I breadcrumbed my result in my first post. I was debating whether I should put "probably" in there or not, and ended up doing so because I only wanted my results to be obvious on my death, not for someone to figure out my role.
I'm Elliot Stabler from L&O:SVU. My PM mentions my partner Olivia, so it's possible she's in the game. So GOOD JOB cops. Way to go Jobie! Way to go Cyan! Out ANOTHER cop. Your bullheaded fanatacism has saved the day once again!
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I didn't wagon you. I random voted you. There's a HUGE difference.
You're really rediculous Cyan, you know that? You screwed over the town in DotA mafia just like you're screwing over the town here. It's VERY easy for there to be 3 cops if they're NOT SANE. And no, they weren't bad ideas.
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Wow... this is certainly an interesting game... jobie is certainly not sane if he's telling the truth. I don't think Jobie is lying, though. Claiming cop on d1 is not really a good way to do things for mafia.
I doubt he's lying because with both of you claiming there's at least 2 cops (whomever and myself), so why not 3? I also know he's not sane (obv).
How does it seem great if I'm scum? If I'm scum, Jobie gets an inspection tomorrow that says someone else is town and I die. Or... Jobie dies, comes up sane, and then I die. Except the doctor would probably protect Jobie, so we'd just get a bunch more cop inspections. What you don't seem to get is that I'M NOT SCUM. Thus, my insistence that Jobie is not sane.
Who is there to lynch? There's me, which is what you guys are suggesting, and then there's the possibility of lynching someone else. There is nothing scummy about that post, and the only other person that I would suggest lynching right now has a cop clearing him.
Why don't we nolynch? In this situation it seems like a very good idea. We have at least 2 cops whose sanity is undetermined. Tomorrow, we'll have more information and we'll be able to determine the cops sanities, all WITHOUT killing a townie.
Hmmm, at least 2 cops, I wonder who else could be one?
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Oh sorry. You random voted someone that you had, theoretically, had a town investigation on, being under the assumption that you were the only Cop in the game?
Right, that makes alot more sense. It literally could not be more obvious that you're lying.
@fade: That's not how I took his messages. It doesn't make sense to say someone is 'probably' town, and have debated not including the probably(meaning he would have just said 'Cyan is town'), if you got a scum investigation on them. And it still doesn't make any sense.
Pre-post edit: So you breadcrumbed. Congratulations. I still don't buy it.
Voting someone that you got an innocent result is not 'breadcrumbing a Cop result'. It's complete nonsense. How would voting someone else entirely 'tip your hand'? For that matter, breadcrumbing an innocent investigation on D1 also..makes no sense.
Besides, how does breadcrumbing a cop claim after 2 people have claimed Cop make more sense as town than as scum?
None of this really makes sense in accordance with you really being a Cop. Plenty of it makes sense if you're trying to fake a Cop claim, especially after someone has called out an investigation on you.
Wait... what? Why WOULDN'T I breadcrumb an innocent result? If I died in the night I wanted people to know who were clear. Voting someone in my first post really doesn't matter... it's a random vote. If I had died you don't think people would look through my posts and hopefully see that? If I had voted for someone else, the mafia would look at that and think "hmmm, he must be a cop, let's kill him" and I'd be dead.
I wasn't breadcrumbing a cop claim. I was responding according to the information I had.
fade: You know there's at least one more based on name or based on number?
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Ok, I think I see what's going on here. I believe we do have a dethy here, four cops with different sanities (normal/insane/paranoid/naive). Jobie and Cyan are two of our cops, and I'm pretty sure I know who the other two are. I can explain, but I'd rather not at this stage.
Enough to say that I firmly believe, however, that Sutherlands is NOT one of them. I think he just jumped on the cop-claim-wagon, and tried to present a random/joke vote as a breadcrumb.
There wasn't a "cop-claim-wagon"! There was 2 cops. Why would anyone think that there would be more than that unless they were a cop?! Also, how do you magically know we're playing dethy after I (supposedly false) claim but not before? That makes absolutely no sense.
fade: I was just saying if you knew that there were 4, it would help clear me, because we could have other cops come out. However, if you know a specific role is a cop, it wouldn't.
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Why does it make sense? You breadcrumb a claim that you're not sure people will believe, right? Why would a Cop ever need to breadcrumb? Breadcrumbing a role like that is, IMO, simply bad play. And Sutherlands really isn't a bad player, he's just a scum that got caught and is now flailing, IMO.
Sutherlands: Do you really think that people would pick up on you random voting someone, especially *me*(who gets random voted, typically by 2-3 people, in absolutely every game of mafia), especially given the reason that you used, as 'breadcrumbing your investigation'? Much more likely is that they'd assume that you were breadcrumbing a SCUM investigation.
Whatever, this is all ridiculous. Getting the role of Cop isn't nearly as exciting when A)anywhere from 1-3(if Sutherlands and fadeblue are to be believed) other people got the same role and B)you might not be sane.
There wasn't a "cop-claim-wagon"! There was 2 cops. Why would anyone think that there would be more than that unless they were a cop?! Also, how do you magically know we're playing dethy after I (supposedly false) claim but not before?
Who says I didn't? I strongly suspected it before (after Cyan/Jobie claimed), but only found necessary to say it now. The reason being you claimed cop, yet are not one of the players I view as (probable) cops.
fade: I was just saying if you knew that there were 4, it would help clear me, because we could have other cops come out. However, if you know a specific role is a cop, it wouldn't.
Okay, I understand the question now. Though I actually would prefer to keep my information secret at the moment - it has no effect on determining if your claim is true.
Why does it make sense? You breadcrumb a claim that you're not sure people will believe, right? Why would a Cop ever need to breadcrumb? Breadcrumbing a role like that is, IMO, simply bad play. And Sutherlands really isn't a bad player, he's just a scum that got caught and is now flailing, IMO.
Or you breadcrumb a RESULT that you want people to have if you die at night and don't get to tell them. THAT is why a cop would breadcrumb a result.
Sutherlands: Do you really think that people would pick up on you random voting someone, especially *me*(who gets random voted, typically by 2-3 people, in absolutely every game of mafia), especially given the reason that you used, as 'breadcrumbing your investigation'? Much more likely is that they'd assume that you were breadcrumbing a SCUM investigation.
Yes, I do. When I showed that I breadcrumbed it, you picked up that it was a town investigation, right? If I died night 3 and had 3 results breadcrumbed in the first post of each day, I'm pretty sure they'd get the hint.
Also, please note that if there IS one of each of the 4 supposed sanities, then the chances of Jobie's investigation being accurate are 1/3. (Can't be naive. Paranoid and insane are incorrect. Sane would be correct.)
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Rereading through the thread, I'm also a bit hesitant to accept Sutherlands' claim now. I wish he had posted between Jobie's claim and Cyan's counterclaim (as that would've been the best indicator for what he really is), but unfortunately we have to work without that.
I don't like his proposed plans to try to avert his lynch, and I'm not yet sure it's likely that he would propose those if he was also a cop.
His last post about Jobie being 1/3 accurate is also a bit suspect.
It says we don't always see eye-to-eye and that she tends to side with the accused but I'm usually not convinced, but there's no one else I'd rather have my back.
(Flavor to me also indicates that I'm not paranoid, and assuming Cyan is town that would mean I'm sane, but I didn't want to divulge that unless I had to.)
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Horatio is a homocide detective and the Psych character runs his own agency, "PSYCH." I bet if the other cop claimed (this is not a request) we would find that they are probably from a different set of crimes too. If we're looking at the characters
Quote from Psych website »
As with Monk, Psych mixes comedy with its crime and features a somewhat eccentric lead character -- Shawn, a police Psychic with absolutely no psychic abilities.
Insane
fadeblue: It's not stating the obvious, if you guys would take a second to accept that I might actually be a cop. We know I'm not paranoid. If we take the flavor, we can possibly conclude that I'm not naive. If we accept that Cyan is town, we know I'm not insane. Therefore, I must be sane.
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fadeblue: It's not stating the obvious, if you guys would take a second to accept that I might actually be a cop. We know I'm not paranoid. If we take the flavor, we can possibly conclude that I'm not naive. If we accept that Cyan is town, we know I'm not insane. Therefore, I must be sane.
It seems you're stringing together several *ifs* to try to paint yourself as a sane cop.
Well I AM a cop, and I BELIEVE myself to be sane. Given the way Cyan counter-claimed and my inspection, I find it highly unlikely that he's mafia, so the only "if" left is that the flavor shows I'm not naive. That's the only "if" that I doubt, and I don't think it's that unlikely.
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Well I AM a cop, and I BELIEVE myself to be sane. Given the way Cyan counter-claimed and my inspection, I find it highly unlikely that he's mafia, so the only "if" left is that the flavor shows I'm not naive. That's the only "if" that I doubt, and I don't think it's that unlikely.
There's also the *if* we're playing Dethy, which I don't think we are.
The other claimed cops also believe themselves to be sane, and seem to have no reason to believe otherwise. I don't think you can rule out being naive based on flavor alone.
EBWODP: And it doesn't matter if we're playing dethy. Regardless of other people's sanity, I can only be sane or naive. Dethy has nothing to do with it.
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No. But that doesn't mean it's automatically sane-insane-paranoid-naive. We also don't know that there are 4 cops (there may be fewer if someone is lying, there may be more).
EBWODP: And it doesn't matter if we're playing dethy. Regardless of other people's sanity, I can only be sane or naive. Dethy has nothing to do with it.
True, you're making your assumption based on flavor. My mistake.
In any case, we also don't know about any other potential factors, such as random sanity (not likely, but still possible), mafia manipulation of inspections, millers, godfathers, etc.
I think you're focusing too much on trying to prove your sanity before we've even determined whether you're actually a cop.
No. But that doesn't mean it's automatically sane-insane-paranoid-naive. We also don't know that there are 4 cops (there may be fewer if someone is lying, there may be more).
Like I said, I can be neither paranoid nor insane if we assume Cyan is town. If you don't think there's 4 cops (or 3) who would you think is lying?
In any case, we also don't know about any other potential factors, such as random sanity (not likely, but still possible), mafia manipulation of inspections, millers, godfathers, etc.
What do these have to do with anything? I'm obviously not a miller or a godfather (would have said so or would have come up town, respectively), random sanity factors the same as insane, shows that jobie is unreliable, and mafia manipulation of inspections? The only thing that would matter is that I've been framed, and I doubt that (though it is possible).
Like I said, I can be neither paranoid nor insane if we assume Cyan is town. If you don't think there's 4 cops (or 3) who would you think is lying?
Obviously, if I had to assume one of you is lying, it would be you as I've already stated. Not that any of you are necessarily lying. The point is that we don't know yet.
I'm making ONE assumption based on flavor, that I'm not naive. I can't be paranoid, and I can't be insane if Cyan is town.
And it's an unfounded assumption. Besides, why are you trying so hard to make the town believe you're a sane cop?
What do these have to do with anything? I'm obviously not a miller or a godfather (would have said so or would have come up town, respectively), random sanity factors the same as insane, shows that jobie is unreliable, and mafia manipulation of inspections? The only thing that would matter is that I've been framed, and I doubt that (though it is possible).
The point is that, in the big picture, you seem to be putting too much faith in the supposed cop roles. We already know this is an unusual setup, so there is no reason we should assume simply standard roles, such as sane/insane/paranoid/naive cops.
There's nothing I can say that I haven't said already that can convince you that I'm a cop.
That's why this game is about behavior and not just role claims.
Except a role claim got me into this mess and I can't even use my own role claim which is the same to get me out. 2 of the 5 people are on my wagon solely because of Jobie's inspection (or at least haven't posted to talk about it). DragonDart has been around, but hasn't decided to comment other than 1 post about another game and to vote me. And carrion pigeons only posted to say "I support Hawkeye's reasoning" and vote for me. Hawkeye is assuming Jobie is sane because Cyan got the "correct" result on him, but also at least said something about my behavior. I'd be looking at the first two at least.
Oh, and if I'm lying, there's still 3 cops according to you.
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I DON'T KNOW. I'm just talking, it's what I do. Yes, I'm grasping at straws. The town is about to kill a cop and I can't do anything about it because of a guilty investigation from another faulty cop. Also, the fact that I actually went out and did something is coming back to shoot me in the face because I don't even have a post before Cyan counterclaims Jobie.
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Sigh... this game is giving me a headache already.
Is the 4-cop setup a common variant or something? Is it anything more than speculation that we are in that situation? I think it's entirely possible that we have more or less than 4, as fadeblue has already pointed out.
I am going to unvote as I meant to before. A counter-claim from Cyan as scum seems an unlikely gambit, so I'm not going to vote him like I was planning to before this whole cop fiasco erupted.
Based on Sutherlands' flavor, it sounds very likely that he is naive:
Olivia usually sides with the victim, thus he (not seeing eye-to-eye with her) more often sides with the perpetrator... thus... he finds people innocent. But then, if Olivia really is in the game, it could be a clue Suth got in his PM that she is a paranoid cop (paranoid means they find people guilty no matter what,right? And insane means the results are exactly the opposite of reality?)
I don't think lynching a claimed cop when we still have no idea which (if any) can be trusted is the optimal play here. Instead of crossing our fingers and lynching three who have all claimed investigations of each other, I think we should look elsewhere and wait until their claims can start to be cross-referenced with the alignment of bodies.
Oh, sorry. I should have read more closely. I watch the show a lot, so I mixed up the words, assuming your flavor would match the actual character on the show... but if it's the opposite of the actual show, then nevermind on that.
There wasn't a "cop-claim-wagon"! There was 2 cops. Why would anyone think that there would be more than that unless they were a cop?! Also, how do you magically know we're playing dethy after I (supposedly false) claim but not before? That makes absolutely no sense.
Who says I didn't? I strongly suspected it before (after Cyan/Jobie claimed), but only found necessary to say it now. The reason being you claimed cop, yet are not one of the players I view as (probable) cops.
I agree.
I think the cop claim was the first real straw he grabbed at and he has been continuing to grab them since.
fade: I was just saying if you knew that there were 4, it would help clear me, because we could have other cops come out. However, if you know a specific role is a cop, it wouldn't.
Fishing and desperately so.
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I'm not voting to lynch a claimed cop today. If we are playing Dethy, one of the easier ways to figure it out will be to let our cops target some of the same players and work it out themselves.
Vote fade.
I don't think a natural town reaction to this situation is to say that one of the cops is likely lying; let's lynch the one with the weakest play!
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I'll let that one sink in for a second.
Now do they make sense?
I breadcrumbed my result in my first post. I was debating whether I should put "probably" in there or not, and ended up doing so because I only wanted my results to be obvious on my death, not for someone to figure out my role.
I'm Elliot Stabler from L&O:SVU. My PM mentions my partner Olivia, so it's possible she's in the game. So GOOD JOB cops. Way to go Jobie! Way to go Cyan! Out ANOTHER cop. Your bullheaded fanatacism has saved the day once again!
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Yes, that makes a fat lot of sense.
We didn't out another cop, you are a scum liar trying to bank off of an already confusing situation.
And don't blame this on me, or Jobie. It was your ridiculously bad ideas that got you into this situation.
There's no way the game has 3 Cops. It's mindboggling. I can't even think through the chaos and confusion that would solve.
Sorry, I just don't buy it.
You're really rediculous Cyan, you know that? You screwed over the town in DotA mafia just like you're screwing over the town here. It's VERY easy for there to be 3 cops if they're NOT SANE. And no, they weren't bad ideas.
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Sutherlands: So you got a scum result on Cyan?
Cyan, let's look at some of what I've said.
Right after someone asked Jobie if he could prove I was scum.
(Because I'm not.
Then after he comes out and you counterclaim him, I say this:
I doubt he's lying because with both of you claiming there's at least 2 cops (whomever and myself), so why not 3? I also know he's not sane (obv).
Here:
Not 2... a bunch.
Hmmm, at least 2 cops, I wonder who else could be one?
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Right, that makes alot more sense. It literally could not be more obvious that you're lying.
@fade: That's not how I took his messages. It doesn't make sense to say someone is 'probably' town, and have debated not including the probably(meaning he would have just said 'Cyan is town'), if you got a scum investigation on them. And it still doesn't make any sense.
Pre-post edit: So you breadcrumbed. Congratulations. I still don't buy it.
How would you suggest that I breadcrumb a cop result?
"Durrr, definitely not going to vote Cyan because he's town, I'll vote fadeblue instead."
Yeah, that wouldn't tip my hand.
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Besides, how does breadcrumbing a cop claim after 2 people have claimed Cop make more sense as town than as scum?
None of this really makes sense in accordance with you really being a Cop. Plenty of it makes sense if you're trying to fake a Cop claim, especially after someone has called out an investigation on you.
You are seriously flailing here.
Right now we have:
Jobie: Sutherlands scum
Sutherlands: Cyan town
Cyan: Hawkeye town
Which is great if we were playing Dethy, but I'm guessing we're not. Though I do know for a fact that there's at least one more cop claim out there.
Of the three so far, Sutherlands definitely has the weakest claim, based on timing alone. He's also played the scummiest.
Cyan: Why does breadcrumbing an innocent result make no sense?
I wasn't breadcrumbing a cop claim. I was responding according to the information I had.
fade: You know there's at least one more based on name or based on number?
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I'm not sure what you're asking.
Enough to say that I firmly believe, however, that Sutherlands is NOT one of them. I think he just jumped on the cop-claim-wagon, and tried to present a random/joke vote as a breadcrumb.
fade: I was just saying if you knew that there were 4, it would help clear me, because we could have other cops come out. However, if you know a specific role is a cop, it wouldn't.
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Sutherlands: Do you really think that people would pick up on you random voting someone, especially *me*(who gets random voted, typically by 2-3 people, in absolutely every game of mafia), especially given the reason that you used, as 'breadcrumbing your investigation'? Much more likely is that they'd assume that you were breadcrumbing a SCUM investigation.
Whatever, this is all ridiculous. Getting the role of Cop isn't nearly as exciting when A)anywhere from 1-3(if Sutherlands and fadeblue are to be believed) other people got the same role and B)you might not be sane.
DYH must be laughing his ass off right now.
Who says I didn't? I strongly suspected it before (after Cyan/Jobie claimed), but only found necessary to say it now. The reason being you claimed cop, yet are not one of the players I view as (probable) cops.
Okay, I understand the question now. Though I actually would prefer to keep my information secret at the moment - it has no effect on determining if your claim is true.
Yes, I do. When I showed that I breadcrumbed it, you picked up that it was a town investigation, right? If I died night 3 and had 3 results breadcrumbed in the first post of each day, I'm pretty sure they'd get the hint.
Also, please note that if there IS one of each of the 4 supposed sanities, then the chances of Jobie's investigation being accurate are 1/3. (Can't be naive. Paranoid and insane are incorrect. Sane would be correct.)
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I don't like his proposed plans to try to avert his lynch, and I'm not yet sure it's likely that he would propose those if he was also a cop.
His last post about Jobie being 1/3 accurate is also a bit suspect.
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(Flavor to me also indicates that I'm not paranoid, and assuming Cyan is town that would mean I'm sane, but I didn't want to divulge that unless I had to.)
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You could also be naive.
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Insane
fadeblue: It's not stating the obvious, if you guys would take a second to accept that I might actually be a cop. We know I'm not paranoid. If we take the flavor, we can possibly conclude that I'm not naive. If we accept that Cyan is town, we know I'm not insane. Therefore, I must be sane.
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It seems you're stringing together several *ifs* to try to paint yourself as a sane cop.
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There's also the *if* we're playing Dethy, which I don't think we are.
The other claimed cops also believe themselves to be sane, and seem to have no reason to believe otherwise. I don't think you can rule out being naive based on flavor alone.
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Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
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Sutherlands (5) - Jobie, Hawkeye7, DragonDart, Carrion Pigeons, Cyan
Hawkeye7 (3) - Pod, YuanTi, Alx2
Fadeblue (2) - Wuffles, RDSGD4
Cyan (1) - Sutherlands
Wuffles (1) - Fadeblue
With 12 alive, it is 7 to lynch.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
No. But that doesn't mean it's automatically sane-insane-paranoid-naive. We also don't know that there are 4 cops (there may be fewer if someone is lying, there may be more).
True, you're making your assumption based on flavor. My mistake.
In any case, we also don't know about any other potential factors, such as random sanity (not likely, but still possible), mafia manipulation of inspections, millers, godfathers, etc.
I think you're focusing too much on trying to prove your sanity before we've even determined whether you're actually a cop.
I'm making ONE assumption based on flavor, that I'm not naive. I can't be paranoid, and I can't be insane if Cyan is town.
What do these have to do with anything? I'm obviously not a miller or a godfather (would have said so or would have come up town, respectively), random sanity factors the same as insane, shows that jobie is unreliable, and mafia manipulation of inspections? The only thing that would matter is that I've been framed, and I doubt that (though it is possible).
There's nothing I can say that I haven't said already that can convince you that I'm a cop.
Alx: See above. If we assume Cyan is town (why would a scum counter-claim), I can't be insane.
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Obviously, if I had to assume one of you is lying, it would be you as I've already stated. Not that any of you are necessarily lying. The point is that we don't know yet.
And it's an unfounded assumption. Besides, why are you trying so hard to make the town believe you're a sane cop?
The point is that, in the big picture, you seem to be putting too much faith in the supposed cop roles. We already know this is an unusual setup, so there is no reason we should assume simply standard roles, such as sane/insane/paranoid/naive cops.
That's why this game is about behavior and not just role claims.
Oh, and if I'm lying, there's still 3 cops according to you.
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What's your point?
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Of course I know.
Still, it's little things like that that make it look like you're grasping at straws. Why even bring it up?
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America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
Is the 4-cop setup a common variant or something? Is it anything more than speculation that we are in that situation? I think it's entirely possible that we have more or less than 4, as fadeblue has already pointed out.
I am going to unvote as I meant to before. A counter-claim from Cyan as scum seems an unlikely gambit, so I'm not going to vote him like I was planning to before this whole cop fiasco erupted.
Based on Sutherlands' flavor, it sounds very likely that he is naive:
Olivia usually sides with the victim, thus he (not seeing eye-to-eye with her) more often sides with the perpetrator... thus... he finds people innocent. But then, if Olivia really is in the game, it could be a clue Suth got in his PM that she is a paranoid cop (paranoid means they find people guilty no matter what,right? And insane means the results are exactly the opposite of reality?)
I don't think lynching a claimed cop when we still have no idea which (if any) can be trusted is the optimal play here. Instead of crossing our fingers and lynching three who have all claimed investigations of each other, I think we should look elsewhere and wait until their claims can start to be cross-referenced with the alignment of bodies.
Why Hawkeye?
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
I agree.
I think the cop claim was the first real straw he grabbed at and he has been continuing to grab them since.
Fishing and desperately so.
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I'm not voting to lynch a claimed cop today. If we are playing Dethy, one of the easier ways to figure it out will be to let our cops target some of the same players and work it out themselves.
Vote fade.
I don't think a natural town reaction to this situation is to say that one of the cops is likely lying; let's lynch the one with the weakest play!
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I don't see the connection between these two statements.