Ah well, I thought I'd had fun with the role. Good job I have carrion pigeons and Cyan around to correct me concerning which games I enjoy.
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<Limited Clan>
Ah well, I thought I'd had fun with the role. Good job I have carrion pigeons and Cyan around to correct me concerning which games I enjoy.
It's fine that you had fun; I'm not saying a jester role can't be fun. But let's be honest - you weren't playing mafia. You were playing "screw with people until they get sick of you."
And frankly, you can play that anywhere, so why ruin other people's enjoyment of a game that doesn't need or want that kind of disruption?
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
You were playing "screw with people until they get sick of you."
Not at all. I mean sure, as it turns out there were people in the game who like Jesters about as much as I like dog poos. However, my aim was to get lynched on day one (because anything else carries a night one vig risk). My main means to that end was understanding how Mafia games work and are played. You might say it doesn't matter because getting lynched is trivial, but actually I failed and was forced to go to night once. I also failed in that at least once someone speculated that I might be a Jester. So really it's as much a game of Mafia as any other Neutral role.
I'm not in any way trying to argue that you or anybody else should feel obliged to enjoy playing with Jesters. My point is simply that the objections to the role are all based on a feeling that Jesters fall outside the scope of what Mafia should entail.
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<Limited Clan>
The Jester role simply warps the game perspective too much, frankly. Part of the problem is the agenda of the Jester. He has an agenda like the SK, except that in order to win, he needs to lose, which creates tons of silly situations that are impossible to analyze properly.
I mean honestly..look how much effort it took you to get lynched, Bateleur. People just don't consider 'he might be a Jester' because the role is so much nonsense.
He has an agenda like the SK, except that in order to win, he needs to lose, which creates tons of silly situations that are impossible to analyze properly.
They're not impossible for the Jester to analyze and nobody else needs to.
People just don't consider 'he might be a Jester' because the role is so much nonsense.
Nope - even if that were true it's not the reason. They don't consider it because it's never used.
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<Limited Clan>
It's never used because the role is so much nonsense. I felt it unnecessary to include that bit..obviously the role is never used.
And you're wrong about the first part. The town wins the game via logic and analysis. The Jester role creates situations that are impossible to analyze correctly.
My point is simply that the objections to the role are all based on a feeling that Jesters fall outside the scope of what Mafia should entail.
Well, that's certainly true. Let's look at what Jesters contribute to a game. Is there any strategic advantage to any side, when interacting with the Jester role at all? At best, no. At worst, yes, but only in the most negative sense that it forces people to commit to an action that can never provide any benefit, and may well end up causing harm.
Lynching the Jester is frustrating for those pushing the wagon while it's happening, frustrating for the town when he gets pointlessly lynched and revealed, and frustrating for the mafia when they have to continue a (typically) already long day in which they may have committed to stances that can hurt them later. Sticking a Jester in a game adds no value for the other players and subtracts quite a lot.
And what about the actual Jester player? He's having fun, right? Maybe, but not because of his role. Any fun he's having is because of self-imposed restrictions like "nobody can guess that I'm the Jester." Actually winning with the role is fantastically easy, just by effectively doing what Tilde did Day 1: claim to be neutral and imply you have a kill. I guarantee you will never live to see night.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Well, that's too bad. Here we were trying to do some tactical distancing, and you called us out on it. Silly us.
More seriously, it's a personality issue. Some people just don't get lynched day 1. It might have something to do with skill, but I think it probably has more to do with personality, or possibly posting frequency. When you've played with someone enough times, you start to realize that without having a good layer of groundwork first, specific people just aren't going to get lynched.
So you don't bother laying accusations early on in the first place, which is what you're noticing.
I'll even lay out for you who isn't going to get lynched today, barring an extreme coincidence, purely based on personality, and not anything that has happened in the thread:
AlphaInsidious
Vampyr
arimnaes
CM
Cyan
Sutherlands
RafaelK
HAWKEYE7
me
Disrupt Your Hymn
Treigit
bateleur
In fact, barring investigations and other role-based information, I might go so far as to say that none of those people will ever be lynched in this game. That's why roles are important.
loran and Billium Tate are also not getting lynched today, and I would tentatively add Niv to this list also. Again, I stress that none of this has anything to do with alignment. So all of you trying to make against against one of those 15, build it up and save it for later, when you have a chance to take advantage of any relevant role-based info. Day 1 is going to be all about the other 7 players.
SP
CPE
Stormblind
Nom_Anor
Kraj
chaosjuggler
Wrath_of_Dog
Now, if Raf and I can get back to our distancing? Thank you.
What was the deal with this? Was this part of your "act as scummy as possible" ploy? If this was a serious statement, were the grouping of names legitimate in your mind?
I had a moment of accomplishment in being in the first group and I wanted to find out if you were being serious with the post.
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Well, that's certainly true. Let's look at what Jesters contribute to a game. Is there any strategic advantage to any side, when interacting with the Jester role at all? At best, no. At worst, yes, but only in the most negative sense that it forces people to commit to an action that can never provide any benefit, and may well end up causing harm.
Lynching the Jester is frustrating for those pushing the wagon while it's happening, frustrating for the town when he gets pointlessly lynched and revealed, and frustrating for the mafia when they have to continue a (typically) already long day in which they may have committed to stances that can hurt them later. Sticking a Jester in a game adds no value for the other players and subtracts quite a lot.
And what about the actual Jester player? He's having fun, right? Maybe, but not because of his role. Any fun he's having is because of self-imposed restrictions like "nobody can guess that I'm the Jester." Actually winning with the role is fantastically easy, just by effectively doing what Tilde did Day 1: claim to be neutral and imply you have a kill. I guarantee you will never live to see night.
Or just claim a survivor with night kill immunity. You'll be lynched on the spot.
The point is Bate, is that you, being a great person, did what you could to get yourself lynched without being totally rediculously obvious. And you found that fun. I can't blame you. You, by choice, played the jester in the fairest way imaginable.
But another player getting that role could just claim untargetable survivor, neutral with a kill, etc etc. And in those cases, its definitely not fun and definitely stupid.
CP is correct, the Jester does not belong in most setups.
At most the jester belongs in open setups, where its existance adds another bit of game-tension to the game. Take an IRC mafia game, lyncher (with 7 players).
The game looks like this:
1 Mafia
1 Lyncher (A player who needs to get one specific townie lynched)
1 Jester
4 Townies (1 of whom is the lyncher target).
At this point, the town has to measure responses and reactions, to figure out who's the mafia (Guy not caring as long as he doesnt hit the lyncher target), who's the lyncher and his target, and who's the jester. It creates a fun tension, and the jester adds to the game.
-----------------------------------------------------
But most forum games are closed setups, and unless the game is built where a jester adds something to the game, which this one wasnt.
In this game, the jester was just an additional neutral, that was not fun for most of the players involved.
This is why im not against jesters in approved specialty games. But there better be a good reason for the Jester in the game, and he better add something. Otherwise, its better to take him out.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
What was the deal with this? Was this part of your "act as scummy as possible" ploy? If this was a serious statement, were the grouping of names legitimate in your mind?
I had a moment of accomplishment in being in the first group and I wanted to find out if you were being serious with the post.
Well, considering that, of that list, only 2 of those people were lynched..one of which was a Jester and obviously went out of his way to get lynched, the other of which was setup by the SK and the Mafia Godfather, it seems like a fairly accurate assessment to me.
Oh wait I forgot, I got lynched...but it was me vs. 2 townies that had outside confirmation, so that hardly counts.
Incidentally, Vampyr, I don't think you give yourself enough credit. You're a great player. Really, the main reason that you got lynched was Treigit..we really weren't going to talk down your role otherwise. Though honestly, targetting SB on N2 was pretty silly, as was targetting BT twice. But..good thing you did, or A)we would never have been able to get a lynch on you and B)I could never have false-claimed Cop while you were still alive.
I think the 'these people won't go down' list is probably correct, though quite sad. Newbs need to be more willing to mix it up with the experienced players, instead of just relying on them to take down each other.
I remember my first game with lots of experienced players: Star Trek Mafia. RafaelK scared the living daylights out of me.
Of course, the funny part about that game was that RafK, Azrael, fadeblue, and Puzzle (as well as myself) were all town, and we still got rolled.
I tried to get BT with the antagonistic mason bit, but it didn't work after Sutherlands let it be known that he had the same role in another game and it worked exactly like BT had described.
Ultimately, it was going to come down to trying to make a liar out of you, or, Niv. The correct choice there seems obvious to me, especially since I could at least attempt to put the lie to Niv's claim.
I think that the most ironic part is that, I could have actually been the Cop and got an Investigation on Niv(since he could be investigated), and it still wouldn't have mattered.
I remember my first game with lots of experienced players: Star Trek Mafia. RafaelK scared the living daylights out of me.
Of course, the funny part about that game was that RafK, Azrael, fadeblue, and Puzzle (as well as myself) were all town, and we still got rolled.
Ummm yeah, that was my first game as SK...and Puzzle kept outting power roles, and well...*shrug*.
I cant believe that was your first game with experienced players. For some reason i always thought you were here longer than me.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Incidentally, Vampyr, I don't think you give yourself enough credit. You're a great player. Really, the main reason that you got lynched was Treigit..we really weren't going to talk down your role otherwise. Though honestly, targetting SB on N2 was pretty silly, as was targetting BT twice. But..good thing you did, or A)we would never have been able to get a lynch on you and B)I could never have false-claimed Cop while you were still alive.
Thank you I appreciate that. I do feel as if I've made progress since my first game, but it sort of caught me by surprise that cp would list me with the group that he did. I figured I'd be in the in-between group. So, admittedly, it did give me a warm fuzzy feeling inside when cp made the list.
As far as my choice for targets, I picked SB roughly a half hour after Xyre posted the lynch scene. Then an hour after that he made the decision for it to be a no kill night. I know I went back and looked at the PM time stamps after you and DYH pushed me on it and posted the exact times, I've since deleted them, but I made the N2 choice prior to the announcement of a no kill night.
As for revisiting BT, I didn't know who to pick at that point. There was no cop or doc revealed, no roles that I could go after for sure. I'd be shooting in the dark at trying to get a scum making a kill. So I went back to BT in the off chance he didn't perform an action on N1. And after reading the night actions list, I realized that another reason to revisit him was in case he was RB'ed.
There really isn't much I can say to defend myself on the second BT choice, but the SB choice was out of my hands.
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What was the deal with this? Was this part of your "act as scummy as possible" ploy? If this was a serious statement, were the grouping of names legitimate in your mind?
I had a moment of accomplishment in being in the first group and I wanted to find out if you were being serious with the post.
Yeah, I was more or less serious. I certainly put things a little more abrasively than I would have otherwise, and used it as an excuse to dismiss opinions in a way which should have been worthy of suspicion, but the gist of the post is pretty true.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I think the 'these people won't go down' list is probably correct, though quite sad. Newbs need to be more willing to mix it up with the experienced players, instead of just relying on them to take down each other.
Issue is, when newb's DO try to take down the more experienced players, other players tend to take the side of the experienced players. So that's a totally unfair statement.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
bah, back from my suspension in time for the game to be over.:(
Good job Pod; you won the game for the town.
I don't know what I was doing at the start of the game...I was foolish and did something fun to me.
What? I'll take the side of the person who's right, not the experienced player. There's no way I'd ever rail against a newb just because he's a newb. Are you actually saying you would?
Thats not what i mean. What i mean is, the arguments of a more experienced players will be taken more seriously, then the arguments of a newb. More experienced players can get away with things that newbs cant.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Thats not what i mean. What i mean is, the arguments of a more experienced players will be taken more seriously, then the arguments of a newb. More experienced players can get away with things that newbs cant.
I suppose this is true to an extent, but I don't think it really has much to do with experience. Sure, most of the people who play this game for a while play it because they don't suck, and there's a definite issue of people knowing other people's playstyle, both of which contribute to idea of a glass ceiling for newer players, but I don't think it's real. If a player posts consistently, doesn't say (too many) stupid things, manages not to be consistently wrong, and has some observable confidence, then the times he gets lynched will drop dramatically, regardless of his experience level.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I'm not inclined to agree with this assessment that newbs can't catch a break. In Trek, I was forced to claim on Day 1, and survived for the entirety of the game. If anything, I would say that, in that game, I took advantage of the fact that people seem to write of newb mistakes as..just that...even if they are scummy actions. You just have to pay attention to what is going on around you, and you'll succeed, newb or not, scum or not.
Players with big reputations have their own problems, though. Az, for example, constantly has people riding on his coattails when he's mafia. His biggest tell is not anything he does, but what his scum buddies do in relation to him. And it's possible to be guilty of being too townie, too, when you know a lot about the setup and about how to look townie.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I think that a problem that indirectly affects new players is that people that have been around for awhile can get away with virtually anything that they want by just sticking to things that they're known for. Like, there were definitely times in this game and in TV Mafia that I acted like scum, but I got away with it because it appeared close enough to how I usually act.
And then there are players like WoD or CPE that could very easily be scum in any game, but, lurk to such a ridiculous extent in every game that they're in that they're not going to get called on it, ever.
I think that the metagame around here needs to be shaken up some, honestly..I would be highly reluctant to be a new player right now.
I think that a problem that indirectly affects new players is that people that have been around for awhile can get away with virtually anything that they want by just sticking to things that they're known for. Like, there were definitely times in this game and in TV Mafia that I acted like scum, but I got away with it because it appeared close enough to how I usually act.
And then there are players like WoD or CPE that could very easily be scum in any game, but, lurk to such a ridiculous extent in every game that they're in that they're not going to get called on it, ever.
I think that the metagame around here needs to be shaken up some, honestly..I would be highly reluctant to be a new player right now.
Meh, idk, we've had a bunch of good new players come in. Incidentally, since i've been scum now in 9 of my last 10 completed games, everyone no longer knows any town tells of mine that i can give off when i am scum. Maybe i can play better as scum, but lynch all lorans was once a joke because EVENTUALLY i was going to be scum, not that i was scum every time.
Whereas while it seemed you were scum each time early on Cyan, youve been town enough to draw a distinction where you could pull that play.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I think that the metagame around here needs to be shaken up some, honestly..I would be highly reluctant to be a new player right now.
Why would you be reluctant to be a new player now? I mean, newbies aren't going to know the meta very well. And for every heavy lurker that frequents MTGS, there's a heavy poster.
Don't get me wrong, I feel there are certain aspects of the meta that need to be addressed, the enormous amount of replacing that's been going on lately for one, but in my limited experienced eyes, it doesn't seem as if things are that terribly off now.
Besides, look at loran's signup post, 3 brand new players and 2 players moving from the newbie game into a regular game. It would seem as if there is a reasonable amount of interest for incoming players.
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Why would you be reluctant to be a new player now? I mean, newbies aren't going to know the meta very well. And for every heavy lurker that frequents MTGS, there's a heavy poster.
Don't get me wrong, I feel there are certain aspects of the meta that need to be addressed, the enormous amount of replacing that's been going on lately for one, but in my limited experienced eyes, it doesn't seem as if things are that terribly off now.
Besides, look at loran's signup post, 3 brand new players and 2 players moving from the newbie game into a regular game. It would seem as if there is a reasonable amount of interest for incoming players.
Not to mention the newbs have turned out well of late. Vamp, Dagger, Andelijah, Alx etc etc.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
its a wonder i dont go cry in a corner beacuse of how bad i suck at mafia /sarcasim
What is the point of this post?
And incidentally, I doubt you will ever get much credit, regardless of play ability, until you learn how to type a sentence. You know..with capital letters, punctuation, sentence structure, etc. Half of this game I was tempted to kill you just so I would stop having to work through figuring out what your posts were trying to say.
I'm not trying to be rude here, but seriously, do the rest of us a favor and slow down a little bit and type things out fully.
its a wonder i dont go cry in a corner beacuse of how bad i suck at mafia /sarcasim
Im sorry, its too early to see how you'll turn out. You're more new than the few i mentioned. And then as cyan mentioned there is the spelling. You know, MTGS has a spellchecker, and it's there if you need it.
I'm not saying you won't develop into a topnotch player here, i was just pointing out that recent new players have turned out well. Don't take it personally.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
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It's fine that you had fun; I'm not saying a jester role can't be fun. But let's be honest - you weren't playing mafia. You were playing "screw with people until they get sick of you."
And frankly, you can play that anywhere, so why ruin other people's enjoyment of a game that doesn't need or want that kind of disruption?
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Not at all. I mean sure, as it turns out there were people in the game who like Jesters about as much as I like dog poos. However, my aim was to get lynched on day one (because anything else carries a night one vig risk). My main means to that end was understanding how Mafia games work and are played. You might say it doesn't matter because getting lynched is trivial, but actually I failed and was forced to go to night once. I also failed in that at least once someone speculated that I might be a Jester. So really it's as much a game of Mafia as any other Neutral role.
I'm not in any way trying to argue that you or anybody else should feel obliged to enjoy playing with Jesters. My point is simply that the objections to the role are all based on a feeling that Jesters fall outside the scope of what Mafia should entail.
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I mean honestly..look how much effort it took you to get lynched, Bateleur. People just don't consider 'he might be a Jester' because the role is so much nonsense.
They're not impossible for the Jester to analyze and nobody else needs to.
Nope - even if that were true it's not the reason. They don't consider it because it's never used.
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<Limited Clan>
And you're wrong about the first part. The town wins the game via logic and analysis. The Jester role creates situations that are impossible to analyze correctly.
Well, that's certainly true. Let's look at what Jesters contribute to a game. Is there any strategic advantage to any side, when interacting with the Jester role at all? At best, no. At worst, yes, but only in the most negative sense that it forces people to commit to an action that can never provide any benefit, and may well end up causing harm.
Lynching the Jester is frustrating for those pushing the wagon while it's happening, frustrating for the town when he gets pointlessly lynched and revealed, and frustrating for the mafia when they have to continue a (typically) already long day in which they may have committed to stances that can hurt them later. Sticking a Jester in a game adds no value for the other players and subtracts quite a lot.
And what about the actual Jester player? He's having fun, right? Maybe, but not because of his role. Any fun he's having is because of self-imposed restrictions like "nobody can guess that I'm the Jester." Actually winning with the role is fantastically easy, just by effectively doing what Tilde did Day 1: claim to be neutral and imply you have a kill. I guarantee you will never live to see night.
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What was the deal with this? Was this part of your "act as scummy as possible" ploy? If this was a serious statement, were the grouping of names legitimate in your mind?
I had a moment of accomplishment in being in the first group and I wanted to find out if you were being serious with the post.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
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Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Or just claim a survivor with night kill immunity. You'll be lynched on the spot.
The point is Bate, is that you, being a great person, did what you could to get yourself lynched without being totally rediculously obvious. And you found that fun. I can't blame you. You, by choice, played the jester in the fairest way imaginable.
But another player getting that role could just claim untargetable survivor, neutral with a kill, etc etc. And in those cases, its definitely not fun and definitely stupid.
CP is correct, the Jester does not belong in most setups.
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At most the jester belongs in open setups, where its existance adds another bit of game-tension to the game. Take an IRC mafia game, lyncher (with 7 players).
The game looks like this:
1 Mafia
1 Lyncher (A player who needs to get one specific townie lynched)
1 Jester
4 Townies (1 of whom is the lyncher target).
At this point, the town has to measure responses and reactions, to figure out who's the mafia (Guy not caring as long as he doesnt hit the lyncher target), who's the lyncher and his target, and who's the jester. It creates a fun tension, and the jester adds to the game.
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But most forum games are closed setups, and unless the game is built where a jester adds something to the game, which this one wasnt.
In this game, the jester was just an additional neutral, that was not fun for most of the players involved.
This is why im not against jesters in approved specialty games. But there better be a good reason for the Jester in the game, and he better add something. Otherwise, its better to take him out.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Well, considering that, of that list, only 2 of those people were lynched..one of which was a Jester and obviously went out of his way to get lynched, the other of which was setup by the SK and the Mafia Godfather, it seems like a fairly accurate assessment to me.
Oh wait I forgot, I got lynched...but it was me vs. 2 townies that had outside confirmation, so that hardly counts.
Incidentally, Vampyr, I don't think you give yourself enough credit. You're a great player. Really, the main reason that you got lynched was Treigit..we really weren't going to talk down your role otherwise. Though honestly, targetting SB on N2 was pretty silly, as was targetting BT twice. But..good thing you did, or A)we would never have been able to get a lynch on you and B)I could never have false-claimed Cop while you were still alive.
Of course, the funny part about that game was that RafK, Azrael, fadeblue, and Puzzle (as well as myself) were all town, and we still got rolled.
Ultimately, it was going to come down to trying to make a liar out of you, or, Niv. The correct choice there seems obvious to me, especially since I could at least attempt to put the lie to Niv's claim.
I think that the most ironic part is that, I could have actually been the Cop and got an Investigation on Niv(since he could be investigated), and it still wouldn't have mattered.
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
Ummm yeah, that was my first game as SK...and Puzzle kept outting power roles, and well...*shrug*.
I cant believe that was your first game with experienced players. For some reason i always thought you were here longer than me.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Thank you I appreciate that. I do feel as if I've made progress since my first game, but it sort of caught me by surprise that cp would list me with the group that he did. I figured I'd be in the in-between group. So, admittedly, it did give me a warm fuzzy feeling inside when cp made the list.
As far as my choice for targets, I picked SB roughly a half hour after Xyre posted the lynch scene. Then an hour after that he made the decision for it to be a no kill night. I know I went back and looked at the PM time stamps after you and DYH pushed me on it and posted the exact times, I've since deleted them, but I made the N2 choice prior to the announcement of a no kill night.
As for revisiting BT, I didn't know who to pick at that point. There was no cop or doc revealed, no roles that I could go after for sure. I'd be shooting in the dark at trying to get a scum making a kill. So I went back to BT in the off chance he didn't perform an action on N1. And after reading the night actions list, I realized that another reason to revisit him was in case he was RB'ed.
There really isn't much I can say to defend myself on the second BT choice, but the SB choice was out of my hands.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Yeah, I was more or less serious. I certainly put things a little more abrasively than I would have otherwise, and used it as an excuse to dismiss opinions in a way which should have been worthy of suspicion, but the gist of the post is pretty true.
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Heh, i find it funny that we both started roughly the same time, tho i ended up disappearing for about 6-8 months during / after that game.
Issue is, when newb's DO try to take down the more experienced players, other players tend to take the side of the experienced players. So that's a totally unfair statement.
Good job Pod; you won the game for the town.
I don't know what I was doing at the start of the game...I was foolish and did something fun to me.
Thats not what i mean. What i mean is, the arguments of a more experienced players will be taken more seriously, then the arguments of a newb. More experienced players can get away with things that newbs cant.
I suppose this is true to an extent, but I don't think it really has much to do with experience. Sure, most of the people who play this game for a while play it because they don't suck, and there's a definite issue of people knowing other people's playstyle, both of which contribute to idea of a glass ceiling for newer players, but I don't think it's real. If a player posts consistently, doesn't say (too many) stupid things, manages not to be consistently wrong, and has some observable confidence, then the times he gets lynched will drop dramatically, regardless of his experience level.
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And then there are players like WoD or CPE that could very easily be scum in any game, but, lurk to such a ridiculous extent in every game that they're in that they're not going to get called on it, ever.
I think that the metagame around here needs to be shaken up some, honestly..I would be highly reluctant to be a new player right now.
Meh, idk, we've had a bunch of good new players come in. Incidentally, since i've been scum now in 9 of my last 10 completed games, everyone no longer knows any town tells of mine that i can give off when i am scum. Maybe i can play better as scum, but lynch all lorans was once a joke because EVENTUALLY i was going to be scum, not that i was scum every time.
Whereas while it seemed you were scum each time early on Cyan, youve been town enough to draw a distinction where you could pull that play.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Why would you be reluctant to be a new player now? I mean, newbies aren't going to know the meta very well. And for every heavy lurker that frequents MTGS, there's a heavy poster.
Don't get me wrong, I feel there are certain aspects of the meta that need to be addressed, the enormous amount of replacing that's been going on lately for one, but in my limited experienced eyes, it doesn't seem as if things are that terribly off now.
Besides, look at loran's signup post, 3 brand new players and 2 players moving from the newbie game into a regular game. It would seem as if there is a reasonable amount of interest for incoming players.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Not to mention the newbs have turned out well of late. Vamp, Dagger, Andelijah, Alx etc etc.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
and then there is me.
OMGISuck
its a wonder i dont go cry in a corner beacuse of how bad i suck at mafia /sarcasim
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
What is the point of this post?
And incidentally, I doubt you will ever get much credit, regardless of play ability, until you learn how to type a sentence. You know..with capital letters, punctuation, sentence structure, etc. Half of this game I was tempted to kill you just so I would stop having to work through figuring out what your posts were trying to say.
I'm not trying to be rude here, but seriously, do the rest of us a favor and slow down a little bit and type things out fully.
Im sorry, its too early to see how you'll turn out. You're more new than the few i mentioned. And then as cyan mentioned there is the spelling. You know, MTGS has a spellchecker, and it's there if you need it.
I'm not saying you won't develop into a topnotch player here, i was just pointing out that recent new players have turned out well. Don't take it personally.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity