. you fos'd me earlier then when krowzy agreed with you you decided to vote for me like you were glad he agreed with you as if you were both scum. i strongly beleive that jqlgirl and krowzy are scum. fos jqlgirl and krowzy. unvote.
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you keep saying you have a good feeling im scum but you never give a reason why i actual would be besides the fact that i don't post much. you fos'd me earlier then when krowzy agreed with you you decided to vote for me like you were glad he agreed with you as if you were both scum. i strongly beleive that jqlgirl and krowzy are scum. fos jqlgirl and krowzy. unvote.
Actually, a few players have given reasons for us suspecting you are scum. Including your posts saying "You're crazy for voting for me unless you're scum!" and playing the "n00b" card too often.
It looks to me like you're just trying to throw attention away from yourself and on to those two. Which means you get a FoS: Kman1474
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
First of all I would like to applogise for my role list. In the last game of mafia I played there was a finite number of likely characters(In my mind much like this one) and the list that was generated(not by me) end up being used quite effectively in the town's favour.
UnFOS:Sneakyhomonculus
Man Bear Pig:
Currently I am still unconvinced of MBP's innocence. He explained his reasons for being suspicious of the Willy post, but still had not stated what other reasons he had for calling BT scummy. Additionally the whole don't lynch me because i'm important thing strikes me as off especially in a newb game not likely to have roles that are not cops or docs, which he claims not to be. FOS Stands
Jqlgirl & Kman
Both seem to be using alot of OMGUS and kneejerk reactionary tactics,
of the two I am more inclined to suspect jql. Her willingness to change her vote or FOS in response to a single post without posting any reasoning beyond agreeing with what everyone else posts strikes me as scummy
Interesting... very interesting.
While you could be right, it seems like you are grasping at air.
Combined with your previous posts (which, admittedly could be seen as scummy or joking), I think this warrants atleast an FoS. FoS BigTime
No vote from me, in case you pull an iLord and are right.
This was in response to BT's supposed inside knowledge. Although at first BT's "hunch" seemed scummy (just a post saying "I think I know who EER is"), the reason he claimed for posting it cleared most things up IMO. I know this was just a FoS, but claiming that BT was "grasping at straws" seems like you were trying to portray BT in a very scummy light, when at the time, he didn't really deserve it. IMO, the Willy hunch was fairly clever, even though it wouldn't really have yielded any real information.
EBWODP: My previous post is in reference to BT's post #44.
Additionally, the "I know it is not committing" comment strikes me as scummy as well.
Further discussion on BT's hunch. I believe that BT not wanting to fully commit to a belief was necessarily scummy, but I can see where you're coming from here.
This whole post seems to strike me as very OMGUSish, as I don't see any very good points against me.
I'll bring up the post I mentioned tomorrow, it is very late here >.<
Until then, Vote BigTime
After saying a vote is very OMGUS-ish, you OMGUS vote right back at BT. This certainly seems scummy, and was the first time I really believe that you could be scum.
Yes, I do have a style - Sorry about that.
My main scum point against BT was the fact that he was seeing a kind of character claim* in EER's random post, where he voted sneaky. This seemed to me like a really weird thing to see in that.
*Note: I have never watched Simpsons, and never will. Point being: Don't ask me about flavor questions.
Even after hearing out BT's reasoning for why he character guessed EER, you still call it really weird. There wasn't anything inherently scummy in BT's hunch, and to call it your main point of voting BT as scum was weird, if not scummy in and of itself.
Alright, alright - I see your point. What I saw as suspicious, everyone else saw as nothing. EER's semiclaim didn't sound like a scottish accent at all to me, and I have no idea who the heck Willy is. So, because of that, I thought it suspicious that BT saw something in that. Basically, what I think happened was that BT saw the message in that, and I didn't. Because I didn't, I found BT suspicious (kinda like stratego). Now that a number of people have pointed out what he saw in that post, I don't find it suspicious anymore. Unvote.
One last thing - I know people will find this post suspicious. I have one request, however: Don't lynch me, if at all, until day 2. If I am forced to claim, you will see why.
Wow, this last part was a stunner. I really have no clue as to why you would post that, considering, it's a giant bullseye for scum.
Although you did retract suspicion of BT, this last statement baffles me beyond belief. I thought cop and doc were the only roles in newb games, and maybe occasionally roleblocker, but I just can't imagine why you would let out information regarding a role that seems to be powerful (how could doc or cop be so significant after day 1?).
Kind of a bad move, if not just a scummy one, because if you do have a role that can be important for a town victory, why would you reveal anything about it, considering you'd already known you would draw suspicion?
Overall, I don't think your actions warrant a vote at this time, but for now I think a FoS ManBearPig will do.
@Kman: I gave my reasons for believing you to be scum. It's not just that you don't post much. Reread my post please, and defend yourself if able.
Also, I will FoS Jqlgirl. You have been agreeing with me, so you might be surprised by this, but your reasons for FoSing and Voting people seem to be because others are doing it. I can understand that other people have just already said what's needed to be said in your mind, but like Evil_Home said, you seem to be a bit prone to OMGUS and dismissive reactions. I was going to say you might want to stay away from the newb excuse, but you've already adressed that, decreasing your scumminess in my eyes.
Oh, and his little "don't kill me!" post doesn't make sense. He has two people on him, and he has revealed that he is not the Cop or the Doc. In the last noob game, anyone who was not a cop or doc was vanilla.
Think about this a bit harder. There's an explanation if you think about MBP being crafty.
@kman1474: If there're any less or more than 3 mafia in this game I'll be surprised. General rule is 25%. Also, it was EER that we thought was Willy, not MBP.
Okay people, I think it's gotten to the point where I want MBP to claim.
I want to see how many others agree with this. And additionally, we shouldn't vote for him until he agrees/disagrees with a claim. We don't need to speedlynch at this point.
And kman1474 isn't doing so hot in my book. He's definitely now the #2 spot on my scumlist.
Also people, please stop using the noob card. If you're a noob, you've told us by now. If you want to ask questions about the game, go ahead, it's a learning process, but stop hiding behind the noob card. Anyone using it like a credit card is automatically scummy in my book.
Meh, four people voting me. Probably wanting me to claim as well.
Here it is:
I am Homer Simpson. I am really pissed off because my son is missing. I have a one-shot vig ability.
That was why I was saying "if you are going to lynch me, wait till day two". By doing that, I can get a kill off, or wait till ther are fewer people and thus have a greater chance of hitting scum.
Meh, four people voting me. Probably wanting me to claim as well.
Here it is:
I am Homer Simpson. I am really pissed off because my son is missing. I have a one-shot vig ability.
That was why I was saying "if you are going to lynch me, wait till day two". By doing that, I can get a kill off, or wait till ther are fewer people and thus have a greater chance of hitting scum.
That's more than good enough for me, unless someone counterclaims, which is ballsy since Homer is a big character.
For those of you who think that a 1-shot Vig is not in a newbie game, I'm going to state this right now: THIS IS NOT A REGULAR NEWBIE GAME. I'm not going to say much but I'm 100% sure of this. If you trust me, you can trust this statement. I believe MBP.
To everyone: MBP is a very likely NK target tonight, for two reasons:
1) He has a powerful ability in a mini
2) He's the only pseudo-confirmed town now
DO NOT call out targets for MBP to vig. Let MBP decide this on his own. If he's paying attention he will hit who the majority want us to hit anyways. By saying "Hey MBP hit ______" we're doing nothing except hinting to scum who MBP will hit. If that person is scum, they might roleblock him, and if that person is town, then they'll hit someone else, giving them a TWO KILL night. So DO NOT call out vig targets.
If the doc wants to protect me once we decide to end the day, unless the cop has claimed by then, do it. I would prefer to use my kill later in the game, instead of taking a 3 out of 11 (or 2 out of 10) chance that I hit a scum.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
spotofprey said that i should tell you guys im going to be out of town sunday until wednesday and i probably won't have access to a computer just so you guys know.
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Jodo, this is mainly directed at you since I think you have the most experience:
Should I wait to kill till a different night, or try to hit scum tonight. I don't want to hit a townie, and it seems like I would have a greater chance on say, night 2 or 3.
Other people can answer this as well.
i really don't know how to make you guys trust me. i've told how i've felt about krowzy and jqlgirl and how i think they are both scum but of course i have no proof but neither do they for voting for me. this game is still at the point of just pointless blaming and i seem to be getting all of the blame now that mbp has said that he is homer. i will be happy to give everyone my word as a magic player that i am not scum.
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Holy crap, the last time I heard philosophizing this bad it was from EER in newb 17. It's a game. You play games to win. If you're not playing to win, you're playing badly.
Hmm, time for a re-read. Though it still does not sit well with me that Man Bear Pig has completely ignored repeated calls to explain his read on BigTime's early posts.
Jodo, this is mainly directed at you since I think you have the most experience:
Should I wait to kill till a different night, or try to hit scum tonight. I don't want to hit a townie, and it seems like I would have a greater chance on say, night 2 or 3.
Other people can answer this as well.
I'm not too sure on this. I don't have much (read: zero) experience with vigs. Unless cop claims, you're probably the doc target of the night, so I think it's safe for you for at least night 1. We don't want to waste your ability too hastily. I'd like the rest of the town to discuss this.
Despite kman's absence, I really think he's scum. We can discuss this on Wednesday, I guess... that's a long time =( Time to reread. I advise everyone do so as well and take physical notes.
I'm not too sure on this. I don't have much (read: zero) experience with vigs. Unless cop claims, you're probably the doc target of the night, so I think it's safe for you for at least night 1. We don't want to waste your ability too hastily. I'd like the rest of the town to discuss this.
Despite kman's absence, I really think he's scum. We can discuss this on Wednesday, I guess... that's a long time =( Time to reread. I advise everyone do so as well and take physical notes.
@EER: You make a very good point regarding vigs.
you can discuss how im scum now if you want. i just won't be here to hear you guys call me scum sunday through wednesday.
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Wow... so much discussion with no real information to go on....
Ugh... I'll just keep an open mind for now and suggest a No Lynch vote. Unvote Vote: No Lynch. FoS: Man Bear Pig - everyone else is doing it!
Nonsensical. Votes for NL, but has suspicion on someone. If it's fake suspicion, it's a distraction and bad for the town. If it's real suspicion, it contradicts her FoS. Also, bad for the town.
I voted No Lynch for the moment to show that I have no real suspicions about anyone in particular, but I am participating and following the discussion, as opposed to voting for someone for no real reason or seeming like I'm not participating.
I FoS'd MBP mostly as joke. I just worked all night and so my mind is a bit loopy at the moment. Others do have good reasons for being suspicious of him, though, so I was showing my agreement with their generalized suspicion.
This is my first Mafia game, so I have a lot to learn, especially about when to FoS or vote No Lynch or whatever... cut me a bit of slack please.
Unvote.
Justifies NL vote. Explains FoS. Again, this contradicts. She says she realizes that other people suspicion MBP, and she is acknowledging that she agrees with the suspicion. But she still says she doesn't suspect anybody? Then plays the noob card for the first time.
Again, I apologize for my inexperience here. But everyone was a n00b at one point, right?
MBP: I never voted for you, I FoS'd you, and now I regret I did that as I really don't see any evidence pointing at anyone in particular being scum. So I'll hold my tongue for now and just observe.
I'd like to see some more posts from the other people who haven't posted much yet.
Can we get a post count/list?
Noob card #2. Explains how she never suspicioned MBP by telling him she only FoSed him? I can't see how this is good for the town. If you don't feel like someone is scum, don't vote or FoS them. It's that simple. She is following the crowd, but only nonchalently. Also, I see the last bit of this post as a distraction tactic from MBP, pointing fingers at easy targets: people who never show!
An excuse for what? Not making baseless accusations?
Honestly, I don't see what I'm supposed to use for content when we have absolutely no information about who could be scum or not. Yes, some people haven't been posting as much as others, but again, the game's less than a day old.
Anyway, I'll go and review people's posts person by person.
I vote for poking Frengar.
Claims to have no content due to lack of information. I can write this off as newb mistake. You are supposed to find content. Pokes Frengar (which I fully support! Where is he?), and decides to go hunting for clues.
Ok.
Upon reviewing the thread to date, I have come to a conclusion. FoS: kman1474 - kman always seems very defensive and never makes posts longer than a sentence or two.
Something about the way he's acting here just rubs me the wrong way.
Also, I like proper capitalization on forums, but that's just icing on the FoS cake, not a reason why I'm FoSing kman.
Looks like she tried to find somebody. I must say though, this is a poor sample. Up to this point, I don't think kman was making a name for himself at all. He was neutral in my book. FoSing him for not posting longer is a very scummy reason to suspicion somebody. She says he isn't posting enough, but what he does post is scummy. Personally, I haven't been able to really truly read kman (but I will in a minute! ;)). Mutters something about capitalization.
It's not like he's up to 5 votes or something. I'm just trying to get some of the players here to think about players who haven't been discussed much. My gut still tells me something is up with him, and at this point on day 1, that's as much to go on as anything else.
But again, being new.. perhaps I'm jumping on my suspicions too quickly...
I'll think about kman some more.. I may unvote and re FoS instead.
No, he's not up to five votes, but considering the case on him is built around weak and scummy arguments, I think your vote is unjustified and scummy. There is a good reason he has not been dicussed much, and that's because he hasen't posted much. By your reasoning, we should be voting Frengar, since he hasen't posted AT ALL. Low post counts are a poor reason to vote somebody this early in the game.
I did not vote for MBP. I FoSed him. And so far, you're looking a lot more scummy to me than Man Bear Pig is. If you can give me a convincing reason to change my vote, I will.
Again, clears that she did not vote for MBP. This still feels like she is shifting attention away from MBP.
EER makes some good points about MBP, and thus I shall FoS: ManBearPig until he answers some of the questions directed against him.
I would suspect that MBP and kman are both scum, but I'm getting a stronger feeling about kman, so I'm keeping my vote on him for now.
I'm gonna call this newb card 4. Even though she apoligizes, she should instead just stop mentioning it altogether. Suddenly decides that MBP is scum. This is a drastic change in attitude, seeing as how she was incredibly set that MBP was innocent. Suddenly EER pops up and MBP is scum? That's weird...
All right: I'm going to lay out my case against kman since people seem to be thinking I'm scummy for just agreeing with others.
The use of the phrase "innocent noob" here and the very defensive nature without any real rebuttal the accusations against him strikes me as quite scummy.
Kman is always quick to turn a line of questioning or any suspicion back on the person who's nosing around him. Again, this feels scummy to me.
I don't follow his logic on how having someone agree with me would make me and the person that agreed with me scum.
Finally: kman hasn't made any observations or accusations other than against people who have been suspicious of him.
I hope this will clear up my case against him. Is it proof he's scum? No, but it makes him more scummy in my books than anyone else in this game.
Says kman never argues the accusations against him. From this collection of posts, I can't see that JqlGirl ever accused him of anything other than posting very little. Says it's scummy that kman FoSes those attacking him, which may be, but considering the baselessness of this case, I think he is justified. Says she doesn't understand how she and her helper could be scum. Easy: your scumbuddies. You agree on lynching any town! But that's not my opinion, that's what I understood kman's argument as. Also says kman is only attacking his attackers. I'll get to that later.
Note that she finishes that last point by saying that none of this makes him scum, but he just looks kinda scummy. If none of it makes him scum WHY VOTE HIM?
All in all, I have not been impressed with the JglGirl situation. I have been caught up in the MBP case too much to really give this full thought, but here it is now.
A quick little exerpt from my thoughts on MBP: We keep saying that the mafia members may not be so obvious. So what means the townies WILL be obvious. I know that my role isn't very obvious, at least not to me. Maybe it's just me, but MBP's claim is very unsetteling.
On to kman's case, and while I'm at it, Krowzy.
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Games played:3, 1 ongoing Times Town: 1, with 1 win Times Scum: 1, with 1 loss
i am scared of everyone. i am more scared of the people who have played this before though.
Aww, that's ok. Think of me like the Dentist. If I check you out and you are clean, we don't have a problem. If there's a cavity, you should know that I don't use painkillers. Oh, and consider this newb card #1
i don't care. i have nothing to hide. fos jqlgirl i don't like how she voted for mbp just cause it wasn't her and i don't like how she voted no lynch when lynching is very essential to this game for everyone.
Has an FoS here, but for some pretty solid reasons. This is not a JqlGirl move, FoSing because its the in thing to do.
you guys are voting for the wrong person. i never post much because i feel like everything has already been said. jodoyodo asked me what i thought of manbearpig so; i don't think hes part of the mafia if hes willy, considering willy isn't a bad character on the show.
I think kman is confused at this point. He thinks that we are calling MBP Willy, but that was never the case all along. I see this as proof of his extreme newbieness.
i was discussed in the last page. if you look at my posts any where on this website you'll see i don't post much. i think you're just playing the game in that "i'll vote for anyone thats not me" mood since you voted for mbp earlier just cause everyone else was.
Makes a fairly solid attack on JqlGirl, which I don't think I saw a response to. Also, justifies a lack of posting. I don't really see slow playstyle as good justification for a vote...
well i don't know what to say unless you just want me to put blame on someone else which i won't do.
This strikes me as incredibly opposite JqlGirl. She throws her vote/suspicion around on anyone for any reason that looks good at the time. kman strictly says he won't vote/suspicion anyone unless they deserve it.
i've read this entire thread again and i have come to some conclusions but first does anyone know how many townies and mafia members there are or is that something we can only guess at?
Well, in a twelve man game, you can bet 3-4 mafia members. More than likely 3. But I can kinda see where this is going: Formulating a scum team perhaps. I'll admit, it's a bit easier to do in a newb game, but Day One? Slow your roll buddy.
you keep saying you have a good feeling im scum but you never give a reason why i actual would be besides the fact that i don't post much. you fos'd me earlier then when krowzy agreed with you you decided to vote for me like you were glad he agreed with you as if you were both scum. i strongly beleive that jqlgirl and krowzy are scum. fos jqlgirl and krowzy. unvote.
Justifies the scumteam thoughts, although provides sufficent reasoning to believe so. I need to read up on Krowzy, so I won't say much else, other than putting together scumteams this early can backfire. It's not exactly very scummy, but it can DEFINETLY backfire.
spotofprey said that i should tell you guys im going to be out of town sunday until wednesday and i probably won't have access to a computer just so you guys know.
i really don't know how to make you guys trust me. i've told how i've felt about krowzy and jqlgirl and how i think they are both scum but of course i have no proof but neither do they for voting for me. this game is still at the point of just pointless blaming and i seem to be getting all of the blame now that mbp has said that he is homer. i will be happy to give everyone my word as a magic player that i am not scum.
Scout's honor? No, but really, it takes seven (I think?) votes to get you killed. One or two votes here and there won't really hurt you. Besides, if someone did decide to kill you while you were away, they would become Scumlist#1. I don't think a ton of people really suspicion you, otherwise you would have more votes.
you can discuss how im scum now if you want. i just won't be here to hear you guys call me scum sunday through wednesday.
Discussion finished in my mind.
All in all, kman does a few scummy things, but certinely not enouogh to warrent a vote. Most of it is comprised of his newb cards, which he hands out like hotcakes. His votes and reasoning seem pretty solid to me, and after going over JqlGirl, the case on him seems incredibly baseless. Seems town to me.
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Wow, a lot happens over one night I guess. This thread was in the random stage at 2 pages last night, and now it's 5 pages with some substance.
I still have to get a little bit of reading done between BT's and MBP's, so I'll reserve judgement until later in the day. For now I'd like to ask EER; why did you post in what looked like an accent" Were you just pointing out a mispelling, or acting in role? I'm just curious, as neither answer really suggests anything, as we don't fully know how role flavor translates into the game.
Also, I've been reading Kman's posts, because all are kind of short, and follow a pattern of general fear. I could chalk this up to the sometimes awkward actions of newer players, but I thought it would be worthy of bringing up.
Gets onto EER over the accent. Turns out it was nothing! Also notes kman's posts, saying they are noteworthy, but never explains why.
Sorry for not posting earlier, but I have school from 8 AM to 3 PM and then work from 3 to 8. I can get on the computer occasionally at work, but not to the extent that I can totally read/dissect/post large arguments. I'll be more active over the weekends and certainly late at night.
Until I get home, Unvote, Vote Kman. Sorry, but as a rule, I'm going to vote for people who make very brief posts and get defensive about attacks on them. Give me a valid reason for why you've been acting the way you have been and I'll reconsider my vote. Saying that you're new or that you're a "thinker" isn't what I consider valid, by the way
By the way, I'm not totally sure that people should be FoSing Jqlgrl. When I started observing/playing Mafia, I didn't understand why people jumped on Nolynchers so quickly. It's not a very obvious concept. That said, FoS Jqlgrl, because I'm not totally sure if you are a new player, as sometimes people have played on other sites and I haven't read all of your other Mafia posts here.
Votes kman, saying it's a "rule" to vote people who make short posts, and who defend themselves when attacked. Didn't see that one in the Mafia Handbook. Then says people shouldn't FoS JqlGirl, then within a single sentance, FoSes her himself. ???? WTF? Claims it's because he doesn't believe she hasen't played mafia before. WTF?! Scummy...
I certainly don't think that people accusing you are crazy, because you've been acting pretty scummy so far. Like I said, your posts are all very brief and dismissive, and are playing very reactively when, as a town, you should probably be pursuing leads and trying to find the scum.
I mean, maybe you're new to game, but I'm quite tired of hearing the "I'm an innocent noob" or "I don't post much because I'm a thinker" lines if you're accused of something or asked to more constructively participate. You seem to like to sit back, watch, and post only when you are attack, a significant scum tell.
This was in response to Caex Kothar's post, who agreed with Jodo's suspicion of BT when he said he thought he had a hunch about EER. At the time, BT's post was kind of suspicious, considering he claimed he had a hunch about a player, who up until that point, had barely even taken part in discussion. The point being, you quickly jumped of Caex Kothar with no legitamate reason to. This is pretty scummy, as well. I mean, you never even followed the possible lead. If you thought he was scummy, why did you just give up?
I guess it might be intimidating for a new player to be in the same game as an experienced one, but it isn't really reason for alarm. Being scared of everyone is a bit suspicious. You have nothing to hide, as you said before, so why are you so frightened?
Another one of these scared posts you seem to have tied yourself to at this point. Maybe this was just random or attempt at humor, but I believe (and someone stated before) that randomness is never random.
I'd like you to post a defense of yourself that's not something akin to the defenses you've already been using ("I'm an innocent noob", "You're crazy if you think I'm mafia", etc.). I myself am a thinker, but am able to apply my thoughts to posts. If you genuinely are town, I'd like you to give me a reason why I should believe that.
First, calls kman scummy for trying to defend himself instead of finding scum. You have to give the chance to defend himself! The second paragraph reminds me of Loran: "Planning on adding any content CC?". (Loran was scum there, FYI.) Tried to back kman in a corner by attacking him for calling someone scummy (see kman's post page 4 I believe). This post isn't kman's best, but I think asserting that he backed down from an attack is the wrong approach to take. He then takes MBP's random point and puts it to poor use, assuming that that kman's newb posts are still random humor. Never assume kiddos. Never assume. The last paragraph comes off as a bit of WIFOM to me. Not impressed by this post at all.
Reread the MBP accusations, posting my take on it.
This was in response to BT's supposed inside knowledge. Although at first BT's "hunch" seemed scummy (just a post saying "I think I know who EER is"), the reason he claimed for posting it cleared most things up IMO. I know this was just a FoS, but claiming that BT was "grasping at straws" seems like you were trying to portray BT in a very scummy light, when at the time, he didn't really deserve it. IMO, the Willy hunch was fairly clever, even though it wouldn't really have yielded any real information.
Further discussion on BT's hunch. I believe that BT not wanting to fully commit to a belief was necessarily scummy, but I can see where you're coming from here.
After saying a vote is very OMGUS-ish, you OMGUS vote right back at BT. This certainly seems scummy, and was the first time I really believe that you could be scum.
Even after hearing out BT's reasoning for why he character guessed EER, you still call it really weird. There wasn't anything inherently scummy in BT's hunch, and to call it your main point of voting BT as scum was weird, if not scummy in and of itself.
Wow, this last part was a stunner. I really have no clue as to why you would post that, considering, it's a giant bullseye for scum.
Although you did retract suspicion of BT, this last statement baffles me beyond belief. I thought cop and doc were the only roles in newb games, and maybe occasionally roleblocker, but I just can't imagine why you would let out information regarding a role that seems to be powerful (how could doc or cop be so significant after day 1?).
Kind of a bad move, if not just a scummy one, because if you do have a role that can be important for a town victory, why would you reveal anything about it, considering you'd already known you would draw suspicion?
Overall, I don't think your actions warrant a vote at this time, but for now I think a FoS ManBearPig will do.
@Kman: I gave my reasons for believing you to be scum. It's not just that you don't post much. Reread my post please, and defend yourself if able.
Also, I will FoS Jqlgirl. You have been agreeing with me, so you might be surprised by this, but your reasons for FoSing and Voting people seem to be because others are doing it. I can understand that other people have just already said what's needed to be said in your mind, but like Evil_Home said, you seem to be a bit prone to OMGUS and dismissive reactions. I was going to say you might want to stay away from the newb excuse, but you've already adressed that, decreasing your scumminess in my eyes.
Displays a fairly good understanding of the MBP case and has some solid points on it. Still gets onto kman for not defending himself well enough. Then, and this is interesting, he targets JqlGirl. He attacks her for what seem like the right reasons, but then he TOO contradicts himself. He FoSes, but at the end of the post says her scumminess has decreased in his eyes. That's incredibly backwards.
Okay, you're cleared by me, MBP. I'm surprised that there's a Vig. in this game as well.
Un-FoS MBP
Takes MBP at full value, never looks back.
I want the town to realize here that just because MBP's claim has been solid so far doesn't mean he isn't scum. It's highly unlikely that he is, but realize that it isn't 100%. Frengar hasen't even showed yet, and he could be Homer.
MBP's actions are still scummy, the only thing that has changed is his claim. Since that is solid to this point, I see no reason to risk lynching a town member. Don't let that detract from MBP's earlier scumtells.
Ok, so after my marathon Quad-postage there, I feel comfortable with a Vote JqlGirl, Mild FoS Krowzy.
It's now 3:30 in the morn. I'm tired. I did this because it's all been spinning in my head the whole day, and I never had access to a computer. Sorry town, for making you read so much, but I hope there is helpful information in there.
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Games played:3, 1 ongoing Times Town: 1, with 1 win Times Scum: 1, with 1 loss
Dammit, every time I thought I had finished my re-read another Wall-o-Text popped up courtesy of BigTime. Of course it would have been easier if we weren't shorthanded here at work. Makes it hard to focus on the mafia game.
Your read on JqlGirl vs. your read on kman1474 is interesting. My initial read on JqlGirl was that she was noob-ish and trying too hard to participate (and poorly at that). But I have to admit I find your case compelling. In particular, something that has caught my interest was her comment about kman only attacking people who are looking closely at him. Both myself and JodoYodo have commented on kman's play thus far, and neither of us have been attacked by him. kman has only attacked those who were aggressively pursuing him with little to go on, particularly considering how much more scummy Man Bear Pig had been playing. Also, the bit about EER's post convincing her to warm up to the Man Bear Pig wagon is very odd, since all EER did was reiterate points that were already made.
Work is catching up to me again, so I'm gonna have to cut this short. I'll try to finish up reading the krowzy stuff and post again after I get off work in a couple of hours.
Okay, got away from work. 12 hours shifts are a pain, but the extra days off make it worth it.
kman1474
The thing that bugged me most about his posts was that his noob cards were being played preemptively. By BigTime's counting, he'd already played three of them before he got a single FoS (I believe the first was from sneakyhomunculus). He just seemed to be going out of his way to convince people he was an "innocent noob" before he even got any real pressure on him. I suppose this could be a play style thing, but if it is it's not a good one. In anything besides a noob mafia game I doubt it would get him very far.
JqlGirl
I really would like to think Jql was just trying too hard and getting scrutinized over it. But it's getting harder to think that. While BigTime was incorrect that Jql was set on MBP being innocent (as Jql pointed out in her last post), what she was set on was that she had no suspicion of MBP. The point, however, is still valid: she changed from "no suspicion" to "FoS" based on a post by EER that added no new insight to the case. She's also really quick to resort to an appeal to sympathy when hit with a play-by-play analysis, rather than try to defend herself.
krowzy
Not sure about krowzy. Jql has been getting more push back from kman than krowzy, so there's more reactions to judge from with her. The second and third posts do look fairly bad, but the fourth one looks better, as BigTime pointed out. As far as BigTime's analysis of the fourth post goes, I don't think it's so much the logic that's backwards as the sentence order. I read that paragraph to mean that he thought Jql's backing off of the noob card was good, but not enough to remove all doubt. The last post is pretty naive, I agree. MBP may escape the lynch today, but he's not entirely cleared.
Man Bear Pig
No counter-claim lends credibility at least to his identity. Whether or not he's been truthful about the role remains to be seen. ea er refta's assessment on potential outcomes of that is pretty good. I still, however, am suspicious of his play up to this point, particularly since he seems dead set on keeping quiet about the rest of his earlier accusations toward BigTime.
For now, unvote Man Bear Pig and downgrade it to a FoS Man Bear Pig. Would like to hear more from JqlGirl and krowzy.
Getting too tired to mess with this anymore. Will check back in tonight. ZZzzz...
Media is not making me steal. But in a way is like the story of the very hot girl with the short skirt teasing the old sick guy with a history of rape.
Holy crap, the last time I heard philosophizing this bad it was from EER in newb 17. It's a game. You play games to win. If you're not playing to win, you're playing badly.
Eh looks like some Americans are going for their Spring Break partay? Waiting until Tuesday/Wednesday to do anything is kinda dull but we can let discussion abound. Apologies beforehand to Frenger for us going wild and posting everywhere.
I would like to ask for some things:
1. We do not lynch anyone until Frenger has given us his opinions
2. We do not lynch anyone until kman and EER return
3. Stop using the 'I swear it on my _________' excuse, that's a low blow defence and can garner you a bad reputation here if you're lying
Sigh. I don't like waiting for 4 days until we do stuff, but not having voting information on someone who I think is scummy (kman) is pretty critical. We can slow down our post rate and chillax and re-read to compensate. Do my requests sound reasonable? I definitely need a re-read of the last few pages, and I won't be able to do it properly until Monday.
With regards to my early posts and the No Lynch stuff, put it down to newness and trying to feel out how to play the game.
As for repeatedly bringing up that I FoSed MBP rather than voting for him, I wasn't trying to shift suspicion away from him, I was just trying to be misunderstood in my intentions. At the time, I had no strong feelings toward anyone in particular, and the case others were making against MBP was relatively solid, so I posted an FoS to show that I thought there were cogent points. Perhaps my attempt at adding a splash of humour to that act was poorly thought out.
As for my case against kman, yes, it's not strong, and a lot of it is based on gut feelings and the like. Perhaps I just let my desire to find someone to suspect led me to focus too heavily on him, and then he and I got into a bit of an argument, so things escalated.
At this point, since many people are retracting votes and the like and seeming ready to give serious thought to the issues and suspects at hand, I'm going to step back as well.
Unvote.
I have more to say, but RL concerns are calling me away. More soon.
this entire post seems like a "well since people are starting to take kmans side i'll just step off" move. atleast to me it does :-/. what do you guys think?
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In regards to Frenger, I'd say one more day. The game only really started yesterday.
I think a lot of these accusations so far are far from baseless. I encourage the re-read, they're refreshing.
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
The game has been going for less than 24 hours. At the very least, I will wait another day before even thinking about an unofficial prod.
Until I get home, Unvote, Vote Kman. Sorry, but as a rule, I'm going to vote for people who make very brief posts and get defensive about attacks on them. Give me a valid reason for why you've been acting the way you have been and I'll reconsider my vote. Saying that you're new or that you're a "thinker" isn't what I consider valid, by the way
By the way, I'm not totally sure that people should be FoSing Jqlgrl. When I started observing/playing Mafia, I didn't understand why people jumped on Nolynchers so quickly. It's not a very obvious concept. That said, FoS Jqlgrl, because I'm not totally sure if you are a new player, as sometimes people have played on other sites and I haven't read all of your other Mafia posts here.
and look around every once and a while you could miss it. - ferris bueller
Half way through my reread, and I wanna stop and answer some questions.
@JodoYodo: I haven't played in many games with MBP, so I can't tell if this is normal for him. That shouldn't detract from the scumminess of it all though.
In response to the quoted bit from MBP, I justified my EER analysis before. I said in the first post that I had played one other game with EER where he acted erratically and kinda RPed in the game. EER has the potential for mild RPing, and I knew this. Even if it was a joke, I knew it was still possible, and it was clearly scottish. It just stuck out like a sore thumb to me, and I thought I would mention it. I have justified my reasoning earlier.
Finishing my reread now.
the whole willy thng is completely wrong. i was spelling wrong as a joke.
i'll try to catch up as soon as the storm passes.
"Only dead fish go with the flow"
Unless EER is lying, of course.
I would also like MBP to answer the questions against him, since I don't think he has yet.
Oh, and his little "don't kill me!" post doesn't make sense. He has two people on him, and he has revealed that he is not the Cop or the Doc. In the last noob game, anyone who was not a cop or doc was vanilla.
So, what MBP is saying is that he is not the cop or doc, but is important to the town in some way. He did this all under very little vote pressure. This doesn't sit well with me.
Regardless, we still have a great amount of information from it, seeing as how it has sparked debate.
Record: 3-2
Simpsons Mafia (Newbie) - Vanilla Mafia - Win
The Fiasco Corporation - Town Reporter - Loss
Doomsday Mafia - Mafia Roleblocker - Win
Battle Royale Mafia - Serial Daykiller - Loss
Danger City Mafia - Vanilla Town - Win
I don't like this post. It seems like you're trying to throw suspicion away from yourself and on to EER.
{Magic: The RPG}
i was discussed in the last page. if you look at my posts any where on this website you'll see i don't post much. i think you're just playing the game in that "i'll vote for anyone thats not me" mood since you voted for mbp earlier just cause everyone else was.
and look around every once and a while you could miss it. - ferris bueller
and look around every once and a while you could miss it. - ferris bueller
and look around every once and a while you could miss it. - ferris bueller
Ok, now that that's out of the way, time to comment on what I've seen thus far in the game.
Man Bear Pig
Again makes a comment that it's weird for BigTime to be reading so much into a random post, despite saying earlier that there was something to BigTime's posts during the random phase. Eventually he backs off, since his weak case on BigTime is drawing far more pressure onto himself than BigTime. However, he still does not explain what the "scummy actions" are that BigTime made. The whole "Oh, and don't lynch me 'cuz I'm important" bit bothers me. It seems like an attempt to get out from under the microscope.
kman1474
I don't like the way he's been playing the "innocent noob" card. He continues to be very defensive whenever someone calls him on it. His posts are all very short and pointless, basically consisting of "I'm town because I say I am". Also makes a serious OMGUS post in #137. It's not even subtle either. It's straight up "You're voting me, so either you're crazy or you're mafia".
JqlGirl
At first I was just thinking that she was being genuinely noob-ish, but she's been actively playing the noob card a lot as well. Still, her posts strike me as a lot more genuinely noob than kman1474's.
I'm going to go ahead and vote Man Bear Pig. I still want to hear an explanation of what BigTime's "scummy actions" were.
Record: 3-2
Simpsons Mafia (Newbie) - Vanilla Mafia - Win
The Fiasco Corporation - Town Reporter - Loss
Doomsday Mafia - Mafia Roleblocker - Win
Battle Royale Mafia - Serial Daykiller - Loss
Danger City Mafia - Vanilla Town - Win
@MBP: hey man, i paid for this comp. idk what your financial state is, but i like to keep from unnecessary spend, m'kay?
[the whole willy accent just doesn't even like make sense. if'ns you were asking me, that sounds chinese, which gets away from the point of me poking fun at spelling.]
MBP's OMGUS vote on BT was very scummy. he accused BT of doing that, but there wasn't a hint of OMGUS in BT's vote/case thing. [hint for MBP: OMGUS implies that the OMGUS-er was voted by the other person first.] which brings us back full circle, you OMGUS voted for BT.
you also haven't answered any of teh questions directed towards you.
MBP is the obvious scum. Vote ManBearPig.
[oh, and me name isn't that hard to spell, specially when you just say EER. i see that someone even messed up with that. thnxz sneaky for your correct spelling.]
"Only dead fish go with the flow"
I certainly don't think that people accusing you are crazy, because you've been acting pretty scummy so far. Like I said, your posts are all very brief and dismissive, and are playing very reactively when, as a town, you should probably be pursuing leads and trying to find the scum.
I mean, maybe you're new to game, but I'm quite tired of hearing the "I'm an innocent noob" or "I don't post much because I'm a thinker" lines if you're accused of something or asked to more constructively participate. You seem to like to sit back, watch, and post only when you are attack, a significant scum tell.
This was in response to Caex Kothar's post, who agreed with Jodo's suspicion of BT when he said he thought he had a hunch about EER. At the time, BT's post was kind of suspicious, considering he claimed he had a hunch about a player, who up until that point, had barely even taken part in discussion. The point being, you quickly jumped of Caex Kothar with no legitamate reason to. This is pretty scummy, as well. I mean, you never even followed the possible lead. If you thought he was scummy, why did you just give up?
I guess it might be intimidating for a new player to be in the same game as an experienced one, but it isn't really reason for alarm. Being scared of everyone is a bit suspicious. You have nothing to hide, as you said before, so why are you so frightened?
Another one of these scared posts you seem to have tied yourself to at this point. Maybe this was just random or attempt at humor, but I believe (and someone stated before) that randomness is never random.
I'd like you to post a defense of yourself that's not something akin to the defenses you've already been using ("I'm an innocent noob", "You're crazy if you think I'm mafia", etc.). I myself am a thinker, but am able to apply my thoughts to posts. If you genuinely are town, I'd like you to give me a reason why I should believe that.
and look around every once and a while you could miss it. - ferris bueller
and look around every once and a while you could miss it. - ferris bueller
Actually, a few players have given reasons for us suspecting you are scum. Including your posts saying "You're crazy for voting for me unless you're scum!" and playing the "n00b" card too often.
It looks to me like you're just trying to throw attention away from yourself and on to those two. Which means you get a FoS: Kman1474
{Magic: The RPG}
UnFOS:Sneakyhomonculus
Man Bear Pig:
Currently I am still unconvinced of MBP's innocence. He explained his reasons for being suspicious of the Willy post, but still had not stated what other reasons he had for calling BT scummy. Additionally the whole don't lynch me because i'm important thing strikes me as off especially in a newb game not likely to have roles that are not cops or docs, which he claims not to be.
FOS Stands
Jqlgirl & Kman
Both seem to be using alot of OMGUS and kneejerk reactionary tactics,
of the two I am more inclined to suspect jql. Her willingness to change her vote or FOS in response to a single post without posting any reasoning beyond agreeing with what everyone else posts strikes me as scummy
Gaymers
This was in response to BT's supposed inside knowledge. Although at first BT's "hunch" seemed scummy (just a post saying "I think I know who EER is"), the reason he claimed for posting it cleared most things up IMO. I know this was just a FoS, but claiming that BT was "grasping at straws" seems like you were trying to portray BT in a very scummy light, when at the time, he didn't really deserve it. IMO, the Willy hunch was fairly clever, even though it wouldn't really have yielded any real information.
Further discussion on BT's hunch. I believe that BT not wanting to fully commit to a belief was necessarily scummy, but I can see where you're coming from here.
After saying a vote is very OMGUS-ish, you OMGUS vote right back at BT. This certainly seems scummy, and was the first time I really believe that you could be scum.
Even after hearing out BT's reasoning for why he character guessed EER, you still call it really weird. There wasn't anything inherently scummy in BT's hunch, and to call it your main point of voting BT as scum was weird, if not scummy in and of itself.
Wow, this last part was a stunner. I really have no clue as to why you would post that, considering, it's a giant bullseye for scum.
Although you did retract suspicion of BT, this last statement baffles me beyond belief. I thought cop and doc were the only roles in newb games, and maybe occasionally roleblocker, but I just can't imagine why you would let out information regarding a role that seems to be powerful (how could doc or cop be so significant after day 1?).
Kind of a bad move, if not just a scummy one, because if you do have a role that can be important for a town victory, why would you reveal anything about it, considering you'd already known you would draw suspicion?
Overall, I don't think your actions warrant a vote at this time, but for now I think a FoS ManBearPig will do.
@Kman: I gave my reasons for believing you to be scum. It's not just that you don't post much. Reread my post please, and defend yourself if able.
Also, I will FoS Jqlgirl. You have been agreeing with me, so you might be surprised by this, but your reasons for FoSing and Voting people seem to be because others are doing it. I can understand that other people have just already said what's needed to be said in your mind, but like Evil_Home said, you seem to be a bit prone to OMGUS and dismissive reactions. I was going to say you might want to stay away from the newb excuse, but you've already adressed that, decreasing your scumminess in my eyes.
Think about this a bit harder. There's an explanation if you think about MBP being crafty.
@kman1474: If there're any less or more than 3 mafia in this game I'll be surprised. General rule is 25%. Also, it was EER that we thought was Willy, not MBP.
Okay people, I think it's gotten to the point where I want MBP to claim.
I want to see how many others agree with this. And additionally, we shouldn't vote for him until he agrees/disagrees with a claim. We don't need to speedlynch at this point.
And kman1474 isn't doing so hot in my book. He's definitely now the #2 spot on my scumlist.
Also people, please stop using the noob card. If you're a noob, you've told us by now. If you want to ask questions about the game, go ahead, it's a learning process, but stop hiding behind the noob card. Anyone using it like a credit card is automatically scummy in my book.
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
Here it is:
I am Homer Simpson. I am really pissed off because my son is missing. I have a one-shot vig ability.
That was why I was saying "if you are going to lynch me, wait till day two". By doing that, I can get a kill off, or wait till ther are fewer people and thus have a greater chance of hitting scum.
That's more than good enough for me, unless someone counterclaims, which is ballsy since Homer is a big character.
For those of you who think that a 1-shot Vig is not in a newbie game, I'm going to state this right now: THIS IS NOT A REGULAR NEWBIE GAME. I'm not going to say much but I'm 100% sure of this. If you trust me, you can trust this statement. I believe MBP.
To everyone: MBP is a very likely NK target tonight, for two reasons:
1) He has a powerful ability in a mini
2) He's the only pseudo-confirmed town now
DO NOT call out targets for MBP to vig. Let MBP decide this on his own. If he's paying attention he will hit who the majority want us to hit anyways. By saying "Hey MBP hit ______" we're doing nothing except hinting to scum who MBP will hit. If that person is scum, they might roleblock him, and if that person is town, then they'll hit someone else, giving them a TWO KILL night. So DO NOT call out vig targets.
Thank you!
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
Man Bear Pig (4): BigTime, The Mad Tapper, Caex Kothar, ea er refta
kma1474 (2): krowzy, Jqlgirl
Not voting: Evil_Homestereo, sneakyhomunculus, Man Bear Pig, kman1474, JodoYodo, Frenger
I'll re-read, then post once I get back from a poker game.
{Magic: The RPG}
and look around every once and a while you could miss it. - ferris bueller
UnFOS Man Bear Pig
Jql and Kman have not cleared themselves in my mind yet. They continue to act in the same manner that made me suspicious in the first place.
Gaymers
Un-FoS MBP
Jodo, this is mainly directed at you since I think you have the most experience:
Should I wait to kill till a different night, or try to hit scum tonight. I don't want to hit a townie, and it seems like I would have a greater chance on say, night 2 or 3.
Other people can answer this as well.
can you promise that?
i really don't know how to make you guys trust me. i've told how i've felt about krowzy and jqlgirl and how i think they are both scum but of course i have no proof but neither do they for voting for me. this game is still at the point of just pointless blaming and i seem to be getting all of the blame now that mbp has said that he is homer. i will be happy to give everyone my word as a magic player that i am not scum.
and look around every once and a while you could miss it. - ferris bueller
"Only dead fish go with the flow"
Record: 3-2
Simpsons Mafia (Newbie) - Vanilla Mafia - Win
The Fiasco Corporation - Town Reporter - Loss
Doomsday Mafia - Mafia Roleblocker - Win
Battle Royale Mafia - Serial Daykiller - Loss
Danger City Mafia - Vanilla Town - Win
I'm not too sure on this. I don't have much (read: zero) experience with vigs. Unless cop claims, you're probably the doc target of the night, so I think it's safe for you for at least night 1. We don't want to waste your ability too hastily. I'd like the rest of the town to discuss this.
Despite kman's absence, I really think he's scum. We can discuss this on Wednesday, I guess... that's a long time =( Time to reread. I advise everyone do so as well and take physical notes.
@EER: You make a very good point regarding vigs.
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
you can discuss how im scum now if you want. i just won't be here to hear you guys call me scum sunday through wednesday.
and look around every once and a while you could miss it. - ferris bueller
I am bothered by a few things though.
1. Why would Homer be a vig?
2. Why did MBP NEVER get around to answering questions about him?
3. Why is there a vig in a Newb game?
I realize that JY has cleared up this issue, of Vig's being in noob games, but it still is kinda unbelievable.
Anyhoo, since I haven't seen a counterclaim yet, I can only assume that MBP is telling the truth. I guess we just have to move on...
Speaking of moving on, I am currently rereading the kman/jglgirl issues, and I have some major problems with those. Coming soon, to a thread near you!
Nonsensical. Votes for NL, but has suspicion on someone. If it's fake suspicion, it's a distraction and bad for the town. If it's real suspicion, it contradicts her FoS. Also, bad for the town.
Justifies NL vote. Explains FoS. Again, this contradicts. She says she realizes that other people suspicion MBP, and she is acknowledging that she agrees with the suspicion. But she still says she doesn't suspect anybody? Then plays the noob card for the first time.
Noob card #2. Explains how she never suspicioned MBP by telling him she only FoSed him? I can't see how this is good for the town. If you don't feel like someone is scum, don't vote or FoS them. It's that simple. She is following the crowd, but only nonchalently. Also, I see the last bit of this post as a distraction tactic from MBP, pointing fingers at easy targets: people who never show!
Claims to have no content due to lack of information. I can write this off as newb mistake. You are supposed to find content. Pokes Frengar (which I fully support! Where is he?), and decides to go hunting for clues.
Looks like she tried to find somebody. I must say though, this is a poor sample. Up to this point, I don't think kman was making a name for himself at all. He was neutral in my book. FoSing him for not posting longer is a very scummy reason to suspicion somebody. She says he isn't posting enough, but what he does post is scummy. Personally, I haven't been able to really truly read kman (but I will in a minute! ;)). Mutters something about capitalization.
This would be newb card #3. Decides Voting is a good idea, now that she has a buddy to back her up. That's not good justification for a vote. Scummy.
No, he's not up to five votes, but considering the case on him is built around weak and scummy arguments, I think your vote is unjustified and scummy. There is a good reason he has not been dicussed much, and that's because he hasen't posted much. By your reasoning, we should be voting Frengar, since he hasen't posted AT ALL. Low post counts are a poor reason to vote somebody this early in the game.
Again, clears that she did not vote for MBP. This still feels like she is shifting attention away from MBP.
Confirms vote, argues back and forth...
I'm gonna call this newb card 4. Even though she apoligizes, she should instead just stop mentioning it altogether. Suddenly decides that MBP is scum. This is a drastic change in attitude, seeing as how she was incredibly set that MBP was innocent. Suddenly EER pops up and MBP is scum? That's weird...
Says kman never argues the accusations against him. From this collection of posts, I can't see that JqlGirl ever accused him of anything other than posting very little. Says it's scummy that kman FoSes those attacking him, which may be, but considering the baselessness of this case, I think he is justified. Says she doesn't understand how she and her helper could be scum. Easy: your scumbuddies. You agree on lynching any town! But that's not my opinion, that's what I understood kman's argument as. Also says kman is only attacking his attackers. I'll get to that later.
Note that she finishes that last point by saying that none of this makes him scum, but he just looks kinda scummy. If none of it makes him scum WHY VOTE HIM?
All in all, I have not been impressed with the JglGirl situation. I have been caught up in the MBP case too much to really give this full thought, but here it is now.
A quick little exerpt from my thoughts on MBP: We keep saying that the mafia members may not be so obvious. So what means the townies WILL be obvious. I know that my role isn't very obvious, at least not to me. Maybe it's just me, but MBP's claim is very unsetteling.
On to kman's case, and while I'm at it, Krowzy.
Aww, that's ok. Think of me like the Dentist. If I check you out and you are clean, we don't have a problem. If there's a cavity, you should know that I don't use painkillers. Oh, and consider this newb card #1
Jumps to some quick silly conclusions. Doesn't go anywhere after that.
random cuteness...(I love the breadkitty!)
newb card #2...
Has an FoS here, but for some pretty solid reasons. This is not a JqlGirl move, FoSing because its the in thing to do.
newb card #3...
I think kman is confused at this point. He thinks that we are calling MBP Willy, but that was never the case all along. I see this as proof of his extreme newbieness.
Makes a fairly solid attack on JqlGirl, which I don't think I saw a response to. Also, justifies a lack of posting. I don't really see slow playstyle as good justification for a vote...
Weird statement. I don't know what to think of that. It's not the scummiest thing in the world, but it's not smart to say.
This strikes me as incredibly opposite JqlGirl. She throws her vote/suspicion around on anyone for any reason that looks good at the time. kman strictly says he won't vote/suspicion anyone unless they deserve it.
Well, in a twelve man game, you can bet 3-4 mafia members. More than likely 3. But I can kinda see where this is going: Formulating a scum team perhaps. I'll admit, it's a bit easier to do in a newb game, but Day One? Slow your roll buddy.
Justifies the scumteam thoughts, although provides sufficent reasoning to believe so. I need to read up on Krowzy, so I won't say much else, other than putting together scumteams this early can backfire. It's not exactly very scummy, but it can DEFINETLY backfire.
Out of town. Understood.
Scout's honor? No, but really, it takes seven (I think?) votes to get you killed. One or two votes here and there won't really hurt you. Besides, if someone did decide to kill you while you were away, they would become Scumlist#1. I don't think a ton of people really suspicion you, otherwise you would have more votes.
Discussion finished in my mind.
All in all, kman does a few scummy things, but certinely not enouogh to warrent a vote. Most of it is comprised of his newb cards, which he hands out like hotcakes. His votes and reasoning seem pretty solid to me, and after going over JqlGirl, the case on him seems incredibly baseless. Seems town to me.
Gets onto EER over the accent. Turns out it was nothing! Also notes kman's posts, saying they are noteworthy, but never explains why.
Votes kman, saying it's a "rule" to vote people who make short posts, and who defend themselves when attacked. Didn't see that one in the Mafia Handbook. Then says people shouldn't FoS JqlGirl, then within a single sentance, FoSes her himself. ???? WTF? Claims it's because he doesn't believe she hasen't played mafia before. WTF?! Scummy...
First, calls kman scummy for trying to defend himself instead of finding scum. You have to give the chance to defend himself! The second paragraph reminds me of Loran: "Planning on adding any content CC?". (Loran was scum there, FYI.) Tried to back kman in a corner by attacking him for calling someone scummy (see kman's post page 4 I believe). This post isn't kman's best, but I think asserting that he backed down from an attack is the wrong approach to take. He then takes MBP's random point and puts it to poor use, assuming that that kman's newb posts are still random humor. Never assume kiddos. Never assume. The last paragraph comes off as a bit of WIFOM to me. Not impressed by this post at all.
Displays a fairly good understanding of the MBP case and has some solid points on it. Still gets onto kman for not defending himself well enough. Then, and this is interesting, he targets JqlGirl. He attacks her for what seem like the right reasons, but then he TOO contradicts himself. He FoSes, but at the end of the post says her scumminess has decreased in his eyes. That's incredibly backwards.
Takes MBP at full value, never looks back.
I want the town to realize here that just because MBP's claim has been solid so far doesn't mean he isn't scum. It's highly unlikely that he is, but realize that it isn't 100%. Frengar hasen't even showed yet, and he could be Homer.
MBP's actions are still scummy, the only thing that has changed is his claim. Since that is solid to this point, I see no reason to risk lynching a town member. Don't let that detract from MBP's earlier scumtells.
Ok, so after my marathon Quad-postage there, I feel comfortable with a Vote JqlGirl, Mild FoS Krowzy.
It's now 3:30 in the morn. I'm tired. I did this because it's all been spinning in my head the whole day, and I never had access to a computer. Sorry town, for making you read so much, but I hope there is helpful information in there.
Your read on JqlGirl vs. your read on kman1474 is interesting. My initial read on JqlGirl was that she was noob-ish and trying too hard to participate (and poorly at that). But I have to admit I find your case compelling. In particular, something that has caught my interest was her comment about kman only attacking people who are looking closely at him. Both myself and JodoYodo have commented on kman's play thus far, and neither of us have been attacked by him. kman has only attacked those who were aggressively pursuing him with little to go on, particularly considering how much more scummy Man Bear Pig had been playing. Also, the bit about EER's post convincing her to warm up to the Man Bear Pig wagon is very odd, since all EER did was reiterate points that were already made.
Work is catching up to me again, so I'm gonna have to cut this short. I'll try to finish up reading the krowzy stuff and post again after I get off work in a couple of hours.
Record: 3-2
Simpsons Mafia (Newbie) - Vanilla Mafia - Win
The Fiasco Corporation - Town Reporter - Loss
Doomsday Mafia - Mafia Roleblocker - Win
Battle Royale Mafia - Serial Daykiller - Loss
Danger City Mafia - Vanilla Town - Win
kman1474
The thing that bugged me most about his posts was that his noob cards were being played preemptively. By BigTime's counting, he'd already played three of them before he got a single FoS (I believe the first was from sneakyhomunculus). He just seemed to be going out of his way to convince people he was an "innocent noob" before he even got any real pressure on him. I suppose this could be a play style thing, but if it is it's not a good one. In anything besides a noob mafia game I doubt it would get him very far.
JqlGirl
I really would like to think Jql was just trying too hard and getting scrutinized over it. But it's getting harder to think that. While BigTime was incorrect that Jql was set on MBP being innocent (as Jql pointed out in her last post), what she was set on was that she had no suspicion of MBP. The point, however, is still valid: she changed from "no suspicion" to "FoS" based on a post by EER that added no new insight to the case. She's also really quick to resort to an appeal to sympathy when hit with a play-by-play analysis, rather than try to defend herself.
krowzy
Not sure about krowzy. Jql has been getting more push back from kman than krowzy, so there's more reactions to judge from with her. The second and third posts do look fairly bad, but the fourth one looks better, as BigTime pointed out. As far as BigTime's analysis of the fourth post goes, I don't think it's so much the logic that's backwards as the sentence order. I read that paragraph to mean that he thought Jql's backing off of the noob card was good, but not enough to remove all doubt. The last post is pretty naive, I agree. MBP may escape the lynch today, but he's not entirely cleared.
Man Bear Pig
No counter-claim lends credibility at least to his identity. Whether or not he's been truthful about the role remains to be seen. ea er refta's assessment on potential outcomes of that is pretty good. I still, however, am suspicious of his play up to this point, particularly since he seems dead set on keeping quiet about the rest of his earlier accusations toward BigTime.
For now, unvote Man Bear Pig and downgrade it to a FoS Man Bear Pig. Would like to hear more from JqlGirl and krowzy.
Getting too tired to mess with this anymore. Will check back in tonight. ZZzzz...
Record: 3-2
Simpsons Mafia (Newbie) - Vanilla Mafia - Win
The Fiasco Corporation - Town Reporter - Loss
Doomsday Mafia - Mafia Roleblocker - Win
Battle Royale Mafia - Serial Daykiller - Loss
Danger City Mafia - Vanilla Town - Win
"Only dead fish go with the flow"
Dude, I am SOOOO sorry for the hellish reread your gonna have ta do.
I would like to ask for some things:
1. We do not lynch anyone until Frenger has given us his opinions
2. We do not lynch anyone until kman and EER return
3. Stop using the 'I swear it on my _________' excuse, that's a low blow defence and can garner you a bad reputation here if you're lying
Sigh. I don't like waiting for 4 days until we do stuff, but not having voting information on someone who I think is scummy (kman) is pretty critical. We can slow down our post rate and chillax and re-read to compensate. Do my requests sound reasonable? I definitely need a re-read of the last few pages, and I won't be able to do it properly until Monday.
I WANT YOUR DEATH BARONS! Message me if you want to get rid of them!
this entire post seems like a "well since people are starting to take kmans side i'll just step off" move. atleast to me it does :-/. what do you guys think?
and look around every once and a while you could miss it. - ferris bueller