Agreed that we must come to a consensus (though scum will be lying, even if they say "I'll vote X"...).
Alx2 is still my choice for today. As for Atlseal : I choose to believe him. That may be naive, but I don't think it worths to waste a day to check this. Mafia will of course want to make him look like scum, so we must be careful...
And... "vote counts have been temporarily disabled" : does that mean we might be able to get another vote count later today, even if we must submit our votes by PM ? What do you think ?
Wow. Now that I read the last two posts by Hawkeye7, his interactions with DYH actually make a lot more sense than before. Consider this a quasi-unvote.
I would suggest people don't PM Azrael votes at all until a consensus has been reached (to avoid a situation where the mafia can quietly quicklynch someone), but this doesn't make atl a better or worse target than before.
I'll support this course of action as of the moment.
If Hawkeye is telling the truth, that would explain a lot. But that's a rather weird ability to have (though not implausible given what we've seen in this game so far). I'm wondering whether it's a good idea to have him prove the ability.
By the way, I think people may be confused by Az's post - he mentioned that pre-existing votes were cleared, so we shouldn't need to worry at the moment about unvoting or anything at the moment.
1) arimnaes had a custom Matix-related avatar for this game;
2) the Smiths were made to use a particular avatar, and the rules now confirm that people using the Smith avatr undergo a particular effect. Hawkeye (if telling the truth) can thus forcibly "neutralize" someone with the Smith avatar. Have I mentioned how uneasy I am with how many abilities of this type are going around?
3) Spoon is using Pod's old avatar, which is relevant due to Spoon being a gimmick and Pod being in this game.
Xyre has also changed his avatar around a couple of times, but this doesn't seem to have any game relevance.
cp has started using what I think is his "Court Mafia" avatar at some point, but again, this doesn't seem to have any game relevance (feel free to correct me on this).
I would greatly appreciate NOT being vanilla'ed. At least at this point in the game. I would much rather be another target for Grak's "sooper, dooper mason maker," whenever all 9 planents and the sun line up.
As for voting, I like ZDS' idea. We can just vote as per normal and send in the vote when the time is right. Vote: atlseal.
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I finally read the entire thing. I am currently feeling better about HE than before. Now, at the very least, his cryptic actions with regards to DYH made more sense.
Also, I would like to mention that CP has been nagging me for quite some time now. His past few posts haven't exactly been inspiring to read.
I'm pretty satisfied with Hawkeye's responses there. Shall be looking elsewhere. The Loran analysis will be coming, probably in a day or so if I can swing it.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
RafK :
#1175 : RafK games the mod to put Cyan lynch back on track, following Cyan's 2 lives claim because if true, that makes them likely neutrals. Lynching neutrals now, RafK, on setup speculation after the neutral-filled Sin-City ?
I've made it quite clear subsequently that (as a result of my conclusion that he's a neutral) I don't think Cyan is a good lynch target at all. But I also think it's important to keep pointing out where he says dodgy things, because I'm sure he has an agenda and is basically untrustworthy.
As for following on Pod's vague playstyle comment, may I just say One or two other people have said that too, and not just in this game. It's following on from my own comments about my playstyle at the end of DotA (DYH directly referenced it, since he was being tongue-in-cheek). Having been lynched as town twice in a row in LYLO (Stereotype, DotA) basically because I irritated fellow townies to the point they didn't bother analyzing the scum, and Elegant being my previous town game... it was pretty clear the time had come to try and moderate myself a bit more and get back to how I used to play as town on MTGnews or my earliest games here, back when I never got lynched as town
Quote from Puzzle »
Of note : Pod and DYH both came to Cyan's rescue on day 1 (posts #1215 and #1219). Both got nightkilled.
DYH was daykilled, actually. It's probably a coincidence.
Quote from Puzzle »
And I also have this weird feeling about CP.
And I don't like the votes being hidden after I said I wanted him to pile on all he had to lynch our target today.
I think you have a very good point there, although it is not necessarily cp who's the focus of it. This is a weird time for someone to use an ability hide votes (with so many still needed to lynch, a secret mislynch is practically impossible to arrange) but it does serve the purpose of hiding a multivote, vote-stealer or person whose vote doesn't count. It could be cp's ability that's the focus, but it could also be someone unknown who the scum are keeping under wraps.
Also, who got the "cake" RB last Night anyway? Anyone? It's already been established that you don't have to be trying to use an ability to "get" this, so I don't think it gives anything away to say that you were targeted. I think it might be very useful to know later.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Mod : Given the particular set of circumstances, what happens if we are unable to reach a majority after a long, deadline-able time has passed ? Will we be given some kind of hint about who has received the most votes ?
Deadlines will be set as normal. If a majority is not reached, a no-lynch will set in. No hints at the identity of the vote leader will be provided.
I had some cake last night with a big glass of milk. It was pretty good. Too bad there isn't such yummy tasting cake in the Matrix game. Maybe everyone would stop getting sick if the cake only tasted better.
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Weak ? He claimed to be able to force a player to change his avatar. How useful that is is a mystery. How can you call it weak, or strong ?
Do you know something about it ? Unvote, Vote : Xyre
I'm saying "weak" from what I see right now. The only thing I can see it doing is making someone use the Smith avvy to not kill anyone. Which could be great in the future... maybe. Right now, I don't see it.
@Grak: sorry, giving you the answer compltely slipped my mind. According to Az's answer, my act of reformatting (dissapearing) was based off of being targeted, not being killed. So, I take this to mean that even if I was protected by either a cop or bodyguard, I still would have disappeared.
Also, no flowers.
I targeted you the same day you claimed and you didn't vanish.
I targeted you the next day and you vanished before I could find you.
Care to explain that?
Also, @ Puzzle - I've been out of town or on vacation for 13 days straight. I am just now back in a normal routine. I promise to respond to your questions tonight or tomorrow, but some of them my response will be basically "No." Because you're asking questions about my ability that should not be answered yet.
I targeted you the same day you claimed and you didn't vanish.
I targeted you the next day and you vanished before I could find you.
Care to explain that?
Also, @ Puzzle - I've been out of town or on vacation for 13 days straight. I am just now back in a normal routine. I promise to respond to your questions tonight or tomorrow, but some of them my response will be basically "No." Because you're asking questions about my ability that should not be answered yet.
Wait, what?
You targeted him the same day he claimed? That was day 1. Since when did you target him Day one? You said it would be very bad if you targeted anyone who wasn't a townie with your ability. You said you wanted to be "sure" about the Masons before you used it on ZDS. How do you target Atlseal?
I don't understand this at all. What am I missing?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
[B]I targeted you the same day you claimed and you didn't vanish.
I targeted you the next day and you vanished before I could find you.[/B]
Care to explain that?
Also, [b]@ Puzzle[b] - I've been out of town or on vacation for 13 days straight. I am just now back in a normal routine. I promise to respond to your questions tonight or tomorrow, but some of them my response will be basically "No." Because you're asking questions about my ability that should not be answered yet.
Does this indicate that you don't need the same set of specific circumstances to occur to remove atlseal's drawback that you do to remove the mason drawback?
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What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
AG :
#1206 : "seriously doubts Cyan has multiple lives".
Why ?
I thought the tone of that post made it clear that I had reasons, but I don't want to talk about them publically at that juncture.
I haven't been given cake,flowers or any present that I am aware of. I don't think anyone likes me
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Also, I would really really like to see proof of Grak's 'flashy' ability already, whether it is the one with the required set of circumstances or not. The longer this drags on, the more it is I am doubting said ability even exists.
#481 : claims because he has an ability that could confirm the masons if the second mason outs himself :
- What need of confirmation would there be for the mason in that case ?
- Why was it important to be sure of ZDS's townieness ?
1) I never claimed my ability would CONFIRM a mason.
Let's see what I ACTUALLY said in post 481.
Quote from Grakthis »
OK, I spent part of the holiday debating this... and I've decided it's worth mentioning. As Abbey and Axel can attest, my tendency is to put information in front of the town and decide as a group rather than hope things secretly align properly.
What if I were to say that my role has a way to remove the -2 vote limitation from one of the masons, IF a specific set of circumstances align and IF the mason is telling the truth about his alignment? Like, it is such that I would argue my role's ideal interaction is probably with one of these masons.
Would that change people's opinions about the plausibility of the roles existing?
What I am saying here, is I really don't want to see the masons vigged, but I do want to know for sure that they are townies.
So, as you can clearly see, CONFIRMATION was no where in there. I said my ability could remove the -2 vote limitation on one of them.
So, more lies from Puzzle. This is getting boring now.
2) Not answering that. Let's just say bad things happen for everyone involved and leave it at that. It is very important that when I am able to use my ability, I target a townie.
Quote from Puzzle »
#485 : in no rush to use the ability but doesn't want the town to knock off masons. Clarifies that by removing their drawback, they become an actual threat for scums. Although his claim was completely unnecessary, I guess I can see a townie motivation behind it, if the ability is real, which brings me to the question of why it hasn't been used yet.
I feel like I am talking to a broken record.
It hasn't been used yet because it hasn't occured yet. I don't know what you want here? Should I SPELL OUT the circumstances under which I can use it? Because, that would basically insure that I can *never* use it.
Quote from Puzzle »
#489 : "And frankly, once I use the ability, there will be no concern about my alignment. And if the target is a mason, there will be no concern about his either.". OK, so you claim to die if you use your ability or survive and be confirmed with someone else, right ? And you can use it only under certain unknown circumstances, right ? And the benefit would be to confirm a mason, right ? And it's important that you don't use it on scum : Why ?
Seriously, scum. Stop fishing.
Quote from Puzzle »
Seriously, I really want you to use that ability. You said it would confirm you, so why wait for the masons to bite it before using it ? And I can't get why using it on scum could be bad (I've got an idea but will keep it for myself right now) : I really need an explanation here.
Keep asking the same questions over and over again, puzzle... questions that have already been answered in earlier posts. That's productive.
Not only that, but you actually made a point to BUMP this post to get me to respond to it EVEN THOUGH IT WAS FULL OF QUESTIONS I'VE ALREADY ANSWERED.
I repeatedly said, way back in the posts you are discussing, that I can only use the ability under specific circumstances. If the ability is not being used *gasp* it means the circumstances have not yet occured!
Shocking, and baffling, I know. Let it sink in for a while if you need to. Take time to get caught up.
Quote from Puzzle »
Why do you think that the machines could try to kill The One ?
What? This doesn't even mean anything. Why COULDN'T they? They DID try to kill The One in the movies.
Quote from Atl »
@Grak: sorry, giving you the answer compltely slipped my mind. According to Az's answer, my act of reformatting (dissapearing) was based off of being targeted, not being killed. So, I take this to mean that even if I was protected by either a cop or bodyguard, I still would have disappeared.
Also, no flowers.
Actually, I've just realized I misread ATL's post here. I think he's saying the act of being targeted by a KILL is what triggered his vanishing, not the act of being targeted by ANYTHING.
Actually, he clarifies that later...
Quote from Atl »
In all seriousness though, I'm not claiming that at all. My system was designed to protect me from one mallicious intentioned action (read: intent to kill). In my last post, I was trying to get across that the dissapearance was the result of the kill targeting, not being killed itself.
Strangely enough, I find this claimed ability to be extremely likely. The question now is if it's a scum ability or town ability. But it makes for a fitting drawback that if he's targeted by ANY kill, even if he's protected, he immediatly vanishes and comes back vanilla. Then again, a jack that is pretty much GUARANTEED to absorb a kill is pretty broken even if he does become vanilla afterwards.
Quote from Vamp »
I would greatly appreciate NOT being vanilla'ed. At least at this point in the game. I would much rather be another target for Grak's "sooper, dooper mason maker," whenever all 9 planents and the sun line up.
it is not a mason maker ability. It does not confirm the person I use the ability on.
The person should be confirmed BEFORE I use the ability on them.
Quote from CP »
Grak has already claimed to have two abilities, people, only one of which actually depended on outside circumstances. Pay attention.
I almost posted this same kinda thing, but this game is so complicated I honestly cannot get aggrivated for people who don't pick up on me talking about my ability.
But yes, I have 2 abilities. A night and a day. The night ability is only vaguely in my control and it is the one that can "fix" a broken player if that player is town. The day ability is 100% in my control and I can use it everyday.
Quote from Puzzle »
Yes. He claimed a night one and a day one. He also said he needed to be sure about his target being town for the day one. Pay attention.
Man...this is hilarious. Puzzle tries to correct CP, and yet CP had it right and Puzzle has it wrong.
No, puzzle, the day ability can be used on anyone without any drawbacks or limitations everyday.
Quote from Puzzle »
1. Why did he target atlseal day 1 ?
2. Why didn't he target a mason on day 1 or 2 ?
3. Why hasn't he used his night ability yet ? I heard a theory about cutting trees and he doesn't seem to be following it.
Any of those questions that have not been answered in this post are not going to be answered.
I call ******** on all of this. Grak has essentially just made his claim so confusing and complicated that it's almost impossible to tell whether or not he is telling the truth. I would say that he was willfully misleading about his ability, since it seems that I remember him talking about his mason-targeting ability and saying 'it would be loud and obvious and blahblah to everyone' when he used it. I fail to see how this is at all possible in regard to a night ability.
Also fascinating is how, in order to promote his own opinion, he blatantly misreads the part where atlseal says 'any ability that targets me(and provides examples of NONKILL ABILITIES) will make me disappear(he had already stated that when he disappears, he comes back as Vanilla)'. Hell, Grak even quotes the post where atlseal says EXACTLY THIS, then clarifies it later to say exactly the same thing, which Grak somehow misreads(purposefully, most likely) again. Fascinatingly, he naysays atlseal's claimed ability(or, the weakened misunderstood Grakthis' version of it, anyway) in the same post.
Seriously, this is all ridiculous. The town should just force Grakthis to claim so that he can stop dancing around all of this and just making stuff up as he goes along. I'm fully in support of this, at least. And if he turns up scum, the way he was trying to turn atlseal's clearly claimed ability into a much more realistic ability(particularly while doubting the claim at the same time) paints an ugly picture for atlseal as well.
Is there some way we or you can help reach these "specific circumstances" ?
Not really. It's pretty much between me and the scum. The scum have to do X and I have to do Y. If those two things align, my ability triggers. Saying any more than that will allow the scum to avoid doing X.
Quote from Cyan »
I call ******** on all of this. Grak has essentially just made his claim so confusing and complicated that it's almost impossible to tell whether or not he is telling the truth.
Huh? How is my role confusing? It seems pretty simple to me. Especially if I eventually have an incentive to claim my role. Then it becomes REALLY obvious.
Quote from Cyan »
I fail to see how this is at all possible in regard to a night ability.
Clearly, since you can't think of it, it must not be true, right? Being omniscient and all... oh wa-
Quote from Cyan »
Also fascinating is how, in order to promote his own opinion, he blatantly misreads the part where atlseal says 'any ability that targets me(and provides examples of NONKILL ABILITIES) will make me disappear(he had already stated that when he disappears, he comes back as Vanilla)'. Hell, Grak even quotes the post where atlseal says EXACTLY THIS, then clarifies it later to say exactly the same thing, which Grak somehow misreads(purposefully, most likely) again. Fascinatingly, he naysays atlseal's claimed ability(or, the weakened misunderstood Grakthis' version of it, anyway) in the same post.
Plz provide links. Because the two posts I quoted up there say:
1) His vanish was triggered by being targeted
2) His vanish was triggered by someone targeting him with a kill
If he said "any ability" please show me where, so I can go back to calling ******** on him. Because I absolutly targeted him with a non-kill ability day 1 very shortly after his roleclaim. In fact, I have the response PM from Az confirming it, so I can even give you a date and time for it.
Quote from Cyan »
Seriously, this is all ridiculous. The town should just force Grakthis to claim so that he can stop dancing around all of this and just making stuff up as he goes along. I'm fully in support of this, at least. And if he turns up scum, the way he was trying to turn atlseal's clearly claimed ability into a much more realistic ability(particularly while doubting the claim at the same time) paints an ugly picture for atlseal as well.
Yeah... hay, let's make the guy who has caught scum, has come under almost 0 suspiscion, and has volunteered information about his role and how it can help the town, roleclaim the pieces of his role he's said he doesn't want revealed. That's a brilliant idea, Cyan. Why didn't *I* think of that!
it is not a mason maker ability. It does not confirm the person I use the ability on.
The person should be confirmed BEFORE I use the ability on them.
I stated it poorly and you misread my statement. I understand it doesn't make someone else into a mason. I meant it makes a mason into a super, duper mason. Therefore a "sooper, dooper mason" maker ability.
It doesn't confirm whom you use it on? I thought you mentioned it was something that would only enhance a mason. Who else would you need to use it on?
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By re-reading, it doesn't seem like guesswork so much. He says Az has clearly said it's the being targetted part that triggered all. Grak is the one who unearthed that, so I guess logic says he's less likely to be the scum. Unvote AG, vote atlseal.
He said being TARGETED is what triggered it. Then later clarifies being targeted by a KILL is what triggered it.
The 2nd post reads like a clarification of the first.
So unless Cyan can find where Atl said "targeted by ANY ability" then I don't see a contradiction here. In fact, I find that claimed distinction entirely plausible with what I know of Az as a mod.
I will have to reiterate what I've said all along, do people have some problem reading my posts or something? This is mostly directed at Cyan and Puzzle who seem to have missed my correction post. I've already explained that I can see how the wording might have been confusing. Especially as how when I typed "cop", it should have been "doc" (see the word "protecting" which makes no sense in the cop context).
Let's just restate things again:
I disappeared because I was targetted with a malicious intentioned action. Thus, a doc/bodyguard-type of ability would have done nothing to stop it.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
#2435 :I read that as the disappearance being based off of being targetted, not being killed. And you ?
Yes.
Which means "being targeted by a kill, not having the kill succeed."
i.e. even if the kill fails, the ability still occurs. His phrasing makes sense. It's not as clear as it should have been, but it fits what he later clarified it to mean and he made the clarification BEFORE I said that I targeted him day 1.
Now that it's clarified, the ability seems even less likely. If he disappeared upon being targeted by anything, that would make some sense. But he only disappears when targeted by abilities that only the mafia would target him with? And conveniently, he left this bit out when he initially claimed..AND he has the '-2 to lynch' drawback?
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
i.e. even if the kill fails, the ability still occurs. His phrasing makes sense. It's not as clear as it should have been, but it fits what he later clarified it to mean and he made the clarification BEFORE I said that I targeted him day 1.
It's the timing of the clarification that might save him, then- if he had only said it after you said you claimed to have used an ability on him, I would vote him on the spot.
I think I'll finish my look through HE7's posts.
HE7: In the meantime, something I already referred to in my last post and I see Puzzle just referred to then... what was the "816KAZ" breadcrumb about?
It's the timing of the clarification that might save him, then- if he had only said it after you said you claimed to have used an ability on him, I would vote him on the spot.
I think I'll finish my look through HE7's posts.
HE7: In the meantime, something I already referred to in my last post and I see Puzzle just referred to then... what was the "816KAZ" breadcrumb about?
I'm mildly starting to wonder if Cyan has to kill everybody else in the game, but just not me. Sort of the ultimate protector.
Anyway, I've got several pages of notes on Loran-stuff now. Sadly, it does not appear that anyone can affirmatively be pegged as scum due to interactions with him. I do feel better about several people though - at least to the point where I could say I do not think they were on the same side as Loran. Those people are Wizpig (now J-Effe IV); Xyre; ZDS; Atlseal; Alx2; Charm Master (now Puzzle, but I have one serious reservation here).
As far as I can tell, these are all the living people Loran ever voted for:
There might have been some other votes, but I don't have notes for anything. Of these, the ones against Xyre, ZDS and Atlseal read to me as votes where Loran was definitely interested in pursuing a lynch or getting information. The votes against Carrion Pigeons and Grakthis were weak votes to begin with and not pursued at all. These would not be points in favor of Grakthis or CP.
Loran also had a couple of weak FOSs and IGMYOYs, which are certainly not points in favor of those people who got them.
Question for atlseal, however: Why were you using the Smith Avatar at the end of the day yesterday?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Meh. I guess Grak's clarification is fine enough for now.
I just have this feeling about his early interaction with Loran16 but I must admit his answer here is good enough.
For my defense, I challenge anyone to take up a game of 2200+ posts. And I had sworn never to replace because of memories of 600+ games...
Anyway, unvote, vote AG.
It is no small task, replacing in a game like this.
I have also come to think a bit more about HE7's claim : as far as I can see, HE7's ability could be used to make someone look like Agent Smith and generate a bad lynch but I'm beginning to wonder what upside it could have for the town, particularly if people were free to use any avatar (cf DYH using a Smith avatar).
And what is 816KAZ ?
I’m sure there is at least one and possible several players who can say what the upside to my ability is. Unfortunately, right now I’m not one of them. I simply do not know enough about what other avatar related abilities there are out there.
Kraj, Fadeblue and DYH were the direction I was looking in to find out more about the benefits and drawbacks to avatar changing.
What is 816KAZ?
That’s an odd question to ask.
Did you google it?
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RELAPSED MAFIA JUNKIE
W – 33, L – 19, Broke Games - 9
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
It is no small task, replacing in a game like this.
I’m sure there is at least one and possible several players who can say what the upside to my ability is. Unfortunately, right now I’m not one of them. I simply do not know enough about what other avatar related abilities there are out there.
Kraj, Fadeblue and DYH were the direction I was looking in to find out more about the benefits and drawbacks to avatar changing.
What is 816KAZ?
That’s an odd question to ask.
Did you google it?
Look about half way down the page
I don't know what to think of a Truman claim quite honestly. The ability seems more like it would be useful to scum, and flavor-wise I could see Truman being scum if we already know that The Kid is scum.
I am still more interested in pursuing atlseal today so for ZDS' purposes vote: atlseal although no PM to Az yet.
(1) not likely to be day-killer, evidenced by fact that daykiller apparently tried to kill him. Unless he was allowed to fake a kill attempt on himself which is wrong for all kinds of reasons.
(2) not likely to be allied with Loran, for reasons of their interactions.
So if he's not the daykiller (who is almost certainly this games SK), and he's not scum with Loran, then what is he?
The people voting him appear to be doing so because they don't like his claim. Think it's too convenient/too powerful/too something. Or they just don't like the way he string-claimed. Now, I can see those points, I really can, but what is your conclusion, folks? You can't just say "I don't like the claim - Vote Atlseal." What do you think he is? Do you think he's the SK, despite being shot at? Do you think he's Mafia and he and Loran were just doing this very impressive distancing thing the entire time? Do you agree he isn't likely to be allied with Loran, but you are so much convinced of his scumminess otherwise that you feel he simply must be some other kind of (unclearly identified) scum?
I think everyone voting him needs to be very clear on their reasons. I don't like the claim either, and it does make me uneasy, but logically, I just don't see him being Mafia or SK.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Here is me, probably missing things that have already been explained, but didn't it come out that Alx targeted Grakthis? And Grakthis was targeted by Cake that made him hide?
That's what I'm vaguely remembering.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
(1) not likely to be day-killer, evidenced by fact that daykiller apparently tried to kill him. Unless he was allowed to fake a kill attempt on himself which is wrong for all kinds of reasons.
(2) not likely to be allied with Loran, for reasons of their interactions.
So if he's not the daykiller (who is almost certainly this games SK), and he's not scum with Loran, then what is he?
The people voting him appear to be doing so because they don't like his claim. Think it's too convenient/too powerful/too something. Or they just don't like the way he string-claimed. Now, I can see those points, I really can, but what is your conclusion, folks? You can't just say "I don't like the claim - Vote Atlseal." What do you think he is? Do you think he's the SK, despite being shot at? Do you think he's Mafia and he and Loran were just doing this very impressive distancing thing the entire time? Do you agree he isn't likely to be allied with Loran, but you are so much convinced of his scumminess otherwise that you feel he simply must be some other kind of (unclearly identified) scum?
I think everyone voting him needs to be very clear on their reasons. I don't like the claim either, and it does make me uneasy, but logically, I just don't see him being Mafia or SK.
Exactly.
Like, I don't like Cyan's claim either. But I am in the same boat... I don't see what he (and by extension, you) could be, if not townies. I just don't know on what basis I could accuse him of being scum.
Puzzle is starting to make more sense now that he's actually reading the thread. The more he reads, the more he seems to distance himself from his intial goofy conclusions. That seems pretty "normal" but I am still baffled by why he jumped to conclusions before he finished getting caught up. Like, litterally, half the stuff he was throwing at me was answered already once he kept reading. So while I still don't trust him, he's probably not the right lynch.
Here is me, probably missing things that have already been explained, but didn't it come out that Alx targeted Grakthis? And Grakthis was targeted by Cake that made him hide?
That's what I'm vaguely remembering.
Yes. That is correct as I remember it.
Alx tried to target me with something, but the cake (which we are calling a roleblock right now) caused me to hide in the bathroom, and apparently caused his ability to fail.
Who was it that said they were actively roleblocked by the cake?
Alx tried to target me with something, but the cake (which we are calling a roleblock right now) caused me to hide in the bathroom, and apparently caused his ability to fail.
Who was it that said they were actively roleblocked by the cake?
I think Xyre claimed that.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
And last guess, we were saying that the cake was probably the Marovingian (sp?) and that it was probably scum aligned due to the choice of targets (targeting me right after I claimed a useful night ability and then targeting Xyre after he claimed a quasi investigation ability).
#1534 : for context : #1585 : differentI don't think that flavour was a role-block. It sounds more like untargettability and it looks similar to what Hvir described. I suspect Hvir was unknowingly untargettable with a similar flavour, which would make an untargettable suspicious here.
On top of that come two 2-life players.
I'd like to know who Alx2 targetted on night 1.
I already said it was Grakthis; and he was apparently made untargetable by the cake-thing. We sorted it out at the end of day 2.
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There are no sane people, only misdiagnozed ones.
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Alx2 is still my choice for today. As for Atlseal : I choose to believe him. That may be naive, but I don't think it worths to waste a day to check this. Mafia will of course want to make him look like scum, so we must be careful...
And... "vote counts have been temporarily disabled" : does that mean we might be able to get another vote count later today, even if we must submit our votes by PM ? What do you think ?
Why not an actual unvote then?
I'll support this course of action as of the moment.
Will post more after work.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
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By the way, I think people may be confused by Az's post - he mentioned that pre-existing votes were cleared, so we shouldn't need to worry at the moment about unvoting or anything at the moment.
1) arimnaes had a custom Matix-related avatar for this game;
2) the Smiths were made to use a particular avatar, and the rules now confirm that people using the Smith avatr undergo a particular effect. Hawkeye (if telling the truth) can thus forcibly "neutralize" someone with the Smith avatar. Have I mentioned how uneasy I am with how many abilities of this type are going around?
3) Spoon is using Pod's old avatar, which is relevant due to Spoon being a gimmick and Pod being in this game.
Xyre has also changed his avatar around a couple of times, but this doesn't seem to have any game relevance.
cp has started using what I think is his "Court Mafia" avatar at some point, but again, this doesn't seem to have any game relevance (feel free to correct me on this).
You mean regarding Vampyr? Well, there's not much to it - I simply didn't see a reason to try, given the information at the time.
As for voting, I like ZDS' idea. We can just vote as per normal and send in the vote when the time is right. Vote: atlseal.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Also, I would like to mention that CP has been nagging me for quite some time now. His past few posts haven't exactly been inspiring to read.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
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NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Because, duh ...
God, I feel so dumb... >_<
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
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Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
I've made it quite clear subsequently that (as a result of my conclusion that he's a neutral) I don't think Cyan is a good lynch target at all. But I also think it's important to keep pointing out where he says dodgy things, because I'm sure he has an agenda and is basically untrustworthy.
As for following on Pod's vague playstyle comment, may I just say
DYH was daykilled, actually. It's probably a coincidence.
I think you have a very good point there, although it is not necessarily cp who's the focus of it. This is a weird time for someone to use an ability hide votes (with so many still needed to lynch, a secret mislynch is practically impossible to arrange) but it does serve the purpose of hiding a multivote, vote-stealer or person whose vote doesn't count. It could be cp's ability that's the focus, but it could also be someone unknown who the scum are keeping under wraps.
Deadlines will be set as normal. If a majority is not reached, a no-lynch will set in. No hints at the identity of the vote leader will be provided.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I'm saying "weak" from what I see right now. The only thing I can see it doing is making someone use the Smith avvy to not kill anyone. Which could be great in the future... maybe. Right now, I don't see it.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I targeted you the same day you claimed and you didn't vanish.
I targeted you the next day and you vanished before I could find you.
Care to explain that?
Also, @ Puzzle - I've been out of town or on vacation for 13 days straight. I am just now back in a normal routine. I promise to respond to your questions tonight or tomorrow, but some of them my response will be basically "No." Because you're asking questions about my ability that should not be answered yet.
Wait, what?
You targeted him the same day he claimed? That was day 1. Since when did you target him Day one? You said it would be very bad if you targeted anyone who wasn't a townie with your ability. You said you wanted to be "sure" about the Masons before you used it on ZDS. How do you target Atlseal?
I don't understand this at all. What am I missing?
Does this indicate that you don't need the same set of specific circumstances to occur to remove atlseal's drawback that you do to remove the mason drawback?
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
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I thought the tone of that post made it clear that I had reasons, but I don't want to talk about them publically at that juncture.
I haven't been given cake,flowers or any present that I am aware of. I don't think anyone likes me
Someone ought to sig that, considering just how true it probably is.:p
Anyway, I've lost track. Has anyone received flowers besides Axel? Has anyone not claimed?
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
Also, I would really really like to see proof of Grak's 'flashy' ability already, whether it is the one with the required set of circumstances or not. The longer this drags on, the more it is I am doubting said ability even exists.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
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Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
1) I never claimed my ability would CONFIRM a mason.
Let's see what I ACTUALLY said in post 481.
So, as you can clearly see, CONFIRMATION was no where in there. I said my ability could remove the -2 vote limitation on one of them.
So, more lies from Puzzle. This is getting boring now.
2) Not answering that. Let's just say bad things happen for everyone involved and leave it at that. It is very important that when I am able to use my ability, I target a townie.
I feel like I am talking to a broken record.
It hasn't been used yet because it hasn't occured yet. I don't know what you want here? Should I SPELL OUT the circumstances under which I can use it? Because, that would basically insure that I can *never* use it.
Seriously, scum. Stop fishing.
Keep asking the same questions over and over again, puzzle... questions that have already been answered in earlier posts. That's productive.
Not only that, but you actually made a point to BUMP this post to get me to respond to it EVEN THOUGH IT WAS FULL OF QUESTIONS I'VE ALREADY ANSWERED.
I repeatedly said, way back in the posts you are discussing, that I can only use the ability under specific circumstances. If the ability is not being used *gasp* it means the circumstances have not yet occured!
Shocking, and baffling, I know. Let it sink in for a while if you need to. Take time to get caught up.
What? This doesn't even mean anything. Why COULDN'T they? They DID try to kill The One in the movies.
Actually, I've just realized I misread ATL's post here. I think he's saying the act of being targeted by a KILL is what triggered his vanishing, not the act of being targeted by ANYTHING.
Actually, he clarifies that later...
Strangely enough, I find this claimed ability to be extremely likely. The question now is if it's a scum ability or town ability. But it makes for a fitting drawback that if he's targeted by ANY kill, even if he's protected, he immediatly vanishes and comes back vanilla. Then again, a jack that is pretty much GUARANTEED to absorb a kill is pretty broken even if he does become vanilla afterwards.
it is not a mason maker ability. It does not confirm the person I use the ability on.
The person should be confirmed BEFORE I use the ability on them.
I almost posted this same kinda thing, but this game is so complicated I honestly cannot get aggrivated for people who don't pick up on me talking about my ability.
But yes, I have 2 abilities. A night and a day. The night ability is only vaguely in my control and it is the one that can "fix" a broken player if that player is town. The day ability is 100% in my control and I can use it everyday.
Man...this is hilarious. Puzzle tries to correct CP, and yet CP had it right and Puzzle has it wrong.
No, puzzle, the day ability can be used on anyone without any drawbacks or limitations everyday.
Any of those questions that have not been answered in this post are not going to be answered.
Also fascinating is how, in order to promote his own opinion, he blatantly misreads the part where atlseal says 'any ability that targets me(and provides examples of NONKILL ABILITIES) will make me disappear(he had already stated that when he disappears, he comes back as Vanilla)'. Hell, Grak even quotes the post where atlseal says EXACTLY THIS, then clarifies it later to say exactly the same thing, which Grak somehow misreads(purposefully, most likely) again. Fascinatingly, he naysays atlseal's claimed ability(or, the weakened misunderstood Grakthis' version of it, anyway) in the same post.
Seriously, this is all ridiculous. The town should just force Grakthis to claim so that he can stop dancing around all of this and just making stuff up as he goes along. I'm fully in support of this, at least. And if he turns up scum, the way he was trying to turn atlseal's clearly claimed ability into a much more realistic ability(particularly while doubting the claim at the same time) paints an ugly picture for atlseal as well.
Not really. It's pretty much between me and the scum. The scum have to do X and I have to do Y. If those two things align, my ability triggers. Saying any more than that will allow the scum to avoid doing X.
Huh? How is my role confusing? It seems pretty simple to me. Especially if I eventually have an incentive to claim my role. Then it becomes REALLY obvious.
Clearly, since you can't think of it, it must not be true, right? Being omniscient and all... oh wa-
Plz provide links. Because the two posts I quoted up there say:
1) His vanish was triggered by being targeted
2) His vanish was triggered by someone targeting him with a kill
If he said "any ability" please show me where, so I can go back to calling ******** on him. Because I absolutly targeted him with a non-kill ability day 1 very shortly after his roleclaim. In fact, I have the response PM from Az confirming it, so I can even give you a date and time for it.
Yeah... hay, let's make the guy who has caught scum, has come under almost 0 suspiscion, and has volunteered information about his role and how it can help the town, roleclaim the pieces of his role he's said he doesn't want revealed. That's a brilliant idea, Cyan. Why didn't *I* think of that!
Oh... wait... I know why. It's a bad idea.
I stated it poorly and you misread my statement. I understand it doesn't make someone else into a mason. I meant it makes a mason into a super, duper mason. Therefore a "sooper, dooper mason" maker ability.
It doesn't confirm whom you use it on? I thought you mentioned it was something that would only enhance a mason. Who else would you need to use it on?
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
He said being TARGETED is what triggered it. Then later clarifies being targeted by a KILL is what triggered it.
The 2nd post reads like a clarification of the first.
So unless Cyan can find where Atl said "targeted by ANY ability" then I don't see a contradiction here. In fact, I find that claimed distinction entirely plausible with what I know of Az as a mod.
Let's just restate things again:
I disappeared because I was targetted with a malicious intentioned action. Thus, a doc/bodyguard-type of ability would have done nothing to stop it.
Yes.
Which means "being targeted by a kill, not having the kill succeed."
i.e. even if the kill fails, the ability still occurs. His phrasing makes sense. It's not as clear as it should have been, but it fits what he later clarified it to mean and he made the clarification BEFORE I said that I targeted him day 1.
I call shenanigans.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
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Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
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It's the timing of the clarification that might save him, then- if he had only said it after you said you claimed to have used an ability on him, I would vote him on the spot.
I think I'll finish my look through HE7's posts.
HE7: In the meantime, something I already referred to in my last post and I see Puzzle just referred to then... what was the "816KAZ" breadcrumb about?
To quote:
Also, I don't see you mention anything about HE and his code in either your last post or the previous one.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Anyway, I've got several pages of notes on Loran-stuff now. Sadly, it does not appear that anyone can affirmatively be pegged as scum due to interactions with him. I do feel better about several people though - at least to the point where I could say I do not think they were on the same side as Loran. Those people are Wizpig (now J-Effe IV); Xyre; ZDS; Atlseal; Alx2; Charm Master (now Puzzle, but I have one serious reservation here).
As far as I can tell, these are all the living people Loran ever voted for:
#35: Xyre (unvotes in #88)
#158: Xyre again
#200: Carrion Pigeons (unvotes in #222)
#275: Grakthis
#310: ZDS (unvotes #317 - Mason claim)
#625: atlseal (unvote #682)
#1517: atlseal (unvote #1593)
There might have been some other votes, but I don't have notes for anything. Of these, the ones against Xyre, ZDS and Atlseal read to me as votes where Loran was definitely interested in pursuing a lynch or getting information. The votes against Carrion Pigeons and Grakthis were weak votes to begin with and not pursued at all. These would not be points in favor of Grakthis or CP.
Loran also had a couple of weak FOSs and IGMYOYs, which are certainly not points in favor of those people who got them.
Question for atlseal, however: Why were you using the Smith Avatar at the end of the day yesterday?
Times change. HE7 has now claimed, and that's when one calls back on breadcrumbs.
It's the obvious breadcrumb I referred to (and linked to) in my semi-PBPA of Hawkeye on the previous page.
I’m sure there is at least one and possible several players who can say what the upside to my ability is. Unfortunately, right now I’m not one of them. I simply do not know enough about what other avatar related abilities there are out there.
Kraj, Fadeblue and DYH were the direction I was looking in to find out more about the benefits and drawbacks to avatar changing.
What is 816KAZ?
That’s an odd question to ask.
Did you google it?
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
Look about half way down the page
I don't know what to think of a Truman claim quite honestly. The ability seems more like it would be useful to scum, and flavor-wise I could see Truman being scum if we already know that The Kid is scum.
I am still more interested in pursuing atlseal today so for ZDS' purposes vote: atlseal although no PM to Az yet.
Let me make this part very clear: I find it extremely plausible that his disappear ability is exactly as he claimed it.
Now, that doesn't make him town, but DO NOT vote for him on the basis that you think he's lying about THAT ability.
If you think he's lying about his JOAT abilities, then I guess that's a different issue. But he DID prove out that SOMEONE investigated Kraj.
1. His initial play on day 1 is very sketchy. This is well agreed upon seeing as it led to his claim.
2. The -2 to lynch part of his claim is kluncky, inelegant, and otherwise suspicious. I hate it.
I'm not entirely convinced of his scuminess based on these two points alone, but I can't see anyone better.
So I'm less convinced than I was earlier, but I still think he'd be a good lynch. Consider this a vote atlseal.
(1) not likely to be day-killer, evidenced by fact that daykiller apparently tried to kill him. Unless he was allowed to fake a kill attempt on himself which is wrong for all kinds of reasons.
(2) not likely to be allied with Loran, for reasons of their interactions.
So if he's not the daykiller (who is almost certainly this games SK), and he's not scum with Loran, then what is he?
The people voting him appear to be doing so because they don't like his claim. Think it's too convenient/too powerful/too something. Or they just don't like the way he string-claimed. Now, I can see those points, I really can, but what is your conclusion, folks? You can't just say "I don't like the claim - Vote Atlseal." What do you think he is? Do you think he's the SK, despite being shot at? Do you think he's Mafia and he and Loran were just doing this very impressive distancing thing the entire time? Do you agree he isn't likely to be allied with Loran, but you are so much convinced of his scumminess otherwise that you feel he simply must be some other kind of (unclearly identified) scum?
I think everyone voting him needs to be very clear on their reasons. I don't like the claim either, and it does make me uneasy, but logically, I just don't see him being Mafia or SK.
That's what I'm vaguely remembering.
Exactly.
Like, I don't like Cyan's claim either. But I am in the same boat... I don't see what he (and by extension, you) could be, if not townies. I just don't know on what basis I could accuse him of being scum.
Puzzle is starting to make more sense now that he's actually reading the thread. The more he reads, the more he seems to distance himself from his intial goofy conclusions. That seems pretty "normal" but I am still baffled by why he jumped to conclusions before he finished getting caught up. Like, litterally, half the stuff he was throwing at me was answered already once he kept reading. So while I still don't trust him, he's probably not the right lynch.
I am back to leaning towards Dagger as my vote.
Yes. That is correct as I remember it.
Alx tried to target me with something, but the cake (which we are calling a roleblock right now) caused me to hide in the bathroom, and apparently caused his ability to fail.
Who was it that said they were actively roleblocked by the cake?
I think Xyre claimed that.
Sounds right.
And last guess, we were saying that the cake was probably the Marovingian (sp?) and that it was probably scum aligned due to the choice of targets (targeting me right after I claimed a useful night ability and then targeting Xyre after he claimed a quasi investigation ability).
I already said it was Grakthis; and he was apparently made untargetable by the cake-thing. We sorted it out at the end of day 2.