I strongly suspect that he is misinterpreting his own role, especially since he included the part about 'Loran can't kill anyone(paraphrase)'. But if this is the case, I guess we'll find out later.
bat, I have to complain about your timing. Scummy people should be forced to claim, just on principle. Killing a bandwagon doesn't serve any purpose at all without definite, concrete information, and even then, it generally isn't a good idea.
The town isn't so stupid as to actually lynch loran 5 days into the game without something seriously more substantial than what we have, or can even likely expect from his claim, but it's worth a shot. And now you've claimed role based information that will make you a target for no good reason at all.
Hey, I have an idea. Why doesn't everyone claim to know a key piece of information or imply a power role? That way, at least the mafia are reduced to guesses again. The town being at a complete loss for who to lynch is a small price to pay, IMHO.
The first was wierd becuase if CP has a voting restriction, he probably would have mentioned it. That's his style, put info in front of the town quickly. The only reason he wouldn't would be he has a reason for not discussing it (like threat of modkill or loss of an ability, as SB pointed out.)
Umm, where do you get that from? I object to the implication here. I do no such thing.
The only information it's consistently good to get in the early game is 1) behavioral tells, and 2) claim information from scummy players on wagons. Other information might be necessary to get out, like PRs, standards of behavior (such as my refusal to vote), miller claims, and such, but those aren't pieces of information to trust. They're non-tells, if not actively misleading, and should never be relied on.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Scummy people should be forced to claim, just on principle.
Vote: carrion pigeons
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<Limited Clan>
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
No, it's me pointing out that your desire to see claim information from a player who has no business giving it out is bad for the town. Where role information can remain hidden it should. The only reason anyone should be claiming is if we would otherwise lynch them and their claim of some kind of power role changes the risk/reward balance in such a way that we choose to back off.
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@Arimnaes: I don't see any particular benefit to further commenting there.
I think that CP's response to Bateleur's statement is really just a masked fishing expidition.(As opposed to Billum, who's attempt at fishing was much more obvious) Not to mention, it's absurd. If you concretely know someone to be town, preventing them from claiming is fine. Bat didn't derail the wagon at a point that he would deny the town of helpful information. He denied the wagon at a point where more action could possibly be harmful to the town. Pretty hard to find fault in that, I'd say.
Wonderful. May I be so bold as to ask your opinions on loran and on Charm Master?
Charm Master allus reads as scum t'me, whether he's acshully scum o' town, as enny fool kin plainly see. Eff'n ah voted fo' him ev'ry time he did sumpin scummah, then mah vote'd nevah leave him, dawgone it. As fo' lo'an, he's playin' th' way ah's used t'seein' him play, an' I've been in mo'e games wif him whar he was town than scum, dawgone it. Eff'n th' behavio' corntinues, then yessuh, ah will become mighty suspicious, but until he retches thet threshold, ah's mo'e ok wif him than ah's wif Billy Joeium Tate an' Charm Master.
Th' reason ah voted fo' Billy Joeium Tate is on account o' ah reckon he's huntin' a diffrunt group than ah's.
~hablomos englaiz? Billium stares at the odd man. Wished he was silent. Seriously man, this isn't backwaters kentucky remarks Billium.~
If there's nothing forcing you to post like that, and I suspect that there isn't, please never post like that again. It's hard to understand, far worse than 1337 5|>34|< (which I can't do well).
Your explanation is just "I think he isn't of my alignment", no? That's not much of an explanation. And what is that an attempt at? An Irish accent or a backwater south one, it's hard to tell over the internets.:(
And if CM always acts like scum, and you actively don't vote him for it, isn't his play just a good scum gambit then? Like if Faeren was ever mafia, nobody'd know, cuz he'd lurk and be scummy like he's so far acted in his games. This is like when you mysteriously ignored AK in MK mafia. It's disrupting the game, and doesn't serve a real purpose.
That's great. I'm going to love reading SP's post from here on out.
Does anyone other than me think it's odd for Tregit to post his reasons for finding CM scummy 2 pages after he voted for CM?
@Billium: It's not that hard to read. Would you like me to translate it for you? Also, be careful about talking about ongoing games. Tis a no-no and you'll upset the monkeys by doing so.
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I understand it, but it's a **** of a nuisance to have to work at understanding it. I don't think that he has to post like that, and it's an obstacle to understanding his posts, so I don't think he should post like that.
Stop voting for loran16 please. He is not Mafia and he has no capacity to kill.
If you ask me how I know this I will not respond.
Bate, you've been insinuating since your convo with DYH that i was neutral earlier on. So if it's this belief/info that has led you to make this post, im quite certain that you must have misinterpreted this info. I'm not neutral. ( i don't have the ability to kill, but i'm protown, not neutral)
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But it's interesting to me that you think there is some connection between that earlier exchange and my opposition to the wagon on you.
There's something I should probably check, actually. I assume you're not Estella, right? Because it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that she's actually a player.
I was half wondering if you were going to turn up and claim anyway, even though the town's no longer forcing you to do so. Glad you chose not to, but if you don't start being more careful with your questions things may end up even worse.
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<Limited Clan>
I'm sorry, but this is conversation is flying right over my head.
So AFAIK, Loran's really scummy. Town votes Loran. Bat shows up, says don't vote him, he's not mafia and can't kill-but don't ask me how I know this. Loran says he's not neutral, but pro-town. I find it interesting that loran uses pro-town instead of town. To this Bate responds that he a)never said loran was neutral, and b) has to check something about Estella, and loran not being estella. Bat's happy that loran hasn't claimed, and warns against loran asking more questions.
Who or what is Estella, and what's this thing about her maybe being a player?
I'm still happy to be voting loran, especially with his pro-town comment.
If you don't know anything about it I suggest you wait patiently.
and what's this thing about her maybe being a player?
I meant it as a shorthand for "a role in the game given to a player". As distinct from, for example, Mr Palanick. (Was that really not obvious?!)
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<Limited Clan>
But it's interesting to me that you think there is some connection between that earlier exchange and my opposition to the wagon on you.
There's something I should probably check, actually. I assume you're not Estella, right? Because it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that she's actually a player.
I was half wondering if you were going to turn up and claim anyway, even though the town's no longer forcing you to do so. Glad you chose not to, but if you don't start being more careful with your questions things may end up even worse.
K, no idea what you're talking about.
ANYHOW, i gotta study for this test. Back later.
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By not putting the tenth vote on Loran, and using the "I'll go back and check run his play" cop-out, he avoided quite a giant spotlight for himself. He already had several players who have been in games with loran multiple times explaining that his play here has coincided with his scum play. Seems excessively cautious.
I don't imagine a townie is overly concerned with bringing loran to claim range there, but a scum certainly might be - especially if bateleur is right.
Michael clears his throat, silencing the hullabaloo for a moment. "I've seen a message to our quiet friends. AlphaInsidious has been prodded, and will have until 1 November to post or be replaced. Nom_Anor, because he hasn't said anything, has been given a stricter deadline: if he hasn't posted by the end of today, he's out."
The "Don't Make Me a Target" Vote Count
(12 to lynch)
Running scared - 1 (Niv)
Kraj - 1 (AlphaInsidious)
loran16 - 5 (Wrath of DoG, Sutherlands, Billium Tate, HAWKEYE7, Kraj)
Charm_Master3125 - 6 (StormBlind, Treigit, Vampyr, Silent Prophet, Rafaelk, Disrupt Your Hymn)
carrion pigeons - 1 (bateleur)
By not putting the tenth vote on Loran, and using the "I'll go back and check run his play" cop-out, he avoided quite a giant spotlight for himself. He already had several players who have been in games with loran multiple times explaining that his play here has coincided with his scum play. Seems excessively cautious.
I don't imagine a townie is overly concerned with bringing loran to claim range there, but a scum certainly might be - especially if bateleur is right.
huh?
Everyone's saying "ZOMG Loran's scummz!!", but it looks more like opportunistic votes. I was just going to confirm from my own experiences, but before I had reached anything conclusive, Bat comes in and saves him.
FTR, his play here does resemble his play in matrix more than it does in CG. But again, Bat has bailed him out, so everyone's back to me.
Why would a scum be concerned about not leting Loran get into claim range?
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First of all, Unvote: Loran16 I don't know what to make of all this yet, but I have a hard time believing bateleur's play could possibly be a scum ploy. Who knows what's really going on, but we've got plenty of time to find out.
No, it's me pointing out that your desire to see claim information from a player who has no business giving it out is bad for the town. Where role information can remain hidden it should. The only reason anyone should be claiming is if we would otherwise lynch them and their claim of some kind of power role changes the risk/reward balance in such a way that we choose to back off.
I heartily agree. I'm tempted to put my vote back on CP, but I'd be equally happy returning my vote to CM, and BT keeps looking worse. My vote will follow a reread.
I understand it, but it's a **** of a nuisance to have to work at understanding it. I don't think that he has to post like that, and it's an obstacle to understanding his posts, so I don't think he should post like that.
Actually, I'd say it's pretty clear SP has a posting restriction and I retract my earlier FOS over it.
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I'm confused and intrigued by this whole bat thing, but I have nothing to say on it. Against my better judgement Unvote loran16. I'm still not convinced on CM.
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Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
Sorry about my lack of posts, but I happen to have a posting restriction.
I get ten posts per day. No more posts after that, or I'm modkilled. Because of this, I'm trying to save my posts; if I use them all early in the day, I'm rather stuck. Needless to say, I won't be posting particularly often, maybe once or twice a realtime week.
I really don't see Charm Master to be all that scummy. Then again, because of Bateleur's comments, and that Loran tends to play like this, I don't see Loran as likely scum either. Wasn't Charm's biggest suspicion his defense of Loran? Assuming Loran to be town, if Charm is defending him, it doesn't seem to say charm is scum to me so much as he simply found Loran not scummy, or he had some kind of information on him, like Bateleur claims to.
At this time, I find Carrion Pigeons most suspicious, because of his idiotic/fishing comment:
[/quote=carrion Pigeons]bat, I have to complain about your timing. Scummy people should be forced to claim, just on principle. Killing a bandwagon doesn't serve any purpose at all without definite, concrete information, and even then, it generally isn't a good idea.
The town isn't so stupid as to actually lynch loran 5 days into the game without something seriously more substantial than what we have, or can even likely expect from his claim, but it's worth a shot. And now you've claimed role based information that will make you a target for no good reason at all.[/quote]
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
well, now it gets interesting. I find it odd that multiple people are "claiming" restrictions, but one can speak about it without a mod-kill, and the other can't. (this is assuming CP can't vote and can't talk about it.) It seems...off.
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I've seen the "lurker" role once before, WOLG was Shredder, mafia lurker in Sin city mafia.
Its a terrible role. If xyre put that into the game.....ugh.
Vote Nom Anor
BTW, im now going to take a 24 hour nap.
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Xyre: I REALLY hope he's lying. I REALLY hope you wouldn't put in an account that HAS to lurk. Vote Nom Anor
WoLG in Sin City (a specialty, and thus likely to have longer days than this game) was limited to only 7 posts per day. There's nothing so unbelievable about what Nom Anor has claimed that makes him voteworthy, IMO.
Actually, I'd say it's pretty clear SP has a posting restriction and I retract my earlier FOS over it.
2/3s of his posts do not exhibit this restriction, which is why I said "I don't think he has to post like this". As I understand posting restrictions, they affect every post. Not just the ones where you want to cover up your lack of evidence as to why somebody's scum.
And I'm inclined to believe nom anor's claim because there have been similar roles before, sin city and elsewhere, with this restriction.
Where role information can remain hidden it should.
I guess that depends on your definition of the word "can." Clearly, all role information can remain hidden, but that would be a retarded game to play.
Just as clearly, you don't have information which directly clears loran, and even if you did, you should have realized that the claim of someone who has garnered no suspicion (such as yourself) should be more closely guarded than that of someone who has garnered quite a bit. Giving away role information to save someone you can't clear is chancy strategy at best.
well, now it gets interesting. I find it odd that multiple people are "claiming" restrictions, but one can speak about it without a mod-kill, and the other can't. (this is assuming CP can't vote and can't talk about it.) It seems...off.
Allow me to reiterate: I will not be voting. I haven't said anything else on the subject, nor will I.
Now, if someone can do me a favor, could they point out to me how my complaints about people revealing unnecessary info about their roles amounts to fishing?
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
WoLG in Sin City (a specialty, and thus likely to have longer days than this game) was limited to only 7 posts per day. There's nothing so unbelievable about what Nom Anor has claimed that makes him voteworthy, IMO.
I was pretty sure it was sin city, but I got his and Fayul's restrictions messed up (She was limited to 10 posts and no vote on days after a night that she didn't vig someone). I agree that it's nothing to get all frantic about.
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Good to see Nom showed up. Does or doesn't he have a restriction? I believe it's legit. Nom's been sketchy with participation in previous games, but to go this long without posting? It comes across as a person with their first PR.
@arimnaes: I can see a way to read loran's post to make his vote make more sense. I'll wait till he answers before saying more about it. What I find really odd is that you bypass the post two posts above when calling out someone for voting NA for stupid reasons. That is unless you have a reason to bypass and ignore Suth's scummy as hell post just above loran's in an attempt to draw more attention to loran.
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@arimnaes: I can see a way to read loran's post to make his vote make more sense. I'll wait till he answers before saying more about it. What I find really odd is that you bypass the post two posts above when calling out someone for voting NA for stupid reasons. That is unless you have a reason to bypass and ignore Suth's scummy as hell post just above loran's in an attempt to draw more attention to loran.
The way I read their posts, it appears that Sutherlands is voted Nom Anor because he didn't believe his restriction, which I simply find ill-informed. It appears that loran is voting for him because he thinks such a restriction automatically makes him scum, which I find utterly preposterous.
@Vampyr: Arimnaes hardly bypassed Sutherlands' post, he responded to it with a comment about a role that had such a restriction before. Sutherlands shows no knowledge of ever having seen such a role before (he did not play in Sin City). Sutherlands is expressing angst at the mod if he did create such a role (in fact says "account", not role, has he never played with Nom, either? PPE: Scratch that, they were both in Court Mafia) and appears to be voting Nom Amor solely on the premise he believes he's lying.
Loran, on the other hand, was aware such a role has existed here, and appears to be using that link to implicate Nom Amor, along with suggesting he might be lying (the 'if Xyre put that role into this game...ugh' bit). There is a difference between the two posts that merits different responses.
As for your post, you seem to be calling out both arimnaes and sutherlands without making a vote - which I realize is on CM, but not even a FoS. Strange. FoS: Vampyr
Here are two important questions based on your post:
* What do you think arimnaes has to gain by trying to draw more attention to loran?
* Do you think it's remotely possible he (loran) gets lynched today?
PPE: I see WoD is making his usual garbage wagon vote. Unfortunately, this is a complete non-tell as he does it all the time.
EBWODP: I don't think arimnaes is giving loran enough credit for the second line in his prior statement - there appears to be some disbelief there that Xyre would put the role into the game. I don't think the whole weight of his vote is based on the WoLG Sin City connection.
Frankly though, having been stuck with the most painful role I've ever been given in a game - by Xyre - (you might remember me having to post through the mod- fantastically cool idea, absolutely wrong person to give it to) I don't think there's much merit to doubt it's a possible role, especially on one post. Keep in mind, if he posts ten times and day drags on five or six real-life days beyond that and we ask for a prod - it's like RafK's claim from HS Mafia; he's going to get caught.
As it stands, they're all poor votes on Nom Amor, really, and the scenario is a bit suspect considering there's a sizable wagon rolling at the moment. Gut reaction? They feel like cop-out votes to me to avoid taking a stance on Charm Master. However, before I substantiate that, I need to go back and see what each one has said regarding him.
Its a terrible role. If xyre put that into the game.....ugh.
I agree, but that's one of the dumbest reasons I've ever heard to vote someone. So he's basically claiming an excuse to lurk the rest of the game. If the town honestly has no better target to pressure then I'm all for voting lurkers and calling his bluff. But with plenty of options worth exploring, and absolutely no other reason to be suspicious of Nom, these two votes are ridiculous.
I have some thoughts on a couple players.
Charm Master: I agree with Silent Prophet that CM always reads scummy (in my experience) so going solely on behavioral tells isn't the best strategy with him. However, he's done some other suspicious things beyond general scumminess. He started that weird "I'm a bigger newbie" argument with Niv; it's suspicious on its own, but doubly so when in post 164 he appears to have insight into CP's play style, which would indicate experience. He wants to play the newbie card and argue based on his experience at the same time.
Additionally, he has fished for role information on several occasions (post 125 and 155 stand out) and has done so much more subtely and suspiciously than Niv's infamous post. Finally, in post 164 he finishes with an incredibly stupid comment: "Don't lynch me before I get back." As if the town is going to lynch someone before they even claim. It's almost as if he's trying to ensure he can stall for as long as possible (cuz reading other games is a great reason for being silent in another ).
I will once again support CM's wagon. Vote: Charm Master
Cyan: I'm finding Cyan rather scummy, but on the other hand I always do. He seems suspiciously overconfident and hyper-focused on Loran's wagon. He doesn't even seem to be attempting to see any other possibility except Loran is scum. He also uses repetition instead of actually responding to Loran's defense. A simplified version of their discourse:
Cyan: Loran is jumpy, which is a scum tell.
Loran: I'm always jumpy.
Cyan: You're always scum.
Loran: If you look in older games where I'm town, you'll see the same jumpiness.
Cyan: Loran is jumpy, which is how Loran acts as scum.
I've yet to hear anyone who has played with Loran as town actually say, "No, you are not jumpy as town." Cyan also is dismissive of CM's bandwagon and describes it in ways that, in my opinion, could easily fit Loran's wagon as well. (Post 177)
Carrion Pigeons: I've pretty much agreed with everything that someone else has said regarding CP's suspicious behavior so I won't reiterate. While there are reasonable explanations, CP's posts have struck me as not being as well-thought-out as I'd expect from an experienced player.
As it stands, they're all poor votes on Nom Amor, really, and the scenario is a bit suspect considering there's a sizable wagon rolling at the moment. Gut reaction? They feel like cop-out votes to me to avoid taking a stance on Charm Master.
Seconded.
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Well, to save you time, I've already said that I'm unconvinced by the points against CM. As for the NA thing, I agree that I sizeable wagon is around... part of me wants it to continue, just to get rid of a lurker role, but for now Unvote. I think that role (should have said role earlier, not account), if he's telling the truth, is likely to be scum.
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Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
I'm finding Cyan rather scummy, but on the other hand I always do.
I think this would be a good time to make an exception, don't you?
FoS: Kraj
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I only threw that out becuase I thought he said it in Matrix. still havent found the quote, and now I'm thinking he wasn't the one who said it...which makes me even more confused and such.
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Keep in mind, if he posts ten times and day drags on five or six real-life days beyond that and we ask for a prod - it's like RafK's claim from HS Mafia; he's going to get caught.
Maybe. I should remind you that technically, I wasn't caught. I was counterclaimed. I might have got away with it otherwise
As it stands, they're all poor votes on Nom Amor, really, and the scenario is a bit suspect considering there's a sizable wagon rolling at the moment. Gut reaction? They feel like cop-out votes to me to avoid taking a stance on Charm Master. However, before I substantiate that, I need to go back and see what each one has said regarding him.
I agree with this part more or less completely, though.
The way I read their posts, it appears that Sutherlands is voted Nom Anor because he didn't believe his restriction, which I simply find ill-informed. It appears that loran is voting for him because he thinks such a restriction automatically makes him scum, which I find utterly preposterous.
Ok, I better understand what you were thinking in doing what you did.
As for your post, you seem to be calling out both arimnaes and sutherlands without making a vote - which I realize is on CM, but not even a FoS. Strange. FoS: Vampyr
I've already addressed this in another game. Apparently I need to make a sign and stick it to my forehead....there...under my name.
I don't use FoS's. I see no point to them. My vote is on the person I find the scummiest. Once it's been determined that he, or anyone with my vote, isn't the play for today, then I'll move my vote.
Besides, I didn't realize asking questions was a bad thing. Which is what I was doing with arim. I wasn't calling him out. If you want to call my insinuation "calling him out" fine, but that sort of thing seems to happen often enough around here. Now, with Suth, yes, I was very much calling him out. I won't deny that one.
Here are two important questions based on your post:
* What do you think arimnaes has to gain by trying to draw more attention to loran?
First off, let's make something clear. I have no idea what arimnaes has to gain by drawing more attention to loran. Which is why I asked. The reason behind the question is because I could see a scum continuing to make loran look bad, as if loran needs the help :D, in hopes to make a case on him down the line.
* Do you think it's remotely possible he (loran) gets lynched today?
I do not believe that loran will be lynched today. Bat's coming out and speaking for loran seems to have warded people away from loran. Who knows if that will continue to be the case. If bat somehow turns up scum, I believe that the first person to be looked at, if he's still alive is loran.
@Vampyr: Arimnaes hardly bypassed Sutherlands' post, he responded to it with a comment about a role that had such a restriction before. Sutherlands shows no knowledge of ever having seen such a role before (he did not play in Sin City). Sutherlands is expressing angst at the mod if he did create such a role (in fact says "account", not role, has he never played with Nom, either? PPE: Scratch that, they were both in Court Mafia) and appears to be voting Nom Amor solely on the premise he believes he's lying.
Loran, on the other hand, was aware such a role has existed here, and appears to be using that link to implicate Nom Amor, along with suggesting he might be lying (the 'if Xyre put that role into this game...ugh' bit). There is a difference between the two posts that merits different responses.
As for the rest of your post. I wasn't concerned about who's seen what. I wasn't in Sin City, but I still read the game and recognized the similiar roles. Suth's comment comes across as scummy to me because he's gaming the mod and as a result of gaming the mod he votes for NA. To me that's the definiation of hella scummy. And after there have been multiple people claiming or exhibiting what appear to be posting restrictions.
As for loran's comment, like I said, I believe I see a way of reading his post with a vote so that it's not all that scummy. I guess because I can see that interpretation that I had a hard time seeing why arimnaes passes up Suth's horrible vote for one that doesn't seem as bad to me. Hence, my question to arim.
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Okay, so i haven't gone to sleep yet. How irritating.
As for my vote, Im voting nom anor because i dont believe xyre would put such a role in the game. Like REALLY REALLY dont believe. I don't believe the restriction makes him scum. I don't believe he has the restriction. After lurking problems in Xyre's last game, i cannot possibly conceive of Xyre putting in a role into this game that actually HAS to lurk. It's terrible modding, and i don't think xyre would do it.
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"Its matter was not new to me, but was presented in a new aspect. It shook me in my habit - the habit of nine-tenths of the world - of believing that all was right about me, because I was used to it . . . "
What is this Loran, a scummy post marathon? Every post you make is scummy, typically more scummy than the last. In this latest bit, not only are you *completely and utterly* gaming the Mod, but you're wanting us to lynch someone over it? The action you are attesting to him doesn't even make sense. So what, in order to cover for the fact that he was lurking(which he would have known he was doing), NA lied and made up a posting restricition that is easily proven/disproven? Why would he feel the need to do so in the first place? You are being ridiculous. You're acting exactly like you did towards Atlseal after he outed Kraj in Matrix Mafia, just in a different context. And we all know what your affiliation was there.
I understand what Bat said, but, I just can't sit by and let Loran slide. He has got to be scum. Seriously. Vote Loran
@Kraj: The case on Loran could not be any different than the 'case' on Charm. The only 'tells' Charm has given off can all be attributed to him being new. Loran has repeatedly acted in a fashion that *exactly* matches his previous actions as scum.
"Its matter was not new to me, but was presented in a new aspect. It shook me in my habit - the habit of nine-tenths of the world - of believing that all was right about me, because I was used to it . . . "
What is this Loran, a scummy post marathon? Every post you make is scummy, typically more scummy than the last. In this latest bit, not only are you *completely and utterly* gaming the Mod, but you're wanting us to lynch someone over it? The action you are attesting to him doesn't even make sense. So what, in order to cover for the fact that he was lurking(which he would have known he was doing), NA lied and made up a posting restricition that is easily proven/disproven? Why would he feel the need to do so in the first place? You are being ridiculous. You're acting exactly like you did towards Atlseal after he outed Kraj in Matrix Mafia, just in a different context. And we all know what your affiliation was there.
I understand what Bat said, but, I just can't sit by and let Loran slide. He has got to be scum. Seriously. Vote Loran
@Kraj: The case on Loran could not be any different than the 'case' on Charm. The only 'tells' Charm has given off can all be attributed to him being new. Loran has repeatedly acted in a fashion that *exactly* matches his previous actions as scum.
Easily proven/disproven if a day takes over a month. I think the odds of that happening are not so good. Unlike Rafk's role from HS, the town cant easily spam to the point where he'll have to make post 11, and as such cant really call him on it.
As for WHY NA would risk this? I can't tell you. But NA's role is preposterous. This is beyond gaming the mod.
Also, i cant talk about matrix mafia. you shouldnt talk about it. Seriously, ACTIVE GAME.
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Sure, you can talk about past actions and known events. We just can't talk about the live players alignments.
I don't know how certain bat was, or what he knows, but what I do know is that loran is very scummy, and I'd like him to at least claim his rolename. If not for his sake, than for mine.
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Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
Sure, you can talk about past actions and known events. We just can't talk about the live players alignments.
I don't know how certain bat was, or what he knows, but what I do know is that loran is very scummy, and I'd like him to at least claim his rolename. If not for his sake, than for mine.
Considering its a specialty game and an Az game, no i will not talk about it, and no NOBODY SHOULD.
And, no? i claim at -2. I don't give free info for curiosity.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
The town isn't so stupid as to actually lynch loran 5 days into the game without something seriously more substantial than what we have, or can even likely expect from his claim, but it's worth a shot. And now you've claimed role based information that will make you a target for no good reason at all.
Hey, I have an idea. Why doesn't everyone claim to know a key piece of information or imply a power role? That way, at least the mafia are reduced to guesses again. The town being at a complete loss for who to lynch is a small price to pay, IMHO.
Umm, where do you get that from? I object to the implication here. I do no such thing.
The only information it's consistently good to get in the early game is 1) behavioral tells, and 2) claim information from scummy players on wagons. Other information might be necessary to get out, like PRs, standards of behavior (such as my refusal to vote), miller claims, and such, but those aren't pieces of information to trust. They're non-tells, if not actively misleading, and should never be relied on.
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Oh, and bat won't explain how he know this. All the merrier.
votee stands
Vote: carrion pigeons
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@Arimnaes: I don't see any particular benefit to further commenting there.
I think that CP's response to Bateleur's statement is really just a masked fishing expidition.(As opposed to Billum, who's attempt at fishing was much more obvious) Not to mention, it's absurd. If you concretely know someone to be town, preventing them from claiming is fine. Bat didn't derail the wagon at a point that he would deny the town of helpful information. He denied the wagon at a point where more action could possibly be harmful to the town. Pretty hard to find fault in that, I'd say.
Charm Master allus reads as scum t'me, whether he's acshully scum o' town, as enny fool kin plainly see. Eff'n ah voted fo' him ev'ry time he did sumpin scummah, then mah vote'd nevah leave him, dawgone it. As fo' lo'an, he's playin' th' way ah's used t'seein' him play, an' I've been in mo'e games wif him whar he was town than scum, dawgone it. Eff'n th' behavio' corntinues, then yessuh, ah will become mighty suspicious, but until he retches thet threshold, ah's mo'e ok wif him than ah's wif Billy Joeium Tate an' Charm Master.
Th' reason ah voted fo' Billy Joeium Tate is on account o' ah reckon he's huntin' a diffrunt group than ah's.
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If there's nothing forcing you to post like that, and I suspect that there isn't, please never post like that again. It's hard to understand, far worse than 1337 5|>34|< (which I can't do well).
Your explanation is just "I think he isn't of my alignment", no? That's not much of an explanation. And what is that an attempt at? An Irish accent or a backwater south one, it's hard to tell over the internets.:(
And if CM always acts like scum, and you actively don't vote him for it, isn't his play just a good scum gambit then? Like if Faeren was ever mafia, nobody'd know, cuz he'd lurk and be scummy like he's so far acted in his games. This is like when you mysteriously ignored AK in MK mafia. It's disrupting the game, and doesn't serve a real purpose.
That's great. I'm going to love reading SP's post from here on out.
Does anyone other than me think it's odd for Tregit to post his reasons for finding CM scummy 2 pages after he voted for CM?
@Billium: It's not that hard to read. Would you like me to translate it for you? Also, be careful about talking about ongoing games. Tis a no-no and you'll upset the monkeys by doing so.
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Bate, you've been insinuating since your convo with DYH that i was neutral earlier on. So if it's this belief/info that has led you to make this post, im quite certain that you must have misinterpreted this info. I'm not neutral. ( i don't have the ability to kill, but i'm protown, not neutral)
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I never said you were.
But it's interesting to me that you think there is some connection between that earlier exchange and my opposition to the wagon on you.
There's something I should probably check, actually. I assume you're not Estella, right? Because it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that she's actually a player.
I was half wondering if you were going to turn up and claim anyway, even though the town's no longer forcing you to do so. Glad you chose not to, but if you don't start being more careful with your questions things may end up even worse.
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So AFAIK, Loran's really scummy. Town votes Loran. Bat shows up, says don't vote him, he's not mafia and can't kill-but don't ask me how I know this. Loran says he's not neutral, but pro-town. I find it interesting that loran uses pro-town instead of town. To this Bate responds that he a)never said loran was neutral, and b) has to check something about Estella, and loran not being estella. Bat's happy that loran hasn't claimed, and warns against loran asking more questions.
Who or what is Estella, and what's this thing about her maybe being a player?
I'm still happy to be voting loran, especially with his pro-town comment.
If you don't know anything about it I suggest you wait patiently.
I meant it as a shorthand for "a role in the game given to a player". As distinct from, for example, Mr Palanick. (Was that really not obvious?!)
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K, no idea what you're talking about.
ANYHOW, i gotta study for this test. Back later.
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OK, that's probably a good sign.
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I could be persuaded that loran was actually right all along about this guy.
I do not understand why bat feels the need to leak more information than what he already said. Estella is not a difficult reference to get.
But focus- I am still happiest with the CM wagon.
Vote: CharmMaster3125
By not putting the tenth vote on Loran, and using the "I'll go back and check run his play" cop-out, he avoided quite a giant spotlight for himself. He already had several players who have been in games with loran multiple times explaining that his play here has coincided with his scum play. Seems excessively cautious.
I don't imagine a townie is overly concerned with bringing loran to claim range there, but a scum certainly might be - especially if bateleur is right.
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(12 to lynch)
Running scared - 1 (Niv)
Kraj - 1 (AlphaInsidious)
loran16 - 5 (Wrath of DoG, Sutherlands, Billium Tate, HAWKEYE7, Kraj)
Charm_Master3125 - 6 (StormBlind, Treigit, Vampyr, Silent Prophet, Rafaelk, Disrupt Your Hymn)
carrion pigeons - 1 (bateleur)
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huh?
Everyone's saying "ZOMG Loran's scummz!!", but it looks more like opportunistic votes. I was just going to confirm from my own experiences, but before I had reached anything conclusive, Bat comes in and saves him.
FTR, his play here does resemble his play in matrix more than it does in CG. But again, Bat has bailed him out, so everyone's back to me.
Why would a scum be concerned about not leting Loran get into claim range?
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I heartily agree. I'm tempted to put my vote back on CP, but I'd be equally happy returning my vote to CM, and BT keeps looking worse. My vote will follow a reread.
Actually, I'd say it's pretty clear SP has a posting restriction and I retract my earlier FOS over it.
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I get ten posts per day. No more posts after that, or I'm modkilled. Because of this, I'm trying to save my posts; if I use them all early in the day, I'm rather stuck. Needless to say, I won't be posting particularly often, maybe once or twice a realtime week.
I really don't see Charm Master to be all that scummy. Then again, because of Bateleur's comments, and that Loran tends to play like this, I don't see Loran as likely scum either. Wasn't Charm's biggest suspicion his defense of Loran? Assuming Loran to be town, if Charm is defending him, it doesn't seem to say charm is scum to me so much as he simply found Loran not scummy, or he had some kind of information on him, like Bateleur claims to.
At this time, I find Carrion Pigeons most suspicious, because of his idiotic/fishing comment:
[/quote=carrion Pigeons]bat, I have to complain about your timing. Scummy people should be forced to claim, just on principle. Killing a bandwagon doesn't serve any purpose at all without definite, concrete information, and even then, it generally isn't a good idea.
The town isn't so stupid as to actually lynch loran 5 days into the game without something seriously more substantial than what we have, or can even likely expect from his claim, but it's worth a shot. And now you've claimed role based information that will make you a target for no good reason at all.[/quote]
Vote: Carrion Pigeons.
Vote Nom Anor
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Its a terrible role. If xyre put that into the game.....ugh.
Vote Nom Anor
BTW, im now going to take a 24 hour nap.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
For the love of little green apples...
Just because bateleur is vouching for you right now doesn't mean you should feel obligated to make horribly scummy votes.
If I understand you correctly, you're saying you believe Nom Anor's restriction claim, right?
Why on earth do you think such a role would have to be scum?
2/3s of his posts do not exhibit this restriction, which is why I said "I don't think he has to post like this". As I understand posting restrictions, they affect every post. Not just the ones where you want to cover up your lack of evidence as to why somebody's scum.
And I'm inclined to believe nom anor's claim because there have been similar roles before, sin city and elsewhere, with this restriction.
I guess that depends on your definition of the word "can." Clearly, all role information can remain hidden, but that would be a retarded game to play.
Just as clearly, you don't have information which directly clears loran, and even if you did, you should have realized that the claim of someone who has garnered no suspicion (such as yourself) should be more closely guarded than that of someone who has garnered quite a bit. Giving away role information to save someone you can't clear is chancy strategy at best.
Allow me to reiterate: I will not be voting. I haven't said anything else on the subject, nor will I.
Now, if someone can do me a favor, could they point out to me how my complaints about people revealing unnecessary info about their roles amounts to fishing?
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I was pretty sure it was sin city, but I got his and Fayul's restrictions messed up (She was limited to 10 posts and no vote on days after a night that she didn't vig someone). I agree that it's nothing to get all frantic about.
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@arimnaes: I can see a way to read loran's post to make his vote make more sense. I'll wait till he answers before saying more about it. What I find really odd is that you bypass the post two posts above when calling out someone for voting NA for stupid reasons. That is unless you have a reason to bypass and ignore Suth's scummy as hell post just above loran's in an attempt to draw more attention to loran.
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Anyhow, Unvote, vote Nom Anor.
Loran, on the other hand, was aware such a role has existed here, and appears to be using that link to implicate Nom Amor, along with suggesting he might be lying (the 'if Xyre put that role into this game...ugh' bit). There is a difference between the two posts that merits different responses.
As for your post, you seem to be calling out both arimnaes and sutherlands without making a vote - which I realize is on CM, but not even a FoS. Strange. FoS: Vampyr
Here are two important questions based on your post:
* What do you think arimnaes has to gain by trying to draw more attention to loran?
* Do you think it's remotely possible he (loran) gets lynched today?
PPE: I see WoD is making his usual garbage wagon vote. Unfortunately, this is a complete non-tell as he does it all the time.
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Frankly though, having been stuck with the most painful role I've ever been given in a game - by Xyre - (you might remember me having to post through the mod- fantastically cool idea, absolutely wrong person to give it to) I don't think there's much merit to doubt it's a possible role, especially on one post. Keep in mind, if he posts ten times and day drags on five or six real-life days beyond that and we ask for a prod - it's like RafK's claim from HS Mafia; he's going to get caught.
As it stands, they're all poor votes on Nom Amor, really, and the scenario is a bit suspect considering there's a sizable wagon rolling at the moment. Gut reaction? They feel like cop-out votes to me to avoid taking a stance on Charm Master. However, before I substantiate that, I need to go back and see what each one has said regarding him.
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I agree, but that's one of the dumbest reasons I've ever heard to vote someone. So he's basically claiming an excuse to lurk the rest of the game. If the town honestly has no better target to pressure then I'm all for voting lurkers and calling his bluff. But with plenty of options worth exploring, and absolutely no other reason to be suspicious of Nom, these two votes are ridiculous.
I have some thoughts on a couple players.
Charm Master: I agree with Silent Prophet that CM always reads scummy (in my experience) so going solely on behavioral tells isn't the best strategy with him. However, he's done some other suspicious things beyond general scumminess. He started that weird "I'm a bigger newbie" argument with Niv; it's suspicious on its own, but doubly so when in post 164 he appears to have insight into CP's play style, which would indicate experience. He wants to play the newbie card and argue based on his experience at the same time.
Additionally, he has fished for role information on several occasions (post 125 and 155 stand out) and has done so much more subtely and suspiciously than Niv's infamous post. Finally, in post 164 he finishes with an incredibly stupid comment: "Don't lynch me before I get back." As if the town is going to lynch someone before they even claim. It's almost as if he's trying to ensure he can stall for as long as possible (cuz reading other games is a great reason for being silent in another ).
I will once again support CM's wagon. Vote: Charm Master
Cyan: I'm finding Cyan rather scummy, but on the other hand I always do. He seems suspiciously overconfident and hyper-focused on Loran's wagon. He doesn't even seem to be attempting to see any other possibility except Loran is scum. He also uses repetition instead of actually responding to Loran's defense. A simplified version of their discourse:
Cyan: Loran is jumpy, which is a scum tell.
Loran: I'm always jumpy.
Cyan: You're always scum.
Loran: If you look in older games where I'm town, you'll see the same jumpiness.
Cyan: Loran is jumpy, which is how Loran acts as scum.
I've yet to hear anyone who has played with Loran as town actually say, "No, you are not jumpy as town." Cyan also is dismissive of CM's bandwagon and describes it in ways that, in my opinion, could easily fit Loran's wagon as well. (Post 177)
Carrion Pigeons: I've pretty much agreed with everything that someone else has said regarding CP's suspicious behavior so I won't reiterate. While there are reasonable explanations, CP's posts have struck me as not being as well-thought-out as I'd expect from an experienced player.
Ain't that the truth?
Seconded.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
I think this would be a good time to make an exception, don't you?
FoS: Kraj
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Maybe. I should remind you that technically, I wasn't caught. I was counterclaimed. I might have got away with it otherwise
I agree with this part more or less completely, though.
Ok, I better understand what you were thinking in doing what you did.
I've already addressed this in another game. Apparently I need to make a sign and stick it to my forehead....there...under my name.
I don't use FoS's. I see no point to them. My vote is on the person I find the scummiest. Once it's been determined that he, or anyone with my vote, isn't the play for today, then I'll move my vote.
Besides, I didn't realize asking questions was a bad thing. Which is what I was doing with arim. I wasn't calling him out. If you want to call my insinuation "calling him out" fine, but that sort of thing seems to happen often enough around here. Now, with Suth, yes, I was very much calling him out. I won't deny that one.
First off, let's make something clear. I have no idea what arimnaes has to gain by drawing more attention to loran. Which is why I asked. The reason behind the question is because I could see a scum continuing to make loran look bad, as if loran needs the help :D, in hopes to make a case on him down the line.
I do not believe that loran will be lynched today. Bat's coming out and speaking for loran seems to have warded people away from loran. Who knows if that will continue to be the case. If bat somehow turns up scum, I believe that the first person to be looked at, if he's still alive is loran.
As for the rest of your post. I wasn't concerned about who's seen what. I wasn't in Sin City, but I still read the game and recognized the similiar roles. Suth's comment comes across as scummy to me because he's gaming the mod and as a result of gaming the mod he votes for NA. To me that's the definiation of hella scummy. And after there have been multiple people claiming or exhibiting what appear to be posting restrictions.
As for loran's comment, like I said, I believe I see a way of reading his post with a vote so that it's not all that scummy. I guess because I can see that interpretation that I had a hard time seeing why arimnaes passes up Suth's horrible vote for one that doesn't seem as bad to me. Hence, my question to arim.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
As for my vote, Im voting nom anor because i dont believe xyre would put such a role in the game. Like REALLY REALLY dont believe. I don't believe the restriction makes him scum. I don't believe he has the restriction. After lurking problems in Xyre's last game, i cannot possibly conceive of Xyre putting in a role into this game that actually HAS to lurk. It's terrible modding, and i don't think xyre would do it.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
What is this Loran, a scummy post marathon? Every post you make is scummy, typically more scummy than the last. In this latest bit, not only are you *completely and utterly* gaming the Mod, but you're wanting us to lynch someone over it? The action you are attesting to him doesn't even make sense. So what, in order to cover for the fact that he was lurking(which he would have known he was doing), NA lied and made up a posting restricition that is easily proven/disproven? Why would he feel the need to do so in the first place? You are being ridiculous. You're acting exactly like you did towards Atlseal after he outed Kraj in Matrix Mafia, just in a different context. And we all know what your affiliation was there.
I understand what Bat said, but, I just can't sit by and let Loran slide. He has got to be scum. Seriously. Vote Loran
@Kraj: The case on Loran could not be any different than the 'case' on Charm. The only 'tells' Charm has given off can all be attributed to him being new. Loran has repeatedly acted in a fashion that *exactly* matches his previous actions as scum.
Easily proven/disproven if a day takes over a month. I think the odds of that happening are not so good. Unlike Rafk's role from HS, the town cant easily spam to the point where he'll have to make post 11, and as such cant really call him on it.
As for WHY NA would risk this? I can't tell you. But NA's role is preposterous. This is beyond gaming the mod.
Also, i cant talk about matrix mafia. you shouldnt talk about it. Seriously, ACTIVE GAME.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I don't know how certain bat was, or what he knows, but what I do know is that loran is very scummy, and I'd like him to at least claim his rolename. If not for his sake, than for mine.
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
Considering its a specialty game and an Az game, no i will not talk about it, and no NOBODY SHOULD.
And, no? i claim at -2. I don't give free info for curiosity.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)